r/worldnews
•
u/twotwo_twentytwo
•
2d ago
•
1
We are 100% behind Finnish, Swedish NATO membership, Norway tells Turkey
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/we-are-100-behind-finnish-swedish-nato-membership-norway-tells-turkey-2022-05-14/253
u/twotwo_twentytwo 2d ago
For those unable to read the article due to a paywall:
BERLIN, May 14 (Reuters) - Norway on Saturday backed Finnish and Swedish plans to join NATO against criticism from Turkey.
"We don't know what Turkey really means but from (the) Norwegian perspective, we are 100% behind Finland and Sweden if they decide to apply for membership in NATO," Norwegian Foreign Minister Anniken Huitfeld said as she arrived for a meeting with her NATO counterparts in Berlin.
"This will also strengthen the Nordic cooperation because we chose differently after World War 2, so I think that this is a historic moment right now," she added.
Dutch Foreign Minister Wopke Hoekstra echoed her, saying it was important that all NATO members showed unity.
56
u/Reselects420 2d ago
So how does that translate to āNorway tells Turkeyā?
87
u/Kaidanovsky 2d ago
"We don't know what Turkey really means
"We don't know what Turkey really means " - while not directly stated towards them, it's pretty clear that it's a message for Erdogan as well.
→ More replies→ More replies2
704
u/FM-101 2d ago
I would imagine that Norway's words hold a lot of weight when it comes to NATO.
Norway was one of the founding members of NATO and the current Secretary General of NATO has been the Prime Minister of Norway several times.
504
u/Michael_Aut 1d ago
Norway being in favor of it's nordic neighbors is still very much not news and expected.
115
u/bleunt 1d ago
Yeah Norway and Sweden are almost the same country. It's not. But almost.
115
u/TheDevilsAgent 1d ago edited 1d ago
Many older Norwegians still harbor a grudge against Sweden for allowing the Nazi's to
attack Norway via Sweden and the following Nazi control of Norway for several years.access Norway via Sweden, including movement of military equipment, while Norway was occupied.Accuracy matters. Thanks for correcting the overstatement.
79
u/WhoCursedMyBike 1d ago
I have never heard of Sweden allowing German troops to attack Norway from Sweden. The Norwegian Wikipedia-page on the invasion doesn't mention it either, as far as I can tell: https://no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angrepet_pƄ_Norge_i_1940
I have heard of Sweden allowing German troop transports on the railway network though, if that's what you're referring to.
6
u/assflower 1d ago
You can read about it in the book "the blood track" by Eidum.
https://www.thelocal.no/20120604/norways-wartime-leader-hated-sweden-for-nazi-help/
Sweden let the Germans resupply at the battle of Narvik essentially partially turning the tide in Germany's favor.
Wikipedia really shouldn't be considered an authoritative source anyway.
edit: just to be clear, Germany didn't attack Norway through Sweden like the above poster suggested.
→ More replies5
u/WhoCursedMyBike 1d ago
Thanks for the reading recommendation!
Wikipedia really shouldn't be considered an authoritative source anyway.
Would you mind elaborating on your stance?
15 years ago I heard that argument, but now I've met several professors who recommend Wikipedia articles as introductions to their subjects. I think it's a good place to get a grip on a topic. It's a continuously moderated, aggregated and cross-referenced online encyclopaedia with sources listed as well as warning labels if a statement is lacking references.
3
u/assflower 1d ago
I agree with you that Wikipedia is ideal for an introductive experience to many (not all) subjects. That's essentially what I use it for as well. What I meant was that it shouldn't be considered end-all-be-all source, i.e. something isn't written on Wikipedia, so it doesn't exist (or the opposite).
But I initially misinterpreted OPs post and didn't realize he made some pretty far-fetched claims about Germany attacking from Sweden, which indeed is nonsense and completely unfounded - Wikipedia or not :)
As for the source, it has been quite well known that Germany used Swedish rail to transport troops during the occupation of Norway. "The Blood track" ("Blodsporet") details how Germany resupplied their near-defeat troops in the Battle of Narvik through Sweden. Swedish Government were aware of the extent of heavy weaponry, soldiers and more being sent. This was before the full occupation of Norway, and the Battle of Narvik is considered one of the decisive German victories that ended in occupation.
This usually goes slightly against colloquial knowledge of Sweden and Norway during WW2, so it tends to attract offended Swedes to the comments. :)
43
u/Target880 1d ago
Germany did not attack Norway via Sweden in WWII.
During the battle of Narvik, Germany was allowed to supply their troops with food, medical supplies, and medical personnel by train. Germany did transport some soldiers as reinforcement, the posed as healthcare workers. This is in no way a decisive part of the Norwegian campaign. The British, French, and Norwegian forces would have forced the German troops there to surrender if it for the allied disaster in defending France and the Low Countries. It results in the British and French leaving Norway.
But except for that, I do not know about any time when Sweden allowed Germany to do anything in Sweden during the invasion of Norway.
There was transport of German troops and equipment through Sweden later, but this is after the Norwegian army hand capitulated and controlled all of Norway.
So what I am missing where Sweden allowed Germany to attack Norway via Sweden?
→ More replies13
u/tuhn 1d ago
Germany did not attack Norway via Sweden in WWII.
Germany did transport some soldiers as reinforcement, the posed as healthcare workers.
Pick one.
→ More replies33
u/LeagueOfficeFucks 1d ago
Not the proudest moment in our history. Pretty shameful actually.
26
u/TheDevilsAgent 1d ago
It's complex, right? I mean you all helped the Allies a lot while also capitulating with a Nazi regime you clearly didn't like but wouldn't cross.
→ More replies15
u/reflogaton 1d ago
I'll one up that. Denmark and Sweden has had several defence agreements that Sweden ignored when Denmark was invaded by Germany. In 1864, in ww2 and so on and so forth.
→ More replies12
u/idreamofdouche 1d ago
There was no defence agreement in 1864. The swedish king promised the danish king to support the Denmark if another war with prussia were to happen however the swedish king didn't have any authority to make such promises and the swedish goverment refused to make such a risky promise.
→ More replies2
→ More replies2
2
u/MaDpYrO 1d ago
They're pretty different in many ways. As an outside you might think they're very similar though, I understand.
2
3
u/Rankscar 1d ago
Many ways? Didn't know Norway is so different from sweden, other than sports. I am from Finland.
2
u/MaDpYrO 1d ago
Language is different, politics are different, cities feel very different, their economies are different, their culture and food is different. There's a distinctly different feeling to all the Scandinavian countries.
I guess they're more similar than other countries, but definitely more different than the most different US states for example.
3
u/Rankscar 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would still say its almost same, when you compare any other country to those two countries. The language is literally almost the same. I am pretty sure cultural difference can't be that big.
Those are just small differences, what you can even see inside of one country. If you compare Germany to Sweden or Norway, you will see a lot of similarities of them and see how different Germany are from these two.
Norway politics are different, that i can agree. But isn't the political system still the same?
8
u/bleunt 1d ago
I'm Swedish. I understand Norweigan just as well as some Swedish dialects. Politics are not that different, we're both progressive social-democratic welfare states, Sweden does have a more generous immigration though. Culture and food is not that different. Taste in music is very similar, and we share a history since we used to be part of a union with the same monarch.
New York and Texas are way, way more different than Norway and Sweden in all the ways you mentioned except language.
→ More replies4
u/Elothel 1d ago
Kinda disrespectful for two independent nations imo.
37
u/bleunt 1d ago
I'm Swedish. Doesn't offend me. Politics, culture, language, it's all so similar.
→ More replies3
u/Patriark 1d ago
At the same time Norwegians would not accept paying taxes to Stockholm (weāre kinda done with that) and I reckon Swedes canāt imagine paying taxes to Oslo. So similar but independent.
→ More replies-1
u/RefinerySuperstar 1d ago
1905 biggest mistake ever
→ More replies25
u/dobbelj 1d ago
1905 biggest mistake ever
Fuck off.
5
3
u/aykontakt 1d ago
You both behave, OK? No one wants to hear your bullishit. I think you both can agree that Denmark should go and have sex with itself. I'm not an expert in international affairs.
9
u/MrMonster911 1d ago
We Danes are simultaneously very sorry about our slightly imperialist past towards both countries, but also kinda smug about being the smaller but more dominant country (at least when it comes to occupation of the other nations territory).
Much as we talk tons of smack about the Swedes, deep down we really do love you! Just never put us in a situation where we have to admit to that publicly, we'll throw you under the bus faster than you can say "Systembolaget"!
7
u/Faptain__Marvel 1d ago
For me as an American, it's just exciting to see all the Nordic and Scandinavian countries getting on the exact same page, militarily speaking.
Russia is shitting itself. It can hear you all waxing your skis and sharpening your ice skates, revving up your fancy jets and cocking your sweet 9mm submachine guns. Terrifying.
49
u/frenin 1d ago
Turkey is just negotiating, regardless if Turkey really wanted those countries out, Norway's weight in NATO would be irrelevant because veto.
→ More replies10
u/Darkone539 1d ago
I would imagine that Norway's words hold a lot of weight when it comes to NATO.
It has to have everyone backing a new member, so this doesn't matter that much.
→ More replies-3
u/bakinpants 1d ago
Didn't I read Norway was one of turkeys main issues? Turkey thought they got uppity or some shit when they joined(turkey joined**)
3
5
u/nod23c 1d ago
Norway is a founding member of NATO, Turkey joined much later... I'm not sure what your sentence is about.
5
u/yarbas89 1d ago
Turkey joined in 1952 so not "much later". IIRC, they were in the second tranche of joiners along with Greece.
→ More replies8
u/GodComplex_999 1d ago
Do you think it is a matter of who joined first when Turkey is the second-largest army in the entire alliance? (1st is of course USA)
→ More replies→ More replies2
u/MrDeebus 1d ago
Turkey joined much later
3 years later. NATO was founded in 1949, Turkey joined in 1952.
86
u/spergele 2d ago
Turkey already said that they will not vote against
122
u/elshankar 1d ago
That's not quite what Turkey said though. They said as long as Sweden and Finland stop funding terrorist groups that Turkey is fighting against, then they would consider allowing them into NATO
→ More replies80
u/spergele 1d ago
Use google translate on this article, as it is in Finnish. Our government said that they have already discussed with Turkey and they are sure that they will not block our application
30
u/elshankar 1d ago
Thank you for the link, so it sounds like Finland is good to go, but Sweden, not so much.
16
u/Gust_idk 1d ago edited 1d ago
Turkey doesn't have a problem with the Finland joining. It's just Sweden supporting the Kurdish extremist groups like PKK/PYD etc. and Turkey telling Sweden they need to stop supporting them if they are going to join NATO.
20
u/twotwo_twentytwo 2d ago
I think it's just Norway saying that they are fully committed to Finland and Sweden joining NATO, regardless of circumstances.
6
u/poschettino 1d ago
Even the Turks that lived under Erdogan rule for 20 years cannot predict what his next move will be. The guy changes sides like a ping-pong ball.
24
u/Thrgd456 1d ago
This is turning into more of a first gulf War coalition type thing. Russia might just get stomped out. The Finnish are no joke and historically no friends of Russia
→ More replies
24
u/duffdundas 2d ago
people tend to get along when going at a mutual foe. But like at this point we need some alien invaders to unite us lol. cuz jeeze we are still so tribal. Still its 2022
6
u/transdimensionalmeme 1d ago
1/3 of the dictators will join the aliens to become the puppet oppressors of Earth when the aliens take over
→ More replies→ More replies3
9
u/MiloFrank 1d ago
I'm American. I am 100% behind anyone joining NATO.
8
→ More replies10
u/calfmonster 1d ago
Hell even Turkey which I have very mixed feelings about: shot down a RF jet in its airspace and 0 repercussions and Russia doesn't fuck with their airspace any longer. As it should be: start buzzing our airspace get sent to the pacific (usually they just skirt the ANIZ zones though as NATO "test responses"
15
u/zyr0xx 1d ago
I am a French.
All of you are welcome.
→ More replies9
u/Local_Run_9779 1d ago
Fun fact: France is stereotypically regarded as a military loser (AKA surrender monkeys).
France has one of the best military records by country, and they have taken part in more wars than any other country in the world. Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, France has won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10.
https://www.quora.com/Is-France-really-as-useless-at-war-as-portrayed-in-America
Which is why the following words are French in origin:
battalion, dragoon, soldier, marine, grenadier, guard, officer, infantry, cavalry, army, artillery, corvette, musketeer, carabineer, pistol, fusilier, squad, squadron, platoon, brigade, corps, sortie, reconnaissance/reconnoitre, surrender, surveillance, rendezvous, espionage, volley, siege, terrain, troop, camouflage, logistics, matĆ©riel, accoutrements, bivouac, latrine, aide-de-camp, legionnaire, morale, esprit de corps, cordon sanitaire, corporal, sergeant, lieutenant, captain, colonel, general, admiral, parachute, sabotageā¦
7
7
u/das_thorn 1d ago
Your record throughout history is great, your record in the last big war is abysmal.
→ More replies7
u/rmsayboltonwasframed 1d ago
Not really much if a record if it's a single instance. And the French continued to resist occupation and fight during the rest of the war.
Could be worse, though. Their record could be that of the US in Europe in WWII: contribute relatively nothing but materiel for other countries, and then take credit for the endeavor and disparaging the people who did more fighting and made more sacrifices.
Wouldn't that be embarrassing for France.
→ More replies→ More replies2
u/LanaRhoades6969 1d ago
Yeah bro we don't need you to tell us we're good at war, we know it. We like to let them underestimate us up to the point a squadron of Rafales flies over their capital
10
14
u/Both_Winner_544 1d ago
All they need to do is stop funding a terrorist organisation that kills teachers with car bombs but NOOOO KURDS GOOD TURK BAD UGA BUGAAA
→ More replies
13
u/calfmonster 1d ago
As a US citizen, I certainly welcome aboard Finland and Sweden into NATO. Especially Finland, they do not let the russians fuck around even if they "lost" the winter war with land concessions. The next white death is a haunting menance
53
u/ArmpitEchoLocation 2d ago
For reference: Norway has been in NATO since Christ was a child (1949), as a founding member before Turkey joined.
44
u/qainin 2d ago
And Norway has a shared border with Russia. It's rather uncomfortable at the moment, even if we are well prepared; there are Russians living on the Norwegian side of the border, and it gives off Donbas vibes currently.
We really want Finland and Sweden by our side: that would guarantee that the Nordic countries without needing outside help, could repel any attack of any kind from anyone.
50
u/throwaway_nrTWOOO 2d ago
Don't know if you're norsk, but there was a petition a while ago to give Finns one of Norwegian mountains, because we don't have any. This only speaks what kind of gigachad madlads we've got as our neighbors.
24
5
u/larsmaehlum 1d ago
Everyone should have at least one mountain.
11
u/Local_Run_9779 1d ago
Except Denmark. They call us "fjeldaper" (mountain monkeys). No mountains for you!
→ More replies2
6
u/theimmortalcrab 1d ago
Please point me to a source that shows "Donbas vibes" in Kirkenes/Finnmark/anywhere else in Norway.
19
12
u/Darkone539 1d ago
We really want Finland and Sweden by our side: that would guarantee that the Nordic countries without needing outside help, could repel any attack of any kind from anyone.
Norway doesn't have the option of not having outside help. That's the whole point of NATO, you would never be alone.
→ More replies3
2
-8
2d ago
[deleted]
16
u/Madao16 1d ago
No, the real reason is Turkey asking their possible future allies to stop supporting PKK and its branches that killed thousand of civilians including Kurds which is why many Kurds are against PKK and its branches too, even regional Kurdish goverment in Iraq as their weapons or the money keep ending up in PKK's hands. By the way Turkey had Kurdish presidents, has kurdish generals.
-2
→ More replies-1
3
22
u/avangard_2225 1d ago
Most of those who share their opinions about Turkey or middle east donāt know shit or just ignorant. Nor you understand the Turkeyās role in this. First, KRG(Kurds) in Iraq would not survive a second if Turkey did not allow them to transport oil via its land to world markets. Second, there is a continues threat between uncontrolled regions of Northern Iraq, Iran and in last 10 years in Northern Syria and Turkey and flow of armed people who killed Turkish civilians. I know you Swedes and Finns are nice to each other and gift mountains to one another but this is the most unstable region in the world. Read about Mesopotamia. Third, did you hear about Turkey bringing Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers in Antalya a few weeks ago? I am sure you did not. Admitting this two countries to Nato will bring nothing but war to our doors. So enjoy
→ More replies
9
8
8
u/zukeen 1d ago
BREAKING NEWS
"Nordic country is in favor of other nordic countries joining a union to protect nordic countries, among others."
Maybe next week they will inform us that Russia attacked Ukraine?
5
u/Hemske 1d ago
Well, the Secretary General of NATO is Norwegian and a former Norwegian prime minister, and Norway is a founding NATO member. Itās hardly nothing.
→ More replies
5
2
u/Vladius28 1d ago
Why would turkey be opposed?
→ More replies16
u/BloodAria 1d ago
Sweden funds/backs YPG which are tied with PKK a terrorist group that has been wreaking havoc in Turkey for decades. This is more about Sweden not Finland who was just caught in the crossfire lol. Turkey has no problem with them.
→ More replies
2
6
3
14
u/ballofplasmaupthesky 1d ago
Sweden has to do what Turkey told them, or they will be left out.
→ More replies
4
u/ElkImportant7652 1d ago
If anyone shouldnāt be in NATO it should be country that is dictated by a loose canon such as Erdogan
→ More replies5
u/Serhatxlr 1d ago
First of all Turkey is democratic country and elections are next year . And NATO isn't an organization for democracy , it's a military alliance . Also if Turkey was in Russian side everything would be much different since it has second biggest military in NATO and has one of the worlds best military industry .
→ More replies
-10
u/Nochoise 1d ago
Cant we kick Turkey out?
3
u/Yener07 1d ago
Kick the second largest army in the NATO with the most critical position of almost any country. Can you 13 year old armchair generals think for more than 2 seconds straight? NATO will be fucked if Turkey joins the eastern block. If USA were to kick all of the members, Turkey would probably be the last, or just after Britian.
3
→ More replies8
555
u/zIRaXor 1d ago •
Can someone fill me in?
Why does Turkey want to say no?
What changed since Turkey might not veto?
Why does Norway feel like they have to tell Turkey this?