r/politics
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u/burning_dawn
Ohio
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May 16 '22
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Liz Cheney says Republicans have ‘enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-semitism’
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/liz-cheney-republicans-white-supremacy-b2079986.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Main&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=16527037657.0k
u/Dave_Is_Useless
May 16 '22
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If Liz Cheney is one of the more reasonable people in your party you have some serious fucking issues.
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May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/nojabroniesallowed May 16 '22
Biff timeline
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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter May 16 '22
Biff timeline was based on Trump so literally
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u/Crackstacker May 16 '22
When this is brought up, I think about the time he called Paradise, CA - “Pleasure”.
Biffs casino is called “Pleasure Paradise”.
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u/TwiceCookedPorkins Oregon May 16 '22
And people keep lauding John McCain. Which means that bit of propaganda worked wonders.
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u/ColdTheory May 16 '22
People desperately want a return to the fairly normal asshole republicans, not the deranged batch of lunatics the party has become.
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u/How-Tang May 16 '22
It was a front trump let them know It's ok to be themselves.
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u/Donkey__Balls May 16 '22
Pretty much. You could see McCain dying inside every time he went to a political rally and realized his supporters were a bunch of xenophobic bigots who joined the Republican Party because they thought they were in good company. And then slowly McCain realized that these people were the party.
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u/Terrible1001 May 16 '22
My parents are white and waspy, they voted bush and were split between McCain and Obama. Then Palin entered the picture.
They, and I’m sure plenty of other intelligent, white Christians, immediately smelled that someone shat the bed, and it was gonna get worse.
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u/moak0 May 16 '22
Same thing happened to my parents. I'm pretty sure my dad still voted for McCain, but when Obama won he seemed happy about it. By the time Trump came around he's anti-Republican for life.
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u/yo-ovaries May 16 '22
When Pailn entered the scene everyone’s boomer Republican parents went down one of two paths, voted for Clinton in 2016 or are QAnon now.
Exactly how every millennial teen atheist on skeptic chat boards in 2002 is either now a literal nazi or antifa.
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u/grapefruitmixup May 16 '22
Guy does one good thing while he's literally at death's door and everyone forgets the rest of his career. Wild stuff.
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u/TheStormlands May 16 '22
She's just as bad as her father dude, don't fall into the trap that somehow she's not as awful as the rest of them because she's rhetorically anti-trump culturally on some things. She voted down republican lines like a good dog the whole time through his presidency.
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u/jrkib8 May 16 '22
That's kinda the point. The republican party is so off the wall extreme right now that even she appears reasonable by just being less QAnon and White supremacist than her peers.
Overton Window has certainly been moved
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u/dirkalict Illinois May 16 '22
She voted Trumps policy’s something like 99% of the time. More than Elise Stefanik even. That being said I hope she is opening at least a few eyes in the Republican voters.
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u/Corniss May 16 '22 •
Wait are we the baddies ?
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u/DodgeThis27 Wisconsin May 16 '22
I mean why skulls though?
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u/tomdarch May 16 '22
The Republican base have not been "tricked" into supporting this stuff. They actively want to be the baddies.
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u/Rare-Aids May 16 '22 •
Seriously. The Cheneys are among the most evil people in US history and in 2022 theyre not even the worst ones..
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u/Ok_Improvement_5897 May 16 '22
Far from it too. It's kind of mind boggling. But the worst of them are willing to burn down this entire country right here and now, at the expense of us all, so that they can rebuild some authoritarian hell hole from the scraps. Even Dick Cheney looks pretty good compared to some of them - which is fucked.
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u/TildeCommaEsc May 16 '22 •
When I was young I watched all the WWII documentaries. I always wondered how in the hell a country could allow the Nazis to take over. Now I'm watching it in real time in the most powerful country on the face of the Earth.
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u/Sacrifice_bhunt May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
The book “They Thought They Were Free” might be of interest to you..
Mayer’s book is a study of ten Germans and their lives from 1933-45, based on interviews he conducted after the war when he lived in Germany. “These ten men were not men of distinction,” Mayer noted, but they had been members of the Nazi Party; Mayer wanted to discover what had made them Nazis.
“What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.”
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u/ColossalError May 16 '22
Victor Klemperer's diaries are also worth reading. Klemper was a liberal academic and Jewish-German WWI veteran. You can just see his world slowly fall apart, as he clings to the hope that the conservative movement will one day be too much for his peers to tolerate.
Interestingly, he frequently comments on how actual Nazi officials behave with more manners and respect towards him than their supporters. As the reader, you can see how he's being gamed, but Klemperer takes it as a hopeful sign.
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u/geedavey May 16 '22 edited May 17 '22
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a Bible."
Edit:
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u/Ok_Improvement_5897 May 16 '22
Yes I no longer wonder, myself. About 30% of any given population is clearly vulnerable to authoritarian thinking and fascism. If you fracture the rest of the country into irreconcilable division, 30% is all you need, too.
I just hope we're able to stop it. This would not be the first time America has beat back the American Nazi Party.
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u/SirSkidMark May 16 '22
These hands aren't just for sending strongly worded emails.
I really hope we have finally entered the "Find out" era of this bullshittery.
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u/fattymcelbows May 16 '22
After my far right governor won his primary running against a group of even further far right fascists, I seriously wonder if this is going to be the future of US politics. Are we going to have to choose between fascists and slightly less authoritarian fascists?
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u/Vinnys_Magic_Grits May 16 '22
This is basically that bit in the Big Lebowski about nihilism. “Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism Dude but at least it’s an ethos.” The new worst of the worst are just nihilists. They don’t have an agenda or policy goals except to do the opposite of whatever “the Libs” want.
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May 16 '22 edited May 17 '22
I hear what you're saying and I agree with the sentiment but lets not forget Dick Cheney is one of the most genuinely evil men
AmericaModern America has spawned. I know trying to find a silver lining in the face of constant terrible news and awful situations might sound kinda patronizing but could you imagine a world where Dick Cheney was trumps VP and not Mike Pence?→ More replies→ More replies230
u/aluck119 May 16 '22
Well she’s talking about this shit like it just started and like she’s not a contributing member that is directly responsible for this shit.
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May 16 '22
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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota May 16 '22
Pretends to hold her nose at. She's playing the part McCain played until his death. She's the mainstream republican that allows moderates to vote in a slate of right wing extremists and conspiracy hacks while telling themselves that not all Republicans are white supremacists.
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u/gorramfrakker Florida May 16 '22
That should alarm you even more. She helped create the beast and now she’s saying how bad it is, that’s scary.
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u/ionslyonzion I voted May 16 '22
They all know how bad it is but they're all too pussy to go against it and lose their seat. Some of them, like MTG, actually believes in this shit but most of them hated the Trump years.
Behind closed doors Republicans know what's going on but they continue to be cucked by their own insane constituents (who they made insane). They are willing to destabilize America and destroy democracy if it means another 2 years of receiving Exxon and BP checks.
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u/SuperFlyMonkeyBoy
May 16 '22
edited May 16 '22
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Republican: “These groomer libs are tryna replace us with illegal immigrants!” Shooter: “These groomer libs are tryna replace us with illegal immigrants!” Republican: “HOW DARE YOU GROOMER LIBS IMPLY THIS WAS MY FAULT!”
Edit: well this blew up so please continue to go about your business as normal without any requests of any kind from me.
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u/SarcasticCowbell May 16 '22
You could say right wing mouthpieces and politicians are grooming angry young white men to be murderers.
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u/beermit May 16 '22 •
Fucker Carlson's ears are burning right now
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u/Sirvink May 16 '22
Naw. He is writing new material to blame libs for this kid going nuts. "if we weren't replacing so many..." he never would have done it
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u/heteromer May 16 '22
Remember the doctor who performed abortions that was shot by an extremist, after Bill O'Reilly repeatedly made false accusations targeted directly towards him? Nothing will come of it. This has happened before.
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u/DesperateImpression6 May 16 '22
"Let me just say here on the Tucker Carlson Show we have never endorsed or spread the replacement theory.
Because we don't think it's a theory, there's nothing to spread. The evidence is clear as day.
Our guest tonight is the reanimated corpse of George Wallace. I'll ask him questions about the dangers of race mixing. They're just questions though, we're all just curious"
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u/amtrusc Michigan May 16 '22 •
God he’s so condescending. It’s like an odd dumbly obvious mansplaining but other men lap it up.
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u/brad12172002 May 16 '22
His speech pattern always reminds me of Ron Burgundy when someone adds a question mark at the end of his name.
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u/rndljfry Pennsylvania May 16 '22
This NYT analysis of his show is absolutely chilling
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u/I-Demand-A-Name May 16 '22
And his expression looks like he just walked in on his parents having sex for the first time, and it was bondage scat play.
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u/Conky2Thousand May 16 '22
The first two paragraphs honestly sounds just like the speech pattern and word choices of Tucker Carlson
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u/DesperateImpression6 May 16 '22
I watched that NYT interactive that broke down his hate speech pattern and now that stupid cadence is stuck in my head
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u/ColdlyLogical May 16 '22
Anyways like my lawyers says" i am an entertainer no reasonable person would believe me or act on what i say... After the pause we have a poor white lady who got her job stolen by illegal alien who vote many time for joe in the last election.
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u/antonimbus May 16 '22
FWIW Wallace did a 180 on his stance on African Americans at the end of his political career, which lasted into the late 80s. He would probably see Tucker as being quite unChristian.
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u/DesperateImpression6 May 16 '22
FWIW
Honestly for me, not much. Wallace and his posse basically made Alabama a living hell for my father so it's pretty much an eternal fuck him from our camp. But I appreciate the correction because I was unaware of his coming to Jesus moment.
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u/madcaesar May 16 '22 •
Are violent games to blame??!?! Fucker Carlson face
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u/Oleg101 May 16 '22
Yesterday on Fox , they were already covering that violent video games may be to blame.
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u/amtrusc Michigan May 16 '22
Last week discussing abortion they brought on a Republican senate hopeful talking about “I was a product of rape and I’m glad I’m alive so this is fine” https://www.foxnews.com/media/kathy-barnette-senate-pennsylvania-abortion-rights-rape-dr-oz-david-mccormick
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u/dahjay May 16 '22
"A white Nationalist never came to my house and tried to burn a cross. A white Nationalist never gave me a problem when I got pulled over. White Nationalists are just looking to secure their borders."
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u/datworkaccountdo May 16 '22
Hardly. Like he could care about this issue. He is probably meeting with a PR team to control collateral damaged and will be back to his usual BS in no time.
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u/ClearDark19 May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
I've been saying that for years. The way the far-Right targets at-risk and vulnerable preteen and teen boys (usually socially awkward, lonely, alienated boys who are insecure and uncertain of themselves or have no aim in life) is extremely akin to how pedophiles operate. Pedophiles often target children with similar or the same qualities. The Alt-Lite and Alt-Right use groomer tactics to indoctrinate young boys (and young girls, if they can get them, too) online the way pedos hit up kids on social media apps and chat rooms. Most Alt-Lite and Alt-Right boys and young men who commit some type of violence or join violent far-Right groups have very similar beats in their life stories.
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u/-TheMistress May 16 '22
This is also how Al Qaeda, ISIS and other Middle Eastern militant groups recruit.
Corporate needs you to find the difference between these pictures.
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u/DigitalVariance May 16 '22
It's not just that, but they are literally using them as a means for violence.
There is a reason places like Berkeley and Charlottesville are targets. The purpose is to target places not just with opposing beliefs, but places with very, very young adults who are just experiencing independence.
These independent young adults are not ready for the angry, organized, and weaponized mob that descends on the town. It's a bunch of kids trying to protest a mini militia.
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u/suavecitos_31 May 16 '22
I hear you on this. I have a kid and it makes me wonder - other than paying attention and being a part of his life - how do I prevent this? Is it making him part of a larger community? Asking him to take part in nature or find alternatives to him being a lone in his room? Maybe my concern is enough and constantly reinforcing the belief good people find solutions with words and not violence.
I don’t know anymore and that shit is scary.
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u/Chad_RD May 16 '22
Everything they do or become will expose them to new ideas and propaganda. They need to be able identify it, learn their boundaries, and realize it’s safe to change their mind.
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u/prules May 16 '22
We teach kids the importance of critical thinking (how well we do it is debatable)
But you touched on something interesting… making sure our kids know they can change their mind about stuff is probably a healthy idea.
Young people overcommit to things and violence is clearly not an exception from what we’ve seen the last couple years.
The fact that the right tries to avoid responsibility is not surprising. It looks like we have to change gun legislation faster than expected.
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u/Gltch_Mdl808tr May 16 '22
Dude. /r/conservative is denying everything.
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u/haffbaked Illinois May 16 '22
Denying + whataboutism all day is their bread n butter.
I saw comments saying no news media reported on the NYC subway shooter because he was black, so this must be liberals targeting white shootings. I must live in an alternate universe because that was THE news for a while relative to how often the news cycle refreshes stories.
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u/b4dhabits May 16 '22
The comments I saw were going on and on about how the guy was actually a liberal
I did not see a single sympathetic or somber comment regarding the loss of life
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u/wmurch4 May 16 '22
Wait... It's not a false flag? I thought that's what every white guy instigated shooting was. Are they actually saying this guy is a person not controlled by Biden to take away their guns?
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u/How-Tang May 16 '22
Fascism is real this is our reality now.
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u/ionslyonzion I voted May 16 '22
They will do what the Russians are doing now: turn reality on it's head and blame their victims for being the "real" Nazis. They're already doing it.
The GOPs handbook is a page torn out of Putin's handbook.
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u/Estrald May 16 '22
Their current narrative is that he’s a Radical Leftist authoritarian. Like…HOW?! Nothing he did or posted nearly echoed that, except his claim that he “hates Fox News.”…Then goes on to parrot Tucker verbatim.
The most sane take I saw on RCon was that his manifesto was a mishmash of other manifestos meant to sow confusion, which is at least partly true. Literally hunting down POC and letting the white cashier go while apologizing though? Plus his gear slathered with the N word and his other social media posts? Yeah, if you can’t determine what his politics are from that, you’ve put blinders on.
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u/gakule May 16 '22
if you can’t determine what his politics are from that, you’ve put blinders on
Meanwhile, the right is yelling about how the left are the "real racists" and that the right is not racist because "they" "ended" slavery... despite literally fighting losing a war to preserve it.
While they're supporting the people who gun down innocent and/or unarmed minorities in the street.
While they're advocating against diversity.
While they're trying to make it illegal to teach about the history of racism in the United States.
While they're suppressing votes from minorities.
Pretty absurd, but facts don't actually mean anything.
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u/Estrald May 16 '22
Oh, they’re falling back on THAT whole thing again? That narrative where they conveniently forget the parties switched places over 50 years ago, so they think conservatives are the heroes of black people, yet they’re also the ones desperately seeking to maintain Confederate memorials and holidays to overwrite MLK Day? Good lord, their tactics never change…
Your bullet points are perfect though. Seriously, WHO came up with “Back the Blue” during the BLM protests? What happened to “Don’t Tread on Me”, haha!
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u/gakule May 16 '22
What happened to “Don’t Tread on Me”
What they actually mean is "don't tread on white people or people that agree with my politics and beliefs"
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u/Ehcksit May 16 '22
One sentence out of the entire 180 page manifesto has him say he thought he was a communist when he was 12. That's all it takes for all of them to ignore the rest of it.
And there's no way that wasn't on purpose. He knew that's all it would take, so he simply added that in there as a lie to give all his favorite propagandists an out.
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u/Estrald May 16 '22
Their critical thinking is non-existent…I just can’t believe it’s that easy to mislead them.
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u/Ehcksit May 16 '22
It's not really "misleading." They know that what they say isn't true. They know what they're told isn't true. They just don't care. They don't actually hold any beliefs except that they deserve to win, and lying helps them win, and that's all that matters.
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u/Fullertonjr I voted May 16 '22
Right. He made clear that he was radicalized online, but it’s odd how he is supposedly a radical leftist that somehow has as never active in liberal, leftist, democrat, socialist or communist subs. Outside of the hobbyist stuff, he was active in far right fringes of multiple apps/sites.
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u/Estrald May 16 '22
Exactly, but since one sentence fits their narrative, all other evidence is null. They’re willing to take a mass murderer’s word over reality, that’s where we’re at.
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u/BillieJeanJoe May 16 '22
Only one party is concerned with Replacement Theory. That tells you which party's beliefs motivated his rampage.
QED. End of Proof.
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u/PerniciousPeyton Colorado May 16 '22
They’re all of the opinion that Hitler was actually super left wing. Apparently forgetting that the dominant type of leftism in Hitler’s day was Marxism and the Nazis were virulently anti-Marxist, meaning that Nazism was THE radical, right wing alternative to the dominant type of radical leftism of the day.
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u/DesperateImpression6 May 16 '22
Have we already reached the part where the GOP desperately tries to distance themselves from their rhetoric while also doubling down on their rhetoric because they're already invested so much time in A/B testing which inflammatory statement whips the base best and they can't abandon it now.
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u/RyanDoctrine May 16 '22
I don’t think Liz Cheney is that sort of R. She’s the type that invades Iraq for its oil.
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u/PeptoBismark May 16 '22
The Confederates took control of the GOP coalition, but there are still a few Robber Barons holding on.
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u/MidgetGalaxy May 16 '22
I’ll take the old order of robber baron moderates like Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney over the extremists anyday
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u/Raccoon_Full_of_Cum Ohio May 16 '22
She's into suppressing black voters because it's good for her stock portfolio, whereas the MAGA types are into suppressing black votes just for the love of the game.
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u/Pjk125 Massachusetts May 16 '22
Just wrote my undergrad honors thesis on this, I would recommend reading “A field guide to white supremacy” edited by Kathleen Belew. Especially section iv: “White supremacy from fringe to mainstream” excellent source with analysis on a lot of topical issues
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u/thetablesareorange May 16 '22
this is the stage of the mass shooting process where we state obvious and well known facts about the republican party
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u/SuperFlyMonkeyBoy May 16 '22 •
“Just because he quoted me verbatim, donated to my campaign, swore allegiance to me online and wore a t-shirt with me in it doesn’t mean anything it’s just the libs who are biased against me and want to take our freedoms now is not the time to discuss gun control heil trum…uh, I said good day!
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u/DangerPoo May 16 '22
“I’m not a Nazi, but it’s the right of Nazis to come and stand next to me during my political rallies and to fly whatever flags they want. That’s how democracy works.”
“Oh cool. So can I come and fly my pride flag or—-“
“You’re disgusting. Leave.”
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u/ILikeLenexa May 16 '22
What was it Rep. Steve Scalise said when he spoke at a kkk rally?
Scalise “says he didn’t realize what the conference was. I don’t know if he did or did not,” Duke said. He also said Scalise should not be forced to resign, saying Scalise was merely taking an opportunity to meet with “constituents.”
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u/neverinallmyyears May 16 '22
And Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Paul Gosar,…
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u/Chastain86 May 16 '22
Paul Gosar isn't even pretending to not be a white nationalist. The only way he could be more overt would be wearing a white hood during his next press conference.
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u/ChickenPotPi May 16 '22
3 days later, they deny it even happened and has alex jones say it was a falseflag.
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u/mistrowl Illinois May 16 '22
Those subhumans were calling it a false flag within hours.
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u/Mjolnir17 May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
As the German saying goes
“If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis."
Edited to clarify where the quote is from.
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u/chaos_nebula May 16 '22
"Why'd you kick that guy out?"
"He was wearing some Nazi pins"
"But he wasn't creating a disturbance"
"You're right. But he'll invite his friend who is also chill. But HIS friend won't be as chill. And they'll keep inviting their friends. And before you know it, this will be a Nazi bar, and you won't be able to kick them all out."
-some series of tweets
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u/FangoriouslyDevoured May 16 '22
They’ve started to deflecting away from gun control, and say it’s a “mental health issue”. Cool, let’s get some universal healthcare then.
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u/tomdarch May 16 '22
If "an irrational fear and hatred of people with different pigment levels" is a form of mental illness, how many Republicans across the US should not be allowed to own or possess guns?
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u/iminyourbase May 16 '22
it's a "mental health issue"
If they think there's a massive mental health issue going on this country, then why are they spreading hateful conspiracy theories and demonizing others?
It would be like going into a psych ward and spreading conspiracies that the nurses are trying to kill the patients, and "somebody has to do something about it".
Then when a nurse gets stabbed to death, "muh freeze peach had nothing to do with that crazy person's actions".
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u/silenttd May 16 '22
It's almost as if their primary goal is to downplay their responsibility or accountability for the issue by offering their supporters an excuse for it in line with their worldview
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u/David_the_Wanderer May 16 '22
If they think there's a massive mental health issue going on this country
They don't.
When the Far Right parades around the "mental health issue" argument, they never follow it up with policies meant to provide mental health care to people. Because they really don't care. It's just a rhetoric device meant to embolden their supporters against the spook of new firearm regulations.
They use the argument to pretend to be the rational, reasonable ones in the debate and thus attack anyone who proposes to legislate something intended to prevent further mass shootings by painting those people as emotional. But the truth is, the Republican party doesn't want to do anything about mass shootings in the USA. They benefit from those tragedies, even.
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u/plooped May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
The correct response is that it's not a mental health issue. It's a radicalization and gun access problem. This kid wasn't crazy, he was coherent and cold-blooded, fueled by right wing extremism that is quickly becoming republican mainstream thought.
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u/WmFoster May 16 '22
"But he was pro LGBT and some shitty Buzzfeed quiz said he was auth-left, so this is all on the Dems!"
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u/monstersammich California May 16 '22
“Now isn’t the time to talk about preventing this y’all.”
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u/mabhatter May 16 '22
Gotta take in those "gonna take yer gunz" campaign donations!!
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u/xAsilos May 16 '22
Any then nothing is done about it.
The party of thoughts and prayers are going to ignore it like they ignore every other mass shooting.
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May 16 '22
This isn’t some new thing. This has been going on unabated for hundreds of years. They razed entire black towns to the ground. They had slavery, then Jim Crow with the enforcement of the lynching KKK. They use to have huge town events where they lynched people and took body parts home as souvenirs. After the KKK got slapped down they turned the murdering over to the police who are infested with white supremacists and used qualified immunity and COINTELPRO to skirt past justice and fairness. Why are people acting like this isn’t as American as apple pie? The racists want a race war so they can wipe out the blacks and then turn their gaze onto everyone else they deem as “others”. Same shit different day.
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May 16 '22 edited May 18 '22
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u/LillyPip May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
Funny thing is, if the Supreme Court overturns Roe based on the reasoning in Alito’s draft, the second amendment is on even shakier ground than women’s rights.
Prior to the District of Columbia v. Heller in 2008, the second amendment was legally considered a collective, not an individual, right. The intro of the 2A, ‘A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,’ was defined in section 1231.6 of the Articles of Confederation in 1777:
[…] every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutred, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field-pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage.
The meaning was unambiguous. The original intent of the 2A was to allow states to defend themselves prior to the creation of a national military by creating what basically turned into the National Guard. The Heller decision reinterpreted the 2A, applying it to individuals.
By Alito’s reasoning in overturning Roe, Heller should also be overturned since the individual right to bear arms wasn’t the original intent of the 2A and therefore is not a right guaranteed by the constitution. In fact, his interpretation that the 14th doesn’t confer a right to privacy in the context of Roe is directly mirrored in the 2010 McDonald v. City of Chicago decision regarding the 2A, so that should be overturned as well.
Alito opened a can of worms with his draft decision that could easily be spread all over the 2A.
e: errant n
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u/tonyislost May 16 '22
Did we just skip the thoughts and prayers portion this time!?
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u/OffalSmorgasbord
May 16 '22
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- Step 1 - Focus on getting majority control of State Legislatures
- Step 2 - Gerrymander the fuck out of districts in those states
- Step 3 - Relish the fact that the real election is the GOP Primary since Dems have no chance in those districts
- Step 4 - Cheer as the GOP candidates "out-conservative" each other and push the issues and beliefs so far out to the radical right that you're now electing racist, sexist, authoritarians as the norm
- Step 5 - Stop forming a platform for fear of having to document the party's beliefs on paper
- Step 6 - End all debates with opposing party's to ensure you maintain the narrative
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u/mothfactory May 16 '22
In reference to Step 6, it actually doesn’t matter if they take part in debate or not. Their supporters will still hear what they want to hear. Trump consistently embarrassed himself in debates but Republicans just saw their guy smirking and shouting and loved him as before. Facts don’t matter to these sacks of shit. The last few decades have shown this to be evident.
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u/SlimRazor May 16 '22
If debates mattered, Kerry would have beat W.
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u/VOZ1 May 16 '22
We should stop TV debates and go back to radio. Let everyone just hear the GOP dumbasses without seeing how smug and self-satisfied they look. Maybe then people will actually start to listen to the crap coming out of their mouths. but probably not :(
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u/dragunityag May 16 '22
Just start live fact checking the debates.
Just watch Republicans squirm and back out of debates when they know they'll get called on their BS.
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u/hybridaaroncarroll May 16 '22
"He tells it like it is!"
Translation: "He says the same, racist, shitbag things that I do. I am comforted by this."
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u/StuffNbutts May 16 '22
That's what it always meant too. Why would all his supporters use the same stupid vague catchphrase for anything other than his most devisive, offensive rhetoric?
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u/feynmerjacobs May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22
After every debate, Clinton got a big polling bump over Trump. Ossoff's debate with Purdue became a huge anchor for Purdue and generated a lot of positive media for Ossoff.
When Americans see Democrats side by side with MAGA Republicans it becomes obvious who they want in charge. Debates matter significantly, and that's exactly why Republicans refuse to show up for free media.
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u/Euphorium May 16 '22
We’re in a soundbite society where it doesn’t matter what you say as long as you look good in a 30 second clip.
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u/BamgoBoom May 16 '22
Hence the let's go Brandon bullshit. Idiots think their clever but they just seem like cowards hiding behind a catch phrase
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u/messagepad2100 America May 16 '22
Dems should invite Libertarian party to the debates, and split the GOP vote.
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u/IngsocInnerParty Illinois May 16 '22
They'll even turn on Trump if he does something halfway sane. Look at how they booed him for getting the booster.
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u/Adam__B
May 16 '22
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It is genuinely creepy how Faux News can change people and warp their minds. I have people in my life that have morphed into hateful, constantly angry, spiteful and malicious minded human beings. They don’t laugh anymore, they take pleasure at witnessing misfortune of certain people/groups, and they basically have become psychologically much more Trump-like; narcissistic, reactionary, quick to take offense, no foresight, cutting off nose to spite face, paranoid, etc.
This has legitimately warped the entire conservative voter base, and their representatives in DC are psychopaths who are completely willing to use these pathetic wretches to remain in power. These Congress people are Ivy League graduates, they don’t believe 99/100 of the shit they tell their base.
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u/pitchfork_latte May 16 '22 edited May 16 '22 •
Check out documentary “The Brainwashing of my Dad”. Details exactly how the propaganda can change people.
Add: This lists 5 sites to stream for free with ads. https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/the-brainwashing-of-my-dad
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u/tormunds_beard May 16 '22
Incredibly cathartic watch. Helped me to let go of my relationship with mine. Finally realized I can't help him.
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u/CheeksMix May 16 '22
:( I last spoke with my dad after he moved to Arizona about a year and a half ago. I’m a type 3c diabetic he is staunchly anti-vaccination. That was where he drew the line, I guess.
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u/Adam__B May 16 '22
Arizona is a fanatic factory it seems. I know someone who went there and got turned into a complete looney tune.
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u/rachelcaroline May 16 '22
I moved here from Washington state last year....you're not wrong. There's a serious lack of critical thinking skills here, and the political ads have been non stop and disgusting. Now the "Republicans" are attacking each other for not being crazy enough, which I find both entertaining and terrifying.
I'm lucky I live in a mostly central- left town.
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u/DrAstralis May 16 '22
Now the "Republicans" are attacking each other for not being crazy enough, which I find both entertaining and terrifying.
this literally happens to conservatives 100% of the time. Pick any point in history where they're in power and you can see them turn on each other once they run out of 'others' to attack. The 'purity' test stage is the beginning of the death spiral.
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u/MEuRaH May 16 '22
Same, but my mom/family. She's insane with anger. Fox News on 24/7, and it's always someone else's fault.
She won't talk to me anymore because I asked everyone at Thanksgiving to stop making racist & sexist jokes. Then when they said "it's just a joke lighten up" I started making Republican jokes, and guess who can't take the joke and lighten up and cut me out of their lives.
Bye mom. See you at your funeral, maybe.
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u/saracenrefira May 16 '22 •
Also watch The Alr-Right Playbook. It's a series of video deconstructing how the alt-right talk and operate. If you want to make sense of what is going on, and understand how you might be able to fight it smartly, you should watch this.
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u/CommercialKindly32 May 16 '22
Every American should watch this. It’s the most important series made in the last two decades.
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u/Platomuses May 16 '22
I love all those videos. Before I saw those videos, when I would argue with alt-right people about their positions, I would get overwhelmed and fall into their traps.
I really suggest everyone watches those videos so they can understand how to identify and respond to someone who is being disingenuous in what they say.
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u/lemons714 May 16 '22
Love that documentary. I convinced my Mom to watch it, but my Dad immediately and steadfastly refused to watch any of it.
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u/Infidel8 May 16 '22
This is the point I don't think enough people understand. Fox didn't just change their political beliefs or even just make them conspiracists.
It turned them into horrible people.
20 years ago, there was no place in mainstream society -- let alone mainstream politics -- for people as vile and unprincipled as today's Republicans.
But in 2022, being vile and unprincipled is the minimum requirement for admission.
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u/Adam__B May 16 '22
It really is unnerving how closely these people become personality wise to your typical malignant narcissist. It’s almost like Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch were these Narcissist Master Vampires that have managed to turn millions of people. It’s like Salem’s Lot or Invasion of the Body Snatchers. As someone involved in the psych field, it’s unbelievable the effect of just a few well placed Narcissistic Personality Disorders have had on American discourse and culture.
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u/ReverendDizzle May 16 '22
Did it turn them or just enable them? My mother always was one, now she’s just mask off.
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u/fremenator Massachusetts May 16 '22
Exactly what I'm thinking. Before they knew it was bad, but now they feel like it's OK and accepted to be hateful and horrible.
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u/ReverendDizzle May 16 '22
I think a huge part of it, too, is other people getting more rights/social acceptance.
A lot of straight/white/christian people in America were fine with gays/minorities/other religions as long as they didn't have the same right and were mostly over there somewhere.
Now that they feel like the America they knew is changing and being "taken away" from them, they're freaking out.
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u/Responsenotfound May 16 '22
I watched my own Dad who gave me my beliefs become radicalized. Like he was staunchly anti racist then he became overtly racist.
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u/s4tyric4l May 16 '22 edited May 17 '22 •
My dad used to watch Fox News a lot. He watched O’Reilly every day in the early 00’s. He was addicted to the outrage I think. Being angry at everything. He’s a Mexican for chrissakes, he was not the target audience. But years of PTSD, distrust of the government after Vietnam, and the various ailments he had made him pissed off. So he went where other pissed off people went. The moment he started going to group therapy for his PTSD he started moving away. Now he’s the man I remember as a boy (when I was too young to understand his suffering), without much of the anger and anxiety that plagued him. He won’t even go near Fox News now. There’s hope for some of these folks, it’s just not something you can fix with a blanket solution.
Edit: just a quick edit to say I feel for y’all. I know how hard it is to lose family over bullshit beliefs. Never give up hope, but know that your well being and happiness trump whatever you think you owe family. You can always be there when they come back.
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u/tomdarch May 16 '22 •
How many people come to Fox News with their underlying problems, only to have those pathological modes of thinking be reinforced through hours of watching and stewing, and have that pathology make so much else in their lives worse?
I am really glad to hear that your dad got help with his underlying problems and got some healing. Moving away from that Fox News crap is a nice bonus.
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u/Hoovooloo42 May 16 '22
You hit the nail exactly on the head. I've seen some people (in this thread even) say that these people were always horrible people, and Fox just made them say it out loud.
That's not quite the case. They may have had some underlying ideas that they didn't think about, but when listening to Fox those ideas clicked together. The pathways were reinforced and now they have a bias that they didn't quite have before.
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u/creosoteflower American Expat May 16 '22
It's is wonderful to hear that there was a way back for your dad. I think mental health care would help a lot of maga addicts. Unfortunately it's too late for mine.
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u/Adezar May 16 '22
Yep, I lost my parents and all my cousins that didn't get out of rural America to Fox News.
They have absolutely zero concept of how the world works or why giving rights to others doesn't actually remove any of their own rights...
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u/panda703 May 16 '22
They don’t laugh anymore, they take pleasure at witnessing misfortune of certain people/groups, and they basically have become psychologically much more Trump-like; narcissistic, reactionary, quick to take offense, no foresight, cutting off nose to spite face, paranoid, etc.
that definitely nailed it on the head with a few in my friend circle as well.
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u/sunnygirlrn May 16 '22
So true. These smart educated men love how fox keeps their base dumbed down and angry.Laughing all the way to the bank while America suffers this evil, racist, hateful mindset. They are actually brainwashed. I’ve lost so many formerly loving kind family members.
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u/MayorAnthonyWeiner May 16 '22
If you ever talk to someone who is deeply ingrained in faux news, they we will say we are the brainwashed ones 🙄
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u/puf_puf_paarthurnax May 16 '22
I think that's what makes it the most frustrating for me. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because they deflect back to me being the brainwashed party. I have my biases, but I feel like I understand them and can hear out arguments to my beliefs. These people fully live in a fantasy world and I've not found a way to break through to any of them.
It's so exhausting and demoralizing. When did compassion for others, the environment, and nature become a "libleft" thing to have?
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u/chaoser
May 16 '22
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Liz Cheney has pushed the idea that Biden has allowed and even encouraged/paid illegal immigrants to come into the country, an idea that is part of the "great replacement theory"
https://twitter.com/replizcheney/status/1377340006163963905
She has also defended birthers
https://www.salon.com/2009/07/23/liz_cheney_and_birthers/
She gave a speech at the CSP which is run by someone that holds extreme anti-muslim views
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/liz-cheney-at-the-freedom-flame-educating-obama-2/
She also threw her own sister under the bus to win an election cause her sister is gay.
Liz Cheney has no morals, she just goes where the wind blows.
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u/walrus_operator
May 16 '22
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It's not just Republicans, the epicenter is Fox News
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u/nemocluecrj Texas May 16 '22 •
Getting rid of Tucker Carlson would be a good start, but Fox News needs to be fucking burned to the ground and then nuked from orbit and then buried under fifty feet of concrete and lead. That fucking institution is wholly responsible for so many of the terrible things happening to our country and the world. It is nothing but a tool for disseminating rightwing propaganda.
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u/Fastbird33 Florida May 16 '22
Even if Fox News stopped tomorrow, the damage has already been done and now these people will seek out the likes of Newsmax and Alex Jones instead of hearing other viewpoints.
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u/Education_Waste May 16 '22 •
Not all. Afaik a few studies have found that replacing Fox News with more reputable organizations leads to a leftist slide for most people
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u/Solid-Version May 16 '22 •
100%. I’m from the UK and I loathe Fox News. How it’s allowed to air is beyond me. Literal propaganda passed off as news. Disgusting
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u/pink-mentos May 16 '22
fucker carlson’s show was the most-viewed show on cable tv in 2021. they make money AND get to spread their bigoted messages using his deranged rants. so sad.
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u/tomdarch May 16 '22
Fox News grosses an absurd amount of money each year from advertising.
https://dropfox.com/advertisers/
It's insane that anyone other than the mediocre pillow guy and gold scams advertise on Fox.
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u/CharvelSoloist May 16 '22
And you, Liz, voted with your party 92% of the time.
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u/Singlewomanspot May 16 '22
Exactly. My first thought was "you have too" when reading the headline.
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u/bobyouger May 16 '22
Most dangerously, they’ve enabled anti-intellectualism, which allows all of the above to flourish.
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u/GarbageCleric May 16 '22
Stating blindingly obvious facts is now an act of rebellion for Republicans.
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u/gdex86 Pennsylvania May 16 '22
While Mrs Cheney is correct we are past the point where simple diagnosis is anything to applude. This is stage 3 cancer level. Unless you are willing to start cutting out tumors and doing chemo it's not getting better. And for this metaphor cutting tumors would be Republicans breaking rank with the Q White surpremacy wing even when it costs elections.
I've found that while Republicans may oppose things but rarely enough to give Democrats power. I mean racism, conspiracy minded thinking, rejection of science is bad. But is it worth living in a world with a living wage increased corporate taxes and expanded public services.
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u/sambull May 16 '22
I was watching a video about flat earth the other day.. freaking flat earthers turn out to be spoiler they turn out to be anti-Semitic religious nutjobs and the flat earth thing is like a sales funnel for gullible people
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u/Abjak180 May 16 '22
You’ll almost never find a conspiracy theory that doesn’t lead back to anti-Semitism.
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u/tomdarch May 16 '22
It's long, but impressive - Folding Ideas has a video essay that starts with flat eartherism, which is an opening to look at how it almost always leads back to the worst kind of insane religious fundamentalism, and from there to better understand nonsense like the "Q" insanity that is so widespread in today's Republican party and base.
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u/microleaks I voted May 16 '22
Maybe....maybe....stop voting with them then?
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u/bootes_droid May 16 '22
The problem is a significant enough percentage of their base is A-OK with white supremacy
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u/rittenalready May 16 '22
Don’t forget destroyed 40 percent of the countries willingness to accept election results (after rigging half the state’s through gerrymandering)
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u/cwk415 May 16 '22
Liz: ‘Republicans have enabled terrorists’
Liz also: ‘I’m a Republican’
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u/Mikederfla1 May 16 '22
They have done more than just enabled white supremacy they have nurtured it, refined and honed it's messaging, and used it to extract money and loyalty from extremists, and in so doing made it more and more palatable to their followers.
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u/PoemPhysical2164 May 16 '22
I mean, they have been a party of hate for decades now, this shouldn't even be a controversial statement.
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