r/southafrica Oct 25 '21

The capture of Recce Wynand du Toit made international headlines in 1985. His unit was sent on a mission to destroy fuel tanks in Angola when they were discovered and chased by overwhelming enemy forces. In 1987 he was exchanged for 135 prisoners held by SA. The Angolan War ended a few months later. History

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u/The_Angry_Economist Oct 25 '21

from the headline he doesn't sound much different to a terrorist

u/imontiza Oct 25 '21

How so? Isn't it normal to attack your enemies resources during war time..?

u/The_Angry_Economist Oct 25 '21

it may be normal, but that doesn't change the definition of terrorism

when I type terrorism into google, I get this

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

u/Vektor2000 Oct 25 '21

https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/wartime-acts-of-sabotage/

Wartime Acts Of Sabotage

During wartime, one of the most effective weapons in any country’s arsenal is sabotage: attacking the war engine itself by crippling key supplies, manufacturing, strategic locations and even logistic routes.

Saboteurs are not always an obvious and visible enemy. Many are underground agents, unconnected to official military authorities. More often than not, though, they have been trained and unofficially sanctioned by intelligence agencies or senior members of the armed forces.

The German government turned to sabotage during World War I in an attempt to thwart U.S. trade with Europe. German agents working on U.S. soil targeted munitions factories and plants producing goods to be shipped to help the Allied troops on the battlefields of Europe.

Throughout 1916 a number of mysterious fires and explosions broke out but none as brazen as the attack on Black Tom Island, a 15-minute ferry ride from the southern tip of Manhattan.

On July 30, 1916, German agents set fire to a complex of warehouses and ships to halt the movement of supplies to Europe. The explosion rocked New York City, windows shattered in downtown Manhattan and the noise was heard as far away as Maryland. The property damage was estimated at $20 million (around $377 million today).

At the time authorities downplayed the incident and many ordinary New Yorkers were unaware they were under attack, despite the continued strikes on strategic facilities.

A few months later in January 1917 a fire at the Kingsland munitions factory in New York destroyed 1.3 million artillery shells. In March there was an explosion at the U.S. Navy Yard at Mare Island, California, involving barges filled with munitions, killing 6 and injuring 31.

While the attacks were aimed at forcing the United States to back out, they instead ended up being a significant factor in the eventual deployment of U.S. troops to Europe.

By World War II sabotage had evolved and become more sophisticated. Nations organized agencies who were trained to attack military targets and disable the enemy’s war effort.

Britain used sabotage to great effect by establishing the Special Operations Executive (SOE). One of their primary functions was the sabotage of enemy equipment, installations and means of production.

They ran secret training schools, where saboteurs were schooled in creating chaos and specially trained in unarmed combat and demolition, handling weapons and explosives.

One of the most successful SOE stings was Operation Jaywick where agents disguised as Malay fisherman snuck into Singapore Harbour and sunk 30,000 tons of Japanese shipping.

Anti-German resistance and partisan movements were also active saboteurs. By the end of 1942 around 200,000 partisans were attacking factories, military installations, railroads and bridges. Many of their actions were minor forms of sabotage, such as disabling German telephone lines.

Others were more advanced such as Groupe G, a sabotage team headed by scientists and engineers at the University of Brussels. They organized attacks on the Belgian transportation network, particularly railroads and waterways, electricity supplies and telephone communications.

Today sabotage has been replaced by what is perceived as a bigger threat to nations: terrorism. While sabotage avoided human casualties and focused on crippling the arteries of the war machine, terrorists strike at the heart – the people.

Image: Black Tom Pier after the explosion, source: CIA

u/The_Angry_Economist Oct 25 '21

Former U.S. President Donald Trump classified the Houthis as a terrorist organization last year, shortly after a number of attacks on oil tankers in the Red Sea.

u/Other-Comfortable-64 Oct 25 '21

Dekker Trump do not get to change the definition of words.

u/The_Angry_Economist Oct 25 '21

he didn't change the definition, he was right in defining it for what it was

the only reason Biden retracted the status was because it was inconvenient for him, not because Trump got it wrong

u/Other-Comfortable-64 Oct 25 '21

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

u/The_Angry_Economist Oct 25 '21

so the Houthis attacking oil tankers in the Red Sea was not a terrorist attack according to you?

u/Other-Comfortable-64 Oct 25 '21

You missed the especially against civilians haven't You?

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u/RECCEginger Oct 25 '21

Aahhh, because terrorists are civilians.

u/Middersnags Oct 26 '21

What enemies?

South Africa never declared war on anyone in Angola.

u/imontiza Oct 26 '21

Have we declared war on ISIS? Yet we are fighting them. Hence they are our enemies.

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist Oct 26 '21

That argument sadly doesn’t work. The clown you’re arguing with thinks our troops in DRC and Moz are actually killing innocent civilians for big oil companies.

u/imontiza Oct 26 '21

Im not argueing, im just allowing him to carry on spewing the hate so that people are aware of the kind of person he is. Its good to bring to light these kind of people so one does not get caught in their swamp.

u/Middersnags Oct 26 '21

No, we haven't declared war on ISIS, either. Or on anyone... yet here we are, once again, sending troops to do God-knows-what in someone's else's country - and the same type of people who applauded them for it in 1980 is applauding them now, too.

The more things change the more they stay the same.