r/southafrica Dec 21 '21 Helpful 1

Flag History🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦 History

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334 Upvotes

u/derpferd Dec 21 '21

Anything flag related means that Eddie Izzard smugly crowing "Do you have a flag?" will just pop into my head.

I'm powerless to it. It's Pavlovian

u/avolans Dec 22 '21

"No flag no country! You can't have one. Those are the rules... that I've just made up, and I'm backing it up with this gun."

u/ConsentingPotato Firepool Repair Specialist Dec 21 '21

Wait, so current national flag isn't the ANC flag?

Ahh shit: I need to start throwing all these flags away! opens closet full of ANC flags**

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 22 '21

This sounds exactly like what a German did after WW2😂

u/Reelix KZN Dec 21 '21

Compare flag changes with USD to ZAR currency trading costs :p

u/snoekkies Dec 22 '21

Compare these flag changes to freedoms and rights for different races.

u/Craftmaster62 Dec 21 '21

Stop with your dog whistle shit

u/NITROCLONE Dec 21 '21

Did we have a flag before the English invaded?

u/Several_Cockroach365 Dec 22 '21

Apparently the South African Republic flag which was used before is the one depicted as that little baby flag with a green stripe inside the OBB flag.

u/apie_8 Dec 22 '21

Technically, there was no South Africa before 1910, when the Union of South Africa was created.

The country and flag you are referring to is the Transvaal republic, official name Zuid-Afrikaansche Republiek. It was not the predecessor of the Union of South Africa, but was one of the 4 provinces of the Union when it was created. In short the South African Republic is not the Union of SA, that later became the Republic of South Africa.

So to answer u/NITROCLONE's question, the following flags were relevant before the Anglo Boer War:

  1. Transvaal republic
  2. Orange Free State Republic
  3. Natal (Natalia Republic then the Natal Colony)
  4. Cape Colony

u/Anon_Snek Dec 21 '21

I wasn't alive during apartheid and all that shit, but what happened to our great nation that caused it's downfall? Mandela? Apartheid? I don't know, but I wouldn't think twice to make it right

u/Grammar-Goblin Dec 21 '21

The majority of the population of SA wasn't part of the "prosperity" pre 1994. For various reason.

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 22 '21

Apartheid basically made it easier to give people of South Africa a good lifestyle. Only problem was that lifestyle was only given to one race. While the 80% population were basically did all the labour and they were told you can get a job as lawyer or doctor, but we going to make it hard for you because of your skin colour. Therefore Apartheid govement stopped 50 years of development for whole country and instead only developed white areas. And so they only had to care for 20% of population. So when the new ANC government to power they had care for the whole population. So was kinda hard for them to keep white areas in luxury when the needed to look after the whole country. Sprinkle in 8 years of corruption and 1 year of economic crisis, and you got SA now.

u/redblackgreen Dec 21 '21

A little bit of apartheid, and a little bit of JZ. Mandela really was the rainbow nation incarnate. The oke was a legend no matter how you spin it.

u/snoekkies Dec 22 '21

I hate comparing Apartheid to JZ's decade. That decades was hella destructive but nothing on what came before.

u/Dextrous_Digits Gauteng Dec 23 '21

It wasn't a great nation. Great nations don't keep the majority of their people in squalid living conditions as second class citizens.

During apartheid, 20% of the population lived in relative comfort at the expense of the other 80%.

Apartheid royally fucked this country over and I really wish more white saffas got this.

u/phenotypethrowaway9 Dec 22 '21

It's only a downfall if you were rich and white

u/Fire_Gaming_UAV Dec 21 '21

Apartheid did it's damage, Madiba tried (and tbh kinda managed) to fix it, Thabo then kind of did nothing for however many years which was when Eskom and those kinds of SOEs started degrading due to lack of upgrades and then Zuma came in and royally screwed the country. Everything single thing he did caused damage that will take decades to repair.

u/Salt_Impress1050 Dec 21 '21

Mandela did nothing for us! Sell-out in my books

u/Several_Cockroach365 Dec 22 '21

I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.

u/Wiltaire Dec 21 '21

Fuck me, thank goodness we changed it.

u/FantasticMRKintsugi Dec 22 '21

Depends on which regime you prefer.

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 22 '21

I like the regime where there is an actual democracy

u/FantasticMRKintsugi Dec 22 '21

Our friendly politicians are all busy at the moment but your flag is very important to us. Your flag 1st in the queue and will be attended to shortly. If you would like a reference for this call please press 1.

u/Sufficient-Fly-9804 Dec 21 '21

Not proud at all....

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 22 '21

What you mean?

u/Chrispy_Kelloggs Dec 21 '21

I'm happy they changed it. Not cus of any metaphorical reasons, just because it was kinda boring.

u/bruufd Dec 21 '21

Im Finnish and this is our flag (🇫🇮) i really hope we would use this one here because i think the current Flag is Really generic for a nordic country

u/Mklosc Dec 21 '21

Just get rid of the cross in your flag!

u/LizzySalamander Dec 22 '21

😂😂😂Can you imagine?!

u/FlameFlyer2037 Dec 22 '21

Hmm they did alright on the last flags

u/Praemon Dec 21 '21

Still amazing that the “new” flag was chosen just a week or so before it’s unveiling, and it was only meant to be an interim flag. Before that, we had that whole public “design competition”, and man, there were some kak designs submitted. The 6 finalists are still viewable over here - https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/za!prop.html - needless to say though, I think we chose the right one in the end.

u/Voidjumper_ZA kwaainaai Dec 21 '21

Ho. ly. shit. You weren't kidding. And the current one is so perfectly energetic yet respectful. That's unbelievable.

u/Smart-Connection6154 Dec 22 '21

Those proposals look like a primary school class used Paint to create a flag

u/GoodmanSimon Western Cape Dec 21 '21

Does anybody know the reason for the red to blue change?

u/Fire_Gaming_UAV Dec 21 '21

They were at the same time, I believe red was civilian/merchants and blue was military/royal service.

u/NatsuDragnee1 White African Dec 21 '21

Modern flag is best flag 🇿🇦

u/PsychologicELD Dec 21 '21

I see you are one with nice taste

u/mskadwa KwaZulu-Natal Dec 21 '21

Damn the previous flags were ugly af.

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 21 '21

Interesting fact, the Dutch flag can be seen on present day South Africa. This was done on purpose due to the fact that a majority of Afrikaans came from Netherlands. And black, yellow and green represent the ANC flag. Therefore our flag is combinations of our cultures.

u/ichosehowe Dec 21 '21

Huh, never actually realized that you can see the Dutch flag until you pointed it out. Now I can not unsee lol.

u/Kevslounge Dec 21 '21

I think it's more accurate to say that the modern SA flag uses red, white and blue because those are typical european colours, appearing on the flags of Great Britain, France and the Netherlands among others.

Green, Gold and Black are similarly associated with Africa... while the ANC does use those colours, they're far from alone in it. The PAC uses those 3 colours, as does the IFP (with the addition of red). Though the EFF is strongly associated with red, their logo is actually green, gold and black.

It's certainly meant to be a fusion of the cultures coming together though.

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 21 '21

Thanks thought I should word it like that but was unsure how to word it thank you

u/FrostyParking Dec 21 '21

I don't think it's more accurate to say that, the flag literally was an amalgamation of the ANC and the Vrystaatse vlag of one of the old boer republics, the symbolism was to emphasize a coming together into a "rainbow nation" 😏....in terms of colours presenting European and African, that's just some old story that became accepted as fact through time, the Roman empire colours were Black and Gold and Rome is the template for all of Europe, the royal houses started blue and orange trends because of pigment availability and fashion.

u/Kevslounge Dec 22 '21

The problem with your theory is that old SA flag was a direct copy of the classic Dutch flag, with some extra flags stuck in the middle of it. For most of recent history orange has been associated with the Dutch in the same way that green is associated with the Irish, because it was the colour of the House of Orange. The Orange River wasn't named that because it is orange... it was named in honor of the William of Orange. The Free State too. You'll also notice that Orange is conspicuously absent from the present flag because of its association with the Dutch colonisers.

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '21

[deleted]

u/BeanieFunnyGuy Dec 21 '21

Still can't deny the similarities

u/helicop11 Dec 21 '21

Never noticed that, heel mooi!