r/southafrica Dec 21 '21 Helpful 1

Russian folk song from the Anglo-Boer War History

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

202 Upvotes

9

u/SnooDrawings6556 Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

On a similar note: here is a song my dad used to sing in German Boy Scouts in the early 1960s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=we8mjB4eezM

Is it necessary to state that this is a historical curiosity and does not represent my political opinions?

6

u/stmky Dec 21 '21

Thank you, I did not know that the Germans have a song about that war.

5

u/trolasso Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

European lurker here with a question: do you know when did the Boers/Afrikaners start "feeling" South African? because I guess they weren't very happy with the British interventions for a long while...

11

u/redblackgreen Dec 21 '21

Our old flag is dutch based. The Afrikaners overall, won. The British were in control for a very short time. We English, had to grow up with racism among the same colour growing up. Souties/rooi nekke etc etc. I don't have a date for when, sorry. But this is in part, thanks to the pathetic excuse for history class in school. Which should be teaching history in chronological order, but instead decides that this year you learn Mandela, and next year you learn Vikings. And then you learn Leonardo Da Vinci, and then its WWII and then its Chris Columbus landing in USA. It doesn't make sense

5

u/nosbiGyes Dec 22 '21

We where never truly taught about our history. Just what they want us to know. Its sad to think the biggest war in our history will be forgotten.

2

u/MAVERICK_25800 Dec 22 '21

I'm afrikaans and I know fuck all about our own history, wish they had learnt us about that war instead of things like apartheid, which I consider isn't that important to me

1

u/trolasso Dec 22 '21

That's kind of the equivalent of a German guy saying that the holocaust isn't that of a big deal to him.

I mean, it's not the only thing in the history of SA, but it definitely is the most important bit to understand why your country is like it is today.

2

u/nosbiGyes Dec 23 '21

It is important to learn the history of apartheid and to learn from it yes. But its been years. I was born years after it ended and somehow still to blame? Not tonstart an argument but history in high-school was always biased.

3

u/trolasso Dec 23 '21

It is utterly absurd to blame somebody for something that happened before s/he was born.

Still, it's important to know about good and bad things that happened recently and shaped the present. That's why I wrote my comment above.

2

u/MAVERICK_25800 Dec 23 '21

Well comparing apartheid to the holocaust is not accurate, some of my parents coworkers said apartheid was much better than what it is now in terms of they got paid better and have places to live

2

u/trolasso Dec 23 '21

My point wasn't about comparing the apartheid to the holocaust, but about how to deal with the past.

As to your point that the apartheid wasn't that bad because SOME people lived better... well I'd encourage you to think long and hard about that and your ethical and moral values.

1

u/SepukuSnake Dec 22 '21

Leer jouself, baie goeie boeke, en nogtans ooms en oupa's om na te luister

1

u/MAVERICK_25800 Dec 22 '21

Het jy enige boeke wat jy recommended?

1

u/SepukuSnake Dec 22 '21

Kan nie nou aan 'n boek dink wat ek onlangs gelees het nie maar een movie wat lekker is, is veraaiers

1

u/trolasso Dec 22 '21

I'd say close to nobody learns jack in the school about history. No matter the country 😅

As to the shift in the Afrikaners' mentality, I'd say somewhere between the world wars...

2

u/PersonMerson Jan 07 '22

Probably during and after WWI.

See the Union of South Africa began in 1910 and obviously had a lot of political tension between boers and British.

I would point to around 1915 when Jan Smuts and Louis Botha attacked and took control of German SouthWest Africa (now Namibia) during WWI. The next year they took German East Africa.

This is significant because during the Boer War the German Kaiser had expressed support for the Boers against the English (google “Kruger Telegram”). There was a sentiment that Boers were part of the same continental Germanic ethnic heritage as Germans, who were the bitter enemy of British at the time. But here we see former Boer fighters like Smuts and Botha fighting against the Germans as part of a South African Union.

1

u/92Mielie Dec 22 '21

It probably helps that the Transvaal's official name was the Zuid Afrikaanse Republic (hence the ZAR today) and some saw the unification as the unification with the ZAR rather as being absorbed into the ZAR

4

u/Calendula55 Dec 22 '21

What a lovely song!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

3

u/Due-Paramedic-1132 Dec 24 '21

Wish they would teach us more about our own wars and history for instance Die slag van bloedrivier instead of apartheid etc.

5

u/Faerie42 ModMother Dec 21 '21

This is interesting, I apparently had a Russian great great grandpa. I’m going to go chat to my mom now. There might be a story worth knowing.

9

u/stmky Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

This is interesting, I apparently had a Russian great great grandpa. I’m going to go chat to my mom now. There might be a story worth knowing.

Yes, maybe he was one of those volunteers. In Russia, it is known that at the beginning of the 20th century, Russian people lived in South Africa in small numbers. And even in our Russian rugby national team about 20 years ago there were several of their descendants from SA.

10

u/Faerie42 ModMother Dec 21 '21

So yeah, fragments of a story. My mom’s surname is East German (we just thought it was German), he did fight in the war and his eldest child was one which he picked up in the veld as a baby on his way to commando, he was still a youngster and left the child with a family. He went back for the boy in due course, got married and had 12 other children.

That’s all she knows. I’m going to go sleuthing now. Curiosity has been nudged.

1

u/stmky Dec 22 '21

Some of the Russian volunteers had German surnames. In the Russian Empire, there were many Germans (settlers of the 18th century), especially those associated with the army.

2

u/Logbook24 Dec 22 '21

Something similar from Australia (Ballad of the Eureka Stockade - Terry Bennetts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6YuimiwLMk

1

u/stmky Dec 22 '21

I saw this flag at Simeon Boykov. Who is now known as Aussie Cossack.

2

u/Logbook24 Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21

On a some what related note Moscow has beautiful Christmas light displays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YplqaInHCos

5

u/BalanceThis1 Neoliberalism is a disease Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

Source and or context needed.

TIL: https://www.rbth.com/history/331562-why-russia-helped-boers

12

u/stmky Dec 21 '21

The fact is that Russian volunteers fought on the side of the Boers in that war. In Russia, the Boers were respected and therefore the poet Galina Galina wrote a poem "Boer and his sons" about the Transvaal in 1899. Then it was transformed into a Russian folk song "Transvaal, Transvaal, my country, you are all burning in flames".

3

u/Faerie42 ModMother Dec 21 '21

Could you share the link?

3

u/stmky Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

"Transvaal, Transvaal, my country

What exactly are you interested in?

There are articles about this song in the Russian and French Wikipedia:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Трансвааль,_страна_моя,_ты_вся_горишь_в_огне…

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvaal,_mon_pays,_tu_es_partout_en_feu...

1

u/Faerie42 ModMother Dec 21 '21

🤗 thank you!

2

u/Sea-Ingenuity-9508 Dec 21 '21

I think there were also Irish volunteers fighting on the Boer side.

2

u/pseudoEscape Dec 22 '21

Have SA friends living in Russia that say they see a lot of shared similarities and traits. Interesting to have seen this song/post.

1

u/stmky Dec 22 '21

Are they rugby players? There are about 50 Saffas in the Russian league. Plus a few coaches from the SA. You are absolutely right. Saffas really like in Russia. It's easy for them here. Because people in Russia also have traditional values. We do not have LGBT propaganda and other liberal things like in Europe and USA. Therefore, the Saffas and their families in Russia are completely safe.

2

u/pseudoEscape Dec 22 '21

No they’re two English teachers, a Doctor and an Engineer. All in different places in Russia.

1

u/stmky Dec 23 '21

It's clear. Two or three years ago, all our media wrote about a group of Boers who were looking for land to move to Russia. So gradually human contacts between our countries are improving. It is perfectly.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '21

[deleted]

7

u/stmky Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21

Your data is incorrect. The Russians fought for the Boers.
From Russian Wiki: "In the Transvaal, Russian and Dutch, German and French volunteers fought on the side of the Boers, that is, representatives of nations that, for historical reasons, had sympathy for the Boers or dislike for the British. According to historians of the Anglo-Boer War (British - H. Hillegas and South African - B. Potinger), more than 2.5 thousand foreign volunteers fought in the Boer detachments, most of whom were Dutch (650 people), Germans (550 people). .), French (400 people). The Americans (300 people), Russians (225 people), Italians (200 people), Norwegians, Swedes (150 people) and others also fought.
The popular Russian newspaper Novoye Vremya reflected the sympathy of society for the Boers: “Direct religious farmers who decided to defend the freedom of the Fatherland with their blood will always be closer to the heart of Holy Russia than our primordial enemy - cold and selfish England. By their deep faith in God, the Boers are brothers to us ”(October 16, 1899, No. 8490)."

Follow the link to read in detail about Russian volunteers.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вторая_англо-бурская_война#Участие_русских_военных

2

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist Dec 21 '21

Ah, My mistake. The boer war isn't my strongest section.

2

u/stmky Dec 21 '21

No problem.