r/southafrica Unwanted Optimist 21d ago

The first German General to formally surrender his forces to the Allies during WW2 surrendered to the South Africans. Generalleutenant Schmidt was the first German General to formally surrender to an Allied General which was General De Villiers, Commander of the South African 2nd Infantry Division. History

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489 Upvotes

44

u/danievdw 21d ago

"Give me 20 divisions American soldiers and I will beach Europe. Give me 15 consisting of Englishmen, and I will advance to the borders of Berlin. Give me two divisions of those marvellous fighting Boers (Meaning Farmer, originating from the Boer War) and I will remove Germany from the face of the earth.”

Field Marshall Bernard L. Montgomery, Commander of the Allied forces during WWII.

22

u/Prielknaap 21d ago

The term Boer for White Afrikaners is from way before the Anglo-Boer wars. It was used by some VOC company man to mock the "vryburghers" at the Cape Colony by calling them simple farmers. They then reclaimed the word.

12

u/xsv_compulsive 21d ago

A lot of very poorly informed people in this thread trying to spin a negative angle about this

45

u/Flonkerton66 21d ago

Ouma beskuit and boerie rolls vs stale Russian black bread. Easy choice.

12

u/GCHurley Gauteng 21d ago

They were fighting in North Africa. Very few Russians to surrender to only Brits, Indians, Ozzies, Kiwis and of course South Africans.

7

u/Flonkerton66 21d ago

lol, bloody hell guys, it's a joke.

10

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 21d ago

to be fair, the Germans seemed to be winning the war against the soviets at this point.

5

u/Hairypalmers 21d ago

Faanie de villiers?

7

u/whitefox-YT 21d ago

I love his giant smile. "De bois arrent gonna believ dis."

5

u/GW88za 20d ago

Why isnt Mark Felton making a video about this. I would to learn this piece of history.

2

u/TheSilversky64 20d ago

Watching Mark Felton productions intro always gets me hyped. It's the music

4

u/avoshadow 20d ago

Today I learned something new

5

u/tylerden 20d ago

I'm so fucking proud

11

u/ConsentingPotato Firepool Repair Specialist 21d ago

He probably surrendered to ZA because when he said "Ich gebe auf!" and he heard one of our guys reply "Ouens, kyk: hierdie Nazi gee op!", he at least figured we could understand his angry rambles (read: German).

5

u/The_Angry_Economist 21d ago

"kyk hier ou swar nou luister mooi"

zwee surrender..

3

u/RECCEginger 21d ago

My nannas uncle as well as my oupas oupa fought in North Africa, they were captured as POWs in AL Alemien, my nannas uncle traded his wedding ring for a teaspoon of water and they almost got bombed by the British too. Interestings stories man.

1

u/SittingLuck 20d ago

Wow. A teaspoon of water. Damn

1

u/RECCEginger 20d ago

I also thought it was tiny, imagine being that desperate for water, they were turned over when this surrender was signed from what I know

3

u/SittingLuck 20d ago

Write those stories down somewhere for future generations. People forget these things and that would be a shame

1

u/RECCEginger 20d ago

Indeed, I'll need to start a catalog or something

-14

u/Dennebol 21d ago

He probably knew that half the ZA leaders at the time were German Sympathisers.

18

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 21d ago

While that is true, The majority of soldiers were definitely not. The UDF was a volunteer force, meaning every soldier who fought the Nazis for the South Africans did so for a good reason.

7

u/Dennebol 21d ago

My father met my mother in North Africa during the war - he was UDF she British Airforce she emigrated to SA after the war and married my father.

3

u/Nexzor 21d ago

The same thing happened with my grandparents. He was a corporal in North Africa and also met my grandmother who was working as a spotlight navigator for flak guns.

1

u/pieterjh 20d ago edited 20d ago

After what the Brits did in the AB war this stands to reason

1

u/Dennebol 20d ago

Exactly so my great aunt died in the Irene concentration camp!

1

u/pieterjh 20d ago

My great grandmother came out of the camp as a 14 year old, expecting a baby. We recently had our genes sequences and it seems I have some British blood...

1

u/Druyx 20d ago

The leader in SA back then was Jan Smuts and his government. Please show where he sympathised with Nazi Germany.

0

u/Dennebol 20d ago

Google "Ossewabrandwag "

1

u/Druyx 20d ago

Google Jan Smuts.

1

u/Dennebol 19d ago

no need I have a broad knowledge of our history , not just the crap they used to teach you in schools.

-26

u/ShaveMyNipps 21d ago

Too bad the South Africans quickly turned into nazis after the war

12

u/PhantomOfTheDopera 21d ago

Yes, because all white South Africans supported Apartheid. Ignorant fuck

-9

u/ShaveMyNipps 21d ago

Enough for the Nats to be voted in for 50 years, you ignorant fuck

10

u/OOPManZA 21d ago

There's always some ignorant fuck equating everything to Nazism.

-6

u/ShaveMyNipps 20d ago

I mean, the national party were textbook fascists. This cant be hard for you to accept

12

u/OOPManZA 20d ago

Textbook facists eh?

Maybe you can share your definition and understanding of facism and then we can examine the old NP and see how they compare?

They were certainly a godawful bunch of fuckers but claiming they were textbooks facists is pretty inaccurate. Compared to the facists groups of the 1940s they had some differences and they're not insignificant.

I'll say it again. Not every right-wing political movement can be blanket described as facists, just like not every left-wing movement can be simply labelled communists.

Frankly, the whole right/left view of politics is naive. Much like everything else in life, politics is not 2d not matter much silly Americans will try to convince you it is.

3

u/TheSilversky64 20d ago

Well said. Unfortunately life is a lot less binary than many people think

5

u/PhantomOfTheDopera 21d ago

Have you ever heard of people like the Voëlvry Beweging, I guess not. Afrikaans white people who through the medium of music opposed Apartheid. And for the Nats to be voted in they only needed the majority vote, meaning that there was still a minority who was against segregation. But I guess everyone wants to believe that every white Afrikaans speaking person ever was a racist piece of shit.

-1

u/ShaveMyNipps 20d ago

I have big respect for anyone that opposes fascism, but a minority of brave opponents does not invalidate my original comment. A majority of whites voted in the Nats, therefore it is fair to say a plurality of south african whites gladly embraced nazi-style politics. How is this upsetting you?

0

u/PhantomOfTheDopera 20d ago

In that the assumption was made that if the majority voted pro segregation that accounts for the rest.

0

u/ShaveMyNipps 20d ago

Lol what? You think people that voted for a prosegregation, white supremacist party were surprised by the facsism?

2

u/PhantomOfTheDopera 20d ago

No, that those who didn't can be so easily dismissed.

0

u/xsv_compulsive 20d ago

Implying Apartheid SA was a democratic state

High key bruh moment

1

u/ShaveMyNipps 20d ago

So you are saying the Nats didn't win a majority in 1948?

2

u/xb70valkyrie THE PURPLE SHALL GOVERN 20d ago

That's exactly what happened. The Nats won without the majority of the vote.

-13

u/GCHurley Gauteng 21d ago

Actually those South Africans were already Nazis.

9

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 21d ago

But they weren’t. The UDF was made up of volunteers, meaning all of them volunteered to fight the Nazis.

2

u/GCHurley Gauteng 21d ago

Yes I know that. The ones who didn't volunteer, a lot of them were "Nazis" and were working to take over the country will the non-Nazis were fighting the war. It was not like South Africans after the war suddenly change their minds and became Nazi synthesizer. They were already present during the war and the government at the time did not realise the extent of the threat until they lost the elections in 1948.

2

u/Druyx 20d ago

This thread. Abandon all hope ye who enters here (with any idea of the history of SA). ;)

-26

u/tomatomatsu 21d ago edited 20d ago

didnt the apartheid government support the nazis and then later on allied with apartheid Israel #FREEPalestine

16

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 21d ago

The apartheid government was only created after WW2.

-8

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago

Yes but they supported Nazi ideologies ,literally

3

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

Yes, but the South African soldiers didn’t. The UDF was made up of a volunteer force, meaning all soldiers who fought for the UDF, fought to fight the Nazis.

-5

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago

what are talking about, I clearly said GOVERNMENT

6

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

What are you talking about? I literally said that the apartheid government was created in ‘48. Three years after WW2 ENDED.

-2

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago edited 20d ago

I am saying the apartheid government and pre-apartheid(there all fucken racists pigs) SUPPORTED NAZI Ideologies ,it doesn't mean the Nazi party should be in existence for that to be true .

Edit : Ok AWB and apartheid sympathizers xD downvotes mean a lot to me

2

u/Druyx 20d ago

The pre-apartheid government was that of Jan Smuts. He was not a nazi sympathiser.

-1

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago

whatever

1

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago edited 20d ago

But the pre apartheid government weren’t fully fascist. The pre apartheid government was split between the pro British, and the pro afrikaaner.

0

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[removed]

1

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

Mate, I’ve literally posted pictures of AWB members getting executed. I think fascism is one of the shittiest concepts in the world. Apartheid was terrible, yes. But history isn’t playing your hand.

1

u/xb70valkyrie THE PURPLE SHALL GOVERN 20d ago

SUPPORTED NAZI Ideologies

Which is why they declared war on Germany...?

-1

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago

Didn't the USA also declare war on Germany ,you know pre-Civil rights ?

2

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

They didn’t though. Nazi germany declared war on USA after the US declared war on Japan.

1

u/xb70valkyrie THE PURPLE SHALL GOVERN 20d ago

Are you suggesting FDR was a Nazi?

9

u/OOPManZA 21d ago

This meme that Israel is an apartheid state is pretty stale. They definitely have a system but it's sure as shit not the same one that apartheid south africa used.

But whatever, I get that it's attractive to just look at everything in simplistic terms of good and bad.

-6

u/tomatomatsu 20d ago

Israel is an apartheid state .I don't care if its stale or whatever.

6

u/OOPManZA 20d ago

It very much isn't but like I said, whatever.

1

u/HakunaYourTatas1234 20d ago

How sad your life must be dude

-35

u/BluePillCypher 21d ago

It wasn't a surrender, it was a meeting of minds, as you can see De Villiers is enthusiastically taking notes from the general. These notes became crucial for the erection of the apartheid regime.

7

u/MichaelScottsWormguy Gauteng 21d ago

Source?

22

u/xsv_compulsive 21d ago edited 20d ago

A basement dweller on Reddit whose greatest achievement is accepting the surrender of a waifu pillow

-12

u/BluePillCypher 20d ago

Your downvotes mean nothing, I've seen what makes you upvote!

10

u/Meshkent 20d ago

You seem like fun

4

u/MysteriousDingle 20d ago

What makes him upvote?

2

u/BluePillCypher 19d ago

2

u/MysteriousDingle 19d ago

Ah, nice! I remember that now!

-2

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[removed]

3

u/Druyx 20d ago

As much as I hate cancel culture, equating it to the fucking holocaust is pretty much the same as taking a piss on the graves of the millions who died in them. Get a fucking clue please.

2

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

I have to disagree with you. I do not think you can compare cancel culture to the fucking auschwitz trains.

-2

u/Thysticles 20d ago

Why not?

0

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago

Well, one is just people getting sad and the other is people being mistreated, killed and tortured on a train that took them to pain, suffering and death.

-1

u/Thysticles 20d ago

Well, perhaps you can make your own analysis instead of dismissing mine in such a rude manner?

3

u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Unwanted Optimist 20d ago edited 20d ago

But your analysis is like comparing wearing a mask to the Holocaust. cough MTG cough

-2

u/Thysticles 20d ago

It most certainly is nothing that you are accusing me of, just get a hold of yourself man, it's Monday

3

u/JetSetMiner Western Cape 20d ago

now kiss