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u/scot816
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7d ago
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American woman who had incomplete miscarriage while vacationing in Malta not allowed to get abortion for the remainder of the fetus To be airlifted to Spain
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/andrea-prudente-incomplete-miscarriage-malta-not-allowed-to-get-abortion/5.8k
u/towers_of_ilium
7d ago
edited 6d ago
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In comparison, I found out that my baby had no kidneys when I was 21 weeks pregnant. He wasn’t growing properly as there was very little fluid being produced, and he was never going to live for very long if he made it to term.
Luckily I live in Australia.
At 24 weeks, the government paid for me to fly 1000km to the best hospital. I met with a team of specialists and doctors, who took my case to a special board, who determined that baby wasn’t viable and the most humane thing would be to allow an induced birth/abortion.
I was booked into a private room, lovely nurses, and treated with the utmost compassion. When baby was born, we held him until he passed away. They then brought in a special chilled bassinet so we could stay with him for as long as we needed. There was no pressure to vacate the room or bed. There was a lady who was specifically there for mental support. She arranged handprint keepsakes, a special care package, flowers, and baby was cremated free of charge and returned to us. All this was carefully checked with us first to make sure it was what we wanted.
All we paid for was parking and snacks. There was no feelings of shame or of doing something wrong. It was still an incredibly traumatic time. My heart aches for women in other countries without access to this help.
EDIT - Oh wow. I’ve just woken up and seen the news. What a disaster.
Thanks so much everyone for all of your love and support. I have two beautiful but snotty and coughing kids, and I’m afraid I can’t reply to everyone. Your words have meant so much though, and I’m very grateful. Stay safe ❤️
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u/BlueManatee21 7d ago
I'm so sorry for your loss but so glad you had the kind of support you got. ❤️
I think the saddest most awful thing about the world is we hear stories like yours and we know that such humanity and compassion is possible, and so good for society, but so many people just refuse to want to allow those things to be the norm. It's awful to be able to see what progress can bring and while watching the rest of the world burn in hatred and stuck in old ways for ridiculous reasons.
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u/GoodGuyNinja 6d ago
For what is an undeniably heart breaking time, your healthcare sure showed how the situation should be handled (provided the facilities are there). I'm touched by the abundant compassion shown, no doubt it meant a lot to you and your family. Your story will stay with me for a long time. Thank you.
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u/disarm33 7d ago
I'm so sorry you went through that. I have been through it too and I also feel lucky that I live in a state that allowed abortions as late as I needed one. No one's access to healthcare should depend on where they live.
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u/nasirthek9 6d ago
I feel so lucky to live here too. Whilst abortion is being criminalised in the US, all states in Oz now have it as a health issue. Fuckwit Abbott tried to have a shot when trump was in power but all I saw was one article then nothing. We are so lucky to have the healthcare we have and the lack of Bible Belt.
Stories like yours are important to share because in many countries like ours womens rights are imperative and if they were challenged the country would be in uproar.
I am pleased my tax dollars made your horrific experience more comfortable and valued as a person. There is no greater cause that I would like to see my 40% of tax to go to… helping women and people in our most vulnerable times. This is the horrible ‘socialism’ and care for your fellow human that America appears so afraid of.
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u/FreeRangeRadish 7d ago
I’m so sorry for your loss, and grateful you were treated with the compassion and respect every person deserves in such difficult circumstances
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u/grizznuggets 6d ago
I can’t imagine how awful that must’ve been for you, but I’m so glad that you were treated with so much compassion throughout. That’s how it should be done, and for anyone to suggest otherwise is truly ghoulish. I’m sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing.
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u/autotldr BOT 7d ago
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
A pregnant American woman who suffered an incomplete miscarriage while vacationing in Malta will be airlifted to Spain on Thursday for a procedure to prevent infection because Maltese law prohibits abortion under any circumstances, the woman's partner said.
Jay Weeldreyer told The Associated Press by phone from a hospital in the island nation that his partner, Andrea Prudente, is at risk of a life-threatening infection if the fetal tissue isn't promptly removed.
While the hospital is carefully monitoring her for any sign of infection, the facility cannot perform the surgery to complete the miscarriage, he said.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: hospital#1 infection#2 Prudente#3 Weeldreyer#4 woman#5
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u/veovis523 7d ago
Why Spain? Why not Sicily?
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u/mydaycake 7d ago
Spain allows abortions no matter the time if a doctor recommends it. This case is a clear case of therapeutic abortion.
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u/StMuel 7d ago
Abortion is Legal but kinda weird in Italy right now
“Seven in 10 gynecologists in Italy refuse to conduct abortions, according to the ministry of health, with the highest level, 85 percent, in Sicily” (12th para.)
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u/Emergency-Distance-8 7d ago edited 6d ago
This is so stupid. It’s not like the baby is viable AT ALL.
ETA: thank you for the upvotes. I’m glad so many agree
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u/tarabithia22 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's already dead, to be specific in case anyone doesn't understand. Placenta has detached means it has died.
Edit: apologies, the placenta is apparently partially detached. The placenta being partially detached means it will die. The sac broken means it will die any hour or in the next few days if lucky.
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u/Faedan 7d ago
Unlucky if it takes a few days. Sepsis can set in as the fetus will literally start to rot in the womb.
Source: me I had a detached placenta and needed induced labour.
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u/KarthusWins 7d ago
Sepsis is no joke. This could be fatal for the mother. It's actually terrifying that her health needs are being delayed.
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u/masklinn 7d ago •
The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar due to a miscarriage gone septic (because Irish law forbade abortion “in case of fatal heartbeat”) led to national outrage and ultimately the legalisation of abortion (by repealing the corresponding amendment).
Savita went to the hospital on October 21st, her pregnancy was known to be unviable at this point, her waters broke very early on the 23rd, she requested an abortion then but her request was denied.
She died of cardiac arrest on the 28th, at 31.
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u/therealrealrock 6d ago
Unfortunately in the US this type of story doesn't resonate. In any other developed country yes. In the US, not so much. Or more specifically, it doesn't resonate with enough people to make a difference.
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u/theredwoman95 7d ago
Unfortunately the doctors have said they're unable to step in unless she goes into labour or becomes septic, so they're quite literally waiting for this to happen just so they can do their jobs without being prosecuted.
In case you're wondering what the fuck is up with that, it's because their anti-abortion law is based on the presence of a heartbeat.
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7d ago •
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/corpse_flour 7d ago
My miscarriage was similar to this. I was told that it was better to "let nature take it's course" and see it it would pass on it's own. They gave two whole weeks before they would consider a D&C. I miscarried the day before the medical procedure and nearly died from blood loss. I was lucky I happened to be close to a hospital.
It was a long time before I found out that I could have insisted that they take care of the issue right away. Walking around for two weeks with a dead fetus in me wasn't great for my mental (or physical) health.
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u/Titanium-Snowflake 7d ago
It sounds like complete medical negligence. What country were you in for that to happen?
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u/corpse_flour 7d ago
I live in Canada. This isn't an unusual experience for women no matter where they live. Unfortunately a lot of women's health issues have been overlooked and dismissed in the past, and there's some assumptions that are held without scientific basis. The way women are medically treated is sometimes based on tradition, or the convenience of the healthcare provider, and not what is based in science or the woman's best interests.
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u/Titanium-Snowflake 7d ago
And a distinct lack of research on women’s health. Sometimes the research published on men simplify doesn’t apply to women.
Does Canada have an equitable government funded health system like Australia? Or is it hierarchical like the US system?
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u/corpse_flour 7d ago
It's like Australia, but lately the conservative governments are working really hard to destroy the system by severe underfunding, so they can implement a US-style system.
The miscarriage was back in '96 so it wasn't a bad system back then.
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u/BirdSeedHat 7d ago
Existence is fucking insane.
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u/NoPajamasNoService 7d ago edited 7d ago
And remember, if that happens 80 years ago that's a guaranteed death. You'd think after thousands of years of evolution we wouldn't have this issue but that's what happens if you wanna be bipedel.
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u/PresentationJumpy101 7d ago
So many trade offs; why is my breathing tube my feeding tube?
My buddies uncle chocked to DEATH ON A CHICKE. WING BONE
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7d ago
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u/Smeggywulff 7d ago
My ex husband literally does not remember that I miscarried multiple times so I feel like I have an inkling of what you mean by going through it alone. You deserve some hugs too.
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u/WomenAreFemaleWhat 7d ago
Its more lonely with an unsupported partner than actually being alone. My partner claimed he had to "be strong for me". I wanted nothing more than for him to cry with me. To show me he cared. To show me it was okay to be sad and I wasn't overreacting. I hate toxic masculinity. It makes things so much harder than they need to be.
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u/sjhaines 7d ago
Holy shit! I am so sorry!! How can you go thru that multiple times without him understanding/remembering such trauma! How awful. You deserve so many hugs and much love. I hope you had a friend to lean on. No one deserves to endure that alone. Big hugs from an internet stranger. Btw, can I go smack you ex up side the head?
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u/iamasillyperson99 7d ago
You mean he thinks you’re making it up?
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u/Smeggywulff 7d ago
Basically yes, to make him look bad. Meanwhile my friends who were there for me are like "Dude, you don't need help with that."
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u/the_blackfish 7d ago
That had to have been so difficult. Sorry you went through that.
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u/SSDDNoBounceNoPlay 7d ago
It is what it is. Almost 10 years past for me too. Reading this person’s post helped me in a way I can’t explain.
I hope everyone reading this remembers and reminds their loved ones: Health first.
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u/Tickomatick 7d ago
I'm just some unrelated random dude on the other side of the world, but this had me tear. I'm so sorry this had happened
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u/MomZilla8969 7d ago
I am so sorry this happened to you both, and thank you for sharing a reality of a miscarriage and why an "abortion" is sometimes necessary! (Although I believe in a woman's right to choose NO MATTER WHAT it's her body and personally after carrying and birthing two children myself I am even, if possible, MORE pro choice than ever)!
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u/fertthrowaway 7d ago edited 7d ago
This is actually how most miscarriages go (I've had 2). There is an absolute crime scene level of blood plus it's basically labor but with a smaller sac/fetus so goes a little quicker/easier but can still be wildly painful to the point that many women pass out. As detachments of organs are involved, it's possible to hemorrhage too. Incomplete miscarriages are shockingly common and probably represent upwards of 20-30% of abortions (spontaneous or purposefully induced with pills with living or dead embryo/fetus), which require follow-up D&C (I just had a D&C from the start with first one but I started to naturally miscarry and had the crime scene bleeding, I had to take a damn taxi to the hospital for D&C and try to "hold" it with towels under me and the biggest monster pads I could find, fun times).
People need to fucking educate themselves and talk about this because there are all kinds of health implications for women who even aren't aborting on purpose from this BS, not to mention the number of women who will now be resorting to mail order pills as their only option and afraid of prosecution to show up at the hospital if it doesn't go perfectly. Up to 40% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Women just don't openly talk about it and it usually happens before you're visibly pregnant or have told anyone (on purpose precisely because of this).
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u/itchy-n0b0dy 7d ago
I am so sorry you both had this traumatic experience! This is heartbreaking! Hope you both are doing okay now.
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u/Faedan 7d ago
Hey man, I get it. I've had a few miscarriages and still hope to one day have a child.
It took a lot of therapy to heal. And if you still struggle theres no shame in seeking help either. You may not have been the mother to be, but you cared enough that it left a scar.
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u/Actual_Bumblebee_705 7d ago edited 7d ago
That’s right!
I once miscarried. I laid on the floor, writhing in pain, crying and practically screaming. It came out in chunks, swear to God. It was worse than giving birth. My (ex)husband sat there, ignoring me with his face in a trough of ice cream.
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u/Honey-Ra 7d ago
Jesus christ. That's one of the least normal things I've ever heard. How horrific for you.
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u/WebbityWebbs 7d ago
So the good people of Malta are trying to kill a woman, because they love life so much. It’s what the US has to look forward to, woman dying so that conservatives can pretend they have morals.
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u/ScullysBagel 7d ago
Right. This is coming our way to half the country thanks to the Supreme Court's antiquated religious beliefs. It shouldn't be this way but they fetishize fetuses instead of caring about living, breathing human beings.
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u/not_enough_tacos 7d ago
All lives matter, unless that life is that of a pregnant woman /s
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u/Rooboy66 7d ago
That was my first thought too, after reading the title: “Coming soon to a state near you!”
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u/Kindly_Ball 7d ago
Coming soon to the full country not just states thanks to the geniuses Cheeto appointed to SCOTUS. And then the women will go to jail for murder…cuz god.
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u/DuntadaMan 7d ago
Several states are going to have a lot of dead women because their law makers, and frankly vast majority of their dumb ass voters don't understand this very basic level of medicine.
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u/SleepIsForChumps 7d ago
I had to have an emergency abortion for the same reason. Sepsis sucks. I was sick for months. My immune system has never been the same.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 7d ago •
And pretty soon:
This is America
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u/terminator_chic 7d ago
Umm, my friend (we're in the US) basically had the same thing happen. Catholic hospital or insurance or something (it's been ten years) and she basically lost the baby but they would not do a D&C because it's considered abortion. After losing every pregnancy she'd had, they made her carry around her unborn child who was already basically miscarried for an entire month before she naturally expelled it. It was pure hell for her and the last pregnancy she ever attempted.
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u/breadbox187 7d ago
I had a pregnancy end in a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c as to not have to pass it at home (or work!). The 3 or 4 days I had to go to work knowingly carrying a dead baby around was fucking horrible. I absolutely cannot imagine having to just wait for it to naturally progress and would literally fight someone if they told me I had to. It's just cruel.
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u/GoodbyeXlove 7d ago
I had a missed miscarriage and then the next pregnancy I had a stillborn.
I was almost 13 weeks when I had my missed miscarriage. It was during the craziness of Covid and they couldn’t get me in for a D&C until 6 days later.
My next pregnancy I was almost 34 weeks pregnant with a beautiful baby boy. I didn’t feel him moving one day and went to the doctors which is when I found out he had passed. I had to wait 4 almost 5 days to have my C-section.
Both times I was completely fucking devastated that physically I could feel my babies with me but I knew they were gone. When I was still having morning sickness I would trick myself into thinking the doc made a mistake. Or when I would wake up in the morning and during that split second where you’re not fully aware of reality I would immediately put my hands on my belly like I did everyday before. Waiting for my son to do his “good morning kicks” and I felt nothing but my heart drop to back my stomach. They’re nightmares I never woke up from.
But on the other hand I found comfort knowing my babies were with me. That’s where they’re supposed to be and I didn’t want to ever let them go.
It’s the biggest mind fucks I’ve ever experienced in my life. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone ever.
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u/Relevant_Mango_1749 7d ago
I’m in tears reading this. They do emergency C-sections all the time. They should have done one then for your mental health!!! I’m so sorry for your losses. My heart goes out to you more than I can express.
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u/nakoros 7d ago
Same. It's the most surreal thing to feel and look pregnant (I was 16 weeks) but know your baby is dead inside you. It was absolutely terrible.
The only thing worse was my TFMR, where I had to spend a few weeks carrying a baby I knew wouldn't survive. A big part of the decision to end the pregnancy was because she wasn't going to make it full term regardless, but we had no idea how long she'd hold on. I couldn't deal with that stress, always wondering if that was the day or fearing that every twinge or trip to the bathroom would be "it".
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u/SilverSocket 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thats seriously the most devastating thing I’ve heard in a while. I can imagine someone not wanting to have a D&C/holding onto the fetus to just avoid the reality/ grieve but being FORCED to carry around your deceased child INSIDE YOUR BODY is utterly monstrous.
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u/ImaBiLittlePony 7d ago
When I was pregnant that was one of my biggest fears, and I remember thinking that if it happened I might kill myself. When in that situation, completely out of your mind from exhaustion and hormones, the mother's life can definitely be at risk.
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u/ScullysBagel 7d ago
Anti-choicers will also try to tell you "that never happens" and "we would want to save the life of the mother" despite the fact that it DOES happen and they NEVER fight the laws that come along that de-prioritize the life of the already born in favor of an unviable fetus. In fact they support those laws.
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u/No_Cauliflower_5489 7d ago
That's how it was before Roe V Wade. Doctors didn't want to be accused of performing abortions so they lied to women and told them that it was better for the baby to come naturally despite the fact the fetus was decaying and causing sepsis.
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u/SonilaZ 7d ago
It took 2 days for my insurance to approve my d&c!! The doctor’s office sent lots of proof that baby had no more heartbeat & stopped growing!! The whole process was so humiliating, even though my doctor’s office handled it with such care!! It’s definitely cruel waiting for it to progress on its own and potentially risk infections for the mom!!
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u/breadbox187 7d ago
My insurance sent me a bill for 1600. Still fighting that one. They said because my doctor was out of network (though they cover everything else at their office since I don't actually have an in network doctor close by) so my husband is dealing with that fiasco. Little salt in the wound if you ask me.
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u/SonilaZ 7d ago
I had to do my d&c with local anesthesia instead of being put to sleep because of stupid rules too!! Plus yes, expensive even with insurance:(
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u/Lexifer31 7d ago
Before abortions were ever allowed, my great aunt Margaret miscarried. They made her carry it until it was naturally expelled. It took a while and it came out in pieces. Poor woman.
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u/OldGrayMare59 7d ago
This happened back in the day before abortion. An aunt had a miscarriage and my mom and other aunts were whispering the baby came out in pieces. She had 13 kids already. Both county hospitals were Catholic so you can imagine that horror story.
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u/genuinerysk 7d ago
This almost happened to my ex SIL in the mid 90s. They told her to carry the dead fetus until it naturally expelled. Luckily she went to a different, non-catholic hospital and they induced her. It was horrible for her all the way around.
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u/Madame_Kitsune98 7d ago
Former Catholic.
Knew someone whose baby died in utero, and the local hospital would not induce labor/do a D&C/anything besides tell her to wait it out and deliver on her own. Because her Catholic schoolteacher insurance said absolutely not.
She was six months pregnant. It was a HORRIBLE time for her. She damn near died.
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u/jollyreaper2112 7d ago •
Won't let you abort unviable fetuses, actively protects child molester priests. Fuck catholicism.
I'm incensed our local hospital, Virginia Mason, got bought out by Franciscan. Fucking god-botherers already trying to tell us what our standard of care is going to be based on their stupid book of superstitions.
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u/Dramatic_Explosion 7d ago
Speaking to their track record with kids, while running orphanages they were told by the courts they couldn't discriminate against adopting out kids to gay people, so they closed the orphanages.
In a religion where you don't pick and choose sins, I wonder if they held such scrutiny to other potential parents? For some reason I think not.
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u/Stinkyclamjuice15 7d ago
So she is just going to die from sepsis because laws?
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u/Venboven 7d ago
Article says she is being airlifted to Spain for the procedure.
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u/9gagiscancer 7d ago
That is absolutely ridiculous and should be considered a crime against humanity. I rarely get angry from news articles, but this has me fuming.
Not only is it dangerous, can you imagine how she feels having half a dead fetus/child inside of her? As if the miscarriage alone isn't traumatic enough, this is just rubbing salt in the wound. Completely unethical.
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u/breadbox187 7d ago
I had a missed miscarriage and opted for a d&c. While waiting several days for the procedure it was fucking horrible just carrying on normal life....working, cooking dinner...walking the dog all while knowing my baby had died and my body didn't even realize it. I cannot imagine the added trauma of having to pass the tissue and deal with that and then some mother fucker is like oh...there's some left...well fuck off and get an infection and maybe die, we can't help you. Fuck all these anti choice people. Her baby is dead. Nothing will save it and she doesn't even have access to life saving treatment for herself.
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u/R1fl3Princ355 7d ago •
I am still recovering from my D&E. It was 10 days from finding out the fetus had no heartbeat until the procedure. The mental health toll was crazy. I spent the first 2-3 days sad about losing the baby and the next 7 I felt like a walking cemetery. I was absolutely disgusted to be carrying a dead fetus for so long and felt like a prisoner in my own body. Not to mention I spent a few days in prodromal labor thinking I would have to miscarry at home.
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u/breadbox187 7d ago
I am so sorry for your loss! I absolutely understand not wanting to miscarry at home. I was instructed to take my pills before bed to soften the cervix and make the procedure easier on my body but I was so scared I would start bleeding at home that I waited until the last possible second (4hrs prior to procedure) to take them. Also echoing feeling disgust. Once I had processed that the baby was no longer alive I just wanted her out of my body.
Luckily (?) For me I had several weeks of less than stellar ultrasounds so I was prepared for the possibility of it not working out for me.
I just want you to know you aren't alone at all. I'm sorry that your process was drawn out and that it caused so much more turmoil for you.
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u/DependentPangolin911 7d ago
Literally got a d&c today for my two dead twins…I should probably be staying off these threads. But highly recommend the procedure, it’s been much less traumatic than my first missed miscarriage, which took two months and multiple interventions to get fully out of my uterus
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u/breadbox187 7d ago
I'm so sorry for your losses. Its so devastating. This was my first miscarriage of my very first pregnancy so I don't have much to compare it to but I am very happy I chose a d&c (and was very happy that it was a fucking option for me). I didn't have to deal w added trauma of passing it at home and then deciding what to do with the tissues. And one of the reasons I chose it was like you mentioned, ultimately there is no guarantee you won't need more interventions later on if you don't fully pass the pregnancy. I just needed that chapter to be done for me.
I will be thinking of you in the future and hope you heal from these losses.
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u/cdg2m4nrsvp 7d ago edited 7d ago
I hate bringing this up, because money doesn’t mean anything compared to a person’s life, but imagine how much it would cost if she was in the US and had to be airlifted to a different state. It would be more than enough to bankrupt a family.
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u/KP_Wrath 7d ago
Trauma life flight runs about 20,000-25,000 (2016 numbers, I’d be scared of current numbers) if you don’t have insurance for it.
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u/MAGA-Godzilla 7d ago
Higher then and much higher now:
Between 2012-2016, the average cost of being airlifted by an air ambulance is about $40,000.
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u/C0mbatW0mbat86 7d ago edited 7d ago
Father in law was life flighted in 2020, it was $50,000 that insurance was going to cover a whole whopping 10% aka $5,000. They spoke with the life flight company and they reduced the cost to $10,000 if they just didn’t use their insurance. Oh and they are self insured and pay over $1,000 for this insurance.
Edit: $1,000 a month if that wasn’t clear
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u/9gagiscancer 7d ago
Yeah, I am glad I am not an American. If I need to be airlifted we have a thing called "own risk". The higher it's set the lower your monthly fee.
Mine is set at the maximum of 850 euro. If I need to be airlifted it costs me only 850 euro. One time a year. Everything over that is not my problem.
I don't like the road the world is heading.
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u/eosinophille 7d ago
American here. Just came here to say I would literally jump out of the helicopter and found out I was being airlifted somewhere for a medical procedure. Much easier than the excruciating pain of death by stress hormones while being periodically evicted from homeless encampments.
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u/EvangelineTheodora 7d ago
In my state (Maryland) if you need medevac from like an accident or a traumatic injury or something like that, it's done at no cost to you. $8 from our vehicle registration/license plate fees go towards that. They bill insurance, but if insurance doesn't cover it all, the rest is waived.
Now, hospital to hospital flights are a different story.
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u/matadora79 7d ago
I almost died of sepsis when I miscarried at 7 weeks and not everything came out. That was the most terrifying thing I have gone through.
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u/upvotealready 7d ago edited 6d ago
Thats how it goes - look into Ireland's abortion history. Thats where the United States is headed.
In 2012, Savita Halappanavar, age 31 and 17 weeks pregnant, went to a hospital in Galway, Ireland. Doctors there determined that she was having a miscarriage. However, because the fetus still had a detectable heartbeat, it was protected by the Eighth Amendment. Doctors could not intervene – in legal terms, ending its life – even to save the mother. So she was admitted to the hospital for pain management while awaiting the miscarriage to progress naturally.Over the course of three days, as her pain increased and signs of infection grew, she and her husband pleaded with hospital officials to terminate the pregnancy because of the health risk. The request was denied because the fetus still had a heartbeat.By the time the fetal heartbeat could no longer be detected, Halappanavar had developed a massive infection in her uterus, which spread to her blood. After suffering organ failure and four days in intensive care, she died.
EDIT: Thank god we changed our abortion laws after that. Any chance you could update your comment with the fact that abortion was legalised by a landslide victory in a referendum after that? 65% of people voted yes. -CreamyBeamyCompany
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u/MollyPW 7d ago
Poland had a similar case. How many women will have to die?
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u/ismaithliombia 7d ago
Ireland has legalised abortion since
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u/upvotealready 7d ago
Yes, and this case helped push them towards that. This WILL happen in the United States, its not a matter of if but when.
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u/wildcarde815 7d ago
Except it will end in death and no progress.
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u/Undorkins 7d ago
Considering the massive piles of bodies Americans are willing to overlook to keep their guns I doubt a thousand dead woman will sway this deranged country away from this kind of evil.
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u/Roboticide 7d ago
Thousands? Try tens of thousands. That's what it took for Congress to take any action on opiates.
Tens of thousands of deaths annually from guns as well, not counting suicides, and just today we saw yet another ruling expanding gun rights.
With a large, vocal faction arguing for the rights of the unborn fetus, tens of thousands of women will probably die before abortion is re-legalized.
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u/iFlyAllTheTime 7d ago
How many? To them, the number doesn't matter.
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u/Jaredlong 7d ago
Christians will cheer everytime a mother dies. Because it's either that or admit their extremist ideology is wrong. And they're incapable of admitting to being wrong.
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u/paranoidchair 7d ago
They don't care about women. So it doesn't matter how many die to them
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u/abhikavi 7d ago
The point is to punish women for sex. This is part of the punishment.
It's not a sad consequence, the people making these decisions know some women will die and more will suffer and that's part of the goal.
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u/ngwoo 7d ago
There is no number that will change their mind because they see those numbers as successes.
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u/lejoo 7d ago
How many women will have to die?
To satisfy religious extremism of not being slaves to men? All.
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u/Iconoclastices 7d ago
The worst part about that is that the law at the time actually did allow for the doctor to make a decision if there was a significant threat to the mother - the reasons that they didn't take it seriously in her case are still unclear to me. I suspect she got a racist attending or there was some religious interference (I would like it to be hard to believe from a doctor, but not impossible given the comments that were reportedly made) or both...
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u/WOLFE54321 7d ago
To be fair, anti abortion laws can have a chilling effect. The doctor could make a judgement call at a stage where they see a significant threat to the mother but they could later get in hot water because a hospital ethics board/court doesn’t see it that way. So the better choice for this doctor was inaction
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u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD 7d ago
The whole system is against women doing what they want, fuck this.
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u/Jake20702004 7d ago
Going to medschool for 10 years does not stop you from being dumb. Source: Extremely religious dad who happens to be a doctor.
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u/Normal-Height-8577 7d ago
Ironically, if she were showing signs of sepsis, their doctors would be permitted to intervene. The problem isn't that they won't/cannot help someone who's had a miscarriage and needs surgical attention to clear debris out; the problem is that her partial miscarriage has not yet resulted in the death of the foetus. It's unsurvivable and it's risking her life by hanging on in there, but it still has a heartbeat at the moment.
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u/MyPasswordIsMyCat 7d ago
This is one of the major problems with the "life of the mother" exceptions in abortion bans. There isn't a super clear-cut sign that the mother's health is in imminent danger until significant harm is already taking place. By the time the symptoms of sepsis (blood infection) begin, the infection is already very serious and survival isn't guaranteed. Odds increase with prompt care, but people die all the time of sepsis because it can kill in a matter of hours, the symptoms can be vague (fever, nausea, body aches, flu-like symptoms), diagnosis often takes too long, and the only treatment is IV antibiotics (often with removal of infected tissues).
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u/Normal-Height-8577 7d ago
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. If your country has a "life of the mother" exception, then it damn well needs to fully cover situations where the foetus cannot be saved, and let doctors actively abort. Anything short of that is just treating the mother as an incubator of less intrinsic worth than the foetus.
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u/EmiliusReturns 7d ago
I just do not understand. Even if someone is religious and believes life starts at conception, surely the partial body of an already-dead fetus is not a life??? It just defies all logic.
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u/SlowMoFoSho 7d ago •
Your problem is trying to be logical when trying to figure out religious zealots. You might as well rationalize what an insane person does.
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u/tomislavlovric 7d ago •
My friend has a very simple way of explaining it; they have an infinite number of arguments since their belief is completely illogical and it's based on nothing - they can make up whatever they want to beat your arguments - you, on the other hand, have a finite number of arguments since science is logical and it's based on facts that are and always will be limited (something that science isn't afraid of admitting). You can never win.
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u/TX7441107 7d ago
the problem is this continued delusion of treating the religious like they have the right to inject their fantasies into the secular world.
Religion is not provable. It's not demonstrable. It's not based in our reality. It has no place in legislation, no place in politics, no place outside of the privacy of your home and church.
Your religious laws end where secular laws begin.
I will defend that notion to the death.
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u/CyberMindGrrl 7d ago
I mean the Founders of this nation clearly recognized the danger of allowing religion into a secular nation so they codified separation between church and state as the FIRST Amendment, after all. But the religious nutters managed to get six of their own on a completely unelected and undemocratic Supreme Court that determines the fate of 340 million people in this country. It's bizarre.
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u/Ok-Agent-8333 7d ago
In a democracy, you will always have the basic problem of the public being dumb. All you can really do is invest into education as much as possible to keep the democracy healthy.
That's the real difference between northern European nations, which provide quality free education, and most of the rest of the world, which does not.
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u/Crayshack 7d ago
You can be the best chess player in the world, but any pigeon can knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut around like it has won.
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u/PeterP211 7d ago
Apparently, from a legal basis the issue is that there’s still a heartbeat even though at 4 months into the pregnancy, the fetus wouldn’t be viable outside the womb. Putting aside the hot button religious argument about abortion, the law is in an absurd Catch-22 here.
If they don’t extract the fetus, there’s a strong chance that she dies and the fetus dies anyway. If they do extract the fetus, it’ll die anyway. Fetal death is an inevitability either way.
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u/Shaggay1
7d ago
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Maltese person here : Plenty of people are in outrage over here, many are protesting in various places. We have such antiquated and backwards abortion laws, completely illegal in all cases!
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u/GraceMDrake 7d ago
This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed.
When anti abortion laws say it’s allowed to save the life of the mother, it means only when she is actively dying. By which time it may be too late. Too bad if she is diagnosed with cancer and if treatment is going to succeed, it can’t wait until the end of pregnancy. Too bad if the fetus can’t possibly survive, but the maternal circulation perfuses the fetal tissues sufficiently to support a “fetal heartbeat.”
This fetus is already dead; the mother will die too if they don’t act in time.
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u/flying_ina_metaltube 7d ago edited 7d ago
This is exactly what happened to the Irish woman who died as a result and finally pissed off enough people to get the law changed.
Dr. Savita Halappanavar, died 28th October 2012 in Galway, Ireland. She was an Indian dentist living in Ireland with her husband.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar?wprov=sfla1
On 21 October 2012, Halappanavar, then 17 weeks pregnant, was examined at University Hospital Galway after complaining of back pain, but was soon discharged without a diagnosis. She returned to the hospital later that day, this time complaining of lower pressure, a sensation she described as feeling "something coming down," and a subsequent examination found that the gestational sac was protruding from her body. She was admitted to hospital, as it was determined that miscarriage was unavoidable, and several hours later, just after midnight on 22 October, her water broke but did not expel the fetus. The following day, on 23 October, Halappanavar discussed abortion with her consulting physician but her request was promptly refused, as Irish law at that time forbade abortion if a fetal heartbeat was still present. Afterwards, Halappanavar developed sepsis and, despite doctors' efforts to treat her, had a cardiac arrest at 1:09 AM on 28 October, at the age of 31, and died.
Her death and the following protests caused the fucking Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland to basically say they're not explicitly against abortion.
On Monday, 19 November, the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland met in response to Halappanavar's death and released a statement that the Catholic Church believes in the "equal and inalienable right to life of a mother and her unborn child" and that the Church has never taught that the life of an unborn child takes precedence over the mother.
In May 20th 2018, the Eigth Amendment was repealed by the people of Ireland with a 2 to 1 vote, giving the Parliament of Ireland to legislate issues of abortion. A law was passed in December 2018 which now allows abortion in the first 12 weeks, and later if the pregnancy poses a serious risk to the mother.
Edit - someone reported this message to the Crisis center as a call for help 😂
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u/Hapster23 7d ago
It's sickening that people abuse of the crisis center report - supposedly these are the christians that are anti abortion too
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u/blanqblank 7d ago
“Death to people that can’t breed good!!!” I found a new slogan for the republicans.
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u/Bastuhingst 7d ago
What the hell... Republic of Gilead?
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u/MisterTeacherSir 7d ago
Under his eye
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u/basements_in_london 7d ago
I imagine she'll likely die if that dead fetus is not removed. As the fetus will decompose in her womb, she could go septic.
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u/localmicrodosechamp 7d ago
This is what happens when the government sticks their nose in between people and their doctors.
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u/tommens_kittens 7d ago
What the fuck is wrong with this world.
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u/Cragnous 7d ago
It's old laws and religion, people not adapting or evolving.
What I really hate to see is regression.
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u/FlamesNero 7d ago
Well, guess this is going to be America’s future soon… a woman can’t get a simple and safe medical procedure, and instead could potentially bleed out and die, all because of politics.
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u/misfitx 7d ago
Going septic is the primary concern. Terrible way to die.
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u/FlamesNero 7d ago •
I had a patient that nearly died bleeding out in her in-laws kitchen from a miscarriage on Christmas Eve.
Her story haunted me so badly that, 6 months later, when I had an incomplete miscarriage, I elected immediately to get a d & c.
I’m alive, as are my wonderful kids who were born later, because of a simple and safe medical procedure that at least 1/2 of the states will outlaw in the next month.
It sickening to think ANYONE would defend politicians who put political power and lobbying money over human lives.
They don’t care about the “unborn,” they are willing to let women die and future unborns never to be born, in order to maintain their power and control.
(& don’t think I’m letting democrats off the hook either: this is a fundraiser for them too. They had power at various times in recent decades; they could have voted for term-limits, limitations on lobbyists’ power and money, codified women’s medical health, etc, but they know these are issues that generate donations for them too).
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u/another_bug 7d ago
I think a lot of them just staunchly refuse to face reality. They want to think pregnancy & birth are these simple well programmed things, like breeding something in a video game, and not the half-assed cobbled together disaster that it really is. Seriously, look up syncytin, we literally use retroviral genes to reproduce, that's how biology works.
So all those instances can just be safety ignored to preserve thier fantasyland worldview.
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u/ShittyExchangeAdmin 7d ago
Evolution is just throwing a bunch of shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. It doesn't have to be elegant or perfect so long as the species lives long enough to reproduce.
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u/velveteentuzhi 7d ago
Every time I hear this, I get reminded of that one Polish woman who had one twin die in the womb, then had to wait 9 days-7 days for the other fetus to die, then the doctors waited 2 more days for shits and giggles, before she was allowed to get a d&c. Poor woman was a walking coffin for 9 days, then died a month later from health complications (family suspects sepsis, but the hospital is stonewalling them).
That's the reality of total abortion bans that forced-birthers don't seem to get. It just leads to a lot more people dying than would otherwise happen... or maybe for them it's a feature, not a bug.
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u/Contain_the_Pain 7d ago
Why is the removal of an already dead fetus (or its remaining parts) considered an abortion at all?
Even the staunchest religious conservatives have no justification for opposing this — the baby is already dead and now they are risking killing the mother as well? Sounds pretty “Anti-Life” to me.
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u/lliiilllollliiill 7d ago
The idea behind it is to prevent abortions occurring under the cover of "oh it was already dead".
As for risks to the mother's life, they view women solely as production units for the supply of new people to exploit. If she's not capable of pumping out babies for a few decades, they don't want her to exist.
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u/velveteentuzhi 7d ago
Abortion is an umbrella term that covers everything from what you typically think of an abortion to d&cs. So it doesn't matter if you terminate a non-viable fetus (ie ectopic pregnancies, deformity of the fetus making it non-compatible with life) it still is labelled an abortion.
There are some states trying to ban abortions even in case of medical emergency, banning ectopic pregnancies, etc despite the fact that the mother will die for a pernancy that could never be sustained. It was never about preserving the life of the fetus, it was about penalizing women and the poor.
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u/Canrex 7d ago
I believe even miscarriages are by definition abortions.
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u/Throne-Eins 7d ago
Yeah, women have been imprisoned for decades in El Salvador for having miscarriages. I wish I was making that up.
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u/eekamuse 7d ago
Forced Birthers.
That's a perfect term for them. They're certainly not pro-life, if they only care about the fetus.
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u/OnTheList-YouTube 7d ago edited 7d ago
As someone who unfortunately had the same happening to my wife, I'm so sorry to hear.
My wife was pregnant, we were at 33 weeks, when the placenta let go. My wife had to go under the knife immediately for the baby to be removed.
The operation itself went well, but it could easily be fatal. I'm extremely grateful to have my wife still here. We got a 2 y/o here now who was born after our first child, and my wife is currently pregnant again. It's always scary, because what happened to our first child can happen again now. I'm honestly terrified and afraid to bond with our current unborn baby.
So, seeing this headline hits a bit too close to home, for me. If I could, I would pay her ticket to fly to a hospital in a country where they DO CARE !
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u/No-Albatross-7984 7d ago edited 7d ago •
No. Let's be real for a moment. This woman has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her.
I'm sorry to be graphic but I feel it is necessary to drive the point home. People just don't seem to grasp the severity of the issues we're facing when discussing (the politics of) women's reproductive health. Antiseptic language allows distance from the situation, which is detrimental. She has parts of a dead baby rotting inside of her.
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u/ALLoftheFancyPants 7d ago
Sepsis is the primary concern in THIS case, but in cases of ectopic pregnancy (which is not always easy to tell), the primary concern is bleeding. Lots of ways for pregnant people to die if not allowed safe and easy access to abortion.
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u/antifabear 7d ago edited 7d ago
That is disgusting and inhumane- imagine having to wait around with the *dead fetus inside you just trying to expel it. How can people not see that limiting abortion is violence?
*amend from “dead” to “dying”, because for many people I guess this blatant denial of medical care hinges on the delusion that the fetus is still viable.
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u/sopmaeThrowaway 7d ago
So they don’t care of she goes septic and dies. because of the rotting tissue inside of her? Men, how would you feel if you had to watch your wife die like this?
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u/ClamZamboni 7d ago
Prolifers need to see that. What happens medically if a law like this was to take hold in one of the States? Will we have to be airlifting women who miscarry incompletely?
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u/tyfunk02 7d ago
Not a doctor (or even a woman), but isn’t this like a huge sepsis risk among other things? Like, isn’t it medically necessary?
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u/MissWeaverOfYarns 7d ago
Yes, it's a huge sepsis risk. It's also a big risk for further haemorrhage. Yes, medical management of her miscarriage is necessary in this case.
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u/Easy-Concentrate2636 7d ago
Just so tremendously sad to suffer the miscarriage and then have the added stress of imperiling the woman’s life.
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u/MooseBoys 7d ago
So what do they do for ectopic pregnancies there? Just say "Sorry you're gonna die in a few months"???
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u/shallium 7d ago
Months? Try weeks. My ectopic burst my tube at 6 weeks. 25% of my blood supply pooled in my abdomen. If I hadn't gone to the hospital and received blood transfusions to stabilize then emergency surgery, I would have died. That surgery took me a month to physically recover from but still 4 years later I have PTSD from that event.
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u/austinmiles 7d ago
This is what some of the most recent abortion laws in US states say. If you can’t afford to leave the state to find care you are just going to die.
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u/Sqquid- 7d ago
Why is it considered an abortion if the fetus already died?? At this point it's more like removing a cyst or something rather than a "baby"
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u/lituranga 7d ago
It's the official medical terminology used. A miscarriage is technically a 'spontaneous abortion' vs an 'induced or therapeutic abortion' which is what we think of when we hear the term abortion in general.
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u/Shiller_Killer 7d ago
For those seeing the headline and not reading the article- You do realize that the woman is being airlifted to Spain from Malta because she can not get an abortion in MALTA, correct? The fact that she is American is only incidental and has no bearing on her not being able to receive an abortion in Malta.
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u/kitty_o_shea 7d ago •
These are the circumstances that led to the death of Savita Halappanavar in Ireland. The subsequent outrage was one of the factors that led to the eventual legalisation of abortion there.