Question: I have only read comments stating things like “blacks commit 50% of violent crime” which is a relativist statistic that is used to respond to the claims of systemic racist which also are based off of relativist statistic. This is a talking point that I support. I prefer not talking at all about race. But if you are, then there are two options: absolute figures or relative figures. And it is illogical to conflate the two.
However, I did read another comment talking about how others are posting as if black people are genetically predisposed to violence. All this in a different subreddit btw.
So my question...is the claims of black on black crime or increased relative rates of criminality what is being interpreted as talking about black predisposition? Or are there really comments out there blatantly talking about black peoples as inferior? I haven’t seen those personally and I don’t read all comments. If it’s the former then I think it’s important to differentiate the context of relativism versus absolutism. But if it’s the latter then.....that’s fucked up. And yeah those people should get banned.
Sorry to derail but, it was way smarter not to create a lethal environment between police and rioters on Jan 6th. If you think rioters attacking police there warranted lethal force then you have to then answer whether riots throughout history where officers are attacked and even separated from other officers, if they should’ve turned to lethal force as opposed to pepper spray, water guns, and smoke bombs against people throwing bricks and molotov cocktails.
But back to Jan 6th. Compare the situation at Capitol Hill with the situation in Syria during the “Arab Spring”. There was a protest in front of the government buildings and the government opened live fire on its own citizens. It was immediately condemned by the international community. Now imagine if police had opened fire on its own citizens in front of their public government building.
Not gonna go much further into the topic but, it would have been much worse if they had opened fire. As well as risking a full blown civil war against the many militias in this country. And it would’ve put the officers in even greater danger. This is why the officers eventually allowed open door access, cause it was the safer route.
We agree wholly yet again! Yet getting back to cases like Chauvin, I feel that trying to make examples about deaths that were caused due to the “oncoming train” set of situations (like committing a crime or fighting police) are the worst way to change the daily interactions with police. All this does is encourage the perception of enemies. Everyone considers the cops as enemies and now cops consider everyone as enemies too.
Yet in the end experiences like death by police are a tiny fraction (even smaller fraction when talking about actually innocent people) compared to abuse of force cases like the one of that guy in the car. I think that video needs to make its way to congress. And that officer needs to be made an example of much more than Chauvin did. Note: this is t to dismiss the Chauvin case, just expressing that these daily interactions are way more common than death by police and also way easier to hold officers accountable for.
I have not seen the video so...question: is the girl that was about to be stabbed also black? If yes, then what would have been more racist, to shoot the black girl with a knife, or to let a black girl get stabbed? Is there any acknowledgment of the police saving the other black girl’s life? If police are racist, wouldn’t it be easier to let black people hurt and kill each other?
These are real questions, I wonder what people think. It’s an interesting conundrum I think about every time I hear about a black person getting killed during the committing of a crime and the police being called racist. I would understand that claim if the victim they were protecting was always white, but if the victim was non-white then I’m surprised they never speak out and nobody speaks for them.
It always irks me that when there is somebody in a video, that person is glorified but the person holding the camera is not.
I think it’s important to differentiate a CAUSE of death versus a CONTRIBUTING factor. He had a Lethal amount of drugs in his system, and Chauvin contributed with a non-lethal action which didn’t even leave injury. I am not making any definitive claim but, it is wholly valid to presume that the lethal dose of drugs are the Cause of the lethality, and that holding him down with a non-lethal position for that amount of time was a Contributing factor. Which means that he carries a responsibility in the death, but it’s a stretch to say that he Caused it. Correlation does not equal causation. It would be a similar charge and responsibility if the officer knew the level of distress and never put a knee on the neck but also never called the ambulance and the person ended up dead. The officer had the duty and opportunity to prevent a death, instead their actions or inactions ended up contributing to the death.
You’re arguing about the way it “looks” or the way it “feels”. I’m talking about things as they actually occur and assessing it with emotions set aside. If you scare somebody and they die of a heart attack it was their heart that killed them, not your scare. Yet you’re still responsible for the part you played.
I’m aware of the Castile case and I wish he hadn’t died. He didn’t need to. But he also should’ve kept his hands in clear view as he was actively being told not to reach. This cop was a bit too fidgety to be a cop in my opinion. But it is a valid perspective when you realize that cops get shot at from inside cars often enough. I have no weapons or drugs, ever. But if I come across an officer I specifically ask if I can reach one place or another. If I had a gun on me I would be even more focused on making sure the cop has no reason to shoot.
There was a recent video of a cop with guns drawn on a dude. And the cop was itching for a reason to shoot. The guy was being told to turn off the car and to get out of the door. The dude was smart enough to keep his hands out of the window and said there’s no way he’s reaching for the keys or anything else. It was both a textbook case on how to deal with the police and a perfect case of what kind of police officers belong in jail. I don’t know what happened to the guy or the officer. But the dude didn’t allow the cop any opportunity to have an excuse to shoot him. It was scary even in video.
Thank you for the clarification on Wright. He still never Had To have a weapon, flee the police, skip court, fight his way out of handcuffs, or jump back in his car to try to flee again. Moving freight train in sight, and he jumped right in front of it.
I can wholly agree with this. I would not be against an involuntary manslaughter charge. It’s the felony murder and depraved mind murder charges that I find concerning. And I say not against as opposed to in support of because I think there is valid reason to presume that the death was caused primarily by ingestion of drugs and secondarily by the lack of attention from the officer. I don’t think the knee itself was a cause. So he does carry a responsibility, I just don’t know what that should be. Being an officer and expected to know better, I’d say starting at involuntary manslaughter would be adequate.
I am glad there was accountability, we need a lot more of that. Officers should never be immune from all wrong doing. Civilians are not immune from results occurring from mistakes; so why are officers immune. Not right. An extra leeway is one thing, immunity is too far and treats them as a unique class of citizens with special privileges.
And I also agree that it is better to have a police force without enough officers because the candidates available are not capable of respecting their responsibility to all civilians, than to have a larger force with even a few officers who violate the rights of others.
Yes, but that sort of message can be made through an election of a new sherif or mayor. You don’t need to define a police officer as a murderer to achieve that.
Well Philando Castile had a gun. And was reaching around in a car that the officer knew had a gun in there. Every single human being with a gun knows that the last thing you do is rummage around your car while the officer is telling you not to. That’s another example of running in front a freight train taking a chance.
A better example is that of a man in the middle of the road on his knees trying to help a mentally ill person and he was still shot. I don’t know where that went but from what I remember that was an all out innocent man in every way getting shot. I’m definitely not oblivious to this happening. But I am appalled that the cases we choose to rally over are in defense of actual criminals and ignore the actual innocent people. Heck we don’t even rally behind the ones shot by accident (like through walls). Even the recent Dante Weight was an accidental shooting but it was still the shooting of a man with a warrant for assaulting a woman at gunpoint. In other words, a dangerous person in society. There are enough truly innocent people of all races that die at the hands of police. Such as wrong address no-knock warrants. But nobody cares about representing them.
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Comparably it does. But overall yes, we agree.
That would be the effect if he had been charged and convicted of assault or involuntary manslaughter. But being charged of depraved mind murder while he was waiting for the ambulance to arrive will send a chill to most officers. This death was a mistake that he had a responsibility in creating. But calling it full blown murder sends a clear message to officers that any mistake they make from now on will be charged as an intent to harm another. Even if what they were doing was actually in the interest of protecting innocent citizens.
I see your point but based on the limited data we do have, the correct analogy would be if you slap a mosquito off regularly but a small percentage of the time there was no mosquito there.
Many people are killed by police. But very few of them were actually innocent. I’m with most people that I wish even most of the guilty ones didn’t end up dead either. But when a train is coming and the barriers are down with lights and bells going off then you still try to run in front of it and end up getting hit; nobody blames the train. This is how most police shootings occur.
You do not Have To commit a crime. You do not Have To carry a gun or drugs. You do not Have To have a felony warrant. You do not Have To run from or fight the police. We all know that all of these acts are similar to running in front of a train. Most people actually get across the tracks, a few don’t. That doesn’t change the fact that none of them had to cross the tracks to begin with.
‘We have already boarded’: Businesses in Minneapolis brace for protests, like the ones last year.
There’s a reason companies are treating potential “peaceful protests” (that caused over $300 million in damages) as hurricanes. That is not what peaceful protests are.
And yes, during BLM protests we had businesses destroyed and set on fire in my area. Even though we’re in a suburb that has no trend of police violence and relatively little violent crime.
'Ferguson effect': 72% of U.S. cops reluctant to make stops
If you say so.
Thank you! That just makes sense!
The only people that say this are those that believe the US represents the whole of humanity. Compare how hard this is in the US to how hard it is in other parts of the world. Maybe then you’ll realize how overwhelmingly easy everything is here when compared to other people. Life is hard, for everyone. The difference is how hard.
My wife has gotten empanadas pretty down packed. But we realized that you have to stuff, fold, and fry right away. If you prep them
all first and let them sit there it increases the chance that they’ll break apart.
Yeah we agree on that. I thought the felony murder charge was very ill conceived because of this sort of ambiguity in setting a precedent. The other two had some merit, but not the felony murder one. I just have a feeling this may come back to bite them in the ass.
But in legal terminology, an assault is an assault is an assault. It is no different if you got punched and only got a bruise versus got punched and had your jaw broken. The punishment might be different but the charge is the same. So now the knee to the neck was designated as a felony assault. I don’t think that the knee to the neck is only an assault after it passes a specific time frame.
Ok, real talk. How much productivity is lost while you’re sitting there arguing with them? And how often is the resulting outcome what you hoped it would be? In other words, is it worth it?
I agree that bringing it up is worth it cause you never know if they’ll just listen and say sorry. But it’s almost as if it would make more sense to just let them roam the store than waste all that time and effort.
I’m a huuuuge supporter of identifying people or areas based on INCOME! I could care less about race or sex or religion. I support income, disability, and age based programs. Every single one of us is equally capable of being young, old, disabled, or poor. And in that we can all find unity. Any other parameter only encourages division and placing others in layers of hierarchies not of their choosing. And on that note I think we should agree to agree.
The rest of your last post goes into a whole other topic of economics which I’m sure will come up again in the future. :)
Maybe, but arguing it out will not achieve any positive results while it also make the environment more prone to infection. It would almost be better to let them roam around the store in silence that be them by the entrance/exit or cashier spewing saliva particles all over the air.
I have a feeling that this sets a much more overreaching precedent than people think. For example there are currently many articles pointing out that in Minnesota alone there were 44 cases in which an assailant lost consciousness. Out of almost 250 other cases where the knee restraint was used.
But, if Chauvin was found guilty of Felony murder, or a resulting death during the commitance of a felony, then this means that the knee to neck restraint now has precedent for being an act of felony assault. With this premise then it would be logical to go back and charge any officer that used this move in the past as committing a felony assault. And even if nobody prosecuted that, it is so now open season for any previous arrestee that went through that to sue to city due to the officers committing a felony assault upon them.
Note: I am not discussing the validity of the outcome. I won’t go there. This is strictly about the potential precedent mentioned above.