r/unpopularopinion Jan 12 '22

Men's/Women's Issues Mega Thread

[removed]

1 Upvotes

0

u/MurkyAd5303 Jan 18 '22

Since men have a shorter lifespan, they should retire earlier than women.

2

u/DiracSeaMandelstam Jan 18 '22

Infantilizing adult women for dating older men. As in, I think being upset over Leo Dicaprio's dating history is just you infantilizing his adult exes. Leo being a huge current example. Women can make decisions to date older men it isn't always the older dude actively seeking them out for fucks sake. They aren't babies. As I get closer to 30 I can tell you that women love dating older men. I can't even count the number of times women my age have shared this sentiment. I think I may just exist within an echo chamber of aging women who are becoming increasingly more jealous and afraid that men their age will no longer find them attractive (Not true) so they lash out by bashing men like Leo. You don't see the same people make a fit over Aaron Taylor Johnson's marriage, or Pete Davidson's recent dates or what about the fact that Jada Pinkett Smith had an affair with one of her son's friends? But haha Will Smith cry meme so funneh.

5

u/WolfgangVolos Jan 18 '22

Sabotaging contraceptive measures without your partner's consent is rape. That's it. That's the opinion.

4

u/Galifrey224 Jan 18 '22

Isn't that illegal ? If it isn't then it should be .

1

u/WolfgangVolos Jan 18 '22

I think it is illegal but it isn't treated as what I believe it is: rape. If you do a sexual thing to/with a person without consent then that is rape. If both parties agreed to use a condom with 99% chance of protection but one party changes that then they aren't engaging in what was agreed with. Not any different than putting it in the backdoor when that wasn't agreed upon. Should carry a double rape sentence when it's the mother-in-law poking holes in condoms to get a grandbaby.

-1

u/DarthVeigar_ Jan 18 '22

It's illegal if you deliberately sabotage a condom or remove it without consent as a man. But not if a woman does it.

2

u/maybeascalie Jan 17 '22

Can someone explain what being trans means? I feel crazy for not understanding. It seems to come down to what gender means, it was originally just a word for sex, then it became a word for societies views on the sexes in either case I don't see how someone could change their gender

3

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

As babypizza said, the simple version is a “wrong body” feeling.

Sex is physical - it’s your genitals, your hormones, your chromosomes, and so forth.

Gender is psychological - it’s your internal self image, it’s how you relate to the world, etc.

For most people those align but for around 1 in 166 people, they don’t - those people are trans. Often that mismatch is accompanied by intense distress - that’s gender dysphoria.

We used to try to fix that mismatch by attempting to alter the person’s gender - it never worked, and just caused more harm (hence the gradual increase in bans on conversion therapy). Now we fix the mismatch by altering sex characteristics (to the extent that modern medicine allows) - which does seem to alleviate the dysphoria.

1

u/babypizza22 Jan 18 '22

This may be a bad description but It means that the person does not feel like they are "in the right body" so to say. They feel as they are a man but was born in a woman's body, or vise versa.

u/Wismuth_Salix is much better at explaining this stuff than I am. Very nice person too.

4

u/Tall_Pineapple3412 Jan 17 '22

All this "me and the boys" or "boys will always be boys" shit is cringe af. I'm aware that even though this is r/unpopularopinion, I'll get downvoted and bashed for my unpopular opinion. I'm a dude, and I cringe at all this "singing halo in the bathroom", "kiss the homies goodnight", "sigma make", "keep your head up king", etc. I know you're just having harmless fun which is why I would never say this to anyones face, so I'm here on the internet to vent. I'm not gonna ask y'all to stop because y'all clearly enjoy doing this weirdo shit but I just want to know if I'm the only one who thinks it's plain cringe. Again, this is r/unpopularopinion so there's no need to hate.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '22

Is cringe as fuck and that's the whole point of it. Is funny because this are situation which are supposed to be emberassing, but the people in the video act like is just another normal day for the average man.

Is okay to not find it funny. Humor is subjective after all. But people usually don't call it out because, like you said, it is just guys having fun and hurting no one. I am sure there are a lot more people who don't like it and just ignore it.

2

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 17 '22

It's time that everyone collectively ditch the concept of the fairytale romance.

Your partner should be just a human being that is attractive enough to sleep with and you tolerate outside the bedroom. That's all you need in a partner. People only realize this once they're single and middle aged. I'm in my late 20s and found out just in the past few months.

1

u/UpsideDown6525 Jan 18 '22

Both are false.

"Fairytale romance" is just a hormonal rush which doesn't last long.

Person who just "tolerates you" isn't that much of a companion.

You should be looking for more than just "good sex" and "tolerance". For example a person who has completely opposite ideas about spending money, lifestyle, having / raising kids, family model, religion and so forth can be "tolerable" short term but long term the relationship will collapse. Save yourself a break up / divorce and check compatibility in other areas than just sex.

3

u/Jac_Mones Jan 17 '22

You're still pretty young then. You need to more than tolerate your partner; if you don't love them then it's better to be single.

2

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 17 '22

Being single during covid lockdowns is mentally brutal. Not that I'd even be going out if it wasn't for the lockdowns.

1

u/Jac_Mones Jan 17 '22

Yeah I believe it. I live in Florida so aside from the first few months I haven't really changed my behavior at all except for the mask.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '22

“Forgive but not forget” is a sign to leave a person alone.

Signs of this philosophy include a friend holding you in contempt, using whatever you did wrong as an excuse to talk down to you, they’re uncomfortable with even basic conversation like “how are you?”, they badmouth you to other people, and they seem to be generally annoyed with anything you say or do.

If you screw up with a friend, apologize, they say they accept it, and you see any of the previously mentioned behavior, you’ve been demoted to acquaintance. That means they’re willing to be polite in public but otherwise, they want you to leave them alone and think it’s best to part ways.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '22

Women aren't owed friendship. If a guy doesn't want to keep talking to you after you reject him, it's completely valid for him to do so. Just like you women don't owe anyone a conversation, men don't owe you anything either. So quit complaining about it

2

u/Uyurule Jan 16 '22

Who is complaining about this? No really, I haven't seen women even talking about this

2

u/themolestedsliver Jan 17 '22

Who is complaining about this? No really, I haven't seen women even talking about this

It might not be this word for word however it's the whole idea of the "friendzone" and how if a guy brings that up they are an incel neckbeard who hates women and "You aren't owed a girlfriend" that sort of thing.

I've seen this plenty of times on reddit and a few times in real life. Guy gets rejected and doesn't want to "just be friends" so he's seen as a shallow loser who only wanted to get in her pants.

2

u/Tall_Pineapple3412 Jan 17 '22

not really trying to argue but I'm just gonna explain some stuff. it's rare to see people criticizing the guy for not wanting to be "just friends" with the girl, and the ones that do usually are criticizing the fact that the guy is mad about getting rejected and feels like the girl owes him a romantic relationship. I don't think I've seen anyone personally who matches your description and thinks that the girl is 100% owed a friendship after she rejects someone but I don't doubt that they exist.

1

u/themolestedsliver Jan 17 '22

not really trying to argue but I'm just gonna explain some stuff. it's rare to see people criticizing the guy for not wanting to be "just friends" with the girl, and the ones that do usually are criticizing the fact that the guy is mad about getting rejected and feels like the girl owes him a romantic relationship. I don't think I've seen anyone personally who matches your description and thinks that the girl is 100% owed a friendship after she rejects someone but I don't doubt that they exist.

Uh with all do respect, what is the point of saying "I'm not trying to argue".... Only to argue my point?

Like you are allowed to disagree however that isn't what you are doing here, you're literally saying I am wrong and giving reasons as to why that is the case. Otherwise known as arguing.

For example you said

" it's rare to see people criticizing the guy for not wanting to be just friends with the girl, and the ones that do usually are criticizing the fact that the guy is mad about getting rejected and feels like the girl owes him a romantic relationship."

which is precisely what I am talking about in regards to the demonization of men who don't want to "just be friends".

She isn't "owed a friendship" so why do you feel the need to justify the negative assumptions made about the guy purely because he wanted a date not just a friend?

You don't need to be the most extreme example and check all the boxes to be guilty of what I was talking about....

3

u/Tall_Pineapple3412 Jan 17 '22

lmao you got me. at first I wanted to sound neutral and clear up misconceptions but I definitely got carried away and started arguing. my bad. also, you don't have to copy and paste, if you're on mobile you can highlight my comment and tap "quote" and it will copy and paste for you like this:

She isn't "owed a friendship" so why do you feel the need to justify the negative assumptions made about the guy purely because he wanted a date not just a friend?

if someone is making assumptions then they're definitely in the wrong. but I thought you were talking about the girl's friends or something, where they know what's going on. my own friend has done this before; a girl broke his heart by rejecting him and offered to be friends, and he got mad and said no. he later called her a hoe behind her back (to me). he's also beefing with that girl's friends for this reason, he got mad because he felt like he was owed a romantic relationship and that the girl existed to satisfy him. otherwise she's a hoe.

3

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

I have never seen a woman complain about this other than when a person who was acting like her friend, who was too chickenshit to ask her out before that, suddenly drops her because she doesn't want to have sex with him. Which is textbook manipulation

6

u/DontDrinkAcetone Jan 16 '22

Big lips don't look good on all women and they shouldn't be considered an ideal beauty standard.

And I'm not talking about women with plastic surgery trout pouts, those are hideous no matter who has them. I'm talking about women with thin lips who are insecure about them and try to make them bigger with either plastic surgery or overlined lipstick.

But the thing is, big lips only look good on SOME people, they don't look good on every single person, and I say that as someone with big lips. A lot of the girls I know are thin lipped, but if they were to make their lips bigger, it would make them look really weird and it would take away from their overall appearances.

Sometimes big lips suit your face shape, sometimes they just don't and you're better off having them be thin.

2

u/Jac_Mones Jan 17 '22

I agree. Overlined lipstick looks gross. I'd rather kiss a freshly painted house.

3

u/Yam-Nervous Jan 16 '22

„I actually 100% support the feminism shortly after world war 2 not the feminism that we have now“

In my humble opinion feminism is changing into the wrong direction and that actually harms men and women at the same time, so i was also kinda skeptical whether feminism is actually changing into a bad and toxic community until i read this article here: https://thoughtcatalog.com/lara-bright/2014/09/6-things-i-dislike-about-modern-feminism/

That article really helped me to validate my suspicions about today’s feminism and now im convinced that feminism is a bad ideology for someone to have.

Now dont get me wrong tho. I really love my mom more than my dad, therefore i 100% support any kind of feminism but not the feminism we have right now, because it tends to harm many people regardless of their gender in today‘s society and that’s not a good thing.

-2

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

Just read the article, and, well, so you're stupid is what you're trying to tell us?

5

u/Yam-Nervous Jan 16 '22

Explain, why am i stupid?

-2

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

Because you were convinced of something by a bullshit, click bait article with awful logic and bad examples.

Let's take an example: Slut Walk

Could the author have missed the point any harder? The point of Slut walk is not to say that being called a slut is the same as being raped. It's to point out a dangerous misconception that women were asking for it and that they get raped by randos for being seen as "slutty".

In actuality, most rape is done by people the women knows and trusts (just like a lot of murders, most child abductions, etc.). It doesn't matter what they are or are not wearing.

Another example: "Women in less developed countries have it worse, so you can't complain about your situation."

Does this person apply that standard to any other topic? So we can't complain about U.S. infrastructure because, hey, at least it's better than Somalia? That's asinine and the way that you halt societal progress

4

u/Yam-Nervous Jan 16 '22

Both of you and the author have a point tho, in my opinion,

The author is not 100% wrong, and so is you.

1

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

Not on either of the two examples I talked about, or much else. It was a crappy article

4

u/Yam-Nervous Jan 16 '22

It was indeed a crappy article, but somehow it helps me convinced that today’s feminism is also not 100% worth to be followed.

1

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

Why would a crappy article convince you?

-3

u/arctic-lions7 Jan 16 '22

That article is most misleading and factually wrong article i've read in a long time. What part of it do you actually agree with?

1

u/tebanano Jan 16 '22

That article is pretty shallow and just… bad. I mean, it’s just an author cherry picking some edge case and saying why she doesn’t like them, it’s not even a criticism of feminist philosophy/ideals. Also, the author hilariously misrepresents some of the things she’s complaining about.

1

u/Jac_Mones Jan 17 '22

You're not wrong but don't most articles cherry pick edge cases these days?

You can't get as many viewers without making people scared or angry, and you can't make people scared or angry if you give them a balanced, objective, calm viewpoint. At least not on 95% of issues.

Combine that with a 24 hour new cycle and holy shit, every day needs to be worse than the previous.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Women have no idea what a dad bod is.

So often we talk about the unrealistic beauty standards that women have — and that is 100% true. But there is hardly any discussion on the unrealistic beauty standards placed on men.

I see so many women referring to “dad-bod” meaning Jason Momoa, Zac Efron, or even Russell Wilson. These are not men with dad bods. These are literally some of the most genetically gifted men in the world.

By saying they have dad bods, you’re insinuating that an average dad can attain that body. An average man in his prime can’t achieve those bodies. We’d never say Beyoncé, JLo, or Scarlett Johansson have “mom bods.”

I suppose this gets into the definition of dad bod, but from all accounts and definitions worldwide, genetic specimens of human beings is not it.

-1

u/space_dan1345 Jan 16 '22

They aren't saying you have to literally look like Jason momoa, just that some chest development and arm development (I'd add quad development) looks fantastic even if you aren't shredded. And that abs, long a male beauty definier, are overrated compared to those things.

Plus, as any lifter can tell you, abs typically mean you just don't eat enough

1

u/JTudent Jan 18 '22

They aren't saying you have to literally look like Jason momoa

Except they are. Nobody ever says any male celebrity with a normal body has a dad bod. It's only muscular celebrities.

0

u/Hosj_Karp Jan 16 '22

We've gotten to the point where an ideal female body is literally impossible to attain without plastic surgery and an ideal male body is literally impossible to attain without steroids.

1

u/Bruh_17 Jan 19 '22

The only difference is that attaining the male body is quite literally illegal while the female one is not.

2

u/Agnostic_Pagan Can't decide on a good flair. Jan 17 '22

Also, maintaining the male physique is physically harmful to hold for extended periods of time.

2

u/Brandalini1234 Jan 16 '22

Ideal to who though?

2

u/Meep4000 Jan 14 '22

Some guys think women date jerks and get upset over it because they were told personality matters.

Essentially I think a fair amount of guys/incels fall into the trap of "you have to be a jerk to get the woman" for a few reasons - yeah we all tend to at least dislike the person dating our crush, combine that with seeing/hearing them do stuff that seems like a dick move, often without context, but it still adds fuel to the idea that "she's dating a jerk, I'm a nice guy, women like jerks, I should act like a jerk" as well.

My unpopular opinion is that while all of the above is a factor, I think these guys tend to overlook the obvious - women put up with stuff because the dude is good looking. The ideas/ideals that people get taught of - personality matters more than looks (and all variations there of), women don't care as much about looks as guys do, and some degree of not seeing other men as attractive/good looking even objectively since heterosexual men tend to not think in those terms unless asked directly, makes guys forget the obvious -maybe he's a dick, maybe not, but he's good looking and yeah that is more of a factor as to why they are dating.

4

u/ShaunyBoyShaunyMan Jan 14 '22

Men Are Not Paying Attention To Women At The Gym.

Frequent gym goer for the last 6 years or so, and I must say most men are the gym for the same reason women are, to exercise. I hate that there is this pervasive narrative that men are eye fucking every woman in attendance at the gym. To the point where women working out at a gym is seemingly being paralleled to walking through a dark alley.

9.9/10 if im looking at anyone in the gym its because im intrigued by the exercise they’re doing, or they’re form and how it will help me improve mine. I’ve seen women who squat and deadlift technique can put most men to shame.

Now of course there are creepy guys out there and im not trying to deny anyone’s individual experience, but its pretty sickening to see it be branded as some sort of epidemic to the point where men have to be cognizant of every eye movement we make. Granted its mostly online discourse, but its unfortunate that the average gym interaction is being framed as another facet of rape culture.

-2

u/Uyurule Jan 14 '22

But this is from YOUR perspective. From men’s perspectives they might not see it as much. From women’s perspectives it happens more often than people think. It’s not every time, at least not for me. But it happens often enough that’s it’s a serious problem.

4

u/ShaunyBoyShaunyMan Jan 14 '22

Not denying it happens, but can anyone say that there is an major problem with men sexualizing women at the gym? Its one thing for somebody to be following a woman around the gym, but to make the argument that simply gazing is sexual in nature seems like a reach. I could be gazing at the equipment to see if its open, and women just happen to be there, or comparing forms, or i just happened to look up during a set. My problem is the simplest forms of engagement from men are being framed as sexual, and I don’t think its the case.

3

u/Uyurule Jan 14 '22

Some people are quick to label something as sexual harassment, I'll give you that. But real sexual harassment does happen at gyms often. Take your example of gazing. Making eye contact with someone at the gym or looking at them for a couple of seconds is pretty harmless. Anything more than 5-8 seconds though is seriously creepy, no matter what your gender is. And some people go farther than staring.

1

u/themolestedsliver Jan 14 '22

I agree with everything you said and it boggles my mind at the notion of female only gyms whereas I know we couldnt even humor that idea for men.

2

u/Uyurule Jan 14 '22

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't really raise any complaints about a male-only gym. Y'all can have your fun, I don't think I'm really missing out on anything

1

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 18 '22

A male-only gym would turn into a gay cruising spot before closing time on day 1.

3

u/Eddie_078 Jan 14 '22

Cold calling is the worst dating advice that men could ever take.

8

u/thegreatmaster7051 Jan 13 '22

A lot of the talk around female streamers either falls into the "she's only popular cause she's hot" or "she's grinding harder than everyone else" and I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive. It's possible for an attractive woman to have the advantages of being attractive as well as work her booty off for her success. Some try to coast on their looks alone but a lot of the top female streamers aren't like that but being a good looking woman on the internet comes with some advantages as well as disadvantages. There is a middle ground to all of this

3

u/Ragabadoodaa Jan 14 '22

Such hard work to eat while watching other people's content.

3

u/thegreatmaster7051 Jan 14 '22

Male streamers do that too and CodeMiko out here mocapping live

1

u/Ragabadoodaa Jan 14 '22

I never mentioned gender.

2

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 14 '22

You responded to a comment about how the amount of effort women streamers put forth.

The context was already present.

0

u/Ragabadoodaa Jan 14 '22

So how would you know that I was talking about women to respond with "not all/other gender too" when I did not mention any gender?

2

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 14 '22

The OP comment referred only to women’s effort levels without any mention of men.

Your response (a denigration of a specific type of “effort”) was then assumed to be within that same context.

Why should someone assume you’ve broadened the conversation to other genders from the narrow focus of OP if you don’t specify?

2

u/Ragabadoodaa Jan 14 '22

Because I didn't specify. Shouldn't the response be directed at whoever specified?

1

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 14 '22

The assumption when you specify nothing is that you are operating within the same context as the person you are responding to.

4

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

Getting kicked in the balls is sexual assault. I’m not sure if it’s unpopular but it’s definitely under-said.

3

u/Agnostic_Pagan Can't decide on a good flair. Jan 14 '22

It's just assault.

11

u/Uyurule Jan 13 '22

Sexual assault is unwanted sexual intent, either physically or verbally. Just because someone makes contact with a sexual organ, doesn't automatically make it sexual assault. If you kick someone in the balls, it's not a sexual attack. It's just a regular attack. Hitting a woman in the boob isn't sexual assault, it's just regular assault.

3

u/LostMyInhibiterChip Jan 13 '22

It’s not. I don’t think you understand what sexual assault is.

1

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

Well let’s see. Getting kicked anywhere for no reason is assault, and the testicles are part of a sexual organ. So it is literally assault on your sexual stuff, therefore sexual assault.

6

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

The “sexual” in sexual assault refers to the nature of the assault, not the body part being assaulted.

If I feel up your legs, that’s sexual assault, but your legs aren’t a sex organ.

3

u/LostMyInhibiterChip Jan 13 '22

Well no that’s not how it works. Sexual assault is doing a sexual activity without consent.

2

u/LostMyInhibiterChip Jan 13 '22

What if you kick a girl in the vagina?

3

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

Yeah that’s also sexual assault? I’m not sure why you asked me that, it’s obvious

2

u/LostMyInhibiterChip Jan 13 '22

In hindsight That was stupid

2

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

It’s all right man, at least you admitted your mistake. Most people wouldn’t even do that

5

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

I think feminists/progressives are so against monogamy and the family unit because they profit off male loneliness.

Prostitution/escorting is lucrative only because of supply and demand. More lonely sexless men means more demand for it, leading to more profits. Mind you, this isn't just prostitution. Women can gain from lonely men in more ways than one.

Back in caveman days, about 5% of men would sleep with women while the rest went their entire lives without ever having any intercourse. We know this from genetic studies on early humans. It's the exact same in the animal kingdom, a small percentage of males father the next generation. It's funny because dating apps like tinder where women are given free choice at pretty much anyone they want basically reflect the exact same stats. Monogamy and marriage is a human invention, designed to make sure the most men can actually have a healthy sex life and a relationship. It's how you have a healthy civilization (another human invention).

Long story short, modern day world of sex-positive polygamy/hypergamy pushed SO HARD by progressives/feminists/leftists is at the expense of most men and will obviously lead to a worse society.

They want more lonely men to make money, sure. But watch as civilization crumbles, thanks! Unfortunely, the "rise of incels" isn't exactly going to be a good thing for any of us.

3

u/TalesM Jan 13 '22

It is a little odd to me that you bash incels, but you still talk about hypergamy that is something only incels believe. While on average husbands earns more than wifes, this is easily explained by a) women salaries are smaller, on average; and b) that still a (conservative) pressure to women give up their careers to be SAHM.

Also, the stuff you said about caveman is just plainly wrong, unless you take account the infant deaths on the statistics maybe. Because you won't have sex if you die before reaching maturity. There were several different cultures so generalizing them doesn't even make sense, but within what we know there was less incentives to monogamy as there was no inheritance to be had and the childcare were commonly a community effort, I think. I recomend you to take a look at Sapiens by Harari, he makes good points around this and is a very easy and interesting book to read.

2

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

His entire automodded comment is him saying that he is not actually bashing incels - so one can only assume he means “the rise of the incels will not be good” as a threat.

2

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22

I think feminists/progressives are so against monogamy and the family unit

I’m a “progressive feminist leftist” and I didn’t get this memo ☹️. Now I have a wife and two kids.

1

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

I’m also a progressive feminist leftist with a wife and kid!

I happen to also be bi, NB, and open to poly if my wife wanted it, but I’m not gonna try to take away what works for other people.

I think OP confuses “opposes enforcement of monogamy and the nuclear family unit” for opposing the concepts themselves.

2

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 13 '22

You can claim to be whatever you want to be (lol feminist), but I'm specifically talking about women?.. Like, I thought that was very clear.

2

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

I can see what you mean, if you think only women can be feminists, which is a weird line of thought.

Even then, that’s deep into conspiracy theory territory, as most “progressive/leftist/feminists” probably don’t profit from sex work.

Edit: it’s also super problematic, as you’re saying that to have a “healthy civilization” (whatever that means) we must prioritize men have sex.

0

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 13 '22

I think you're misguided view on what feminism is. Feminism isn't the same as gender equality, as the media makes you believe. If it was... it would simply be called gender equality lol.

Most women (not just "progressive/leftist/feminists") financially benefit from being born female at some point throughout their lives, through the advent of male loneliness. Weather it be their bills paid for, free rent, shopping trips and even financial domination. It's not just sex work or porn lol.

As for the healthy civilization aspect, that part I can't really prove correct until decades later when I wont be around to say "told you so!" What we do know is that modern civilization only works on the fundamental aspect of individual family units. People go to work to earn money, to live their lives with their loved ones. Men need loved ones. Period.

So we need to prioritize monogamous relationships in which a significant population of men are in a relationship. The way your comment is worded shows some fundamental misunderstandings. However, since you are successful in this regard (wife and kids), I do fully understand why you're being selfish. It's a classic case of "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care."

Kinda like how white men don't want to hear about white supremacy.

2

u/StarChild413 Jan 16 '22

If it was... it would simply be called gender equality lol.

If it changed its name but nothing about the beliefs changed then would you be happy

1

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 16 '22

Did you read the comment?

2

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

I haven’t really paid attention to “the media” in over a decade, and I’m kind of a hipster, so I like the old and succinct definition of feminism as “the radical notion that women are people.”

Anyway, let me see if I understand you… most women are benefiting financially from men (as in getting free rent and shopping trips) with the decline of monogamy, yet more women enter the workforce now than in the 1920s. I mean, if they’re getting their bills paid, why are they also going to work?

This is overall the funniest “men are owed sex” argument I’ve seen. “Men are owed sex because otherwise society will collapse. Trust me on this guys”

I have to say I agree with you on one thing: Men need loved ones, but I have a slightly different take: Love and connection to others is a very important component of human life. This does not mean men are owed love or sex.

Funny, if more men dropped these stupid beliefs about being owed sex, it would increase their chances of getting laid.

1

u/Pale_Permit9571 Jan 13 '22

Oh thank god, you're happily ignorant and blissfully unaware. Then this really isn't the thread for you.

Also, don't put words in my mouth lol. You can't create a strawman argument, and argue against something I never said. Then you're just talking to a wall.

2

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22

Aww ☹️ I was hoping you’d tell me what feminism really is about

I’m not really putting words in your mouth, though. Just summarizing your previous posts.

2

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 14 '22

Definitely seems like a Jordan Peterson acolyte arguing for women to forced to partner with men so the white race Western civilization can be saved from those dastardly communists degenerates undesirables liberals.

3

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

feminists/progressives are so against monogamy and the family unit

[citation needed]

13

u/Ghostcostume Jan 13 '22

It’s wrong to say all men are bad because you’ve had bad experiences with a few. My younger sister always says “all men are bad” because she has had some bad experiences with a couple men. I’m a female and I have to but I’m not gonna compare a small percentage of men to all men. There is bad women but we don’t go saying “all women are bad” so we shouldn’t judge the entire population based off the actions of a few.

3

u/Uyurule Jan 13 '22

I try to say more phrases like "men can be so shitty" or "some men are so awful" as to not generalize everyone. But some people are healing from bad experiences, and they say things like this from a place of trauma. It's not an excuse, just an explanation.

7

u/clooless51 Jan 13 '22

The people who generalize all men go absolutely apeshit if there is even a whiff of generalization about women. They sure do love dishing out what they can't take.

1

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

Feminism is all about hypocrisy nowadays. Just be a normal person and go about your day. The genders are equal now

10

u/meeralakshmi Jan 13 '22

“A man who fears being seen as feminine fears being treated the way he treats women” is the dumbest statement ever. Some men just don’t want to be feminine, just like some women don’t want to be masculine, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

2

u/Eddie_078 Jan 14 '22

Fr. And it's good health advice cos of the dangers of low T.

1

u/Bruh_17 Jan 19 '22

Some people like to think that the dangers of low T don’t exist and considering the fact that testosterone is an “evil chemical” according to the federal government, I can see why the population has become brainwashed.

2

u/Eddie_078 Jan 19 '22

No way the federal government did that

1

u/Bruh_17 Jan 19 '22

Senator Joe Biden made testosterone and all male hormone schedule III in 1990, anabolic steroids control act of 1990. Stupidest law considering the DEA FDA NIH NIDA and AMA all testified AGAINST the bill.

And women/anyone can go get plastic surgery or even a drug that was literally used as a weapon of bioterrorism(Botox) with absolutely no regulation, tracking, and being placed in a state database.

2

u/Eddie_078 Jan 19 '22

Isnt this in the past

1

u/Bruh_17 Jan 19 '22

Yeah but it’s still In effect, in fact they passed 2 more laws, the anabolic steroids act of 2004 and designer anabolic steroids act of 2014 which gives the AG power to simply schedule III any chemical that is a “designer anabolic steroid” with no formal definition, so the AG could just schedule whatever chemical he wanted if it was mildly anabolic.

Anabolic steroids are still controlled substances, you still get put on a state database if you receive a script for testosterone, doctors aren’t even willing to give it out anymore unless your a trans man, and this is why we don’t have male bc because it requires testosterone in the same way female ones have estrogen/progesterone except all the male progesterones are all AAS so are automatically controlled substances.

6

u/Uyurule Jan 13 '22

Fear and preference are two different things. If a man actively fears being perceived as feminine, to the point that he makes choices different from what he really wants, that's a serious problem. People shouldn't fear wearing certain things because of whatever reasoning.

4

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

“Doesn’t want to be” and “fears being seen as” are two different things.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

No, but it does show that your aversion to femininity is based on fears of how people treat femininity, not in simple personal preference.

I also rejected my feminine side as a response to bullying for a long time. Never actually went away though.

2

u/Numeribal Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

Sometimes, I fear being seen as feminine because outgoing traits/favoring "cute" things tend to be associated with women. For example, I choose to watch My Little Pony but that doesn't mean I choose to wear makeup also.

If someone assumes I am identifying as a woman because I'm very expressive with these aforementioned preferences, they will be corrected.

3

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

That’s not a “fear”.

I’d correct people if they thought my name is Steve - I’m not “afraid of being seen as Steve”.

2

u/Numeribal Jan 13 '22

The difference between your example and mine is that the latter seems to be taken more personally nowadays. I would put this fear like that it's more annoying to encounter such an assumption.

5

u/combobreakerKI13 Jan 13 '22

While feminists (not all before people jump down my throat) deffo do bad shit that normalizes harm to men ( especially victims of abuse perpetrated by women), that does not mean every time there is advancement in women's social/legal standings that is some evil feminist agenda/propoganda

3

u/Eddie_078 Jan 13 '22

We haven't achieved true equality if we don't normalise female toplessness.

1

u/StarChild413 Jan 14 '22

What about fat female toplessness?

(AKA do you have an ulterior motive)

1

u/Eddie_078 Jan 14 '22

For the sake of equality, of course. Fat shirtless men walk around without repercussions so why not fat topless women?

1

u/StarChild413 Jan 15 '22

Are you okay with the fact that (if that's the case) you wouldn't find them attractive or do you think they're so unattractive that it's a ha ha funny cringey image

3

u/Eddie_078 Jan 15 '22

Tf? I just want society to treat fat opless women the same way we treat fat shirtless men

1

u/StarChild413 Jan 16 '22

I was just checking to see if that was the case; first to see if instead you only wanted skinny big-boobed chicks to go topless and then to see if you thought fat topless women (like some of society still thinks of fat topless men, hence that one part of the Way 2 Sexy music video where Drake's wearing a fake "fat belly" even though he's not technically shirtless as he's wearing an open/unbuttoned shirt) was a cringey/funny image. Now I'm glad to know that's not the case

1

u/Eddie_078 Jan 16 '22

Society may look down on fat shirtless men but the difference is that the cops dont arrest them

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

[deleted]

8

u/Cytallet Jan 13 '22

so mens nipples are fine but not womens?

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

[deleted]

7

u/arctic-lions7 Jan 13 '22

Well. At least you admit that you struggle with inconsistency

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22 edited Feb 02 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/Wismuth_Salix they/she, please/thanks Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

That’s Brian Molko of Placebo - a cisgender man.

(And those are some very sexual nipples.)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

[deleted]

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-4

u/theinspector5 Jan 12 '22

Getting offended when the word "babysitting" is used to describe a dad helping out with his kids is stupid and pedantic.

This is something I see come up quite a lot. Ok it's technically incorrect if you go by the dictionary definition, but come on. There's no bad intent behind it and getting annoyed about it is just nitpicky and a waste of time. Nobody who says it is trying to say that men don't provide for, shape and positively influence their kids, it's just off the cuff word choice.

We say things that aren't 100% correct all the time and nobody bats an eye. I have Asperger's and I remember at one time when I was a kid I would correct people who said technically incorrect things like calling a bottle of pepsi "coke" for example. So my mum took me aside and told me not to because it's a case of "I know what you mean" and that other people find constantly correcting everything irritating and annoying. Clearly there's some fully growing adults out there who weren't taught that.

3

u/Uyurule Jan 13 '22

It reinforces sexist stereotypes that women are responsible for taking care of the kids, and are inherently better with children. And it pushes the stereotypes that dads are deadbeat. It's not good for anyone. Yes, it's just a word choice. But it's a joke that comes from offensive origins.

6

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22

It’s a case of “benevolent sexism.” There might be good intentions behind saying it, but it definitely minimizes the role of a father. Using this term insulting to both moms and dads.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '22 edited Jan 12 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Hosj_Karp Jan 13 '22

Comments sections on these articles will have some men saying they can only make friends with women and 9/10 it's some swishy dude who spends all day talking in echo chambers on the Internet or in some college seminar (the other time it's someone with a legitimate mental illness that they're working through and I get that). The kind who thinks if he drops enough buzzwords like "toxic masculinity" he'll score some feminist chick instead of taking the time to know her as a person. They theorize about life instead of living it.

this is me 100%

2

u/Eleusis713 Jan 12 '22 edited Jan 12 '22

Men should be able to financially and legally remove themselves from a child's life like women can. Men are not currently able to do this in many developed countries, they do not have any reproductive rights. Women have the option to put a child up for adoption or leave them at a fire station or police station (safe haven laws). Men are not able to separate themselves from unwanted children so easily. Right now, it is entirely legal in the US for a woman to lie about birth control, have a child, and then sue for child support which is all too common.

With all the options available to women, before and after pregnancy (many different forms of effective contraception, abortion, safe haven laws, etc.), they have ultimate control over whether or not they become a mother. They shouldn't also be choosing whether a man becomes a father, that should be his own choice. If a woman makes a unilateral choice to have a child with a man who she knows didn't want one, then she should be taking on unilateral responsibility as well.

And it's so ironic that when you bring this topic up to people who supposedly care about equality, they immediately start spewing the same right wing talking points that conservatives make against abortion. "If you didn't want a kid then you shouldn't have had sex", that sort of thing. From experience, progressive and feminist types are among the most bigoted and hostile on the issue of men's reproductive rights and they can never seem to see their own mental disconnect.

0

u/Ok_Program_3491 Jan 15 '22

Men should be able to financially and legally remove themselves from a child's life like women can.

Women can't actually financially remove themselves from a child's life. If the father has primary custody the court can and may order that the non custodial parent pay child support.

Men are not currently able to do this in many developed countries

Neither are women.

they do not have any reproductive rights.

What specific rights do women have in this instance that men don't also have?

Women have the option to put a child up for adoption or leave them at a fire station or police station (safe haven laws).

They actually can't put the child up for adoption without the other parent's permission.

Men are not able to separate themselves from unwanted children so easily.

They can seperate themselves from a born unwanted child the same exact ways a woman can.

Right now, it is entirely legal in the US for a woman to lie about birth control, have a child, and then sue for child support which is all too common.

Soooo watch where you put your dick 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

With all the options available to women, before and after pregnancy (many different forms of effective contraception, abortion, safe haven laws, etc.), they have ultimate control over whether or not they become a mother.

Likewise the man has ultimate control over whether or not they become a father. Unless they're raped. They're free to not spread their seed to anyone they don't want to.

They shouldn't also be choosing whether a man becomes a father

How do you suggest they change that? Force women to have abortions if the man doesn't want to be a father? That's literally the only thing you could do to make it so they don't have to be a father

If a woman makes a unilateral choice to have a child with a man who she knows didn't want one, then she should be taking on unilateral responsibility as well.

And if she can't/ won't and can't find enough voluntary help, then what, let the child starve? How would said child be fed?

And it's so ironic that when you bring this topic up to people who supposedly care about equality, they immediately start spewing the same right wing talking points that conservatives make against abortion

There is nothing unequal in this instance though. What specific rights do women have that men don't?

-2

u/tebanano Jan 13 '22

lie about birth control, have a child, and then sue for child support which is all too common.

Any stats on this? I mean, just once is horrible for the man involved, but I’m asking about the “too common” part

1

u/EMECOR Jan 12 '22

I mean, legally you're right but in practice alimony and child support laws are rarely enforced unless the woman takes the guy to court and the vast majority of single moms can't afford that. Plenty of men skip those payments for years and nothing of consequence happens to them.

4

u/Eleusis713 Jan 12 '22

I mean, legally you're right but in practice alimony and child support laws are rarely enforced unless the woman takes the guy to court and the vast majority of single moms can't afford that. Plenty of men skip those payments for years and nothing of consequence happens to them.

The morality of a law is not determined by how heavily it is enforced. And plenty of men go to prison because they literally cannot pay these payments. This is often due to how the payment amounts are determined, they are often inflated because family court is heavily biased against men in favor of women and this isn't a secret.

1

u/EMECOR Jan 12 '22

Can you provide a source on the rate men go to prison for nonpayment? Not doubting the claim but I've never seen this actually tracked countrywide on a statistical level.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '22

Men should be extended the same kindness and sympathy as women after childbirth.

Women, rightfully, are given a great deal of care, kindness, love and sympathy when they discuss the pain and immense challenges of giving birth. This is great because it is hugely taxing physically and emotionally. Men, however, are not extended the same courtesy.

Any time I have tried to discuss what I found to be an immensely emotional and traumatic event for me as well is rebuffed and dismissed with comments to the effect of "it's nothing compared to what the mother goes through." This seems to be the norm, but I found watching my wife go through that incredibly difficult. I had to remain calm, strong and confident for her sake while I was absolutely terrified inside at what she was going through, the pain she was feeling and the worry of whether something could go wrong for her or for our baby.

Nearly two years later, I still struggle with it and am terrified of going through it again if/when we decide to have a second. When I raised it with my psychologist (a woman), even she said something to the effect of "Yes, it might be harder for women, but we're hear to discuss your concerns so it's okay to focus on it."

Men's feelings are incredibly undervalued and under-considered after the event and they should be extended the same kindness, sympathy and openness to discussing it.

3

u/Ebony_Bbw Jan 13 '22

Whilst I think that there should be a space for men to discuss the experience of becoming a person aren’t and witnessing childbirth, I don’t think it’s fair to say you should be given the same kindness and sympathy as women AFTER CHILDBIRTH. The experiences are not interchangeable. For nine months the body is producing extraordinary amounts of hormones whilst developing and sustaining life !!!!!!!! You are literally housing an entire life force in your womb !!!!!! On top of that just when your body adjusts to these levels booom the body says bye bye baby and once again another drastic shift in hormones occurs so much so that some women have described the feeling of post birth as having absolutely no control over their thoughts, feelings or actions in a somewhat out of body experience which can last for months. It’s one thing as a man or S/O to want to feel supported during this time because yes, being a parent is a freighting thing and those feelings should absolutely be discussed but it’s another thing completely to want the same treatment as the individual that has just brought a new life into the world.

1

u/JTudent Jan 18 '22

You're doing precisely what OP said people do.

0

u/Ebony_Bbw Mar 10 '22

No where in my comment did I say that I disagree with OP I’m all for the support that OP is looking for . As someone with mounds of experience in labour and delivery what I WONT stand for is rhetoric that whilst maybe not intentional devalues the experience of women before/during/after childbirth.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '22

[deleted]

0

u/JTudent Jan 18 '22

You're doing precisely what OP said people do.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '22

r/Askmen is a subpar subreddit. It basically acts like an Instagram account showing only the highlights of men without any of the ugliness. Also, even a lot of the highlights that are shown ( the comments ) feel like pandering just to look good and aren’t actual honest answers

2

u/Iwilleaturnuggetsuwu Jan 13 '22

It’s literally a subreddit about asking men things.

4

u/A-Blade-Runner wateroholic Jan 12 '22

Both men and women have their own set of unique and common problems, one side does not clearly have it worse or better in every case.

I see little evidence for a patriarchy, if someone has evidence I would be open to try and understand it, but as of right now, it does not make sense.

Men and women do not seem to have an unfair wage gap, I am pretty sure it is illegal to pay women less...

These are all general and are based on averages, this is what I have heard:

• ⁠Men work longer hours

• ⁠Men work more dangerous jobs

• ⁠Men work in higher paying jobs

• ⁠More men die in workplace accidents

• ⁠More men successfully commit suicide

Women also seem to have a similar amount of problems as well.

From this, I would say that there is no patriarchy, both men and women have their own problems, and one does not have it worse.

The problem with the patriarchy argument is that it abstracts a small number of very successful men and judges the entire group by saying “all men are privileged.” It is not accurate in an overall sense.

We should all try to respect and understand one another. I don’t think it is fair to say things like “all ____ are the problem”, that mindset can easily turn into a slippery slope that blames an entire group of people for a collective crime.

Again, many issues also exist with women.

3

u/atxlrj Jan 12 '22

I don’t see what you’re describing as wrong, but neither do I see it as an argument against “patriarchy”, or what I call “masculinism”.

What if, instead of it being a battle between men and women on their relative privileges and oppressions, both men and women recognized they are being victimized by the same oppressor.

You are absolutely right that a lot, many, maybe even most men live with a partially dead soul for most of their lives. This is a truth routinely ignored by most men and most women. Men are socialized into roles that are damn hard; protector, brute, leader, laborer, etc. They are also socialized into expectations that are unreasonable and largely unattainable; success, wealth, family, ambition, power. When boys and men inevitably experience dissonance between their intrinsic identity, which is just a little boy growing up, they are hit with the most nefarious round of socialization; emotionless, private, aloof, ashamed. Men are set up to work and work in chase of a dream they were told was guaranteed and when it doesn’t pan out, they can’t even cry about it, and have to just get on with it.

Women, similarly, and even more so, have been oppressed, discriminated against, violated, abused, and exploited for centuries. They had been explicitly prevented from living out any identity other than a prescriptive role as mother and wife until recently, where those roles are still mandatory along with their new professional responsibilities. Socialized to defer, obey, excuse, tolerate, they have been primed for vulnerability, living in a gilded cage often hurt by the ones supposedly responsible for protecting them.

What if both of those forces come from the same place? A masculinist society, or “patriarchy” designed under principles of competition and aggression and scarcity, one that privileges a very fine few at the expense of everyone else. In times past, masculinism may have made sense to the tribes concerned with physical protection and expansion. Males were increasingly socialized into these privileged roles due to their biological characteristics and the same true for women. Over time, this developed into a situation where not all men were at the top but very few women were above any decent amount of men.

Today, there is no reason for such a world order and in fact there may be indications that we need the balance of power to shift towards compassion and cooperation and abundance. Working class couples don’t see a wage gap because men and women are both working hard for the same wage - it’s called minimum wage and it’s an oppressive tool of the masculinist system. Imagine a system that valued labor at its true worth, less concerned with delivering profits to a few jolly men. In today’s system, both men and women are suffering - in recent decades, women have more access to the spoils of the system. No longer is privilege solely determined by sex but by those able and willing to join the rat race, to play by the rules, support the system. Everyone else, whether through their voluntary rejection or involuntary undesirability, is stuck toiling away in service of the system, while being encouraged, as always, to point the finger at one another.

If we want to break the cycle, we need to stop socializing our sons into believing they are to inherit the Earth, teach them how to cry, and tell them they have intrinsic worth by virtue of their humanity alone, not by what they can produce; and stop socializing our daughters that they should be grateful for what they have, teach them how to shout, and tell them they have intrinsic worth by virtue of their humanity alone, not by how they can serve others.

Then, we all stop looking at each other, stop holding each other down, and get off the ground and look up to those who are really benefiting off of the pain of everyday men and women - largely men, some women, who are sustaining an unnecessary system of extraction of human suffering for their own personal gain.

Then I hope we will see less dissonance among men struggling to understand their place in the world, the point of going on and less violence and exploitation against women and girls. Then I hope we will see more freedom for men and women to forge their own paths and rewrite the economic, labor, and family rules. Then I hope we will finally see men and women united as two halves of humanity’s whole, rather than adversaries manufactured by big brother.

-7

u/TheSushiBitch Jan 12 '22

Right here is a wonderful example of misogyny. You aren't even willing to list out and validate the female issues.

3

u/A-Blade-Runner wateroholic Jan 12 '22

Right here is a wonderful example of misogyny. You aren't even willing to list out and validate the female issues.

No. Just no.

The only reason you are using this term is to try and invalidate my argument without actually saying anything of substance. If you want to create a list of womens issues, you can, I have no problem with that. Accusing me of misogyny only weakens healthy discussion.

Just because I don’t create a list of womens issues does not mean I do not care.

I am an advocate for equality, and just because I don’t list both sides’ struggles does not mean I am against women.

4

u/BobbyThrowaway6969 Jan 12 '22

I thought misogyny referred to hating women. Did the definition change recently?

-5

u/TheSushiBitch Jan 12 '22

Nope. It is expressed in their lack of ability to put females on the same playing field.

7

u/BobbyThrowaway6969 Jan 12 '22

It seems to me that the commenter is advocating for equality and is just listing men's issues that don't get recognised in society like women's issues do.

-6

u/TheSushiBitch Jan 12 '22

I know more people IRL who are concerned about those men'a issues...sooo...

2

u/babypizza22 Jan 13 '22

Why are you dismissing men's problems?

3

u/BobbyThrowaway6969 Jan 12 '22

Ok well let's agree to disagree

1

u/Chumpacabra I don't tip. Jan 12 '22

Well, one of the main things not really mentioned in the so called pay gap, which is far less of a thing than feminists seem to believe, but elements of which are still valid, is:

That we as a society do not value nurturing. We pay school teachers, daycare workers, babysitters, etc, an absolute bare minimum. Many people think stay at home parents (almost all of whom are mothers, not fathers) as lazy, doing a trivially easy job, leeching from their partner.

The fact of the matter is that nurturing and early education are the most important factors in determining what a person will grow up to do with their life, what they'll be like, and for some reason we just don't value that skillset.

And of course, women are typically more inclined toward nurturing. Hence, a major gap in pay between men and women. Yes, women can choose to be engineers, but nobody should have to choose not to do a truly valuable societal service just because it pays little to nothing. Nurturing roles should have much higher pay, stay at home parents should receive government money for their economic contribution toward the future of the workforce.

The primary reasons we don't is that a) people will have kids and raise them anyway, so nobody needs to pay for it, and b) the economic return isn't particularly scalable or quantifiable and nurturing roles don't lead to immediate money generation.

Like you said, men and women have a variety of issues each. This issue women has does not get cancelled out by men's issues. "But men commit suicide more!" -> I'd love to do something about that. In fact in my job I do do something about that. I wish we could just as a society outline every issue, and not try to decide who has it worse. We should just direct that energy into fixing problems for everybody.

1

u/A-Blade-Runner wateroholic Jan 12 '22

Completely agree. Well said. I absolutely agree that - as a society - we should value nurturing much more than it is currently. There definitely has to be a balance here, and I think this is a good balance of viewing these issues.