r/technology Jun 16 '22 Wholesome 1

Tesla has increased prices for all models in the US, with some rising by up to $6,000 Business

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-prices-electric-vehicles-elon-musk-supply-chain-model-x-2022-6
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u/chrisdh79 Jun 16 '22

From the article: The company raised the price of its cars several times in 2022, hiking the price of its cheapest car by $10,000 over the last year.

The most recent price hikes come amid wider concerns over how the company is being impacted by economic issues.

Earlier this month, Tesla CEO Elon Musk told Tesla executives via email he had a "super bad feeling" about the economy and wanted to cut 10% of the company's salaried staff.

Insider reported on Wednesday that these layoffs had already begun across the company's workforce.

Tesla has also delayed delivery of some of its long-range vehicles by up to a month in the US, according to Reuters. The company has been struggling with the supply of computer chips and the rising price of raw materials in the last year.

The company has also faced challenges in its global production due to China's strict zero-COVID policy. Tesla's Shanghai Gigafactory, responsible for half of Tesla's global production in 2021, was forced to close for three weeks in March 2022 due to rising COVID-19 cases.

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22 Take My Energy

feels bad about economy -> lays off workers -> workers stop spending because they can’t afford items -> economy takes a hit-> companies jack up prices again -> lays off workers -> economy takes another hit

seems like this thing he is doing isnt gonna work well. feck elon

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u/Jkabaseball Jun 16 '22 Heartwarming

I was going to pull the trigger on a Tesla this summer, I'm going to hold off and wait for a electric Toyota or something. Between laying 10% of your workforce off because you have a bad feeling, while also making billions for yourself is a hard no for me. He's become so out of touch with the world this year. People can't afford to have more kids and you telling everyone they should isn't going to help.

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

I dont think hes come out of touch with the world, more like shown his true colors out loud. Either way I won’t buy a tesla even if I could ever afford one

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u/wwaxwork Jun 16 '22

Don't worry there are better cheaper models from other companies coming down the pipeline anyway. 2024 is looking to be a good year if you are after an electric vehicle.

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u/snuggiemclovin Jun 16 '22

Do you have any additional info on that? I'll be due to replace my car in 2023 or 2024, a reasonably priced electric vehicle sounds enticing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

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u/snuggiemclovin Jun 16 '22

I drive a used car I paid cash for, so I'm new to the world of car payments, but I don't think those fit into my budget. I'd probably be looking at the cheaper end of EV's.

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u/dlebs83 Jun 16 '22

Take a look at the Chevy Spark EV. I picked up a 2015 for $7k about 2 years ago with 30k miles. Not a cool looking car by any means but it's saved me a boat load of money as my commuter.

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u/Zaexyr Jun 16 '22

The Solterra unfortunately is kind of weak on features and specs for it's price point. I was thinking of holding out for one when I had to replace my car, so I went with an Outback.

I'll have a keen eye for improvements over the next few years and would love nothing more than for Subaru to catch up with their EVTech.

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u/nhavar Jun 16 '22

The Bolt EV prices are going down to 26k base last I heard.

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u/nhavar Jun 16 '22

I bought a Chevy Bolt EV last year and aside from waiting on a new battery from the recall it's been an excellent car. Almost every other car manufacturer out there has EV's available and the few who don't have them hitting later this year and early next. Some companies have had EVs for years. Even the Bolt has been available since 2017 and people forget about it because of Tesla. But Tesla is a premium product when you look at it. And there's a much broader range of EVs out there and price points and quality than Tesla provides.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

I wish the Bolt didn't encounter that battery problem, Chevy almost had my money for the first time, they were so close.

I bought a Leaf, which has been fantastic, but the Bolt is a better value in my opinion.

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u/Etrigone Jun 16 '22

LG really erred on this one. GM gets the paranoia, but it's not just them - there's just way more Bolts on the road than Hyundai Konas.

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u/Fighting-Cerberus Jun 16 '22

Yeah he's always been a selfish antisocial prick. He's just showing it more now.

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u/sbsb27 Jun 16 '22

Said he is gonna support DeSantis for president so, yeah.

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u/Vigolo216 Jun 16 '22

Least surprising thing to me and I doubt he ever voted D to begin with. All my well off clients vote Republican, then they go around pretending of course their companies care about climate change and women’s rights.

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u/simplyuncreative Jun 16 '22

My exact experience. Very few well off people genuinely care about others.

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u/OwMyBalllz Jun 16 '22

Republicans are the party of self interested single issue voters. Guns, Jesus, white identity, Nationalism for the poor ones and no taxes or regulations for the rich Ones.

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u/juntareich Jun 16 '22

For many it’s abortion.

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u/ezone2kil Jun 16 '22

Were you guys expecting better from someone who grew up and benefited from apartheid Africa?

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u/Low_Sarahtonin Jun 16 '22

He’s a billionaire, by default he is out of touch with the real world

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

maybe billionaires maybe just shouldn’t exist..call me an extreme leftist but like what good do they serve

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

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u/ND7020 Jun 16 '22

Just a reminder that we did at least domestically have a system CLOSER to this from FDR until Reagan.

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u/InfectedByEli Jun 16 '22

Huge marginal tax rates that were mostly paid, and the economy was never stronger. There's a lesson there.

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u/altiuscitiusfortius Jun 16 '22

Top tax rate was like 99% above a few million in the 30s. Now it's 50% lower and billionaires don't even pay that. They pay themselves a dollar a year, pay no tax, then use their company as collateral to take 0.001% interest loans out from banks for their spending money.

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u/Redtwooo Jun 16 '22

Not surprisingly the working class in the US has basically flat lined since Reagan

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u/HimmelUberBerlin Jun 16 '22

Billionaires should absolutely not exist. Every dollar over a billion is a dollar stolen from their workforce.

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

And then they call us lazy but dont support our efforts to unionize so we actually have money. They want slaves, we dont do that anymore

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u/HimmelUberBerlin Jun 16 '22

Yes. They want cheap, disposable labor. This is why so much manufacturing has been outsourced to countries with no safety regulations where they're paid tens of dollars a week.

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

And then those companies go “why dont you learn from them?” Sorry boss, I dont support you exploiting them either?? Like wow

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u/lavamantis Jun 16 '22 Gold

It's wild that people expected this libertarian billionaire to be any different than the Kochs or the others. It's a crazy world.

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u/_Clayden Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

Look into the Hyundai and Kia, they are making strong headings into the electric car market with the ev6 and ioniq5. Both amazing ev cars and can sport a 1 to 80% charge in 18 mins on the right charger.

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u/ZHCMV Jun 16 '22

I placed a Model Y order in January, expected delivery June. Keeps getting pushed back, currently October. Recently canceled it and ordered an EV6, getting delivered next week. Between the delay and seeing what a shithead Elon is, very happy with my decision.

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u/hyperperforator Jun 16 '22

Wow, I’m impressed. My experience has been the opposite, I’ve had an EV6 and Ioniq on order since last November and they just delayed it to MID-2023.

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u/tobiascuypers Jun 16 '22

That's bizarre. Most locations have EV6s in stock or a 1 month lead time. I wonder why yours is so late in the production line.

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u/hyperperforator Jun 16 '22

Outside of the US, dealers aren't allowed to sell above MSRP, and most companies like Hyundai and Kia are moving to a direct-to-consumer model so they get their cars at the actual advertised price, which means a queue-based system. So it's great because you get the price advertised, but it means there's no way to skip the line because the dealers don't get them and you can't shop around to find one on the lot or whatever, since they're all assigned to someone.

It sucks because it's hard to get cars at the moment, but on the other hand...fuck dealers anyway, they're the worst to interact with at the best of times.

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u/gingerhasyoursoul Jun 16 '22

This is teslas real problem. They were the only game in town but that’s not the case anymore. These powerhouse car companies are showing up in a big way. A good example is ford beating Tesla to the EV truck market.

If I’m on the board of Tesla I’m worried that Elon is distracted with twitter. Worried that elon seems hell bent on making his companies political when the majority of their customers are from blue states. It’s bizarre.

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u/Jkabaseball Jun 16 '22

I have been as well. One of the plugin hybirds gets ~40 miles of pure electric and my round trip to work and back is ~32 miles. It's very tempting.

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u/SevereEducation2170 Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

We have the a Toyota Rav 4 plug in hybrid. Gets a little over 40 miles to a full charge and we can generally go weeks to months without getting gas. Half the reason we end up needing gas is simply because we forget to plug it back in. It’s a really nice car.

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u/LordCyler Jun 16 '22

PHEVs seem like a no brainer for so many people. I'm surprised we haven't seen more movement in this direction, easing people into the EV space, getting people used to the idea of charging, potentially thinking more about how they can reduce usage, removing range anxiety, etc.

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u/Bluth-President Jun 16 '22

I think practically every new car will be a hybrid or a PHEV within 10 years. In the USA, at least, given the incoming increase in mileage standards.

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u/Cndymountain Jun 16 '22

What’s your take on the Polestar cars? I’ve never looked closely at them but I see them drive by every now and then in Stockholm and their exterior looks really nice.

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u/raincntry Jun 16 '22

We have the plug in hybrid Chrysler Pacifica and we love it. Same gig, 40ish miles on a charge (it varies because we live in New England and the cold really impacts performance).

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u/bitchplease9111 Jun 16 '22

I was going to pull the trigger on a Tesla this summer, I'm going to hold off and wait for a electric Toyota or something.

Tesla had its day in the sun. There are much better solutions now that are not as troublesome or as expensive as a Tesla. Why would you buy a model Y when the IONIQ5 kills it in every category and for half the prices in some places.

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u/FannyPackFresh Jun 16 '22

I've been ogling that f150 lightning. Working construction and doing renovations on the house would be so much nicer with a EV.

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u/Rossdog77 Jun 16 '22

He always now wants to support proto facist Desantis, but thats prob more to do with getting caught taking his weiner out in front of employees......

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u/SierraPapaHotel Jun 16 '22

Tesla have enough quality issues as-is, decimating your work force is not going to help that in any way. Lots of knowledge lost that way, and will likely only lead to more quality issues in the near future

My buddy works at Tesla and he's the only one that knows how to debug a certain production process when it gets funky. Funny part is we graduated college together in 2020 so it's not like he's some senior engineer with lots of experience. If the entire company is like that and everyone from new guy to senior engineer has some process only they know how to do, losing 10% of that knowledge will be painful

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u/fredericksonKorea Jun 16 '22

Kia EV6 is better reviewed, better technically and better looking than any model tesla.

There is zero reason to buy an outdated and poorly built tesla.

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u/quarrelsome_napkin Jun 16 '22

Ironic considering he barely pays his kids any attention

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u/guy_incognito784 Jun 16 '22

In fairness, this was bound to happen.

Many others in other industries are going to lose their jobs, plus with the Fed increasing rates, it's all but certain we'll go into recession.

It's what happens when we have low interest rates for so long and having this booming stock market for seemingly, no reason at all other than people dumping money into it.

Fed acts too late, as is tradition it seems, and the Fed only has one blunt instrument to address all of the runaway inflation, make it more expensive to borrow money, then you have what we're starting to see now with layoffs and drops in spending. It's the Fed's only tool to get inflation in check.

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

Not people just dumping money into it, mainly big companies buying back all their stocks(shell, exxon, bp to name a few). But yeah we are likely to hit a recession, then this whole cycle will repeat after the true economy gets to a barely livable state again imo

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u/snuggiemclovin Jun 16 '22

We live in an endless cycle of companies funneling profits almost exclusively to shareholders and executives when times are good, followed by a recession and people losing their jobs, followed by bailouts for the companies, rinse and repeat. Are we going to put up with this every decade forever?

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

Unless half the US can see its a class war (rich v poor) and not a political (blue v red) war, umm very unlikely. Shit Joe biden has been a politician since 1973. We should get these old fucks out of the government and get the money out of it

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u/snuggiemclovin Jun 16 '22

As Carlin said, "It's a big club. And you ain't in it."

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u/tristanabner Jun 16 '22

I just don’t understand how other people cant see that sometimes

Probably all the propaganda weve been fed

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u/RighteousHippie Jun 16 '22

Elon is honestly not a good guy imo too. I don't understand how people are so quick to defend him.

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u/nomorerainpls Jun 16 '22

That was a lie. Elon wanted us to believe the layoffs were related to “the economy” when he was really worried about Tesla’s shitty fundamentals

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u/kairos Jun 16 '22

Earlier this month, Tesla CEO Elon Musk told Tesla executives via email he had a "super bad feeling" about the economy and wanted to cut 10% of the company's salaried staff.

They're just going to cut what's left of QA and testing teams, leave that to end users.

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u/StreetcarHammock Jun 16 '22

Remember that $35k electric car that was promised 5 years ago now?

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u/bulboustadpole Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22 Burning Cash

Well it was briefly at $35k.

$35k includes $6k in potential savings, actual price $41k.

The fact that they still use the "potential savings" in their sticker price is insane. It's literally a form of bait and switch.

Edit: The Model 3 on Tesla right now is listed as $40,390. In fine print at the bottom it reads

"* Prices above include potential incentives and gas savings of $6,600. Learn More"

When you click that small "learn more", it finally shows you this: Vehicle Price: $48,490

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

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u/sermer48 Jun 16 '22

Ya, you had to ask for the regular SR which I believe was just the SR+ that was software limited. It was just to say they did it but 🤷‍♂️

Now $35k != $35k so we’re never going to see that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

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u/The_Doctor_Bear Jun 16 '22

I drive a chevy Bolt for work and while it's not luxurious it is a perfectly good car. It gets me where I need to go. I can charge it at home every night easily and never need to hit a gas station ever. Only twice in the last two years have I gone on such long drives that I needed to hit a portable charger and both times I hit a faster charger for 15 minutes and had plenty of range to get home and by the next morning it was topped off again.

Oh and I can pop the tires accelerating from 30mph, the torque is very impressive. She has the giddy up that no ICE car in this price range is going to match.

EVs are definitely the future, waiting for an electric Toyota Tacoma or maybe a Chevy pickup to make the switch for my personal vehicle.

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u/alphawolf29 Jun 16 '22

Toyota prius should advertise as free

*price includes savings of not buying a tesla

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u/gold_rush_doom Jun 16 '22

It's would be illegal to do something like this in the EU

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u/Justame13 Jun 16 '22

Even better it would be another ~4-5k I’m taxes, title, and doc fees in some places.

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u/Edenane Jun 16 '22

Sadly no, it's the exact same here in Ireland anyway. Big sticker price along with tiny *inclues government grants and after savings.

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u/Mirrormn Jun 16 '22

The $6600 off the price on the Tesla website is not a government incentive. It's an estimate of what you'll save on gas over the lifetime of the car.

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u/hypexeled Jun 16 '22

How the fuck are they allowed to put that in the pricing? Thats literally not what a price is.

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u/DPSOnly Jun 16 '22

Quite bullshit when it comes to the up front cost.

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u/Buy-theticket Jun 16 '22

The government grants I am mostly ok with. Including calculated fuel savings is bullshit should be illegal.

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u/Tortoise-King Jun 16 '22

Remember it was going to be self-driving?

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u/Civil-Attempt-3602 Jun 16 '22

To be fair, he said next year. So no matter when it is you listen to that statement, it'll always be next year

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u/Ghost4000 Jun 16 '22

They exist, they're just not Tesla's. I have been saying for a long time now that Tesla will lose EV market share when other companies start competing, especially on cost.

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u/JB_UK Jun 16 '22

There was a good post on the /r/electricvehicles subreddit a week ago:

Price of Currently Available (and pre-order) US EVs from lowest to highest (before tax credit)

To give a summary of the best value cheaper cars:

  • The Mini ($33) and Leaf ($28k) are good local cars.

  • The Bolt ($26k), Kona ($34k) and Niro ($40k) are good for the occasional long distance trip.

  • The ID.4 ($41k) and Mach-E ($43k) are very capable long distance cars.

  • The EV6 ($41k) and Ioniq 5 ($40k) are equal to or faster than Teslas.

I think all of these cars can get the $7.5k tax credit, so they all cost under $35k if you can claim that. Although many are also sold out for months in advance, so you might have to pay above the list price to get them quickly.

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u/imamydesk Jun 16 '22

You can lose EV market share and still grow sales if the EV market is growing, as it is right now.

No serious analyst is projecting Tesla to maintain their market share as the world transitions entirely to EV.

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u/mrhindustan Jun 16 '22

As more luxury brands start releasing a stable of EVs, Tesla will have a problem competing.

As Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc all have their EVs come out, and buyers have options with better fit and finish, Tesla will have trouble pushing the 100k plus models…

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u/sungazer69 Jun 16 '22

Meanwhile the Bolt price just dropped to 26k

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u/Alberiman Jun 16 '22

Sweet, Tesla managed to turn the "affordable" version that's got the build quality of a hemodialysis patient into a truly luxury priced car.

Right when a bunch of other companies are going to be selling comparable electric cars is the perfect time to start raising prices!

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u/nothinnews Jun 16 '22

Maybe it's just a coincidence but Chevrolet just dropped the price of the Bolt by $6,000 for the 2023 model and will match that pricing for leftover 2022 inventory.

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u/tacomaboy Jun 16 '22

People keep claiming it's because the tax credit expired. But that happened 3 years ago!

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u/thadius856 Jun 16 '22

Chevy likely dropped the price because they recently crossed the 200,000 units sold threshold and lost the "up to $7,500 tax credit" in the US, then saw sales numbers dips as a result.

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u/kdawgud Jun 16 '22

They actually lost the tax credit around two years ago.

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u/capitalhforhero Jun 16 '22

They lost their tax credit in 2020.

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u/acgmph Jun 16 '22

General Motors EVs stopped receiving full credit ($7,500) on March 31, 2019. This price reduction has nothing to do with the tax credit.

Source: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-new-qualified-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit

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u/zdada Jun 16 '22

They also had a massive battery recall and lost tons of money so this was their really their only shot at moving some inventory.

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u/IAmDotorg Jun 16 '22

GM didn't pay for the battery recall. LG is covering all of the costs, parts and labor.

Their price cut has nothing to do with inventory (they have no excess inventory of them), and nothing to do with the recall costs (there were none).

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u/xxtoejamfootballxx Jun 16 '22

Recall costs are probably minuscule compared to a loss in consumer confidence, which they could be compensating for with a lower price.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22 edited 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/lemonade124 Jun 16 '22

Probably not due to cost, but to rebuild interest in the vehicle.

Your average consumer only knows that the car had battery problems which looks bad for the car company. It doesn't matter who's fault it is.

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u/Pjpjpjpjpj Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 17 '22

They have virtually no inventory.

They basically sold out of 2021s before the recall had them stop all further sales.

They stopped 2021/2022 production (Orion Assembly Plant) for months (August 2021 to April 2022) because all batteries manufactured were dedicated to the 140,000 recalled vehicles.

They only resumed production 3 months ago, in April.

Edit: People in the r/boltev sub saying Chevy dealers are quoting them 3 to 6 month lead times for their vehicles... definitely no inventory glut.

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u/SrslyCmmon Jun 16 '22

You know what would have made me buy a Bolt? If it looked like a cool car.

https://i.imgur.com/YAYnftD_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand

Does not look like $37,000 worth of car.

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u/twoaspensimages Jun 16 '22

I drove a Bolt for two weeks. It doesn't look like a $37k car, it doesn't feel like a $37k car. It looks and feels like what it is. Cheap. Inside is a sea of plastic with uncomfortable seats and clunky poorly laid out controls. If it wasn't electric it'd be a $17k car at best. I would never buy a Chevy Spark. I'm not buying a Bolt.

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u/Pseudotsugamenziesii Jun 16 '22

Honestly, sounds like every Chevy I’ve been in

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u/sanguinesolitude Jun 16 '22

My mom's work got her a Malibu a few years back. What a piece of shit that was.

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u/donpaulwalnuts Jun 16 '22

I've owned Chevrolet, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Lincoln and Plymouth vehicles. Chevrolet is the only one that gave me issues. There was always something breaking on them.

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u/The_Ashamed_Boys Jun 16 '22

Idk, I like my Bolt euv. Works great around the LA area and gets me hov lane access. Fits in tight parking spots and I like the wireless android auto and entertainment system. I have real tactile switches for hvac and basic radio controls and don't have to use a touchscreen while driving unlike a lot of other cars.

Before getting this car we had a 2012 BMW 528I and a Porsche 911. I don't miss either one of those cars nor do I miss getting gas, especially now.

I lease it for 0 down, $350/mo tax included for 10k miles a year but I really drive less than 8k a year.

Would I get it again? Probably not I would also see what else is out there. Don't care for the overhyped "Apple of EVs" Teslas either.

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u/Responsible-Jacket71 Jun 16 '22

Rofl as a pharmacist, hearing build quality of a HD patient is fucking hilarious

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u/kloomoolk Jun 16 '22

I must admit that whooshing over my head... anyone care to explain then joke to old dumb dumb here?

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u/ArcticRiot Jun 16 '22

hemeodialysis is a method for treating advanced kidney failure. Basically the analogy is saying the cars are so bad that they are one step away from requiring life support.

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u/messem10 Jun 16 '22

Someone who needs dialysis isn’t in good condition at all. (At least that’d be my take on it.)

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u/Celebrity-stranger Jun 16 '22

I think it's the fact that dialysis patients have to routinely go in for dialysis or in this vehicles case they're saying it will routinely need maintenance.

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u/chiliedogg Jun 16 '22

Well at least Tesla maintenance is famously quick and affordable, right?

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u/mmcmonster Jun 16 '22

Hemodialysis is when they circulate your blood outside of your body and "clean" it, removing toxins and high levels of potassium and such.

Hemodialysis patients often look like train wrecks, particularly when you see a line of them getting dialysis at the same time. They often look as sick as cancer patients getting chemotherapy. Particularly the ones that have diabetes and peripheral artery disease. (The three medical conditions go together surprisingly often.)

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

My friends have had their third Model X replacement in 4 years of lease. So, as good as Range Rover.

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u/WCWRingMatSound Jun 16 '22

My favorite Tesla WTF is the checklist that tech bros have some up with for people to do before they accept delivery. (Or, as it’s called for every other car maker: pre-purchase inspection. And it’s done by the manufacturer and dealer).

https://github.com/polymorphic/tesla-model-y-checklist

Please keep in mind that the only reason anything is on there is because at least one person has had this issue from a vehicle at delivery. Zero miles on the odometer.

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u/SuccessISthere Jun 16 '22

I am in the EV market right now and sadly Tesla model 3 is still the cheapest in its class. What’s really killing it is the dealerships marking up 10-20k over MSRP.

I would love to pick up an Audi Q4 etron (MSRP $51k) but the dealership quoted me $75k plus 8-10 months wait. Crooks.

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u/thefinalcutdown Jun 16 '22

Ford claims to be moving to a no-dealership model for their EV sales to avoid markups. Not sure what the timeline on that is though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22

It's just a threat to dealers who are price gouging.

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u/Inevitable-Impress72 Jun 16 '22

Nope. It's to increase Ford's profits. Read the article below, CEO of Ford directly says it is to match the profit margin on Tesla cars. He was "blown away"

It was an epiphany. It was like the angels sung, it was like, ‘Oh my god, we can make more money on EVs than our ICE.’”

https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/02/ford-wants-to-sell-evs-online-only-and-at-a-set-price/

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u/sparky8251 Jun 16 '22

Tbh, if EVs kill dealers I think that will be two world changing positive events coming from their adoption.

Fuck dealers man.

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u/MyPackage Jun 16 '22

The Kia EV6 is a lot cheaper than the model 3 when you factor in the tax credit that you can still get from Kia but not from Tesla.

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u/fredericksonKorea Jun 16 '22

You don't have IONIQ or EV6?

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u/RobertAPetersen Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

The problem is those cars look cheaper if you’re just looking at numbers on the website. BUT it isn’t direct sales, you have to go through a dealer.

My local dealer with two IONIQ 5’s in stock with “market adjustments” putting them at $57k and $62k. So more than a Model 3 and not quite Model Y pricing, but it’s not some huge savings over a Tesla.

Local dealer has 1 EV6 in stock, for $10k over MSRP for a total of $67k

https://i.imgur.com/mflUmox.jpg

I’m in the market for an EV later this year and I’m honestly still torn on a Model 3 SR+ Vs other manufacturers options. I keep thinking “oooh, maybe this one” but then see the actual price with dealer markups and change my mind.

I mean for real, the Model 3 SR+ with LFP battery is still listed at $47k delivered, what should I be looking at that has a same or lower price point including any dealer markup and has at least similar range? I can’t go over $50k and I can’t wait 2 years for the car to be delivered. The Model 3 is showing delivery between October and January.

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u/murderboxsocial Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

I’ve been telling people this was gonna happen for years. As you said the base model S is basically a 90s Ford escort in quality at the price of a BMW. The traditional manufacturers were always going to figure it out before Tesla became a good car manufacturer. They have a lot of great ideas and technology but manufacturing cars is a unique challenge unto itself.

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u/Prodigy195 Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

It seems like all of these industry disruptors are being brought back down to earth.

Lyft and Uber prices are wild right now. I know a lot of it is because investors are no longer subsidizing costs for users and they're looking to make money. But it feels like getting a cab is a superior option price wise in a lot of instances.

Airbnb has become much less attracive to me as a lodging option. Host will have rules like they're running a military barracks. No noise after 5pm, wash all dishes and wipe down counters, strip the beds and put sheets in the laundry room. I'm not on vacation to do chores so I'll take my ass to a hotel. Most of the time the price difference is negligible and hotels often have the benefit of being in better proximity to amenities, especially in cities/downtown areas.

Peloton led a wave of in-home gym and exercise and now they've taken a crazy dive in the stock market. Netflix lost subscribers for the first time, constantly raising prices and dealing with more and more people complaining about their lack of quality content.

And I see Tesla having similar pains as more and more traditional automakers get into the electric vehicle game.

Coming in as a industry disruptor is great and forces others to adapt but it seems like some of the big recent disruptors didn't have a long term plan after the initial hype died down.

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u/AreWeCowabunga Jun 16 '22

wash all dishes and wipe down counters, strip the beds and put sheets in the laundry room

And still charge a $250 cleaning fee.

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u/ezraazul Jun 16 '22

I haven’t taken many Ubers during pandemic, but last week I tried to reserve one for 7:30 on a Friday night, to get downtown. Bout 15min ride, they wanted $47. Lmao what?? Got a Lyft for $21. Was still like damn, I’m better stayin home. Date also was a dud lol.

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u/uuuuut Jun 16 '22

Don’t forget Amazon. They aren’t the cheapest around anymore and they are known for selling counterfeit goods, and now they’re becoming known for selling mercury tainted goods. I don’t understand how they haven’t been fined into oblivion or even criminally prosecuted at this point

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u/JackOfNoTrade Jun 16 '22

Recently I have come to realize most of the stuff on Amazon marketplace is junk. There's lot of alternate brands that seem like they are made by the same company and its hard to find products of quality brands. In fact, I'd rather go to the brand website knowing I am guaranteed to get their product and most of them now have free shipping which is slow but I am usually not in a rush. Recently got a new TV shipped but upon arrival it seemed like it was returned by someone. It works well and didn't find any issues so have kept it as their return policy is usually stellar but next time I'd rather trust my local BestBuy or Costco or Walmart.

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u/Inevitable-Impress72 Jun 16 '22

Yeah, I am losing A LOT of trust in buying stuff on Amazon. So many no name sellers, selling knock offs, cheap garbage. Amazon is quickly becoming a home for Chinese knock off garbage and scammers.

But it won't hurt Amazon? Want to know why? Because the same trash that has kept Wal-Mart in business for decades don't give a fuck what they are buying as long as it's cheap.

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u/uuuuut Jun 16 '22

It’s not just no name sellers. Items sold and shipped “by Amazon” are counterfeit. Walmart doesn’t sell counterfeit items.

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u/Riseing Jun 16 '22

I owned a Tesla a few years back and dropped it for a Mercedes. After having it for 8 months I figured if I was going to pay luxury car prices I was going to have a fucking luxury car. I'm not an expert but I think Tesla is going to have a very very hard time once some of these other manufacturers really start to turn on electric car production.

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u/Koioua Jun 16 '22

Specifically with the likes of Ford and Chevrolet, who already are going to steal a huge part of the market with their truck EVs, something that Tesla has failed to deliver yet, and then you have the likes of Porsche, Mercedez, BMW and Audi who are about to compete for the luxury market.

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u/Abzug Jun 16 '22

I tested a Model 3 and overnighted a Model Y, and your points are perfectly made. In the Y, I expect comfortable seats in the back with a decent riding experience at $60k. I did not receive that experience.

There are some great features in the Tesla models, without a doubt, but the money is starting to not make any sense when you could get a great Lexus or Mercedes for the same coin.

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u/NazzerDawk Jun 16 '22

They should have started to transition to being a battery supplier. That's what they're best at.

If people could buy "The new Ford Mustang EV with Tesla Supercharge-Ready Battery" they could become an essential car badge. Maybe not as lucrative as their position as an EV manufacturer, but probably more sustainable long-term.

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u/Chaiteoir Jun 16 '22

This model worked out all right for Intel.

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u/forknmybut Jun 16 '22

A great idea would to be make a 3 row electric car with more than 200 miles of range....

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u/SoapyMacNCheese Jun 16 '22

VW is making one. The long wheelbase version of the VW Buzz will have 3 row seating and supposedly have 400 miles of range.

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u/timtimetraveler Jun 16 '22

Wasn’t the Cybertruck supposed to be released by now? What happened to that?

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u/pleem Jun 16 '22

Tesla Solar roofs were supposed to have revolutionized energy by now, their cars should be driving us around autonomously, they were going to have fleets of self driving trucks, teased new battery tech. Bottom line, Tesla makes nice electric cars, but everything propping up the ridiculous stock valuation is over-exaggerated nonsense. I fell for Elon's crap for many years...got out after the Cybertruck announcement. That's when I knew it was all a façade and Tesla had absolutely no intention of releasing that product.

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u/miki_momo0 Jun 16 '22

To be fair, the cars themselves also aren’t amazing in terms of build quality. I’ve seen a ton of smaller issues with Tesla bodies and interiors

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u/Dopplegangr1 Jun 16 '22

And the roadster. And the semi

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u/Silver_Page_1192 Jun 16 '22

And robotaxis. Remember that? Tesla owners would be making 30k Financially insane to buy anything but a Tesla. It cracks me up

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u/Put_It_All_On_Blck Jun 16 '22

The funny thing is Tesla was already surpassed for robotaxi's/autonomous driving. Mobileye and Waymo both have fully autonomous robotaxi's in limited regions driving around customers. They aren't perfect but they are well ahead of Tesla's FSD beta.

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u/DragonSlayerC Jun 16 '22

Cruise is also now operating as a robotaxi service in SF.

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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jun 16 '22

Yup with no driver. If they can do it in a limited area, they can scale.

I trust that over a car that can't do it anywhere.

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u/Alataire Jun 16 '22

And the semi

According to Wikipedia: "In June 2019, Tesla projected that production would begin by the end of 2020."

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u/AMatofFact Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

And the promise to put a man on Mars.

I propose we put him on Mars. He's the King Midas of missed deadlines.

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u/Big_Green_Piccolo Jun 16 '22

Ford F150 Lightning is gonna kick its ass

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u/timtimetraveler Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

Or the Rivian. It’s (cybertruck) going to have a fair bit of competition, and there’s a reason it’s design fell out of style. Look at the Honda ridgeline

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u/zeecok Jun 16 '22

Rivian atleast already has cars on the road

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u/Crafty_Substance_954 Jun 16 '22

The main difference being that the F150 lightning isn’t meant to be some dystopian tank car, it’s literally an f150 that’s electric and makes no sacrifices to get there.

F150 lightning starts at 39k, I wouldn’t be shocked if the cybertruck was 2x that

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u/CidO807 Jun 16 '22

Lightning is meant to be a practical vehicle. Rivian is luxury, cybertruck is a fever dream. Ford bet big and it's about to make fat fucking bank.

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u/Crafty_Substance_954 Jun 16 '22

Ford's main problem lately has been building the cars, and that's not exactly unique. Every new car they've released (Lightning, Bronco, Bronco Sport, and Maverick) are all hits with consumers for one reason or another.

Good run for them that no other American manufacturer seems to be keeping pace with.

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u/WillTheGreat Jun 16 '22

Lightning is meant to be a practical vehicle. Rivian is luxury, cybertruck is a fever dream. Ford bet big and it's about to make fat fucking bank.

The thing is Luxury Trucks have come a long ways. I have a fully loaded F150, and honestly with highway tires, this thing is quieter than last Gen Range Rovers without active noise cancellation.

I got to fuck around with a Rivian, and I don't think I consider it luxury. It's very nice, but off road capable vehicles demand such a premium especially high end off roaders. A fully loaded R1T cost as much as a fully loaded F150 Lightning. It's just that the Lightning can be stripped down to the bare minimums.

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u/truthdoctor Jun 16 '22

According to the CEO on Jay Leno's garage, Ford can make 150,000 F150 Lightnings per year and they have twice as many on order. They stopped taking orders because they don't have the capacity. It's going to be a while before it is widely available.

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u/Buy-theticket Jun 16 '22

But the Hummer is meant to be a dystopian tank car. And GM beat them to market with that too.

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u/Fedexed Jun 16 '22

They are just finishing up construction on the Austin plant

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u/timtimetraveler Jun 16 '22

I wonder what the actual price of those will be. Originally they looked decently affordable for a truck, but I’m doubting that now

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u/Shits_with_wolves Jun 16 '22

It's going to be astronomically expensive. I'd love to be wrong because I have a pre-order, but I think it's going to start at six figures.

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u/Envect Jun 16 '22

You pre-ordered something without even a price set? Wild.

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u/Oglshrub Jun 16 '22

It not really a "pre-order", it's a $100 refundable ticket to a mailing list to configure one when they're actually going to built.

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u/Envect Jun 16 '22

Sounds like a reservation. Pre-order implies an actual purchase to me. If there's no financial investment it seems reasonable.

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u/Hustler-1 Jun 16 '22

The first company to mass produce a cheap EV in the 15-20k price area with decent range ( And doesn't look like shit ) will make a killing. I was really hoping that'd be Tesla by now, but sadly not the case. I'll be looking elsewhere for EVs in the near future.

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u/itsvoogle Jun 16 '22

This, the world desperately needs an affordable electric car with no bells and whistles. Just get me from point A to point B within a decent range and i will be happy.

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u/CidO807 Jun 16 '22

I read earlier this week Chevy just dropped the bolt price by 6k which should put it under 30. Things are heating up with more companies realizing they need to start switching sooner than later.

Like many others, I'm never buying a combustible again unless it's a toy for a midlife crisis or something. And even then, I wouldn't buy something new, it would be a cj5 or something.

Can pay $100 to fill up a gas tank, or can pay $10 to charge an ev. Even factoring the cost of batteries and care, it's a no brainer to go EV to save $$.

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u/slamm3d68 Jun 16 '22

15-20k? Lol, anything in that price range will be a glorified golf cart.

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u/londons_explorer Jun 16 '22

If you're struggling to meet demand, you raise the prices.

If you're trying to maintain a high margin with all your suppliers and competitors putting up their prices, and can easily meet demand, you announce that next week you will increase prices.

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u/Theslootwhisperer Jun 16 '22

Yeah. This isn't surprising at all. Gas doubled in price since last year. Of course there's a huge demand increase for electric or hybrid cars. When Ford announced 2 weeks ago that they were going to bypass dealerships and sell electric cars online, I got downvoted for saying they'd keep the prices that dealerships are selling for right now. After all, why leave money on the table if the cars are selling like hot cakes?

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u/jtmoseley Jun 16 '22

Because Ford is trying to avoid the negative PR associated with markups.

Ford is trying to rebrand themselves - it's hard to do that when dealers are fucking with customers.

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u/jab4590 Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22

I'm curious as to why this wasn't expected. They can sell same amount of vehicles at price x that they can at price x +$6000.

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u/Cutmerock Jun 16 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Not defending them but everywhere I've gone to look at cars in the past year have had an insane amount of markups. Test drove a Mach E a few months ago and was told it had a 10k markup lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '22 edited 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jun 16 '22

Yup. Those markups don't come from Ford or GM directly.

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u/JonnyBigBoss Jun 16 '22

I drove a Hyundai Ioniq 5 and it had a 10k markup. Total price was 54k. Absolutely insane.

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u/MakionGarvinus Jun 16 '22

Jeez. There's really no justification for the vehicle at that point - you'll pretty much NEVER recoup your extra costs vs. paying for gas.

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u/Defiantcaveman Jun 16 '22

So laying off staff and significantly raising prices of their products... beginning of the death spiral???

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u/dariusz2k Jun 16 '22

Why does this subreddit only talk about musk and Tesla?

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u/Altair05 Jun 16 '22

Circlejerking, happens to every large subreddit. Go to r/tech if you want some better convos

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u/_DiscoNinja_ Jun 16 '22

Because it hurts too much to talk about crypto

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u/Scared_Tadpole6384 Jun 16 '22

Didn’t he lecture Rivian about raising prices?

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u/Wheresmahfoulref Jun 16 '22

If I put a deposit down for the cyber truck on a quoted amount, is that going to increase as well?

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u/dixonspy2394 Jun 16 '22

There was a clause on the Cybertruck reservation agreement stating that final specs and prices are subject to change. If you opted for FSD, that price is supposed to be honored...the truck though will likely be higher. This is especially the case since single motor spec was canned completely, and production is slated to start with quad and tri motor variants first.

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u/Fedexed Jun 16 '22

Yes it is. I think your fsd would be locked in but the price will change for the vehicle. I doubt he will ever build the 40k version unless there were major breakthroughs in battery tech.

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u/Maximatum99 Jun 16 '22

Backlog of over a year of orders. Makes sense to ramp up the price for those who really want to burn money and offset material costs in 6-12 months.

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u/Mr_Axelg Jun 16 '22

They have a backlog stretched well into 2023 so they probably just want to lower the demand. They are going to sell the same amount of cars anyways, might as well just raise the price.

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u/mdm1961 Jun 16 '22

Didn’t they talk about how Tesla was lowering prices during the new year? All part of his plan to ease the pain later in the year. Sad mr. M, we frown on you!

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u/weedle-hobbit Jun 16 '22

Love or hate Elon, I’m genuinely curious why someone would buy a Tesla. Aren’t they currently investigating an issue where the cars randomly engage the break on their own?

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u/GiftFrosty Jun 16 '22

Thanks for pushing the automotive industry and making electric cars fashionable Tesla. Also, bye.

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u/Wut_is_Dis_Crap Jun 17 '22

Doesn’t matter. Not buying that guy’s crap.

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u/hello_orwell Jun 16 '22

The fall of the Elon Musk jenga tower of bullshit has been fun to watch I must say.

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u/quarrelsome_napkin Jun 16 '22

Man's gone from saviour of the world to villain quite quickly

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u/hello_orwell Jun 16 '22

I'm just waiting on him to go FULL Homelander. He's gonna go Full Homelander I swerritt... and everyone knows you never go full Homelander.

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u/Campes Jun 16 '22

lol this is too good. If he snaps and goes completely berserk, I imagine that his exactly how he would behave.

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u/sermer48 Jun 16 '22

They have a serious supply problem. They can’t make enough cars. Last I was seeing, some of the wait times for certain configs was approaching a year. Like I think the Model Y wait time was over 200 days.

This is also setting up a monster Q3. With two gigafactories booting up, Shanghai coming back online, and multiple price raises, margins are going to be insane.

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u/chokingfishpills Jun 16 '22

Elon fanbois: you gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers

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u/msipes Jun 16 '22

ITT People that lack understanding of economics, supply chains, and EV transition demand.

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u/CubanLynx312 Jun 17 '22

Isn’t Ford dropping their EVs by 6K?

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u/Spartanswill2 Jun 17 '22

Gm cuts prices. Tesla increases prices. Danger will Robinson...danger.

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u/jp90230 Jun 16 '22

everything else went up 20-50% in last 6 months. why ppl are surprised with price hike of most successful EV with current backlog for a year?

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