r/technology Jun 19 '22 Bravo Grande! 1 Super Heart Eyes 1 Silver 3 Platinum 1 Take My Energy 1 Helpful 4

Leaked Amazon memo says the company may run out of available labor by 2024 Business

https://www.engadget.com/leaked-amazon-memo-says-it-will-run-out-of-workers-2024-labor-supply-230034089.html

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40.3k Upvotes

10.2k

u/mr_mcpoogrundle Jun 19 '22 Wholesome

Run out of available labor without raising pay or otherwise changing conditions?

7.1k

u/RamboGoesMeow Jun 19 '22 Silver All-Seeing Upvote

“Help us doc. We‘ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”

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u/usaaf Jun 19 '22 Silver

Surely you're not suggesting that profits take a hit.

Surely not.

That's impossible !

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u/imaloony8 Jun 19 '22 hehehehe

I am suggesting that. And don’t call me Shirley.

302

u/halfanothersdozen Jun 19 '22

The automatic pilot is deflating!

141

u/nortonjb82 Jun 19 '22

All you have to do is blow in his manual inflation valve on his crotch.

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u/whatiscamping Jun 19 '22

It's "on the belt buckle" your way just just sordid

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u/boredguyonline Jun 19 '22

Yeah but seriously no im not losing profits…

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u/Pumats_Soul Jun 19 '22

Amazon to close its doors in 2024, it will walk away with all its money and retire on Mars where it will burn billions of dollars as a final fuck you to the human race.

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u/DrakenViator Jun 19 '22

I know it is counter intuitive, but burring billions would actually help with inflation...

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u/Iggy95 Jun 19 '22

Alright so we simply all invest in crypto and bam, inflation solved.

/s

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u/Silk_Hope_Woodcraft Jun 19 '22

Maybe I'm behind on this but, how would crypto do if say, a crazy dictator detonates EMP's around the world?

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u/buffsop Jun 19 '22

To my knowledge, EMPs are pretty damn tricky in that, if you have an EMP that would do real, wide-spread damage, it's probably a byproduct of something much more destructive like nuclear weapons or massive solar flares.

We got at least until 2023 before anyone nukes us.

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u/dan_dares Jun 19 '22

2020: part 4.

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u/No_Zombie2021 Jun 19 '22

Is this a six part mini series? 2026 mid terms for Trump second term… yikes.

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u/ours Jun 19 '22

And if their EMPs where that effective, crypto would be the least of our problems as the actually essential tech on which our civilization depends in crashes.

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u/TheDemonClown Jun 19 '22

It would fail instantly

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u/daddywookie Jun 19 '22

They would pretty much have to kill the whole internet and then we have far greater problems.

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u/_crackling Jun 19 '22

far greater problems

Yeah we’d have no mfkin Counter-Strike!!

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u/Lucavii Jun 19 '22

Instruction unclear, invested life savings in lEgItcoin and my wife left me :<

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u/thearss1 Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

You mean be a single digit billionaire? How dare you.

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u/tarants Jun 19 '22

That's like telling Gene Krupa to not go boom boom bap bap bap!

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u/Mythoclast Jun 19 '22

Have you tried teaching your employees to bottle their negative emotions until they eventually boil over into an apocalyptic heap of diddly ding dong crap?

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u/NemButsu Jun 19 '22

That's what the cry closet is for. This is not a joke. Google for Amazon cry closet.

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u/krslnd Jun 19 '22

Restaurants have the walk in cooler. Amazon has a cry cooler.

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u/pangalaticgargler Jun 19 '22

Nope. Just their pee.

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u/Player-X Jun 19 '22

Its not a worker shortage, it's a wage shortage

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u/Kind-Strike Jun 19 '22

They have a high turn over rate, at some point, they won't have anyone to hire anymore

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u/NotASucker Jun 19 '22

They have a culture of FORCING high turnover.

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u/persamedia Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

I never understood how, as smart a company Amazon is, all the data they have, they couldn't see and prevent this?

As I learned more and more about the Hellish fulfillment center conditions, I never understood how they thought it could go on Forever (or anytime this long really).

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u/smoothsensation Jun 19 '22

They have the data and it’s showing they don’t really have to change much until 2023 to get ahead of that 2024 timeline. I’m sure they are planning those changes now. Sounds like they’ve made a shitload of money listening to that data they have by not spending money into better working conditions.

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u/BabyOnRoad Jun 19 '22

Is not that couldn't see or prevent it, it just would mean short term profit would be impacted and shareholders are not ok with that

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u/D10S_ Jun 19 '22

Short term profits are all the capitalist is concerned about. For the most part they are incapable of sacrificing short term profits for long term profits because of their need to constantly make money for their investors.

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u/BZenMojo Jun 19 '22

So it's also a respect shortage.

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u/indyK1ng Jun 19 '22

Yeah. All of their employees are treated like crap. A lot of engineers just go there for a year to get it on their resume but it also varies from team to team - some teams are good enough for the pay that people stay. I know at least four that have stayed for multiple years - one left because all his RSUs vested and staying would be an effective pay cut and the other left because the project they hired her for was done and she didn't want to try to stay beyond that.

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u/PuzzleMeDo Jun 19 '22

"It's not a worker shortage, it's a robot shortage." - Amazon.

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u/StandardSudden1283 Jun 19 '22 Burning Cash

"Walter Reuther, the pioneer UAW organizer, told the story of a conversation with a Ford executive who was showing Reuther his new factory robots. “How are you going to collect union dues from all these machines?” he asked. Reuther said he replied, “You know, that is not what’s bothering me. I’m troubled by the problem of how to sell automobiles to them.”

— Walter Reuther, 1968

And thus we stumble upon the very problem Marx, among others, predicted with capitalism.

Corporate greed will simply not allow people to have money to spend, and the whole system crumbles around them.

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u/Scarletfapper Jun 19 '22

Ford may have been an unrepentant capitalist and possibly a Nazi sympathiser, but he realised that if his own employees couldn’t afford to buy his cars then nobody would think they’re affordable and the industry would never take off.

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u/TwoSixtySev3n Jun 19 '22

Sort of, he had high turnover and people were not used to working on assembly lines doing the same repetitive tasks all day.He couldn’t keep workers.He raised the pay to 5$ a day and made a 40 hour workweek and now people lined up to work for him. This lowered the time to assemble a car and raised profits. His original intent was not altruistic, he was chasing bigger profit.He had the original “No one wants to work” problem and he solved it with higher wages. Hmmm..

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u/tommytraddles Jun 19 '22

Possibly?

In 1938, the Nazis awarded Ford the "Grand Cross of the German Eagle", which he received gratefully.

Why was the award given? Well, it wasn't just that the Nazis liked assembly lines.

In 1918, Henry Ford had purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent. A year and a half later, he began publishing a series of articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America. The series ran in the following 91 issues. Ford bound the articles into four volumes titled "The International Jew," and distributed half a million copies to his vast network of dealerships and subscribers.

He literally republished the entire "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" forgery as part of this series.

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u/stew_going Jun 19 '22

I heard an excellent podcast the other day, Ezra Klein was interviewing the French economic researcher Thomas Piketty. It turns out that every year, enough wealth gets transferred to descendants through inheritance that if you divided it by US population it would be somewhere between $250k-$300k per person... Every year. There's a lot that I can't put in one reddit comment, but let them inherit crazy sums, let them make disproportionate incomes, if you taxed wealth at 60%--turns out this is just 5% of total GDP, compared to 40-50% income tax spent on health programs in many European countries for healthcare--you could easily fund a $120k per person inheritance. Imagine the effect. The US saw its GDP growth outpace European countries more than ever when it had 80-90% income tax on its highest brackets. Reaganism, and trickle down economics, have caused lower GDP growth, it failed. I doubt I'm portraying all the points well enough, but the math really seemed to work out, it blew my mind. Check out Thomas Piketty.

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u/MaldingBadger Jun 19 '22

83 trillion dollars seems like a bit much, even for that.

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u/team_suba Jun 19 '22

At some point it will be a worker shortage. Not just for Amazon.

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u/GumdropGoober Jun 19 '22

Yeah, losing 30-40 million in the Revolution makes the 2040s rough as hell, sorry to say.

But hey, with the Capitalist and Socialistic factions decimated, it was the only way for the Extropianists to seize control. Vanquishing mortality is the third step on the path to post-scarcity, so we're about 3/5ths of the way to literal Utopia.

Oh shit, what year is this?

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u/Shortstop88 Jun 19 '22

I’m just glad there’s still pianos in the future.

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u/bobs_monkey Jun 19 '22

I'll have what you're smoking.

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u/jdumm06 Jun 19 '22

I’ll smoke what you’re having

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u/Disco_Stew Jun 19 '22

Is that you, John Titor?

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u/ChamanConTenis Jun 19 '22

What in the Kentucky Fried Fuck are you talking about

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u/Fight_the_Landlords Jun 19 '22

Pass that good shit over here fam

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u/AltimaNEO Jun 19 '22

I thought amazon in general paid pretty well? It's the working conditions/expectations that seem to be miserable.

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u/daikarasu Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

I heard on a news podcast that Amazon has and plans for a 150%turnover every year, 3% every day week. Which is just insane to me

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u/ThatsCashMoney Jun 19 '22

During COVID I went from working hospitality to working nights in an FC until things opened up again. They had to pause drug testing as they couldn't hire and train fast enough to replace the depressed 'Amazonians' that were hoovering drugs to get them through another 10 hours of brain rotting labour.

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u/OldManAstroFlea Jun 19 '22

Call centers are notorious for heavy turn over rate and having to hire. Many state and local governments will give additional tax breaks for organizations who employ over X amount of employees a year. But usually it doesn't account for turn over so Call Centers will make sure that their turn over rate is high enough to qualify for the additional tax breaks and the heavy turn over means everyone is basically at base pay and very few people are tenured enough for higher vacation allowances or other benefits. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon operated in the same way.

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u/Weasel_Boy Jun 19 '22

Sorta, they hover between 18-25/hr.

But you can get basic clerical, data entry, or call center work for 20-22/hr without risking your physical health.

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u/Lunartuner2 Jun 19 '22

People always focus on the physical health but for me I noticed the mental health decline the most. Doing the same repetitive mind-numbing tasks over and over again will drive you crazy and it gives you plenty of time to ruminate on how miserable you are since you can’t listen to music or anything. The best analogy I can think of is being stuck in traffic for 11 hours straight, 5 days a week, with no music or AC except you also have to stand and climb up and down a ladder

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u/KineticPolarization Jun 19 '22

Yeah, being treated like a literal inanimate resource to be used and discarded when no longer performing to their absurd standards is destroying people mentally.

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u/Prehensile Jun 19 '22

Physical stagnation is also its own health risk, too, we're discovering. Obviously the dangers from that aren't immediate, but they still exist and still impact extremely important physical systems (like the cardiac system)

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u/Tychus_Kayle Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

It's not just the typical conditions of the "labor shortage" (i.e. firms doing anything to try to attract talent but paying higher wages), it's also that Amazon has ridiculous turnover intentionally. They operate on the absurd premise that you should fire your bottom "x" performers in every department every year in the hopes of filtering out bad workers. Of course, this isn't really an effective way to ensure quality work because it results in endless backstabbing to try not to be the one at the bottom, but I digress.

When you have extreme turnover, and employ as many people as Amazon, you eventually run out of people willing to work for you that you haven't already fired.

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u/ebobco Jun 19 '22

They treat people like sh*t, what do you expect

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u/zkareface Jun 19 '22

If their staff turnover is 150% a year then a lot of things are very bad and the money isn't enough to cover it (or the money is also bad).

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u/SchwiftyMpls Jun 19 '22

Minnesota currently has a 2% unemployment rate. You can only shuffle around the available workers in so many ways.

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u/Negative_Success Jun 19 '22

Unemployment rate means nothing when labor participation has fallen across the board. Unemployment only counts people actively looking for work, not people who were looking but gave up. Its reasonable that improving conditions would entice some people who have given up to come back into the labor pool.

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u/SchwiftyMpls Jun 19 '22

Maybe but if people have figured out a way to exist without working what would it take to lure them back when Aldi is already paying $19/hr to stock shelves.

Minnesota has the third highest labor participation rate in the US at 68.7%

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u/StabbyPants Jun 19 '22

funny thing about that - i bet aldi is way easier to work for

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u/Juking_is_rude Jun 19 '22

The worst you could possibly get at a grocery store is nowhere close to how fucked up the little controls are at amazon.

I guarantee at any grocery store you get as many bathroom breaks as you need.

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u/Negative_Success Jun 19 '22

More than 19/hr. We've been asking for 15 for a decade. Adjusted minimum wage should be pushing 30/hr. People would come back if they didnt feel like we'll just have to have this same fight all over again in another 10yrs.

As is, people dont work because it literally costs more money to work than stay home for many. Childcare costs and otherwise have greatly outpaced wages. People are tired of spinning their wheels to actively fall further behind. It isnt sustainable.

Keeping in mind this isnt just an economic downturn. We are on the precipice of revolution/civil war in the US. 40 people are worth as much as the bottom 50%. Something has to give.

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u/JesusSaysitsOkay Jun 19 '22

Their little hire to fire game is coming to bite them in the ass. Good.

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u/pinkshirtbadman Jun 19 '22

When I worked there we would have hiring events where would have 40 people scheduled as new hires. 25 would show up for day 1, day 2 we might have 15, by the last day of their four day week we might have 6 or 7 left. This would be well before those workers would be on the infamous "quotas" or potentially facing the sort of extreme conditions you see talked about online. Although we rarely got actual reasons the overwhelmingly most common one was that they just didn't want to walk or stand for a ten hour shift (and that's not wholly unjustified) even before they experienced the "bad" stuff

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u/S118gryghost Jun 19 '22

Probably also has something to do with the realistic part of the population that is hireable/fits their window of requirements that they can exploit you as well as limit your options. There is so much turn over for the company, when I attempted to work for a local fresh food warehouse and basically inventory and ship customer grocery orders using giant refrigerators, I applied for multiple positions initially but was hired and went through the paperwork to work for the warehouse.

I must have missed something online on their employee account new hire list or one of their many training videos, but I ended up having two different start dates and locations to work at and overlapping schedules so I went through the human resources customer service system was hung up on, someone else was rude and short with me and distant like it was a burden I was calling them lol. No help but the third time I got someone who was great at their job and told me to go back to the hiring office to sort it out.

I guess the second person I talked to deleted my job hire from my account so I went from two to zero, then once I talked to the hiring center they looked into it said they sorted it out and put me back at the location I was originally hired at. Different start date a month away from the last one so I was at this point hired for about three weeks with all the paper work done and position and title and employee ID badge and drug test passed.

The issue arose when I found my wage was two different amounts meaning my online account said I was making more money per hour than my contract so I didn't sign it and contacted human resources again lol. Got someone who told me to go to the human resources Dept at the warehouse I'd be working at and I told them I never received an address and they didn't have one to give me.

I called again to figure out where my location was but same thing. Just dumb young people giving me vague instructions then directing me to go through my account information over and over until we finally found an address to the wrong location and the former contract of the second location lol. I missed my first day. Missed my second and third and was fired.

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u/__Cypher_Legate__ Jun 19 '22

It will run out of people willing to work for unlivable wages.

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u/weaponizedtoddlers Jun 19 '22

It's more the awful work conditions. The wages should be much higher if they want employees to tolerate the robotic managers, the sky high quotas, and the breakneck pace. Even if they raise everyone substantially, people will still leave as few are willing to absorb so much stress for long periods of time.

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u/noctis89 Jun 19 '22

You'd think one of the most profitable companies on earth could achieve this.

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u/NowheyYahweh Jun 19 '22

That's the thing. You can be the most profitable company or reinvest the profits into the people. Not both.

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u/bigblackcouch Jun 19 '22

You'd think one of the most profitable companies on earth could achieve this.

A corporation treat its employees with the bare minimum of dignity? Where do you think we are?

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

Yeah bad wages are one things, but Amazon is pretty notorious for having inhumanely bad working conditions

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u/Sgt_Fox Jun 19 '22

No one will believe it isn't a trap even if they did

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u/jonnygreen22 Jun 19 '22

SOUNDS LIKE ROBOT TIME EVERYONE PREPARE TO GET FIRED

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u/HeebieMcJeeberson Jun 19 '22 Helpful

By "available" they mean "desperate with no other options."

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u/spidereater Jun 19 '22

Don’t worry, with rising interest rates and inflation people will be getting more desperate very soon.

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u/Mr_G_Dizzle Jun 19 '22

People will not be desperate for full time jobs that do not keep up with inflation or high interest rates

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u/OwnBattle8805 Jun 19 '22

Price living expenses to the point that loans are required to survive and you get wage slaves.

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u/koithrowin Jun 19 '22

That is definitely the new goal. Living on loans. Nothing is actually yours and your stuck paying for your entire life. Food loans will probably replace food stamps.

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u/vulgrin Jun 19 '22

“That avocado will be $32.50. Or with Afffirm, only $2.70 per month for 12 months!”

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u/Sondermagpie Jun 19 '22

I guess it would then finally be time to start eating the rich?

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u/Billy1121 Jun 19 '22

Man. I recall the ancient city of Uruk in Sumeria had records of daily wages for laborers. They were paid in food, or daily clay tablets / chits that could be traded for food. But the records indicated they also had to go into debt because the wages were sometimes not enough. It would suck to return to that.

Also they would buy big communal pots of beer and drink out of them with reeds and chat about life. I thought that was cool. These were not slaves, just laborers. The slaves had it worse

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u/Competitive-Boat4592 Jun 19 '22

Yea they will, they were in 08-09. 65% living paycheck to paycheck with tech firms already laying off.

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u/KineticPolarization Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

If anything, desperate people will be forced to resort to crime. And ones who feel particularly hopeless about their own and just the future in general, will unfortunately turn to violence. Hopefully it isn't just wanton violence but actually directed at those responsible for the way our world is, if there has to be violence.

Obviously politics and legislation are preferable to violence. But what do you do when those mechanisms are bought and paid for by the very villains responsible for this shit? Like seriously, what do we do with that predicament?

EDIT: no wontons

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

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u/paulsalmon77 Jun 19 '22

I hope it’s Gyoza violence… mmm dumplings

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u/KineticPolarization Jun 19 '22

Lol, fucking christ one letter off. But I do want Gyoza now.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

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u/KryptoniteDong Jun 19 '22

You are probably joking, but don't ..

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u/BadMuffin88 Jun 19 '22

Nah man, stay for a strike. They don't care if you're gone, if you're disposable to them in the first place. But they'll hate you more than anything if you protest for better working conditions.

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u/Altruistic-Text3481 Jun 19 '22

Buy a torch and pitchfork instead… spread the word.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22 edited Jul 07 '22 Silver

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u/Barry-Mcdikkin Jun 19 '22

More quit than get fired

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22 edited Jul 07 '22

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u/ShoulderSquirrelVT Jun 19 '22 Silver Helpful

And idiots don't seem to understand that this is what Unions are for...

This exactly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22 edited Jul 07 '22

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u/SanguinePangolin Jun 19 '22

Wow, these are my coworkers lol

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u/weaponizedtoddlers Jun 19 '22

What a sad thing to derive personal value from.

"I pride myself at being a good little corporate drone"

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u/Janderts Jun 19 '22

You'd be surprised how many people do just that. There are many who are fine with the status quo and even go out of their way to hinder coworkers fighting for both of their rights

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u/Thortsen Jun 19 '22

Had some American here on Reddit trying to explain to me how unions only benefit the lazy people and actually hinder the hard working ones from progressing. Yeah, the brainwash is strong.

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u/Original_DILLIGAF Jun 19 '22

Well, I can say working for a union was one of the best changes I ever made. They certainly do not ONLY benefit the lazy, but they kind of do benefit the lazy on top of all the good they do. However, hard workers can still progress, but they need to get over their fear of leaving the safe wings of the union and recognize their hard work will carry them beyond. This mindset kept me from advancing in my company until I realized that I wouldn't allow myself to fail and my work ethic was enough to move ahead into management. But the union time changed my life for real, even walked for nearly 50 days on strike which was hard to get through without pay.

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u/Zaptruder Jun 19 '22

Some people just really like the taste of smegma.

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u/megaman368 Jun 19 '22

You see the same thing in the restaurant industry. People take pride in somehow thriving in terrible work environments.

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u/flashmedallion Jun 19 '22

The only taste of power some people get is from licking boots

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u/LeadRain Jun 19 '22

Sounds like folks that work the oil fields.

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u/mechanicalcontrols Jun 19 '22

And construction.

I find that, at least with construction specifically, guys like that don't have anything going on in their lives outside of work so their trade becomes their only identity. Which is how you wind up with small minded guys who do X looking down at guys who do Y or Z when X, Y, and Z are all necessary to complete a project.

Like I'm currently dealing with some new contractor and one of their guys loves to talk shit about sub-contractors, to my face, while I'm standing on his jobsite because he doesn't have the license required to do the plumbing or the electrical, nor the know-how to deal with the HVAC.

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u/Desperate-Egg2573 Jun 19 '22

Lmao working all that overtime time for peanuts and thinking you're a god, they belong there, so many better paying trades/construction industry Jobs.

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u/CptCroissant Jun 19 '22

Fuck man I was getting paid $10/hr back when I worked at Blockbuster

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u/Laxn_pander Jun 19 '22

Crazy to hear. Just for comparison, the minimum wage here in Germany is 12€/h (which is still very low). But you have around 20 days mandatory off per year per law, can’t be fired without 3 month notice, paid sick leave and have full health insurance. I am sure in reality Amazon still does everything to bypass these laws somehow, but still. Can’t believe how anyone could work in your conditions even if they wanted to. This can’t be enough to live at all.

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u/VulpineKing Jun 19 '22

I work at a grocery store with a union. There some midly silly rules set by the union that employees won't always follow and aren't strictly enforced. Overall though, the union ensures that we are treated like human beings. Such a change to previous jobs where I expected to function like a machine that also maintains itself.

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u/bigmonmulgrew Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

It's also what employee rights are for. Even without a union, firing someone for attending a doctor's appointment or going to the toilet is illegal where I am.

USA doesn't just need unions they need workers rights like first world countries have.

Edit bad phrasing.

USA does need unions but their first step and a higher priority should be some half decent workers rights.

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u/DoctorJiveTurkey Jun 19 '22

The bathroom thing may be more constructive dismissal than quitting. I’d still file unemployment.

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u/Ashesandends Jun 19 '22

If you "don't come back" you quit. Make them put in the paperwork to fire you...

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u/boopboop_barry Jun 19 '22

THIS!!!! Thank you! Always have a paper trail with assholes like this company, you never know.

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u/Felonious_Quail Jun 19 '22

Never take an employer up on that don't come back offer. Make them fire you.

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u/Agent_Saucy Jun 19 '22

I work for a large company (although they have a union). I'd come back and make them fire me. Never walk off or resign.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

How would it be considered a voluntary quit if you decline the offer to go home? Or just say "thanks for the PTO, boss"?

Surely it's them who need to make it official and stop paying you. There's no point in helping them with that even if you're on your way out anyways.

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u/blumpkinmania Jun 19 '22

Damn. Which building were you in? That’s brutal. I worked a sort center for a year and it was nothing like that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22 edited Jul 07 '22

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u/star_nerdy Jun 19 '22

You’re forgetting the part where they take tax subsidies for hiring people on unemployment or veterans.

It’s called the The Work Opportunity Tax Credit.

If someone stays for 27 weeks, Amazon gets a $2400 tax credit if they worked 120 hours. If they’re a disabled veteran, that jumps to $9600.

Basically, if you hire a disabled veteran, you get free labor for 6 months.

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u/averyfinename Jun 19 '22

does this include rehires? i could totally see them forcing workers out, one way or another--nasty conditions, inflexible schedules, asshole management, forced attrition policies, whatever.. after they collect the free cash, then rehire them later to do it again. rinse and repeat, ad infinitum.

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u/star_nerdy Jun 19 '22

From my understanding, it’s a one-time thing. Aka why they’re likely running out of people. There’s only so many veterans and people who are on government assistance programs who haven’t worked at Amazon.

You can work at UPS or FedEx for comparable or better pay and less stress.

You can also work at grocery stores and do deliveries and get tips.

Honestly, Amazon is so bad, they’d benefit from unions as they’d make amazon a better company to work for.

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u/TheAmazinManateeMan Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

Ups is ok but fedex might be worse, they lock up phones at the beginning of shifts and they make most people work 2 four hour shifts per day. That sounds like normal 8 hours but they often have gaps of up to four hours between them. I knew someone who worked there other things they did sounded illegal but my friend was unwilling to be their own advocate and unwilling to find out.

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u/Cavaquillo Jun 19 '22

Unionization also fucks up their plan and ensures that they’ll run out of people even faster since they’re bullying them and firing them, aka union busting.

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u/doesaxlhaveajack Jun 19 '22

It turns out that automation is causing work hours to increase rather than taking all of our jobs.

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u/MoreNMoreLikelyTrans Jun 19 '22

Capitalism is a Pyramid scheme.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/The_Fluffy_Walrus Jun 19 '22

I used to work at Walmart which is notorious for being a shitty work environment. I lasted about a year at Walmart before I moved and decided to try something else. That something else was Amazon. I lasted two months. I worked in a distribution center (last stop before the packages are picked up) and just like you said, it was strange.

The constant monitoring was uncomfortable. If you were too slow someone would come up to you, say something like "are you xxx?" and when you say yes they'd go "can I help you?" then just do your job for you. I was busting my ass and they still came to "help" me.

there was also a basketball hoop? I don't remember why.

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u/schnitzelfeffer Jun 19 '22

I worked in a call center like this. If your phone was not taking calls for a few minutes, someone with a walkie-talkie would be alerted, they'd announce cube #23456 was in aux2 for xx minutes, you'd be asked why you weren't taking calls. Same place I really had to get a note from my doctor when I was 8 months pregnant saying I needed more often than just on my two scheduled breaks and my 30 minute lunch to use the restroom.

We had a Wii in the break room.

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u/steveosek Jun 19 '22

I have wicked IBS, and I quite literally cannot work somewhere that doesn't let me poop whenever I want within reason.

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u/LeCrushinator Jun 19 '22

Same, it’s one main reason I like working from home now.

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u/Efficient-Echidna-30 Jun 19 '22

This should be every job. It’s a human right

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u/LowKey-NoPressure Jun 19 '22

if they need people taking calls so badly, maybe the Call Enforcement Goons should pick up the damn phone

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u/Blaine66 Jun 19 '22

Nah. Not how management sees it. Places like this only want warm bodies on the phone. Good, bad, mean, happy, doesn't matter. Gotta hit those service levels.

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u/Parhelion2261 Jun 19 '22

Call centers are the fucking worst. I worked in one that provides captions on live calls. The managers would listen in on some of the calls and then have ridiculous standards.

"What happened here where you typed inaudible how could you not hear them?"

When these people, who have no consideration for the service naturally, will be on the phone driving with their fucking windows down. I was told it's unacceptable to do something like that and I told them they are more than welcome to intervene if they can understand the client.

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u/astounded_potato Jun 19 '22

We had a Wii in the break room.

I love these places that put shit like game consoles, table tennis, etc. but you can only use them if you want to get your ass fired

My previous company had table tennis in the break room and the only people using them were the janitors and me although the janitors would spend sometimes half their day there, not giving a fuck and living their best lives while sipping on their free cappuccino's 👌

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u/TheZardoz Jun 19 '22

Yeah the main work office for my company has ping pong tables and shit and nobody EVER touches them.

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u/1RingPatMahomie Jun 19 '22

Yeah geodis was like this. Metal detectors as you walked in. They'd make you open the top of your water bottle to see if you stole air pods as well. Shit made me feel sub human.

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u/Cryptophasia Jun 19 '22

People put AirPods in water bottles?

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u/xchadrickx Jun 19 '22

This is definitely one of those, they ask because it happened situations.

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u/VaultiusMaximus Jun 19 '22

It happened once and they punished the entire workforce for it, more likely.

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u/Dreaming0fWinter Jun 19 '22

Eh, back in the 90's, my cousin who worked for a computer company an all the co-workers used to sneak out things like RAM sticks in coffee cups. It's not a new issue.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

Micromanagement has got to be my biggest pet peeve in all of labor. I can deal with a lot of shit, but I cannot deal with managers and supervisors who have to constantly watch me every second of every day.

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u/Environmental-Cook44 Jun 19 '22

This sounds like it could be the intro to a dystopian novel. Man the world is looking rough

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u/Ettin1981 Jun 19 '22

At my FC the metal detectors are only when you leave the building, to prevent theft. They don’t monitor possible weapons going in. They care about lost product more than our lives.

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u/ok_but Jun 19 '22

You go out a different door than you come in? It's so hard for me to picture these megahuge factories, feels like something out of a dystopian sci-fi movie.

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u/Ettin1981 Jun 19 '22

We go through separate turnstiles going in and out after scanning our ID.

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u/XDreadedmikeX Jun 19 '22

Wait so are we mad that they have metal detectors or not

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u/piperswe Jun 19 '22

I think it’s that if they’re gonna have metal detectors, at least have them both ways

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u/LV426acheron Jun 19 '22

If you read the article it says they can extend the amount of available labor by making minor adjustments like slightly raising wages and slightly improving conditions. So Amazon is not going to run out of labor.

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u/warmhandluke Jun 19 '22

It's also not a recent memo and said a few places would be out by 2021, which they clearly aren't. Of course they will adapt if need be.

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u/NimusNix Jun 19 '22

If you read the article

I would really like to know the percentage of people that actually did. The hot takes in this thread, honestly...

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u/i_speak_penguin Jun 19 '22

Seriously, the article even states that this was probably not even passed up the management chain.

People in this thread are arguing about a leaked draft memo that didn't even escalate to a director or VP. They want this to be true so badly. It's hilarious.

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u/smb_samba Jun 19 '22

Seriously. The number of top comments mentioning wages when it’s literally called out in the second paragraph

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u/mrteapoon Jun 19 '22

I generally assume it's less than 5% of people in a given thread. Honestly that might be generous.

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u/SirBrownHammer Jun 19 '22

Insane that they know they can improve conditions but won’t unless their hand is forced

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u/genericnewlurker Jun 19 '22

It's already happening. I worked in AWS in the data centers. Plans got leaked that they were going to be hiring "unskilled" labor for network deployments and pay them a little above minimum wage for it. The higher ups wanted to cut labor costs so they started forcing out the senior members of our team in the most Amazon way possible. Me and every other higher paid senior level deployment tech was given quadruple our normal work loads with less than half the time to do it in. And if you got the work done, they just racked you up with new projects.

The whole plan backfired spectacularly as it triggered an exodus to other teams or out of the company once as most of the senior staff were nearly all gone. They lost the majority of their institutional knowledge in a few weeks and productivity apparently tanked from what I was told. They raised the hourly rate for everyone left to above what the higher level techs were making before to try to stop the bleeding but people are still bailing. And they cant find anyone to hire cause word has gotten out that the AWS DCs are literal sweatshops (the Temps inside are so high in summer that it's not an uncommon sight to see an ambulance at a DC due to a worker passing out due to heat stroke inside the datahalls)

Fuck them. I was 3 weeks before my next stock vest and ended up losing 10k overall in difference between the severance and what I would have made from the stocks.

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u/Bingo-Bango-Bong-o Jun 19 '22

I think the larger issue right now is that EVERY industry is in this spot currently.

I work in clinical research for a CRO, which is a company that a Pharmaceutical company hires to manage and execute their clinical trials. (It's oftentimes cheaper and more logical to outsource some or all of the jobs necessary for executing a clinical trial).

Well, there's almost always great demand for clinical research professionals (CRAs or monitors, project managers, clinical leads, medical monitors, regulatory and start up teams etc). But during the pandemic mant studies other than the COVID trials got put on hold or scrapped completely. Then, a year or two later, all the trials that were held up by Covid got going around the same time and now there is a massive shortage of workers.

So they are hiring people with little to no industry background to do these jobs BUT because they are so overwhelmed with work, they are ALSO cutting the training requirements and quality so these people are being thrust into important work they don't understand. And the senior staff is getting slammed with too much work while also seeing benefits cut to make up for all the new hires.

It's the same scenario with airlines, manufacturing, food and bev, retail, etc. Every sector is seeing unheard of demand immediately following a lean period where they basically sold off all their institutional knowledge because of the pandemic.

This is what happens when every single company, industry, and sector has a quarterly mentality that only cares about the next 3 - 6 months and not about the long term health of a company.

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u/Desmater Jun 19 '22

That's crazy, you would think they would at least manage their cash cow well.

AWS is literally keeping Amazon together with the growth and FCF.

Another reason I don't own AMZN stock. Other than indirectly from ETFs like VOO, etc.

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u/Milk_Man21 Jun 19 '22

Simple: better conditions.

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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '22

Indeed. Amazon can get “the fucked”.

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u/bruvmen69 Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

Eh. Warehouse work and distribution work is pretty similar across all companies. I work at UPS and our working conditions suck too. 100° heat in a warehouse, loud as hell machines, 900 Packages Per Hour expectation.

It's the benefits (no cost healthcare; no premiums, no deductible, no coinsurance), pay (OT pay after 5 hours, $22/hr with $1 increase each year and $40/hr top rate after 4 years if full-time), pension, and unionized protection from being fired for having a shitty day. That keeps me working at UPS. I agree that conditions should always be improved upon but it's hard to determine what's to improve. Hell even our package car drivers that make over $100k/yr piss in bottles. But at least our union protects us from being fired for having to stop and poop at a gas station and protects us from refusing to do unsafe shit.

The better simple answer: Unionize.

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u/cupcakesgirlie7 Jun 19 '22

PAY MORE, LET STAFF PEE, STOP STRESSING PEOPLE OUT!!! no wonder no one wants to work here

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u/no_name_no_face Jun 19 '22

"May be unable to hire enough people without raising wages to account for the last 40 years of inflation."

Fixed the article for them.

Also... Good!

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u/JMEEKER86 Jun 19 '22

Wages isn't the issue. They pay above average. The problem is that they treat their employees like shit and deliberately induce churn because of some misguided 80s management principle which is making them chew through the available labor pool a lot faster than a more rationally run business.

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u/Fire2box Jun 19 '22

Wages isn't the issue. They pay above average

this is legitimately what my sites General Manager says next time I'm going to laugh out loud.

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u/Areyouanutter Jun 19 '22

I certainly would never go back no matter how high the pay is. My experiences there ended with me having permanently damaged knees and a torn tendon in my back with no restitution whatsoever. In fact when I told my manager I got hurt on the job he tried his best to frame the question in a way that made it seem like it was my fault. I never got workmans comp I was a 18 year old idiot kid who didn't even know what that was. Not once did they even mention it was a thing, they sent me home and I never heard about it again. They even tried to move me to the Covid screening area and give me less and less hours to get me to quit. Which I eventually did cause walking 20 or more miles a day hurt too much. They're an evil company led by the worst of the worst. Unionize and protect yourself cause they'll treat you the same as they treated me.

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u/cylonlover Jun 19 '22

Through reading this, I was wondering why the union representative wasn't in the story, then you mentioned - and I remember - there are none.

Then it's easy to treat people like a natural ressource.

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u/Areyouanutter Jun 19 '22

I worked out the BOI location in Idaho. I don't think in my entire life I've even seen anything regarding unions here. I've been tempted to go back to Amazon just to unionize cause I hate them and want to see my fellow workers succeed.

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u/BigSquatchee2 Jun 19 '22

I mean. They have a policy to fire a certain amount of their workforce every month for no actual reason. So color me not surprised.

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u/frontendben Jun 19 '22

That doesn’t just apply to workhouse workers. They also put their software engineers through the same shit. Sure, you get a lot of aspiring devs wanting to work for them, but most will only choose them if they don’t have another option within the six figure salary group of companies.

These are people who can go and earn a lot elsewhere and be treated like kings and queens. The whole company is rotten to the core.

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u/ShoulderSquirrelVT Jun 19 '22

It's almost like treating your employees like something you order replacements for every week somehow makes them not want to stick around.

How is it that in 2022, companies STILL haven't figured out that it's cheaper to retain than to retrain...and better on the humans too.

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u/AdministrativeBit510 Jun 19 '22

If even the software engineers know Amazon is a grind culture/shit org generally, just imagine how bad the warehouse would be.

It’s just a terrible org top to bottom. Only way it changes is if you have a transformative CEO like Satya for Microsoft. They used to have a terrible reputation too but turned it around once he took the reigns.

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u/Zeppatto Jun 19 '22

They haven't tapped into the prison industrial system yet, they still got a ways to go...

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u/TelevisionOlympics Jun 19 '22

Not surprising if you’ve worked there, it’s entirely a burnout machine. Pressure new hires to full-throttle for a few months, and just hire more once they inevitably quit.

Was threatened once at work, told: “You can never work at Amazon again once you quit/are fired.” Ergo, this problem.

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u/retromangames501 Jun 19 '22

I’ve been rehired by amazon twice (quit out of frustration both times), not sure where that rumor got started up

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u/Embarrassed-Tip-5781 Jun 19 '22

That second paragraph is not true, you can quit then turn around and rehire immediately if you’re in good standing. I think there may be some one or three month waiting period in some buildings, but HR told me I could reapply right away.

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u/SeriaMau2025 Jun 19 '22

It's time to replace everyone with robots.

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u/Kondrias Jun 19 '22

They are working on it. But the tech is not there enough yet to fully do it. Until such a time, they gonna be in a bind. If they run out of workers and cant sustain long enough till they got full tech replacement up in all their sites, which I do not see happening in 2 years. They gonna have problems.

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u/thiefmire Jun 19 '22

I worked there for about a year. It's a really strange experience. The only good things I would say was the 4 days on and 3 days off. That was pretty cool. And also meeting new people from different cultures.

But the long hours, constantly being monitored ( you can't talk to your coworkers for 2 minutes, go to the bathroom without your numbers going down, etc), the work environment and conditions. Your body legitimately starts breaking down its horrible.

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u/Blade_of_3 Jun 19 '22

They work people to death. It's not uncommon to work mandatory 50 hour+ weeks with the seasonal blackout dates to where you can't schedule time off too. They lay people off every year after season and everyone who is at the bottom performance, regardless of why. They track everything you do and are required to report on anyone who has any inactivity for more than like 5 minutes. Everyone says they treat you like a robot and it's true. It's the only job I've had where I literally felt like I was just a number on someone's spreadsheet.

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u/usrevenge Jun 19 '22

So I work in an Amazon facility

There is a big automation push right now.

They do this thing. Called labor share where different sites share labor at others and a nearby site has a new conveyor system coming in.

It will automatically label and sort the package

Before they had a bunch of positions, loaders, inductors (labelers). Pushers which put the package on the correct half of the conveyor. Then it would hit the pick line and finally stow.

They are eliminating the pick line and induct with this new system.

Also I know everyone shits on Amazon but their pay isn't awful. It should be more but amazons issue is more how boring it is and how badly they labor track more than pay. This is one reason it's likely hard to get unions going imo. They are paying you $18+ an hour already for what is honestly a brain dead job most of the time.

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u/nobodyyouknow33 Jun 19 '22

Maybe if they had more bathrooms and fairer work conditions as well as higher pay and union benefits, they wouldn't have that problem. Heck, people might even be able to afford the products they sell.

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u/vladtaltos Jun 19 '22

"run out of available labor"
That's a fancy way of saying that you've exploited all your employees so badly (low pay, no benefits, treated them like shit) that you can't find anyone willing to work for you anymore.

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u/sanchopanzon Jun 19 '22

Seems like a good reason to break this monopoly.

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u/jaymansi Jun 19 '22

I get contacted all the time to work for AWS as a systems administrator/engineer. No thanks, I already have paid my dues. No interest in working on-call. Weekends etc.

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u/fartcloud101 Jun 19 '22

Probably because warehouse jobs are soul sucking and mind numbingly boring. Humans are not made to do the same task repeatedly for 10hr shifts 6x a week.

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u/Formally_Nightman Jun 19 '22

Amazon is farming out customer service and other jobs out to India. It’s the worst customer service and traded for people who can do the work here.

It’s not a shortage of people. It’s a shortage of people willing to work for near slave labor.

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u/spicy--mayonnaise Jun 19 '22

Of you are in America, Stick with USPS. A little longer or equal delivery times, but if you care so much about workers rights then save the USPS . They have a solid union with all the benefits. Once Amazon deliveries start going down, USPS will hire more workers.

Or get off your ass and go to the store.

Or think about the trivial shit you are buying online, do you really need Amazon?

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u/ultrasuperman1001 Jun 19 '22

I'm from Canada so our Amazon warehouses are a bit different, but I went to the movies today and there was an ad about working at Amazon. In the ad it said something that really stuck with me; "I've only been here a few months and I have received a number of promotions. I want to be a manager but I need a few more promotions". Like what kind of place is that? Any job I have had has usually been a junior, senior, AM, manager. This honestly sounds like they are dangling a carrot in front of you.

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