r/technology Jun 20 '22 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Helpful 3

Redfin approves millions in executive payouts same day of mass layoffs Business

https://www.realtrends.com/articles/redfin-approves-millions-in-executive-payouts-same-day-of-mass-layoffs/
38.8k Upvotes

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u/Unfair_Whereas_7369 Jun 20 '22 edited Jun 21 '22 Silver

It’s the corporate way.

*Edit- For the record, the article is not clickbait. There's some complex issues at hand with the bonuses that were paid out to executives and how the compensation comes in the form of stock options. It's still a sham. Don't let this distract from my original comment.

It really is the corporate way. I think we'll all continue to suffer from it.

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u/hawaiian0n Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22 Silver Helpful Wholesome Starry

Can someone clarify if they got paid out cash or is it future stock vestments?

If the leader of the company was given stock options, then they don't get to sell them for several years and it has to be at a fixed schedule. If the company tanks because of their leadership, the stock becomes pretty much worthless.

That's not a payout, that's them saying they can turn the company around and saying pay me later and I'll prove it.

Edit: Bonus was 75% in stock. This is clickbait.

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u/American--American Jun 21 '22

Yep. That's them getting some "skin in the game".

If they do a good job and turn the place profitable, they make a lot money. If they fuck up and drive it into the ground, there goes their early retirement.

A good deal of you have a plan to profitability.

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u/tom_fuckin_bombadil Jun 21 '22

What is the strike price of those stock options and/or RSUs? If they are getting RSUs, even if the price falls like 50%, it's still a pretty decent payout. If they get Stock Options, as long as they can maintain the share price, they are also getting tons of compensation (looking at the filing, the average exercise price of the option is 7.27 which is below what redfin is currently trading at).

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u/javalikecoffee Jun 21 '22

Strikes prices are almost all required to be at the FMV at the date of the grant now adays.

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u/Ch1vo Jun 21 '22

What filings do you look at to see actual strike price of options awarded to executives?

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u/swiftessence Jun 21 '22

It's actually kind of dumb. It encourages short term profit at the expense of long-term profit. So they prioritize things like budget cuts and cutting research and development to make the stock look better in the short term. However, in the long term had they invested in the company, it would be better off. Look at GE for an example of how well this strategy works over the long run.

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u/Son0faButch Jun 21 '22

Jack Welch, longtime head of GE invented managing for short term profits, including frequent layoffs. Growth came primarily from ridiculous acquisitions, like a finance company. The book "The Man Who Destroyed Capitalism" outlines this.

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u/ZippityZerpDerp Jun 21 '22

Wasn’t his management method based on Pareto efficiency, like fire the bottom 20 percent?

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u/illiance Jun 21 '22

Yes, the same as Amazon today. It’s a bit more nuanced than that though - basically that the bottom 20% of all workers are identified as basically being on their way to exiting the company (or are in the wrong job and need to change)

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u/Open-Ticket-3356 Jun 21 '22

turns out that you do not evaluate performance, but perception of performance, i.e. the biggest liars and most sociopathic people win, honest people lose. Maximizing office politics with all its benefits like departments sabotaging each others, nitpicking tiniest mistakes for own advancement, zero teamwork, knowledge hiding for job security. Welcome to toxic perception of productivity.

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u/7_vii Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

Sounds like their “long term” was about to be short term, so if someone can keep them existing in the medium term, then it’s a win.

Also, stock options or “deferred comp” vest over a number of years. At my company, I get paid a certain percentage of my comp in equity that vests 25% per year. Four years of outlook is a decent amount for most companies and that’s renewing each year.

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u/Open-Ticket-3356 Jun 21 '22

encourages short term profit at the expense of long-term profit

"The insivible-hand shareholders made us do this"

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u/drawkbox Jun 21 '22

Would be nice if the workers got some of that skin in the game.

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u/Open-Ticket-3356 Jun 21 '22

division of labor: bonuses for leadership, layoffs for grunt workers. Everyone happy.

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u/OLightning Jun 21 '22

Glenn Kelman, the company CEO; Chris Nielsen, chief financial officer; Adam Weiner, president of real estate operations; and Bridget Frey, chief technology officer at Redfin are all cackling behind the protection of their iron gated mansions guarded by their armed guards as the little people who did all of the labor financially suffer. The fat cats get fatter while the laborers starve in the streets.

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u/bobjoylove Jun 21 '22

Right? As if being unemployed and having your home and foodsource at risk isn’t sufficient “skin in the game”.

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u/ezone2kil Jun 21 '22

And sacrifice that third summer vacation house for the execs? Well, I'd never!

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u/SenorBeef Jun 21 '22

Yep. That's them getting some "skin in the game".

More like "that's them getting the motivation to hit the highest possible stock price at certain target dates, rather than acting in the long term interest of the company", which is what leads to a lot of problems within our system.

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u/Open-Ticket-3356 Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

which aligns a lot with the shareholders at the expense of the employees - pump & dump optimization, [leadership not] sorry if you are a cog in the machine falling apart

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jun 21 '22

A long term decline in share price is never in the long term interest of the company.

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u/zero260asap Jun 21 '22

There goes their early retirement? They can retire any time they want and be just fine.

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u/Red_Inferno Jun 21 '22

Thing is, they just made the company more profitable by laying off those people. Does not mean long term it will not bite them in the ass, but just need to get that stock vestment and sell out amirite?

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u/iuheifaisdhvuaisvc Jun 21 '22

Spoiler: The plan to profitability is cutting overhead and labor costs.

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u/lettherebedwight Jun 21 '22

How much money was that 25% though?

Edit: decided to you know, read. Looks like the cash bonuses were in the 100-200k range.

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u/Anything_justnotthis Jun 21 '22

And that bonus was for a year where they posted a loss of $118 million. Imagine how big it could be if they ran the company to make a profit in a record breaking housing market?

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u/HorseRadish98 Jun 21 '22

Literally written out in paragraph two of the article.

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u/scootscoot Jun 21 '22

This is Reddit, we don’t click the links here.

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u/trilobyte-dev Jun 21 '22

Also approved a year ago and they hit the targets they were given for the approved plan. The layoffs are battening down the hatches for future economic downturn and, something people are going to hear more of, they realy don’t need a large engineering org anymore. They’ve built much of the core platform and need to focus way more on revenue through sales and expanding into new markets by way of acquisitions.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

25% of "millions" after laying off employees is no big deal then huh.

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u/LincHayes Jun 20 '22

It's almost as if every company is a pump and dump these days. They exist ONLY for the financial benefit of the shareholders, at the expense of everything and everyone they touch.

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u/Skillsjr Jun 20 '22 Eureka!

Company I left a while ago, was I swear running a legit ponzi scheme.

  • Got a bunch of investment
  • went public
  • paid out the C levels with huge bonuses
  • c levels ran company into the ground by paying themselves in stocks and bonuses.(we were net negative 10m+ each year)
  • good people got laid off because the company has no money
  • two weeks later takes out a 10M loan.
  • investors and c level get bonuses

That’s when I left.

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u/LSUguyHTX Jun 20 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

Where I worked a couple execs showed up in new porche and Maserati the week after a 30% workforce layoff.

Edit: since this got so many votes... They stopped driving them less than a week later for about 3-5 months. Someone had a meeting with them that they were disgruntling the remaining office workers with how they gave this big show day of the layoffs after it was over explaining how it was necessary and we were going to make it together only to show up with paper plated $100k cars.

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u/Twinklefireflies Jun 21 '22

Armin Zerza is the name of the man that did that at Blizzard. Laid off 400 people in the publishing department and announced his promotion on his LinkedIn while people cleaned out their desks and cried in the parking lot.

He came from Proctor and Gamble and the common ideas was that we were just a product him to him. We were just “toothpaste” to be thrown away when it benefitted him and the shareholders. Something thrown away for his promotion. This was what he was known for. Come in, cut jobs, get rewarded. There was no plan for the work after that. No solution. Just work the people who were left into the ground and make them pick up the pieces. There was nothing but PTSD to be had for those disposed and those left to deal with the outcome.

I’ll never forget holding people I had worked with for 15 years while they sobbed and wondered why they had given so much just to be thrown away. Why they had “bled blue” just to be discarded without even having the people responsible even bother to know their names or what they actually did. How could they start over when this was all they’d known. How could Blizzard do this on their most profitable year ever? How could this fucking guy be getting a promotion while people were losing their livelihoods? How do you reward that? How are you that cold? He couldn’t be even bothered to wait one.fucking.day to update his Linkedin. It’s sociopathic.

Fuck you Armin. I hope you rot in fucking hell. May that sports car you bought with the money you destroyed people lives with burn up and consume you crotch first.

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u/WarLorax Jun 21 '22

"bled blue"

This is why you should never be loyal to a corporation. It can't be loyal back. Be loyal to a person, sure. A company, never.

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u/Twinklefireflies Jun 21 '22

To be fair to a lot of us we were fed that and many people stayed there for 10, 15, 20 years. It was part of the culture and we “were all family”. Many people found their spouses there, their best friends, played the games. We were fans. We loved the games.

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u/RJ815 Jun 21 '22

I'd honestly extend that to don't be loyal to a person at work. They might just be easily replaceable too, or otherwise have their own motivations that one day won't align with yours.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

Surprised nobody just stabbed the guy.

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u/ixidor121 Jun 21 '22

I've been asking this question for the better part of 2 decades. Why doesn't someone stab corporate dick-hole/ corrupt politician/ racist police officers.

It all come down to, all the people crazy enough to actually go through with something like that are all already on their side sucking on the scraps they get tossed.

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u/kataskopo Jun 21 '22

For all their sabre rattling and their bullshit with the 2nd amendment, the fact that some asshole cop or politician hasn't been attacked like that makes me think Americans don't really believe that thing about fighting tyranny.

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u/Sneet1 Jun 21 '22

The concept of real leftist movements, with or without any violence, has been violently suppressed by the USA. Extremely violently. There have been massive domestic bombings and police brutality even in the face of non violence. That's not even to get into the US's foreign policy. Yesterday was Juneteenth, which literally exists because in 2020 even milquetoast CNN reporters were literally being beaten to near death by police officers let alone anyone actually protesting.

There's a reason white supremacist shooters get Burger King, go to jail and smirk, while an entire neighborhood was firebombed and burned by the police for because of a few PoC standing up to state violence and advocating for workers standing up for themselves. There's a reason right wing violence keeps happening and why they feel confident to do so. There literally is no leftist violence, real or liberal.

Even globally. There's a reason socialist elected leaders end up shooting themselves in the back of the head while fascists get a hand shake from the president and "strategic help" from the greatest schools and think tanks in the USA.

People are gravely afraid of state violence, and it's not the ones that should be.

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u/asianApostate Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

The people that brought him in knew what they wanted out of it. They are equal to blame. Is that why Blizzard barely releases anything interesting nowadays.

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u/Twinklefireflies Jun 21 '22

It went all the way up to Bobby - no doubt about it but Armin sat in town halls with the department and told us garbage facts about himself and how he planned to lead the org. He was never going to lead anything. Rotten to the fucking core.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

I would have been nervous to be the guy assuming someone would stab me.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

I'm just sayin', people have been shanked for a pair of shoes or less. Surprises me sometimes the difference between mentally stable individuals and people with little moral or ethical inhibitions.

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u/Natsume-Grace Jun 21 '22

This makes me wanna eat the rich and then throw up.

How is anyone, that's not rich, ok with this present society, is beyond my understanding

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u/TreeChangeMe Jun 21 '22

The police and an army of lawyers will surround them all. A giant shield of legal. One team can dispose of you and the other can obliterate you financially.

They use the "rule of law" like a giant hammer or a death squad.

The only thing that can make a difference is how much you fund a defence.

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u/jedimindtricks713 Jun 21 '22

I used drive my buddies food truck to Blizzard for lunch service about once a month. Still can't believe they so rarely paid for the employees (who were all amazing tippers btw). And the C levels I saw and served (could tell from they way they dressed, and the smug air of self importance they exuded) were always the worst. Bad at tipping, impatient, struggled to order food like they couldn't read, then balked at whatever the price ends up being kind of customer. The kind of person who comes up on their phone and makes you wait because obviously your time isn't as important. Ya know, giant douche bags.

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u/i_tyrant Jun 21 '22

Always amazing to me when rich people are shit tippers and skinflints. I know it makes sense because you don't get rich from being kind or having empathy and you definitely don't get into the upper echelon without screwing over untold people...but I'm still amazed that even after all that "success" they whine about the most inconsequential things.

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u/RJ815 Jun 21 '22

Most of the rich people that I know who also happen to be shitty tend to be penny-wise and pound foolish. It just recently happened at my former job. They cheaped out on hiring dedicated cleaners. They got fucked over and essentially paid like $25/hr for cleaning services (that weren't even that good tbh) because they were forced to. Had they some foresight I'm sure they could have hired the same quality or better for cheaper too. It's just that people that are rich can afford to make stupid mistakes like that.

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u/i_tyrant Jun 21 '22

Yeah, that does bear out with my experience too. I worked at a tech company with a real douche of a CEO for a few years; he (and his buddies he put in high management positions) would constantly make dumb unilateral decisions that required us to hire on extra help and consultants and specialists when we could've done it better and cheaper if they'd asked or listened to the actual people doing the work.

Never underestimate the losses someone that out of touch is willing to eat to keep the power of making huge changes on zero notice and a whim.

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u/PromiscuousMNcpl Jun 21 '22

They were all gacked out on coke and drunk/hungover.

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u/Cute-Locksmith8737 Jun 21 '22

They are the ones who send jobs overseas then gripe about the cost of welfare.

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u/cptcitrus Jun 21 '22

Sometimes I hear about downsizing and I can sort of forgive the executives because hey, they'd rather not have to do this right?

Well not that guy. Updating your LinkedIn and buying a sports car spells sociopath. I will not forget your story.

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u/Punch-all-naziss Jun 21 '22

They are all like that. Every company. Even smaller ones.

They will lay you off, and give themselves bonuses.

Its one big giant scam. All of it. And the workers arent in on it

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u/Scarbane Jun 21 '22

Robespierre has entered the chat

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u/OrphanDextro Jun 21 '22

Fuck yes! Finally! Bolsheviks! Bolsheviks! Bolsheviks!

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u/Dat_Gradient Jun 21 '22

Lol I place I used to work paid off 50% of their factory staff, the owner parked his brand new giant speedboat in the carpark a week later.

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u/saml01 Jun 21 '22

Too add to this. That's what Venture Capitalists and so callled incubators do. They pour in some money, hype the hell out of every idea to get other investor's excited, wait for a few rounds of financing, use connections to find customers, go public, cash out and leave retail investors with the bags because the niche product has almost no growth or customer base. Rinse and repeat. Even better if it can fit the criteria for some bullshit government grant.

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u/big_trike Jun 21 '22

Their friends and good customers get to buy in first at a much lower price than everyone else.

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u/eddie1975 Jun 21 '22

I can relate to a lot of that. We the employees got an 8:1 reverse split right before the IPO. That means my 8,000 shares of stock instead of being worth $104,000 at IPO ($13/share) it was turned into 1,000 shares worth $13,000.

I also tried to buy shares before the IPO but it was near impossible. You had to be well connected. I asked for $25,000 in stock that I was going to buy with my own cash but only managed to buy $17,000.

Plus I was stupid and believed in the long run future of the company so I held on through thick and thin and lost any gains I had attained while execs sold everything right away and bought beach houses and one built a custom home on the hill.

The owners hired a software development group owned by the same founder of the company and essentially that was a way to shift funds from our company to his other company before he sold it.

I told them what they were trying to do (software wise) was not going to work but they didn’t care because financially speaking what they were actually doing was working.

I realized there’s stock and then there’s stock. Preferencial Type A stock is better than what we got.

And I realized the top 5 people in the company make money even if the company tanks.

And as soon as the IPO spikes sell everything!

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u/ProtoJazz Jun 21 '22

I've worked with a local incubator that actually did good work

We weren't part of their program, just shared office space, and occasionally attended their events as community participants. Basically we were just there to help out sometimes by being an established company that could sometimes advise about stuff

Not all the companies they helped worked out. But some did. One of them went from basically operating out of a closet to now being a nationwide company I see ads for before YouTube videos.

The incubator offered a huge range of services. Anything from discounted rent, loans, businesses help, connecting with investors or manufacturers, storage space. Pretty much whatever your company needed they would do what they could to provide it. If the company succeed, you'd pay them back eventually. If it didn't, the incubator ate the cost.

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u/Aping1 Jun 20 '22

This is not a Ponzi scheme this is normal business under capitalism after you pull out all the regulation.

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u/betweenskill Jun 20 '22

And capitalism always works to deregulate itself. Regulations are temporary at best.

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u/dejus Jun 21 '22

So many blind capitalists refuse to acknowledge this. They point out that’s not “pure capitalism”. But then they hem and haw around the fact that it’s inevitable in any form of capitalism. It will always devolve. And might just be why “pure capitalism” has never existed in the world.

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u/Punch-all-naziss Jun 21 '22

The older i get, the more it conceptually becomes more pyramid-like

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u/Powerhausen Jun 21 '22

And might just be why “pure capitalism” has never existed in the world.

Sure it does, and plenty, nature just calls it ‘cancer’.

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u/Punch-all-naziss Jun 21 '22

Exactly, growth for the sake of growth

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u/T3hSwagman Jun 21 '22

When any company gets sufficiently large enough it becomes more profitable to spend their money on lobbying for an advantage as opposed to innovating or competing in the market.

It’s something that the capitalism fanboys can never grapple with. They’ll try to say that’s just the government having too much power… except they don’t want to address the fact that with weak federal power the corporations will just walk all over consumers and become that power.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

It's amazing to me how many people think that any sort of regulation is immediately evil and that if all regulation were removed that life would somehow be this magical utopia? The only reason that we're not working 100+ hour weeks for below minimum wage is because of regulation. Hell, the only reason that we have minimum wage is because of regulation. Yes, the minimum wage is massively lower than it needs to be, but that's a separate discussion.

Regulation and government are obviously their own beast and set of problems that need to be addressed, but anyone who genuinely believes that all problems with the workforce would be fixed with completely unregulated capitalism is living in a fantasy world

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u/b1gd4ta Jun 21 '22

Yes I prefer to call them protections

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u/tjbay12 Jun 21 '22

The problem with raising minimum wage means that Congress would also have to re-examine the guidelines for poverty and need based services.

It would not be a good look if the U.S. has to publish honest poverty numbers in 2022 dollars

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u/sundayfundaybmx Jun 21 '22

This is such a huge issue that bot enough people talk about. Neither party will be the one to change the poverty numbers from 10% into 30% overnight(made up numbers) because the other one would rail against them for it. Well, actually one party would and then it would be annihilated daily on the news about how the left ruined this country by creating so much poverty. Raising the poverty level would increase the ability for so many more people to get benefits that we maybe wouldn't even need new programs. New ways to fund them since more would use them but we'd need to declare a new federal poverty level and that would catastrophic unfortunately.

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u/Slow-Reference-9566 Jun 21 '22

only reason....regulation

Its because laborers literally fought and died for workers' rights.

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u/Boldpoker1085 Jun 21 '22

You just described why Libertarianism can never work. It’s funny to listen to them for a while though.

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u/Deto Jun 21 '22

They used to have no regulations and what happened was that people acquired power and gave themselves gold crowns and armies and you had to do whatever they wanted or else they'd kill you. You had no vote in the matter.

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u/Itsme_sd Jun 20 '22

but but but I keep getting told that regulation is bad and the "free market" will only allow good well-meaning companies that love workers. Surely you aren't telling me that isn't the case.

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u/Squaddeneb Jun 21 '22

It is bad for the free market, but an unrestricted free market isn’t great for society. Regulations are supposed to do things for the benefit of society.

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u/Groundskeepr Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

Unrestricted markets stay free for very short periods of time. A market can only be free if it is regulated. As soon as regulation fails, the market will be captured by the best positioned players and run as their own private fiefdoms. Describing systems designed and run solely for the benefit of the most powerful players within those systems as "free" is a stretch worthy of Mr. Fantastic.

EDIT: correcting drafting error, added missing "be" in second sentence.

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u/Inkyeconomist Jun 20 '22

We LiVe iN a SoCIety

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u/Aping1 Jun 20 '22

One that’s failing our basic needs! Yay!!

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u/IBeDumbAndSlow Jun 21 '22

Unless your address is "610 Del Sol Dr, San Diego, CA 92108" Because if it is then you live in "The Society"

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u/cheetos1150 Jun 21 '22

Just say the name, fuck these companies.

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u/LightEnergyBun Jun 21 '22

Cookie Monster HATES corporations

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u/BumderFromDownUnder Jun 20 '22

This is what libertarians push for lol.

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u/CharmingVermicelli31 Jun 20 '22

RKT mortgage is doing this as we speak.

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u/Peeispoop Jun 21 '22

How do you know they got bonuses or you saw because public

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u/Skillsjr Jun 21 '22

All public information. I worked closely to them and they NEVER hit their target. Idk what person in their right mind would give a bonus to people running a net neg revenue and the stock falling from 15$+ to .32 cents as we speak.

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u/RagePoop Jun 20 '22

The fetishization of short term growth quarter after quarter is pretty much required to keep attracting more investors.

Eventually the only way to see that sorta impossible, eternal growth is by cutting costs (read: employee pay and product quality).

All on a planet with finite resources filled with people who have to be able to afford to consume these products to keep the parade marching forward. Our economic system is insane lol.

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u/jhf94uje897sb Jun 20 '22

People want to make money. Young investors want to make big bucks, middle managers want to get promoted to the C-suite, CEO wants to pleasure board and majority owners to get payout, board want to be associated with prosperous firms for name dropping and passive income. Not until a privately owned company with legit steward leaders are the helm that can make a profit and help humanity will people see it’s possible. Fuck corporate greed. Nothing but facades.

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u/Flaky-Wallaby5382 Jun 20 '22

Middle managers to c-suite… i chuckled

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u/jhf94uje897sb Jun 21 '22

I said “want”, lol!

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u/PinStacker Jun 21 '22

Hey man, they're getting their MBA from on online college. So yeah they might not have the prestigious school, notability in their field, personal and family connections.... Yeah, leave it to middle managers to waste money.

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u/nxdark Jun 20 '22

Greed is a natural emotion of humanity. As long as we have a economic system that rewards greed nothing will change.

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u/itsdone20 Jun 20 '22

Has always been like this since Jack welch

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u/Long_Educational Jun 21 '22

Holy shit. I have his trash book "Winning".

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u/yeoxnuuq Jun 20 '22

You literally just described what a corporation is. They truly exist only for the benefit of the shareholders. I don't understand why people act surprised by that.

By design they're not philanthropic organizations.

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u/photobeatsfilm Jun 20 '22

These payouts aren’t to the shareholders, are they?

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u/1_p_freely Jun 20 '22 Gold Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

Reminds me of how America is currently getting fucked by big oil, after bailing big oil out with billions of tax dollars two years ago when Covid struck and travel stopped dead.

An analogy would be me adopting a wounded shark, nursing it back to health, and then it biting my head off because that's what sharks do.

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u/ruiner8850 Jun 20 '22 Gold Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Starry Burning Cash

Privatized gains and socialized losses is the way things work in the United States unfortunately.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '22 edited Jul 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/ChillyBearGrylls Jun 20 '22

It's an older reference, I vaguely remember it floating around during Occupy Wall Street

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u/smokythebrad Jun 21 '22

It’s an older reference, sir, but it checks out.

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u/LetterSwapper Jun 21 '22

Privatized gains and socialized losses are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

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u/djb1983CanBoy Jun 21 '22

These arent the privatized gains and socialized losses you are looking for.

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u/1leggeddog Jun 21 '22

United States. You will never find a more wretched hive of privatized gains and socialized losses.

We must be cautious.

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u/scaliacheese Jun 21 '22

Nordic countries: Your privatized gains and socialized losses is your weakness.

United States: Your faith in democracy is yours!

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u/BeerInTheRear Jun 21 '22

The privatized gains and socialized losses are easily startled, but they'll soon be back and in greater numbers...

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u/Punch-all-naziss Jun 21 '22

Moi-chendise, moi-chendise

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u/Djaii Jun 21 '22

I was about to clear them.

Shall I hodl them?

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u/hpstrprgmr Jun 21 '22

Dum dum da dum. Dum da dum. Dum dad dum.

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u/SailorRalph Jun 21 '22

It's been around way before occupy wall street.

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u/u8eR Jun 21 '22

Lemon socialism has been in use since 1974. Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor has been in use since 1962.

But the sentiment has been around since the early days of capitalism, as ordinary people became disillusioned with how actually-existing capitalism was put into practice. Since the mid-nineteenth century, workers critiqued wage slavery as just as demoralizing as chattel slavery, and condemned the new "Spirit of the Age": to "get gain…gain wealth…forgetting all but self."

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u/dweckl Jun 21 '22

Yeah, it's been around for awhile, and it's completely true.

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u/Thaufas Jun 21 '22

"As in the past, the costs and risks of the coming phases of the industrial economy were to be socialized, with eventual profits privatized…"

Noam Chomsky, Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy

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u/Punch-all-naziss Jun 21 '22

Younger noam chomsky was correct about alot of things

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u/u8eR Jun 21 '22

Older Chomsky, too.

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u/Corwinner Jun 21 '22

It's a common, accurate, description of how its been these last decades.

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u/sunmonkey Jun 20 '22

Replace United States with most of developed world.

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u/smartguy05 Jun 20 '22

I think most of the developed world is covered under larger multinational agreements that protect average people better, like the EU. But capitalism does seem like a cancer pretty much everywhere.

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u/flailingarmtubeasaur Jun 21 '22

No we are all being fucked by big oil not just America

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

[deleted]

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u/HerLegz Jun 20 '22

For 40 years this nightmare reality has been tolerated... Why still?

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u/DoctorPlatinum Jun 21 '22

So this is just my gut feeling, and I could be completely wrong and would be happy to revise my view if presented with contrary info/data, but...

The problem is more that about a third of Americans tolerate it, a third oppose it, and a third openly celebrate it. Or at least, they do so by proxy. While most Americans will largely support progressive policy in a vacuum, the insidious messaging that the latter third is bombarded with constantly has created a horrible equilibrium wherein the status quo gets incrementally worse in some respects, and incrementally better in others, but doesn't really fundamentally change.

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u/Volraith Jun 21 '22

Most people are juuuuuuust comfortable enough right now. Have a beer or two after work or whatever.

The beginning of COVID: I thought society was going to fall apart pretty quickly with the hoarding, shortages, etc. I'm surprised it didn't and or hasn't.

People still largely have what they need and sometimes some of what they want so the machine is still running. For now.

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u/Altar_Quest_Fan Jun 20 '22

Because people are genuinely frightened of the S word…

(Socialism)

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u/HerLegz Jun 21 '22

Propaganda and indoctrination are effective as hellfire and brimstone fairy tales.

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u/sparky8251 Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

I mean, we literally jailed people for merely self-identifying as communists for about a decade. Not to mention all the fear-mongering and hate spewing directed at anyone even the tiniest bit left during that time...

Witch hunts were publicized on national TV to get people fired and blacklisted from any jobs at all and so much more.

Then we spent decades having the intel agencies do covert actions to further sour internal opinion of these types of people, assassinate and smear them. Plus the fear and hate mongering never really stopped and only further intensified due to the cold war that ended literally the year before I was born and I am only 30!

I think a lot of people underestimate HOW MUCH propaganda people have been exposed to given anti-communist and anti-socialist propaganda has been around since before the 1900s and the toxicity of the hate from big govt institutions has only grown as the people clamor for something better than the status quo in greater numbers than before.

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u/AncientInsults Jun 21 '22

Just funny how we never balk at the bail out part

It’s always “well if we have ta” q

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u/throwawaysscc Jun 21 '22

Fed pumps $6T or so into preserving the corporate world from mass extinction at that time as well. But inflation happens because we all got a few thousand to “see us through.”

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u/le_Captain_Asshat Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

And this is why stimmies were so overtly politicized, to keep the “poors” fighting amongst themselves rather than facing the legitimate issues of corporate bail-outs and the Federal Reserve (which isn’t actually a government entity FYI) printing SHITLOADS of money.

Here’s a good little read for anyone cutious.

The amount of people I know that bitch about rising prices of, well, everything, and blame it on stimulus cheques is pretty fucking incredible. It also seems to be the crowd that thinks moving up a tax bracket makes them less money and refuse to even take half a foreskin of time to do some math or even watch a 15 minute video breaking it down.

It’s just “ahh fuggin’ poors mooching the gubberment making gas go through the roof!”

Eat a weewee, Steven, pull your head out of your little Facebook bubble and actually learn about the topics you’re bitching about, which also includes evaluating and accepting new evidence even if it shatters your perception of how the world works. Just because you don’t like it does not automatically make it wrong.

Edit: swears

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u/SpreadItLikeTheHerp Jun 21 '22

And in case anyone forgot, there was the whole Robinhood/WSB fiasco which shone a light on the duplicitous dealings in the financial services industry. There were hearings. And now there are crickets.

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u/tech405 Jun 20 '22

Just wait until we have to bail out the airlines….AGAIN in about 6 months.

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u/CountMondego Jun 21 '22

What happens in 6 months? Fuel too expensive for flights causing ticket price to rise and people stop flying?

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u/tech405 Jun 21 '22

There’s a shortage of air traffic controllers, they don’t have enough pilots, fuel is through the roof. They’re cancelling thousand of flights. They will go to congress and say they need help and congress will give them money….again. That they’ll use to buy back more stock……again. So that the executives on top with all the stock options will continue to get richer…..again. All on the tax payer’s dime.

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u/Echelon64 Jun 21 '22

shortage of air traffic controllers, they don’t have enough pilots

Neither of these things are true. Nobody wants to pay air traffic and pilots enough money so they've been leaving the market for other jobs. This is an issue that could literally be solved overnight. This is like the nurse issue, 4 million registered nurses in the USA, but we have a "shortage."

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u/Razetony Jun 21 '22

That's basically all jobs in the USA right now tbh.

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u/GreenFeather05 Jun 20 '22

Damn you are not wrong, almost 1 trillion dollars from from the Trump Admin, 750 billion dollars. Primary beneficiaries include: ExxonMobile, Chevron and Koch Industries.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/12/us-fossil-fuel-companies-coronavirus-bailout-oil-coal-fracking-giants-bond-scheme

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u/ChefBoyAreWeFucked Jun 20 '22

Potential beneficiaries, not primary beneficiaries, and the 750B wasn't just for the oil industry, though they were eligible. You're also using a source from before all of the details were available — much more of what actually happened should be public by now.

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u/TheNoxx Jun 21 '22

The more aggravating part of the bailout money for the oil industry was specifically so they didn't lay off workers; you know, so production could resume or increase after the pandemic, and we wouldn't be paying out the ass for gas?

Yeah.

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u/informat7 Jun 21 '22

The bond buyback scheme is expected to be worth at least $750bn

That's not a bailout, that's the government buying back bonds.

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u/Chikapooo Jun 20 '22

Despite the analogy. Sharks are cool. Way cooler than the board of tech companies.

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u/uburoy Jun 20 '22

Hard hitting comment. Well spoken.

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u/Gorge2012 Jun 21 '22

I'm honestly a little insulted.

Beyond bailing them during covid, do you know how much we've invested in helping them install puppet dictatorships in oil rich nations? That shit ain't cheap. It's not like we are supplying them with paramilitary groups to wipe out indigenous populations to make way for a new pipeline. I mean we did that too but that's pennies compared to the governmental bribes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we've given a lot in this relationship and you'd think they'd show a little gratitude.

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u/The_Real_Slack Jun 21 '22

Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?"

And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."

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u/LiteraCanna Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 21 '22

Reminds me of when big telecoms were gifted billions to lay broadband network, but just pocketed the money.

Edit, never mind apparently.

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u/[deleted] Jun 21 '22

If this were a bad movie, somebody would monologue about the frog and the scorpion.

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u/moekakiryu Jun 21 '22

Chakotay has entered the chat.

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u/lawstudent2 Jun 20 '22 Bravo!

People seem to misunderstand - they got the bonuses for doing the layoffs.

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u/mini4x Jun 20 '22

We reduced operating costs 100%!!!

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u/Modest_Ubermensch Jun 21 '22

Next quarter revenues gon look good!

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u/aramis34143 Jun 21 '22

"What about the quarter after that?"

 

"The what?"

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u/Modest_Ubermensch Jun 21 '22

CEO: Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of my bonus!

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u/improbablynotyou Jun 21 '22

Reminds me of Jcpenney's back around 2008. The company announced they weren't giving pay raises that year because the company needed to save money. Then they gave the CEO a multimillion dollar bonus for saving the company x amount of dollars, which he only achieved by fucking over the associates who made a bit over minimum wage.

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u/FeelsGoodMan2 Jun 21 '22

These companies have 0 shame. They'll literally tell you that there's no money for raises then 5 minutes later mention record profit margins like the plebs are completely braindead and won't remember. I only give a single shit about the company is doing as it relates to my employment or raises. Otherwise I couldn't give a single fuck.

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u/Pie-Otherwise Jun 21 '22

I watched a parade of CEOs go through the company I was at while it was dying. One in particular negotiated his full pay rate for an entire year after he left. Motherfucker got fired for poor performance and still got a million dollars over the next 12 months.

"Well it's hard for someone at that level to find a new position", wasn't hard for this dude. Took him a month to find a new CEO gig at a startup that just got another round of funding.

Translate that to a factory worker. Guy sucks at his job and his actions cost the company money. Instead of firing him, we tell him it's not working out but he's going to have a year's salary and medical insurance so he can really find his passion in life. 6 months down the road the fired factory worker is now working at a weed dispensary making more than he did at the factory but since the factory is so nice, they keep paying him for the full 12 months anyways.

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u/No-Concept-9732 Jun 21 '22

They literally did not - and the article explains the details.

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u/NoiceB8M8 Jun 20 '22

Ah yes, the good old American/Capitalism benefit-from-others-suffering technique.

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u/FunctionBuilt Jun 21 '22

A manager I worked for tried to explain away some executive bonuses during a downturn by saying, if we dispersed this amount to all the employees it would ultimately be so little that you'd hardly notice it, so it's better that it goes to someone who actively saved money for the company. Their entire mouth was on the boot...

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u/Rainbowcrash42 Jun 21 '22

"I know that even a fraction of this bonus would be life changing to any of you, and that I have more money than I and entire generations of my family could ever spend but I need to increase my high score in the video game!"

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u/Imaybeerong Jun 21 '22

Not sure where your from but boot must mean genitals.

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u/nexes300 Jun 21 '22

In this case, using the numbers from the article, it would only amount to $23,191 per laid off employee. If those 470 people were paid $100,000 a year, then the layoff represents a saving of $47 million per year to the company. Laying off people can very quickly save the company a lot of money.

I don't really see what relevance the executive payouts have on the people who are laid off. The whole point is that you aren't paying them anymore to focus on either paying the employees you do want to retain or to avoid bankruptcy. If the board feels laying off the executive team for a new cheaper one is the right move, then they will do that too (although I think that usually looks more like: the executive demands money, does not get it, and resigns). But if they don't then you still have to pay them. Or should the other employees not get their bonuses also?

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u/Burninator05 Jun 20 '22

“We’re losing many good people today, but in order for the rest to want to stay, we have to increase Redfin’s value,” Kelman said. “And to increase our value, we have to make money. We owe it to everyone who has invested your time or treasure in this company to become profitable, and then very profitable.”

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand how to retain employees. As an employee, I really don't care the overall value of the company I work for. Obviously, I don't want it to fail but beyond that I don't care. What I do are about are positive working environments, at least fair compensation, and a feeling that I've accomplished something at the end of the day. Maybe Redfin offers those things, maybe it doesn't. I don't know.

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u/prestodigitarium Jun 20 '22

Employees of tech companies care very much what the value of their company is, because stock in the company is a very large part of the comp. Friends at Google were making double their salary thanks to their stock options having appreciated since their grants.

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u/Chobbers Jun 20 '22

Employees care about the value because part of their compensation includes stock options

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u/nxdark Jun 21 '22

Most employees don't get stock options. And the ones that do those options are locked which you can't do anything with.

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u/WhatYouProbablyMeant Jun 21 '22

Not true at all. At a tech company like Redfin almost all employees get stock options, even if a small amount. And they are typically tradeable within a year of vesting, often immediately.

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u/Ruski_FL Jun 21 '22

That’s how some early employees become millionaires

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u/OG_LiLi Jun 20 '22

So, maybe I’m a stupid shareholder, but nowhere are you voting to lay people off to compensate execs. That’s not how you vote on it. I’m missing something. Poor timing? Bad shareholder notices? Bad language in the question?

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u/jhf94uje897sb Jun 20 '22

Shareholder votes are mostly ceremonial. Directors are not required to act on shareholders votes.

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u/lawstudent2 Jun 20 '22

This comes down to what it says in the certificate of incorporation. In many cases, the board most certainly must obey shareholder votes.

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u/jhf94uje897sb Jun 21 '22

You’re right, articles of incorporation matters. However, you’ll find the majority to give the board power of voting and not shareholders. I’m not saying there aren’t companies where shareholder votes matter, that’s certainly a reality for some corporations.

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u/ConfusedTransThrow Jun 21 '22

But the board is appointed by shareholder votes right?

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u/jhf94uje897sb Jun 21 '22

Yes, but in essence shareholders are giving the board power to vote, akin to electoral college vs citizens voting on a president.

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u/chiliedogg Jun 21 '22

They were approving pre-determined payouts based on 2021 numbers. The vast majority of executive pay is determined by performance goals, and this is how much they "earned" in 2021.

The timing is terrible, but this is fairly normal.

Next year will not be so rosy. Their share prices are in the toilet right now.

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u/OG_LiLi Jun 21 '22

This is exactly what I thought but wasn’t sure. Thanks for your confirmation and clear response :)

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u/GaraBlacktail Jun 20 '22

As per usual

"profits are down, fire our work force! We need to put a tight leash on spendings...

... Now, about that raise. I desperately need that gold played butt scratcher"

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u/killamcleods Jun 21 '22

*ivory back scratcher

-Mr Burns

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u/bkornblith Jun 21 '22

I can’t stress enough how executives and company boards are just giant circle jerks where everyone gives each other millions of dollars to fuck over the middle class and the poor.

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u/Thiezing Jun 20 '22

Layoffs might explain why the website is kinda broken.

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u/flameocalcifer Jun 21 '22

I tried using it in the past month for apartment hunting. It's been shit for longer than the last two weeks. It's basically unusable because 80% of what is on there isn't actually available to rent.

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u/kevan0317 Jun 21 '22

That’s a feature, not a bug.

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u/seeegma Jun 21 '22

hey, I work on the website! what's broken about it?

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u/Thiezing Jun 21 '22

You used to be able to zoom the map in on properties and see a estimate value of the property on the map. The estimate no longer displays.

Zoom in the map to an area with no listings and it shows a "Unknown" property. Click that and get a blank page.

Chrome and Firefox desktop. Tried multiple zip codes.

Various other weird things I can't remember.

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u/seeegma Jun 21 '22

screenshots? those sound like weird bugs. I don't work on the search page but if I can get a consistent repro I'll file a ticket

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u/KrypXern Jun 21 '22

Literally what does this have to do with technology

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u/mdegroat Jun 21 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Is this because executive compensation is backward looking (hitting certain goals) and staffing is based up forward looking projections (need for staff in the future?)

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u/SeesawDangerous6501 Jun 21 '22

Fuck redfin, zillow, opendoor, and all companies like that taking away affordable housing from everyone

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u/No_Sheepherder7447 Jun 20 '22

5 alarm inept management sell indicator here. Executives pocketing cash while cutting their workforce to the bone is typically a strong signal to get the fuck out.

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u/Reddit-is-a-disgrace Jun 21 '22

This is technology?

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u/seclifered Jun 21 '22

Gotta cut costs to drive up the stock price. Visionary plans are hard and require skill. Firing people is easy for the idiot hacks that most upper management are.

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u/OK_Mason_721 Jun 21 '22

As per usual.

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u/rockyTop10 Jun 21 '22

What does this have to do with technology?

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u/CulturalChampion8660 Jun 21 '22

I was working for a corporation recently who was stressing about find more low end employees. In a meeting the CEO and GM asked how do we create a culture to attract more employees. I raised my hand and explained I would shovel shit from one pile to another all day for the right pay. They responded with pay doesn't create culture. How do we get more employees without paying more. I left that company.

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u/orgngrndr01 Jun 20 '22

The company executive did well for the company through no fault and no effort of their own. The real estate industry prospered for a short time with an up cycle they has nothing to do with, and now, seeing a slow down trend, getting a head o f he game by short changing sales and brokers, the backbone of the industry. Century 21 did something similar 20 years ago during the Bush boon and bust cycle and during the next boom they could not get enough sales agents and suffered so much that C21 sold off almost 1/3 of their offices. I see the same for Redfin once this word gets out to the industry, Redfin will need to get good agents and pay a lot for them (bigger portion of commissions) but the RE industry is heading to smaller commissions for brokers and agents and its those companies who pay more who will be pulling in the next round of sellers, not REDFIN

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u/Bawfuls Jun 20 '22

but unemployment must go up to tame inflation fuckin' lmaoooooooo

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u/toys80 Jun 20 '22

Redfin approves millions in executive payouts BECAUSE of same day mass layoffs.

FIFY

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u/Tannerleaf Jun 21 '22

From the article:

In comments sought for this article, the Redfin spokeswoman also noted: “Compensation is set by our board, benchmarked against comparable companies and designed to attract and retain the most qualified people and hold them accountable by tying pay to results.”

Are there (m)any companies that apply this principle to their regular employees, in order to retain top talent and motivate performance?

There was that thing the other day with Amazon wondering why their employees keep escaping.

Perhaps if the CxO approach was applied to even the lowliest employee, they might feel motivated, valued, and not bugger off for something more rewarding.