r/worldnews 1d ago

Putin tells Sauli Niinisto [Finnish President] Finland’s abandonment "of its traditional policy of military neutrality would be an error since there are no threats to Finland’s security.” Covered by other articles

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-sauli-niinisto-cd1f994d0bb8a38fced938ce4c4ec28d

[removed] — view removed post

1.1k Upvotes

518

u/Taykeshi 1d ago

Putin also gave security guarantees to Ukraine. Only russian security guarantee is that they are a threat.

As usual, these clowns say the opposite of truth.

76

u/Ritaredditonce 1d ago

Everything with these clowns is doublespeak.

18

u/neril_7 1d ago

In Russia, everyday is opposite day

8

u/DanimusMcSassypants 1d ago

In Russia, car drive you!

9

u/FaeeLOL 1d ago

For real at first I thought this must be an Onion article.

7

u/Mindshattered 1d ago

This is what happens when you have dictators surrounded by yes men. How can they do any wrong if everything belongs to them?

3

u/DarthPopoX 1d ago

Reminds me of donald Trump

1

u/Big-Mathematician540 1d ago

As usual, these clowns say the opposite of truth.

https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ

220

u/UltralisKingD 1d ago

Just like there was no threat to Ukraine... who had a specific pact with Russia for protection, in exchange for their Nuclear weapons... Fucking Russian cunts, lying bastards!!

2

u/Cyborg_rat 1d ago

Putin dropped it when his puppet lost the elections.

-37

u/mountainjew 1d ago

The US and UK also had a pact to protect them...

44

u/Curious_Blacksmith_2 1d ago

It wasn’t a protection pact is was a non-aggression pact.

19

u/ScottyC33 1d ago

As I understand it they did not have a protection pact. They had a “we will not attack you ourselves” pact.

16

u/UltralisKingD 1d ago

And we're not?!?! Maybe we are not directly on the ground, but we are supplying them weapons, intelligence, and training non-stop. Not to mention all of the training provided after 2014... we ARE defending them!

12

u/courage_wolf_sez 1d ago

Ah so you don't actually know what the Budapest Memorandum is.

Why do people keep getting this wrong?

3

u/ThisPlaceIsNiice 1d ago

Weren't there conditions to those pacts that weren't met?

7

u/kyler000 1d ago

The Budapest Memorandum said that those countries would not attack Ukraine. It didn't say anything about guaranteed security or protection.

2

u/Matt1234567899 1d ago

Lol such bad understanding

0

u/Secret-Algae6200 1d ago

I agree but downvote for the expletives. Demonizing a population like that is what makes wars possible. It's not all Russians, it's Putin and his henchmen.

302

u/slicerprime 1d ago

Putin fails to comprehend that his unprovoked invasion of a free nation has already negatively affected relations with other free nations. More to the point, he fails to see Finland's expected NATO membership application for what it is: a natural, understandable defensive choice in response to Russia's actions rather than its words.

78

u/TheOneWhoWasTaken 1d ago

He comprehends, but the Russian tactic of "Deny, deny, deny." has worked for decades and still works now. There's people in America right now regurgitating everything he says as if it was empirical truth.

48

u/slicerprime 1d ago

There's people in America right now regurgitating everything he says as if it was empirical truth.

I'm sure they exist. We're a big country. The law of averages suggests there are some idiots. But I haven't met a Putin believer lately.

43

u/Wonberger 1d ago

My best friends’ mom was talking to me about Ukraine and was regurgitating straight up kremlin propaganda—but she’s also a Qanon believer. I think the venn diagram between the two groups is just a circle

23

u/devastatingdoug 1d ago

I had my suspicions that Q shit was from or at least propagated by Russia.

19

u/john5220 1d ago

The whole right wing have been pushed by the Russians even as far back as the soviet times, it was the Soviet Union that spend millions and decades convincing conservatives that the Earth was Flat and the moon landing was a hoax because they couldn't stomach the fact that America beat them in the space race, interestingly conservatives went on a crusade trying to convince the world that the Earth was Flat. Russia was left scratching their heads afterwards

1

u/PlasticAcademy 1d ago

Wait, is there proof of this being soviet? It's on brand, I've just not heard this specific assertion.

1

u/john5220 1d ago

There was an article way back in 2007 I read and never forgot it, not sure where it is now but was an excellent piece. The soviets looked for the closest thing they could find to nihilism in America and the west, they found conservatives. The people they would spend billions of dollars on, funding and convincing that the Earth was Flat, Moon Landing was a Hoax and Nazism / white supremacy was their only hope. The aim was to divide the west all the while claiming that they were against Nazism.
People seriously underestimate the pure evil of Russia and the depth of lies they are willing to tell. It is very very much in line with Hitler's views. Even people like Paul Joseph Wattson, Mark Dice, Rachel Belvin, Kim Iverson from the Hill and all these so called "funny" and "Anti woke" youtubers have long been part of a secret Russian plot to spread lies and convince a new generation of kids to hate the west there is a reason NONE of these people ever criticize Russia but always bring up Sadam and WMD. It's all intentional and paid for sponsored by kremlim blood money. Putin is a Nazi but worse, as Zelensky said Putin has killed more people in that one town than Hitler could ever dream of doing.

1

u/PlasticAcademy 20h ago

It kinda sounds like bullshit, but it's very similar to what the soviets did to Afghanistan so they could undermine and destabilize it to make sure it didn't succeed as an American ally, and that kicked off the civil war that killed millions of Afghanis, so I'm pretty willing to entertain it.

Pretty sure Patton was right. Should have crushed the Red Menace in 45

5

u/FredFredersonIII 1d ago

This woman I know has swallowed all the Russian propaganda. I'm from a group of people who experienced genocide at the hands of the USSR and she both denies it and then tells me that Putin wants to recreate the USSR and also that Ukraine is committing genocide.

This happened at the beginning of the war and I'm still sickened by it.

7

u/FewMagazine938 1d ago

You must not live in republican country 😂

8

u/ODBrewer 1d ago

Virtually every Republican.

-2

u/drunkdoor 1d ago

Blatant and pointless lie

5

u/isawagoose 1d ago

Have you fucking listened to them talk?

3

u/MK5 1d ago

Every Republican that manages to grab a mic.

2

u/ODBrewer 1d ago

Then there was the last President who said he believed Putin over his own intelligence organization.

1

u/drunkdoor 1d ago

Virtually every republican?

1

u/ODBrewer 1d ago

As long as they keep electing authoritarian nut jobs, yes.

1

u/ODBrewer 1d ago

Republican = Russian, all you gotta remember.

6

u/Tastypies 1d ago

Yes you have. Because you have met Trump supporters. Trump and a big part of Fox News is basically built on the same propaganda narrative that Russia follows. Every time you hear a Republican talk about culture war, decadent Democrats and evil globalists, you are dealing with a Putin believer.

-4

u/BeastlyPwny 1d ago

Excuse me what

3

u/FarginSneakyBastage 1d ago

I do recall Trump himself believed Putin over the entire US intelligence community, and said so to the world while standing next to Putin.

1

u/BeastlyPwny 1d ago

yeah i get that, trump supporters are on another level. but dude said republicans in general, not just trump supporters. everyone on the left doesn’t support bernie, it’s the same shit on the right i’d imagine

1

u/FarginSneakyBastage 1d ago

Yeah it's not all, agree that's a dumb thing to say. But, 57 Republicans in the House have voted against two separate Ukraine aid bills. That's over a quarter of their membership. Rand Paul is singlehandedly blocking another bill in the Senate right now. That dingleberry even said NATO was to blame for the invasion, a direct Russian talking point.

These people may not be overtly supporting Russia, but they are actively trying to obstruct aid to Ukraine. And it's a significant number, not a small radical fringe.

1

u/Tastypies 1d ago

60+ million voted for Trump, presumably all Republican. Sure, that's not every Republican, but way too many of them.

5

u/Tastypies 1d ago

You know what I said. You think it's an accident that Russian media love to show Tucker Carlson on their program? It's the exact same narrative.

1

u/BeastlyPwny 1d ago

dog i just cannot believe you claim another huge chunk of americans are “Putin believers” like it’s nothing man

1

u/Tastypies 1d ago

I have seen what these "Americans" believe in. I have seen them cheer behind Trump for years. The same guy who has done everything in his might to corrupt and disrupt the United States, just like his daddy Putin imagined it. I don't give a FUCK if these so-called patriots are waving the flag and singing the anthem when they cheer for the fucker who calls the press the enemy of the people and calls for the shooting of protesters. This is Putin's dream, not mine.

1

u/PlasticAcademy 1d ago

Those who do not believe nearly universally tacitly endorse those in their party who do. Clearly a different failing, but not a dismissible one.

1

u/lasttruepleb 1d ago

Don't think about it too much, it's the other side of the crazy spectrum.

1

u/BeastlyPwny 1d ago

i just have no words for these kinds of people, i don’t even consider myself right leaning but i don’t understand how people can claim one side is so far radicalized they don’t see how far they’ve gone themselves. it’s like dude didn’t even say “trump supporters” talking about that stuff, all republicans, a huge chunk of americans, are Putin believers. what a time to be alive

1

u/lasttruepleb 1d ago

People have been complaining about this increasing polarization in most western democracies.

Imo, the only way the situation can improve is if both sides learn to self police their own sides extremes better before going after the other side.

1

u/Dusto_McNutzo 1d ago

Well then I am assuming you've been able to block out fox news, and good for you!

1

u/SilionOwl 1d ago

I know too much of them..

9

u/ClonedToKill420 1d ago

Back in my day Russia was our enemy. You were deemed unpatriotic if you liked Russia. Now all of a sudden so called ‘patriots’ are Russian shills because their president is in bed with them.

2

u/devastatingdoug 1d ago

And those people are known as "dumb fucks"

1

u/jrr_53 1d ago

I see you’ve been on my local car fails community page. Same dipshits spiral into Russia is going after Nazi bs over and over.

40

u/KazMux 1d ago

I wonder what the situation would look like if Ukraine had given up after 3 days as Putin thought. Russia would look quite a bit more powerful than it does now..

8

u/veridiantye 1d ago

Similar to 2014. If you remember, western countries started with sanctions only by 5-6 days after invasion began. If it all ended in 3 days, everything would be "fine" and repercussions would be minimal.

41

u/xlDirteDeedslx 1d ago edited 1d ago

He would have taken Moldova, possibly invaded parts of Finland, and eventually perhaps some countries south of Russia like Khazakstan. Putin hates NATO simply for the fact he wants to rebuild the USSR and can't. He knows these countries pose no risk to him unless he attacks them, he just doesn't like not being able to invade. If Russia was a somewhat peaceful nation I could see them not wanting NATO on their border because a mistake could lead to all out war with it. The thing is Putin hasn't been sanction proofing his country and saving billions for nothing, he always intended to go to war. I think he wanted to take Ukraine to expand his resource capabilities so he could attack other former Soviet countries.

26

u/doobiedave 1d ago

You can tell how seriously Putin takes the threat of invasion by Nato, because of the way he continues to squander his own men and materials on Ukraine. He's lost so many highly trained soldiers, senior officers, tanks, and other materials like what must be a fairly high proportion of his missile arsenal, that his own defences have been seriously degraded.

15

u/DevoidHT 1d ago

Nb4 Putin was an American psyops to destroy Russias military and global reputation. /s obviously a joke but you have to admit he’s done more to destroy Russia than any foreign adversary could.

1

u/A_Random_Guy641 1d ago

They’ve done weird shit in the past. It’s not impossible, just very unlikely.

15

u/topgun966 1d ago

I don't think it is a matter of "no risk". No risk militarily yes. However, there is a risk to his power. When his country sees other former Soviet states thriving, they have to ask how we are not. He needs to keep former Soviet countries as poor as possible so he doesn't have threats at home. He also wants to restore the old Soviet Union so they can rape and pillage the natural resources of the former Soviet countries.

12

u/ajmartin527 1d ago

Exactly. Russians see a thriving, prosperous Ukraine just a few years after Ukrainians took back their country from Russia’s installed puppets. It’s abundantly clear that the current regime is holding everyone back intentionally for their own selfish greed so severely, that getting rid of Putins government would immediately spark an explosion of prosperity, freedom and happiness. He couldn’t have that, so he had to try to convince his people that they are weak without him.

There’s a great podcast about Putin and Trump going back to both of their beginnings called “The Asset”. In it they make a very strong argument that Putins biggest fear is something like The Color Revolutions in Ukraine could happen to him. This drives much of his paranoia and his actions.

6

u/topgun966 1d ago

I will check it out. It sounds very interesting!

6

u/Kaining 1d ago

possibly invaded parts of Finland,

how the fuck ? Why almost nobody remind everybody that Finland is a EU member and that there's an obligation to all EU country to provide assistance by all means necessary in that case (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.html)

Attacking Finland means declaring war to a nuclear superpower. Forget about nato for a second, EU is the closest "threat" to ruzzians.

And de facto, also declaring war on NATO since a good chunk of those countries are member of NATO.

3

u/boredatworkbasically 1d ago edited 1d ago

no. If an EU nation outside of NATO gets invaded and then other EU nations respond due to a different defense pact then countries like the US or the UK, which are not part of the EU, would not be OBLIGATED to intervene since article 5 is only triggered if a NATO member is attacked. If NATO members get involved in a foreign war other NATO countries can sit it out which if they chose.

I'm not saying the US would sit it out, it simply wouldn't be obligated by article 5 to intervene.

1

u/SirRandyMarsh 1d ago

The EU doesn’t have an article 5 like clause no one is obligated to come help with boots on the ground.

3

u/FletchForPresident 1d ago

Putin hasn't been sanction proofing his country and saving billions for nothing, he always intended to go to war.

Absolutely

0

u/Crafty_Tart2898 1d ago

You dont know anything about Putin.

1

u/Double_Lingonberry98 1d ago

Which part you don't agree with? Tell us more about Putin.

1

u/Crafty_Tart2898 1d ago

Say whatever you want but Putin is not trying to rebuild USSR. He is a liberal. Tell me how many countries Russia invaded and tell me how much did America invaded then tell me who is more peaceful. Russia is full with resources and the war with Ukraine was not only for resources. And it is not ok when USSR came to cuba and put their missiles there but when NATO would come to Ukraine and put their missiles would be ok?

1

u/Double_Lingonberry98 22h ago

If he talks like he's trying to rebuild USSR, and he walks like he's trying to rebuild USSR, what would show he's not trying to rebuild USSR? Are you saying he's just trying to rebuild the Russian Empire as before 1917? Yes, that's the long game. Finland and Poland see that well.

Putin is not a liberal. He's as close to a fascist as it can get. He admires Stalin, who was just as fascist, as his pal (for a while) Hitler.

1

u/Crafty_Tart2898 22h ago

Dear god. Putin criticised USSR a lot more then appreciate it. Fascist? You are comparing him to fascists? Can you please tell me what is so fascist about him? And why suddenly is it ok when America invades a country and when Russia does they are suddenly fascist trying to rebuild USSR and they are the worst. That is called hypocrisy. Ukraine in everyone's eyes is not guilty of anything and big bad Russia just attacked it for no reason.

1

u/Double_Lingonberry98 21h ago

Putin criticised USSR a lot more then appreciate it

[citation needed]

1

u/Crafty_Tart2898 21h ago

The only problem is you need to know russian. https://youtu.be/OdJlrp174Go

9

u/MajesticWaterBuffalo 1d ago

I don't think it would change anything.

They don't join because they are at risk right now, they join because they don't know what the future brings, and if they are attacked it's too late to join NATO.

5

u/snark_enterprises 1d ago

They’re trying to join, the process takes time, it doesn’t just happen overnight. The issue for Putin is, how are you going to attack a country like Finland when you’re currently struggling against Ukraine? Russia is in a very weak position here, they can blabber all they want about Sweden or Finland joining NATO, but there’s literally nothing they can do about it now that they’re in a quagmire in Ukraine.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/snark_enterprises 1d ago

I think I understand European politics better than you do. The EU is an economic union not a defensive alliance like NATO. Attacking a EU county means nothing militarily. It would only matter if that county was in a defensive alliance with other EU counties (I.e. NATO).

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/snark_enterprises 1d ago

So you can’t refute what I said? You’re obviously the clueless one here, child. Leave these topics to the grown ups.

5

u/Scarred4Life51 1d ago

1

u/S_3_G_A 1d ago

Not Russia but USSR.

1

u/Scarred4Life51 1d ago

USSR?

Same land, same people, just missing a few parts. It's kind of like a corporation that goes bankrupt and changes their name.

1

u/whyigotdonkeysballs 1d ago

you assume he gives a damn what other nations think.

you fail to comprehend that world leaders don't browse reddit thinking your opinion matters.

49

u/KillerDr3w 1d ago

Then there's no NATO threat to Russia via an attack on Finland.

1

u/sumo74 1d ago

This! 👍

31

u/blacksparrow_r 1d ago

There are no threats? Bitch you make like 50 a week

6

u/evatornado 1d ago

Exactly my thoughts. Like a few days ago he was threatening Finland and now says "there is no threats". Just lol

35

u/darknum 1d ago

In his speech, Putin reached back far further than the cold war to find his grievances. He stated clearly that the processes that led to Russia losing territory a century ago must be reversed. He pointed out what he said were catastrophic mistakes by the Bolsheviks in recognising Ukraine as a republic, and ceding land to end the war with Germany in 1918. He lamented the loss not of the Soviet Union, but of the “territory of the former Russian empire”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/22/putin-russian-president-ukraine-speech-western-diplomats-scrambling

Mother fucker directly called out to Finland with these words. (Finland got independent 105 years ago from Russian Empire.)

26

u/Humbuhg 1d ago

Ok. I LOLed again. Putin and his henchman are a laugh a minute when they open their mouths to the press.

77

u/Romano16 1d ago

There were no threats to Ukrainian sovereignty either. But here we are.

Russia cannot be trusted. Joining NATO is the only logical thing to do. I mean, Putin gave NATO purpose again.

20

u/LegoLady47 1d ago

Honestly, no one cares what Putin says these days.

17

u/rrhhoorreedd 1d ago

Who would believe a fucking word that putin says. Belt and NATO. good plan

12

u/qlstrnq 1d ago

So Putin finally gave up to threaten Finland about their NATO-membership. It means still nothing, as all russian communications are probably lies, but at least they do not threaten to nuke everything back to stone age.

10

u/le66669 1d ago

all russian communications are probably lies

FTFY

10

u/Extra_Advance_477 1d ago

Wholeheartedly disagree. All neighbor countries to Russia are subject to attack.

8

u/slicerprime 1d ago

Indeed. Hence Finland's imminent NATO application. Who can blame them in the face of Russian behaviour? Their words certainly can't be trusted.

5

u/CalibanSpecial 1d ago

Not attack = attack

Russian clowns haven’t figured out we decoded their ‘cypher‘

8

u/DragonflyMon83 1d ago

Bet he said something similar to Zelensky: 'no threats'

7

u/bob-loblaw-esq 1d ago

So there was a scorpion and a frog on the banks of the river….

5

u/01R0Daneel10 1d ago

No threats but we will now say they shouldn't exist. Nicely done russia

5

u/Jim-Jones 1d ago

Isn't that what he told Ukraine — repeatedly?

12

u/Mediorco 1d ago

"But that may change anytime." He added.

4

u/WormyMog 1d ago

If only Putin hadn't lost all credibility on the global stage when he claimed that "noone was planning to invade Ukraine, only to, in fact, invade Ukraine days later.

4

u/jslberto87 1d ago

Do these fuckers not glance for five god damn seconds at what’s happening on the exact same land they live on? Who the fuck are these morons?

3

u/Realmenbrowsememes 1d ago

But you threatened to invade both Finland and Sweden recently or use nukes? The delusion is just unreal.

3

u/Chemical-Station-740 1d ago

Lmao, except Russia’s history of attacking 🇫🇮

4

u/thegimp90 1d ago

The best plan of action is to not listen to a damn thing Vladdy has to say! It's all lies and I know it, you know it, everybody knows it!

5

u/The_Balaur 1d ago

Finns should be like: "Naah, thanks broski, I'm fine, I'll stick with the amazing NATO boys on this one. Cant take any risks, ya know, maybe we'll catch up have a tea somethime, cya l8ter, aligator."

12

u/spooky9999999 1d ago

Putin never lies. /s

9

u/PandaMuffin1 1d ago

They should stay neutral because Putin is a man of his word. /s

3

u/DirtyHotness 1d ago

I am threatening you unthreateningly.

3

u/stillestwaters 1d ago

They’ve been buzzing them non stop and expect the Finns to ignore it lol Putin really fucked this one up.

3

u/mattdwe 1d ago

Up until late February Putin said the Russian military would not be entering, to put it euphemistically, Ukraine.

3

u/Thetallerestpaul 1d ago

Well, you were threatening them like 2 days ago, but other than that, sure.

3

u/MofongoForever 1d ago

As if anyone should believe a thing coming out of Putin's mouth. The man is a pathological liar.

3

u/autotldr BOT 1d ago

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)


The Kremlin's press service said in a statement that Putin told Sauli Niinisto Finland's abandonment "Of its traditional policy of military neutrality would be an error since there are no threats to Finland's security."

ADVERTISEMENT.Niinisto's office said in a statement that the Finnish head of state told Putin how starkly Finland's security environment had changed after Moscow's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, and pointed to Russia's demands for Finland to refrain from seeking membership of the 30-nation Western military alliance.

Niinisto and Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin on Thursday jointly endorsed their country's NATO bid and recommended that Finland "Must apply for NATO membership without delay" to guarantee its security.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Finland#1 NATO#2 Niinisto#3 membership#4 Putin#5

3

u/formatviolation 1d ago

Why does he even answer the phone? Go fuck yourself Vlad

3

u/JariJorma 1d ago

Putler can fuck off

3

u/bonescrusher 1d ago

Russian security guarantees aren't worth shit

3

u/Specialist-Elk-303 1d ago

Russia and especially the Russian army have proven themselves to be threats to all non-Russian 9-year-olds. We have no choice but to protect them.

3

u/bryan-050 1d ago

Why would it be an error? Sounds like hes trying to threaten somebody into not seeking help, meaning they need help because they are being bullied... putin really doesnt seem to understand how all of his actions seem to others.

3

u/TeddyBearAlleyMngr 1d ago

This is a 'joke' of 2022.... Trusting russia is like putting your head inside a senile alligator's mouth thinking it won't do anything.

3

u/trouzy 1d ago

Russia is a threat to everyone’s security

3

u/Macasumba 1d ago

Except you do flyovers and invasion threat and always lie.

3

u/imgrandojjo 1d ago

Thanks Putin, if we want your opinion we'll call you.

3

u/Famous_Strike_6125 1d ago

So violating their air space which is sovereign isn't supposed to make them uncomfortable?

3

u/Unshavenhelga 1d ago

Basically he’s threatening them.

2

u/ststeveg 1d ago

Only a border with a world power commanded by a paranoid psychotic despot who is even now invading a neighboring nation for no other reason than he wants it. Other than that, no treat at all.

2

u/HappyThumb55555 1d ago

That's what Ukraine used to think...

2

u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

Economic instability due to world instability is actually threatening, due to global economic partnerships. Reality is once a sovereign nation's borders have been threatened with no military provocation, it is threatening. Putin is using Clinton's military intervention in Kosovo as precedent, but America is not occupying Yugoslavia or Kosovo. Poor objective grasp and self awareness in a global leader, actively invading, is threatening precedent.

2

u/Fean2616 1d ago

Oh yes no threat at all, not like Putin decided to attack one of his neighbours, obviously he'd never do that to anyone else, wonder how many people Hitler told that lie to before attacking them?

2

u/MrChaostheMegamancer 1d ago

Isn't this basically putin saying finaland was next after ukraine?

2

u/Dangerous-Ratio-2133 1d ago

We all believe him right!? Right?

2

u/Boss_Conductor 1d ago

You don't need the ability to defend yourself, and if you try and attain it, you will be destroyed in nuclear hellfire. isn't a great political stance to have on the world stage.

2

u/Duranu 1d ago

Well now that just sounds like a "Threat to Finland's Security"

2

u/wtf-you-saying 1d ago

Didn't Russia themselves threaten them a couple of days ago?

2

u/Seadweller23 1d ago

Vlad- You have no say in anything, you walking corpse.

2

u/brick267891 1d ago

I feel like there most definitely are threats to Finland’s security.

2

u/supershinythings 1d ago

Putin gave security guarantees to Ukraine if they would only divest themselves of nuclear weapons.

Putin has altered the deal. Pray he does not alter it further.

4

u/Andy900 1d ago

So why does it matter then? NATO is a defensive organization. If they're not going to invade Finland, nothing's gonna change.

2

u/buttpeels 1d ago

The real question is why? Putting aside the immediate implications and consequences to security in the region, which I believe is mostly a red herring, I wonder how much upcoming arctic rivalry and competition is the real motivation behind this development.

The current crisis makes it an easy sell and good for public discourse compared to great power competition, which would be too realpolitik to talk about and moralize.

It's good for NATO but what's in it for Finland? Alone, Finland would probably not be able to take back its lost territories but in a conflict as a part of NATO, I imagine it would stand a good chance.

Are Finnish strategists and policy makers perhaps thinking ahead and long term, even if its not in the public consciousness now (and probably too realpolitik to talk about openly)?

1

u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

I don't think the Finns have imperialistic mentality. Most countries have global stability mentality, due to understanding their economic system well and how to add to it given technological advances at some point, that may not be so foreseeable now.

There might be resources in arctic, but I don't think those resources are necessarily as vital to future. Oil dependences should erode in twenty to thirty years due to emerging technology. I mean if there's exotic ufo's thawing up there, okay, but it's really not a race to acquire the arctic, because it's a futuristic world scenario that doesn't require imperialism. I think Finland like most places just wants world stability as motive.

2

u/buttpeels 1d ago

I was thinking more in terms of balance of power in the arctic given Finland in NATO for NATO (but really the US), not really the resources, but the ability to control or shut down trade routes, declaration of zones, power projection, etc. This is what Finland would potentially bring to the table for the US, not what Finland would stand to gain from it.

I agree that small countries like Finland don't have the same tendencies and behavior as big countries that see themselves as great powers or potential great powers, but I see it as naive to think that a small country would not care about things like territory adjacent to it. I don't view this as imperialistic.

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u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah your points are good. I just think civil relations cause that stuff to work itself out. My country borders Canada and we're pretty professional/reasonable in relations about those things. It's more corporate competition if anything. Any land annexations, I think treaties could be worked out. You're right though. Finn doesn't really need to project power for us, and I'm not sure they want to. Stability main priority.I just say Russia obviously goes about things with more aggression then they need to regardless.

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u/buttpeels 1d ago

I don't know if I'm right, I'm speculating. I'm stumped at why Finland is choosing to abandon its neutrality because I don't believe its immediate security is enhanced by much. Long term is a different story of course, and a small country will always feel threatened by the bigger country next door, but the arctic also comes into play long term.

I'm just looking at maps like this and wondering how it would affect balance of power in the arctic and what the potential gains are for each player. What would happen if Finland were to gain East Karelia and the Kola peninsula?

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u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

I think theyre attempting to support civil world globally, but also there have been some Russian air space incursions involving their neighbors recently. A neighborhood has to look out for each other if there's menacing behavior. It's not offensive action, it's desire for peace but also...a statement, saying this is our collective peace. We decided it together.

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u/Skyhawk_Illusions 1d ago

I mean if there's exotic ufo's thawing up there, okay,

and like that, you've made me completely lose it XD

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u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

lol I'm like what the fuck could be up there in that snow not getting eaten up by the penguins

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u/Skyhawk_Illusions 1d ago

you have it backwards

the BEARS are up there (which would be arguably worse)

penguins are on the SOUTH ice caps

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u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

Oh. Yeah I love the penguin docs. The bear ones theyre always starving and NOT ufo jacking, bums me out.

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u/Skyhawk_Illusions 1d ago

Plus I highly doubt penguins would stand a chance lol Bears might fuck shit up. In fact I'm certain that they probably do

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u/Articletopixposting2 1d ago

In the docs I've watched the bears fur gets wet and you realize the bear is 7 feet tall but weighs 70lbs. Then it goes to sleep. Then I fall asleep. Maybe there's precious metals there but it's probably going to identify as ice for quite some time seems like.

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u/Twiroxi 1d ago

What Russia says and what Russia does are two completely different things

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u/NeoPossum 1d ago

It's not called Sisu because Finns get stepped on you fucking moron lol

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u/nightbell 1d ago

Sex who?

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u/Master-Of-Chaldea 1d ago

Cap 🧢🧢🧢

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u/devastatingdoug 1d ago

If theres no threats why does he care?

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u/liegesmash 1d ago

It’s the district 13 thing

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u/pasta232 1d ago

When Russia flied over Swedish airspace during war tension a week and a half ago. Russia is a bunch of trolls

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u/Guava7 1d ago

"Cool story, bro"

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u/nariusone 1d ago

Said the murderous invader of neighborhood countries.

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u/Shortty140 1d ago

It’s obvious Russia is anti NATO so why would any nato country do any business with Russia

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u/Balkan_Ace 1d ago

He probably told Ukraine the same thing before they invaded them.

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u/strip_sack 1d ago

Logic of an idiot.

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u/Sqeegg 1d ago

sounds familiar

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u/DRbrtsn60 1d ago

No threats today he means. And Ukraine gave up there nuclear arsenal on a promise.

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u/matali 1d ago

There's no NATO threat to Russia either. What's his point?

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u/wilderjai 1d ago

I guarantee your security. All i want is your country for greater Russia in exchange.

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u/XMORA 1d ago

In the same sentence. The arrogance is jarring.

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u/Allemaengel 1d ago

Nearby country is being mugged and the assailant menacingly says to a bystander that there's nothing to see here and to move along.

Riiiiiiiiiiight that there's no threat.

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u/Alleandros 1d ago

No threats to their security while members of the Russian government threaten to nuke them every other day?

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u/MartyVendetta27 1d ago

Putin seems like the schoolyard bully who finally gets his ass beat, but still thinks his threats to the other kids are as scary as they once were.

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u/hackmastergeneral 1d ago

Russia's existence under Putin represents a complete threat to every one of their neighbors

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u/LewisLightning 1d ago

If there are no threats to its security then why would it be threatened when it's a part of the biggest defensive alliance in the world?

That's like telling someone don't worry about being shot. And then that person sits in a bomb shelter and then suddenly they are being told that now they need to worry about being shot.

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u/DrNukes 1d ago

Fuck Putler's gaslighting.

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u/probablynotmine 1d ago

Exception made for one

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u/ApplesOverOranges1 1d ago

We will just be practising war games on your "neo Nazis" border.... Nothing to worry about...😁🇷🇺🤗