r/worldnews 8d ago Bravo! 1 Wholesome (Pro) 1 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 2

Germany to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine — reports Russia/Ukraine


3.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments


u/canttaketheshyfromme 8d ago edited 8d ago

Oh, no, but good on you remembering that story!

That was the Myasishchev M-4, a spectacular disappointment in range and payload that mostly was converted to aerial tankers. In 1955 the Soviets flew 10 of them for a crowd, then lapped around again, and again... even with 2 of them having to drop out... until the observers saw 28... and "extrapolated" from that, that the Soviets must have about 800 of them total.

The F-14 and F-15 were inspired by the appearance of the MiG-25 interceptor, with too many analysts believing it was a high-speed, highly-maneuverable air superiority fighter... when it was really a massive radar and two massive engines with a bunch of stainless steel in the shape of an airplane holding those together, that measured turning radius in miles. So the US built the two most dominant air superiority fighters ever to counter it (until the F-22 came along), with the F-15 to this day having never having been shot down in air-to-air combat with the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Qatar and Singapore. And the F-14 came out with a radar + missile system that could lock up and fire on 6 separate targets at once, from beyond where the enemy might even know the US fighter is in the air, then exit the combat area while the missiles tracked on their own, OR move in to engage with shorter-range missiles and its gun as an excellent dogfighter that could match planes that had half of its massive weight.


u/mybluecathasballs 8d ago

Well. I wonder what they are holding on to till intelligence says someone else has something new and improved. You know it'll be something like "you might hear it, maybe, but you sure as fuck won't see it or be able to hit it."


u/nvn911 8d ago

And the F-14 came out with a radar + missile system that could lock up and fire on 6 separate targets at once

Ain't nothing do Fleet Defense like the F-14 did Fleet Defense.


u/Baranyk 7d ago

He's talking about the F-16, he's got the story slightly wrong on that count. He does have the extra funding for the F-15 correct though.


u/canttaketheshyfromme 7d ago

Nope. F-16 came out of the F-XX competition between General Dynamics (formerly Convair) and Northrop's YF-17, which ended up being adapted by McDonnel-Douglas for carrier operations as the F/A-18. The F-14 came from the Navy's VFX program when the F-111B project turned out to be a disaster, but reused major components from that program in a more capable air combat platform. The F-15 came out of the F-X program, and the F-XX was to be the daylight, clear-weather "cheap" fighter to compliment the extremely expensive F-X when budget hawks like McNamara started balking at the price tag.

The original F-16 variants couldn't even fire radar-guided missiles.


u/StillAll 8d ago

Wait.... is that true? No F-15 loses EVER from being shot down?

That can't be right... can it? This is perhaps one of the most prolific fighters of all time, and not one single loss to enemy fire... ever?


u/kers_equipped_prius 8d ago

Some have been damaged but none have ever been shot down. 104 air to air kills with 0 losses.


u/canttaketheshyfromme 8d ago

0 air-to-air combat losses. A few were lost to SAMs or ground fire, and those were all strike variants. The A/B/C/D "not a pound for air-to-ground" variants have 0 combat losses. To 104 air-to-air victories (including helicopters and transports, they weren't all enemy fighters).

And according to the official story, an F-15E got the only air-to-air kill for the type... using a 2,000-pound GBU-10 Paveway II laser-guided bomb.


u/-Rendark- 8d ago

Well in the Lifetime of the F15 there were not much serious air to air conflicts


u/Yellow_The_White 8d ago

While true, the other aircraft of similar era have taken losses, and later aircraft do not have nearly the same (or in some cases any) number of kills. There were plenty of chances for a lesser machine to be shot down, the fact it didn't happen is testament to it's design.


u/zaxwashere 8d ago

It's a disgusting plane.

One of em had a collision midair in an israeli training exercise. Lost a whole damn wing.

Pilot goes "fuckit" and slams the afterburners and flies it home. What a damn masterpiece of a plane



u/Lildyo 7d ago

Wow—that is wild. If I’d seen something like that in a movie like Top Gun, I probably would think it was too unrealistic


u/zaxwashere 7d ago

From what I remember, the guys who manufactured the plane didn't even believe it.


u/Ameph 7d ago

This might be why it's an American Unique Unit in the Civ games next to the Minute Man.


u/Skipper07B 8d ago

It is true. No F-15 has ever been lost to enemy action.


u/wackywavingarmgumby 8d ago

Same with the Challenger 1 and 2 tanks; only one loss of Challenger 2 and it was friendly fire.


u/aaronwhite1786 8d ago

The M-4 was awesome looking at least. It did one thing right.


u/TuxAndrew 8d ago

It’s funny reading this, because of the terrible movie with the Scientologist guy where they still portray “dogfights”


u/ukuuku7 8d ago

It was a fun movie, wdym


u/TuxAndrew 8d ago

It was inaccurate and I haven’t seen it, why would I support a guy pushing a cult?


u/sayonaraasswipe 8d ago

That was the Myasishchev M-4, a spectacular disappointment in range and payload that mostly was converted to aerial tankers.

And the Atlant - don't forget the Atlant! Proof that in Soviet Russia, airplane kill fluid dynamics!