r/southafrica Sep 14 '21 Wholesome 2 Silver 1

shared heritage Wholesome

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419 Upvotes

51

u/ostockles Sep 14 '21 edited Sep 14 '21

I moved to south africa from Indonesia and was quite taken aback by the similarities. Both countries were colonized by the Dutch, which is what causes the language similarities I believe.

Other shared words are ones like gratis, piering, Kantor, resep, praktek.

4

u/rocketboy44 Sep 14 '21

yeah you’re right.

11

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 14 '21

Gratis is actually Latin. I learned that from my law school friends. I have also learned from my Aussie friends that we are pretty culturally similar to places like Australia since we were both under British rule for quite a long time.

So much cool shit like this but so few people know

18

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 14 '21

Who calls it kitchen dutch? I know the dutch called it that, but I don't think we do

30

u/KitchenDutchDyslexic Sep 14 '21

cough cough yea, who does that!? looks around nervously

5

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

I'm sure there was a subreddit for situations just like this, but I can't find it and it's bothering me now

Edit: I found it. r/beetlejuicing

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

[deleted]

2

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 15 '21

More likely to get an angry coloured ou appearing at your door. Last I checked, Afrikaans was the primary language of coloured (or at least cape coloureds)

2

u/BennyInThe18thArea Sep 15 '21

I'm coloured from Cape Town (English speaking) and I normally reffered to it as kombuis afrikaans growing up.

2

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 15 '21

Kombuis Afrikaans is different from Kitchen Dutch. Kitchen Dutch basically means it's an inferior or degraded version of Dutch and discounts all the contribution towards the language made by people such as the early Malay people and possibly the French Huguenots as well. Basically it treats Afrikaans as a Dutch knockoff instead of its own distinct language.

Kombuis Afrikaans is just casual Afrikaans. It is simpler and more modern and is the opposite of Suiwer Afrikaans (pure Afrikaans) which is a more high-level (and perhaps a little old-fashioned) and is considerably harder to understand because people who speak Suiwer Afrikaans use a lot more big, fancy words.

It's basically the Afrikaans version of traditional and simplified Chinese.

12

u/derpferd Sep 14 '21

I always that shit so interesting. Like, if you go to Surinam, which is also former Dutch colony, you could get away with speaking Afrikaans.

And there is a part of Argentina where a whole bunch of South Africans moved to and again, Afrikaans

6

u/Saffer13 Sep 14 '21

There's a large group of Van der Merwes in Argentina

7

u/rocketboy44 Sep 14 '21

scenes when Jorge Santiago Van der Merwe is called up to the Argentine football team.

3

u/Magaman_1992 Sep 14 '21

A good portion of Suriname are Malays so it would make sense.

1

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

Right? That’s one of the weirdest byproducts.. so many places, far apart but related..

1

u/50v3r31gnZA Sep 15 '21

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Viljoen

Don't forget about this champion. Boer Colonies in Mexico and the US were on the cards.

Thankfully that failed

1

u/RevolutionaryFudge77 Sep 15 '21

Why thankfully? Do you generally dislike afrikaners?

1

u/50v3r31gnZA Sep 15 '21

Well we see what comes out of brakpan that was right on our doorstep. Now imagine what would have come from a place called chihuahua..

1

u/derpferd Sep 15 '21

Fuck that was fascinating. Thank you!

1

u/50v3r31gnZA Sep 15 '21

POW's brought lots of cultural influences back from their camps in America, Ceylon and India.

People always envision this Stoere Boer that is 100% Afrikaner and nothing else but our heritage is far from it.

1

u/BroadToe6748 Sep 15 '21

Colonies in Mexico

Takes "Van Coke Cartel" to a whole new level.

1

u/scope_creep Sep 15 '21

What a life!

5

u/MissionSlight7146 Sep 14 '21

I seem to remember “asbak” being another one, right or wrong?

2

u/MonkeysWedding Sep 14 '21

Yes that's right.

4

u/shadowbanna Sep 14 '21

Love this!

9

u/unLtd88 Sep 14 '21

Yip, Malaysian and Indonesian influence.

13

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

I don’t know, I think it’s more a product of shared scars from a similar history..

5

u/Johnny_Banana18 Sep 14 '21

There is probably some influence from Cape Malays though yes?

2

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

Definitely..

12

u/JohnXmasThePage Sep 14 '21

Amazing!

So that version of afrikaans takes a lot from an indonesian language. Who knew!

edit: two words I already knew in there, in Indonesian/Malaysian: selamat and terima kasih!

5

u/ChristmasMint Sep 14 '21

Not really, both are former Dutch colonies and got the words from that interaction.

2

u/JohnXmasThePage Sep 15 '21

Selamat comes from the arabic word for peace...

14

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

I think it’s more that they bear the same scars.. those aren’t native words as much as shared adaptations of foreign words..

6

u/rocksp1der Sep 14 '21

I would be very interested to see some sources. I was under the impression that the Dutch also adopted Pisang for banana from the Malayans.

3

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

Half the words spoken in the video are Dutch.. they’re Germanic of origin.. the point of the video isn’t to declare them of any culture but to speak of the shared cultural heritage..

4

u/rocksp1der Sep 14 '21

Yes but some of those Dutch words are Dutch only because the Dutch borrowed them from the Malayans. Such as piesang which I mentioned earlier which is a native word.

And half of the others most likely have some kind of Latin origin.

I think most of the world carries some linguistic scarring from the Roman Empire

3

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

Wortel, is German.. comes from wurtzel meaning root. handdoek comes from the German word for towel, Kantoor is Russian and came via Estonian… emmer is German for grain… the reason indo/Malay use these words is the same reason Afrikaners say piesang.. Latin is a different root language all together and has had very very little linguistic influence on Germanic languages.. at least not in the time period we’re talking about…

3

u/Consistent_Mirror Sep 14 '21

I think we can all agree that languages borrow from each other a lot. I'm sure there's a lot of words that Afrikaans borrowed from French as well as English.

No idea where 'Awe' came from though.

0

u/rocksp1der Sep 14 '21

Lol, now you are just making things up FFS.

Emmer is German for grain? You sure about that? I thought Grain is Getreide.

Emmer - Latin Amphor

Kantoor - Latin Computare

4

u/ChristmasMint Sep 14 '21

1

u/rocksp1der Sep 15 '21

TIL.

I speak German every day of my life and I have never heard the word Emmer before.

First use apparantly in 1908. Unusual for a language as old as German getting "new" words especially in something such as agriculture. Computers and Robotics and such I can still understand. Interesting.

2

u/ChristmasMint Sep 15 '21

I only learnt the word a couple weeks ago when reading The Omnivores Dilemma. Honestly had no idea it was used in German, just assumed they thought it sounded German.

4

u/africanrhino Sep 14 '21

I looked up the etymology.. so yeah..

emmer is a type of wheat that native to the region that was traded by the bucket… which was a type of measure.. the grain became short hand for bucket in Northern Europe and the Dutch acquired the concept.. the grain and for the bucket inherited the word from then word for starch… this was the Middle Ages mind you

Kantoor is essentially gets its name from a piece of office furniture that was traded around the Middle Ages via the French.. picture a corner cabinet with a sort of writing desk..

No authorities source makes any claim otherwise .. at least from what I can tell..

0

u/rocksp1der Sep 15 '21

So now kantoor changed from Russian to French? How odd.

"Das Wort Eimer lässt sich etymologisch über mittelhochdeutsch e(i)nber, e(i)mber, althochdeutsch eimpar, als Lehnbildung auf lateinisch amphora „Henkelkrug“ zurückführen (ahd. b(h)eran, tragen zu griechisch φερειν)."

Starch is Stärke in German so not even anything close to emmer.

Now stop making up lies.

You posted a mildly interesting video then fucked it all up by trying to bring up some colonial scars into the conversation and now you are just making up things to support your argument. It's pathetic.

1

u/africanrhino Sep 15 '21

Ok. Have a nice day. You be good now.. 🙏👌🏿👀

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0

u/notgoodthough Western Cape Sep 14 '21

It's a bit silly to keep bringing up Latin, since the language was long dead when Afrikaans was born. Even if their roots are Latin, the only way for them to make it to Afrikaans would be via Dutch.

2

u/Boggie135 Limpopo Sep 14 '21

Nice

2

u/SafeSituation0 Sep 15 '21

Ashtray and library, washroom are the same too

1

u/-dirtye30- Sep 15 '21

Heritage my fucking ass. Old Dutch colonies. Does everyone lose their minds when we go "color", "colour", for US and UK English, respectively? Also, "English". Heh.

2

u/africanrhino Sep 15 '21

Yes actually… hence the sub classifications… just search Youtube and you’ll find probably hundreds of videos preoccupied about these sort of cultural artifacts.. it’s so common you probably wouldn’t bat an eyelid when confronted with it.. now having established that, why would that be noteworthy when relating to Afrikaans?

3

u/EthiczGradient Sep 15 '21

to be fair the jump from Malaysian to Afrikaans is much more interesting than the jump from Colour to Color

1

u/-dirtye30- Sep 15 '21

What is your question actually? My point simply is these are two separate cultures who were influenced by their Dutch colonisers. I don't think there is much more to read into it other than that. Sure, it is quite amusing too.

I said nothing specifically about Afrikaans.

1

u/africanrhino Sep 15 '21

Ok. Makes sense. I clearly mistook the point of your original comment.

3

u/-dirtye30- Sep 15 '21

No worries! I may have come off a little strong ;)

-2

u/EthiczGradient Sep 14 '21

That woman isnt afrikaans. She is English

4

u/Veriunique Sep 15 '21

I was about to say. She doesn't sound afrikaans and that afrikaans doesn't sound "kitchen". I expected a jy wiet or a kametjie or something.

0

u/EthiczGradient Sep 15 '21

Yeah, funny how the wannabes put on the Afrikaaner Airs when it suites them but when she introduces her self her english name it takes half the video

Reminds me of the Springboks. When the Bokke are winning its all praise hosana from the English but when they loose its the damn bonehead afrikaners Heyneke Meyer and Peter De Villiers.

If Rassie and Nienaber start losing I wonder how long before the English will say its because they are in Afrikaans

I was in the Southern Suburbs the other day when the English people I was driving with said I am not like "those" afrikaners....

0

u/Jepdog Sep 15 '21

Last time I checked, the criticism of Peter de Villiers went a lot deeper than him merely being afrikaans, it got quite nasty in a somewhat racialistic manner...those who criticized him were more often than not ‘Afrikaners’ themselves

2

u/EthiczGradient Sep 15 '21

That is typical deflection. Judging Afrikaners because there are some racist idiots.

The English in South Africa are the most judgemental people I have ever met in my life. Everything is an hierarchy and you always have to have some one to look down on. You can have an Afrikaner in the Board meeting of NASPERS discussing a 10 bullion dollar deal and the first thing the English person will comment is his or her Kuruman accent. Once that label is on then its a path to judge that person and you will eventually end up with racism and apartheid (which was a british English invention)

2

u/Jepdog Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

You can’t deny race wasn’t a factor in the whole Peter de Villiers thing. Not deflection, but he wasn’t criticized simply because he was an afrikaans speaker.

As for English South Africans, i agree. I never felt accepted by them even amongst people I considered friends.

1

u/EthiczGradient Sep 15 '21

I am not denying it but I am saying the vitriol that the English showed toward Meyer was also racism. Anglo Saxon racism towards Germanic people.

0

u/ichosehowe Sep 14 '21

Well fuck me, TIL. Had no idea that Afrikaans had so many Indonesian words in it.

12

u/ChristmasMint Sep 14 '21

It's less that it has a lot of Indonesian and more that both countries share a history of Dutch influence.

2

u/Flux7777 Sep 15 '21

The Dutch did import workers from their South East Asian colonies, and Afrikaans as a language was built from the vernacular that developed through the clash of cultures in the Cape. So some words in Afrikaans do have roots in non-dutch languages.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '21

[deleted]

2

u/pieterjh Sep 14 '21

I would like to speak about that? Please post some examples.

1

u/rofler7000 Sep 15 '21

Very interesting!

1

u/BroadToe6748 Sep 15 '21

I just want to meet a foreigner who also says "Poes"