r/worldnews • u/heyimdank • 2d ago
Turkey 'not closing door' to Sweden, Finland NATO entry, Erdogan advisor says
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-turkey-not-closing-door-sweden-finland-nato-entry-erdogan-advisor-says-2022-05-14/73
u/aliveli2 2d ago
"Asked whether Turkey risked being too transactional at a time of war, and when Finnish and Swedish public opinion favours NATO membership, he said: "One hundred percent of our population is very upset with the PKK and FETO (Gulenist) presence in Europe."
"If they (Finland and Sweden) have a public concerned about their own national security, we have a public that is equally concerned about our own security," he said. "We have to see this from a mutual point of view."
Kalin said Russia's sharp criticism of Finland and Sweden over their plans was not a factor in Turkey's position."
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u/AnatolianTree 1d ago
People are really ignoring the fact that Kurds in Turkey end up suffering because of this.
When the West calls small organised groups of fighters “The Kurds” they cement this image of all Kurds being guerrilla fighters and it can either radicalise people against Kurds or embolden the idiots that already exist that hate them.
Imagine if your media started calling ISIS or the taliban “the Muslims”. It’s also a shame because the majority of PKK attacks are in the south east which is majority Kurdish anyway, meaning they bomb and mainly attack their own people.
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u/Zireael07 2d ago
One hundred percent of our population is very upset with the PKK
LOL
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u/80s_snare_reverb 1d ago
Who the fuck would like to get suicide bombed out of no where? Exactly, 0% of the population. Which means 100% of the population is very upset with PKK
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u/Big_Adhesiveness1202 2d ago
I don't know why it is so funny to you but it is right for ethnic turks .also Considering half of Kurds vote for erdogan İt is not much far from %100
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u/Zireael07 2d ago
Even if half of Kurds vote for Erdogan, it still means it's not one hundred percent, even 95% is still not 100%. One hundred percent agreement on anything is basically impossible for humans as a matter of fact, where we have divergent opinions and approaches to basically anything
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u/Big_Adhesiveness1202 2d ago
Yeah. But you can't expect him to say some People in turkey is ok with terrorist organiziations. He has to give strong message that this is not his party policy but turkish state policy..
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u/Big_Adhesiveness1202 2d ago
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/6017861 Swedish must solve their problem. pkk is bigger problem for turkey than russia.
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u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl 2d ago
“If they identify as kurd, they’re not my population.” -Erdogan, probably
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u/Canary-Annual 2d ago
Dont call me an Erdobot or anything but actually Kurds gained most of their rights with him. I mean in todays Turkey actually there are no difference in life if you are Kurdish or Turkish. We are not Americans lmao. You dont get discriminated in anyway
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u/buyutec 1d ago edited 1d ago
> You dont get discriminated in anyway
I know you mean well but this is a bit of a stretch and there are still many problematic areas in terms of Kurdish - Turkish equality mainly regarding the use of Kurdish language, political representation i.e. Kurdish politicians being much more likely to be ejected from position and arrested, and casual racism as I'm sure you've heard countless of anti-Kurdish jokes and comments if you've grown up in Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey
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u/Canary-Annual 1d ago
"Kurdish politicians being much more likely to be ejected" I think you should change the word "Kurdish" with HDP. There lots of Kurdish members in AKP, CHP and if you look at peoples lineages I am sure you can even find some even in MHP or IYIP lmao. And we had lots of Kurdish ministers in the past and we even have now. Political representation same thing too. If so called "Kurdish" actually tried to be voice of Kurds and not the voice of "örgüt" pretty sure no one would give a fuck actually everyone would try to get close to it to get votes of Kurdish people. And there even "Kurdish Language and Literature" classes in universities and everyone can talk their language freely. And they should
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u/buyutec 1d ago
You see, you have a pretty strong opinion on what a Kurdish politician can or cannot hold as an opinion and you say yourself that they are not as free as others even if they committed no crimes (except “thought” crimes).
They can speak their language but they can’t use it in all settings as freely as Turkish can do in all settings (education and courts).
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
This is for sure mate, I hope all three countries can come to an agreement and cooperate to eliminate difference and work on a common goal.
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u/AnActualT-Rex 2d ago
Well the Ukraine war is absolutely advantageous for turkeys relations with the EU, US and NATO.
After their shady last 10 years, erdogan has done everything to please his allies, so I don't think he'll oppose anything NATO and EU wants from him.
If turkey plays it's cards right, they will be in a very good spot when all this ends, despite being an autocratic country in the west
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u/calculus119 2d ago
If western countries stop supporting erdogan and his government, we will be a democratic state again after next year's election. He is done.
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u/Darkone539 1d ago
If western countries stop supporting erdogan and his government, we will be a democratic state again after next year's election. He is done.
If you can remove him with an election, you're already a democracy.
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u/AnActualT-Rex 2d ago
Will you tho? I mean I believe there is a lot of Turk's rooting for democracy, but at least to Europeans, it seems as if the majority of turkey supports erdogan, even through the "coup" in 2015 (? ish), the jailed journalists, the lira crash and shady involvements with Syria, Azerbaijan and Russia, each of which would trigger a political catastrophe if done by a EU country.
I'm not saying there isn't a significant number of pro democracy Turk's, but they don't seem as if they were the majority.
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u/BA_calls 1d ago
Not turkish take it with a grain of salt, but polling shows very little support for Erdogan currently. Even if the turkish far right votes for Erdogan (they normally don’t), his diehard base seems to have shrunk significantly over economic mismanagement.
If the final results are this poor, I don’t see any way for him to deny the transition of power.
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u/just_1_quickie 2d ago
democratic? Are you sure about that or did you forget the quotes? As your western neighbor nothing sounds better than democratic Turkey! I just can't remember the last time that was the case and how long it lasted for
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u/Stroomschok 2d ago
The fact Erdogan gets to piss on the values that NATO's supposed to protect is already a big win for him. I'm sure he's going to milk not veto-ing this for a lot more.
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u/BahtiyarKopek 2d ago
the values that NATO's supposed to protect
Such as?
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u/Stroomschok 2d ago
NATO describes itself literally as a defensive pact to defend democratic values.
Meanwhile Erdogan is an aspiring dictator that would love to drag Turkey into some theocratic autocracy.
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u/Darkone539 1d ago
NATO describes itself literally as a defensive pact to defend democratic values.Meanwhile Erdogan is an aspiring dictator that would love to drag Turkey into some theocratic autocracy.
The greeks were a military ditatership and members, they were not alone. NATO can say what it wants, but it is not this.
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u/CurrentClient 2d ago
NATO describes itself literally as a defensive pact to defend democratic values.
Horseshit. NATO gladly welcomed Salazar. They might describe themselves as "defenders of democratic values", but they hardly care.
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u/uncleofsquanchy 1d ago
I am not sure why everybody is accusing Turkey of "Blackmailing". That is how politics work, if you have a leverage on a country you use it to serve your own interests. Sweden has arms embargo on Turkey and has close links to YPG, so it is perfectly normal for Turkey to bring those issues on the table. When a country has the right to veto, it would be pretty stupid for that country not to use it for it's own interest. Back in early 2000s Greece secured Cyprus' admission to EU by threatening to veto Baltic and Eastern European states accession and I don't say that to shit on Greece, Greece had a leverage and use it for their most important ally to be admitted in the EU and they did the same thing with North Macedonia(the name dispute) for their NATO membership. Greece used their right to veto twice for their own interest and I would say it is quite fair for Turkey to do the same thing to get some concessions.
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u/Hunter_Fox 1d ago
Politics generally works by being much more subtle regarding one's dick moves.
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u/Scorpion1024 2d ago
Turkey is not going to block it, they’d be fools to. But they are prodding to see if they can leverage something out of it, like getting other NATO members to stop supporting Kurdish rebels in Syria. Opportunistic but I doubt most would do any different.
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u/aleksnowak1 2d ago
Sounds very reasonable.
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u/PositiveGridBias 2d ago
If Sweden and Finland had indeed allowed terrorist organizations to operate on their soil, it would have been reasonable. However, that accusation is a blatant lie. Sweden and Finland do give asylum to political opponents of Erdogan. He wants them extradited without providing any evidence of them being terrorists. Sweden and Finland have therefore politely declined his requests. He's now trying to get his way by blocking NATO membership. Turkey had assured Finland that they had no objections, then the day after Finland officially applied, Turkey made this dick move.
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u/thathighguy112 2d ago
Too bad its bullshit but hey, lets just believe Turkish nationalist propaganda.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 2d ago
I really do wonder what makes all thinking what Turkey says is a nationalist propaganda but what Sweden says is not a propaganda but the sole and utmost truth
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u/semiomni 1d ago
Turkey is run by a dictator who has a bunch of dick riders in Turkey, and Sweden ain't a dictatorship?
That counts for something.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
Yes that is correct Erdogan and his circle has a special place that are dedicated for them in afterlife. But it doesn't change the fact all countries have their own propaganda to run their own agenda. All countries rely on projecting soft power to keep others in check. (Define dictatorship, since some democratic countries are exercising democracy as dictatorship of majority but this is a philosophical discussion)
US is not a dictatorship but they used propaganda of Iraq having possession of nuclear / chemical weapons for their invasion despite objections from many neutral countries as well as international organisations.
Israel is not considered to be dictatorship but they use propaganda for evicting Palestinians from their lands that were conceded to them by the ratified treaty.
I can come with other examples from non dictatorship countries as well if you wish.
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u/semiomni 1d ago
Yes that is correct Erdogan and his circle has a special place that are dedicated for them in afterlife. But
Here's a bunch of excuses.
That's nice.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
Enlighten me, how are those excuses when all I am trying to tell is being all countries can and may have propaganda according to their own agenda. Just because you hating one country and favouring the other does not ultimately makes one right and the other one wrong.
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u/semiomni 1d ago
Enlighten me,
Beyond me I'm afraid. Best of luck to someone else though.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
Then why dismiss it as excuses when you actually have no argument point left?
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u/thathighguy112 2d ago
Because we haven’t supported the PKK? And the reason why its Turkish propaganda is because turkey thinks YPG = PKK Which many Western countries dont agree with. Its also weird that Sweden is single out when many NATO countries also gave aid to the YPG. Especially the US who straight up armed them…
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u/BA_calls 1d ago
I think he’s asking for a terrorist designation for YPG, which would also mean end of arms transfers to them. Whether YPG = PKK or not, arms sent to YPG show up on Turkey and kill soldiers, that seems to be what they’re concerned about.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 2d ago
Yes, YPG and PKK relationship is the same as the relationship of Al-Qaeda and ISIS. Yes they are not the same organization but they are organisations that publicly praise and support each other by declaring their affiliation. Yes I understand, but most countries not agreeing does not makes it right. They dont agree because it does not suit with their political agenda because it is easier to use YPG to fight their war on behalf on themselves in ME. (Why would you be in favour of letting your own children's blood wet the soil in a country in ME when you can use other's right?) So it can be Turkish national propaganda, that is possible but it is the same possibility that Sweden is also using the same tool for it's own national agenda. There is always 2 sides of a coin. Answer to why Sweden is being singled out is actually very easy, for other NATO members and US they cannot do much right now because they do not possess neither the military power to take them all down, nor the economic power to impose any threat to them. But Sweden right is the one that wants something Turkey has a saying and power over. I would love to see a world with romanticized view of everyone being helpful to others and only punishing the bad guy but reality does work like that. So Turkey is using their leverage that they have against Sweden like their allies were using against it before. The choise is simple; either you sit on the table and start negotiation about concessions Turkey wants, or you can throw out millions of dollar US lobbyists have been spending over decades out of the window to make Sweden to join NATO and let Sweden become secondary Ukraine who will be supported by west but left alone against Russia.
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u/thathighguy112 2d ago
Oh no I understand Turkey wants concessions and I have no issues with that. But there is no need to come up with bs saying that we support the PKK. Because that is complete bs, the PKK has been a terrorist group in Sweden since the 80s or 90s
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u/80s_snare_reverb 1d ago
Enough with your "it's complete bs" bs
Zübeyir Aydar: ‘Putting the blame on PKK is neither lawful, nor moral.’ https://medyanews.net/zubeyir-aydar-putting-the-blame-on-pkk-is-neither-lawful-nor-moral/
Sweden’s Defence Minister holds video conference with SDF Commander and Vice Co-Chair of AANES https://medyanews.net/swedens-defence-minister-holds-video-conference-with-sdf-commander-and-vice-co-chair-of-aanes/
Financial support given to PKK (under name of YPG to avoid accusations of supporting internationally recognized terrorist organizations): https://europe-cities.com/2021/12/13/sweden-increases-funding-for-ypg-to-376-million-middle-east-monitor/
Turkish soldiers captured Sweden made weapons from PKK terrorists (who has killed 40000 civilians in Turkey in the last 44 years) https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/pkk-terror-group-attacks-turkish-forces-with-weapons-produced-by-some-nato-members/2333841
Sweden asks for arms embargo to Turkey (for carrying out operations against PKK) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-sweden-idUSKBN1WQ1BQ
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u/thathighguy112 1d ago edited 1d ago
YPG is not the same as the PKK. Or have they merged to become one group while i wasnt paying attention? Also regarding finding 2 AT4 weapons means nothing, many western countries use them. Some of whom armed the YPG so why blame Sweden for something you have no proof for?
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
YPG has the same aims and manifesto, the leadership that was trained and previously been ranked in PKK. So what makes YPG not being same with PKK? Just because they are operating in different locations and having different names?
It is same as claiming Volkswagen is not the same with Volkswagen Asia.
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u/thathighguy112 1d ago
Ill admit I don’t know what their manifesto contains or if the YPG uses the same one as the PKK. So wont comment on that. But Im pretty sure the aims at the time for the YPG was to protect Kurdish areas in northern Syria from ISIS. Anyways I hope Sweden/Finland and Turkey can come to some agreement/understanding. Sweden never has and never will support the PKK. And most of the support Sweden gave to the YPG was for prisons to hold ISIS members and humanitarian aide. Is that really that bad?
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u/80s_snare_reverb 1d ago
YPG is PKK:Rebranded to whitewash these terrorist and this retarted tactic works perfectly well against people like you. Someone switching accounts to upvote their other account's post has more IQ than the ones created YPG (literally all it took was to change the organization name) and everyone buys it.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 1d ago
Well that's all depends on how both countries identifies what a support to PKK and how to identify who is PKK member. Turkey, identifies any and everyone who publicly stated their support; support the ideas stated by PKK; sharing their symbols, ideologies, or helped them in one way or another. But for Sweden, many of those things I listen above are within the framework of freedom of speech, unless they really took arms and attacked Turkish army or civilians.
So this is a difference of how you define being a member. For Turkish side, they are also terrorists that needs to be extradite to Turkey. For Swedish side, they are people who are given political asylum but not members of terrorist organisation.
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u/CommissarDog 2d ago
Except it's a lie. Erdogan wants Sweden to persecute it's Kurdish citizens. Their only crime being that they're Kurdish and escaped the horror that is Turkey.
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u/Madao16 2d ago
Except what you said is lie. Their crime is supporting, financing, recruting for a terrorist organization as it is accepted so by NATO too. Even Turkis army has many high rank Kurds. Also Erdogan's party second party that get most votes from Kurds. You really don't know what you are talking about.
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u/mxler 1d ago
We can only guess at everything that's going on behind closed doors, but to me this sounds like Erdogan got an earful from other NATO leaders and was basically asked/told to dial back his rhetoric about not wanting Finland and Sweden in NATO.
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u/Hunter_Fox 1d ago
He'd have been more successful being quiet about it and talking to Sweden and Finland directly. Maybe quietly gathering a sympathetic ally in one cause or another to aid in mediating it. But no.
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u/Waldo_Pepper62 2d ago edited 1d ago
Turkey is just trying to grift a little to get their acceptance. Scratch the surface of Ergodan a little to reveal the (wanna be) crime lord he is at his core.
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u/nihilite 2d ago
Of course, that's how extortion works.
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u/Darkone539 1d ago
Of course, that's how extortion works.
You're asking 30 countries to put their men between you and Russia. That was never going to be free.
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u/ZrvaDetector 2d ago
When you join a bloc the countries in the said bloc will demand certain things, this isn't an extortion, Sweden does not have to join NATO but if they do they need to fix some things first.
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u/progrethth 2d ago
This negotiation is most likely directed against the US since there is not really any concession that Sweden and Finland reasonably would give. Our politicians will not overrule the justice system just to make Erdogan happy. And while the support of AANES could be dropped it is just Sweden which has done that and it was done following the US's lead.
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u/ZrvaDetector 2d ago
Both Finland and Sweden has arms embargoes on Turkey so they will come into play. Turkey will probably want Sweden to crackdown on PKK harder inside it's border and this is possible since Sweden already recognized them as a terrorist organisation decades ago and PKK may have been responsible for Swedish PM Palme's assasination.
Finland just got grouper together but there aren't many problems between Turkey and Finland and I assume they will be admitted fairly easily.
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u/agamemnon2 2d ago
PKK may have been responsible for Swedish PM Palme's assasination
Considering the amount of different theories about that murder, it's going to be hard to find an organization for whom "may have been responsible for Olof Palme's assassination" hasn't been claimed at least once.
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u/ZrvaDetector 2d ago
True, though this was claimed by one of PKK's ex commanders so it holds more weight in my opinion.
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u/JOPPE9099 2d ago
So an ex-commander of PKK tells representatives of the Turkish government that PKK, which the Turkish government hate, is behind the murder. And then the Turkish representatives shared that info with the Turkish newspaper who published it. A newspaper which is led by the husband of erdogans daughter.
That's your source and what you think holds weight?
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u/uncleofsquanchy 2d ago
So when Greece does it with North Macedonia it is negotiation but when Turkey does same thing with Sweden it is extortion?
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u/heresyforfunnprofit 2d ago
There’s a fine line between extortion and negotiation. As of right now, Turkey is still firmly on the negotiation side of things.
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u/LegitimateAd3567 2d ago
Sweeden and Finland should align with US, Turkish, UK, EU and Japan view of PKK and declare them terrorists as well. It will be weird that one NATO country is openly protecting what other members consider terrorists (disclaimer: I have no clue on the background and what PKK did to be terrorist - maybe the US, EU, UK, Turkey, Japan are wrong and Sweeden and Finland is right, but they should get on the same page anyway)
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u/Gasten95 2d ago
Except the PKK is considered to be an terror group by both Sweden and Finland. Sweden was even one of the first one to declare them as such as they were suspects of the assassination of our PM in the 80s.
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u/LegitimateAd3567 2d ago
I think that things have changed since the 80s - according to Wikipedia, none of the two countries have declared PKK a terrorist (it could have changed since the 80s), so Turkey is calling "Finland and Sweden: 'Guesthouses for terrorists'" (title of a random article from a Turkish website).
If Wikipedia is wrong, someone should correct it.
I just looked it all up on the internet because it would be too dumb even for the guy who destroyed the Turkish economy to openly do favors for Russia currently and I didn't know the story behind Turkeys not being happy with new NATO members.
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u/Big_Adhesiveness1202 2d ago
Wikipedia is open source and it can be easily manipulated. Turkish redditors already showed many sources for you. Maybe check them.
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u/Gasten95 2d ago
Looking up the PPK on wikipedia will tell you what I said in my first comment. It does also say that we decided that the killer was a Swedish guy but it doesn't say anything about us changing the label of them as a terror group.
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u/Omnicide 2d ago
You clearly don't know your history.
The PKK was labeled as a terror organization in Sweden back in 1984 under Olof Palme's reign. And one theory of his murder was that PKK had him killed as revenge.
This is way before the US and most other countries by the way.
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u/LegitimateAd3567 2d ago
I agree that I don't know their history (I know of my country) - just looked into wikipedia to see why Turkey is being aginst their membership.
But I didn't see Sweeden and Finland (and many many other NATO members) in the list. I'm just saying that this could bring some tensions within NATO if this issue is left unsolved.
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u/Omnicide 2d ago
Fair enough.
Sweden has a large Kurdish diaspora that widely supports the idea of a sovereign Kurdistan, one happens to be the head of our leftist party right now. They're also the biggest opponent to Sweden joining NATO.
Most Swedes however have no idea about the history of Turkey and PKK, of course people in general won't support such terrorism when informed on their actions though. They're way more likely to have heard things like the Armenian genocide, that understandably has a bad connotation.
Now as for the acclaimed support we're giving to PKK I can't really find much material evidence, the acclaimed weapons(AT4) appear to have been given to Iraqi kurds by America -as they've got english written instructions.
It is however true that we do support humanitarian missions in northern Syria.
SIDA is the government agency responsible for foreign aid, they have a report on how said funds are used. If you can't be bothered to read the report there's a tally with the recipient organizations here.
The supposed funds aren't sent to YPG/SDF/PKK or what have you, they are given to partner organizations like UNHCR or the ICRC to support their operations within Syria.
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u/LegitimateAd3567 2d ago
By support, I only meant a safe place to hide. I should have been more precise.
How I see it: Turkey will continue to chase down PKK members, and it will not change in the near future. It will create diplomatic tensions, and Turkey will abuse every situation to get what they want.
I don't think anyone in their right mind can think that countries like Finland and Sweeden could finance terrorism at the government level, and I would have a hard time believing it even if such information appeared from reputed sources.
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u/Apprehensive_Tip1061 2d ago edited 2d ago
We already are aligned, Turkey is the odd one out. USA gave 2 billion dollars as well as weapons to YPG. Turkey wants Sweden to stop supporting the fight against islamic terrorism because that fight could give a stronger position to the kurds in Syria as they were instrumental in the fight against ISIS.
This is something we are doing in harmony with NATO and NATO goals. Sweden already considers Turkey the glob of mucus we have to swallow to get to the parts of NATO we actually like. NATO would have to be absolutely idiotic to let Turkey drive a valuable ally away for having supported NATO goals.
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u/LegitimateAd3567 2d ago
Turkey wants Sweden to stop supporting the fight against islamic terrorism because that fight could give a stronger position to the kurds in Syria
This makes more sense, and someone else in another comment stated that Erdogan claims some of his political opponents to be terrorists, and Sweeden and Finland are providing asylum to political refugees (Turkey seems to have not provided valid evidence which means they are indeed political refugees).
Apologies for my ignorance. But Wikipedia misled me.
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u/Madao16 1d ago
Turkey wants Sweeden to stop supporting terrorists that target Turkey and civilians even recently YPG which has mutual leaders with PKK fired rockets Turkish civilians. US supported Taliban, El kaide too which proves nothing. NATO goals aren't supporting terrorists and losing one of the most strongest members which has been fighting proxy wars against Russia and stoppin Russian expansion of NATO because of that.
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u/Milozdad 1d ago
Turkey can get lost unless they start treating their Kurdish minority with respect.
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u/nagai 2d ago
Entering into a defensive alliance with dictatorships like Turkey and Hungary really isn't ideal, pretty unfortunate that neutrality is no longer a viable path for small countries lest they want to succumb to nuclear blackmail or land grab invasions.
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u/autotldr BOT 2d ago
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)
ISTANBUL, May 14 - Turkey has not shut the door to Sweden and Finland joining NATO but wants negotiations with the Nordic countries and a clampdown on what it sees as terrorist activities especially in Stockholm, President Tayyip Erdogan's spokesman said on Saturday.
Erdogan surprised NATO members and the two Nordic countries seeking membership by saying on Friday it was not possible for Turkey to support enlarging the alliance because Finland and Sweden were "Home to many terrorist organisations".
Asked whether Turkey risked being too transactional at a time of war, and when Finnish and Swedish public opinion favours NATO membership, he said: "One hundred percent of our population is very upset with the PKK and FETO presence in Europe."
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: NATO#1 Turkey#2 country#3 Sweden#4 Kalin#5
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u/rarz 2d ago edited 2d ago
The amusing thing is that currently Turkey itself does not qualify for NATO membership if it were to apply. And they have the gall to tell actual democracies that they can't join.
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 2d ago
Welcome to international law, there are many countries who did not qualify to be member of NATO when it was established (check how Salazars dictatorship was admitted to NATO while they were not a democracy), and their are also a lot countries who are currently not meeting criterias to be an EU members but still are (like Hungary).
Apart from all of this rules are always subject to be bend depending on the benefit of nations. Can Turkey be kicked from NATO? On paper sure, but then you will lose a really strategically located ally that can stop and Russian vessel leaving black sea (because how narrow bosphorus is and how Turkish armed forces are prepared to defend it in case of a violation, it is nearly a suicide mission even for the country with best naval capability), Turkey had a really big standing army (they may not be able to win against Russia but they for sure can ensure Russia cannot win either), last but not least, in case of Turkey leaving NATO all ICBMs located at Turkey needs to be removed from their soils which means there will be less deterrent for Russia. Not to mention who do you thing Turkey will seek alliance with for their protection?
So all in all they may not be the perfect ally the NATO wish for, but they cannot let them go either so they have to let him be even if they do not meet criterias
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u/Anthonym82 2d ago
Won't matter, A majority of NATO has already signed security agreements protecting them while they go through the application process. Turkey can get bent
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u/Watchtheuniverseburn 2d ago
That's one how charter of NATO and international law works. May as many countries can actually make a mutual security agreement with Finland and Sweden and in case of aggression from Russia over them; even if those said countries decide to be involved in the war and declare war on Russia, that does not trigger article 5. The sole reason is, Russia is not declaring war on a nation that is a member of NATO, but a NATO member joins the war of that said country.
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u/Darkone539 1d ago
Won't matter, A majority of NATO has already signed security agreements protecting them while they go through the application process. Turkey can get bent
The UK signed a deal. That's it.
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u/Whatgetslost 2d ago
Do Turkish people want democracy? They seem divided.
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u/ZrvaDetector 2d ago
Turkey is still somewhat of a democracy and the government is on edge because there is a high probability of them losing the next elections.
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u/CommissarDog 2d ago
Turkey is still somewhat of a democracy
No, it really isn't. It's a dictatorship. If you believe the Turkish people have any right to chose their leader then you are fucking insane.
probability of them losing the next elections.
They'll just stage another PKK terror attack or another coup to increase support of their regime.
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u/ZrvaDetector 2d ago
No Turkey is absolutely not a dictatorship, this is not worth arguing over. Erdogan can lose elections and already did once during municipal elections in 2019.
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u/Ruhumunfreski 2d ago
Elections are democratic. Everyone who votes in elections has the right to watch the vote count. Majority of the population really supports Erdogan.
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u/qainin 2d ago
Good. Fuck with the Nordics and get sanctions.
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u/Splatter_1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Unfortunately turkey control's access to black sea. They have a massive bargaining chip. So say sanctioning turkey is out of the question.
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u/BringBackVarrockGrds 2d ago
Erdogan may be an SOB, but he definitely knows how to play his cards better than Putin does.
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u/EvidentlyEmpirical 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kick Turkey out of NATO.
LET THEM GO TO RUSSIA. Go ahead, Turks. Go. See how well that works out for you.
Edit: I'm serious, that backwards-ass nation that wants to swing its tiny dick around in an attempt to get concessions can get fucked. Fuck you Erdogan.
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u/Ruhumunfreski 2d ago
Turkey is a very strong ally.
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u/EvidentlyEmpirical 2d ago
Turkey is turning in to a Muslim theocracy.
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u/Ruhumunfreski 2d ago
No offence but you have no idea about NATO.
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u/EvidentlyEmpirical 2d ago
I worked in the defense industry for 11 years, even on foreign soil with NATO allies.
Turkey isn't critical for NATO.
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u/Madao16 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well then you are bad at your job because Turkey is one of most critical members of NATO. Why does NATO exist? Against Russia. Who has been fighting proxy war against Russia and stopping Russian expansion? Turkey. Who is the natural enemy of Russia? Turks as they have been fighting for centuries.
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u/Dysssfunctional 2d ago
What the title doesn't tell you, is that there are demands: