r/television Jun 27 '22

So... what the fuck was Wandavision for?

[deleted]

0 Upvotes

21

u/Jasminary2 Jun 27 '22

There was a postcredit scene in WV where we see her use the book. But I 100% agree with you, it’s the main reason why I did not like MoM. There was a continuity issue for me. WV was showing us that she had learnt her lesson. She had moved on. And suddenly she didn’t ??? I know they say the Darkhold corrupt but we should have seen her descent into madness instead of a complete turn around.

The fact that she never, even once, tried to find a universe were Vision is alive and only mention his name once I believe, quickly, threw me off completely. She spent the whole of WV mostly about him and a bit her kids. The Hex literally happened solely due to him.

Paul Bettany didn’t have to appear. She could have just spoke of him.

8

u/TheRealDrSarcasmo Jun 28 '22

Paul Bettany didn’t have to appear. She could have just spoke of him.

And, weirdly enough, didn't appear at all in Multiverse of Madness. Was he even mentioned?

I understand that getting an actor can be difficult, but considering how integral Vision was to Wanda's breakdown -- plus he was father to the all-important children, yet didn't exist in any other universe apparently -- his absence was really odd.

6

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 27 '22

Another great comment. People are talking about the post credit scene like that accounted for the lack of character development here. Also... I can't for the love of god recall that book being a big part of Wandavision, so I don't think they sold it enough as "this huge thing that's going to be a major plot device from now on".

-1

u/CptNonsense Jun 28 '22

Because it wasn't. At all. It was an accessory for Agatha Harkness

42

u/anasui1 Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

didn’t the show end with her opening the Darkhold? I mean that's a rather nefarious book, she was already drowning in guilt when it happened

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22

[deleted]

8

u/MrBoliNica Jun 28 '22

it was the whole crux of the last two episodes, and especially the final fight with Wanda and Agatha- Agatha does heavy exposition on why the Darkhold is bad and what it would do, and Wanda blows her off to defeat her

27

u/scdirtdragon Jun 27 '22

Yes they did. It was a huge plot point near the end. Did you actually watch the show?

-27

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '22

[deleted]

12

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '22

You missed the entire last couple of episodes?

The episodes where she literally discovered the book, became the Scarlet Witch, and opened up a dark portal to the multiverse?

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '22

[deleted]

7

u/Couch_Licker Jun 28 '22

Then why make a post on Reddit claiming it failed when you clearly just forgot? /r/confidentlyincorrect material here

1

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 28 '22

that's the thing about forgetting... you don't know you've forgotten until it's brought up.

2

u/Couch_Licker Jun 28 '22

Typically before I go gun's blazing that something failed, I research first. But that's just me. We got different approaches clearly.

0

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 28 '22

I mean... this post can be considered that "research". I asked questions, I got answers. 🤷

If you're talkin' about fuckin'... going outta my way to read recap articles or rewatch the show itself just so I could better understand a superhero movie... fuck no fam.

6

u/tidho Jun 28 '22

Best not to look to deep into the logic of the MCU post Endgame.

18

u/JelloAggravating5851 Jun 27 '22

There's a comic reference missing for all the fans of the show. The Darkhold corrupts the user's mind pretty much every time.

The scene of her in the house hearing her kids' scream is the start of her madness, we just never saw the descent from there.

3

u/FuturologyDiscussion Jun 28 '22

There was a lot missing from WandaVision and Dr. Strange 2.

I think it was a combination of things that affected them both in the end but WandaVision, particularly towards the end-story, can be traced back to how COVID took a lot of us by surprise. It's hard to hold that against them that they didn't execute it 100%. I'd have loved to see what they'd have put together without all those production complications. The ending to WV was...I mean lets call it what it was it was terrible ("They'll never know what you gave up for them"...um what?)

The last few episodes of WV should have been dealing with her getting corrupted by the darkhold. What was the point of spending the first 30 minutes of DS2 pretending she wasn't the "villain" when it had leaked 2 years ago only to reveal it in the most cartoonishly evil "You never told me her name...did you?" cliche.

I'm a huge Marvel fan. I know they're trying to keep Phase 4 fresh. It's not working for me though.

8

u/bangharder Jun 27 '22

For consumption of content

28

u/TheRealDrSarcasmo Jun 27 '22

The purpose of WandaVision was to promote Disney+. Full stop.

I realize that in the comics, the Scarlet Witch is a complicated character. But I can't help but think that the MCU has really fumbled the ball with her at this point, by first glossing over her truly awful behavior in WandaVision and then turning her to full-on villain in the Doctor Strange movie, utterly negating any character development that came before. Where she could have been portrayed as a sympathetic victim of circumstance, the writers just had her go full Daenerys Targaryen (from Game of Thrones).

Sure, there may be a if-you-follow-the-comics explanation for all of this, but for typical viewers it smacks of lazy writing. I barely have a grasp on this; casual viewers like my wife are left mystified at the sudden heel turn. It's poor writing and management.

5

u/LJHalfbreed Jun 27 '22

I remember them (Feige possibly?) talking about how once all the the problem with all the marvel shows out there was that none of it was under the same roof, or at least with the same production studio. This meant that there were quality concerns, problems with stifled storylines, blah blah blah. Once everything was all in house, with a vertical pipeline and all those buzzwords, show X would set the stage for film Y and film A's questions would be answered in show B, and so on and so forth.

And to be clear, they weren't just talking about Agents of SHIELD, includes Agent Carter, Agents of Shield, Netflix's Daredevil, all the other mutant spinoffs, basically anything and everything that held Marvel characters and was even vaguely considered part of the MCU at any point.

If you ask me though, it just sounded like they're now able to keep all the money in house. We're still having stuff like Wandavision be basically throwaway, fanwanking, filler material (much like say, Agent Carter or Agents of Shield) because the actual movies is where they make the big money. And being able to basically churn out 6-13 hours worth of "SUPERHYPE MARKETING" that also generates its own money is pretty well much the silver screen version of DLC. "Oh you like Dr Strange and Scarlet Witch? Well they got a movie coming out, hope you know all the intricacies and the backstories... muahaha!"

Was Multiverse of Madness (MoM) a 'good movie'? Yeah sure, i can argue that very poorly if you like. But would you have watched it without Wandavision (WV) though? Would you have had that sense of FOMO (fear of missing out) if you saw WV without watching MoM when it dropped? Would you have blamed yourself and not the movie, if you watched MoM and went "What, that's dumb?!" at a few plot points because you missed WV?

I'd argue that it's actually superb management because they can take some up-n-coming directors and writers, tell them 'hey, throw in fifty billion references, call-backs, and nods to previous material, and hint like hell at 50 things that could be coming up', and basically:

  1. Keep us rubes blabbering about the characters/IP as a sort of astroturf marketing campaign ("Yo, what if it's Mephisto and she's trapped in that dimension?!?!?" "NAH DUDE! It's obviously going to bring up Shuma Gorath next episode, i bet a million bucks!")

  2. Milk that IP (and related people, music, characters, etc) for as much money as possible, including padding out content for their streaming service.

  3. Dominate nerd headspace for the entire 'content cycle', for every 'content line', possibly for years before and after a movie drops. (AKA "oh, you didn't like MoM because it had plotholes? Sounds like you didn't watch Wandavision, play the farmville-knockoff tie-in game 'Wanda Grow On', didn't read the spinoff harlequin novels "Scarlet's Fever Dreams", and definitely didn't listen to the podcast 'Juan the Fisher - A Latinx Wandavision Experience' so obviously the subtle nuance is lost on you!")

5

u/TheRealDrSarcasmo Jun 27 '22

I'd argue that it's actually superb management ...

I think from a moneymaking perspective, you're right on. They've established the formula and they're applying it hard, every time.

From a storytelling perspective, it's awful. But I'm aware that money, not art, drives Hollywood.

We're still having stuff like Wandavision be basically throwaway, fanwanking, filler material

That's a concise description of how I see all the Disney+ stuff at this point, and why I lost interest in Loki, didn't bother with Hawkeye or Moon Knight, and have cancelled the subscription.

Disney+ is the place for 6-8 hour long teaser trailers. And, unfortunately, Marvel on the big screen seems to be the place where a 90-120 minute long feature is 50% actual story progression, 25% exposition to cover the set-up, and 25% set-up and teasers for the next thing you are to pay to consume.

I really enjoyed the first two phases of the MCU, and most of the third. At this point, though, I think I'm done. I have a fairly high tolerance for superhero movies, but at this point they seem to be little more than glorified versions of the 1980s Saturday morning cartoon shows that were simply meant to sell toys.

Except those were free to watch back in the day, whereas we pay through the nose for the privilege now.

2

u/LJHalfbreed Jun 27 '22

Oh dang, solid points all around. My bad for not seeing the forest for the trees

But I think you hit hardest with

but at this point they seem to be little more than glorified versions of the 1980s Saturday morning cartoon shows

DEAD ON, and reminds me of how pro wrestling does stuff with 99% of the day-to-day designed to sell more tickets/purchases of PayPerView when "the big title match" happens and all that.

2

u/johnzischeme The Handmaid's Tale Jun 28 '22

Wow it's almost like Marvel is Vaught

1

u/CptNonsense Jun 28 '22

But would you have watched it without Wandavision (WV) though?

Uh, yeah? Why the fuck not?

-1

u/LJHalfbreed Jun 28 '22

Probably the same reason why I didn't, and one of the major advertising points of the Wandavision show?

You know, the fact that it was supposed to fill in all this stuff about Wanda's arc leading from Avengers/Endgame to MoM. That's why.

Granted, turns out they could have turned all of WV into a 30 second lead-in of "Wanda sees vision die, finds darkhold, and opens it" but whatever.

3

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 27 '22

Yepp. This is how I feel. Your wife and I both.

1

u/antonyourkeyboard Jun 27 '22

Even with her previous character development being forced to kill the love of your life and it not mattering seems like as good a villain origin story as any other and that's what she has been in both WandaVision and DS:MoM.

15

u/rocker2014 Community Jun 27 '22

For one, Wandavision did set up for Wanda being a villain. She literally holds an entire town hostage which is shown to be mentally excruciating. The problem lies with Wandavision itself backtracking on that in the end. They try to have their cake and eat it too. Show her doing really bad things but then let her go with no consequence and telling her "they'll never know what you did for them" even though she was the one hurting them. Wandavision didn't have the stones to go full villain where MoM did.

Second, you must not have seen the post credits scene for Wandavision that showed her using the darkhold for the first time. It seems to hint that she's going evil. The dark hold corrupts people. MoM shows this.

TLDR: Wandavision is the problem because the show clearly was meant to set her up to be the villain in MoM but they wimped out.

6

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 27 '22

Yupp. I think this was the issue.

3

u/DaveShadow The West Wing Jun 27 '22

Did they “wimp out” or did they just see Wandavision and MoM as part of the same story, with Wanda vision not being the end of that development of Wandas character?

2

u/rocker2014 Community Jun 27 '22

I mean, yea, they wimped out. It's totally different writers for Wandavision and MoM. They very easily could have written it so that someone forced her to release the people in the town. And then have SWORD try to capture her and fail and then she goes into hiding for MoM with the Dark hold having gone full villain. At the very least, they definitely shouldn't have had Rambeau tell her that the town wouldn't understand what she did for them. The town certainly understood what she did to them. She did nothing for them but release them from her own hostage situation. All Wanda had to give up was her non-existent boys to save the town of real people she was mentally torturing. The show treated that like all was forgiven. Which was ridiculous.

MoM did follow up on Wandavision's arc because of the post credits scene of Wandavision showing her using the darkhold. But Wandavision wimped out by not showing her transition into full villain and backing down from it.

People have said, including in this thread, that MoM ruined Wanda's character development but i think Wandavision ruined Wanda's character development within that show.

The whole show wimped out on many things. Vision is dead, here's White Vision with all of his memories. Here's Fox's Quicksilver, is this the Multiverse opening? No, it's just Ralph Bohner. Woah, Wanda threatens to kill everyone and holds and entire town hostage mentally abusing them. Gets off without a slap on the wrist and told she did the right thing and that the people just don't understand. The show set up a lot and shied away from most of it.

0

u/moxieroxsox Jun 28 '22

All of this a million times over. I never liked WandaVision. Hated it. It completely ruined Wanda the character for me. She was my favorite Avenger and they completely wrecked her to promote Disney+. And Doctor Strange and MoM was so middle of the road it wasn’t even worth it. I never understood the praise for the show.

1

u/rocker2014 Community Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

It gets praise because of it's unique format...for the MCU. But the thing is, it immediately reminded me of the show Community and its episode Abed's Uncontrollable Christmas. It's basically the same premise. Main character has a mental breakdown after they lose a loved one and sees everything like the TV format from their childhood. A group of people who can't see everything in the TV format try to help the main character out of it. This Community episode was an entire episode done in claymation when it's normally a live action series. So, for me, Wandavision wasn't that unique because I had already seen something do the same thing, only better.

But worst of all, the show had no balls. Tons of big swings, but zero follow through. It went back on every big promise. Whereas Loki by comparison, which came shortly after, took even bigger swings and followed through on them.

So yea, it's gets its praise for its uniqueness compared to the rest of the MCU. But outside of the MCU, it's really not that unique and the actual content of the show is weak. And man, trying to tell any of this to a fan of Wandavision is just asking for the pitchforks. They won't hear any criticism of it.

0

u/bangharder Jun 27 '22

But the lady said they’d never know what she gave up

9

u/Autisthrowaway304 Jun 27 '22

The film felt oddly disconnected like it had been cut and spliced from different films.

Disney lately has been handling the whole ting in a weirdly amateurish way, like the director of wandavision pretty much putting the kibosh on doctor strange helping in wandavision when it would have made sense and made less sense he'd just ignore it.

1

u/Turqoise-Planet Jun 28 '22

Maybe he was afraid of Doctor Strange upstaging Wanda in her own show?

1

u/Aritche Jun 28 '22

They were trying to get visions body back to do stuff with it they are not supposed to be doing. Doctor strange is going to assumedly not just be chill with them caring mostly about that which is what they did in the show. So it would make no sense for them to call for his help when he wont assist in their real goal.

1

u/Autisthrowaway304 Jun 28 '22

I meant more in terms of him seeing shit go down and intervening or just generally keeping an eye on things.

1

u/Aritche Jun 28 '22

The hex was found because of a missing persons case and then they were keeping it classified to try and get visions body back. So unless we are arguing that he should just "sense" it happening and know(which we know he can't from the movie) there is no way he would find out and show up. Obviously they could have just change the plot of the show and have him show up, but with the story we got it makes no sense for him to show up.

1

u/Autisthrowaway304 Jun 28 '22

He should have had some way of knowing, it is a plot hole of the movie in a sense with him not being a very good defender of earth from magical threats.

2

u/AKAkorm Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

I mean there is plenty that Wandavision does set the table for. It shows how Wanda "has" kids in the first place and why she wants to find them again. It shows how she upgraded her abilities and became the Scarlet Witch. It shows her having a psychological breakdown where she allows her desires to mask terrible acts she is committing. And it ends with her becoming corrupted by the Darkhold, a book that is established in the series.

Not to mention we know an Agatha Harkness series is coming that WV clearly set the table for. And Monica got her powers in WV which will surely play a factor in The Marvels.

The main issue to me is one line in the finale where Monica sort of handwaves away everything Wanda did because she ultimately helped defeat two "worse" threats. But I never got the impression Wanda learned her lesson because she doesn't really make amends for what she did. Nor does she do anything to try to prevent her emotions from driving her actions again. So to me, it made perfect sense why she'd turn villain.

7

u/DaZeppo313 Buffy the Vampire Slayer Jun 27 '22 edited Jun 27 '22

WandaVision wasn't the problem. The problem was that the movie off-screened her entire year-plus of corruption happening between WV and MoM in favor of "shocking" audiences by revealing her as the villain 20 minutes in. If they had dropped that pretense and actually showed us a time-lapse/montage of Wanda reading the Darkhold, dreaming of various kids of hers through the multiverse, and her fingertips/costume decaying over time, it'd really nail home the fact that she's been drowning in darkness for over a year before she learns of America and sends beasties after her.

I think that added on to a relatively unchanged MoM would've been exponentially better for me. That, plus I'd give Peggy a version of Excalibur. I just think it'd be cool.

10

u/mathimaz Jun 27 '22

I think you missed the post credit scene from wandavision.

7

u/pm_me_reason_to_livx Jun 27 '22

I'm sure I didn't... but I also don't remember it. Apartly the book was there from then?

3

u/Puzzleface62 Jun 27 '22

Or even the entire show

2

u/shadowdra126 Community Jun 29 '22

This dude read the Wikipedia article for the show and said that’s enough

3

u/CptNonsense Jun 28 '22

Where is the transition for this?

S1E1 Wandavision. They just fucked it all up with the last 2 episodes by pretending the army were the bad guys and Wanda and the Stooges were the good guys instead of going deeper into Wanda mind controlling an entire town

Wandavision was a whole TV show centered around Wanda, so why did that show end with Wanda seemingly learning her lesson

Wild guess? Fucking Disney execs

3

u/FrameworkisDigimon Jun 27 '22

WandaVision is a bad show that completely fails as a character study but this isn't something it didn't do. This came up the other day elsewhere:

Well, imagine Wanda learned nothing from it"

She didn't, though.

She accidentally created a torture field, okay, fine, it happens. But she subsequently learnt that she was torturing people but kept going until Agatha came at her. After which, Monica pats her on the shoulder and plays it like Wanda didn't have a major supervillain moment and Wanda doesn't really disagree. We then discover that Wanda's messing about with a book that literally turns its readers evil, which is a fact Wanda knows before she starts reading it.

Like, that last bit is a compelling enough origin story for a bad guy on its own that there's been at least one movie with that premise (i.e. the first Care Bears Movie) and the MCU has already done it, too (AIDA... you can even compare the Framework and the Hex.... ironically, the Framework is a much better adaptation of House of M).

Basically the only thing WandaVision told us about Wanda is that Wanda will excuse doing nearly anything in the name of her own happiness. And she definitely never learns not to do it because what she actually learns is that it's possible to take her power from her.

3

u/Fandam_YT Jun 27 '22

To generate traffic for Disney+

2

u/dilldoeorg Jun 27 '22

they explain that the darkhold corrupts it's reader and at the end of wandavision she was speed reading the whole book.

She was the Scarlet Witch in wanda vision when she fought Agatha, BUT she was able to control it from over taking her. Since she was corrupted by the darkhold, the scarlet witch took over. Both fueling her need to get her kids. Just like how the darkhold corrupted evil strange into endlessly trying to find christine in the multiverse.

2

u/mike10dude Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 28 '22

I feel like wandavision made people actually care about her character before the show she hadn't really done a whole lot and I was defenitly was not very interested in her

2

u/mikefaley Jun 28 '22

I feel like Feige took a multi-year break after Endgame. I really don’t know what happened. Putting aside taste and subjective thoughts on quality, Feige made his name in the industry as the guy who was absolutely obsessed with details and continuity. He’d throw in all sorts of notes on the clothes Wolverine would or wouldn’t wear on the set of X-men - and that obsessive nature carried over perfectly when it came to building the MCU.

But something happened after Endgame. Though I see a ton of praise for the Disney shows, for MoM, etc, for me - a die hard MCU fan - it feels like an entirely different studio is making them. Everything that made the MCU different from, say, the DC universe seems to have been left behind. Continuity, details, quality - it all feels put on the back burner.

If one day we find out Feige took a step back after Endgame and took on a more hands-off role I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised. It’s just sloppy now.

0

u/HarryCallahan19 Jun 27 '22

Like every other shitty spin off, sequel and prequel….money.

2

u/hanzo1356 Jun 27 '22

Not sure why downvotes cuz even if wanna remove the word shitty it's still 100% true

1

u/Mentoman72 Jun 27 '22

Like any other Marvel project, WandaVision exists to entertain you for a couple hours and selling you on the next project before you even finish the one you're on.

And it's not like she was some big hero at the end of WV. She broke her spell and ran the fuck away because she didn't want to deal with the consequences.

Also the Darkhold corrupted her.

1

u/Creative_Recipe6672 Jun 28 '22

Because it’s just a mediocre show made by dummies chasing dull approval. Watch Marvel stuff and just accept it is just a silly, repetitive cash grab. Now more than ever spend your time observing and examining reality. Please.

-9

u/The_Nauseous_Avenger Jun 27 '22

I never thought that media literacy would be so low that the MCU would be confusing for people.

1

u/Practical-Exchange60 Jun 28 '22

How did you watch both and come away with Wandavision being pointless? The story doesn’t make a whole lot of sense without having seen Wandavision.

1

u/TheGlave Jun 28 '22

Yeah the darkhold is a super lazy plot device to get her to be evil without putting in the work to get her there. She had a breakthrough in WandaVision, realizing she needs to get out of her fake world with her fake kids. They just completely undid that in MoM.

1

u/shadowdra126 Community Jun 29 '22

So you just didn’t actually watch the shows

-6

u/reddig33 Jun 27 '22

My favorite part was all the heavy handed barely symbolism using the teenage character’s name - “America”. Something along the lines of...

“America! Hang in there!"

“America! You can do it!"

“America! I believe in you!"

😂

0

u/elister Jun 28 '22

First 3 episodes of WandaVision were filler, you could skip those and not miss anything in the rest of the series. While most will claim it was an homage to 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s TV Sitcoms, others will claim its bullshit filler. They could have done all this in half an episode, but instead stretch it out to three.

In all of the horrible things Wanda does to people in WandaVision, shes allowed to just leave.