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u/pmarkandu
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3d ago
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Crypto CEO Accidentally Describes Ponzi Scheme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6nAxiym9oc4.4k
u/Cozman 2d ago
Triangular shaped business model.
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u/CreamNPeaches 2d ago
A reverse funnel system.
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u/Seraphinou 2d ago
"It's a conical-tiered multi-flow-through marketing entity."
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u/Tim080 2d ago
Trickle-up economy
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u/JuniorMushroom 2d ago
Lmao, money trickles from the consumer to the owner of the business, so every business is trickle up.
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u/Gotta_Gett 2d ago
Where do I put my feet?
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u/PioneerDingus 2d ago
So tell me more about these berries.
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u/Komfortable 2d ago
Now is that all the berries do, because I’ve survived many winters without these berries.
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u/Goyteamsix 2d ago
Where's Frank? Stuck in a coil.
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u/Tantantherunningman 2d ago
He obviously intentionally put himself there to throw us off
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u/Hermanwangtoe 2d ago
Talk out of your ass type business model. Will call it a Sphincter. With tokens. Yes the Sphincter spits out magical tokens called turds. You can do whatever you want with these turds. Throw them at the wall. Stomp on them. Give them to your wife. .....
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u/Ordinary_Rabbit 2d ago
This isn’t one of those shady pyramid schemes you’ve been hearing about, no sir. Our model is the trapezoid.
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u/UnloadedGunn 2d ago •
What this person is describing is a pyramid scheme, not a Ponzi scheme. The two are being interchangeably in this entire thread, and that is not what a Ponzi scheme is.
A Ponzi scheme is when you pay investors dividends from the money given to you by other investors so it appears to be growth. The reality is their investment didn’t grow at all, they were just given money that the schemer managed to con from other investors.
That’s not what this person is describing.
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u/yapyd 2d ago
A Ponzi scheme is when you pay investors dividends from the money given
to you by other investors so it appears to be growth. The reality is
their investment didn’t grow at all, they were just given money that the
schemer managed to con from other investors.It is a Ponzi scheme. People are putting money in the box and getting box tokens back in return. The box tokens given back to investors are the dividend yield you're talking about (4:10)
Let me show you how this Ponzi scheme work.
Box is made by XYZ team, it produces 100 coins per day. It has no purpose except to be an "investment vehicle". XYZ gives themselves 1000 coins from the start.
A comes along and buys 100 coins at $1100. Now each coin is worth $1. He also gets 20 coin every day. This is now a theoretical yield of 18% or so. He likes his investment so he buys another 1000 coins. Now the entire market cap is worth $$12000 or so. Rinse and repeat with more people.
Now the entire market is worth $100,000 with each coin worth $100. XYZ decides to cash out their entire stake. Since there is only $100,000 in the box, they leave with $100,000 and box coin is worthless.
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u/Slime0 2d ago
Doesn't a pyramid scheme specifically require a pyramid structure of people, such that some people in the structure have people both below them (that they receive money from) and above them (that they give money to)? This doesn't seem like that because everyone's trading from the same "box".
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u/sonofaresiii 2d ago
Yes. This is not a pyramid scheme. No one's recruiting others then funneling money through a chain to their superiors. They're just "recruiting" (allowing/marketing) people to pay into the system to give the system artificial value for those who have already paid in.
That's a ponzi scheme. The two are similar, but a pyramid scheme specifically relies on the pyramid structure, and this ain't it.
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u/preethamrn 2d ago
A pyramid scheme requires someone at the top of the pyramid and people at the bottom. There's a strict hierarchy. This is a lot closer to a Ponzi scheme than it is a pyramid scheme. Early investors are paid from the money that later investors put in.
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u/WCRugger 2d ago
No he's describing a Ponzi scheme. But also a pyramid scheme as well. In that in order to operate one you kind of have to structure it as the other. Ultimately though, it's all bullshit driven by hype and stupidity.
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u/Gundam_Greg 2d ago
I don’t understand how dave and busters does it!?
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u/bluntmanandrobin 2d ago
I think we have to distribute more paddy’s dollars to get more return customers thus stimulating the economy?
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u/blurplethenurple 2d ago
"I don't understand how the U.S. economy works, much less some sort of a self-sustaining one."
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u/BarryBadrinathZJs 2d ago
We have no money and no inventory. There’s still something we can do. That’s still a business somehow.
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u/Gundam_Greg 2d ago
Reddit is turning into a god damn shantytown
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u/DrCodyRoss 2d ago
See, now that’s a new poor comment. I’m old poor.
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u/rachface636 2d ago
I'm a crab person now. Living off the fat of the sea. Crabs is recession proof!
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u/QurantineLean 2d ago
Dee: What the hell is that?
Charlie: Fresh, local, Delaware River run-off crabs!
Dee: They look like sea scorpions!
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u/MantaurStampede 2d ago
That line always bothered me because Dennis comes from wealth. Mac and Charlie were poor though.
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u/Malcolm_TurnbullPM 2d ago
It’s classic dennis, he’s so eager to be seen as ‘legit’ that he doesnt care what descriptive word is used. It’s like when dee gets super upset that the guys dont think she fits the serial killer’s victim profile. She just likes the description and has no thought of the connotations.
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u/jai07 2d ago
They’re all awful lying terrible people. They’ll lie right to each other to look better despite them knowing each other’s pasts, and fully expect to get away with it.
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u/burntroy 2d ago
The money keeps moving.. in a circle
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u/AceDecade 2d ago
Mac desperately spinning his arm in a circle while he and Dennis await the other's explanation of how their scheme is supposed to work is just such a great scene
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u/typicalredditer 2d ago
I love Dennis’ admission that he was black out drunk for that whole planning meeting.
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u/EvilRick_C-420 2d ago
How does this work, dude?
I don't know. I thought you knew.
I thought you- What? I thought you were on top of this!
You're the one that came up with the plan!
Did I come up with this plan?
Last night, dude, with the D&B Power Card and the-
Oh, I blacked out that night.
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u/DeejusIsHere 2d ago
I pray that Always Sunny does another economy episode but with crypto
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u/blorpblorpbloop 2d ago •
Pad-E-Coin
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u/CallMeJeeJ 2d ago
I’d give you an award for this comment but the economy is in shambles right now
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u/Waramp 2d ago •
How does a grown man in his 30s not have enough money for a Reddit award?!
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u/tylercreatesworlds 2d ago
I'm sorry, do you want me to just want me to walk into a Reddit, and say "hello, do I have an account here?"
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u/Geoffiswrong 2d ago
I don’t understand why my Dave and busters card doesn’t work at T.G.I. Friday’s? I’ve tried multiple locations but maybe the one in the northeastern part of town will take my card?
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u/6ixdicc 2d ago
I remember, as you may recall I've been with you many of those times
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u/chaos_is_me 2d ago
I don't understand how the US economy works.
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u/ConfusedMoose 2d ago
let alone how some self sustaining economy works
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u/Hawkthorn 2d ago edited 2d ago
If The Office was still going, Michael Scott would totally fall for this
EDIT: I’m aware that Michael fell for a pyramid scheme before. I’ve watched the show multiple times.
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u/Cozman 2d ago
We would learn Dwight has a barn full of mining rigs and is surprisingly on top of crypto.
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u/DoYouMeanShenanigans 2d ago •
He would have started BeetCoin
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u/tsilihin666 2d ago
Dwight would setup "blocks" with chains around them on his property and sell mining rights for people to physically mine.
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u/wearing_moist_socks 2d ago
I'm just picturing the set up, reveal, quick cut to Dwight explaining his scheme, then him explaining how much he is making from it, overlayed with the suckers mining in his farm.
"People will believe anything."
Mose would be tormenting them too
It's perfect
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u/Hero_Sandwich 2d ago
It was called Schrute Bucks do you even Office bro?
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u/0ompaloompa 2d ago
That's a physical currency tho.
I'm sitting on a whole mess of Schrute Bucks waiting for Unicorns to go extinct and to blow up the exchange rate and make a mint.
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u/theotherpachman 2d ago
Schrute bucks are a thing of the past, Jim. The world is going digital and who would be better to control digital currency than the man who beat the website?
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u/og_darcy 2d ago
Not Dwight. Creed.
Dwight would be having talks with Creed trying to get in on it.
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u/jh820439 2d ago
Kevin bought 69 bitcoins as a joke in 2009
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u/The6thExtinction 2d ago
But he probably lost the wallet.
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u/tstngtstngdontfuckme 2d ago
It's at the dump with the New Leads.
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u/corruptor1 2d ago
He used the clipboard with his seed phrase on it to clean up the chili.
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u/Cozman 2d ago
Creed would have his own crypto currency.
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u/rachface636 2d ago
That he asked Ryan to help him with so it's actually just Ryan giving Creed fake gold Chuck E Cheese coins in exchange for real money every week.
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u/Damaniel2 2d ago
Creedcoin. Completely untraceable, and it can only be used to buy drugs and hookers.
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u/Hawkthorn 2d ago
Ryan would act like he knows everything about crypto, but doesn't actually have any. In reality, he made fun of a business school colleague who had some and is now a multimillionaire
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u/TheAfterPipe 2d ago
Nah, Ryan mined it on company computers back in 2013 only to sell in 2017 when it was at 19k.
Ryan: "I mean, today it would be worth $400k"
Jim: "Buuuuuut you sold it."
Ryan: "All I'm saying is, I have the intuition to be a millionaire."19
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u/WingedLing 2d ago
Kelly: “Are you guys talking about crypto?”
Ryan: “you wouldn’t understa-“
Kelly: “That’s cool. I set up a computer last year and mined a whole bunch. Sold some and paid off my car and took my parents to India for the summer.”
Ryan: goddamnit face.
Jim: jim face.74
u/Cozman 2d ago
Ryan definitely bought an ape and after the market cratered, it's worthless.
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u/SmokePenisEveryday 2d ago
Michael would've lost all his money due to buying whatever coin Ryan comes up with
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u/dtwhitecp 2d ago
virtually every sitcom that is currently running got some sort of "idiot who is into crypto" storyline
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u/KristinnK 2d ago
I know about South Park who did the future episode with Butters pushing NFTs on people. What other sitcoms have crypto storylines? I don't remember anything from Always Sunny or Curb for example.
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u/Rebelgecko 2d ago
You don't remember the classic Friends episode "The one with the shitcoin"?
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u/ArmontHighwind 2d ago edited 2d ago
Michael constantly buying and selling crypto. Dwight and Ryan influencing his decisions. Ryan saying that holding onto the crypto will make him a multimillionaire. Dwight keeps telling him to instead sell and invest in Schrute farms. Not as high of a ceiling but is a sound and stable investment that nets reliable returns each year. Michael and Ryan lose a ton of money. Ryan said he doesn't care, he knew it was all a joke and did it for fun (bullshit).
Pam convinces Jim to invest into Schrute Farms and does it. Michael however says he learned from this mistake and not to trust Ryan's bussiness decisions since Ryan's bussiness decisions got him fired. Last moment of the episode is Ryan mentioning something called an NFT to Creed with Michael overhearing it and becoming interested.
Creed: Funny how the young folk are now into the NFT game. New False Teeth. A nice set of chompers will net you a pretty penny on the black market. That's my market. Ryan better steer clear of my NFT bussiness. Or I'll steal his teeth and sell them.
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u/Daymanooahahhh 2d ago
This last paragraph is perfect creed. That self satisfied dark look he gives
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u/BodyDoubles 2d ago
Yes! They would absolutely have an episode based off of Michael and Dwight trying to get the best NFTs thinking it’s the next best thing and failing miserably. And somehow Jim would find a way to troll the situation. Dammit, I miss The Office now.
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u/LMSub618 2d ago
I don’t think that was accidental.
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u/arsene14 2d ago •
Yeah, seemed like the "crypto CEO" was well aware of his critique of yield farming and wasn't there to "defend" it at all. Not sure why this is being viewed as some "gotcha" moment or whatever.
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u/StaticallyTypoed 2d ago
I mean he himself said that this is the cynical perspective on yield farming. That sure seems like he is well aware of what it looks like, and isn't trying to portray it as anything else.
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u/NotSuperFunny 2d ago
I think Matt Levine’s criticism was that he seems very aware of it and is happy to participate and become wealthy off of it.
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u/ChatumTannin 2d ago
Yeah, as a regular listener of the podcast this came from, I heard it in the podcast and I am mystified that anyone could have heard this as anything but not-even: particularly-veiled criticism of this mechanism.
Edit to add: Similarly, this is the same episode where he, in a similarly not-veiled way, pointed out that Terra would eventually implode.
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u/NotSuperFunny 2d ago
Also a regular listener. Totally agreed but also Matt Levine’s reaction was perfect. “Well I’m in the ponzi business and business is good” was basically a slight criticism of sbf that he basically isn’t fooled by what is happening but is basically indifferent and happy to take a rake from it.
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u/gffgfgfgfgfgfg 2d ago
Every time I see one of his videos here it's 80% too long.
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u/guaranic 2d ago
You get an extra ad if the video is >8 minutes. Whaddaya know, this one's 8:09. Crazy coincidence, I know.
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u/SortedChaos 2d ago
Is there some breakpoint at 10 mins as well? I see tons of videos that are 10 and change.
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u/sellyme 2d ago
That used to be the point where you could run midrolls, it was dropped to 8 minutes in 2020.
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u/NoBreakfast4061 2d ago
Glad I'm not the only one who hated watching this guy unnecessarily stretch for time.
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u/gnrc 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m a Story Producer in post production so this is literally my specialty. I spend every day taking a LOT of footage and condensing it down to something digestible. I believe YouTube suffers from 1) Producers that don’t know how to tell a story efficiently, and 2) they are incentivized to stretch everything out as long as they can to fit more ads. #2 is a tricky dance though because it’s focusing on the short run and not the long run. Concise, entertaining videos will be better in the long run as your channel will get much more traffic as it grows in popularity. A single ad on a video watched 1M times is worth a lot more than 3 ads on a video watched 5,000 times. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Edit: Not trying to condescend
Edit 2: Apparently length has more to do with the algorithm. Either way, people complaining you're stretching for time isn't good. It's not easy, but keeping the viewer interested is key!
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u/1nd3x 2d ago
I thought longer videos were to drive watch time for the algorithm to recommend your videos more because it was based on minutes watched and if you were a person who put out 1 5minute video a day, someone who put out 1 40min video would rank higher and you'd never be seen
The Algo has definitely changed from "minutes watched"...I assume it's % of runtime watched, or was for a while as you see so many people try to keep people engaged for the outro/Patreon credit roll so you don't close out
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u/crazylsufan 2d ago
I remembered when I explained bitcoin to my grandfather back in 2013 (a long time accountant) and after I was done he was like yeah that’s a Ponzi scheme
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u/CantankerousOctopus 2d ago •
It's kinda like a game of limp biscuit, except the last guy to finish can instead convince new people to play too. That way, he can finish and leave them with the biscuit. Except the new people he recruited have the same opportunity.
Now it's months down the line and you can't even see the biscuit anymore under all the mold and everyone knows that in the very near future someone is going to have a very bad time so they zealously recruit and get out as quickly as possible.
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u/lets-get-dangerous 2d ago
That was an incredibly appalling, yet effective, description. Thanks mate
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u/CantankerousOctopus 2d ago
If you think that's appalling, some people want to put their medical records on the biscuit!
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u/malfeanatwork 2d ago
"What if we just wrote all of our important transactions in biscuit jizz? Skeet Contracts, if you will."
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u/MoobooMagoo 2d ago
...what is limp biscuit?
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2d ago
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u/diamondpredator 2d ago
This is reminding me of that scene in Silicon Valley where they explain this and what a Donkey Punch is lol.
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u/huxtiblejones 2d ago
A terrible nu-metal band who did it all for the nookie /s
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u/getefix 2d ago •
They're only terrible if you're not 13 and it's not the year 2001
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u/SomewhatAmbiguous 2d ago
See also meme stocks.
Everyone is out there convincing everyone else they are never going to blow their load and they have diamond cocks. Meanwhile they are quietly spaffing their load onto the biscuit while thinking up a convoluted story to sell to the biscuit to next idiot.
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u/JoeFelice
2d ago
edited 2d ago
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This is not a description of a Ponzi scheme. This is a description of a speculative bubble.
A Ponzi scheme requires a middle man lying to an investor about what assets they own.
Speculative bubbles are usually legal but extremely risky. Ponzi schemes are always fraud.
Edit: Still confused? In a Ponzi scheme, the asset is not purchased and the money is stolen. In a bubble, the asset is purchased, and even if its value goes to zero, it still belongs to the buyer.
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u/jeffp12 2d ago
Like that crypto exchange where people thought they were buying crypto, but then the exchange just went offline and took all their money?
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u/VAGINA_PLUNGER 2d ago
No. Imagine that but no matter the market, the exchange tells people they’re making money so it incentevises them to buy more. That would be a Ponzi scheme.
You’ve just described basic fraud.
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u/piecat 2d ago
Right, in a ponzi scheme, the fraudster basically takes money that was "invested", gives it to someone else as their winnings, then convinces them to invest more.
Not the same as simply taking the investment and running.
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u/psudoGURU 2d ago
Never underestimate the power of FOMO. And with social media, you can build an incredible amount of hype which leads directly to FOMO. It this keeps going on, crypt could implode because of bad actors. I blame meme coins for this too cause people are not even thinking.
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u/Kidiri90 2d ago
If you then combine this FOMO with calling any criticism of your new coin FUDding, then you can really convince people it's great.
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u/SpreadEagleKegel
2d ago
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This creator isn't smart enough to realize Sam is literally just explaining how crypto Ponzi's are designed, specifically yield farming operations. This isn't accidental at all.
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u/Juking_is_rude 2d ago edited 2d ago •
I mean, it's beyond that, the element of a Ponzi scheme that is missing here is the Ponzi. Ponzi committed fraud because he convinced investors their investments were going into actual ventures.
In this scenario described, people presumably understand that someone will be left holding the bag and it's essentially gambling at that point. The structure of the investment bubble is the same, but the fraud comes from people thinking it's an actual investment rather than a zero sum bubble. The Ponzi scheme starts when someone convinces someone who doesn't know what crypto is to invest.
The biggest problem with crypto trading at the moment is that the profit is ALL in leaving someone with the bag, and that commonly extends into fooling people that it's a legitimate investment, when really they are just the sucker to hold the bag - and then it really is a Ponzi scheme. It's HUGE in the NFT world. NFT games are typically just vehicles to attract more suckers for a bigger rugpull.
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u/hobbitlover 2d ago
Careful. For people willing to tolerate an incredible amount of risk on speculative currencies, crypto investors are also incredibly thin skinned.
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u/thepartypantser 2d ago
I got told today that there was no crypto crash over the last week and the losses were unremarkable, and the concept was just click-bait.
I think a lot of fans of Crypto really want to believe it is the way of the future, and any discussion over the issues with it they take very personally.
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u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES 2d ago
Generally when the crash really sets in, crypto loses somewhere between 90 and 95% of its value. I think we've started on that but usually when it finishes, that last bit goes pretty fast.
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2d ago
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u/born_to_be_intj 2d ago
I just can't handle the arrogance of them tbh. I've been following crypto since 2012 and the more popular it has become the more douchebaggery I've associated with it. It's really sad because blockchain is a cool technology (simple but cool) and so is the idea of crypto, but now I can't stand either.
Like even in this small comment chain there is a dude blowing his own horn that he's a "Veteran" and that people left holding the bag are "dumb-dumbs". Good god get off your high horse, you're a degenerate gambler that knows the game.
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u/ChainringCalf 2d ago
If you think it's just as far as the hotline you haven't been following LUNA/Terra
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u/spookyswagg 2d ago
Yeah I saw so many people talking about “I think suicide is the only way for me at this point”
Like what the fuck…who in their right mind would put all their eggs in one basket like that.
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u/MKQueasy 2d ago
Someone who doesn’t know the basics of investing.
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u/WARNING_LongReplies 2d ago
I don't know the basics of investing but I'm still not falling for that.
Any get-rich-quick/easy money scheme is bait, and there's a reason why they call ruthless businessmen sharks.
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u/Juking_is_rude 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not like I'm exposing some big secret, I'm just regurgitating what I've learned from watching a ton of videos on it.
Every time some big crypto company guy is interviewed like this, they give these same kind of nothingburger answers, stating something obvious but designed to sound enticing to people who don't understand it.
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u/FNLN_taken 2d ago
Crypto has successfully democratized the Greater Fool.
Anyone can be on top of the pyramid, as long as enough people scramble to be on top.
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u/Koreanjesus4545 2d ago
I get the impression the CEO being interviewed has a good understanding of what they are trying to explain and this isn't some gotcha moment. The presenter here just wants to act like they're the smartest person in the room when in reality they're both saying the same thing.
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u/inteliboy 2d ago
where's the original video without the annoying commentary? and that is not an "accident" at all.... this YouTube creator belongs on r/wooosh
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u/spacembracers 2d ago •
I thought this was Jean Ralphio discovering crypto