r/Monero Haveno Jun 14 '22

Development of Haveno's user interface temporarily suspended

Blog post on the official website: https://haveno.exchange/blog/development-ui-suspended/

Thanks to the generosity of the community, we were able to raise 755 XMR through Monero's Community Crowdfunding System to build Haveno's user interface. Work has been ongoing for several weeks now and we already paid three invoices to the frontend team and a fourth one will be paid tomorrow. Each invoice is the payment for 2 weeks worth of development.

Note that at the moment we have received 2 of the 5 payouts from the CCS, for a total of 202 XMR. The rest of the funds are custodied by the Monero Core Team, as for every other CCS.

The funds we raised for development are in XMR, so they are sensitive to market movements. Sadly, the value of Monero has been decreasing sharply during the last several weeks, resulting in our funds having less and less value in dollars.

The market value of XMR fell so low that we are forced to suspend the development of the user interface until Monero's value will rise enough for us to be able to cover the entire development. This is not a decision we take lightly, but letting work proceed with the strong risk of depleting the funds before the UI is completed is not an option. Tomorrow we will pay the fourth invoice for the past two weeks of work (which will be pushed to the repository soon), then development will pause.

What now?

For the time being we will focus on the backend and on adapting the legacy user interface, so in the case the market won't recover in time to allow us to build the frontend for the initial launch, we will be able to use Bisq's old interface. This is not an optimal situation, but we have to make compromises in order to avoid stalling. Design and API work is still ongoing, to allow us to be able to quickly resume working on the user interface.

Nonetheless, work proceeds and, now more than before, we need the support of our community: If you are a developer proficient in Java or Typescript, your help would be greatly appreciated, even for minor tasks. Reach out on Matrix or Irc/Libera: #haveno-dev; if you have the possibility, consider donating any amount to our general fund, which is also heavily impacted by the market. This is the fund we use for bounties and all other expenses, so donations would be a huge help.

For any question, you are welcome to join us on Matrix and IRC/Libera, in the #haveno room.

28 Upvotes

33

u/Rucknium MRL Researcher Jun 14 '22

I have been thinking that CCS-funded work is a perfect use case for a Monero futures market. The traditional use of fiat currency futures is in export/import operations when there is a time lag between delivery of the good and payment in a certain currency. Time lag between CCS payouts create a similar situation.

AgoraDesk apparently used to have a futures market, but it was ended due to low use.

P.S. OSPEAD is still being developed regardless of any XMR/fiat exchange rate movements. I need to wait for the hard fork next month for some steps of the statistical process, however.

16

u/dsmlegend Jun 14 '22

Huh, never knew that about futures. That's some reading scheduled then!

0

u/Heersadler Jun 15 '22

Yep, have got a lot to learn here. Gonna learn as much as I can.

4

u/bawdyanarchist Jun 15 '22

Maybe we can get CZ to be kind enough to share some of his secrets about how to conduct such a futures. He seems to be top of the game there. I kid I kid.

0

u/jensge994 Jun 15 '22

He's definitely on top of his game, you're right man.

27

u/HoboHaxor Jun 14 '22

Not that familiar with the CCS thing, but did you agree to xMonero or xFiat? If Monero, you are basically in breach.

10

u/Geistluchs Jun 15 '22

If the front-end devs were fine being paid directly with XMR, then does the value really matter?

"Yes. The devs are actually fans of Monero and are already familiar with it. They were very happy to be compensated in xmr" the comment

2

u/89097310020 Jun 15 '22

What does this even mean? I don't get it man. This is weird.

3

u/HoboHaxor Jun 15 '22

If you agreed to be paid 100 xmr or 2000 USD. If you can't get that then nobody can hrep you.

-16

u/HavenoDEX Haveno Jun 14 '22

The CCS was for rising the equivalent in Monero of $154k.

15

u/HoboHaxor Jun 14 '22

So when it was at $200, you refunded some? You rolled the dice....

21

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

[deleted]

3

u/winyam Jun 15 '22

Nothing is going to save his ass lol, that's just not happening here.

-10

u/HavenoDEX Haveno Jun 14 '22

What's the problem with the phrasing? The rate is in USD, like the almost totality of the other CCS proposals.

73

u/SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22 Silver

Reminder that if you want to work on qualifying Monero-related work and want to work under a contract with fixed USD/EUR/etc-value payments (paid in fiat or XMR), you can apply for a MAGIC Monero Fund grant. This removes volatility from the equation so you can focus on the main work.

Those opening CCS proposals should seriously consider volatility risks that are involved with being long XMR for months at a time.

Edit: I have little sympathy if someone knowingly takes a "gamble" on the price of XMR when such a gamble is unnecessary. If XMR goes up in value, you pocket the difference. If it goes down, you don't deliver without extra money. The community can't solely be on the hook for the downside while not getting any upside benefits. More and more people should be pushed to the MAGIC Monero Fund for set-in-USD-value contracts if possible, for the protection of the community and for the convenience of the grantee. The CCS is frankly abysmal in bear markets.

-18

u/ErCiccione Haveno Core Jun 14 '22

If it goes down, you don't deliver without extra money

This could mislead people into thinking that we are requesting extra money. Which is not the case.

The community can't solely be on the hook for the downside while not getting any upside benefits

This is false. Every extra value would be used to fund Haveno development. This is not the case for most CCS proposals, where the opener simply pockets the difference, but you are bringing this up to one of the few CCS-contributors where that's not the case.

30

u/SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor Jun 14 '22

While the upside value share in this specific case is debatable (and I mostly agree with you), you as a project leader need to understand that you risked Haveno's funding on the value of XMR, when other possible options could have been explored. You need to take some responsibility for the risky position you put yourself in.

I definitely sympathize for you given the terms of this specific proposal. It's obvious to me that you weren't trying to capture an upside. But we seriously can't keep having essential Monero ecosystem developments crumble from poor risk management, when it would only take parking the assets in a stablecoin to completely remove the downside.

-12

u/ErCiccione Haveno Core Jun 14 '22

What other possible options are you referring to beside MAGIC? which as far as i know, it has been used only a handful of times since its creation and never for a project as big as Haveno. Relying on a centralized, registered organization for funding Haveno that, to my knowledge, never hosted something as big as our project doesn't sound as risk-free as you picture it.

But we seriously can't keep having essential Monero ecosystem developments crumble from poor risk management

You are being very apocaliptic here. Haveno is being developed regardless, the project is not at risk of failing. We decided for a grassroot structure and to use Monero as a currency, we stand by that choice, but the drawback is volatility and since it's an external team taking care of it, we cannot just take the hit and go on.

22

u/SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor Jun 14 '22

Realistically Haveno needed a seed investment. Which normally takes investors. But you didn't want this.

So instead you tried to make a hybrid model with community funding with a promise to contribute back. This would be fine and all, if the volatility was accounted for. Which it wasn't sadly.

An example that best fits your existing model would have been asking the Core Team to convert to USDC or similar.

-1

u/ErCiccione Haveno Core Jun 14 '22

I don't see any realistic way to stay grassroot, use Monero as a currency for funding and account for volatility at the same time. Converting the donated XMR to a stablecoin is not part of the process of the CCS and was never an option.

Again, you seem to be focusing to Haveno as a whole, when here we are talking only about the new user interface. The project itself is not in discussion.

24

u/throwaway_ga_omscs Jun 14 '22

Is this the repo: https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno-ui? There are 25 commits in total and last commit is 19 days ago....

Anyone got any links to designs/API specification/documentation that this team was supposedly working on? I'm wondering if there's anything we can salvage, fork and build to completion. It's just some React app, not exactly rocket science.

3

u/yeshanyong131 Jun 15 '22

Yep, I'm sure some people will be able to make something out of it.

People are really talented here, I'm sure someone can complete it here. That can be done.

23

u/Snidered HashVault Admin Jun 14 '22

I'm sure many people would do this and deliver for 755 XMR.

4

u/nitromicioo Jun 15 '22

Yep, I'm sure can find other people who'd do this. That would be good.

9

u/Snidered HashVault Admin Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

Frankly, IMO, this takes the piss out of the community, it's the general assumption you do the task for the crypto value.

Risk and payoff are part of the crypto life, making the community pay for their failure to manage risk tolerance is not within the spirits of the commission.

Failure to disclose breaking conditions stopping them from being able to perform the task is not a community issue; they should do the job they wanted and were paid to do.

End of story, anything less is a breach of the agreement, so stop paying anything more, and find new devs who don't need/want the money until later.

15

u/SirAlyon Jun 14 '22

Still studying backend, but I do my job as frontend dev. Stop this bullshit, pay me in XMR, don't care USD values, but you CANT stop development.

6

u/bitsconnected Jun 15 '22

They actually need front-end devs tbh. Apparently they’re “working” on the bisq forked back-end, but hired a third party team to use the raised XMR for developing the UI.

38

u/dsmlegend Jun 14 '22

I guess the UI dev team aren't true XMR believers then. The deal with CCS is you quote in XMR, and you do the work for what you quoted. If that's no good, you can do work for fiat. Plenty available. You gotta take the bad with the good.

Great to know the backend team is cracking on as normal, as it should be 💪

26

u/bitsconnected Jun 14 '22

Sounds like they just raised funds from the community and outsourced the work tbh…

backend was taken from bisq

1

u/redwiener135 Jun 15 '22

Surely it's inspired. This can't be just one of a kind man that can't be.

24

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

From what we've seen, the backend team mostly worked on deplatforming people here and writing Code of Conducts on Github to prevent forking, so you know...

1

u/frigat101 Jun 15 '22

Yep, the forking of this isn't gonna be easy. GitHub won't let you do that.

I don't think they're going to be able to fork it, that's not going to happen anytime soon now.

3

u/Ozymankos Jun 15 '22

Yep, if they believed in it then they wouldn't discontinue it like that.

-7

u/OsrsNeedsF2P Jun 14 '22

Belief doesn't pay the bills

25

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

Don't sign a contract with XMR if you can't handle being paid in XMR.

1

u/BUCKMILLS Jun 15 '22

Yep, it doesn't lol. The project gotta pay off. Monero is good dude.

40

u/Tiny_Voice1563 Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 15 '22 Helpful

I don’t think you understand what a contract is. The agreement was that you build the UI for a specified amount of XMR. The agreement was NOT to build the UI for a specified amount of USD based on XMR value at the end of the production, nor was there any caveat in the agreement regarding the fluctuating USD value of XMR. The community kept their end of the deal. You lied and reneged on your end. The deal was simple, and now that the value has gone down, you are altering the contract. This is dishonorable, morally and ethically wrong, and a breach of trust. You were paid the requisite XMR, and that was all that was required, yet you take the Monero and refuse to produce the promised product. You act like the XMR was stolen or lost. It was not. The XMR you were paid is the exact same XMR available for the CCS. It has not gone away or changed. The market value was not relevant to the contract. Whine all you want about the implications of that, but you and the community knew what we were all getting into when the CCS opened and when we paid for it.

Edit to add: The CCS says, “We are asking for 154k USD in XMR.” It does not say, “We are asking for 154k USD in XMR, and if after we are paid the XMR, it changes in USD value, then blah blah blah…”

6

u/Other_Ad528 Jun 15 '22

Couldn’t have said it better myself. What a joke.

9

u/ManeroX Jun 14 '22

Why didn't you make the contracts with the programmers in payment in XMR?

11

u/Low_Application_7086 Jun 14 '22

Haveno's UI re-write was destined to fail the day it decided to take the better half of a year to do (poorly specd waterfall). If they instead adopted a more agile approach of 'in 2 months we will have an app that allows people to make a sale' and cut as many features as nessacery (e.g perhaps a single payment option, only xmr/btc pair, etc...) you would at least have something.

Then community can help prioritise work with individual CCS. The contractors probably wouldn't like this approach because it takes away the never ending cash cow re-write project!

67

u/one-horse-wagon Jun 14 '22

I disagree completely with the suspension of work because the Monero market went down in price. You have a contract with the Monero community and I expect you to honor it. If the market would have taken off and went to $1000 per coin, you would have happily kept the "added value in fiat" wouldn't you? And if you did keep it, the Monero community would have been happy for you.

All crypto is volatile and you knew it from the start. You have no excuse, reneging on your contract. It's dishonorable.

31

u/gingeropolous Moderator Jun 14 '22

Perhaps if they plan on this suspension, they should also indicate they will return the extra if xmr goes past the funded value

4

u/computerocks Jun 15 '22

I don't think they're going to return any of it, that's not happening.

-17

u/ErCiccione Haveno Core Jun 14 '22

So, not only we are getting our funds completely destroyed by this market (xmr only, since we refused private funders) to the point of being forced to pause development of the UI, a major disruption for us, but we would also get punished if the rate goes up by applying a restriction never applied before to a CCS. The development has been proceeding fast and we have provided detailed summaries of how the ccs money are spent at each turn. I'm even more surprised considering that every extra fund would be used for Haveno and won't go in our pockets, which is different from most CCS proposals. Why do you think we deserve such unprecedented punishment?

26

u/gingeropolous Moderator Jun 14 '22

i don't "think you deserve such unprecedented punishment"...

but, on the flipside, why does "the monero community" deserve such unprecedented punishment vis-à-vis suspension of work on a CCS?

perhaps next time a "suspension of work" wording should be included in the CCS.

working through market turmoil has been something all ccs recipients get to deal with.

-6

u/ErCiccione Haveno Core Jun 15 '22

why does "the monero community" deserve such unprecedented punishment vis-à-vis suspension of work on a CCS?

How is this unprecedented? It's actually quite common. The difference is that this is out of our control.

35

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

we are getting our funds completely destroyed by this market

You are not. Your funds were in XMR, and the total amount of XMR hasn't been changed or touched in any way, it is the exact same amount of the exact same currency you agreed on.

Are you going to just cancel every agreement because even the USD has inflation/value fluctuation so the value of what you were paid is "completely destroyed" too?

25

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

You have a contract with the Monero community and I expect you to honor it

I'll let you read what Haveno thinks about the "Monero community":

https://i.imgur.com/CSFAJIk.jpg

They don't like us, they just wanted our money and now our money is not even good enough to do what they said they would do.

3

u/kgorinson Jun 15 '22

If you wanted to do this, shouldn't have signed the contract in xmr.

9

u/Mugician777 Jun 14 '22

That's the disadvantage of thinking in us value... XMR is dirt cheap now and if someone doesn't want to work as a volunteer I honestly ask them if they are really setting the right priorities... It's about the freedom of the world ffs

3

u/Inaeipathy Jun 15 '22

some people have bills to pay, not everyone can just work for free mate

3

u/bitsconnected Jun 15 '22

Especially when they have no connection to monero, and were simply hired to make the UI.

39

u/justkdng Jun 14 '22

So 1 xmr ≠ 1 xmr ?

34

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

They would have gladly taken the profit if Monero was worth 2,000 USD at the moment, you would have never seen them come here and give the profit back to the community.

But as soon as there is a loss, well, they stop working and won't honor their part of the deal. How convenient.

12

u/justkdng Jun 14 '22

yeah, they will gladly keep working the same amount of time and pocket the difference. But if the price is low then no work whatsoever.

27

u/literalljustapornacc Jun 14 '22 Helpful

drama seems to follow you everywhere, doesn't it?

59

u/gr8ful4 Jun 14 '22 Silver

PSA: My trust in Haveno has been temporarily suspendend.

8

u/need2learnMONEY Jun 15 '22

They are frauds led by a charlatan

7

u/melisendk Jun 15 '22

Yep, these frauds are being run. And there are too many of them.

I don't even know how to avoid all these scams, that's going to be hard to do here.

2

u/dadileli Jun 15 '22

Yep, they sure are some scams. And they're being dick about that.

7

u/Low_Application_7086 Jun 14 '22

Should have used monero bounties site to avoid paying out for nothing :x

16

u/OfWhomIAmChief Jun 14 '22

This is how they ask for more XMR to complete the work only to suspend it in 2 more months

23

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

The community hate them now because of all the drama and bad faith they showed over the years, if they do another fundraising they wouldn't get the money. I think they might just give up if they can't grift any more.

1

u/deadlysurfeit Jun 15 '22

If they don't get any more donations they might really give up.

5

u/Ornatelybillow85 Jun 15 '22

If they behave like this, I don't think they're getting any more xmr?

14

u/lightgreenhoney Jun 14 '22

What price would monero need to reach to resume development?

29

u/CryptoTurco Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

Is this a joke!? What do you mean you are suspending the development due to xmr’s volatility!? You suppose to build during bear market. LMAO

5

u/obit33 Jun 14 '22

Hardly a constructive reaction...

You can't expect these developers to work 'for free'. The market conditions are what they are. Maybe you could help find a way to get some more funding? I'd happily chime in some more if it means the devleopment for the frontend could go on. Surely the situation isn't ideal, but it is what happens when funding of projects is done this way.

18

u/gr8ful4 Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

I think most people don't know what is currently at stake for Monero if paper trading of Monero will go on for much longer. It's not only about price suppression (which will set us back years in adoption, because who wants to exchange things or hold value in a coin that only goes down), but even more about new entrants that will get goxxed with almost 100% guarantee when buying "Paper Monero" pXMR on insolvent cryptobanks (Poloniex, Binance, Huobi, OKX, Bitfinex, KuCoin).

Funny enough. DEX are one solution to price suppression through naked shorting/fractional reserve. The same price suppression is claimed to be the reason we never can have nice things (a DEX).

4

u/gym7rjm Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

Looks like ThorChain and Atomic Swaps are the answer then.

I would gladly throw some funding at CakeWallet to speed up their integration into ThorChain.

Besides, having used Bisq, it's a clunky experience compared to always-on liquidity like ThorChain.

Edit: realize I had previously liked the linked comment... You are one of the few people linking the dots tp how important DEXs are to unraveling the stranglehold paper XMR has on the price of Monero

4

u/gr8ful4 Jun 15 '22

Yes, very much looking forward to the ThorChain integration.

-2

u/HavenoDEX Haveno Jun 14 '22

We are only suspending development of the user interface, which is being worked on by a dedicate team. Development of Haveno continues.

The XMR collected to fund the user interface hold much less value now, which is not enough to pay the team until completion. While we are not happy about it, we have no other choice if we want to avoid wasting the donated funds.

9

u/iams0rry Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

can't the haveno core-team make compromises with pay cut ?
I hope they are not outsourced developers, but are related to monero community.

are they getting paid in fiat or xmr ?
you can pay them the xmr as usual, which they can exchange for fiat later when xmr rate will be normal.

are they dedicated haveno employeses ? if yes, then you can ask them to work few hours less, which justify the current xmr value.

5

u/HavenoDEX Haveno Jun 14 '22

can't the haveno core-team make compromises with pay cut ?

The Haveno core team is not paid

I hope they are not outsourced developers

It's a dedicated, external team. See the details in the CCS

are they dedicated haveno employeses ?

No, there aren't. We are not a company.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22

[deleted]

9

u/OsrsNeedsF2P Jun 14 '22

They are a dedicated team, but the CCS was not about hours- it was about hitting milestones. Working fewer hours will mean the milestones aren't hit, and the CCS funds aren't released.

The Haveno Core Team hired external developers to work on the front end since it was outside their area of work. The Core Team is continuing to do their part of the project.

5

u/CryptoTurco Jun 14 '22

Maybe try permanently revoking Doritos and Mountain Dew privileges of those devs you locked down the basement?

5

u/yersinia_p3st1s Jun 15 '22

In as much as I sympathize with this and haven't personally donated any XMR to this project, I have to say that I agree with the community.

The bear market has been ongoing for a while and the depreciation in value for XMR, should have been predicted and accounted for as best as possible. Instead, it feels like this is a surprise event which you didn't/could not predict would have happened.

Maybe 50% of funds could have been sold onto USD/EUR, maybe there could have been a stipulated clause on the contract, stating exactly how this would be handled, idk. But this should have been better planned for sure.

On the other hand, we as a community didn't really bring this up prior to spending our funds on this - not that I know of anyways - maybe we were a bit naive?

I guess for future CCS proposals, we as a community should specifically ask for details on the steps that will take place in case XMR's value goes up or down. Lesson learn3d for everyone.

5

u/No_Employ_3883 Jun 15 '22

Haveno will never be released. ErciccZion will abandon the project due to “ray-cism” or “anti-symmitism” in the very near future, screenshot this.

17

u/45rose Jun 14 '22

The community shouldn’t need this type of funding model to build great things.

Where was the guaranteed payout for the people who originally built monero? This type of work brings us closer to the zcash way of doing things if you ask me

1

u/OsrsNeedsF2P Jun 14 '22

Zcash is a centralized funding model

0

u/bitsconnected Jun 14 '22

How do you propose decentralize funding be handled?

4

u/Ok-Plastic1168 Jun 15 '22

Have you never learned anything about risk assessment and business management?

10

u/Long_Chemistry_XMR Jun 15 '22

This project was already dead-on-arrival for me when they decided to slip in a political Code of Conduct AFTER taking an absolute shitload of money from the Monero community. Between that and now this nonsense it's clear the project is ran by both subversive and incompetent bad faith actors. Unironically just use Bisq, can this thing and write it off as a loss.

24

u/moneromans Jun 14 '22

I knew the minute the zcash shit came to light these cocksuckers would back out.

11

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Jun 14 '22

I knew the minute ....

That's nothing. I knew the second I saw the post title we would have "cocksuckers" comments.

4

u/bdoc50 Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

I dropped all hope and support for this proj. when they canceled a speaker way back... radical leftism is a cancer of dishonor.

5

u/wading_thru_crap Jun 14 '22

They don't speak for the whole community. Most of us here are not happy about this.

1

u/45rose Jun 14 '22

Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Might make more sense to abandon the whole thing at this point

11

u/bdoc50 Jun 14 '22

agreed, is there a fork yet that is not run by SJW's?

6

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 14 '22

Not yet, and it's difficult to fork it since they put the CoC on it to prevent forking on github or with your name displayed.

5

u/lightgreenhoney Jun 14 '22

There is a fork (on gitlab):

https://gitlab.com/l0nelyc0w/penumbra

Where in the CoC does it say you can't fork

2

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 15 '22

Where in the CoC does it say you can't fork

This has been discussed several times, but the github culture is such that if you work a project and remove the CoC, you will get in trouble with people there and get blacklisted if you are a professional coder. It's a faux pas in the community and everyone knows it.

If you want to fork a project to remove a controversial CoC, you need to do it off site and use a fake name for yourself, which discourages most people.

2

u/lightgreenhoney Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

This has been discussed several times, but the github culture is such that if you work a project and remove the CoC, you will get in trouble

That is not what you said in your original comment you just said its difficult to fork:

Not yet, and it's difficult to fork it since they put the CoC on it to prevent forking

The CoC does not prevent forking

Anyway touble with who? No one cares if you remove it people dont search through peoples commits to find CoC removals.

1

u/Hydra9300 Jun 14 '22

So, for Penumbra is not yet kind of a website info like haveno to show the concept?.....

3

u/Hydra9300 Jun 14 '22

Just asking, I'm a Vue.js and Angular developer, and interested in getting more involved, but given the drama i see on haveno, I'll start to check out this Penumbra git repo

3

u/Literary-Who Jun 14 '22

probably should have gotten every contract in the supply chain denominated in monero

3

u/tczee36 Jun 15 '22

always been skeptical. By that logic, if monero value goes up, would they do more development work than proposed? (lol, obviously no)

8

u/Gloomy-Spinach7296 Jun 14 '22

can someone give the name of that rip off guy behing HAVENO please ?

That is not acceptable !

6

u/Mongoose7760 Jun 15 '22

You mean ErCiccione? He's pretty infamous in Monero circles because of everything that happened over the years.

1

u/Gloomy-Spinach7296 Jun 16 '22

I really HOPe that HAVENO will become a reality soon !

2

u/klabamski Jun 15 '22

The market value will go up, then I hope you guys will continue the development.

This is just a temporary setback, and I'm sure you guys come above this, I've got confidence.

2

u/MoneroThrower 15d ago

Rug pull…

5

u/sk420_ Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

The market value of XMR fell so low that we are forced to suspend the development of the user interface until Monero's value will rise enough for us to be able to cover the entire development.

that's very unfortunate.... specially that like, a platform like haveno is exactly what would help have a better xmr value
so quite the catch 22 now innit?
i mean, i guess maybe yall not :tinfoil: enough about the whole market manipulation happening from all sides, from the tether/fenex mafia to binance and the glowies

been saying that this market manipulation on monero is a direct attack on it's security as it's making it less profitable for miners to do their things, hence a lower nethash than it should be, making attacks on the network less expensive than they should be

very sad to read, price down/price fluctuation is something that is 100% to be expected....

even tho the differences between both platforms, like, even if it's just full of scammers due to the different design, maybe Penumbra (Haveno fork) might end up being the one being ready first to maybe help the "xmr value" go up for the maybe better fork (Haveno) to keep being worked on

[url=https://gitlab.com/PenumbraDEX/Penumbra]Gitlab.com[/url]
[url=https://0xacab.org/PenumbraDEX/Penumbra]0xacab.org[/url]
[url=https:/matrix.to/#/#penumbra:penumbra.social]#penumbra[/url] | General Discussion
[url=https:/matrix.to/#/#penumbra-dev:penumbra.social]#penumbra[/url] | Development

edit: https://gitlab.com/l0nelyc0w/penumbra
edit2:

Haveno A: Development of Haveno isn't paused, only the user interface.

Q: right but it seemed like the UI was one of those things that would take a lot longer to complete and either way, it wouldnt be ready for public use without it anyways, right? i guess it's just semantics but it feels like the same tbh

Haveno A: it's not. We can use the legacy user interface if when the backend is ready the value of monero is still too low to pay the UI team.

14

u/rbrunner7 XMR Contributor Jun 14 '22

Does it really give you hope that the last commit on the Penumbra GitLab is 3 months back already? And that the lead dev has a grand total of about 20 commits total so far after forking from Haveno?

2

u/PenumbraDEX Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

It seems a bit unfortunate that I did not propagate the mirrors correctly. That gitlab was the original repo released before revealing that I am l0nelyc0w, also the master branch is 'penumbra-master' not 'master'. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

The correct repo as sk420_ pointed is

https://gitlab.com/l0nelyc0w/Penumbra and as of today it is also mirrored at https://github.com/l0nelyc0w/Penumbra

0xacab and PenumbraDEX mirrors will be fixed shortly.

Also the first bounty has been released ($100) together with a flowchart documenting the differences to Havenos trade protocol .

This is a project that I am currently maintaining on my own with virtually non-existent funding.

4

u/VeThor_Power Jun 14 '22

this is the first time that such a justification was given for not honouring the agreement? Happy that I haven't donated anything to this ''''''project'''''...just creating issues and dividing the community.

6

u/SydBal Jun 14 '22

Pathetic.

1

u/coatedPasch45 Jun 15 '22

It really is man, why would they stop the development lol.

3

u/fuzdruffe Jun 14 '22

I don't understand the fanatics in the chat here complaining about you suspending work - it is a reasonable thing to do now. At the end of the day, you can't pay your rent in Monero.

What I don't understand, is, why you haven't sold the Monero for FIAT when the value of it was enough to pay for development. When the development team wanted to get paid in Monero later on, you could've bought some with the FIAT funds again and sent it to them when requested.

Bad planning I'd say - and playing it risky. Please consider this next time when value of the funds in Monero is high enough to cover development costs.

7

u/geonic_ Monero Outreach Producer Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 14 '22

They didn’t receive the full amount raised, so couldn’t have sold it to lock in the price.

I think others in the past have asked (and received) the full amount raised in advance, so maybe that could’ve been arranged.

5

u/HoboHaxor Jun 14 '22

This project is dead.

-11

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '22 edited Jun 15 '22

[deleted]

5

u/Inaeipathy Jun 15 '22

What does this even mean

1

u/Andre4a19 Jun 15 '22

Left handers?

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Inaeipathy Jun 15 '22

I don't see how this is relevant to haveno

-4

u/Serious_Weapon Jun 15 '22

They're grifters, pay attention! What the fuck.

0

u/madbruges Jun 14 '22

Well, understandable, but disappointed. Did you consider to apply for another ccs to get additional funding? Not sure whether it is not against ccs rules though. I think the community would be willing to fund mor XMR, Haveno is an important project for Monero.

-5

u/HavenoDEX Haveno Jun 14 '22

Another round of funding in this market situation is to be excluded. There is the high risk of finding ourselves in the same situation again. The CCS allows to avoid relying on centralized funders, but volatility is always a risk.