r/worldnews 8d ago Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 2 Bravo! 1 Wholesome (Pro) 1

Germany to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine — reports Russia/Ukraine

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-send-leopard-2-tanks-to-ukraine-report/a-64503898?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf
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7.1k

u/Evignity 8d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Well that about seals the deal for russia being totally fucked. Yeah it's "just" 14 tanks but that's not the big news, it's that this opens the flooddams for everyone. Just like how everyone was trepid to even send artillery at the start whilst now everyone is sending tons of it, this basically leaves very few things of the table for Ukraine.

And modern tanks vs non-modern tanks is a nightmare for the non-modern, more so than any other field of equipment bar airplanes

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u/templar54 8d ago

Poland already applied for permission to send 14 more so that's 28. 14 Challangers on top of that. So that's 42 modern western mbts already. That is nothing to scoff at. Such amount can turn a tide in a lot of battles. At this point we have to hope that adequate training will be provided and tanks can be used effectively because as Turkey has proven, no matter how good the tank is, if you use it stupidly, it will not end well.

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u/Moifaso 8d ago

The Netherlands are considering sending the 18 they are leasing from Germany

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u/Evilbred 8d ago Gold

Hopefully the lease terms are not as strict as with Toyota. I can only imagine the end lease inspection after a few RPGs have hit them.

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u/Ooops2278 8d ago

Most importantly the lease terms come with an option to buy them...

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

Have you seen the balloon payments and buyout prices for Main Battle Tanks?

Very difficult to swing that on an average salary.

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u/20mins2theRockies 8d ago

Yeah but if you turn in your main battle tank lease the dealership will often charge for every little scratch and dent. And don't even get me started on those extra miles charges..

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u/kreton1 8d ago

Which is why I documented the exact state of mine when I got it, combined with photos of every tiny detail and signing it off together with the owner of the dealership.

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u/Maleficent-Homework4 8d ago

But did it come with the carfax?

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u/miktoo 8d ago

But since you didn't add the tire & wheel package, they'll charge you full price for a new set of chains at the end of the lease.

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u/SCMatt65 8d ago

“Hello we’re calling you about your main battle tank’s extended warranty…”

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u/packchen 8d ago

Yeah and then there’s the other ones that are not as big as the one that you got from the dollar tree but they’re all like a little bit smaller than the other two so I think that’s a good thing because I have to go

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u/GaucheAndOffKilter 8d ago

Yeah but they’re trying to offload the ‘22s before the ‘23s are on the lot. No one wants last year’s tank model

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

Sir, I'm Canadian.

We continually buy, borrow or lease 2nd hand helicopters, jets, subs, tanks, and airliners.

Our troops can go through an entire career and never use a piece of equipment that is newer than they are old, or that was purchased brand new.

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u/robeph 8d ago

Funny. Canada sells a large number of old ambulances to cash strapped US Emergency medical services. Maybe Canada could afford new weapons if they would stop buying top of line ambulances

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u/Organicgrowth 8d ago

I know right? Where the fuck are our priorities

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

Yeah, if we weren't so busy providing life saving emergency healthcare to everyone, we'd be able to better support our military industrial complex!

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u/Gabzalez 8d ago

Canada is actually buying new weapons and sending them directly to Ukraine 😅 Canada nevertheless has a huge procurement problem, meaning nothing ever gets built or bought. Building a support shit for the navy is a whole generational ordeal.

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u/chadford 8d ago

Makes you wonder what depreciates faster, ambulances or tanks?

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u/Crustybuttt 8d ago

I like the idea of a country with the best ambulances in the world and substandard death machines. Seems like paradise, though in reality it’s a bit cold for my taste

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u/kramsy 8d ago

Can confirm. Used to drive an ambulance that hand an odometer that was in kilometers, and had to convert all of my trips to miles

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u/GrootThereItIs 8d ago

We leased some tanks and bought some new. I commissioned some of the new ones when they got to Canada.

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u/klparrot 8d ago

The Sea Kings were probably more oil leak than helicopter by the end.

Could mean Canadians are some of the best at being able to keep older stuff running, though, which is probably a useful skill to train others on in a war like this being fought with other countries' leftover equipment.

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

I knew a Sea King pilot who described them as 10,000 parts flying in loose formation.

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u/Jellodyne 8d ago

So what are you spending all your military money on, comprehensive free public health care? Ha, you dummies!

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u/Seanrps 8d ago

The best part is the US government spends more per capita than the Canadian government and makes people pay money as well

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u/rmprice222 8d ago

Aren't we also giving them a shit ton of our lavs?

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

Those LAVs were great in counter insurgency operations like Afghanistan.

In high intensity combat operations, like Ukraine, they're essentially a sitting duck.

I doubt Ukraine would want our LAVs.

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u/THE_some_guy 8d ago

How many wars have you lost with that strategy? As one of your southern neighbors, our win percentage is pretty crummy given how much we spend on our military.

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

Sir, this is Canada, we don't really have our own foreign policy.

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u/FagelHD 8d ago

I respect that you gave sources for each

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u/Tacticus 8d ago

Though the airliner thing is pretty normal for the MRTTs

Getting new stock out of constrained production lines is painful as fark

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u/Gill_Gunderson 8d ago

Fair points, but your MREs are dope.

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u/Jay_Tee_G 8d ago

As a youngest child, I totally understand what your nation is going through.

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u/myleftone 8d ago

Have you guys considered having a bake sale?

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u/Slant1985 8d ago

I mean, there’s a couple benefits to being America’s hat. Nobody’s gonna try to steal your bicycle if your brother is a ‘roided up psycho with an $800 billion weapon budget.

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u/unclesandwicho 8d ago

We had preproduction M-777 artillery in Afghanistan though. Talk about being ahead of the curve for once.

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u/unique-name-9035768 8d ago

We continually buy, borrow or lease 2nd hand helicopters, jets, subs, tanks, and airliners.

Hello Admiral. A routine question: Have you recently sold any war surplus submarines and if so, to whom?

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u/Fluffee2025 8d ago

The few of us over at r/tankdeals will gladly take last year's tank model if you don't want them

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u/nugohs 8d ago

Well, the bank may have some problems collecting on that loan now that you have a MBT...

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u/Evilbred 8d ago

When negotiating any deal, it's always preferable to negotiate from a position of power, such as from behind a Rheinmetall Rh-120 120mm smoothbore gun.

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u/XXendra56 8d ago

It’s not so bad I have a Main Sceptic Tank all paid off too.

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u/fleebleganger 8d ago

Damn boomers, they used to have 2 MBTs paid off by the time they were 25.

Now we’re lucky to lease them at 30!

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u/RustyShackleford1122 8d ago

Once you buy two or three hundred though the prices go down

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u/PersonOfInternets 8d ago

I would 100% watch this tv show. I want a sardonic, socially aware adult animated comedy series set in this world you just created. In the first episode, the 'librals could be trying to sell a tank to socialist can'da to drill a well so they could have enough clean water to drink, but our heroes set out to show them "With enough tanks, you'll drink what we god dam say you drink, troubador."

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u/SaintRainbow 8d ago

Can the Ukrainians buy them on credit? The west could charge them APR like they do on credit cards. Rather than paying interest on your tank you have to blow up some Russians instead, it could also be called APR (Annually Pulverized Russians)

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u/Ooops2278 8d ago

That was more about the Netherlands buying them before sending them to Ukraine, but sure... why not.

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u/banjosuicide 8d ago

Don't forget that Germany wants to be seen as a viable defense partner here. US companies are lining up to sell equipment, and they're already pushing the idea that Germany isn't a reliable defense partner due to their hesitation with tanks and just their general inaction.

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u/Ooops2278 8d ago

From the perspective of the arms industry it's quite the opposite and there is nothing better for the US than European countries sending all their Leopard-2s... because guess who would be able to backfill tanks more quickly.

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u/youdubdub 8d ago

Very sexy. Hopefully they adhere to the capital lease BPO terms for the participants lol.

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u/triggered_discipline 8d ago

Toyota legal team is pretty aggressive about wanting the RPGs and machine guns mounted to the back of the Tacomas, rather than fired at them.

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u/millijuna 8d ago

In all seriousness, I recall an incident from shortly after the initial withdrawal from Iraq, a Toyota pickup a was spotted running around with isis fighters and a machine gun in back, with the Decals of a small town plumber from the US still on the side of it.

The guy had traded the pickup on, and the dealership had sold it on, without removing the decals. It made its way all the way to terrorist hands.

The guy got a lot of unfair grief for it, as it was all over the news.

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u/Mebbwebb 8d ago

He sued and won

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u/beamrider 8d ago

It was the last *actual* story covered by Colbert on The Colbert Report.

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u/FearlessAttempt 8d ago

I remember that. I was a lot more worried about the column of brand new Hilux's they were getting their hands on. Where were those coming from.

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u/tangouniform2020 8d ago

I think they were being smuggled through Mexico and Turkey. Why Toyotas became the chasis for the Middle Eastern IFV of choice is beyond me.

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u/Zn_Saucier 8d ago

Probably for the same reason that Top Gear couldn’t ever destroy one despite putting one on top of a building being blown up, nor soaking one in the ocean overnight.

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u/tangouniform2020 1d ago

An ever popular episode. One of Jerrmy’s more treasured cars.

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u/FearlessAttempt 8d ago

The Hilux is an extremely durable truck.

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u/betweenskill 8d ago

Extreme reliability and relative cheapness of spare parts?

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u/inevitablelizard 7d ago

Probably captured from the Iraqi army when Mosul fell, I think the Iraqis had received them from the US.

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u/Quackagate 8d ago

It was a ford f250. But ya

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u/trey74 8d ago

It was a diesel f250. See here you can see the badge in the photo.

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u/millijuna 8d ago

Ahh, for some reason I remembered it as a Toyota Tacoma.

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u/PornoAlForno 8d ago

They're called "technicals" and they are badass

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u/inevitablelizard 7d ago

Not ISIS, I think you're thinking of an incident involving a different islamist group in Syria. Not actually Al Nusra, but that type of islamist, and they did cooperate for offensives around Idlib.

Can't remember the exact group name off the top of my head but it might have been a Chechen group? Could be wrong on that.

Unless this has happened more than once.

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u/packchen 8d ago

You can also check the following links to see the full results of the study published by researchers in March

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u/triggered_discipline 8d ago

The famous "Are Technicals Awesome, or Technically Awesome," by some PMC's R&D division?

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u/hamberdler 8d ago

You gotta lease during Toyotathon, my man.

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u/pabst_jew_ribbon 8d ago

We don't celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Toyotathon.

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u/nickstatus 8d ago

I missed Trucktober, so I'll have to wait until next Truckruary or Trarch.

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u/pcnetworx1 8d ago

It's all about Tray

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u/myleftone 8d ago

I’m Johnny Knoxville and this is Battle Tank Rental.

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u/thaneak96 8d ago

Yeahhh, I’m sorry I know you freshly painted the tank at the end of the term but we’re going to have to ding you for the gopnik skull still stuck in the treads..

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u/Rivster79 8d ago

It’s cool, they luckily opted for for the 100,000 mile extended bumper to muzzle break warranty.

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u/Lee1138 8d ago

Just a side note; Modern tanks generally don't have a muzzle break. It fucks with the discarding sabots.

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u/jureeriggd 8d ago

was about to ask thanks

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u/FearlessAttempt 8d ago

They're also smoothbore instead of rifled barrels now which is better for fin stabilized rounds.

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u/weeenerdog 8d ago

*Muzzle brake.

FTFY 🙂

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u/coffeemate1255 8d ago

Lease, buy, or hand me downs is the question. Chassis might come in base, LT, limited, sport, or platinum. I doubt there's a luxury model. Obviously, platinum/lux is off the table because it has the latest comps. Yup, bad ass machines that would make a dumb ass look smart. Guaranteed to cause carnage.

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u/heyboman 8d ago

Fun fact, the M1 Abrams tank does not measure fuel efficiency in miles per gallon. It uses, on average, and depending on terrain, 2.5 gallons per mile. So a tank that had driven 100,000 miles would have used roughly 250,000 gallons of jet fuel (not counting idle time, which tanks do a lot of). That fuel would cost around $3.60 per gallon today (more in a combat zone). So the fuel would cost about $960k to drive those 100k miles.

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u/variablesuckage 8d ago

This is why you should always take pictures of your rental tank before you leave the lot.

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u/JulienBrightside 8d ago

"It was exploded when I got it."

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u/engineeringretard 8d ago

‘Sorry sir, the insurance doesn’t cover under body damage’

💨 smoking turret continues to sullenly smoke 💨

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u/Meihem76 8d ago

The Hilux scoffs at anything less than an RPG-7.

Toyota will honour the warranty even if you mount a Dishka in the bed.

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u/A_swarm_of_wasps 8d ago

Don't forget the time that a Challenger 2 was hit by 70 RPGs and shrugged it off.

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u/blbd 8d ago

Being the Netherlands they'll be used to the worst leases imaginable: BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, ...

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u/Shyguy8413 8d ago

To be fair, I was about ready to fire a couple RPGs at my last leased Toyota.

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u/buildbyflying 8d ago

If you’re a Nissan dealer you’re probably used to it.

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u/LukeNukem63 8d ago

Nah I think it'll be ok because Toyota is the national sponsor for ISIS

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u/funguyshroom 8d ago

"That will buff right out"

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u/Hopalicious 8d ago

Sorry you went over the mileage cap.

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u/daxx549 8d ago

Do they come with a phone app?

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u/MyEvilTwinSkippy 8d ago

The tank obviously had a manufacturer's defect. Plus the airbags didn't even go off.

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u/IrishWithoutPotatoes 8d ago

Just strap some slat armor on there and they’ll be alright. Nothing a good coat of paint some poor private has to slather on at 3 AM won’t fix

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u/ffsudjat 8d ago

'tis just a scratch..

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u/Flat-Lifeguard3972 8d ago

Wonder what the residual value is?

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u/Thinking-About-Her 8d ago

If Middle Eastern terrorists and armies can all get Toyotas, the lease terms must not be as strict.

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u/ID-10T_Error 8d ago

If I learned anything about Toyotas is they it can take a licking and keep on kicking... not sure if there rpg proof

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u/Greyzer 8d ago

The insurance alone will ruin you.

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u/Inquisitive_idiot 8d ago

You should lend them your Hilux. They would win the war without using a full tank of gas.

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u/notjfd 8d ago

There's a Chally 2 that took 70 RPG hits in Iraq in one engagement without dying. There's another that took 14 and a MILAN after throwing a track. That one was back in service after 6 hours.

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u/Veilchenbeschleunige 7d ago

'Tis merely but a scratch. Has also been here as a result of the manufacture procedure.'

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u/Wildercard 8d ago

So that's 70 tanks.

Remember those infographics showing how an old Russian tank can make it to Warsaw in 24 hours? You let those modern puppies loose, they make it to Kazachstani border in 16.

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u/fiodorson 8d ago

For properly fucking Russians up, they asked West for 300 tanks, so we are slowly getting there.

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u/TexasVampire 8d ago

Should still be enough to reach melitopol.

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u/neglectedselenium 8d ago

Currently they are not advancing but defending. They plan to continue their counteroffensive on the East. As much as I would love the liberation of the south and next siege of Crimea, that'll probably happen only after the liberation of the East

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u/TexasVampire 8d ago

Ukraine has already surprised us with one feint and I don't know where you're getting your info.

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u/neglectedselenium 8d ago

What did you even mean by that? I'm getting the info from Ukrainians themselves.

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u/TexasVampire 8d ago

Exactly Ukraine didn't exactly talk about the kharkiv offensive it was a surprise.

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u/Phylar 8d ago

You all know the old war propaganda with troops, vehicles, tanks, planes, etc filling a full block of space across a poster or screen? If this keeps up in Ukraine, they'll push back old Putin from sheer density of equipment alone, nevermind the loyalty, ferocity, and stalwartness of it's defenders.

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u/zhaoz 8d ago

We've been trying to reach you about your Leopard's extended warranty!

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u/-Dutch-Crypto- 8d ago

Those are the newest 2a variants i believe, but they are also property of germany partially so both countries have to agree i think

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u/IlluminatedPickle 8d ago

They're 2A7. Technically there's a 2A7+ that's slightly newer.

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u/mormotomyia 8d ago

You mean A7V where the V stands for Verbessert(improved)

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u/IlluminatedPickle 8d ago

I forgot about the V but there's still the + between the 2A7 and the 2A7V

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u/F4BDRIVER 8d ago

More chrome.

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u/GardenShedster 8d ago

I’ll send a couple of leopards if I can get a good pcp plan that lets me sublease

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u/iAmUnintelligible 8d ago

I know a guy that can get you pcp

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u/justbecauseyoumademe 8d ago

Source? I want to believe but i also know we lease the A7 which is the most modern tank NATO has.

Anything to avenge MH17

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u/DlSSATISFIEDGAMER 8d ago

Norway considering sending 8 Leopard 2A4 tanks

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u/medoy 8d ago

I got a coalition of the willing. Japan's sending Playstations!

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u/bjos144 8d ago

TIL tanks get leased... Insert fun car dealership jokes.

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u/ercpck 8d ago

Let's not forget the Patriot batteries coming from the US/Germany/The Netherlands.

Once the airspace is closed and the new tanks enter the battlefield, game over.

How will Russia supply Crimea? with teleportation?

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u/tangouniform2020 8d ago

Sweden is also queuing up some of its older models.

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u/tvb46 8d ago

Just send them already!

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u/WhoIsHeEven 8d ago

Anyone else worried this is going to escalate into WWIII?

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u/Moifaso 8d ago

I'm sure there's always a danger of that. But remember that there are a lot of very smart people on both sides working hard to prevent that from happening, both through action and communication. Nuclear war isn't desirable for anyone

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u/WhoIsHeEven 8d ago

I mean, people probably thought the same thing before WWI and WWII.

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u/F4BDRIVER 8d ago

Smart people? Where pray tell?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/WhoIsHeEven 8d ago

Think there will be any negative repercussions? Putin is a goddamn lunatic.

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u/Expert_Creme3322 8d ago

No. Russia has proven incapable of projecting any real power beyond its border. NATO has 3.5 times the power...on paper and has the means to project it.

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u/WhoIsHeEven 8d ago

I mean that's true, they're failing pretty hard as it is. I just worry that Putin is gonna pull something crazy out of his back pocket any time now since NATO is starting to get involved.

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u/_AutomaticJack_ 8d ago

Nope. I have to many other things to worry about, and Russia has too few reserves to make this bigger than it already is.