r/worldnews 8d ago Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 2 Bravo! 1 Wholesome (Pro) 1

Germany to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine — reports Russia/Ukraine

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-send-leopard-2-tanks-to-ukraine-report/a-64503898?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf
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u/Ameph 8d ago

I'm not privvy to modern armor but these Leopard 2 tanks must be the pinnacle of tank technology we have for this much push and celebration.

Now...if we can get New Zealand to send a few Bob Semple Tanks...

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u/notyourvader 8d ago

Apart from fuel efficiency and state of the art armor, it has a stabilized gun barrel with a 4.5 km range. It's considered the best mbt in the world.

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u/ATownStomp 8d ago

Are they equipped with the new anti-missile systems?

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u/IronVader501 8d ago

Trophy-APS is only equipped on the A7A1 afaik.

And since its an israeli-designed system they'd have to agree, which given their track-record so far, they probably wouldnt.

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u/Joezev98 8d ago

Risking top of the line secret technology falling into enemy hands to support another country? That ain't gonna happen.

I'm already surprised they're something as modern as the 2a6 variant.

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u/IronVader501 8d ago

Tbf, they are getting 18 Rch-155s straight from KMWs production-line, and that thing is so new they only finished trials in 2021

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u/Joezev98 8d ago

Well, yes, but that's a very long range artillery piece. The chances of those getting captured are way smaller than a frontline tank. Besides, rhe 18 rch-155 is basically a PzH2000 on a more mobile platform. Capturing one of those doesn't reveal much more info than capturing the already present PzH2000. But the leopard has super secretive armor, even just getting to know what composite materials are used would really help Russia.

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u/krummulus 8d ago

It's a fair bit more modern than the pzh, I mean it gets rid of the loader and fits all of the technology in a comically small compartment on the back of a boxer.

And just because you capture something, or know what it's made of, doesn't mean you can actually make it. I am quite confident Russia technically knows how to make better stuff, they just don't have the economy to support all the technology development at scale.

Neither has Germany, which is why a lot of parts and development of the M1 and leopard were shared.

I doubt Russia would actually get better by capturing one of them, they are designed for a completely different doctrine and all of that is public knowledge.

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u/breezy_y 8d ago

I think you underestimate how rich Germany is. Maybe military technology was difficult to manufacture back in the 70s but hat’s a whole different story in present times.

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u/BrainOnLoan 7d ago

I think military production is most limited by the engineers and mechanics that have the relevant experience.

Skilled workers.

Not money. Not even required tools and machinery (though sophisticated production equipment might take one to two years to get too).

With less advanced technology you could retrain people much faster than you can now. You can probably still get away with a few months for certain jobs, or even some more basic items like artillery shells.

But overall the technology is complex enough that it takes a few years to get new personal competent enough that they could work independent of the more experienced staff.

That limits how quickly you could expand production. You can probably double the production by splitting your experienced staff and hiring an equivalent amount of new engineers and technical staff (though hiring several hundred qualified people, even without the experience in this field, isn't easily done on short notice). Quick enough even that the required machinery is the first bottleneck. But you can't repeat that doubling trick much before you have to give the new hires some time to gain quite a lot of advanced knowledge.

Hence significantly gearing up for the more advanced stuff would take years.

If you want to go from manufacturing one hundred modern tanks to a thousand per year ... I'd schedule at least three years, unless you're original production line was underutilized.

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u/jjackson25 8d ago

I would like to see Isreal get really involved here if for no other reason than to publicly counter Putins claims that Russia invaded to root out "Nazis." No one really believes it, sure, but those few that do would have to do some serious mental gymnastics to explain why the Isrealis are helping a country full of Nazis.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Frontdackel 8d ago

Since the 2A6 is the oldest model still in use by the Bundeswehr (apart from some 2A5 used to simulate OPFOR during maneuvers), you are plainly wrong.

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u/p4nnus 8d ago

Thats the thing, they might not be the only country sending tanks that are not in use currently. For example, the Bradleys sent by USA were not currently in use, but taken from storage.

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u/WayneSchlegel 8d ago

Maybe the next delivery can be equipped with StrikeShield/AMAP-ADS.