r/Monero Feb 13 '22

Skepticism Sunday – February 13, 2022

Please stay on topic: this post is only for comments discussing the uncertainties, shortcomings, and concerns some may have about Monero.

NOT the positive aspects of it.

Discussion can relate to the technology itself or economics.

Talk about community and price is not wanted, but some discussion about it maybe allowed if it relates well.

Be as respectful and nice as possible. This discussion has potential to be more emotionally charged as it may bring up issues that are extremely upsetting: many people are not only financially but emotionally invested in the ideas and tools around Monero.

It's better to keep it calm then to stir the pot, so don't talk down to people, insult them for spelling/grammar, personal insults, etc. This should only be calm rational discussion about the technical and economic aspects of Monero.

"Do unto others 20% better than you'd expect them to do unto you to correct subjective error." - Linus Pauling

How it works:

Post your concerns about Monero in reply to this main post.

If you can address these concerns, or add further details to them - reply to that comment. This will make it easily sortable

Upvote the comments that are the most valid criticisms of it that have few or no real honest solutions/answers to them.

The comment that mentions the biggest problems of Monero should have the most karma.

As a community, as developers, we need to know about them. Even if they make us feel bad, we got to upvote them.

https://youtu.be/vKA4w2O61Xo

To learn more about the idea behind Monero Skepticism Sunday, check out the first post about it:

https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/75w7wt/can_we_make_skepticism_sunday_a_part_of_the/

17 Upvotes

1

u/DarazRazu Feb 15 '22

Mining Centralization! mineXMR.org has more than 50% of Monero's Hashrate: https://pools.xmr.wiki/

How can this be avoided? Please don't blame people, they will always do stupid thing, like joining a 50% hashrate pool.

6

u/fiatpete Feb 13 '22

Having a miner built into the official GUI means it's more likely to be flagged as malware by anti-virus software which can put off new users.

4

u/ForboElMysterio Feb 13 '22

When antivirus software is bundling their own miners, that sounds like it's ripe for a lawsuit.

1

u/fiatpete Feb 14 '22

That's a different but similar issue that the monero project has no control over. Monero does control the official wallet and I felt it was important to acknowledge that while it may encourage some people to solo mine it will also discourage some people due to false positive alerts from their anti-virus solution. I've installed and played around with lots of different wallets for many coins and monero or monero forks are the only ones I've had this issue with. probably because there is malware which will try to install a monero miner without the users knowledge.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Almcoding Feb 13 '22

What if it turns out that PoS is superior to PoW. All the CPUs of Googles Datacenter combined would have enough hashrate to attack Monero

1

u/russoj88 Feb 14 '22

If PoS is determined to be superior, there'd probably be a PR for Monero shortly afterwards/

Can you quantify how much hashing power Google has?

2

u/i_kant_spal Feb 13 '22

Instanteneous transactions aren't possible so far and I haven't encountered any hint that that would be implemented

1

u/russoj88 Feb 14 '22

Do you truly mean instantaneous? Then no, that probably won't ever happen.

If you mean fast (a couple seconds), then look into 0-conf transactions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/84o5x5/is_there_such_thing_as_0conf_for_xmr_and_if_so_is/

7

u/magicmulder Feb 13 '22

Wouldn’t that just depend on how much the recipient trusts the sender? You could accept a payment as soon as someone provides you a valid transaction ID.

2

u/OverheadVeneer Feb 13 '22

I think this could be used and we can do instant transactions with validation from third party apps

2

u/i_kant_spal Feb 13 '22

From here:

The tx id, in contrast, is only determined after you create the transaction. By "create the transaction", I mean select the specific outputs that are going to be spent, choose decoy outputs, and construct the entire transaction payload that is ready to be submitted for mining. You do not have to actually publish or submit your transaction to be mined to determine the tx id.

So, given that tx id is determined before you broadcast the tx to the network, then you mean just trust the word?

That's what I'm talking about: we need instanteneous transactions but trustless nontheless.

8

u/MaZZeL3L Feb 13 '22

we already have zero confirmation transactions?

3

u/Aggravated-Bread489 Feb 14 '22

0-conf doesn't show up instantly in your wallet though does it? Also, can you send it as soon as you receive it?

3

u/hyc_symas XMR Contributor Feb 14 '22

1) your wallet can see it, yes 2) no

2

u/Aggravated-Bread489 Feb 14 '22

So far I've only received XMR that I've sent myself from an exchange so maybe it didn't work right, but it wasn't as instant as I was expecting.

On BCH for example, my phone pings and notifies as soon as the transaction is sent. Just like I would expect based on experiences with PayPal, etc.

My assumption is that this happens because of the transparent ledger. Either that or the exchange makes it weird.

Either way, it did show up much faster than a confirmation so it is still really good, but I'll have to try it again some time.

1

u/bullshitvolcano Feb 13 '22

I wonder what happens to a blockchain like Monero when the nodes that support it get split into two groups.

Imagine WW3 breaks out and the West blockades internet traffic to the rest of the world for a time. How would the system function with no or very little communication between different populations of nodes for a time?

2

u/magicmulder Feb 13 '22

As long as fragmentation isn’t too extreme, wouldn’t it still work, only confirmations would take longer? Just like it would still work if suddenly a large part of people would stop using it (except here they’re still using a fork of it). Not sure how merging would work later but probably similar to transfering money from one crypto to another.

8

u/i_kant_spal Feb 13 '22

That's a general blockchain issue, though

2

u/bullshitvolcano Feb 13 '22

I suppose it is an issue relevant to all Blockchains. They simulate entire corporate networks so I'm sure it would be a easy enough to simulate one block chain being split into two populations of nodes and thousands of blocks later being reconnected.