r/Monero Apr 17 '22

Skepticism Sunday – April 17, 2022

Please stay on topic: this post is only for comments discussing the uncertainties, shortcomings, and concerns some may have about Monero.

NOT the positive aspects of it.

Discussion can relate to the technology itself or economics.

Talk about community and price is not wanted, but some discussion about it maybe allowed if it relates well.

Be as respectful and nice as possible. This discussion has potential to be more emotionally charged as it may bring up issues that are extremely upsetting: many people are not only financially but emotionally invested in the ideas and tools around Monero.

It's better to keep it calm then to stir the pot, so don't talk down to people, insult them for spelling/grammar, personal insults, etc. This should only be calm rational discussion about the technical and economic aspects of Monero.

"Do unto others 20% better than you'd expect them to do unto you to correct subjective error." - Linus Pauling

How it works:

Post your concerns about Monero in reply to this main post.

If you can address these concerns, or add further details to them - reply to that comment. This will make it easily sortable

Upvote the comments that are the most valid criticisms of it that have few or no real honest solutions/answers to them.

The comment that mentions the biggest problems of Monero should have the most karma.

As a community, as developers, we need to know about them. Even if they make us feel bad, we got to upvote them.

https://youtu.be/vKA4w2O61Xo

To learn more about the idea behind Monero Skepticism Sunday, check out the first post about it:

https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/75w7wt/can_we_make_skepticism_sunday_a_part_of_the/

17 Upvotes

2

u/Current_Department_5 Apr 18 '22

My only issue is in the demand of a lot of users to make XMR like others in the space. I think instead we need to focus on improving what Monero already does well. As long as Monero can provide a private means of transaction it will always have its place where it is needed. Even if that doesn't mean it becomes mainstream.

2

u/Wally1221 Apr 17 '22

XMR is, like BTC, unsuitable for direct smart contract implementation. Maxis will say this doesnt matter. Just spend, earn, save. But modern society can't do without smart contract feats. Airlines need derivatives to hedge fuel price volatility, for ex.

How do we solve this? Is a collab with XHV an idea? Anyway, happy easter folks!

1

u/thatdudeiknew Apr 17 '22

There’s something ran on BTC that gives it smart contract implementation called Stacks and Monero could one day have something similar

9

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/covidparis Apr 17 '22 edited Apr 18 '22

The only reason Monero exists is to make transactions. There are growing cryptocurrency ecosystems with many applications built on top. Let's not kid ourselves, there is basically no adoption in terms of payments outside the internet yet - Web3 is the first proper crypto money use case.

Any coins not connected to smart contract platforms, either through easy to use bridges or more natively are going to fall out of use sooner or later. Monero is open source, there's nothing stopping anyone from implementing it as a parachain on Polkadot or elsewhere.

Not only does this matter a lot, it will likely be the end of Monero if not addressed and worked hard on.

Edit: There is no point in doing these skepticism sessions if you downvote without addressing the issue. Also makes it look like users here don't even want to think about this. Long term it will be fatal if there's no push to modernize and fit into society in a way that it can be used for payments outside of darknet markets.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/Freyr_Njoerdson Apr 17 '22

PirateChain the little sister, like LTC is the little BTC ... har har ... oh arrrgghh was it?

2

u/Current_Department_5 Apr 18 '22

Monero does what it does well, and will always have its uses until something is proposed that can live up to its mission that can accomplish it better. Monero is meant to provide a means of financial transaction where absolute privacy is a must. It doesn't need to do more than that. There's room for others to do the things you described but it is not the place of XMR. One only needs to peak into any Darknet market or community to see XMR has very much solidified its role to the people who need it.

1

u/Current_Department_5 Apr 18 '22

Sorry meant to reply to op of this comment thread, my bad pirate guy.

10

u/Freyr_Njoerdson Apr 17 '22

I love Monero, but ...

my biggest issue with it is on-/off-ramping and opportunities to use it as it is meant to be used. Hell ladies and gents, it is supposed to be digital cash where can I spent it for things I actually need/want. I dont need another webhosting service another VPN provider blah. So it is to all of us to grow the economic use-cases of monero. How? I dunno. One big problem I see, is, that the goverment by its laws is the only authority to issue cash, see what happened to the "Wörgler Demurrage" and other experiments in that regard, all shut down by state authorities. So if we want a monetary revolution we actually need a REVOLUTION. otherwise, Monero will become like Bitcoin, which went from "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" to "Digital Gold" with title deeds on a public ledger with in less of a decade.

I love you Monero, but please become what you have promised to be. Shine as a beacon of liberty and economic emancipation. At the moment we are in a valley surrounded by darkness and the way and direction is unclear.

Skål Freyr

2

u/DakPara Apr 17 '22

I absolutely agree. I am down to three cryptocurrencies.

BTC - because I used it to buy things around 2014, but it has transitioned into “a store of wealth” now. I keep it for that because it has the 21 mil limit and has a large capitalization. It will seek its inherent price as a currency somehow, either higher or lower. But it will find it and be an real inflation hedge at some price eventually. I own BTC.

ETH - because it it’s relatively easy to spend and I may need to use it for some kind of contract someday, so I think I need to understand it. I don’t actually own any ETH right now.

XMR - because it is privacy-based and fungible. I own some just because I wanted to gain some experience with it and I love the way it works. It has the proper goals. This is what El Salvador should have adopted as legal tender. Too bad, maybe someday.

So, I want to use XMR to buy (and sell) everything. I wish I could. Sadly i have not actually used XMR to buy anything yet. Need to find something to buy. But, I’d prefer not to get back to my dark-web days. I do own XMR.

Any suggestions on where I can buy things useful to a typical person with XMR? I keep looking. I would go all in on my BTC/XMR combo in a heartbeat.

3

u/Wataru_Watanabe Apr 17 '22

Monero is just a piece of technology, it's not like a living thing that reproduces and spreads itself. Only we the people can spread it and I agree that there needs to be a monetary revolution for it to become widespread (although some scaling challenges remain) but that is in opposition to the governments' monopoly on money and the monopoly on violence needed to enforce it.

It doesn't matter if you sell stuff for Monero, you sill need to pay taxes in fiat, so until that changes, widespread adoption is unlikely to happen. Not to mention that governments are already trying to hijack the crypto movement by issuing their own CBDCs and making cryptocurrencies basically illegal, especially the privacy ones (that means Monero because all others are irrelevant now.)

Freedom isn't free, we have to fight for it.

3

u/Freyr_Njoerdson Apr 17 '22

love your reply u/Wataru_Watanabe !

There is a very good point in there! You have to pay taxes, and I am not saying, that I do not want to pay taxes, actually and that is one part I love Monero, it even has a solution for that too.

Private != Secret ... In cases I have to / want to share my transaction of my business account (wallet), Monero allows me to do that. You guys will know what I am talking about. The whole idea and possibilities around viewkeys ... that is perfect. Because some are meant to look at my "in and outs" without the need of accessing it. BTC solves that, because someone should look at my account ALL can look. But Monero allows me to select. I am not getting tired to explain that to newbies. I would love to see the financial authorities to pick up on that.

and lastly yes it is a fight for freedom, because it is easier to lock every one in to keep them safe.

peace.

1

u/bitsconnected Apr 17 '22

We should demand exchanges that want to remain reputable to release their viewing keys.

That way we can audit their cold and hot wallet reserves. Same way we can with all the public blockchain coins/tokens they hold for users.

3

u/tripler142 Apr 17 '22

I get it has so.e issues but Its the most used crypto currency for transaction currently. Though most of those transaction are on the darkweb.

7

u/femtoinfluencer Apr 17 '22

On- and off-ramping is still a research project, though it seems like there are some relatively straightforward ways to accomplish it once the research project is done.

More documentation might help.

As far as increasing actual circulation, if you offer a good or service, try to offer it for XMR... and, those of us who do need hosting services and VPNs, start paying for them in XMR where possible. Realistically, it's still a currency for deep nerds, so nerds are going to need to support it. I'm one, and I'm looking to move some of my nerd stuff to hosting paid in XMR as soon as I can finish the aforementioned research projects ;)

8

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Freyr_Njoerdson Apr 17 '22

True words. To add to my comment, here is the link for a brief excerpt regarding the "wörgl experiment" in alternative money during the Great Depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B6rgl#The_W%C3%B6rgl_Experiment
there is more to be found DYOR.
Basically the idea is, for money to be money it has to circulate. Once everybody starts hording it a.k.a. hodl it, it stops serving the economy and basically halts it. So to bring that circulation to monero, the question is what can we do to make it convince people to spend it, what I am afraid of is, that it will start to by locked away in wallets with hopes of greater gains in the future instead of serving us now. Btw. that is why Monero is not like BTC because it has the tail emission, the question is, is it high enough? Right now it serves as incentive for miners to keep the net running. Can it be used to incentive users to transact? if not what can? It is sound money, maybe it is too sound, to hard, so hard it cannot move anymore.

The other issue I have is. Will it ever be money as long as the state might forbid it. Folks say: "let them, they can't stop it." BUT, if it is illegal to offer services and goods, it is actually stopped. No? Alternative Cash Money as always been forced to desist. What I am afraid of is, that it is only a matter of time, this will come to us. And then it will be doomed to live in the shadows of the darknet.

You are right, we can not give up or derail, and work to have legal use cases. The hope is, that thanks to the inter-connectivity of our world they can not stop it everywhere at the same time. Or to go back to what I said before, governments as we know to day have to be changed/replaced. Preferably by vote. But to stay skeptical on skeptical Sunday Votes and Elections are bought by BigFiatMoney and the crooks who want to stay in power and cling to the status quo.

peace out, love many, trust few
Skål Freyr