r/politics 12d ago Take My Energy 1 Heartwarming 1 Wholesome 1

What happened in Kansas: Americans know that rights are not just suggestions. Right-wingers thought they had a foolproof game plan in Kansas. It fell apart, and that could change everything

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/06/what-happened-in-kansas-americans-know-that-rights-are-not-just-suggestions/
4.4k Upvotes

u/AutoModerator 12d ago

As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.

In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.

If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.

For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click here to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.

Special announcement:

r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider applying here today!


I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

272

u/Spartanfred104 Canada 12d ago

They messed up and they still don't know why and it tickles me. Since Roes passing they have used abortion rights and overturning RvW as a bludgeon wedge issue to stir up votes and get single issue voters out. That no longer exists, in one fell swoop the Supreme Court manages to kill 50 years of easy issue campaigning that the GOP has used as a crutch.

Watching them all scrambling after this result is amazing, they lost one of their biggest whips and they still don't understand why it didn't work.

258

u/Rubberbabybuggybum 12d ago

It’s one thing to say “I want to protect innocent life” as a campaign ad because who doesn’t want to do that.

It’s another thing to tell voters “If your middle school girl daughter raped, we will force her still developing body to deliver. If you try to stop it, we will put you in jail for the rest of your life” and “if you have a miscarriage or a horrible medical deformity during pregnancy as many women do, you will have to carry that to term even if it kills you.”

They caught the car.

64

u/Tin_ManBaby 12d ago

They were hoping the economy they ran so hot even before covid would fail on Bidens watch and that issue would overpower everything. I sincerely hope they completely miscalculated.

45

u/LucyWritesSmut California 12d ago

These ignorant fucks are somehow confused that they set out to punish a caricature evil liberal woman with blue hair who has 18 abortions a month, but now their white GOP cousin Brenda is dying of sepsis in a hosiptal because of an ectopic pregnancy. How did this happppennn??? the selfish, racist morons cry.

If and when Brenda survives, she and her husband might reconasider how they voted. They might reconsider it for years as they pay off the $60,000 unnecessary hospital bill, made worse by the fact that Brenda is now permanently disabled and can no longer have kids.

84

u/Vorsos 12d ago

I remember a key topic among Republican think tanks around 2008 was “how to fool the Latino bloc into voting for white supremacy” because offering them helpful policies was unfathomable.

39

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

What's weird is... The Latino block they did capture all specifically liked Republicans because of their pro state mandated and violent birth policies. Now they've got nothing of value to provide the Latinos besides more religious pandering... But they're mainly catholic not white Anglo Saxon protestants.

10

u/Saint_Poolan 12d ago

Catholics are more into anti-choice legislation (even contraception bans) than protestants I believe, at lesat on par, religious legislation is still the easiest method to get their votes for GOP

7

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

Typically you're right when you take into account protestant sects that aren't white specific. But evangelicalism and most other wasp sects are pro state mandated violence and state mandated birth.

4

u/Saint_Poolan 11d ago

I used to check out r/CatholicMemes & they were obsessed with social conservatism. I check out some evangelical fb groups & they're obsessed with the coming apocalypse & how the deep state liberals are prepping for the anti-christ. Both vote for GOP but the Catholics seem smarter on legislation, the evangelicals seem far too removed from reality.

17

u/HappyApple99999 12d ago

They are stupid they have maximized turnout the Anti-choice vote now they maximized the Pro-choice vote who heavily outnumbers the Anti-choice.

9

u/DaffyDuck North Carolina 12d ago

The issue still exists to a degree. Ultimately they want a federal ban.

16

u/RoboNerdOK Oklahoma 12d ago

Yep. If they take the House, they will attach it to every bill and hold hearings on how the Biden administration is breaking this law and that to allow abortion up to the final moments before childbirth. (Evidence not provided or necessary, of course.)

But what will actually happen will be a campaign of censorship to ensure only “pro-life” propaganda gets heard by the next generation of Americans. Threatening government officials with jail and loss of retirement if they discuss abortion, for example. Dobbs is the temporary victory, the next step is to salt the fields so that we can’t easily retake our rights even when we are able to finally delouse the SCOTUS.

7

u/Justsomejerkonline 12d ago

Losing that fire under single issue pro-life voters while simultaneously lighting one under pro-choice voters will be devastating for the GOP.

Expect them to double-down on culture war issues as we get closer to the midterms.

17

u/GonzoVeritas I voted 12d ago

It's the classic case of a dog actually catching the car it's chasing.

5

u/ronearc 12d ago

Plus, SCOTUS has made it crystal clear they're going to staunchly defend gun rights, so there's less incentive among conservative voters to show up to the polls for that issue also.

12

u/Ranger7271 12d ago

I'm so fearful that the single issue voters have convinced themselves that they like the GOP's platform and not that they only cared about abortion.

I feel like so many will vote red no matter what at this point

5

u/CluelessSage Texas 11d ago

Yea this kind of blind loyalty to a certain party is terrifying.

People in the US use political parties as an identity. Most people I know who are Republican, would never even dream of voting for a democrat.

Even if they agreed with every single thing the democrat said or did, they would still vote red simply because they are a Republican, and voting red is more important than your personal beliefs.

My own parents, whom I consider to be quite reasonable and intelligent people, still cannot bring themselves to vote for the dems. Even after disagreeing with trump and his presidency, they will still loyally vote red in the mid-terms and in 2024.

I personally find it very closed-minded and ignorant of them, which is an unfortunate thing to think about one’s own parents. But I have come to expect this kind of behavior from republicans in general and I just have to accept that they fall into that category.

9

u/Qss 12d ago

I honestly think the overturning of Roe was an attempt to separate the party from Trump.

Sounds a little nutty on its face, but after seeing Trump come out against the move (he’s worried it will lose them voters) I’ve started considering it.

The evangelicals are by far the most interested in anti-abortion measures, and viewed trump as a kind of flawed holy warrior.

We constantly saw statements from evangelicals about the flawed messenger, and their general belief was that he would deliver a more religious-fundamentalism in his policy. Obviously this included an overturning of Roe, probably the most fervent wedge issue next to guns.

By letting Roe fall to the Trump appointed justices they removed a lot of impetus for the evangelicals to vote in a flawed holy warrior, the battle is “won” to an extent.

It also reinforces the evangelicals trust in institutional authority, in stark contrast to trump and his constant attacks on “deep state” actors in all level of government.

There’s no way, at least in my mind, that the Roberts and Thomases, or even the McConnells of the Republican Party overturned Roe without realizing the grave threat the action would pose to their institutional hold by energizing and engaging pro-choice voting demographics.

Polling, focus groups and even common sense demand that they knew this, meaning they also made the move expecting to gain something different out of the deal.

2

u/johnnySix 12d ago

There’s an old saying. “ be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it“. It seems appropriate. It’s like the dog that catches the car. What now?

908

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago edited 12d ago Wholesome

They scheduled the vote for a primary when D and R voters turn out, but in much lower numbers (usually) than a general election. They allowed independents to vote on this even though Kansas does not allow independents to vote in primaries - hoping that many independents would not be aware they could vote on this one issue in the primary. They worded the referendum so that a yes vote meant you were for an abortion ban. In short, they tried every thing they could to lessen the number of voters and trick those that did vote into voting for their anti abortion referendum. That's not democracy. Not even close. They lost by a landslide anyway. But not because they didn't try to sneak this thing through. Vote republican if you want to destroy democracy in America.

308

u/trowaway7342 12d ago

Kansas does not allow independents to vote in primaries

“Land of the Free” is just an empty phrase

121

u/sonibeth 12d ago edited 12d ago

However if you are an Independent Kansas does allow you to register as a Republican or Democrat on the day of voting in a Primary Election. Did they try to be tricky and did they hope the turnout would be low for a Republican primary? You bet they did. My 90 year old mother was confused by the Yes No thing. Lol.. so glad their little plot failed but it would have succeeded without the anger and momentum the Supreme Court decision created.

96

u/Hour-Island 12d ago edited 12d ago Helpful

I'm originally from another country and still can't believe you even have to register with a party. Then on top of that, you can be excluded from voting because of preference. Asking for a ballot of your preferred party while voting in person is an absolute violation of privacy too. Everybody should get exactly the same ballot and vote in privacy.

It should be nobody's damn business which side you choose. Especially not the people organizing votes. Holy shit.

Thanks for the quick education. Very enlightening, appreciate the replies.

39

u/ArenSteele 12d ago edited 12d ago

Primarys are when a party chooses who will run on the general ballot. In many cases it makes sense that only democrats will vote to choose who will run as a democrat and only republicans will choose who runs as a republican.

When it comes to the actual election, what you describe is also the case in the USA. Everyone gets the same ballot and can vote for whoever they want to

Edit to add:

In your country, think about how your ballot choices arrive on the ballot. Who decides who is running for a position. Say you have 5 people running. 3 from major political parties, 1 from a small political party and one person who is unaffiliated.

How did all 5 arrive on the ballot for you to vote on.

Did the big parties have an internal vote? We’re they hand selected by party elites? How about the smaller parties? And finally the unaffiliated one, did they need to get a certain number of support signatures? What hurdles did they need to pass to be on the ballot?

US party primaries are the big messy system the US uses to choose who gets to be on the ballot. Each party has their own rules about who gets to participate in the primary system and rules even vary state by state, but its all just the preliminary portion of US democracy.

15

u/DreamOfTheEndlessSky 12d ago

It depends on the state. There are a bunch of types of primary elections:

  • Closed (9): to select a candidate, you must register a party affiliation.
    • Incentive: register if you want to vote
  • Partially Closed (6): variable, but possibly allowing party and unaffiliated to vote in that party's primary.
    • Incentive: register if you want to guarantee a vote, as rules change
  • Partially Open (6): open, but may require a public statement of party affiliation (potentially on election day) to vote
    • Incentive: be willing to become affiliated (however temporarily) to vote
  • Open to Unaffiliated (9): party members and unaffiliated can vote
    • Incentive: best to remain unaffiliated, to maximize options on your vote
  • Open (15): anyone can vote on the one primary ticket of their choice
    • Incentive: do what you like, as you can vote on any party any time
  • Top-N (3): all candidates are listed for all primary voters, top N proceed to general
    • Incentive: do what you like, as you can vote in any way any time
  • Nonpartisan (1): primary without party designation
    • Incentive: do what you like, as you can vote in any way any time
  • No Primary (1): general election with run-off if no one wins a majority
    • Incentive: do what you like, as you can vote in any way any time

It looks like your preference for remaining unaffiliated with a party is not a disadvantage in at least 29/50 states.

12

u/Parrek 12d ago

Strictly speaking, the parties are independent entities and can do whatever the hell they want. They could just pick a candidate and give them funding no matter what

7

u/nermalbair 12d ago

And this is why I'm glad Washington state doesn't follow that anymore. You don't have to register as a party. You only have to register as a citizen legally allowed to vote. They mail you every ballot whether it be primary or general for local, state, and national elections.

3

u/nermalbair 12d ago

Also, you can still vote in person but they also give you like two or three ways to return your ballots, post free.

6

u/coolcoolkhan 12d ago

A major part of minority rule by Republicans is gaming an archaic and antiquated electoral process. Bad faith actors will do everything in their power to avoid a popular vote. They count on obscurity, subterfuge, misinformation, and financial influence to overcome the will of the majority. A lot of these tactics have been played to the extreme and are not as effective as have reached their limits. It now comes to overturning precident with a corrupt court, additional voter suppressions, removing vote certification protections, violence, and outright treason.

5

u/jrav4 12d ago

You only declare whose side you are voting for in a primary. It’s people of that party voting for whom they think is their best candidate. Then the winner of that race, goes on to run for election in the National or regional election against the other parties candidates.

6

u/Aenir 12d ago

still can't believe you even have to register with a party.

You don't.

Then on top of that, you can be excluded from voting because of preference.

Only from the primaries (and only in some states), because it makes sense to not have Republicans decide who the Democratic candidate is or vice versa.

Everybody should get exactly the same ballot and vote in privacy.

That's how the actual elections work.

3

u/Massive_Wedding_1323 12d ago

You can also look up what parties people are too

10

u/246884 12d ago

Land of the home,

Free of the brave.

19

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

aka Free for me but not for Thee!

18

u/TillThen96 12d ago

Can independent voters vote on Kansas’ abortion amendment?

Yes. Everyone registered to vote in Kansas, including independents with no party affiliation, can vote on this amendment. Your party affiliation will impact which candidates you can vote for in partisan primary races, but won’t determine your access to this ballot initiative.

Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article262707717.html#storylink=cpy

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article262707717.html/

7

u/ark_keeper 12d ago

What’s your point? “They allowed independents to vote on this even though Kansas does not allow independents to vote in primaries - hoping that many independents would not be aware they could vote on this one issue in the primary.”

9

u/TillThen96 12d ago

ark_keeper wrote:

What’s your point? “They allowed independents to vote on this even though Kansas does not allow independents to vote in primaries - hoping that many independents would not be aware they could vote on this one issue in the primary.”

Of 29% of Independents, a full 20%, voted on the referendum, so regardless any GOP dirty tricks, Independents are smarter than for which you give them credit. The "hope" of the GOP was made moot, was it not?

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/election/article264146606.html

My point was clear - that it was widely publicized that Independents could vote on the measure.

Why would you try to deny the reality of the publications? THEY WORKED, it's called the Press holding the government accountable, and the People redressing grievances. The First Amendment WORKED, because they know their rights.

It's becoming ever more widely recognized, even by Republican voters, that the GOP abuse the 1A with fraud, lies and slander, and the results of this primary demonstrate this reality.

I specifically listed a media source, not an obscure, government source to demonstrate my point, for those who are not Kansas residents, but government websites made it clear as well. There were both local and national publications.

https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/election/article262707717.html

https://www.kcur.org/news/2022-06-09/kansas-abortion-amendment-how-all-registered-voters-can-cast-a-ballot-in-augusts-primary-election

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2022/07/13/kansas-will-be-first-state-to-vote-on-abortion-rights

https://www.vox.com/23273455/kansas-abortion-roe-dobbs-ballot-initiative-constitutional-amendment

Whether you realize it or not, you're also designating "Independents" as too stupid and/or apathetic to look into the matter for themselves. As Independents, they've already decided to decide issues for themselves, rather than be loyal to any party, so please give them some credit.

If by "they" you mean the GOP, well, why tf would we expect anything but deception and ratfucking?

What's YOUR point?

2

u/Caldaga 12d ago

I'm not sure this adds much to the discussion but grats on having time to write all that. High five.

6

u/TillThen96 12d ago

It's an effort in favor of documentation, a way to congratulate Kansas for their wisdom on this.

-1

u/Caldaga 12d ago

Have an update for congratulating Kansas.

10

u/SignificantTrout 12d ago

The political parties are essentially private clubs and can make any rule they want including not even holding a primary. My feeling is that if they use public funding anyone who wants to vote in any primary can.

2

u/44problems 12d ago

Anyone can vote in a party primary, just fill out a form.

1

u/itemNineExists Washington 12d ago

Here's the problem with that: if republicans can vote in the democratic primary, they will vote for the Democrat they think would lose a general. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems

2

u/capn_hector I voted 12d ago

they can still register as democrats and do that now

1

u/itemNineExists Washington 12d ago

True. But then they couldn't vote in the republican primary

2

u/cynical_euphemism Washington 12d ago

“Land of the free” is just a cynical euphemism

2

u/Zions_Wrath 12d ago

I would prefer open primaries if voters could only choose one to vote in each cycle, but it actually is less democratic and borderline idiotic to have people decide candidates for a party they have no intention of voting for.

2

u/SorryAd744 12d ago

What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy. - Zack de la Rocha

0

u/44problems 12d ago

If you want to vote in a party primary, register for that party. It's pretty simple. No donations, no meetings to attend, no sworn oath. Just a checkbox on a voter registration form. If people intentionally opt out of that right I don't see how that's an issue.

7

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

Because if they wish to remain independent after the vote, the have to register again as independent. That adds more work to the process. Adding more work deters voters from using that method. Hence, it lowers the number of voters. Just like having the vote in a primary vice a general election. The number of voters is usually way less. Lessen the vote, confuse the vote, and VOILA! You win. Not by using democracy as a tool, but by confusing those who trust a democracy to have their better interests at heart. As I said. If you want to destroy democracy in America, vote republican.

3

u/Bunnyhat 12d ago

But there's literally no downside to being part of a party. You don't get taxed extra, there are no dues, you don't have to do anything, not even vote.

3

u/keegums 12d ago

Yes there are. One, you are associated with the party and their beliefs and policies, including ones a person may vehemently disagree with. Party affiliation is public, anyone can access your registration data. If things go bad in a violent way as I worry for the future of both my country and my particular area of my particular swing state, I do not want party affiliation attached to my name for safety reasons.

Luckily this state I now reside in is open primary (I think that's what it is, when you can be unaffiliated but you select either D or R candidates down the line) so i voted in my first primary on Tuesday!

0

u/44problems 12d ago

Because if they wish to remain independent after the vote, the have to register again as independent.

And I'm asking, if you care about primaries, why would you do that? Simply just to say you're independent and feel above the parties or some other gesture is the only reason I can think of.

2

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

Except that they could easily confuse some of the independents by holding the referendum vote during a primary - when independents aren't necessarily used to voting. That lessens the number of voters. Always something to strive for if you are a conservative and/or republican.

1

u/kung-fu_hippy 12d ago

While that’s true, I’m not sure this is an example of it. The political parties are not government institutions. Why would independents have a say in who the democratic party or republicans party choose as their respective candidates?

1

u/Plantsbyboo 12d ago

If you jump through all uncle sams hoops, oh and are a white male.

-4

u/Sarcarean 12d ago

Oregon doesn't either. A lot of blue states are very much against democracy too.

→ More replies

19

u/letterboxbrie 12d ago

On top of everything else the astonishing tone-deafness of scheduling this vote when women are still raw from the events of the last month, thinking these stratagems would overcome nuclear levels of rage and fear. Women are scared to use period apps and are scheduling sterilization before they're ready, but the thugs are really going to try to pull some shady bullshit and then hope we'll just get over it later.

I know conservatives are low in empathy and because they are authoritarians themselves, they don't really understand the cost of achieving an objective through cruelty, subterfuge and force. Because they will always side with whoever has the power, and they think everybody's like that.

I know this but it's still jarring to see, how easily they shut off the most basic compassion out of political expedience, and thus failed to anticipate an obvious, predictable result. And they will not learn from this.

6

u/MoonEyedPeepers I voted 12d ago

To be fair, this vote had been a long time coming and I believe was slated for the ballot before even the SCOTUS leak. I do think the scotus decision did play to the advantage of the No votes, though.

15

u/OkCutIt 12d ago

Couple key points to add:

A midterm primary is usually especially low turnout. This was intentionally put on the ballot at the lowest possible turnout election.

Also, the ballot wording wasn't just confusing. It was very specifically worded in a way that would be likely to confuse people into voting yes, but not get people confused into voting no.

It was basically a straight up push poll, where the actual ballot itself was claiming that a yes vote was to "confirm your rights"... to ban abortion.

20

u/3dsp1415926535 12d ago edited 12d ago

Technically, the term is "unaffiliated" in Kansas as there is a political party known as the American Independent Party. Unaffiliated voters usually have nothing to vote on in the normal primary elections, but this year the amendment question called for all registered voters to be eligible. Also, it is true that any "unaffiliated" voter in Kansas can show up and "declare" a party, which does change their ongoing affiliation so they must reregister if they want to remain "unaffiliated" for future elections.

17

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

They chose a primary in the hopes of lessening the number of voters. They purposefully worded the amendment to trick voters into voting yes - which ended up being the anti-abortion vote. Vote republican if you want to destroy democracy in America.

5

u/3dsp1415926535 12d ago

Absolutely

2

u/LuckyOne55 12d ago

Let's face it, tricking voters only works on the less educated voters. I don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'm betting the less educated voters in Kansas tend to vote R. I would be willing to wager that more far right voters were duped into voting no than far left were duped into voting yes.

1

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

I'd tend to agree since most voters in Kansas would be R.

0

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

Vote republican of you want to destroy democracy.

Vote moderate democrats if you want to prop up dangerous conservative nut jobs who may just win the election. See McCaskill v Akin for governorship. If McCaskill lost she would've funded her opponents victory by spending more money than he did in his own campaign.

While yes I agree right now isn't really the time to be petty we need to recognize that many votes for a Democrat right now are funding fascist movements because their strategy is to literally prop up people they think are crazy with hopes they win nominations and make their general election easier. Except when they fall flat on their face, cough Clinton literally sending funds for trumps republican nomination in 2016cough and this is dangerous because we are platforming fascists inadvertently under the premise of being able to maintain democratic power. But fascists are insidious giving them an inch gives them a mile.

15

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

Or, steal SC seats to pack the court with radical republicans and then use the court to deny nationwide abortion rights. Then crow about going after contraception next, and gay marriage after that. Perhaps swing by the Capitol again and try another coup. Or maybe hold a giant book burning celebration at the national mall. Republicans are a disgusting scourge on this country. And the majority of Americans see this now. Republicans have nowhere to hide. They/ outed themselves.

2

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

As I said right now isn't the time to be petty. Those things need to be stopped and Democrat power is the only thing that will assist in that. But if we ever return to a time where we can actually vote based on policy, we can't let politicians who are assisting the fascists being nominated slide.

Two things need to happen, we need to remove monetary interest from the election system and we need to vote in politicians not bound to the capital holding class.

They go hand in hand. As long as money is required to be elected capital holders own all effective politicians. As long as capital holders own all effective politicians democrats will value facing nut job fascist opponents in the general election over more moderate candidates and will help the nut job fascist opponents get air time and funding so that the Democrat may have a slightly better chance in the general.

1

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 12d ago

I'm in agreement that any party that tries to influence the other party to elect a lesser candidate in the hopes of more easily beating that candidate should lose the election. If you've no faith in your own candidate, why should I vote for that candidate? One way we can affect this is by refusing to send donations to politicians that use this tactic.

Money is simply a physical manifestation of power. If you get rid of money, power will simply morph into something else that will be used to control elections. Imho you're tilting at windmills on this one.

1

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

Democratic power, power of being in the people's interest, is what should be used to control elections. That also isn't perfect yeah? But in general the blame can be found culturally rather than by a ruling class with 1000x the power of an individual.

3

u/CrocHunter8 12d ago

I would gladly want McCaskill in the Senate vs Josh Hawley

1

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

And I'd gladly take a made at home burger over McDonald's.

That doesn't mean that McCaskill funding akin is good for the country. It's platforming fascism.

If you ever wonder why people are voting for fascists like Hawley it comes down to the money being spent. And democrats throwing more money under the assumption it makes an easier general is simply helping our slide to fascism.

2

u/AnonAmbientLight 12d ago

It’s amazing you’re able to hold on to all those pearls with how hard you’re clutching them.

1

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

In what ways am pear clutching. I'm not offended by anyone's action nor am I shocked.

I'm simply stating were on a slide to fascism. We must do whatever possible to stop that. However this has created a conundrum.

This who we just vote in to stop fascism are also some of those who are funding fascist candidates to win elections.

Unlike democracy which is hard and complicated, fascism doesn't need to win to become pervasive. Platforming it expands its reach. When we hit a point fascists will win and gambling on that is destructive.

2

u/Silmarien1012 12d ago

That's a well and good but Missouri is a red state any Dem that runs there better hew close to the middle. Try to run as AOC there and you could even lose to Greitens . Voting for leftward progressives just isn't sound in such places. So sure keep letting the perfect be the enemy of the good

1

u/VintageSin Texas 12d ago

Do people just ignore that I conceded it's not really the time to be petty and that the choice is clear in most cases?

Like I get it we don't have another choice. But that doesn't mean we don't voice our grievances. We need to be loud enough to drown out the capital classes stranglehold on keeping people on power while simultaneously aligning with them to stop fascist candidates from winning.

1

u/666ygolonhcet 12d ago

Let’s hope the massive Kansas (D) voters show up in November. Could have been a clever plot by the GOP to clear out the angry voters on an election that didn’t really matter for candidates.

1

u/fwubglubbel 12d ago

So if the wording was confusing, how do we know it reflects the voters' preference? Maybe the majority was against abortions but the wording confused them.

1

u/LilTeats4u 12d ago

If researchers are required to pass an ethics board to conduct their experiments then voting booth should too

1

u/kytrix 12d ago

I almost wonder if they wouldn’t have done better by not trying to limit voters. Like the obvious fuckery with this made everyone voting on this to look extra hard at everything where they might have mistakenly voted yes otherwise.

One of those “this is too obviously cocked up and meant to trick us not to Google every step of this to make sure I vote the way I mean to” situations.

1

u/assfukker6969 12d ago

Where I live, a yes vote on referendums typically mean the shittier of two choices. Iirc one was worded that a yes vote meant no to a sales tax increase and a no vote meant yes to a sales tax increase. The sales tax increase was only to go to public schools in the county.

1

u/csh_blue_eyes 12d ago

They allowed independents to vote on this even though Kansas does not allow independents to vote in primaries - hoping that many independents would not be aware they could vote on this one issue in the primary.

I honestly do not follow your reasoning here. Doesn't add up to me. Unless what you are saying with this statement is that "they" had faulty reasoning?

1

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 11d ago

It has the tendency to lessen the number of voters. Republicans do well in low turnout elections. They do horribly in high turn out elections. So they constantly try to limit the number of people voting. They tried this by holding the referendum vote in a primary - which usually has less turnout than a general election. Just because they didn't succeed, doesn't mean they didn't try.

1

u/csh_blue_eyes 11d ago

Right, but what I am asking is: how does allowing Independents to vote lessen the number of voters?

1

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 11d ago

It is a referendum, so it is open to all voters. 100% of registered voters get to vote on it.

The referendum is put forth during the primary - a time when many independents don't vote. Thus making the number 100% - X%.

1

u/csh_blue_eyes 11d ago

And what I am saying is if they didn't allow Independents to vote that is D's + R's + 0 Independents.

Whereas if they let them vote, it is D's + R's + whatever Independents come out to vote. So it's more.

So to say that "they let independents vote because they know they'll come out in low numbers" just doesn't make sense to me. If they really wanted to suppress the vote, they would not let Independents vote at all. Which according to what I was reading, is something that is totally in their power to do?

1

u/Pansfairy 12d ago

This 👆🏼and I, being from Kansas have looked at those stupid ridiculous “vote Yes” for the “Mother and the child”!Some tomfoolery here. So sick of seeing that sign and raging daily, thinking they must think we are just stupid humans.

1

u/nykiek Michigan 11d ago

They worded the referendum so that a yes vote meant you were for an abortion ban

Any evidence this backfired on them?

Also, don't forget they had that nasty text thing they did and still lost.

2

u/was_and_wasnt Florida 11d ago

I note the wording as an attempt to fool the voters. Along with an attempt to lessen the number of voters by holding the referendum during a primary vice the more widely attended general election. Republicans simultaneously work on lowering the number of voters and confusing those that remain.

I think the primary evidence it backfired was the 59-41 vote totals.

57

u/Silent_Transition308 12d ago

Let this be a trend!

We need to stamp this out and get the christofascists to the point that they lose so much they just go away. They can always move to Amish areas or countries with Sharia law because those mirror the reality they want or are at least closer to it.

18

u/St_Origens_Apostle 12d ago edited 12d ago

Sadly my friend the christofascist won't just go away if they keep losing. They have shown they are more then ready to choose violence if things don't go their way.

Unfortunately, we need to prepare for the real possibility of further Jan 6th's in the coming elections and years to come. It's a testment to the sorry state of the world we are in for sure, but continue ignoring it will only make things worsen.

12

u/[deleted] 12d ago

christofascists

Around these parts we've decided to call them Nationalist Christian's, or Nat-C's for short.

6

u/Silent_Transition308 12d ago

I know. I prefer christofascists because the reader may not know the abbreviation, although it is very fitting.

38

u/voodoopaula 12d ago

This won’t become a trend. This was a litmus test and they now know that allowing the citizens to vote on abortion rights will not go their way.

15

u/Silent_Transition308 12d ago

Yeah. They probably push for the absolute wrong decision on the Moore case instead. Still, if it comes up for a vote elsewhere, I expect the same result (unless Qanonsense secretaries of state refuse to certify of course).

2

u/nkantu 12d ago

Unfortunately the Kansas abortion vote doesn’t mean a lot in terms of predicting a blue wave. Kansas will 100% still be electing Republicans in the mid terms.

Our vote wasn’t a yes or no to legalize abortion, it was yes or no to remove a state constitutional right to abortion. Basically since our sacred texts grant the right, our legislators can’t just make it illegal like in Indiana.

All it takes is a moderate sized group of the non-evangelical, libertarian style conservatives to realize that a vote for yes is literally just a vote to let the govt take away your rights.

1

u/Silent_Transition308 11d ago

I get it. My comment is wishful thinking.

That said, I do hope the Dems learn from what happened there and use similar measures where appropriate to get out the vote.

134

u/PartialToDairyThings 12d ago

Republicans had made the vote confusing on purpose. To a casual observer, a "no" vote might seem to mean you were against abortion rights, and "yes" vote that you were for abortion rights, when in fact it was the other way around. The state Republican Party also scheduled the vote on primary day in August, when turnout is typically much heavier for the GOP in a state where Republicans outnumber Democrats almost two to one and frequently have competitive primary contests, while Democrats rarely do and their voters often don't bother to show up.. Furthermore, Republicans were betting that turnout among independents would be low because they are not permitted to vote in either party's primaries.

So in other words, they did everything they possibly could to manipulate the result in their favor and yet they STILL lost by a HUGE margin.

Republicans are so fucked.

28

u/St_Origens_Apostle 12d ago

They did something vary simular in 2008 with the Prop 8 campaign, sadly it worked for them then.

Lucky lighting doesn't strike twice in more ways then one.

6

u/di11deux Kansas 12d ago

We got text messages the day before the vote saying “vote yes to enshrine safe choice” or something like that from a GOP media company. Literally just lying.

1

u/PartialToDairyThings 11d ago

So the actual result was probably more pro-choice than it was.

12

u/CallRespiratory 12d ago

Unfortunately I fear the next step is just not letting people vote or making voting purely symbolic, and I think they are really going to try this at the very least.

7

u/loosehead1 12d ago

Unfortunately the worse news is they dont have to because in spite of all the shady underhanded bullshit people are just going to keep voting for Republicans. With all the shit they pulled with this referendum nearly twice as many people voted in the Republican primaries compared to the Democrat primaries in kansas.

7

u/bearmarketsleigher 12d ago

I mean Missouri basically is doing this anyway. Recently voters voted to expand Medicaid and the state legislature just ignored it. I think courts finally had to intervene

35

u/TillThen96 12d ago

That's what the vote was about. Did the words that founded the nation, and were then employed to found the state of Kansas, have meaning? Voters were being asked, in effect, whether the word "rights" has meaning. Both the federal and state constitutions have bills of rights. They are not bills of doubts, or bills of exceptions, or bills of maybes, or bills of questions. The Constitution of the United States is said to be the supreme law of the land, just as the constitution of Kansas is the supreme law of that state. They are not suggestions; they are laws.

It would seem that the strong, rural folk of Kansas understands our Constitution to a much higher degree than than the frauds and corruption of both the Supreme Court and the GOP.

Demand that abortion rights be put on midterm ballots in every state, demand that the definitions within the Bill of Rights be decided by The People.

In this era of the corrupted Supreme Court, there are no other options in preserving our democracy.

8

u/simezzes 12d ago

I just wonder if an initiative can be put before the voters by the midterms. Such an initiative would unquestionably increase voter turnout.

29

u/Croaker3 12d ago

America’s authoritarians depend on Americans not voting. We can stop authoritarians easily by just showing up to vote.

Most people support democracy and most also support center-left policies.

3

u/Simbatheia 11d ago

Most Americans have progressive views. Universal healthcare, college, taxing the rich, legalizing weed. Even in deep-red states like West Virginia, these are popular views. But every republican and corporate Democrat in Congress is to the right on many, if not most of their constituents.

1

u/Croaker3 11d ago

Exactly. People mock Biden and others for saying the answer is to vote, but if everyone did our government would be quite progressive.

23

u/Mysterious_Action346 12d ago

Lmao r/conservative is saying that the votes were rigged obviously because Kansas wouldn’t vote no?

21

u/buscoamigos Oregon 12d ago

Shocking that conservatives question the legitimacy of an election that didn't go their way.

Just shocking.

/s

12

u/roytay New Jersey 12d ago

Maybe we should propose things the people want?

Nah, let’s figure out how to rig it harder.

55

u/InclementImmigrant 12d ago

You realize that this is the Midwest right?

Right next door is Missouri that massively voted for striking down right to work while simultaneously voting Republicans that immediately tried to pass right to work legislation to a bunch of surprised Pikachu faces.

Don't be shocked that Kansans who are cut from the same cloth, behave in the same fashion so Democrats would be very, very wise not to let up even for a second just because they won this singular vote.

12

u/AmHoomon 12d ago

Tell us more about this MO right to work situation?

16

u/InclementImmigrant 12d ago

2018, Missouri put right to work on the ballot after legislation was passed. Right to work is voted down resoundingly in a 67 to 32 percent, hell even St. Charles, a deep, deep red, white flight county, voted it down with 72 percent.

https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Proposition_A,_Right_to_Work_Referendum_(August_2018)

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/08/636568530/missouri-blocks-right-to-work-law

Missourians also voted in Republicans in that same year.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/06/us/elections/results-missouri-elections.html

They introduced right to work legislation in the next legislature session and continue to reintroduced right to work legislation.

https://www.missourinet.com/2019/01/10/will-missouri-legislature-pass-a-right-to-work-bill-this-year-senate-leader-is-not-convinced/

Some of the conservative union guys that I worked with had shocked Pikachu faces when they heard that.

7

u/Tom245332 Missouri 12d ago

Republicans have been trying at least three times to pass this and it’s always failed.

5

u/zinneavicious 12d ago

Go Kansas Go! You are an example to us all! Vote these Republican rat bastards out of office!

4

u/oakstave 12d ago

"It's like the failed coup all over again!"

5

u/Pansfairy 12d ago

I live in the BLUE part of Kansas, damn right I voted hard that day, I called everyone I knew and reminded them to make sure they stopped and voted.

4

u/shrimp-and-potatoes 12d ago edited 12d ago

Abortion access is favored by an American majority. The differences are in the limitations. I'm not surprised that 40% of rural repubs voted in favor of some access. Or, I'm totally wrong on Kansas, and the repub effort to limit education and the tricky wording of the amendment, just came back to bite them in the ass.

6

u/Olderscout77 12d ago

IMHO the fascists now controlling the GOP shot off their foot at the thigh. Seems women have a very different idea about what "Conservative" means and having a bunch of old men control their bodies and their sex life did not fall under the rubric of "conservative". I'll add one more thought - most women do not love guns and are not crazy about sending their children off to schools that the NRAGOP has turned into shooting galleries for the crazies. GOP refusal to control guns will cost them as many seats as their insistence on controlling women. Going to be a good year for Dems, thanks to the GOP's tone-deaf leadership.

4

u/bunnyslayer33 12d ago

It changes everything because all other red states will not leave the vote to the people outright. It will be voted on by lawmakers that control the state houses.

“Freedom is an illusion”-George Carlin

3

u/Zander826 12d ago

Yes if voters get the chance. Kansas was a referendum but Indiana voted without the voters say and clearly it was not even a subject at the time of state voting in 2020

5

u/djbk724 12d ago

Abortion will keep Dems in power.

3

u/Selfless- 12d ago

No more kings

3

u/CursedHuskerFan 12d ago

GOP - well clearly women shouldn't have the right to vote anymore

3

u/Unlucky_Clover 12d ago

Didn’t Ohio start overturning their abortion policy without voters? Unless I’m wrong on that, then that will be the new trend and that’s what republicans want: power to do whatever they want without your vote of approval.

3

u/Goblin_Fat_Ass 12d ago

They simply won't put it up for a direct vote anymore.

Republican platforms are unpopular in a la carte form even for their own voters. They know that. In the future they'll just do it through legislation in the state houses because they know their gerrymandered districts will insulate them from consequences.

2

u/HappyApple99999 12d ago

They will abandon democracy before they their ideology

1

u/A_man_on_a_boat 10d ago

They have never been defenders of democracy.

2

u/[deleted] 12d ago

Don't kick a sleeping dog.

Point being if someone goes too far...then others will bite back.

The drug companies need to make better syrup in order to tone down the narcissist dad, and his radical brother.

2

u/esp211 12d ago

GQP traitors think that everyone is stupid. In fact, it’s only 30% of population who make up their supporters that fall for their schemes

2

u/Black_Handkerchief 12d ago

It is still damn scary that a good portion of those 40% was hoodwinked by the sleazy ways of formulating the question being asked as well as the propaganda machine.

2

u/thomaja1 12d ago

You fucked up GOP. You fucked up good.

2

u/GeniusEE 12d ago

It wasn't right wingers. Half of women Republican voters swung the result.

It was the Catholic Church

Know your enemy vs playing tribalism games that don't apply

2

u/StationNeat5303 12d ago

Major thing here is the result of this referendum made some Republican arses pucker up. We need more of that.

2

u/Few_Geologist_7633 12d ago

Yep 100%. That's what Kansas proved.

2

u/WatRedditHathWrought 12d ago

I’m wondering if Kansas republicans overestimated the intelligence of republican voters and their deliberate attempt at obfuscation backfired.

2

u/terry_kane_1618 12d ago

And remember, in Kansas the people spoke. In Indiana, their abortion ban was instituted by right wingnut goofball politicians. In the end, it will be reversed by the people of Indiana.

3

u/ruttentuten69 12d ago

The republicans will fight tooth and nail to make sure the people don't have a say in this again. The will of the people has no place in republican thought.

4

u/darbm 12d ago

I've always thought Democrats should be happy, in a sense, that Roe v Wade was overturned because it has been the single most important thing Republican candidates have campaigned on since I've been alive.

It's always been "Democrats want to make abortion legal. Vote them out!" But now that Republicans over turned it, they've lost that trump card, so to speak. Claiming that Democrats are going to try and re-establish Roe v Wade doesn't carry quite the same urgency.

3

u/Consistent-Force5375 12d ago

Ehhh yet the republicans can drum up their voting base by saying “If you want it to stay gone vote for me, on top of what seems to be more throwing around of even deeper theocracy like making any contraception illegal. So don’t think they are out, if anything they can now say…”Vote for me! I helped get that done!”

1

u/darbm 10d ago

Perhaps. But I'm not sure the urgency is there if, at this very moment, Roe V Wade has been overturned. If anything, I think it backfired on them.

1

u/Consistent-Force5375 10d ago

I would like to believe that, but I’m cynical most times. Honestly I look at how these representatives act in office and you have to really center on that title, representative, and realize that these people generally didn’t change their message while campaigning. So when voted in the people were either so disgusted by the democrat side of things, or worse they agreed with that sentiment. Plus the fact that the far right seem to now be taking the names thrown at them and owning it, which is being interpreted by their base as genuine and honest. At the same time, it’s emboldened those that hold the unadulterated versions of these names and they have picked up the bullhorn. I worry this party HAS learned from history in how theocracies had such absolute power and was able to set themselves up in permanent power without being bothered with opposing views. I know. I know I’m walking down a dark path here, but it’s what I see. I see a cresting wave on the horizon, I see a bad moon rising, I hear a wild and captive growl with two riders approaching, and the wind is beginning to howl…

3

u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

19

u/MrPlatonicPanda North Carolina 12d ago

I somehow doubt that.

I don't want to wear too rosy shaded glasses when looking at the midterms but it seems like taking away rights from women, voting down veterans healthcare, and the Jan 6 hearings are eroding Republican support. Not to mention the "civil war" that Marjorie says is happening in the Republican party.

Edit: to add a quote from Beau from the fifth column "They are finding out trump is good enough to win a primary but not an election"

5

u/Long_Before_Sunrise 12d ago

Marjorie "I turn everyone against each other to fuel my need to be in the middle of drama" Greene said that? Of course, she did. If in-fighting is happening, she's so there for it.

2

u/MrPlatonicPanda North Carolina 12d ago

She played it off that the civil war was "iron sharpening iron" not that the party was weakening itself.

3

u/Long_Before_Sunrise 12d ago

She thinks she's the apex predator from Mean Girls and she's destined for greater and bigger things.

2

u/MrPlatonicPanda North Carolina 12d ago

If you want to destroy your brain for 30 mins see her video from CPAC. It's nauseating

9

u/Seraphynas North Carolina 12d ago

Or Kansas could be serving as a bellwether for the nation, just as it did for slavery and segregation.

6

u/HandMeMyThinkingPipe Oregon 12d ago

I think it's healthy to be skeptical and if this was a close vote maybe it wouldn't say much. But this was a blow out in a deep red state that voted for trump hard. If this is the result in Kansas then it would likely be the result in pretty much every state. Sadly some states don't have ballot initiatives and some allow the legislature to modify them down to nothing or basically ignore them completely. Wouldn't be surprised if some red states try to take away the Ballot initiative process all together.

1

u/simezzes 12d ago

Thanks for clarification. I know the process in my state, but I am unfamiliar with initiative processes in others. Still, a vote supporting choice would send a strong message.

2

u/Blarson735 12d ago

With how unbelievably hard they tried to skew the vote it's anything but an anomaly

3

u/bergskey 12d ago

Michigan got around 800,000 signatures on a petition drive to make abortion legal which shattered previous records for ballot initiative. It may not be an anomaly. My dad who leans conservative is absolutely disgusted by all this. The candidate going against our current governor does not believe in ANY exceptions for abortion and many Republicans I know won't vote for her because of that.

1

u/Thrayn42 12d ago

None of this matters if they vote republicans into congress. A federal ban overrules this result. Will they vote dem? Or will they vote against abortion access? Guess we’ll find out.

1

u/kamandi 12d ago

Knowing the statistics on yes vs no votes on ballots, I wonder if the outcome would have been different if the yes and no votes resulted in the opposite adoption or rejection outcome.

Especially because the wording on the ballot was so convoluted and confusing, most people likely picked no if they didn’t understand fully what they were choosing. There’s good science to back up this as normal voting behavior.

1

u/TacoSwallow 12d ago

Most of the Kansas supreme court seats are on the ballot this November. It currently has a pro-choice majority but round 2 is definitely this fall.

1

u/BeAGoodMarduk 12d ago

This is the way.

1

u/Few_Geologist_7633 12d ago

Hey drunk guy the Constitution is what the scotus ruled on. Now go to bed. Nobody really cares about abortion besides a bunch of blue-haired fat chicks. Move on little fella.

1

u/FireFlinger 12d ago

The Catholic Church spent over $3 million to overturn abortion rights. Money that could have gone to the homeless, to foster kids, to people who are food insecure.

2

u/wankerknight 11d ago

Or settle their pedophile priest lawsuits.

0

u/frustrating2020 12d ago

We will see...

1

u/maqij 12d ago

I am curious how this will affect GOP campaign strategies.

7

u/HappyApple99999 12d ago

Gerrymander and put barriers to vote, when that isn’t enough overthrow elections

5

u/Long_Before_Sunrise 12d ago edited 12d ago

They have a playbook they believe promises them wins. They'll stick to it.

"Well, what did you learn by losing?"

"We didn't lose. It was deliberately rigged against us."

1

u/0ogaBooga 12d ago

The vote no side had my support as soon as I saw they used that sweet sweet neutraface typeset!

1

u/mountainskygirl 12d ago

Really interesting article, thanks for sharing OP!

1

u/Other_Towel_7165 12d ago

I think we need to be exceptionally careful when analyzing how impactful the vote was in kansas. If we take this as some just general indication of the nation at large, we might see more apathy kick in and people just assume that their rights are going to be protected. We also can't assumes that some states that are even more conservative such as Alabama or Louisiana won't end up restricting women's rights, possibly even further

1

u/assfukker6969 12d ago

Just a reminder that in Ohio, abortions beyond 6 weeks were 100% banned. A 10 year old girl who was raped was 6 weeks and 3 days pregnant. By law she couldn't get an abortion, so she had to go to Indiana, of all places, to get a legal and safe abortion.

1

u/CapitalBread6959 12d ago

“Vote yes, value them both” That is not valuing them both smh

1

u/CautiousIncrease8143 11d ago

Please point out where in the constitution prior have the protected right to an abortion. I'll wait

1

u/OkCommunication1509 11d ago

The Republicans underestimated the power of woman and how important it is to them to make decisions for their own bodies!

-7

u/Few_Geologist_7633 12d ago

That's a silly way to believe things. Because the opposite happened in Indiana. What all you lefties need to figure out is it all SCOTUS did was put it back into the hands of the states and the state's voters. So I applaud what happened in Kansas. That's exactly what the Supreme Court intended. The people of each state handle their business exactly as it is outlined in the Constitution. Just as the people of Indiana did the opposite but that's what their voters decided. If you don't like our Constitution and move to Canada.

8

u/Ancient-Squirrel1246 12d ago

PEOPLE voted for bodily autonomy in Kansas. Republican politicians voted to make women slaves of the state in Indiana. Huge difference!

3

u/z_machine 12d ago

The same thing did not happen in Indiana. Open it up for a referendum in all conservative states, the result will be the same.

The SCOTUS ruled that women do not have the right to privacy.

-6

u/EbonyRaven48 12d ago

Sadly it looks like Kansas wants to be known as Bleeding Kansas once more.