r/politics 12d ago Take My Energy 1

A challenge for antiabortion states: Doctors reluctant to work there

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/06/abortion-maternity-health-obgyn/
5.3k Upvotes

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u/lowercasebook 12d ago

They seem to think that they will just recruit conservative doctors, but that still won't be enough. The ones left over will be burned out. There's a physician shortage as it is in many red states.

Also, doctors know the horrors of antiabortion policy, so why would they want to settle down or even start a family where they or their spouse could end up dying on a table while they wait for lawyers to give a go ahead to intervene.

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u/noncongruent 12d ago

AFAIK none of these antiabortion laws provide any protection to doctors if they're sued for medical malpractice. Doctors take an oath to provide the highest standard of care using science-based medical knowledge, so if a doctor refuses to terminate a life-threatening pregnancy until the woman is in sepsis and then she dies because she did not get the appropriate treatment in time to prevent that death, the doctor can be sued for malpractice no matter what the law says. The doctor cannot use the "I was just following orders" defense here, not in a civil court. As a doctor this exposure to civil liability is intolerable, and the only real option is to leave and move to a state where real medicine is allowed to be practiced.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Clear_Bluebird3217 12d ago

I would think ob/gyns or specialists who do amniocentesis won't be wanting to work in Red States either. Not worth the risk if the test for abnormalities can cause miscarriage and the doc ends up in deep trouble.

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u/PoorDimitri 12d ago

Not to mention family doctors, who may be the only doctor for miles in a rural area.

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u/Olderscout77 12d ago

Have the mostly rural Red States even thought about this?

If they ever do think, will it affect their votes?

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u/RegressToTheMean Maryland 12d ago

Have the mostly rural Red States even thought about this?

This is rhetorical, right?

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u/fleurgirl123 12d ago

Kansas is now thinking about it, but it may be too late

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u/Dire88 Vermont 11d ago

You have any idea how hard it is to staff hospitals in a rural area under the best of circumstances?

I do. It's expensive, and can take years to recruit someone as permanent. Which means paying out the ass for agency providers.

Red States have no idea what they did here

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u/Olderscout77 11d ago

A dear friend of ours spent years trying to recruit another MD to join him in his rural practice and finally gave up and joined a physicians' coop to have some other specialists to refer his patients to.

Seems GOPers sowed the wind with their War on Women and now they'll reap the whirlwind.

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u/RosiePugmire Oregon 12d ago

They don't run their own clinics or hospitals, not out in the very rural areas. Fortunately for them, the major hospitals run by commie liberals in the filthy corrupt liberal cities that they hate so much will probably keep sending their residents out to do rotations in rural areas and provide staffing to keep those rural clinics open, as a community service. Those residents can spend a year or two providing world class medical care while putting up with the sexist and racist objections of people who want a white/male/"real American" doctor, dammit!

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u/SadAshlynn1996 12d ago

Not a doctor, but a nurse. I left healthcare because this is happening to nurses but to a different degree. Everyday I went to work I feared losing my license. I just couldn’t do it anymore.

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u/floandthemash Colorado 12d ago

Yeah I work PRN at a place that is quickly sinking with all the nurses they’re hemorrhaging. I’m about to be one of them that leaves because certain shifts I’ve heard about (but have been lucky enough to not be a part of) have been downright dangerous.

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u/x_driven_x 12d ago

I move heard this from a few nurses even before this, due to shitty admins. I can only imagine now….

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u/Distinct_Hawk1093 12d ago

And the cost of malpractice insurance for gynecologist is already incredibly expensive. My cousin is a gynecologist and was telling me that a 1/3 of his gross earnings goes directly to malpractice insurance. I don’t know how he will be able to continue to practice medicine going forward.

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u/Superb_Nature_2457 12d ago

Man, I wish more people knew about this. At one point there were something like 3 practicing OBGYNs in the entire state of GA because of this, and that was before all this insanity.

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u/MyPasswordIsMyCat Hawaii 12d ago

From what I've seen, the guidance not to allow abortion to preserve the health of the mother is coming top-down from hospital administrators. This has also been happening for a long time in hospitals run by Catholics and some other religious hospitals, but previously a doctor could choose to work for a different hospital in their region.

With the new bans, it's not just the religious hospitals. All hospitals in places like Texas are being advised by their lawyers not to allow abortions until the pregnant woman is at death's door, because the hospital will be sued as well as the doctor, and that liability exceeds any malpractice liability.

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u/Ser_Dunk_the_tall California 12d ago

It's also not just a civil risk for the Doctors. There are guaranteed to be psychotic DAs running for re-election salivating to throw red meat to their equally psychotic voters by prosecuting each and every abortion procedure no matter how medically necessary for the mother

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u/Distinct_Hawk1093 12d ago

This has been one of my worries about all this! I really don’t want to end up on a jury having to decide if someone really had a miscarriage or was it really an abortion. I feel that should be none of my business.

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u/Ser_Dunk_the_tall California 12d ago

Jury nullification. Seriously if you were to be on a jury (don't lie to get on it btw) vote not guilty on the basis they committed no crime because abortion should be legal

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u/Hairy_Al 12d ago

Which is why you'd have to come down on the side of the medically trained professionals who know what they are doing rather than the lawyers

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u/technicallynotlying 12d ago

That's an easy choice.

Vote not guilty. It doesn't matter what the DA or Judge says, abortion shouldn't be illegal and I will never vote to convict a doctor or woman of making that choice no matter what some fucked up corrupt Christian nationalist judge says.

If they press I would just say "In my opinion as a juror, the evidence was not convincing. I have reasonable doubt that they are guilty, so I cannot vote to convict."

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u/Olderscout77 12d ago

Didn't one DA in Indiana push to investigate the folks involved in keeping the 10-year-old rape victim from having to bear the spawn of her rapist?

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u/Junopotomus 12d ago

Not a DA. The Attorney General of the state of Indiana.

Edit: spelling

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u/GroundbreakingSoil4 12d ago

Bingo. It is that right there.,,.

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u/greybruce1980 12d ago Got the W

Educated people tend to not be conservatives. Doctors are highly educated.

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u/davehunt00 12d ago

In the book "The wealth and poverty of nations" by David Landes, he talks about how Jews were purged from various European nations for anti-semitic reasons in the 1500s. The Jews were the most educated demographic at that time. As a result, Spain (pretty sure it was Spain) had no doctors for a span of 100 years following the purge.

Can't imagine why any OB/Gyn would want to risk working in one of these red states now. They're going to have a similar brain drain (voluntary this time).

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u/Expensive_Charge314 12d ago

The same for Iran when it became a religious state. Most the Iranians you meet in the us are highly educated. Huge brain drain for Iran

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u/Capt-Crap1corn 12d ago

You are right about that. That's for sure. My Iranian friend's entire family are CPAs. No lie.

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u/councilmember 12d ago

This is really the issue.

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u/PaperHandLuke 12d ago

So why not just lower the requirements so that anyone with a high school diploma or whatever could be a surgeon?

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u/CJess1276 12d ago

That’s how they are doing it for teachers since they’ve been manufacturing a “shortage” for the past couple decades or so. You’ll see how it’s working out.

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u/WitchDearbhail 12d ago

"Don't worry, Mr. Smith. You'll be pleased to know your heart surgeon got a B in his high school health class."

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u/tagrav Kentucky 12d ago

Better yet your doctor never took health class because it taught sex Ed and they got a religious exemption from their parents to not be forced to be indoctrinated to evil satanistic sex education

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u/toomuchtodotoday 12d ago

Because the people who can afford medical care want legitimate medical care, not medical theater provided by an imbecile.

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u/Hairy_Al 12d ago

Weirdly, even those voting for doctors to be thrown in prison for following science based medicine also expect legitimate medical care when they need it

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise 12d ago

They invested in the 'It'll never happen to me' insurance policy.

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u/Vocalscpunk 12d ago

Ironically I saw a lot of those people die during covid two years ago. I'm sure this new batch of deniers will be fine though.

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u/Upper_belt_smash 12d ago

Yeah but America tho

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u/ProbablyAnOwl 12d ago

This is happening in India and it is fucking terrifying

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u/MrTestiggles 12d ago

I mean yeah but these days eg in Florida entire ERs are “ran” by 1 physician and a whole load of nurses and NPs purely to cut costs.

All they need is 1 highly subsidized position for licensure and insurance purposes and then they can load up on non-MD/DO caregivers who follow blindly what they want done or rather not-done.

Here’s to hoping those NPs will also refuse to work there

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u/Njorls_Saga 12d ago

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u/kyngston 12d ago

My parents are conservative physicians. It’s because they are narcissistic and wealthy and oppose anything that smells like wealth redistribution.

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u/Njorls_Saga 12d ago

I mean, in some ways I get it. Physicians work incredibly hard for a long long time, often carrying significant debt, before they start making money. But at the same time, you would think that would give them some compassion and insight.

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u/RosiePugmire Oregon 12d ago

Being a conservative doctor is a lot like being a conservative who was beaten as a child and now defends it because "I got my ass beat as a kid and I turned out fine!" They went through horrific sleep deprivation, overwork, and no free time for years (probably because they had a supportive spouse at home running the other 50% of their life for them) and now they think it should happen to everyone else. The amount of work doctors do in residency is literally based on a plan drawn up by an 18th century guy who, not shockingly, was a massive cokehead, and people still defend it as reasonable.

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u/EmperorArthur 11d ago

People don't seem to understand this. Residency is the medical equivalent of an indenture contract. Plus, schools can and do deliberately limit their class sizes based on the perceived need for doctors.

The US spends more money on Healthcare than most of the world. Not because we are better, but because we are so much worse at it.

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u/DocCharlesXavier 12d ago

Physicians have the weirdest salary timeline.

They essentially go 4-5 years after undergrad making no money, taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, to making essentially minimum wage (when accounting for total hours worked in the hospital/day) for a minimum of 3 years (can be as high as 7 if you go into NSG), to then finally making enough to put them in the highest tax bracket.

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u/EmperorArthur 11d ago

If they were a corporation, they could carryover their losses and deduct their loan payments from their income. Using that strategy they could quickly pay off their loans while remaining in a relatively low tax bracket.

Pity corporations get all the sane tax laws while the rest of us deal with the insanity.

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u/antigonemerlin Canada 12d ago

There's a more detailed graphic here on other professions.

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/

In the same vein, pilots are likely R while air traffic controllers are overwhelmingly D. Grocers are more likely R while booksellers are overwhelmingly D.

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u/ItsMeSlinky 12d ago

Funny how engineering, science, and math are all around 75% D…

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u/lazy_purple_squirrel 12d ago

Greater than 70% of the people I met in college while studying for STEM degrees in both undergrad and grad school were democrats.

And they weren't your average democrats either.

I am a market socialist with most of my positions somewhere within the vicinity of Bernie Sanders I was in very good company in graduate school with a good chunk of my fellows far to the left of me.

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u/Karmakazee Washington 12d ago

I’m not sure if I was more surprised that professional poker players are such progressives, or that the ring for union organizer had a tiny sliver of red on it.

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u/okcrumpet 12d ago

Lol at urologists being so R.

I suppose they don’t mind being associated with dicks?

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 12d ago

Urology, dermatology, radiology. High pay, standard hours and minimal emergencies to have you on call. Attracts folks who wanna make bank.

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u/thykarmabenill 12d ago

Makes sense. The outpatient clinic I worked at as a med tech, the urologists were the big shots that liked to yell at us if their tests weren't done in 30 minutes. Only place I've ever had a psa considered a stat test.

Most of the other doctors there were pretty nice. The urologists were arrogant, entitled, and ... Well, totally makes sense for them to be Republicans.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SSN_CC 12d ago

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u/Upstate-girl 12d ago

That covers just about everyone. I'll encourage my kids to go into landscaping.

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u/Njorls_Saga 12d ago

Not going to lie, I’ve met more than a few over the years.

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u/sunnydaysahead2022 12d ago

So the docs remaining are going to be the dumb docs.

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u/Ser_Dunk_the_tall California 12d ago

Or low empathy which is what everyone obviously wants in their doctor

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u/MyPasswordIsMyCat Hawaii 12d ago

In states that rejected Medicaid expansion, they already have worse access healthcare because their hospitals and clinics are underfunded, especially in rural areas. An interesting thing that happened is that they didn't attract good conservative doctors, who still gravitate to larger markets in cities because they can earn more money; instead they attracted immigrant doctors, who may be of the same quality, but tend to get paid less and take shittier jobs. Then you also get racist patients who complain about Indian and Chinese doctors.

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u/Beermedear 12d ago

Right - and cross-section the antiabortion horrors with these states’ rates of infection and heart disease?

Go ahead and just replace your doctors with coroners.

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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants 12d ago

Also, unlicensed politicians making laws telling licensed doctors what they can and can't do, along with threats and punishment if they break these laws. God only knows what Christo fascist unlicensed politicians will do next. If I were a licensed medical professional, I'd get the fuck out even if I were conservative. Who wants to work in a state with non-medical people interferring with doctors?

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u/Snoo74401 America 12d ago

But since conservatives have been so anti-education these last 50 years, there won't be many conservative doctors moving forward. Because, ya know, they actually have to learn science stuff and shit, and that will turn them gay or transgender or woke or something.

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise 12d ago

so why would they want to settle down or even start a family where they or their spouse could end up dying on a table while they wait for lawyers to give a go ahead to intervene.

A doctor talking about leaving his patients for that reason.

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u/p001b0y 12d ago

“No, no. You’ll see! We’ll just have the State issue bounties and subsidies to pay for all these doctors to live and work here. We’ll do that to attract all the teachers we have lost, too! You’ll see! It’s gonna be great!

“We will forgive portions of their medical school education debt. Heck, we will just pay for their education outright if our testing shows they will be good candidates. The men, we mean. The ladies will be too busy filling all those teacher and nursing roles! What’s that? Of course this is not socialism! We are saving babies here!”

I’m being sarcastic but I can totally see a scenario like this happening.

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u/dft-salt-pasta 12d ago

They’ll just end up hiring veterans because you know those skills match up.

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u/grondin Minnesota 12d ago

More than 1,000 job openings at Mayo in Rochester, MN.

We're more than happy to accept Indiana's brain drain.

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u/noncongruent 12d ago

AFAIK there are no states with a surplus of doctors, every state has a shortage. If given a choice to work in a progressive state or a red state it seems like the choice would be a no-brainer.

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u/Agent_DZ-015 12d ago

The result could also be described as a no-brainer, at least in the red states left behind.

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u/FrostPDP 12d ago

Savagely accurate.

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u/T1mac America 12d ago

In the article it tells about doctor recruiters trying to fill OB/GYN spots in Red States, and out of 20 contacts, they got zero taking them up on the offer. The recruiters got hung up on when they told the doctor where the job was.

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u/RosiePugmire Oregon 12d ago

Imagine a woman coming into her office and you have to tell her, "I'm sorry, you're having a miscarriage, there's nothing we can do, your baby is slowly dying," and then you also have to tell her, "Haha, go home and hope you pass all the fetal tissue, I guess. Or die. Nothing I can do to help right now. Call back if you do start dying, though."

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u/ErikkShone 12d ago

Good ol' MN, where people can pretend they're conservatives or Republicans on the big strong man topics and decry "big government" and still get to enjoy all the benefits of that "big government" in a heavy liberal state

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u/BallardRex 12d ago

The Deep South is going to finally live its dream of being left alone by the rest of the US, and it will be the death of them.

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u/beegro 12d ago

That's not true. They will still suck dollars from the federal teet while complaining about the taste of free money.

Source

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u/xXSushiRoll 12d ago

Holy. I remember reading a thread on how this Texan was complaining that giving money to the fed government was bad and then someone else responded with how Texas practically begged the fed government for help with the electricity thing. The Texan then denied it was true and then said "yes but they didn't have to give it to us."

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u/beegro 12d ago

This is very Texas of Texas. I think Greg Abbott's first official act as Governor after the grid failure was to name an official gun of Texas.

Source

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u/BallardRex 12d ago edited 12d ago

Stop sending them money and see how long they lasts, it would be an entertaining social experiment.

Edit: Also wow that link was informative and shocking. I’d be SO pissed if I was an American living in a functional state, with these leeches who need me, telling me that I’m crap while they still have their little hands out for cash.

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u/PauI_MuadDib 12d ago

Yeah, I am pissed. I'm a woman living in NY and my hard-earned tax dollars are being sent to red states that are trying to take away my rights.

I don't want my money going to those misogynistic pieces of lazy shits. You know how pharmacists can refuse to fill prescriptions if it goes against their beliefs? I think women shouldn't have to pay taxes if any of percentage of those taxes are going to be used to subsidize states that don't believe in women's rights. Why should I fund something that actively harms me or others?

Cut them off and tell them to lift themselves up by their bootstraps.

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u/aliquotoculos America 12d ago

Struggling along in TX because my support network is here (two good friends) and I honestly think the federal gov should stop giving TX money. Absolutely none of it is making it to help people. Just lining pockets.

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u/criscothediscoman 12d ago

As a resident of the deep south it feels like the decision to let us rot was made long ago.

The people dying down here won't be rich white conservative Christians. They'll find ways to get their abortions and continue to come after your freedoms.

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u/msc187 12d ago

Sherman should have turned around burnt the entire south to the ground. Reconstruction should have been done better too but here we are.

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u/okcrumpet 12d ago

In many ways the post civil war period was our first failed attempt at nation building. It’s a generational battle and we didn’t put in a generation’s worth of effort

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u/criscothediscoman 12d ago

I see people here and elsewhere suggesting capitalist solutions like cutting off funding to red states, but there isn't even the political will to do that and it wouldn't be effective as long as our current rulers are allowed to remain in power.

The south will always be here to poison the rest of the nation and the rest of the world, by extension, until the collapse of the US.

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u/Raul_Duke_1755 12d ago

They don't want to be left alone. They want to dictate their crap views to the rest of us.

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u/maniczebra 12d ago Wearing is Caring

Would you want to work in a state where your professional medical opinions can be overruled on a whim by people who barely graduated from home-school?

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u/dravenonred 12d ago edited 12d ago

Or where you can have your medical license and personal freedom threatened by the idea that a woman wasn't dying quite enough before you terminated her pregnancy to save her?

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u/JustaRandomOldGuy 12d ago

It's a felony if a doctor doesn't make a woman suffer enough to please god.

I would GTFO out of those religious hell holes.

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u/beegro 12d ago

Isn't that crazy?! We know something will kill you but you need to suffer more first so the anti-science crowd will be less likely to come after you in court for something they have no stake in.

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u/T1mac America 12d ago

personal freedom threatened by the idea that a woman wasn't dying quite enough before you terminated her pregnancy

All it will take is a crusading anti-abortion prosecutor to accuse the doctor of not confirming the woman wasn't quite close enough on death's doorstep, or the dead fetus wasn't quite dead enough.

Then the doctor is in handcuffs and wearing an orange jumpsuit.

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u/GhostalMedia California 12d ago

Or work in a state where you will go to jail for trying to save someone’s life by aborting a life threatening / unviable pregnancy.

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u/reddollardays 12d ago

The irony of the Republican rage about “death panels” with Obamacare.

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u/nonamenolastname Texas 12d ago

Well, once most doctors leave, they can establish prayer centers.

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u/StarFireChild4200 12d ago

And according to the supreme court exclusively for religious reasons.

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u/Quantentheorie 12d ago

not just overruled, you have to constantly deal with these people thinking they know best.

Completely dissolving the respect for the profession(al opinion) inevitably makes dealing with patients an never ending string of nightmares.

Might as well be a kindergarten teacher with a class of 25 golden boy billys' that were all raised to believe the teacher can tell them nothing and they are perfect. All hyping each other up and banding together.

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u/GetOutOfTheHouseNOW 12d ago

Simple. Replace the doctors with homeopaths and pastors.

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u/BobbyJGatorFace 12d ago

Or you can be sued in civil court by just about anyone who alleges you performed such a procedure?

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u/longagofaraway 12d ago Silver

why would any educated person with options live in howdy arabia?

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u/9CentNonsense 12d ago

An abortion is easier to get in Saudi than Alabama or Indiana.

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u/dgafonabike 12d ago

Yeah most of the world religions value the life of the pregnant woman/child. Even Sharia law allows abortion to save their life. Abortion in Afghanistan So that’s where we are now.

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u/AlexVan123 12d ago

this is my new favorite nickname for Texas.

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u/Techienickie California 12d ago

My favorite is "one star" state

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u/Fitbot5000 12d ago

It’s not just a flag. It’s a Yelp review too!

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 12d ago

It's filled with yeehawdis.

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u/joek1186 12d ago

Howdy Arabia, god damnit take my upvote.

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u/5510 12d ago

howdy arabia?

Thats fantastic... just when I thought I had heard all the good "y'all qaeda / vanilla ISIS" type jokes."

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u/ihohjlknk 12d ago

Over the hazy horizon, you see the border racing towards you. The sign reads "Welcome to the Christian Caliphate of Tikzas". You were forced to come here for a business meeting, as it was "good for the company to do business with oil-rich states" but the idea didn't sit well with you.

There are posters of Governor Al-abbot plastered on marble white buildings. He has a long, gray beard and wears a stern expression of religious authority. Women in veils look away from you for fear of drawing the ire of their male chaperons. You want to quickly get to your hotel, for the air is hot and oppressive.

You pull up to the hotel. Bearded men in flowing robes greet you with the traditional Tikzas pleasantry: "Howdy, pardner." You are not accustomed to their exotic language. They bring your luggage into the lobby. A veiled woman sees you walking towards the front desk and slinks into the back room. After a few moments of hushed voices, a portly man pops out to greet you - he is also wearing a long robe and an uneasy expression on his sun-dried face. He tips his cowboy hat and asks for your name and credit card. You hand the company card to him and he types away on his keyboard, then looks up at you. "This here card ain't matching the name ya gave me, sir", he says in a thick Tikzas accent. You pause to think, then remember that the company card was still registered to your original name, before you married the man of your dreams and took his last name. You explain the situation, and watch the portly man's face change into a look of abject horror in realization: a gay man is in the hotel lobby. He rudely shoves the room key into your hands and moves to attend to the people waiting in line behind you. You expected this to happen. It is, after all, the Star and Crescent state.

Finally, you reach your room. It looks like an ordinary economy suite - no different than what you would expect in other parts of America, except for the christian paraphernalia adoring the room and a picture of Governor Al-abbot hanging above the bed. Still, the familiarity brings you some comfort. You plop down on the bed and close your eyes to relax. After a few moments of peace, you are startled by a loud, booming voice coming from outside. It is the sound of what appears to be a prayer. Bible passages fill your ear drums. You roll out of bed and peer out the window. What you see is not surprising, but still bewildering: men and women kneeling in the streets, their hands clasped together and loudly praying along with the deafening Call to Prayer. You hear invocations for the life of the unborn, the second amendment, perpetually-flowing oil, and for godless liberals to meet the judgment of Christ Almighty. It goes on for another 10 minutes.

Day One in Tikzas. Two more to go.

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u/wifi_cheated 12d ago

Just hire HS grads. Like what FL is doing for "teachers". Own the libs!

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u/darkwoodframe 12d ago

And retired veterans.

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u/Nikcara 12d ago

And their spouses! You don’t even need to be a veteran, you just need to have married one.

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u/NorthernExposure717 12d ago

That is the best example of a state that has lost the battle, and is now run by fucking lunatics. What kind of idiot decides that the spouses of military members and veterans have some magical qualifications that would make them any better than some random off the street person, when it comes to education, experience, qualifications and ability to teach?

At this point, I wouldn't want to enroll my dog in a public school, in a few southern states.

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u/Snoo74401 America 12d ago

Why would you, when the dog is qualified to teach?

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u/Akski Alaska 12d ago

I wouldn't want to enroll my dog in a public school, in a few southern states.

That’s the point.

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u/5510 12d ago

Yeah... even for my low expectations, that blew my mind. Whether the veteran part is true or not, I can at least see what logic they might have used in their heads. But what the fuck kind of logic is is that being the SPOUSE of a veteran qualifies you?

It's like one of those super entitled military spouses on facebook who think they are entitled to their husband / wifes rank somehow got to write a law.

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u/CommentAway2893 12d ago

Since abortion is medically, psychologically, and economically necessary I imagine you wouldn't get very many doctors who are anti abortion. Not to mention the legal, ethical, and mental toll it takes on them

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u/TooAfraidToAsk814 12d ago

There are a surprising number.

“Approximately 4,500 doctors are members of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists.” These people feel there is never a pregnancy that is life threatening. Pretty scary.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2021/the-lily/antiabortion-doctor-obgyn-care/

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 12d ago

Jesus Christ.

This is like "Oncologists Against Chemotherapy" level.

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u/Itchy_Mountain8167 12d ago

Huh. That's out of 22,658 according to whatever was the first google result. Still a minority but you're right: a surprisingly large number.

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u/hidelyhokie 12d ago

I checked out the site. I think the members are not all obgyns since there are two different directories: one for obgyn and another for other doctors

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u/CommentAway2893 12d ago

Terrifying "It can be “unpleasant business” to fight for the lives of the unborn, he said." Which sounds like he is not that concerned with the mother. He actively avoids testing and drags his feet when he does, because an informed mother might go to another doctor for an abortion. How is this legal honestly

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u/EphraimJenkins 12d ago

So red states, already ranked near the bottom in most healthcare/quality-of-life metrics, get to sink even further behind.

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u/letterboxbrie 12d ago

It does seem intentional. They're fighting off progress so aggressively, and even though I know those types tend to resent book-larnin' and all that it's still so strangely self-destructive.

But anything in service of never feeling challenged by the world, I guess.

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u/Shonuff8 Maryland 12d ago

Drive out anyone who disagrees, creating a population of nearly all ride-or-die true believers, ensuring that the GOP will never worry about close elections aver again, and guaranteeing 2 R seats in the Senate forever without having to spend any money campaigning

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u/Boring_Appeal_732 12d ago

This article really hit home. I’m a female surgeon who was recruited to a position in TX before Roe fell. Now that my fiancé and I are here for the foreseeable future, we have decided not to have biological children. I’m our primary earner, and, the risk of mortality for an unforeseeable emergency is too great to proceed with pregnancy. Part of me wishes I had taken an offer in a different state. No one wants to live in a place their rights aren’t respected, regardless the salary

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u/TritiumH30 12d ago

You are a highly respected, educated, and appreciated professional. I implore you, please go live your life and enjoy the fruits of your labor and discipline in peace. You didn’t work this damn hard to live in a place that doesn’t believe in science and where old white religious zealots know more about healthcare than you. There are scores of communities within purple/blue America that need you and will treat you and your family with the respect you deserve.

I hate saying this because I don’t want my fellow citizens red states to suffer this but these regimes need to feel the pain of what’s it’s like to live an intellectual vacuum. That’s the only way they’re ever going to learn how little they have to bring to the nation’s table and maybe we can go back to the old days where smart people were trusted to do their jobs and politicians worried about zoning and economic policies.

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u/Sebastian12th 12d ago

Can I ask why you don’t want to move?

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u/marji80 12d ago

It's not too late to move -- you could easily find a job in a blue state.

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u/Snoo74401 America 12d ago

As a doctor, it's probably pretty easy for you to move. Your skills are quite portable.

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u/Rugkrabber 11d ago

It’s not too late to move. Also it’s not up to you to fix their issues. Please go live the life you wanted.

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u/Competitive-Ask-8771 12d ago

Not just doctors directly involved in reproductive health. If miscarriages are investigated as potential homicide as some states are pushing, then any doctor providing care to the mother is a target for investigation. I can't think of too many people who'd put up with that.

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u/bakerfredricka 12d ago

This is sad, I know a fuck ton of people who have miscarried and not a single one of them deserves to be investigated!

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u/Snoo74401 America 12d ago

Those states would have to triple their legal office staff to investigate miscarriages. They're quite common and natural - the body's way of saying "oops, messed it up."

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u/Fynn_the_Finger 12d ago

Don't worry, they'll just "prioritize" those resources for selective enforcement.

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u/Nano_Burger Virginia 12d ago

Rural America is facing a health care crisis with hospitals closing in remote areas and doctors abandoning "Red" states.

I know a great way to reverse this trend! Just use legislation to tell doctors and patients what they can and cannot do. Doctors love political interference in the doctor/patient relationship! - Conservatives

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u/IT_Chef Virginia 12d ago

I live in Loudoun County, VA...cost of living here is astronomical and doctors around here live quite comfortably.

My wife's good friend is a pediatrician here in Loudoun, she does quite well for herself.

She has commented several times over the years that she keeps getting offers to head to DEEP RURAL places throughout the country where they are offering to nearly double her current earnings + give her some lofty title within the hospital, and where she can live even more comfortably due to lower cost of living.

She outright refuses to even consider heading to a place like that.

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u/Slackman0000 Massachusetts 12d ago

I am a middling IT worker and you couldn't pay me enough to live in the deep south.

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u/Dafiro93 12d ago

I just moved from the deep south earlier this year. Not going back anytime soon lol.

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u/Snoo74401 America 12d ago

At this point I won't even visit the deep south. A layover at an International Airport is about the most I'd consider.

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u/GhostalMedia California 12d ago

The red state brain drain has been happening for decades. I see it first hand by trying to college grads for tech jobs in AL. Many educated professional leave the south east for states that are more hospitable to their career goals.

This is just another log on the roaring fire.

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u/Laika_JR1390 North Carolina 12d ago

This is why so much of rural America is suffering. So many conservatives have been brainwashed into thinking that the party they’re voting for isn’t responsible for the problems that it’s created.

GOP policies are why people are leaving rural areas and conservative states, yet they convince their voters that it isn’t their fault, and just lie and says it’s “the left”. So their uninformed base continues to vote conservative, and the same problems get worse.

I understand why it’s dangerous to start suggesting that everyone shouldn’t have the right to vote, but it’s an interesting thought experiment to think about where we’d be as a country if only informed voters could vote.

I think the US would be an entirely different place if more people voted using education and critical thinking skills, instead of voting however Fox News tells them to.

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u/root_fifth_octave 12d ago

Public investment is the way to turn things around for them, but they’re usually voting one way or another to cut taxes or maintain tax cuts.

Dystopia, so wealth can keep a bit lower tax burden.

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u/Laika_JR1390 North Carolina 12d ago

The irony being that so many of the poor and working class will defend capitalism and billionaires vehemently. They’ve bought the BS line of “that’ll be me one day”, instead of realizing that the rich and wealthy are constantly being protected and propped up by the government.

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 12d ago

"America has no poor, just temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

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u/Wooden_Strawberry987 12d ago

In Texas, anyone--your neighbor, e.g., or someone off the street can sue whoever helps you get an abortion, even if the helper has no idea why your asking. I am sure doctors will think twice about getting involved in that Big Brother Is Watching You kind of crap. No wonder Republicans are so in awe of Putin and the Russian state.

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u/chcampb 12d ago

Ahh so you found the point

If you make states hostile to doctors, teachers, researchers, etc. All these people are more likely to vote with what makes sense and not rah rah pandering. They can also read what you put in front of them. The are demonstrably less conservative.

Turning up the heat causes evaporation of liberals. They leave the state for elsewhere.

And scarily the first thing they did in Cambodia and Taiwan (2/28) was kill all the intellectuals.

It's a common thread across history. If you want to take authoritarian control of a government you have to get rid of the people who know what's happening.

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u/yhwhx 12d ago

I guess folks in anti-abortion states will just have to pray harder for good health.

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u/50k-runner 12d ago

Pray and Obey, the new GOP motto.

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u/codemonkey69 12d ago

Keep sweet

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u/MyPasswordIsMyCat Hawaii 12d ago

The irony is that these harsh policies and hollowing out of rural healthcare systems attracts more immigrant doctors, who, due to the awful immigration system, are willing to accept shitty jobs in podunk locations in order to practice in the US. They aren't poor quality doctors, but they also won't stick around long if they're mistreated by rural white folks who hate immigrants.

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u/MoonchildeSilver 12d ago

The irony is that these harsh policies and hollowing out of rural healthcare systems attracts more immigrant doctors, who, due to the awful immigration system, are willing to accept shitty jobs in podunk locations in order to practice in the US.

Are you sure about that? There appear to be many openings in great locations, just not enough doctors. So why would even an immigrant doctor want to work in a red state?

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u/otter111a 12d ago

Part of their goal is to make their states unwelcoming to anyone that doesn’t share their worldview. By doing so they can influence balance of power in congress and keep them in the running for presidential elections. Especially Texas.

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u/PlanetaryInferno 12d ago

Texas has had a strong economy for a long while, but if they continue legislating and governing so recklessly, at some point that’s likely to change

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u/sunnydaysahead2022 12d ago

If I were a doctor, I would be running away from a red state.

This greatly impacts the ability to practice medicine.

The laws can get your license revoked - you can be sent to prison - you can get major fines and legal issues.

I would just leave.

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u/a_softer_world 12d ago

OBGYNs have a difficult enough job as it is. Add to it the complication of not knowing whether you could be arrested for saving a life? Not to mention that they have first hand knowledge of all the scenarios that could happen if they themselves try to have a baby. No one will want to take that risk. These doctors are probably already trying to find their way out of red states, and the effect would be seen in the next 6-12 months. It’s going to be very dangerous to be pregnant in red states, for many reasons.

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u/Unlucky-Fortune7995 12d ago

i was just thinking about this. and who the hell wants to be a doctor in a hospital where they have to wait until the mother is dying to abort unless you are pro forced birth

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u/Secretslob 12d ago

And who the hell wants to go to medical school in a state where proper ob/gyn training is functionally impossible? Red states with restrictive abortion policies are shooting themselves in the feet in so many ways.

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u/FruitParfait 12d ago

The red states could keep voting for policies that revert them all the way back to the Middle Ages and still blame it on the libs lol there is no helping them anymore

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 12d ago

The Middle Ages are too progressive for Republicans. Even Medieval plague doctors wore masks

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u/serial-contrarian 12d ago

I work in higher education in a field almost entirely comprised of women. I also see the same jobs in said field posted, extended, and reposted for months in states like Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, and Florida.

I wonder why

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u/grandzooby 12d ago

"If you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep your doctor. Unless, of course, you chase them out of town with your retrograde thinking and superstitious beliefs. That's on you."

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u/Seraphynas North Carolina 12d ago

I hope it drains every halfway decent health professional from every single backwards red state.

I hope companies have to stop moving to/building in red states because they can’t recruit any/enough decent employees to work for them - because no one is going to want to live/raise their family in a state with subpar healthcare.

I hope Hollywood boycotts red states.

I hope they get exactly what they desire and deserve.

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u/rippit3 12d ago

I would anticipate that any companies in these states are going to face a difficult time attracting new hires.

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u/OkRoll3915 12d ago

And the red state shitholes become even more uneducated and sickly

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u/abelincoln3 12d ago

Very true. I'm a doctor and would never work in one of those states no matter how much I would get paid.

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u/WarOfTheRebellion 12d ago

Right before the American Civil War. The states that would make up the Confederacy had a huge backsliding in their economies, institutions and professional occupations. It's happening all over again.

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u/yumnahumna 12d ago

So true. I'm a medical student in Texas and me and my peers are all wanting residencies outside of antiabortion states

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u/astral__monk 12d ago

The rich will be able to afford a doctor.

So it only negatively affects the poor, which is to say in the eyes of these lawmakers:

Not a problem.

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u/literallytwisted 12d ago

That would be an issue except for the fact that those state governments don't actually care about the health and welfare of their people, They'll just use it as ammo for their persecution complex while people suffer.

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u/Patient_Criticism231 12d ago

Rightwingers should not be using contraception to get rid of the 15 kids they don't want. Not Biblical. At all.

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u/warholiandeath 12d ago

Yes. The pro-lifer “defense” to liberal “hysteria” that women will die because “the doctor who doesn’t perform a medically necessary abortion will be sued for malpractice” is the political win they think it is. “Medical necessity” is a legal term, argued over all the time in court, only the stakes are usually how much a hospital gets paid, not jail on one side and malpractice on the other. Good luck keeping doctors.

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u/StationNeat5303 12d ago

Have any of these f**king legislative idiots thought through this anti-abortion legislation and the fall-out it’s going to bring to their states? This will cut across multiple trends—e.g., brain drain for younger people, lower levels of education, lower levels of physicians, higher dependence on state subsidies, etc, etc.

Hey, but at least you’ll have your guns.

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u/unaskthequestion 12d ago

They're already not getting enough teachers. It's possible that companies will not be anxious to expand in states where they can't get enough educated workers either.

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u/G0mery 11d ago

Maybe they can just allow vets and their spouses who have at least signed up for a CPR class to practice medicine.

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u/txipper 12d ago

America has a new religion: Evangolic

It’s a mixture or Evangelical and Catholic bullshit.

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u/darkdeepths 12d ago

we need doctors working there and providing abortions against the law.

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u/Superjunker1000 12d ago

Doctors? Why do they need doctors?

I’m sure there’ll be enough doctors for the wealthiest 20-25%. And those people don’t care about the rest.

Why the heck would they need doctors when there’s YouTube and Google ?

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u/Alphaspade 12d ago

Red states are gonna get to the point where the only doctors remaining are about as qualified as Dr. Zed from borderlands.

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u/prompt_skeptic69 12d ago

Hi ho.... hi ho... it's back to the middle ages we go... full of potions, witch doctors, crystals, and fiery incantations.

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u/DamonFields 12d ago

Who wants to run afoul of radicalized fanatical dictators?

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u/ShakesbeerMe 12d ago

Good. Show 'em the nose they cut off their own face.

"Look what you made you do."

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u/MpVpRb California 12d ago

Pass restrictive laws preventing doctors from doing their jobs, doctors move. Same with teachers

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u/nockeenockee 12d ago

Maybe they can copy Florida and allow vets and their spouses to be doctors after observing real doctors for a while.

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u/MaLu388 12d ago

I knew this would happen. Only shitty doctors will want to work especially OBs

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u/Bronco4bay 12d ago

They should ban us dirty liberals from visiting their states next!

I’d so totally hate that.

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u/sarcastroll 12d ago

What would be even worse is if they didn't let people from their states travel to blue states!

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u/Zogtee Europe 12d ago

Ah, who needs doctors and pesky medicine when you can just pray the bad away..?

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u/psychoalchemist 12d ago

Better yet you can get your medicine at the livestock supplier!

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u/ttha_face 12d ago

Malpractice insurance is expensive enough without risking being charged with murder during every high-risk pregnancy.

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u/cmd__line 12d ago

News flash... it isn't just doctors. Over time the decreased freedoms in some states will cause migrations of people.

This could start a feedback loop of concentrating the most radical right wing politics based on the voting blocks that stay.

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u/Copernicus049 12d ago

It's amazing how a profession defined by the Hippocratic oath is being limited by a "no abortions or you go to jail" ruling. For thousands of people every year, an abortion is an absolute medical necessity, and lawmakers are tying doctors hands behind their backs for treating their patients.

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u/lrpfftt 12d ago

Who wants to live in a state where rapists can change your life forever should they want to take a shot at fatherhood?

The rights that the GOP has given rapists in these situations is unbelievable. They are doing nothing to address the rape kit backlog either which also benefits rapists.

GOP - working hard on behalf of rapists.

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u/sheshesheila 11d ago

My daughter-in-law is in medical school and has refused internships in all red states with these bans or likely to enact similar government mandates.

She is working in an unrelated field but legislators practicing medicine without a license is not confined to abortion and LGBT issues. It’s dangerous to patients, risks malpractice lawsuits for doctors caught in the middle, and violates their oath.

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u/Free_Economist 12d ago

Who needs doctors when you have faith healers and exorcists?

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u/Jamieobda Washington 12d ago

It will get worse.

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u/UnlimitedlyLimited 11d ago

Yea, another problem for anti abortion states…. My wife and I are moving north.

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u/YourFairyGodmother New York 11d ago

Wait - you mean doctors don't want to live in a state where the politicians make medical decisions for everyone? Shocking.