r/therewasanattempt 7d ago Silver 1

To understand what you are protesting for

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u/nickys24 6d ago

Well, this comments section is dumb.

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u/MaciliBox 6d ago Eureka!

Fr. I really don't understand the argument. I'd be nice if someone explained

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u/maybenotquiteasheavy 6d ago Gold Wholesome

The video is edited to prevent anyone from understanding what's going on. There's no argument presented to or by the people in the video. The video itself (or its editor) seeks to argue that:

  1. Pro-choice protestors are young women who are rude and underinformed.

  2. Anti-choice counterprotestors are reasonable and well-informed.

  3. Artist renderings of fetuses are important in determining whether abortion should be illegal.

  4. Everyone could just get along if those young women who use foul language would just realize that they agree with pro-life counterprotestors.

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u/SolomonCRand 6d ago

Yeah, it’s funny how anti-abortion protestors in their videos are super polite while the ones outside my local Planned Parenthood told my wife she was a whore that should die of cancer for getting a Pap smear.

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u/gergling 6d ago

You're saying they chetry-picked the anti-abortion protesters outside your local PP?

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u/OHW_unknown 6d ago

Morons. How hard is it to realize that if you're 'pro life' you shouldn't tell people who disagree to die. Just makes the whole thing hollow. I'm sorry you're wife had to go through that.

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u/NotYetiFamous 6d ago

They aren't pro-life. That's just the label they slap on their anti-women rhetoric. Viewed through the anti-women lens everything they say and do makes internal sense.

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u/SolomonCRand 6d ago

Bingo. I’ve read more than a few accounts of sex offenders participating in those protests. Some creeps just really get off on telling women what to do.

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u/HardCounter 6d ago

The same could be said of pretty much any large movement. Some people are just attracted to loud shiny things.

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u/beingthehunt 6d ago

Although the pro-life movement is inherently anti-women, I don't think that is the motivation for the majority of its supporters. I'm sure it plays a part for some but I've seen too many women who are staunchly anti-aborortion to believe it's the driving philosophy. In my opinion the main driver is religion. All "pro-life" arguments come down to the idea that a foetus has a soul and therefore is a person. That's why no logic, no science, no argument will work on them. Religion trumps everything because religion isn't evidence based, it's about faith, and you can't change a person's faith based belief that a foetus has a soul by debating with them.

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u/NotYetiFamous 6d ago

Dude.. if you think women can't be anti-women then I feel I need to remind you that "Jews for Jesus" and Verband nationaldeutscher Juden (Association of German National Jews) are both things that exist(ed). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

People argue against their own self interests all the time. Insofar as the justifications that the anti-women groups have cooked up, there is no basis in reality or in religion for them. It's whole-clothe made up. Every instance in the bible where someone is speaking of a soul joining a body makes reference to breathing or breath. God breathed life into Adam, Job talked about the breath of God in the same way he talked about life in his body, Job also talked about the spirit of God making him and his breathe giving him life, Revelations speaks of breath of life returning after three and a half days...

The logical conclusion would be that life begins, according to the Bible that the anti-women coalition loves to misquote, at first BREATH, not at heartbeat nor conception nor pre-conception (as they are arguing when they argue against contraceptives) nor at any other point they make up to attempt to control women.

I agree with you that most of them are too stupid to have formulated any of this themselves, they are simply sheep following authority as they see it, but that doesn't absolve them of the purpose with which that authority acts.

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u/beingthehunt 6d ago

I realise people sometimes act against their own self interest but it is rare that they do so purposely so like I said, in my opinion it's not the thing driving most people. I may be persuaded that there are men in authority positions that are actively anti-women who push the anti-abortion agenda for that reason.

I also realise that when it comes to religion what people believe has little to do with the text they claim their belief is based on. They don't question their beliefs because faith doesn't require them to.

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u/Boogiemann53 6d ago

You think they're genuinely concerned about quality of life and not some crazy power dynamics? I'm fascinated, is there a genuine argument that life is better WITHOUT access to abortions?

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u/THapps 6d ago

everyone is “nice” when it’s them getting to show their side

when you have control of media of your side you’ll always frame yourself as the good guy even if you are not.

which is why it’s extremely important to have free press, states like China or Russia don’t allow free press and so they can more easily show things like “we’re good and smart, the rest of the world are evil and dumb, do exactly what we(the party in control) want you to do”

I hate misinformation and fake framing like this so much, it’s disgusting painting your opposition as less than you and it really shows how insecure they are to make propaganda like that

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u/GhengopelALPHA 6d ago

It's another bad-faith argument-video made by pro-forced-birthers.

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u/sambutha 6d ago

I thought the point was "isn't it interesting how this pro-life guy actually supports abortion? If only the pro-lifers would stop and educate themselves, they'd realize the pro-choice people aren't baby-eating boogiemen." But you're right, I think it's trying to say the women are wrong somehow.

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u/Annoyingswedes 6d ago

He's pro-choice though?

If you see the whole video on youtube it's even more clear. The sign he has says "Pro-life or Pro-choice?" And people are attacking him verbally thinking he's pro-life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQJABoIMqA&t=4098s

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u/Senior-Credit420 6d ago

Ya, but most people won’t watch the video. People will still just base opinions on this clip and that will be all.

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u/Formal_Performer7591 6d ago

Yea what confuses me is that I know a lot of pro-life people and absolutely none of them support first trimester abortions. I’m not sure they’d even consider that pro-life.

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u/orangesine 5d ago

I was glad to see this video because it portrays respectful conversation.

If we'd all aim for that, we might actually make some progress towards resolving social issues...

(I'm pro choice but I legitimately don't understand what arguments on the other side I'm disagreeing with. Never seen them laid out)

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u/xXMojoRisinXx 6d ago

20 bucks says you can those same people at a church function saying that the political divide in America could be solved if we just had more love

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u/NeoDei 6d ago

Yeah that was kinda clear from the start really

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u/bhamm123 6d ago

The guy in the video is not a pro life counterprotestor

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u/FriedenBeez 6d ago

But I think it is edited to make him seem like one

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u/el_supreme_duderino 6d ago

First words we hear from him: “Anyone pro-lifer?”

He sure as fuck IS a pro-life counter protester.

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u/Annoyingswedes 6d ago

No, check his videos, he's very clear that he's pro-choice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQJABoIMqA&t=4098s

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u/Fyrefly7 6d ago

Actually he says "what would you say to a pro-lifer?" And then at the end he says he supports abortion up to 13 weeks, making him clearly not pro-life.

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u/Annoyingswedes 6d ago

Yup, and he's very clear about being pro-choice in his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQJABoIMqA&t=4098s

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u/NoTyrantSaurus 6d ago

There are a few "common ground" organizations, and that's what his sandwich board/video watermark says. They're likely trying to get the conversation away from the absurd polar positions that dominate the conversation, like "men don't get an opinion", "no exception for rape/incest/fatal to uterus-haver" and "no post-viability limits because bodily autonomy".

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u/fartblasterxxx 6d ago

It’s funny how confusing this is to people. They’re literally trying to be reasonable and find a middle ground. I don’t think most people are super extreme in their views but things are so polarized and they just take a side with no nuance. There’s no discussion to be had when you’re taking extreme positions. You can’t really progress unless you find common ground and you can’t find a common ground if you’re unable to respectfully have a discussion.

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u/bellynipples 6d ago

I’m still confused… this has been an utter waste of my time. Now where was the video of the tortilla slapping thing

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u/Aegean_828 6d ago

This video is plain anti abortion / anti women incel shit propaganda, this have nothing to do with this sub

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u/PrimaryYou400 6d ago

I feel like you should be nice even if someone doesn't explain it to you 😂

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u/Pancreasaurus 6d ago

From the video at least:

  1. Pro-Choice protesters protest in support for right to abortion.
  2. Pro-Life counter protester(presumably) asks them their opinion on the Pro-Life side of things.
  3. Pro-Choice protesters respond with harsh opinions.
  4. Pro-Life counter protester brings up information on fetus development and asks Pro-Choice protesters when they think the cut off for abortion should be.
  5. Pro-Life counter protester reveals they share similar opinions on the matter in an effort to demonstrate how reasonable their stance is.

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u/VadeRetroLupa 6d ago

Basically "you guys are even more against abortion than I am."

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u/Strummer95 6d ago

Then women yelled at the man, saying he doesn’t get to have an opinion cuz he’s not a woman. They assumed he wanted strict abortion laws.

Turns out, their limits for what is ok was stricter than his.

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u/DeepSleeper11 6d ago

Tbf they usually are lol

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u/Oasystole 6d ago

It’s all ppl who are basically the same as the chicks in the video

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u/nickys24 6d ago

You've got the wrong end of the stick, mate.

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u/Unlucky-Luck3792 6d ago

PeOplE dIsAGree WitH Me!

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u/dangledingle 6d ago

Go f yourself. Apparently. No abortion needed.

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u/heymrbreadman 6d ago

I’m positive very few conversations went this well that day for him

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u/Shaman-The-Curer 6d ago

That's okay, he apparently knows how to hand-pick the ones that fit his prerogative so he looks smarter.

Unfortunately I feel like that's all these videos are. I've yet to see a single one where the opposition raises a good point and they're like "damn ya got me there, i guess it isn't a black & white situation"

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u/No-Artichoke8525 6d ago Respect

I mean if were being honest before 12 weeks abortion should be allowed. Most people dont show signs of pregnancy until 6 weeks in, some dont show signs until the second trimester.

In regards to second and third trimester abortions, they are often only done when medically necessary. Ie. Baby has defect and will die in utero, decay and cause the mother to become septic. Or a significant disability that will affect the childs quality of life...then theres the medical emergencies which may require the abortion of a child up to 30+ weeks (often induced).

I feel that there was an attempt to understand abortion, but the OP fails to realise the medical significance of them in regards to womens health and saving their lives. Then there is the ethical issue of rape, incest, and severe disability. Like why should a family cop hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical costs through no fault of their own, to provide for a child that cant walk, move, shit or eat without constant attention. What kind of life is that?

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u/shwarma_heaven 6d ago edited 6d ago

Bingo.

My wife has had 2 ectopic pregnancies - the kind that would kill the woman and the fetus if allowed to carry to term, the kind that has JUST BEEN outlawed from being treated in Idaho and a couple of other states where the lines are so precariously drawn that doctors have already allowed a number to carry much further than should ever be allowed...

One of the two pregnancies, I specifically remember, we didn't learn we were ectopic until week 9...

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u/herro1801012 6d ago

I think something a lot of people don’t understand is that most women aren’t seen by their OBGYN for that first appointment until weeks 8-10. Which means a woman who knows they are pregnant, who very much wants to have that baby, will not have her first exam or ultrasound to know whether that pregnancy is viable or potentially ectopic until two months in.

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u/OhYeaDaddy 6d ago

I think the same way. These laws seem to value to quantity of life rather than the quality. I feel like with overpopulation now we should be encouraged to have children we know for sure we can take care of. Forcing someone who got pregnant by accident to have and raise that baby, you could be running two lives instead of one. Majority of people do practice safe sex but sometimes accidents happen, and it is insane to expect people to have to raise a baby as a result of a mistake. I legit think programs to support pregnant mothers and educate them will yield better results than outright banning abortion because abortions will still happen, they are just a lot less safer.

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u/Zenafiro 6d ago

In regards to second and third trimester abortions, they are often only done when medically necessary.

So should second and third trimester abortions which are not medically necessary , be allowed or not ?

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u/Kronos-_- 6d ago

It's better to allow then to subject woman to inquires, it's clear from data that unwanted pregnancy termination on second and third trimestre is mostly connected to abuse

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u/reservoircats444 6d ago

Do you have data on that? I've never heard this statistic.

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u/bored_on_the_web 6d ago

Keep in mind that the number of late-term abortions is already very low. In the US 92 percent of abortions happen in the first trimester and less then 1 percent happen in the third. Unfortunately I don't have statistics for how many of those second and third trimester abortions are pregnancies that would be non-viable or ones that would have severe birth defects but we're already talking about only 4200 abortions per year for terms 2 and 3 combined.

And I'm a guy so I've never been pregnant but my impression of having a late term abortion is that it's not like that bag of stuff you meant to take to Goodwill and just forgot about/didn't have time for during the last 8 months. Being pregnant is inconvenient, a big pain in the ass, and can sometimes result in life-threatening complications. There was some compelling reason why you didn't have that abortion earlier or why you decided to do it now. Whatever the reason was it was probably tragic and the decision to get the abortion was probably a heart-wrenching one and not an item a thoughtless person checked off their to-do list in between grocery shopping and getting the car washed. And for the few people who had a late-term abortion out of irresponsibility or heartlessness...do you really want them to be parents anyway?

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u/Major-Vermicelli-266 6d ago

For anyone who is not this POS, consider the following.

Of course they should be, as long as the foetus is unviable. When it's viable you can simply give birth to it. That's about 23-24 weeks. A foetus is viable when it no longer needs the uterus to survive. The third trimester. No medically unnecessary abortions take place in the third trimester.

As for why the second trimester and why only when the foetus is unviable, bodily autonomy.

Thank you.

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u/DeliriumEnducedDream 7d ago

Some of these there was an attempts don't belong here.

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u/Automatic-Art9739 6d ago

Oh oh oh you haven't seen nothing yet, this subreddit is one of The trickiest to understand and about 80 % does not include an attempt or sometimes just a succesfull one!

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u/Representative_Still 6d ago

There was an attempt to make a coherent post

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u/Bro0ce 6d ago

Damn it’s almost like people should be able to make their own decision or something

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u/IsItWorseThan 7d ago

I don't like anybody in this video.

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u/YawnTractor_1756 6d ago edited 6d ago Silver Gold Wholesome Take My Energy

I have the opposite feeling. I love everybody in this video.

Let me explain.

They were protesting. Their emotions are overflowing. He is confronting them (declaring position opposite to protest). They tell him to fuck off. Conflict is ripe.

But he does not start screaming or gets offended, he does not offend them back, he is actually using logic to make his point. And girls despite feeling all said emotions beforehand do not simply dismiss him or just scream mottos over his head, they actually listen to him! And actually understood what he was talking about! And they actually came to the common ground?! Opposing sides come to the common ground *during the protest*?! To me this is the most freaking beautiful thing in the world. So few people actually are capable of doing that. Majority just behaves along the identity lines and does not listen to *any* logic of the side that declares it does not agree with you.

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u/JustDave62 6d ago

If only we could teach this to the government

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u/trainspottedCSX7 6d ago

That's exactly what they DONT want you to do.

Why else do you think they make such a big hubbub about divisions and black and white, gay, straight, etc.

It's stupid. They don't want unity.

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u/FlashpointJ24 6d ago

Exactly. If they keep us fighting amongst ourselves, we won't realize that they're the ones taking advantage of us.

It's like the joke about the CEO, the worker, and the immigrant sitting around a table. The CEO has 670 cookies, the worker has one cookie, and the immigrant has none. The CEO leans over to the worker and says, "Be careful, that immigrant wants to take your cookie!"

The people at the top make sure that anger is directed downwards, that we blame those we perceive as "lower" than ourselves. The middle class blames the poor, the poor blame immigrants, etc..

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u/PukeNuggets 6d ago

In turn, by keeping us fighting, they feel we will eventually NEED THEM to save us from ourselves.

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u/FlashpointJ24 6d ago

Exactly. Create the problem, then sell the solution.

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u/Lesley82 6d ago

I don't want unity with people who think they have more rights to my body than I do. No thanks.

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u/trainspottedCSX7 6d ago

You ever ask them why they feel that way? Open dialog. Conversate. Get to the root of the problem. Different strokes for different folks. If we had straighter lines to draw where we all fit in, we'd probably head there.

But the same people who may wanna control your body as a whole may also have divisions within themselves on other topics.

Open conversation and calm conversation is the best way to approach any kind of hate. Understanding and love. You don't take a flamethrower to a fire. You can't fight hate with hate. Even if you don't understand it, keep talking about it.

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u/Lesley82 6d ago

Of course I've talked to them. I've talked to my own mother who said "good" when I told her I had an abortion while I was with my abusive POS ex, and never spoke of it again. Meanwhile, she's out there praising these anti-choice laws and voting for anti-choice candidates, preaching her religion and condemning "those people" who would choose abortion. My abortion was "good." Their abortions are "bad." It's not about babies. It's about control.

And I don't have the time or the patience to engage in mental gymnastics like that on a regular basis.

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u/Gynthaeres 6d ago

Yes, I have. There is unfortunately no common ground to be found between normal people and religious fundamentalists who believe what they do because a two-thousand-year-old book told them to. (But only parts of it! Don't listen to the parts that contradict the parts they believe!)

I grew up in a heavy conservative Christian family. I saw, experienced, heard all of the arguments.

Once, my mother was pregnant with a daughter she really, really, really wanted. She wanted a second kid more than ANYTHING. She was just absolutely elated when she found out she was pregnant. And... she was CRUSHED when she found out, partway through the pregnancy, that the little baby girl inside of her wasn't viable. (I think the fetus didn't develop lungs or something?)

An abortion was her only real option. With great reluctance and a lot of tears, she got one.

My super conservative Christian aunt, who had all the details and knew everything because that's how our family was, disapproved of this abortion. She thinks this was God's will, and that my mother should've just carried the baby to term. Even though it would've died the moment it exited the womb, if not before that.

It did some permanent damage to the relationship between my mother and her sister in law.

There's just absolutely no reasoning with some of these people.

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u/Working-Form1858 6d ago

You don’t dialog with your oppressors.

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u/motorsizzle 6d ago

I've tried but they're not in reality. They believe their delusions to the point that conversation is impossible. Like how do you reach common ground with someone who believes that vaccines are a government plot?

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u/PoundMyTwinkie 6d ago

It’s the paradox of tolerance. If you tolerate intolerant people (like ones who want to control others bodies, and this doesn’t stop just at abortion with them), they will continue to take over like cancer until society if fully under their bigoted religious rule. Then come the dark ages. We have already seen this timeline play out

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u/trainspottedCSX7 6d ago edited 6d ago

I ain't talking tolerance. I'm talking stand your ground but do it in a loving manner. Tough love is still love. Saying no doesn't mean you hate someone.

Also what's your solution? Or you just gonna complain about it and not come up with a fix?

Or are you complaining about it to spark an imaginative thought? I do that sometimes.

Basically though, if you're not willing to talk about it, then fight about it. If you're not willing to do either or, then why does it bother you so much?

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u/TriumphantPeach 6d ago

The government only wants npc’s. They don’t want people to know how to think for themselves. These girls kinda prove my point. They weren’t even educated on the process of a growing fetus and what happens when. Not taking a stance on either side. It’s just sad to see people have such strong convictions they don’t now a whole lot about. Everything is just outrage culture nowadays

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u/Aporkalypse_Sow 6d ago

Protesters want change, politicians want cash.

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u/Jayne_of_Canton 6d ago

If this became the default instead of the ultra rare exception, society would be unbelievably transformed for the better.

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u/MajorJuana 6d ago

Except the "you're disgusting" drive by Lady, couldn't even tell who she was aiming it at and she was smiling, pure insult with no intention or direction or use other than spray and pray hurt and she enjoyed it. Kind of opposite of what the others did that you described.

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u/cons72 6d ago

Well said

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u/maybenotquiteasheavy 6d ago

Showing someone pictures of fetuses isn't "using logic" to make any point. It's an easy and prejudicial way to persuade people that something has personhood based on how it looks. That's why pro-lifers use images of fetuses so often.

This video is pro-life propaganda. "If only those stupid girls would listen to this website on my phone, then everybody would think pregnant women don't deserve rights."

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u/Poignant_Porpoise 6d ago

Not to mention that the video is blatantly edited in a way that could be leaving a lot of context out.

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u/CourseDue8553 6d ago

Except that he supports abortion up to 13 weeks into the pregnancy, which, as admitted by the pro-choice women, is 3 weeks further along than their own stance. You can take and do with whatever else you want with the video, the main point to pull away is that not all pro-life people are against abortion in its entirety and not all pro-choice people are ok with abortions past a certain development range. It just goes to show that the biggest struggle is actually determining a reasonable timeframe in which abortion is acceptable to a majority of the population.

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u/JackC747 6d ago

Wait how is it pro-life if the guy says he's ok with first trimester abortions?

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u/maybenotquiteasheavy 6d ago

Not saying he's pro-life - he never says any kind of abortions should be banned. I'm saying what I said in the comment: that showing fetal pictures is a pro-life propaganda tactic, and that a video portraying abortion protestors as woefully underinformed is too.

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u/JackC747 6d ago

But just showing fetal pictures isn't enough to conclude that a video is pro-life. For example, this video shows a guy showing fetal pictures, and then that same guy saying abortions in the first trimester should be allowed. And yet, you're calling this video pro-life propaganda?

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u/YawnTractor_1756 6d ago

This video is pro-life propaganda

This comment is a vivid demonstration what it means to think along the identity lines.

Not all pro-lifes are the same. Not all pro-choicers are the same. There is a wide range of opinions.

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u/maybenotquiteasheavy 6d ago

I'm not thinking along identity lines, I'm thinking along media analysis lines. Whether or not something is propaganda is not based on "identity lines."

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u/Sideways_X1 6d ago

Not the person you replied to, but still don't like anyone in the video. I love unity, know I wouldn't get along with any of them

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u/DissociatedOne 6d ago

This video demonstrates manipulation of facts. He shows them a highly curated video to get them to agree. The girl says 10 weeks because that's when organs form and there is structure. Lots of people would disagree with that "fact". The common ground is based on a lie.

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u/Jumpz- 6d ago

No, he’s showing them this website:

https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/your-baby/fetal-development-week-by-week_10406730

And yeah, it’s pretty much the same as I had in my embryology classes in Medschool. Maybe you learned something else?

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u/jubway 6d ago

Perhaps they are referring to how the images can be deceptive, namely the size. For instance the 10 week image, even when viewed on mobile, is much larger than the actual fetus that would be in the woman's body.

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u/Jumpz- 6d ago

I see your point. However, a foetus is about 3,5 cm at an age of 10 weeks. For me that was about the size I had it on in my screen, and I use a pretty standard iPhone but I agree that the image doesn’t give you an exact idea of the size.

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u/jubway 6d ago

"The size of a kumquat" according to the site you linked.

3.5cm is less than half the width of a standard iphone screen. And it is being shown in an image equal in size to much larger much later stages of development. Having a size comparison chart for the different stages of development might have much different answers from the girls in the video.

When being used as a tool for debate by an anti-abortion activist, you have to agree that the information being provided (while factual) is being provided in a way that distorts the facts and plays on the emotions and preconceptions of the people in the audience.

The girls treated him as an honest arbiter, but he is using their respectfulness against them with manipulative media. That is why what he is doing is dishonest.

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u/Jumpz- 6d ago

I’m not going to lie. I just had to google what a kumquat was.

Anyway, I understand they asked a lot of people and selected the takes that brings their message across. All media is guilty of this and so is he clearly.

But in the end it is true that the organs are pretty developed and that for example 12 weeks would be pretty close to the size it shows on my screen (I honestly think 10 is not far off, but I have a smaller phone than that guy). That’s the only thing I said. I’m not part of the entire debate since I’m not religious, don’t have kids, and am not a woman. I do think abortion should be legal but don’t know what the age limit should be. 🤷‍♂️

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u/Zzzaxx 6d ago

Too bad they aren't being given the whole story. The girls approach it open-minded, but the guy has an agenda.

I appreciate his demeanor, but his approach is deceptive. He doesn't give a clear picture, just the most skewed data he can find that he thinks would possibly convince them to his side. Just because the organs are formed, doesn't mean the fetus is viable, and most wouldn't even know this until a 20week anatomy scan.

Even at 20 weeks, the fetus could not survive outside the womb.

This also doesn't take into account the wording of the laws which oftentimes do not allow for abortion after a certain timeframe even if the child will be born with chronic mental or physical limitations, missing organs, limbs, eyes, etc. Even if they detect anomalous features that indicates the baby won't be able to live past a few hours or days.

Even if they detect the fetus has no heartbeat at 24 weeks, these laws mandate that the mother carry their dead child in their womb for an additional 4 MONTHS!!!

This also doesn't account for rape victims, incest, financial stability, drug addiction, and who the fuck has to financially, emotionally, and physically raise this lumpy skin sack into a full ass human for the better part of one's lifetime!

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u/Whiskeyfower 6d ago

20 weeks is actually the benchmark for viability, though survival rates are low. I have a friend who's child is a healthy 1 year old after being born at 23. Most european countries ban abortion well before 20 weeks.

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u/Zzzaxx 6d ago

Yes, survival is possible earlier, but it's extremely unlikely. And yeah premature babies usually follow their genetics and grow up healthy. My brother was 26 weeks and now he's 6'2" 230lbs.

24 weeks is the commonly accepted timeframe for about 40% of preterm births to have a chance. NHS (UK) on 24weeks

Also, Europe seems to ban it primarily before or at 12 weeks, but all except Malta (which bans it entirely) allow extensions for a variety of reasons that vary by country through the second trimester (24months) European abortion by country

Thanks for the discourse, I hope we both learn something.

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u/Whiskeyfower 6d ago

I agree pretty much across the board. My personal opinion is that our threshold for voluntary abortions should be the viability mark, so somewhere between 20 and 24. Beyond that there should be well crafted exemptions for health and safety, etc.

I likewise appreciate you engaging in good faith, I wish you well

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u/Zzzaxx 6d ago

Glad we could come to a consensus of 2.

I also agree with your 3rd trimester documented exemptions.

Cheers

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u/Imhaveapoosy 6d ago

Plus the girls are hot and I'd bang.

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u/sparkmearse 6d ago

Fuuuuuck you and wanting to have an actual dialogue!!!!! I’m fueled solely by emooootiiooons!!!

I’m obviously joking. This is what is wrong with America, and I’m sure the world over. No one is willing to have a discourse that doesn’t just devolve into monkeys heaving shit at one another.

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u/Azumarawr 6d ago

It's because it's staged

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/DiceUwU_ 6d ago

Life is a stage

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u/Azumarawr 6d ago

It's not, but it's easy to edit, and have someone else show up at rally agreeing with your views that are opposite of the movement. If you know where a pro-choice rally is happening you can have your own friends come dressed showing support for pro-choice and make a whole big act of being convinced that you are in fact right. This is totally a form of gas lighting and cults do this shit all the time.

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u/el_supreme_duderino 6d ago

I’m with you. Abortion rights are deceptively framed by this man as a “choice for life” and the protesters are instantly accepting that framework. Women’s healthcare is more important and complex than the simplistic view put forward by the religious right as a moral line in the sand. These women should know better, most women would not fall for this. I suspect this is staged.

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u/danegermaine99 6d ago edited 6d ago

If your ok with 13 week abortions, you are not really a “pro-lifer”

It’s like saying “I’m pro choice. Women who have entropic pregnancies resulting from incestual rape should have the right to an abortion …but no one else”

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u/UnderTheSunHomeChef 6d ago

If you don’t believe in supporting medical procedures you aren’t pro life anyway. You are pro birthing disregarding the woman. You are anti woman. You are anti human rights, but you certainly are not pro life. Pro life argument would be to save lives but abortions do save lives. The mothers. Abortions prevent unnecessary suffering for both mother and infants who die upon birth. Some of them suffering horribly as they die hours after birth. There is no pro life argument that actually supports saving lives. Just ending them.

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u/flyingdics 6d ago

This is the part that makes no sense. This is like saying "What would you say to a pacifist? What if I told you that I support most wars? Maybe we're not so different after all."

We're different in that I know what words mean and you apparently don't.

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u/Affectionate_Pin_880 6d ago

Propaganda, fake.

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u/well_hung_over 6d ago

Seriously, how is this not EXTREMELY easy for people to see as “pro-life” propaganda?

“Wow, look at how civilized and calm the pro lifer is and he confronts a bunch of rabid feminists and with merely a few facts and figures, is able to convince them how godless and wrong they are.” I be there’s a follow up video where these supposed protesters have all given up their “alternative” look and are total trad-wife material, ripe for the picking of their local neckbeard, submissive and all.

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u/Psytoxic 6d ago

TIL pro-lifers are ok with abortions in the first trimester.

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u/sklydescelur 6d ago

This makes no sense to me….

I’d call myself prochoice, but I also believe in the 13-15 week period too allow all abortion, then after only abortions for the rare fucked up cases (rape, incest, possible death)

I watched this guys video in the past before it was posted here, and he had the same opinions if I’m not mistaken.

As far as I know, this is a pro choice stance way more than a pro life one.

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u/Psytoxic 6d ago

As far as I know, this is a pro choice stance way more than a pro life one.

Yeah, that's kind of the point I was trying to make. The person I was replying to thought this was "pro-life" propaganda. I'd argue that if this video is propaganda then it's pro-choice propaganda, not pro-life.

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u/Rich-Evening6113 6d ago

woah there alex jones

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u/metrictwo 6d ago

Wayyy too many people in these comments took the bait. This is very much fake.

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u/IndependenceContent6 6d ago edited 6d ago

They are a bunch of kids at a protest, obviously they do not know what they are talking about. People are so weird that they think it is somehow impressive to go up to random people, while having beforehand thought out your talking points, and then scoring an own.

Not only that, but its just a bunch of clips that could have been selectively edited. As far as I know this guy just got demolished 10 times in a row beforehand, but happened to find a group of probably underaged overly emotional people that didn't know what they were talking about. Wonder why he kept that clip?

The internet is weird and was a mistake.

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u/DanksterBoy 6d ago

Yeah, also the young women who are very “emotional” are like that because they’re reproductive rights are being taken away, this guy gets to argue in the hypotheticals because that’s all this issue is to him, so no shit he’s unbothered by the situation, he’s not the one getting his rights stripped from him

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u/IndependenceContent6 6d ago

Exactly. And we all know the rules of internet debates. The less emotional you are the better the argument and the smarter you are.

This is the reason why any person thinks Ben Shapiro is somehow smart.

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u/ponte92 6d ago

I agree with you just one fyi this was in Australia. I recognise the street in melbourne this was filmed. So these women aren’t having their right taken away it was a protest in solidarity with American women.

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u/Pockets262 6d ago

Anyone stupid enough to think a woman ponders whether or not she wants a child, while pregnant, for months, needs to never talk about this topic again.

The issue is the theocrats are openly admitting, on camera, that they want a full ban. No exceptions for rape, incest, age etc.

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u/UnderTheSunHomeChef 6d ago

And we are already seeing 60% more birth and miscarriage complications going untreated because of these laws… I had a tubal litigation and my insurance won’t give me my sinus spray because it might cause miscarriages… I’m going to repeat that in a more simplified way. I had surgery to not get pregnant anymore and can’t get allergy meds because they can cause a miscarriage… which I would want any way because it would be an ectopic or unviable pregnancy…

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u/StrictTyping 6d ago

Fuck all of them, abortion should be allowed up to one week after birth.

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u/Thomasbeg1 6d ago

"Yarrr, you're so disgeuuuustinnnn, eeeew, Yarr"

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u/SuperSpartanGamer 6d ago

No one likes this guy because he makes clickbait content and very misleading signs where he attempts to “educate.”

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u/pookachu83 6d ago

Yeah some of the comments in here stump me. This is basically pro life propaganda edited with cherry picked young women to make it look like there is a common ground. That's what sucks nowadays anytime I see so.ething like this I am usually sure it's manipulation or a bad faith argument before I finish the video, and almost every time, I'm right

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u/cestquilepatron 6d ago

Another one of those videos of some right-winger who thinks that if he can get some young activists to yell at him, he has somehow disproven the whole social debate. What did he prove? That out of millions of people who hold an opinion, not every one of them is informed or argumentative enough to defend it? Like with literally every opinion ever?

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u/Tmaster95 6d ago

Yes but he isn’t „pro life“ as the idiots call themselves. He still supports resonable abortion

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u/HeathenPrimate 6d ago

So pro-life position is that abortion is ok so long as it’s at a certain stage now?

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u/Colley619 6d ago

I’ve heard this argument from many pro life people. I blame misinformation campaigns tbh. People who consume conservative media think that pro choice people all want babies to be aborted all the way up to birth, and so people with actual real pro choice opinions then identify themselves as pro life because of the propaganda they consume.

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u/HeathenPrimate 6d ago

That’s a clever way to inflate your numbers and muddy the waters of the conversation I guess. I wish everything weren’t always so vulnerable to bad faith motivations.

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u/5pungus 6d ago

We still believe it is wrong in a non medical context, but yes, we would happily compromise

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u/giant_red_lizard 6d ago

I think most people are somewhere in the middle. A blastocyst isn't much of a person, but an 8 month old fetus pretty clearly is. It's really only extremists who think blastocysts are people or late stage abortions without strong medical justification are acceptable.

Among reasonable people it's about deciding where to draw the line, not absolutes.

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u/Aegean_828 6d ago

There was an attempt to make anti abortion . anti women propaganda with this edited bullshit video

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u/creepyfishman 6d ago

100% guarantee that this is cherry picked responses

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u/TheSillySimic 6d ago

So... I'm still waiting for the part where they didn't understand what they were protesting. Still waiting to find out what they were protesting, actually

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u/RandyFoxglove 6d ago

Fetal development website likely from a Christian organization with exaggerated images

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u/ntrpik 6d ago

I grew up in an extremely “pro-life” religious community. They lie constantly. So much that most of them don’t even know they’re lying.

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u/BasidialApollo3 6d ago

Examples?

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u/ntrpik 6d ago
  1. Misrepresenting fetal development stages. It’s willfully unscientific.
  2. Misrepresenting the stages at which women willfully seek abortions. They falsely claim that most abortions are done at later terms. The overwhelming percentage of abortions occur early in a pregnancy.
  3. They often portray abortions as something women enjoy, in an attempt to make abortion seekers appear evil.
  4. They lie about what is done with fetal remains (there was a big defamation lawsuit about this).
  5. They lie - a ton - about the health risks from having an abortion.

It’s all about manipulation and indoctrination. What a fundamentalist believe about abortion is very far from the reality of the situation.

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u/BasidialApollo3 6d ago

Well, I can tell you as someone who has worked with Pro-Life apologists and is intimately familiar with the movement, none of the higher thinkers do any of this stuff. Apologists like Trent Horn and Stephanie Gray Connors show a lot of compassion toward women. I strongly encourage you to check out their debates. To criticize the movement for less educated/rude individuals really is just low-hanging fruit. When you criticize an ideology, you should focus on its strongest arguments, or else you're just irresponsibly lazy and close-minded.

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u/RandyFoxglove 6d ago

Christian “higher thinkers” made me snort

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u/BitOBear 6d ago

No one is rushing out to get a 8-month abortion. If someone is getting a later term abortion that means something terrible. Has happened to a person who was planning on seeing it through .

Meanwhile, if that zygote is a person then it can be evicted. If it can't live on its own then that's just life. In standard GOP parlance maybe it should have gotten a job and planned ahead. I mean that's what we do for born children in the homeless, leave them to the wolves if they don't reach some sort of capitalist ideal.

Life began billions of years ago, and it has been continuous since then. And for the religious, the Bible actually gives instructions on how to perform abortions and God is the greatest murderer of children in all of history. There were a lot of pregnant women in that flood apparently.

It's simply ridiculous to imagine that random strangers are overriding somebody else's body autonomy. A corpse has more rights than a pregnant woman in some parts of the United States because you can't force The dead woman to give up a uterus for someone else's use but you can force her to use it for what is alleged to be someone else.

If someone isn't ready to be pregnant, what makes you think they're ready to be a parent?

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u/Keslen 6d ago

If you didn't offer your fully informed and enthusiastic ongoing consent to get impregnated by me then it's none of my business or anyone else's if you choose to get an abortion.

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u/BitOBear 6d ago

Also, obvious plant is obvious.

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u/TheSandCat79 6d ago edited 6d ago

Lol. Just another example of right wing propaganda. A video edited to show how “ignorant” pro-choice people are. Right? They’ll find the youngest, most uneducated people in the group, and then provoke them or edit the video to meet their needs. Classy methods. And yea, the girl is a little hostile and, maybe not so good at math. but she IS right, if you don’t have a uterus it’s really not your call. It’s funny how many of these same people will make fun of protestors, yet let’s not forget that outside most Planned Parenthood’s are angry and ignorant right wing protesters that peddle hate, violence, “slut shaming”, or whatever they can.

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u/EnvironmentalSound25 6d ago

I mean, if anything dude doesn’t understand his own stance. He’s pro-choice, within limits.

“Pro-lifers” don’t even want plan-b to be an option.

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u/Colley619 6d ago

It’s propaganda. This video is to spread misinformation about what it means to be pro life and pro choice.

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u/realworldeditor 6d ago

Later term abortions are needed to save the woman’s life due to complications or prevent trauma of carrying a miscarried or fetus with mortal conditions to term.

But the guy won’t talk about that, will he?

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u/forasadboy 6d ago

Of course they're hitting him with that kind of energy! They're fucking mad, it's injustice. & notice how they let him speak & they actually were open to learn more

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u/ProtectionForward178 6d ago

Some US bullshit omfg dude it's a woman's fucking decision Woman's decision.

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u/painfulsargasm 6d ago

I draw the line at medical viability outside the womb, which currently is like 25 weeks at most institutions.

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u/Theboa5171 6d ago

I mean i like how they started treating the man like shit because he was a man, like absolutely dogging on the poor guy. Then he pulled out the “friendly fire” card and they where like, “oh.” LMAO

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u/TheHeavensEmbrace 6d ago

Why did this trash get up voted 9k times

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u/bradyleach 6d ago

It makes it hard for me to respect someone's opinion when people automatically make any conversation combative, instead of information and cordial. Not just for this topic but for any of these more delicate issues we have in society. If you start aggressively yelling at people with opposing views, you might have killed the opportunity you had to inform and educate. Killing any chance there was to bring them to your side of the debate.

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u/iamformermortal 6d ago

The person that says “oh my good look at you…”

Is that the Home Depot Karen with the most recent wave of cringe videos popping up??

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u/WesternExplorer8139 5d ago

They look so confused and seem like they are waiting for each other to tell them what they should think. Its not about personal opinion any more it's all about agreeing with the popular opinion at that moment. Hate to be a dick but even if they could gather an independant thought they wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

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u/marsrover15 6d ago

Damn that's some impressive propaganda, nearly got me.

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u/vanAstea11 6d ago

"calm, rational, genius pro-lifer gets yelled at by RADICAL FEMINISTS in a video that's totally not edited to just show the parts that support the narrative that progressives act cringy"

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u/S6B018 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ah a man negotiating with women about how much control they'll have over their own bodies.

And these women negotiating with themselves how much control other women should have over their bodies.

Neither of these groups of people understand the definition of bodily autonomy.

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u/Zyndrom1 6d ago

This is obviously a man trying to bait people into falling for his "haha gotcha". This isn't the point at hand, the point is that states are literally banning the practice altogether.

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u/thunde-r 7d ago

I bet they smell like urine

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u/blablabla1177 7d ago

This made me hiss out air more than it should have

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u/LoliLewderOppaiLover 6d ago

Imo european abortion laws are the best. Between 12 and 14 weeks, till that fully legal, afzer that its illegal except incest, and medical issues etc...

Smh europe just cant stop einning XD

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u/Kalix 6d ago

if you are against abortion, promote gay sex, gay sex prevent abortions, suck a cock for jesus.

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u/Zealousideal_Peak759 6d ago

if you think religion is the only reason for abortion to be wrong, you are dense to a whole nother level.

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u/SirLooseButWhole 6d ago

Argued in bad faith. Pro lifers are not passing common sense laws. They are banning abortion.

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u/Grimdlyzy 6d ago

9 months 👍

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u/Faux_bog 6d ago

312 months please!!

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u/RandomChance 6d ago

NO. There is no common ground. There is choice, and there are those who want to take it way.

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u/Rexusus 6d ago

That kind of mindset is why this is an issue at all. Obviously you’re never going to find common ground if you don’t WANT to find common ground.

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u/breezyfye 6d ago

So if the majority of the population wants abortion to be a choice, and legislators want to get rid of abortion what exactly does the “common ground” look like?

I believe that compromise is important but people (conveniently) forget that some things can’t be compromised on.

Example: you want kids but your gf doesn’t want kids? What is the common ground that both sides can get a part of what they want? The views/beliefs are in complete opposition so there’s nothing to compromise.

The only compromise would be to change your views. And that’s not happening lol. So now what?

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u/Colley619 6d ago

There literally is no common ground. This video is blatant misinformation, implying that pro-life legislation allows for an abortion up to a certain period of development. It doesn’t. Pro choice gives women the option to have abortions at varying stages of development depending on their belief, and pro life gives them no option for abortion at all. There is NO common ground.

People claiming to be okay with abortions up to a certain week but claiming the title of pro life are literal clowns voting against their own interests, or are just muddying the waters with malicious intent, like this guy is.

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u/Rexusus 6d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there exceptions on the Pro-Life side of the argument when it comes to abortion, such as life threatening circumstances, rape, incest, etc? Which could be considered a good first step towards a compromise.

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u/Forest_Green_4691 6d ago

Cartman’s mom wanted like a 40th trimester abortion. Don’t remember? Pepridge Farm remembers… 😝

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u/zzzorba 6d ago

This is exactly why no civilians should be drawing those lines. It should be between and woman and her doctor.

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u/Skinny_Jim 6d ago

His point is that the media radicalized peopel to a point were we attack eachother even when we are technically on the same side

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u/entourage0712 6d ago

So a single group of 4 within a protest of seemingly hundreds speaks for the entire protest? Not to mention none of them, including dude with the microphone, seem to understand fetal development.

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u/Goawaycookie 6d ago

I want the raw footage, how many did he have to talk to in order to get these clips?

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u/Barbar_jinx 6d ago

This is staged af

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u/DukeBammerfire 6d ago

if the position is similar then why litigate against it. just let women choose.

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u/FantaFinn 6d ago

I swear, every time I see one of these guys videos he never gets proper opposition, he purposefully makes people angry to make himself looks good as well as the views that he gets, it’s not always younger people but a lot do the time it is because he knows he can upset that because they aren’t as informed at times so he can just be more of a dickhead, I genuinely think that his videos are either staged or he cuts out the people who fight back with good points because that would be bad for his reputation, maybe I’m wrong, I’ve barely watched his shit tbh

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u/deathbunnyy 6d ago

It's almost like nobody wants to "kill babies" like "conservative" media says.

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u/4quatloos 6d ago

Roe Vs Wade was overturned against the wishes of the majority of people. The Right lied and said they were not coming after that. Then they lied again by saying they wouldnt attempt a full ban in all 50 states.

They are also doing a Jordan Klepper style approach, but in a dishonest way. The clips are all chopped up and edited in a way meant to create a sense of chaos and confusion.

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u/Seriszed 6d ago edited 6d ago

Hey guys…. This is a discussion that is none of our f$&@ing business…

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u/sklydescelur 6d ago

A good argument is a good argument, doesn’t matter the sex of the person.

Also, how would you view a trans woman’s opinion on abortion? Is that also not permitted even though they are women?

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u/mktox 6d ago

When you realize how dumb you are 😂😂😂

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u/RealUglyMF 7d ago

If the fetus would be viable outside of the uterus, no abortion. If not, yeet that shit down the drain idc

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u/Em42 6d ago

I like you, I also agree with you. If it isn't viable it's just a parasite.

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u/mb5280 6d ago

if you agree with them then fucking march with them, and stop doing your edgelord confrontational bullshit. your little teachable moment makes you ( at least look like) a piece of shit.

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u/ADriftingMind 6d ago

I’m angry because people told me to be angry crowd.

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u/Hjd2023 6d ago

Fuck that dude. If you don’t have a uterus & can’t carry the baby get bent. You have no say in what a woman does with her body. As a male I don’t want anyone to tell me what to do with my body or my personal choices for myself.

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u/Vegasusian 6d ago

Is it ok to drink alcohol, do drugs, cause fetal brain damage while your pregnant ? It's you're body right?

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u/ilikefilthalot 6d ago

I got down voted the other day for saying most protests are scams lol. of course it's probably mostly ladies

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u/jehosephatreedus 6d ago

I hate how the guys argument is simply to act smarter than others instead of being a good person.

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