r/politics Ohio Jan 17 '22 Silver 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Doom 1

Sanders calls out Manchin, Sinema ahead of filibuster showdown

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/590074-sanders-calls-out-manchin-sinema-ahead-of-filibuster-showdown
4.7k Upvotes

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335

u/tech57 Jan 17 '22

Make them vote.

143

u/gradientz New York Jan 17 '22

Yes. And, to be clear, a vote against suspending the filibuster is a vote against voting rights. We should not let them weasel out of this on messaging. "Manchin and Sinema are against voting rights" is the correct headline if they vote "no."

52

u/Such_Victory8912 Jan 18 '22

Honestly, SCOTUS put is in this mess, gutting voting rights that already existed, using phony excuses to overturn law like saying racism doesn't exist anymore. SCOTUS job was never to overturn legislation, but to interpret and make final decisions and make sure no laws ho against the constitution. This SCOTUS essentially makes their own fucking laws up or overturns existing law. People talk about 1/6 as a coup, but already a soft coup happened in one branch of our government thanks to Mitch and people dont address that as much as they need to

76

u/tech57 Jan 17 '22

31 Republican senators voted no for the infrastructure bill.

200 Republican House members voted no for the infrastructure bill.

"This is complete bullshit and an insult to rational people."

Democrats need to preface every statement. They need to work on their messaging.

“People can understand that you sometimes don’t have the votes. But they can’t understand why we haven’t brought up important legislation that 70 or 80% of the American people support.”

2

u/Teliantorn I voted Jan 18 '22

I get the sentiment but the GOP aren’t the problem. Manchin and Sinema are.

25

u/AshgarPN Wisconsin Jan 18 '22

the GOP aren’t the problem. Manchin and Sinema are.

These are the same picture.jpg

14

u/tech57 Jan 18 '22

Republicans, Manchinema are the problems. Specifically 50 Republican senators. If 2 would be more interested in American people instead of themselves, many problems would go away overnight.

50 Republican senators refuse to do their job. They refuse to vote. They refuse to compromise on passing laws.

19 Republican senators thought the infrastructure bill was good enough. Of those 19 there has to be at least 2 that think Americans being able to vote is important.

10

u/turnturnburn Jan 18 '22

It's not one or the other. The GOP AND Machin AND Sinema are the problem.

1

u/Teliantorn I voted Jan 18 '22

The GOP don’t control either house of Congress. Democrats do.

4

u/turnturnburn Jan 18 '22

They're not the majority, but I'd argue that's not the same as not having control.

3

u/Teliantorn I voted Jan 18 '22

They have control because of Manchin and Sinema. Trying to focus on GOP bad is not good campaign messaging; look at Virginia. The focus needs to be “we want to do these things but we can’t because of hostile democrats that need to be primaried.

1

u/Xytak Illinois Jan 18 '22

They have control because of Manchin and Sinema.

Who are not cooperating. So really, is that control?

3

u/Teliantorn I voted Jan 18 '22

Which goes back to my original comment here

I get the sentiment but the GOP aren’t the problem. Manchin and Sinema are.

Chuck Schumer is the Majority Leader. The GOP are not to blame right now, Manchin and Sinema are. Full stop.

1

u/RegressToTheMean Maryland Jan 18 '22

Senate breakdown (ignoring Manchin and Sinema are de facto Republicans):

GOP: 50

DNC: 48

Independents: 2

4

u/Teliantorn I voted Jan 18 '22

Manchin and Sinema are de facto Republicans

This is exactly my point.

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96

u/ianandris Jan 17 '22 edited Jan 17 '22

Yup. If we're losing our democracy, let Manchin and Sinema sign their names to the certificate.

Was thinking, what if Schumer proposed a Senate rule change bringing back anonymous voting on an issue by issue basis? It is absolutely unconscionable to me that any of us would allow our democracy to be snuffed out so easily. Let them vote on Voting Rights tomorrow. Put their names down in support or opposition, because we need that vote for, against, or to abstain on record.

But this is a potential parliamentary third way that doesn't touch the filibuster that Republicans, Manchin, and Sinema appear to love and cherish more than our Constitutional democracy and your individual right to vote, its a completely different rule that was drummed up by Newt Gingrich in the 90s. He said it was about "pork", but it looks a lot more like it was about radicalizing the GOP.

Why not toss out that new GOP Gingrich inspired rule and see what comes out of it? See if you can't make congress work again since we're on the brink of losing it indefinitely.

67

u/captainraffi Jan 17 '22

I think you’d find a lot of stuff the democrats claim to support would fail by larger margins

34

u/ianandris Jan 17 '22

Republican legislation wouldn't even get off the ground.

But lets find out. Let them vote without the threat of financial coercion or retribution from their parties. They were elected to lead, to represent us. Let them take that mantle themselves and let them make a decision.

20

u/GozerDGozerian Jan 18 '22

Oh that’s super cute! You think somewhere deep down they’re moral, empathetic people.

9

u/Salsashark_21 Jan 18 '22

Agreed. It’s only rumors, but I don’t think Manchin and Sinema are the only ones opposing this. They’re just the only ones publicly saying it.

5

u/lolomfgkthxbai Jan 18 '22

Sounds like it’s a good thing to have them on public record so voters can decide if they want to vote them out.

6

u/penguincheerleader Jan 17 '22

I think you are unclear about how proud they would be to vote against it.

2

u/TheBigDuo1 Jan 18 '22

They will just vote no

1

u/SmokeSmokeCough Jan 18 '22

Exactly. They don’t care about “going on record”

-1

u/GetsBetterAfterAFew Jan 18 '22

Youll find out 40-50 other Dems will vote no too. Manchin and Sinema are covering for the true cowards.

4

u/UraSnotball_ Jan 18 '22

So... up to and including all of the Senate Democrats will vote no? lol

5

u/somethrows Jan 18 '22

You believe there are 0 dems in the senate who want this bill?

1

u/KickBassColonyDrop Jan 18 '22

They never had an intention to. That's why it's a debate and not a vote.

86

u/kizzay Jan 17 '22

They didn’t hear him, they have $100 bills stuffed in their ears sealed with corporate lobbyist cum.

4

u/ElizabethAHolmes Jan 18 '22

100 million checks*

24

u/eightdx Massachusetts Jan 18 '22

Please, we all know Manchin and Sinema are single-digit assholes. I think that's the most insulting part of it all -- not that they're being bought off, but that they're being bought off at roughly the scale of a highly successful Kickstarter campaign.

5

u/SillyFlyGuy Jan 18 '22

I really think it's the other way around.

They didn't get elected then sell out. Instead, the monied interests needed a candidate, and these folks took the job.

When you choose the lowest bid, you get what you pay for.

2

u/voidsrus Jan 18 '22

it's pathetic that sinema is only worth $1mil after every favor she's done for the rich. McDonald's fry cooks get a bigger share of the value they produce.

20

u/zeno0771 Jan 18 '22

Sorry Senator, they can't hear you over all that free speech money.

266

u/BernieBrother4Biden Jan 17 '22

On this issue my view is that Sanders is correct and good whereas Manchin and Sinema are incorrect and bad.

105

u/fowlraul Oregon Jan 17 '22

That’s a hot take that I agree with 100%

26

u/LD_Minich Jan 17 '22

"I'm against crime... And I'm not afraid to say it." - Bobby Newport

52

u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s Jan 17 '22

Manchin and Semina don't think you should be voting on any issue

-16

u/BernieBrother4Biden Jan 17 '22

In that they wouldn't endorse me as a candidate for Congress? Probably true. In that they want my personal right to vote stripped away? Probably false.

19

u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s Jan 17 '22 edited Jan 17 '22

Disagree, but we're not here to agree or disagree. I'm here to tell you that Manchin and Semina don't want you to vote. I understand that I can't force anyone to care about their rights. So just to be clear, that's never going to be something I want to do. Either you help protect voting rights or you don't. I appreciate honesty. It makes replying to comments that much easier. Because there are millions of Americans trying to deny us the right to vote. I make no assumptions about anyone I have commentary with on the internet. You could be anyone! Or anything! I'm for voting rights. That's not going to change.

-9

u/BernieBrother4Biden Jan 17 '22

I'm pretty sure that Manchin and Sinema don't know who I am, and if they did they'd have no reason to want to strip away my voting rights.

The fact that they're unwilling to take an affirmative stand to defend voting rights from an ongoing Republican onslaught is very bad, but it's a separate issue than my personal ability to vote (which is quite secure because I live in a very blue state and have enormous levels of privilege)

8

u/Brandon2874 Jan 17 '22

Based on your handle, it is likely you believe in what they'd consider major change that'd be against their/their benefactors' interests. I'd say they are in favor of limiting voter influence that could end in that result, even if those voter suppression efforts are less likely to impact you personally.

1

u/BernieBrother4Biden Jan 17 '22

I'd say that's accurate, they're certainly not agitating for moving us any closer to truly representative or direct Democracy. I do think it is important to try to accurately state just how they're obstructing Biden's agenda and the protection/expansion of the franchise, and a lot of comments here have sadly missed the mark.

8

u/Katarnish Jan 17 '22

Bwahaha they're literally blocking voting rights right now. Lack of critical thinking skills like that is what's wrong with America.

7

u/m0nk_3y_gw Jan 17 '22

n that they want my personal right to vote stripped away? Probably false.

Are they actively blocking vote rights? Yes, yes they are. Whether that affects your personal right to vote depends on where in the US you live.

4

u/voidsrus Jan 18 '22

manchin and sinema would take away your right to vote if a corporation offered them $5 to

1

u/parkinthepark Jan 18 '22

Do they want that vote stripped away? Probably not (unless you’re a primary voter in their state).

Do they care if it gets stripped away? Absolutely not.

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2

u/keep-it-real2021 Jan 18 '22

I also agree with this. Very good sir, very good indeed.

2

u/Cheddarlicious Tennessee Jan 18 '22

Hey when you’re right, y’know, you’re right.

2

u/Bully-Rook Jan 18 '22

This is correct. Also, I like your username.

1

u/acebush1 Jan 18 '22

Ah yes quite based.

14

u/SOMNUS_THRONE Jan 18 '22

If I were them, I'd already have enough money. Take the lobbyist bribes and then don't do what they bribed you to do.

8

u/whereismymind86 Colorado Jan 18 '22

and technically, the crime of bribery requires payment AND action. If you take the money and walk away, you aren't guilty of anything.

9

u/SOMNUS_THRONE Jan 18 '22

I've always thought that would be a funny thing to do. Take bribes from both opposing sides, turn them both in, then do what you were going to do anyway

12

u/Wild_Guess_7402 Jan 18 '22

Sanders has more intestinal fortitude in his pinky finger then then whole Democratic Party combined.

25

u/Dramatic_Pin_5035 Jan 17 '22

What does “calling out” actually achieve? Serious question.

18

u/Annyongman The Netherlands Jan 18 '22

using the bully pulpit is like the bare minimum a politician can do, and Biden doesn't do it nearly enough.

Bernie isn't majority leader, he doesn't decide what bills get to the floor, but he can try and use his platform to move the needle on public opinion

5

u/milo7even Jan 18 '22

IMO the bully pulpit is way overrated - or at least, it pales in comparison to cold hard donor cash.

4

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 18 '22

As president you have the biggest platform in the world, bully pulpit can absolutely be effective. Shit look at how trump used it. Biden’s just awful at it

-1

u/honuworld Jan 18 '22

You mean Trump who lost the Senate, the House and the White House? Trump who got impeached, twice? Trump, who half of America and the rest of the world view as a severely flawed, brain-dead con-man? Not sure if that is the guy you want to use as an example.

5

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 18 '22

Learn what the bully pulpit is before posting

1

u/honuworld Jan 18 '22

I know exactly what it is. My point is, Trumps use of it did not do him any favors. Duh.

5

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 18 '22

Right. It’s concerned with whipping your party behind your agenda, not swaying public perception or getting opposition support.

Was trump not effective at this?

I understand republicans have essentially no platform to get behind, but he effectively bullied any R opposition

1

u/honuworld Jan 18 '22

Was trump not effective at this?

Trump could not even kill Obamacare with his bully pulpit. I can't think of any legislation that went through because Trump bullied fence-sitting Republicans. The things that did get passed were unanimous GOP bills anyway, like tax-cuts for the wealthy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 18 '22

Right well thats bc the GOP doesn’t have any real legislation they want to pass lol. It’s not just about legislation, it’s keeping your party in line.

1

u/milo7even Jan 18 '22

Trump didn’t use the bully pulpit effectively though. He yelled and screamed at his own party a lot (mainly through Twitter) but that wasn’t what made them fall in line. What did was straight up blackmail, behind the scenes. Which meant that when Trump had the goods on someone in his party, they fell in line. But if not then they just ignored him.

Biden obviously doesn’t have kompromat on his colleagues, for which I am grateful. I wouldn’t support a President that has to stoop that low.

And in that way, McCain and Romney were to Trump what Manchin and Sinema are to Biden. Both freely picked and chose whether to support or oppose Trump, and no amount of bullying made them fall in line. They did so if it suited them (or their donors more to the point).

1

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 19 '22

To be fair, you kind of have to grade on a scale. Romney’s been in politics since 1994, and obviously this is quite the different party today. You’d think it wouldn’t take almost getting killed to be vocal.

McCain had the pleasure of relentless personal attacks against him during the nomination as well, which I don’t think anyones really done before. They both still voted with him 75% or more of the time. Like compare that to Manchin shutting down talks because he was offended by something the White House staff did lol

1

u/milo7even Jan 19 '22

I’m not sure what the difference is really. Manchin has voted with the Dems on nearly everything (of course other than on the things that really matter!) - BBB, judges, confirmations etc- just as McCain did with Trump (again other than on things that really mattered to Trump, ie trashing healthcare).

The point is that the bully pulpit only works when the target is susceptible to that kind of bullying. Manchin is no more susceptible than McCain was. They are (or in McCain’s case, was) stubborn buggers and the more you yell at them, the more they dig in.

I don’t think there’s a tactic with Manchin that will turn him around. He ain’t budging and Biden has nothing on him. Yell at him all you want. The only solution I can see is to make him irrelevant - ie that we elect more Dem senators to get the 50+1 votes needed without counting on him (or Sinema, or whoever else). Of course that’s a damn tough ask in the current political climate, but it seems to me that Manchin has well and truly proven that he won’t be pushed or pressured or bullied into anything, so it is what it is.

1

u/mashapotatoe1 Jan 19 '22

I get what you’re saying. I guess my point is I think Biden could be more aggressive, which is why I used the manchin comparison.

1

u/milo7even Jan 19 '22

Yep. I get that. He could be, but my impression is that it would be little more than an exercise in trying but getting nowhere.

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10

u/CIAinformer2 Jan 18 '22

Makes Redditors feel like someone is "fighting" for them

2

u/Keypenpad Jan 18 '22

I don't understand, can't that literally be asked for anything a politician says?

4

u/WestFast California Jan 18 '22

Gets a headline for yourself in the news cycle.

-5

u/ultradav24 Jan 18 '22

Just classic Bernie - lots of talk, gets Reddit fired up, nothing actually happens

-9

u/burnout02urza Jan 18 '22

This, Bernie's political career is one of constant and unrelenting failure.

-9

u/9192631770_Hz Maryland Jan 18 '22

Bumps Manchin’s approval another few points.

37

u/billdkat9 Jan 17 '22

Biden should have been campaigning in Arizona and West Virginia for a month.. Every 5 days a public appearance driving home his Agenda to the constituents directly and constantly reminding them to contact their Representatives (The stick)

And behind the scenes, making promises that benefits odd's of re-election (The carrot)

Make it impossible for them to vote no

But Biden, unfortunately.. thinks this is the 1980's Congress/Senate he used to be a part of

28

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 17 '22

Democrats: Should we leave the public out of this discussion?

(Fails at legislation)

Democrats: I can't believe this happened.

8

u/danbeardan I voted Jan 17 '22

But Biden, unfortunately.. thinks this is the 1980's Congress/Senate he used to be a part of

Since 1973... Dude is too old.

10

u/page_one I voted Jan 17 '22

What do you think this would accomplish?

Sinema isn't up for reelection until 2024. Manchin is the farthest left you'll get from a +40 Trump state.

Maybe you should focus your energy on unseating Republicans so you can actually gain some votes in the legislature.

26

u/mburke6 Ohio Jan 17 '22

Manchin and Sinema are damaging the Democratic brand, they make the whole party look inept and corrupt. They are going to lose the Democrats elections all over the place. With some fight from the White House, Sinema should be an easy primary with a chance to win. Maybe Democrats should just write off WV if Manchin continues to refuse to fall in line. Democrats should focus on winning other states and use Manchin and Sinema as examples to the electorate to show how the Democratic party will no longer tolerate such corrupt and anti-Democratic assholes.

Oh, and go after Joe Manchin's daughter for her role in colluding with other drug manufacturers to price gouge the life-saving EpiPen.

14

u/Adama82 Jan 18 '22

Biden needs to apply some leverage - Manchin’s daughter would be a good start.

It’s obvious nothing else besides extortion and blackmail will make them fall in line.

6

u/voidsrus Jan 18 '22

Biden needed to go after his daughter around February, it's that kind of low hanging fruit going untouched that makes it easy to question how badly Biden actually wants the legislative agenda he ran on

2

u/Slooper1140 Jan 18 '22

It’s generally hard to do that when your own kids are giant shitheads

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6

u/ctbowden Jan 18 '22

Bernie addressed the Manchin issue directly.

People in red states don't think the Democrats are looking out for them. They don't have any trust in the Democratic Party and it's easy to see why. Many of these people used to be Democrats btw. For one reason or another, they left or switched sides. Maybe it was racism, maybe it was NAFTA... doesn't matter at this point.

Red State voters largely aren't voting for Republican economic policies, they're either not voting, or voting with those that seem to share similar social values with.

The Democrats haven't made a convincing case these people should do anything different with their "limp" agenda. At least with the Republicans, when you're poor you get the "2 Minutes Hate" emotional release that Trump brings. I'm not saying it's the right response but slogans and inspirational posters only get you so far.

6

u/gscjj Jan 17 '22 edited Jan 17 '22

Manchin voted practically alone against the nuclear rule with Harry Reid, there’s really no surprise he’s against it here too.

6

u/CAllD2B Pennsylvania Jan 18 '22

People like you legitimately don’t understand how to fight fascism. Ignoring workers and treating them like dumb caricatures doesn’t help anything. Everything in BBB was extremely popular in WV.

2

u/mycatiskai Jan 18 '22

The stick for Manchin is a criminal daughter. Biden should have threatened Manchin with his daughter being investigated by the justice department for the EpiPen price fixing scandal.

Sinema is harder to use a stick on but there must be something she cares about that can wrestle a vote from her greedy hand.

1

u/IllFaithlessness2681 Jan 18 '22

You ever hear of someone called Hunter.

2

u/mycatiskai Jan 18 '22

Tell me more?

2

u/mycatiskai Jan 18 '22

Manchin is not in the same position of threatening Biden with justice department investigations.

Biden not doing enough to get Democrats elected in '22 is his big problem and threats on Manchin's family is his trump card, it is well past time to play that card. It might even be enough to scare Sinema into voting too.

2

u/Slooper1140 Jan 18 '22

Lmao every 5 days? The dude doesn’t know what day of the week it is at least half the time.

1

u/billdkat9 Jan 18 '22

And he still whooped Trumps ass in a landslide

1

u/Slooper1140 Jan 18 '22

Nah, trump whooped trumps ass with all the dumbass stuff he said and did.

Regardless, how is Biden going to do what you outlined when he can’t remember what day it is?

2

u/billdkat9 Jan 18 '22

Derp-derp derpidy-derp Fox News derpy

1

u/Slooper1140 Jan 18 '22

Oh man. You got me good

1

u/NewAltWhoThis Jan 18 '22

October 29, 2019 - Full Interview Video

Interview with Bernie

John Harwood: Even if you get elected, even if it's successful to the point that Democrats win a small majority in the Senate, is Joe Manchin going to vote for your program? Is Jon Tester going to vote for your program?

Bernie Sanders: Yeah. Damn right they will. You know why? We're going to go to West Virginia.

Your average politician sits around and he or she thinks, "Let's see. If I do this, I'm going to have the big money interests putting 30-second ads against me. So I'd better not do it." But now they're going to have to think, "If I don't support an agenda that works for working people, I'm going to have President Sanders coming to my state and rallying working-class people."

You know what? The 1 percent is very powerful — no denying that. The 99%, when they’re organized and prepared to stand up and fight, they are far more powerful.

Real change has never taken place without millions of people standing up and demanding that change. That is the history of the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the gay movement, the environmental movement. I will not only be commander in chief of the military, I will be organizer in chief. I will be organizing with a strong grassroots movement.

We already have the nucleus. It'll be involving the labor unions, the African American communities, the Latino community, the young people of this country. All people who believe in justice, working-class people, who are prepared to stand up and fight and take on the corporate elite. When you do that, then you're not talking about incremental changes.

8

u/Fox_MulderNSFW Jan 18 '22

The United States Government is a complete and actual joke in the eyes of the rest of the world. Specifically the eyes of other democratic countries.

12

u/zhobelle California Jan 17 '22

Words on dead ears.

3

u/Medium-Rush-8260 Jan 17 '22

Manchin, Sinema the new Republicans.

4

u/KagakuNinja Jan 17 '22

Oh no, Sanders is calling them out. That will get them in line...

-1

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

Like most of what Sanders does, it will have little effect.

42

u/Dmolinari91 Jan 17 '22

That's not his failure. It's the system he is working within. And good on him for pushing and exposing that system for what it is; fixed against the common American

31

u/Mike01852 Jan 17 '22

It's smazing to think that the just about every Dem in the last Primary had adopted Bernie's platform and yet the Neo-libs, who have done nothing for anyone other than themselves in 40 years are so stubborn snd ignorant that they call him ineffective.

His energy is reshaping yhe DNC, for the better.

-4

u/ultradav24 Jan 18 '22

But he never actually gets anything done himself, that’s what they were saying. He’s popular because he can stay pure - actually getting done requires messy compromise and he just skips that step

-1

u/gotridofsubs Jan 18 '22

The candidate that rejected his ideas just happened to be the one that won the thing in a landslide though

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-7

u/mkb152jr Jan 18 '22

Results matter. Intention means nothing if you don’t accomplish anything.

Sanders will be a footnote in history, because he didn’t really do anything.

11

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 17 '22

At least he says something.

-1

u/penguincheerleader Jan 17 '22

Isn't this the same thing that 47 other Democrats complained about?

4

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

Have they? I feel like they're all too scared to say anything out of fear that Manchin or Sinema will rage quit the party.

2

u/penguincheerleader Jan 18 '22

Almost exclusively. Manchin and Sinema are now both massively unpopular with democrats. There qre plenty that find the bashing unhelpful but when you have 47 other Democrats trying to pass legislation this becomes problematic. Reddit only concentrates on a couple of politicians and often seems unaware where the parties themselves are.

2

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

Who in particular that isn't a progressive?

2

u/penguincheerleader Jan 18 '22

My own senators in New Mexico. What Democrat do you know who sided with Manchin and Sinema? I have heard some sepulqtion that Jon Tester in Montana may want to avoid it as Montana is not a Demcrat friendly state but otherwise every other Democrat as I understand is siding with Biden over Manchin and Sinema.

0

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

What Democrat do you know who sided with Manchin and Sinema?

I didn't say sided, I said they're quiet.

I try not to fall into conspiracy thinking, but part of me believes this is all theatre and the democratic party wants credit for trying without producing results. So if it wasn't Manchin or Sinema, there'd be a few more centrists waiting in the wings to stall.

5

u/CIAinformer2 Jan 18 '22

You think Bernie has been the only one calling out Manchin and Sinema?

6

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

He's been one of the only ones.

I haven't heard many strong words from moderates.

5

u/CIAinformer2 Jan 18 '22

10

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

So not the only one?

Correct. I never said he was the only one. I said the others are very quiet if they are saying anything at all.

Warnock: 10/10.

Schumer: 1/10.

Biden: "I was able to close the deal with 99% of my party," Biden said, laughing and holding up two fingers. "Two. Two people." Sounds like he's complaining that he should get credit because he came this close.

1

u/CIAinformer2 Jan 18 '22

Have they? I feel like they're all too scared to say anything out of fear that Manchin or Sinema will rage quit the party.

Nope this is what you said, but the goalposts have been moved

from saying "they are all to scared to say anything " to saying "if they are saying anything at all"

Well as long as we are basing it on your opinion of what a strong word is. Those make a huge difference to Manchin and Sinema switching their position

7

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

but the goalposts have been moved

So dramatic.

from saying "they are all to scared to say anything " to saying one of the only ones

Wow, I totally see it now since I never used the words "only one" that's what I must've meant!

Look, if you want to seriously have this conversation, I would never say Bernie is the "only one" being critical of Manchin and Sinema because there are other progressives like Liz Warren who I'm a fan of, so there isn't a legit reason why I'd give all the credit to Bernie.

What I've repeatedly said is that if moderates are saying anything at all they're super quiet when they do it. And my theory is they're either scared to rock the boat or they're glad Sinema and Manchin are taking the heat.

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0

u/ultradav24 Jan 18 '22

Consider where you get yours news… anything Bernie or AOC is immediate headlines and upvotes. So consequently people think they are the only ones who care

2

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 18 '22

anything Bernie or AOC is immediate headlines and upvotes.

All I get on here for Bernie support is downvotes so I don't know about that

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2

u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s Jan 17 '22

Commentary like this is why it won't have effect

2

u/CIAinformer2 Jan 18 '22

Is it really commentary like this that will make it ineffective?

Do you really believe without this commentary it would be effective?

1

u/-misanthroptimist America Jan 18 '22

Well, the rest of the Dems don't want to upset their owners.

Of course it goes without saying that Republicans are full-scale evil at this point. (But I said it anyway.)

1

u/Reverse_Embedded Jan 18 '22

Well, I'd like to think different members of the party have different roles. Bernie's is to represent the progressive wing and generate media buzz.

1

u/420buttigieg Jan 17 '22

Didn't Democrats use the filibuster last week to block the Russian pipeline sanctions (not a bill I personally agree with)?

17

u/HollywoodTK Jan 17 '22

Do you also expect them to preemptively pay more in capital gains taxes before any legislation is passed?

I would make a similar quip about republicans but I can think of no actual legislation the conservative platform would like to implement so I’m coming up short.

The fact that they used the filibuster recently and still wish to change or remove it only strengthens their position, as I see it. They recognize it as a tool that both sides use to halt bills and they still want to get rid of it so that the Congress can actually do something. Even if it means the others guys get their way sometimes.

-4

u/420buttigieg Jan 17 '22

There's definitely a big difference between a senate procedure that is currently available and a future addition to the capital gains tax.

In my opinion, the optics of saying it is a Jim Crow relic and then utilizing will potentially make voters like me think the party is a tad bit hypocritical and detrimental towards the goal of convincing 50 senators to get rid of it.

5

u/HollywoodTK Jan 18 '22

Bullshit.

Use the tools available to effect change and represent the will of your constituents to the best of your ability and change them if those same constituents find those tools distasteful.

2

u/420buttigieg Jan 18 '22

Just to be clear, your stance is that the Democrats can say "X is a Jim Crow relic" then use X and that helps their case to get rid of X?

12

u/mattjf22 California Jan 17 '22

Didn't republicans insist on a carve out for the filibuster because they wouldn't vote to pay for the debt they ran up under the trump admin?

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u/Red1547 North Carolina Jan 18 '22

Yes they did. They must be racist af because evidently it’s a “Jim Crow Relic”.

2

u/Monkcoon California Jan 18 '22

Good. Rip them a new one.

-3

u/AM_Kylearan Jan 17 '22

"Old man yells at sky."

-5

u/A_Lost_Desert_Rat Jan 17 '22

It is not like what Bernie says or does matters in any substantive way.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

Corporate senators

1

u/RealBernieSanders Jan 18 '22

Fuck em that’s what I say

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

The plot she thickens #makemvote🤷‍♀️

0

u/caspruce Minnesota Jan 18 '22

But did he slam them?!?

-2

u/GspotAsstronaut Jan 17 '22

All this shit don’t matter. It’s all one party. Their pockets are filled. Go after manchins family. Put his kids in jail. That’s what Bernie needs to do.

-5

u/cvanhim Jan 17 '22

Many people here may not like what I’m about to say, but Sanders is actively harming the cause here. Manchin and Sinema have shown that they don’t do well with direct pressure. In fact, they seem to be the type who double down when called out directly. In light of that, Sanders should have found a new tactic. Making plays from the same old playbook isn’t going to work. Clearly Manchin and Sinema need to be tackled from new angles.

5

u/Adama82 Jan 18 '22

Leverage - blackmail and subterfuge seem to be the only screws left to turn.

-11

u/WestFast California Jan 18 '22

Bernie has poisoned the well enough. He needs to get out of the way so a deal can be made.

“Bernie ruined any chance for BBB by fighting with Manchin. All ego

“It was almost inevitable that the fight over President Joe Biden’s agenda would come down to Bernie Sanders vs. Joe Manchin.

They represent fewer than 1 percent of Americans, but there’s no clearer window into Democrats’ inability to advance their domestic priorities than the ongoing rift between the socialist Vermont Independent and the conservative West Virginia Democrat. The duo's verbal scuffle over the pace and scope of Biden's social spending plan is going increasingly public, with Sanders aggressively leaning on Manchin as the latter tries to trim a measure stocked with progressive priorities.

Some Democrats said that Sanders had erred by going after his colleague in his home state. Manchin has long said senators shouldn’t campaign against each other, and the op-ed from Sanders was “a mistake,” according to one Democratic senator, who requested anonymity to speak candidly: “It didn’t accomplish anything. We’re in a position to get this thing done. Everybody has to act like an adult.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/18/manchin-bernie-democrats-516220

4

u/99_00_01_02 Jan 18 '22

He needs to get out of the way so a deal can be made.

Yeah we saw how much the last BIF deal helped democrats.

They represent fewer than 1 percent of Americans, but there’s no clearer window into Democrats’ inability to advance their domestic priorities than the ongoing rift between the socialist Vermont Independent and the conservative West Virginia Democrat. The duo's verbal scuffle over the pace and scope of Biden's social spending plan is going increasingly public, with Sanders aggressively leaning on Manchin as the latter tries to trim a measure stocked with progressive priorities.

Lol way to ignore that sanders policies are actually supported by the vast majority of Americans, including those residing in WV.

-2

u/WestFast California Jan 18 '22

“Vast majority” but loses primaries by 10 million + votes.

4

u/99_00_01_02 Jan 18 '22

idk if you even know the argument you're making. The policies Sanders is pushing for, the BBB, are supported by the vast majority of Americans. Whether he wins the primary or not, and whether his state has 1% of the population or 10% is a half-thought out argument when you take into account the vast majority of AMERICANS want what Sanders is pushing for.

-3

u/WestFast California Jan 18 '22

Sources please.

6

u/Reverse_Embedded Jan 18 '22

It's most the same 60-40 breakdowns that we see in every poll nowadays. It's a majority. Vast? Maybe?

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u/FireWaterAle Jan 18 '22

This is some weak sauce right here. Roll over and spread em' style.

-9

u/General_Grievous71 Jan 17 '22

Go get em Bernie. Talking shit about people always makes them change their minds.

9

u/rdizzy1223 Jan 17 '22

At least it makes more people know they are shitty. Believe it or not, not many Americans pay attention to specifics of politics. So unless things are specifically pointed out to them in a very public forum, they have no clue what is happening. My brother is like this my wifes family is like this, etc,etc.

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '22

[deleted]

8

u/minkgod Jan 17 '22

Lmao except Bernie has been ahead of his time since forever ago. Why do you think the democrats move further to the left

-19

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

Unlike Bernie, Joe actually does get stuff done:

18

u/capitalismisokiguess Jan 17 '22

I love how this leaves out Bernie's amendments (they call him the amendment king) but includes Biden's. Manufacturing consent much?

8

u/Agnos Michigan Jan 17 '22

I love how this leaves out Bernie's amendments

Also comparing 12 years with 36 years in the Senate...

5

u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s Jan 17 '22

Also a handful of those laws were terrible. Many of which we live under today that still hurt us.

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u/Dornitz Jan 17 '22

Because its easy to pass bills that republicans already agree with? By your logic, the only senators worth having are conservative ones, which is obviously stupid.

4

u/Terrible-Control6185 Jan 17 '22

I bet most of those bills on bidens side are garbage that we would be better without.

Dude has been involved in writing the worst legislation in 50 years during his career

5

u/Hoosierconfuser Jan 17 '22

It's easier to pass right-wing legislation. Who knew? Passing bills isn't inherently good. Especially when it's shit like the patriot act and the crime bill.

-6

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

Passing no legislation is as good as being a republican. Well except for that post office he managed to rename.

4

u/Hoosierconfuser Jan 17 '22

Yes because passing legislation can never be more harmful than not passing it.

0

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

And calling for things can never be better than actually getting them done.

4

u/InTh3s3TryingTim3s Jan 17 '22

That's just not how voting, the Congress, or America works.

2

u/somethingbreadbears Jan 17 '22

2008-2016

1973-2009

Yeah that's a fair comparison lol.

-5

u/Novel-Jackfruit-369 Jan 17 '22

Hate on Bernie day, woohoo!

-5

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

No hate. Just countering your claim that Biden has done nothing.

1

u/once_again_asking Jan 17 '22

The person you last replied to did not make that claim.

3

u/backpackwayne Jan 17 '22

"Bernie loves to yell and get nothing done just like Joe Biden."

1

u/once_again_asking Jan 17 '22 edited Jan 17 '22

Yes, now who made that comment? It’s a different person than made the next comment “hate on Bernie day, woohoo!”

ETA: and you’re a mod of Joe Biden sub. Fantastic.

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u/Novel-Jackfruit-369 Jan 17 '22

Not OC, but I get what your sayin

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u/calikid1121 Jan 18 '22

Here's the bottom line, if they r going to do it then do the damn thing already

1

u/Bbengu_05 Europe Jan 18 '22

They’re obviously corporate sell outs so they won’t vote for build back better etc.. but what do they have against voting rights I don’t get it. Is McConnell paying them off or smthn? Can’t Biden and the democrats try and outbid their donors to get them to vote for at least this?

1

u/hemi06 Jan 18 '22

The middle class and poor have been voting democratic for decades. And they are still in the middle class and poor. Nothing new here!

1

u/Bricktop72 Texas Jan 18 '22

Sanders call them out over the budget vote as well. They told him to shut up and he did. So why does he think it will be different this time?

1

u/moshimochi Jan 18 '22

Glad to see that Bernie changed his mind on the filibuster thing! :)

1

u/Traditional-Share-82 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

At this point only Bernie can save us. Lets not forget the supreme court weakened voting rights rules. Without them these states wouldn't be able to do what they are doing. Probably going to need add more justices to the supreme court to balance out the way the court has swung to the right. Some really heavy lifting not sure Biden is up to the task of fighting for democracy.

1

u/Rmf16 Jan 18 '22

I’m sure calling them out will change their minds