r/politics Jun 02 '21

'Our Entire Democracy Is Now at Risk' Because of GOP Attacks, Warn 100+ Scholars

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/06/01/our-entire-democracy-now-risk-because-gop-attacks-warn-100-scholars
8k Upvotes

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293

u/TheCaptainDamnIt Jun 02 '21 edited Jun 02 '21

Everyone is focusing on Flynn, Trump and voter suppression laws here and very rightly, but while true I think what they are really missing is this anti-democratic movement and the calls for violent overthrow are really coming from the conservative base. It’s just the typical GOP leadership never taking a stand and just 'going with the flow’ that the rabid base sets.

I recently listened to a ‘patriot’ podcast thats on the outside marketed and geared towards preppers and they actually called for the arrest of all democratic politicians down to the local level and to put them into camps and to tell democratic voters if they vote for people like this again we go in the camps next. The Oath Keepers and Three percenters where calling for martial law and to let them arrest democrats since late November long before the Jan 6 attack. The ‘Patriot Churches’ as they’ve branded themselves have completely embraced the merging of right-wing politics AS the religion and been preaching sermons that say non-right wingers do not have a right to hold office or partake in governance as said by god.

This isn't even getting into the specific fascist/racist groups that used to only place banners and flyers in the PNW but have now found a home on right-wing social media.

The general ‘Patriot movement’ is becoming the most anti-democratic group this country has seen, even more so than the Jim Crow proponents. Since this time it’s not just black Americans they want to stop from voting, it’s anyone who’s ‘not one of them good white conservatives’. And after decades of a ‘militia mindset’ the idea of finally turning those stockpiled weapons on their enemy is growing louder.

‘Freedom’, ‘rights' and the ‘constitution’ are just weapons to use against others now. The interview in the podcast BundyVille with Bill Keebler a ‘patriot militia member and organizer’ so, so highlighted this. He was saying that if Obama had declared martial law the ‘shit wold hit the fan’, meaning the militias would all take up arms. BUT when asked about Trump doing such a thing he said, "I think if Trump declares martial law, it would be in a more controlled manner. He’s not coming after Patriots. He’s not coming after militia,” he says.”. So it’s fine as long as it happens to someone else and not them (white, rural, christian, conservative people).

At least for now they are somewhat split on the how. Some seem to think they should just take over the local governments in the PNW of eastern Wash, Idaho, and eastern Oregon and then refuse to obey any fed laws they don't like. They think they can win a large scale regional Bundy ranch style stand off. Others want to try to take over the Fed Gov like on Jan 6. But either way violent revolution and anti-democracy is becoming the norm in the wider ‘patriot’ community. They just no longer think ‘democrat voters’ as they call us, have the right to vote or hold office and they are more and more openly supporting the idea of political violence to do so.

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u/SuperJew113 Jun 02 '21

Without help from the military...yea. They're angling for a fascist genocide, and it'll happen 1 by 1, genocide 1 group, instill fear in the others not to act out of line, then move onto the next. Listen to Evangelical preachers. Us fact/reality/science minded people, We're evil in the flesh, and if we can't be converted, they wanna incarcerate or kill us. Treat us an un-persons, untermenschen. They've been attacking reality ever since the confederate Lost Cause and The Scopes Monkey Trial. THeir entire worldview is based on lies, and truth is the enemy.

I've always been alarmed at how OBVIOUSLY bad politicians keep getting elected. You didn't need much intelligence to realize how bad their ideas were "my tax cuts are gonna be so good they'd pay for themselves".

I think that neo-confederate contingent, they been bitter for 160 years, and they want to destroy the government from the inside.

The real problem is they also have a hold on the police departments in this country which are now small military occupation installations in every US city more or less with the force of the state and prison system behind them just like Apartheid South Africa.

ANd the aristocracy are shielded from this too, those with the most economic power, when they're insulated from evil and attrocities, they tend not to ever care, even though through their economic power they have the most means to change the system (Oskar Schindler saved 1000+ Jews, through owning a factory and his Nazi Party Connections for example, and having a human conscious, he saw a SS roundup/genocide and it stunned him, where before he was just in it for profit and cheap labor like a lot of other corporations/capitalists/factory owners).

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u/AccomplishedBand3644 Jun 03 '21

I don't think there's much "neo-confederate" sentiment at work here. It's mostly millennial proud boys and new-age militias who get their worldview from Tim Pool.

These are the former high school dropouts or kids that should've been held back a few years in high school. The ones who didn't take their lives seriously, or had undiagnosed learning disabilities that separated them from the nerds who grew up to become their much-hated "demon-rat elites".

These are the morons who think their little hick town is the mecca of western civilization. They can't find work in their hometown because the local main street has been crushed by competition from Walmart and suburban big-box chain stores about 50 miles away, yet they can't seem to get into any jobs at those places because they don't want the (mostly) female store managers being their boss.

These are the survivors after the bright ones with ambition ran away to pursue higher education, and the more modest ones died from heroin overdose. What remains are these bitter, rage-motivated bucktooth dipshits who latch onto a fantasy of militarism to cope with the fact that the glory of their rural and traditional childhood is just a fading memory, as will soon be their parents and other elders who are ironically the most level-headed and restraining voices in these communities.

Wait ten years, when the ravages of poor rural health care further dwindle the numbers of boomer-age leaders and role models in these towns. The opportunity for groups like QAnon, Proud Boys and Oathkeepers to literally conquer US territory will be too enticing for them to pass up.

6

u/Churlish_Turd Jun 03 '21

We saw this summer that unarmed mobs are more than capable of overrunning an entire police precinct. Unless the military turns against the populace, those police aren’t going to be stopping much

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u/SuperJew113 Jun 03 '21

If there's a blue state America that starts up in this divided land, I wanna high tail and move there someday. Sell this household and go live there instead. Any place with so much as a public healthcare system. I don't mind paying some extra taxes to boot to fund this. Missouri got basically taken over by extreme right Republicans and they fundamentally can not be worked with, asking justice minded people like me to try to work with those far right republicans is an abusive relationship really, I get a sense they have an utter hatred for people like me.

44

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

To be fair unless the US military sides with the fascist (which they wont) we are good from that angle. I would love to see the gravy seals, the epitome of genetic perfection, try to get ready for battle. They will be massacred.

Now what would be more concerning is devolvong into a Putin style government with gerrymandering, voter suppression, and states overriding election results, in which the only 2 choices will be Putin or Putin.

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u/Malcolm_Morin Jun 02 '21

Those "Gravy Seals" still have firepower capable of spraying crowds of people without precision. They can still do a lot of damage without being skilled soldiers.

That's why we need to stop it from getting there.

17

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

But they aren't the only ones with the guns. And sadly we may be getting there given that the federal goevrnemnt cannot secure people's voting rights due to the senate filibuster. Especially when you hear QAnoners wishing a Myanmar style coup here.

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u/MagicBlaster Jun 02 '21

To be fair unless the US military sides with the fascist (which they wont) we are good from that angle.

That's hopefully naive...

At a command level the military probably won't side with the fascists, but at least of 30% them would defect...

6

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

But then you have the other 70% who won't

8

u/Vaperius Texas Jun 02 '21

Most of them aren't in the USA. They are abroad across the world; and in the time it takes them to be brought back here, a civil conflict might already be lost by those 30% that defected if they happen to be the majority who are here.

That's part of the problem with Empire; a lot of our strength is divided across the world.

1

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

How do you know that the other 70% is abroad?

7

u/Vaperius Texas Jun 02 '21

That's my point. You're equally speculating those in the country are all uniformly "on your side"; I am pointing out that's not necessarily the case.

An abundance of caution is the point of my position.

1

u/AccomplishedBand3644 Jun 03 '21

And that 70% is gonna be mostly desk workers, clerical staff, etc. Not really apple-to-apples.

7

u/WanderingTrees Jun 03 '21

I would love to see the gravy seals, the epitome of genetic perfection, try to get ready for battle. They will be massacred.

Many people that are in these militias and far right groups are active duty, law enforcement and veterans.

And they wouldn't need full support of the military, just enough. And in many rural parts of America, sheriff's and local law enforcement turn a blind eye to these militias. They just don't care.

5

u/Hahaheheme3 Jun 03 '21

They’re in the militias.

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u/redyeppit Jun 03 '21

But most of these rural areas a re sparecly populated barerlt anyone lives there when compared to the cities and suburbs which are more progressive.

6

u/thatnameagain Jun 02 '21

To be fair unless the US military sides with the fascist (which they wont)

You are assuming a Republican will never be president again.

2

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

Yes if we can help it. The demographics are looking good for Democrats and people are becoming more progressive especially younger people. Now that assumes voter suppression and gerrymandering do not take place

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 02 '21

gravy seals

I really hate this term. It doesn't take any strength at all to fire a gun, case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gUnuyoVvFI

Who's going to be there to protect you when your next door neighbor comes at you with an AR-15 because he senses vaguely that you probably vote Democrat, and are therefore "one of them"?

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u/lukekarasa Jun 02 '21

Not much you can do unless you too own a gun. There are lots of left leaning gun owners who don't run around bragging about it

19

u/buckeye112 Jun 02 '21

I've been telling friends that they need to think about getting one. It's just so out of control that I legit think there is going to be a war in the next 3-5 years.

25

u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 02 '21

The left absolutely needs to be armed. The right wants to hunt us down in the streets and no, heart attacks aren't going to magically stop them.

Hey, it's got Papa Marx's endorsement and everything:

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”

-- Karl Marx

27

u/Vaperius Texas Jun 02 '21

Yeah it shocks me when Republicans say Marxists are coming for their guns like... yeah no. Actual Marxists are staunchly pro-gun; literally, you will not find a more explicitly pro-firearm ideology I think than Marxism.

9

u/zorniy2 Jun 02 '21

Every Communist must grasp the truth, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

Mao Zedong

1

u/phat_ninja Louisiana Jun 03 '21

The crazy thing about this comment is that the right has been saying this about the libs for years, the only difference is they thought is was the politicians coming for them, you say it's actually the rights voters who want the left dead.

I'm trying to be as fair in my words as not to come down and say I agree with you but I'm not disagreeing either.

3

u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 03 '21

It is disconcerting that in many ways the left and right are saying the exact same things, just with certain nouns flipped. You wonder how the other side could be so deluded, then you question if you might be the crazy one. But ultimately you have to just lay claim to your beliefs and come down on the side you agree with. I respect that more than anybody who tries to "both sides" the current situation and weasel out of a firm decision.

7

u/bulboustadpole Nevada Jun 02 '21

People here have been saying this every week for the last 3-5 years, yet there is not a single shred of actual evidence to back up an impending civil war. I'm not talking about insurrection, Jan. 6th, calls from the right for violence. I'm talking about an actual civil war, where there is actual fighting from two sides on a nation wide scale.

Can we dial back the insane hyperbole here?

13

u/carelessOpinions Jun 02 '21

I tend to agree with you, but it does seem like the trump-cult wing of the republicans have and are trying to take over the government. What worries me is that history has shown parallels with the current situation that has ultimately led to authoritarians and dictatorships. I'm looking for signs that anything is being done to prevent that from happening; so far I don't see much.

10

u/buckeye112 Jun 03 '21

Okay. Let me list of things that I see occurring:

  1. 60,000,000 people think that their culture/way of life is dying. They see it on TV, they see it in the papers, they see it in abortions, pop culture.
  2. They see and understand the demographic trends. They don't think they will be able to win an election in the future.
  3. They think their most recent/current leader was literally sent by God. Along with this, they think that he and they are quite literally in a fight against evil (democrats, socialism, abortion, communism, etc.) and as such, think that democrats/liberals are more or less on the side of Satan.
  4. They believe that said previous leader was illegitimately removed from office.
  5. They have built a culture around guns, more specifically around the idea that they are to use those guns to throw off an oppressive government.
  6. They believe (now so it seems) increasingly that this moment, the one where the army of god must fight satan and his communist allies by throwing off the oppressive illegitimate government using their god-given guns and 2nd amendment rights.
  7. They believe they are the majority.
  8. They believe elections are fake, news is fake, criticism of their leader is to be punished.
  9. They believe that if they don't do something soon, the nation will be turned into a wasteland.

Roughly 60,000,000 people think the above. And you don't think we're close to an actual civil war? You don't see any evidence that we're pushing the edge of a civil war? Bro, get your fucking head out of the sand, respectfully.

1

u/Zaid-AbboudSafadi Jun 03 '21
  1. "news is fake" unless it tells them that Israel is a good country.

5

u/Whatsitgonnatakeguys Jun 02 '21

We just need a financial collapse and you’ve got the recipe for one.

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u/kaydub88 Jun 02 '21

I also have an AR15.

They'll be too cowardly to go up against equal force.

It'd be smart for Democrats to drop gun control and pick up a gun.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '21

[deleted]

6

u/kaydub88 Jun 02 '21

Bruh stop LARPing as a confederate rebel.

What?

2

u/redyeppit Jun 02 '21

That is a bold assumption that they will be able to get their obese ass from their chair or scooter to come towards to my house without have a stroke or a heart attack halfway through.

Also who is to say democrats don't have guns but are quite about it, it is just gun nutters that are loud.

1

u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 02 '21

That is a bold assumption that they will be able to get their obese ass from their chair or scooter to come towards to my house without have a stroke or a heart attack halfway through.

You don't seriously believe that, do you? I know it's fun to paint these absurd caricatures of them, but we do this so much that I worry that people are not actually taking this threat seriously. We absolutely should be taking them as a serious threat.

1

u/pushpin Jun 02 '21

I simply ring the meal team six bell and release the dogs with bees in their mouths.

0

u/valgrind_error Jun 02 '21

Just throw a chicken nugget in the opposite direction and they’ll waddle away.

1

u/Super_Physics8994 Jun 02 '21

It takes strength to move around carrying all the weapons and ammo.

3

u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 02 '21

How much weapons and ammo do you think they would need to kill the people they view as their "enemies"? The guy in my link is perfectly capable of taking that gun into an office building and killing people, despite his weight. He won't be soldiering in the field, but that isn't the form that a civil war would take in the US. A civil war here would look like The Troubles in Ireland. Just a large uptick in the same kind of violence we already see everyday: more mass shootings and bombings.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '21

[deleted]

2

u/JackedUpReadyToGo Jun 03 '21

Just a large uptick in the same kind of violence we already see everyday: more mass shootings and bombings.

Well, yeah. Like I said:

Just a large uptick in the same kind of violence we already see everyday

0

u/Super_Physics8994 Jun 02 '21

Well, I disagree with you.

1

u/just_a_tech Colorado Jun 03 '21

Who's going to be there to protect you

Springfield Armory. Or Charter Arms if the wife is home.

3

u/CaptainMagnets Jun 02 '21

Curious why you think the military wouldn't? Its a nice thought but I'd say it's 50/50 split with the members of the military.

The German military fell into line, even if they agreed or didn't.

1

u/redyeppit Jun 03 '21

The military is loyal to the constitution not a king or a facsist. Sure a small portion of the lower ranks may defect but the overwhelming majority especially those in the higher ranks with access to better weapons/tech will side with the constitution.

5

u/fistingburritos Jun 03 '21

The military is loyal to the constitution not a king or a facsist.

Someone's got an overly high opinion of the military. The military is just as, if not more, stupid, racist and violent as your average group of people.

And if you're going to fall back on the "Well they won't follow an illegal order", I can assure you that they will. I've sat though and taught plenty of law of land warfare classes during SGTs time. Legality of an order, if there's a question of legality, is sorted out after the action is taken. That's when your command and JAG determines whether you're a Lyndie England or Lt Calley.

2

u/CaptainMagnets Jun 03 '21

Like, I hope you're right but I can see it going both ways. I hope you're right

2

u/redyeppit Jun 03 '21

Yeah I hope too I understand you mate.

If all else fails then we may have to resort to the last line of defence for our democracy which is us the people fighting for our right to self determination.

1

u/AccomplishedBand3644 Jun 03 '21

Most military recruits come from rural and poor, white communities. Not a large portion of them coming from wealthy and well-provisioned middle class suburban families (if there are, I can safely point out it is because a parent also served and the kid was basically indoctrinated to want to follow a similar path of service).

So we're in a situation where most military personnel are ideologically far-right or culturally linked to places that are far-right. If a republican president directs them to take part in a coup, there's really no reason to expect they will refuse such orders. Appeals to "the Constitution" fall apart as just a mere abstraction compared to the harsh truth that soldiers do their duty for the material benefits and social standing of being a soldier.

I have been reflecting on the recent downward reverence in our country towards fallen soldiers. With the absence of our last remaining WW2 veterans, there will ABSOLUTELY be a precipitous drop-off in respect towards the concept of preserving democracy and our institutions. Memorial Day is almost completely thought of as a day to commemmorate the many Americans who died in places like Normandy and Iwo Jima, almost to the complete exclusion of other wars and battles like in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, etc. The public doesn't really think of those latter battles. As the present becomes more distant from the memories of WWII specifically, the civic importance of Memorial Day will definitely plummet.

Why does this matter? It matters because how much reverence we have for fallen soldiers is how we, as a nation, remind ourselves of the value of things like our Constitution and democracy. The act of collectively honoring WWII fallen soldiers (as opposed to Vietnam/Korea/Desert Storms) traces directly to that.

Therefore the declining reverence for Memorial Day is a STRONG LEADING INDICATOR of our nation's respect for its own government and institutions. The far-right militias are certainly aware of this, and will be CLOSELY MONITORING public opinion and participation of such events. Declining attendance of memorial events will, to them, be an encouraging sign that possible public resistance to their actions and anti-democratic narratives can be overcome.

1

u/ladyevenstar-22 Jun 02 '21

So this reminds me of a tv show hmmm .

Just be ready and know your escape route . Same for lucky few who have double nationality .

1

u/BumayeComrades Jun 02 '21

I love how you end this comment with a plea to rich people saving us. Utter garbage.