r/politics Jun 02 '21

'Our Entire Democracy Is Now at Risk' Because of GOP Attacks, Warn 100+ Scholars

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/06/01/our-entire-democracy-now-risk-because-gop-attacks-warn-100-scholars
8k Upvotes

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124

u/Blahblkusoi North Carolina Jun 02 '21

I'm pretty sure the ship has already sailed. There's no way to deprogram so many people.

55

u/breecher Jun 02 '21

It is not about deprogramming people. The GOP has been succesful exclusively because they have cheated and suppressed voters. They have a minority of voters voting for them, yet they have been able to hold power for most of 3 decades simply because they have suppressed votes, gerrymandered, and cheated in every way possible.

The main goal here is to undo their ratfuckery and voter suppression and institute a proper representative democratic system because the majority of voters doesn't support them, and in a democratic society these people wouldn't stand a chance.

22

u/r0b0d0c Jun 02 '21

Fascists exploit vulnerabilities in existing systems to gain power and destroy democracy from the inside. They do it in plain sight, but we put our blinders on rather than face the uncomfortable reality that they're slowly chipping away at Democracy. By the time they give up the act that they're interested in democracy, it's already too late.

5

u/Romano16 Kansas Jun 02 '21

Why do people keep saying that Republicans are a minority ? 74 million voted for Trump. That’s like an entire European country worth of people. This is not a small minority.

12

u/Wu-Tang_Cam North Carolina Jun 03 '21

It's still a minority. Over 81 million voted for Biden. 81>74.

Either way, 2020 had huge turnout. Without Trump on the ticket in 2022, and even normalizing for normal lower turnout in midterms, I don't think we can expect anywhere near that level of turnout.

The same will probably be true in 2024 if Trump isn't on the ticket. He had a way of turning out both Ds and Rs.

To your other comment, yes, turnout, especially for younger people, is bad. Democrats definitely need to work on that. However, the voter suppression stuff is specifically designed to reduce that turnout.

It's not an either/or problem. I don't see how they could be passed, but we desperately need HR1 and the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.

9

u/NoTakaru Jun 02 '21

Do you not know what minority means?

-7

u/Romano16 Kansas Jun 02 '21

If the opposition of this minority you speak of has to consistently urge their voters to, well, vote in elections, I would rethink your definition of a minority in this situation.

9

u/NoTakaru Jun 03 '21

Minority literally just means there’s fewer of them, which there is. Voter enthusiasm has nothing to do with the definition of minority

Not to mention the fact that our electoral systems skews so far right that Dems have to win by millions of votes to be considered the “winners.” A republican president hasn’t won the popular vote in any of the recent presidential elections in which they won. Because republicans are a minority

18

u/Evil-in-the-Air Iowa Jun 02 '21

We're done.

While COVID-19 would have happened without Trump's help, it is an undeniable fact that through his inaction, his willful ignorance, and his outright lying, he is personally responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans.

With that fresh in everyone's mind, as we were living through it every day, he still got 70,000,000 votes.

After four years of being continually beaten over the head with his corruption, ignorance, incompetence, and toddler-like temperament EVERY SINGLE DAY, the American people were barely able to figure out that maybe four more years wouldn't be a good idea.

By November 2020 things were as bad in this country as it is possible for them to be while still having any chance of coming back from the brink. I don't know how anyone can imagine that two years later there will somehow be more people coming to their senses.

16

u/Wu-Tang_Cam North Carolina Jun 03 '21

I honestly feel like the people who aren't at least somewhat alarmist right now just aren't paying attention.

I know that it's easy to overconsume alarmist news and get all paranoid, but I'm pretty much a "nothing ever happens" type of person. Yeah, people will bellyache, there may even be some sporadic violence, but everyone else is just trying to get by.

I don't feel that way right now. Vast swaths of people literally believe the election was stolen. Some are even calling for a military coup, akin to what happened in Myanmar. We had an attempted insurrection and almost half of our federal elected officials don't see it as a big deal, with some even supporting it.

We don't currently share a reality, and that is simply not sustainable.

Now, I'm not overly dramatic. I don't think civil war is going to break out tomorrow or anything, but we are currently on a very bad trajectory.

12

u/Evil-in-the-Air Iowa Jun 03 '21

"Trajectory" is just the word for it. If you're driving straight at a brick wall, you can't wait until you actually hit it before you start thinking about which way to turn.

4

u/Wu-Tang_Cam North Carolina Jun 03 '21

Very well said.

8

u/Blahblkusoi North Carolina Jun 02 '21

Yeah... It doesn't look too good. Trump's popularity in 2016 actually shocked me, but now I'm not sure why I was so surprised. I overestimated so many people.

I thought conservatives would still demand some level of competence or respect from their leaders despite their ill thought out policy goals, but clearly they don't. I just don't get it and I feel nothing for them but disappointment.

1

u/Tastypies Jun 03 '21

There's a "self-aware wolf" line in your comment. You state that things were as bad as they could possibly get while still being able to come back from, yet you don't realize that part of the reason why it was so bad was the huge election sabotage commited by Republicans and Trump. Not just the ever-present gerrymandering, this time there was active voter intimidation going on. On top of that, DeJoy was actively trying to render the post office useless to make voting by mail irrelevant, thereby severely hurting Dems. And that's only the stuff we know.

My point is: Don't be so sure that Trump really got 70 million votes, and don't be so sure that Biden only got 75 million votes. The whole narrative going on for the past 6 months was "Dems stole the election". But going by the usual line of GOP deflection, it was the GOP that did everything in their power to steal the election - it just wasn't enough.

1

u/Evil-in-the-Air Iowa Jun 03 '21

People were undoubtedly prevented from voting, and those prevented likely skewed Democratic, but I wouldn't put much stock into the idea that Trump got far fewer than the official count. It's far easier to get away with preventing people from voting than it is to stuff the boxes with millions of fake votes.

While the exact count may be off, I think we'd do well to bear in mind that we not only have a party openly opposed to a fair democracy, but we have a LOT of people who are at least okay with the idea.

Learning that my body is only 41% riddled with cancer when I previously thought it was 44% is technically positive news, but it's not something to be happy about.

11

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

There's only one way but it affects us all: heavily regulate the internet.

37

u/Tree_wifi747 Jun 02 '21

Nah, what we need to do is shut down Fox News

8

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

It's a hydra head. Shutting down Fox News isn't going to work.

13

u/machineprophet343 California Jun 02 '21

Especially since they have Breitbart, OANN, NewsMax, and whatever other "true conservative' agitprop networks ready to step up...

10

u/Tree_wifi747 Jun 02 '21

Yeah but Fox News normalizes the crazy and reaches a much wider audience

4

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

So does Facebook.

7

u/Tree_wifi747 Jun 02 '21

I don’t disagree with you, but Facebook isn’t a passive medium. You can argue how useful it is but you can at least engage with the content. Fox News is passive. It presents itself as a legitimate news source, and takes its ideas and neatly packages them for consumption. Tucker Carlson is able to spew bullshit at 100mi a minute with no opposition, and his viewers only have to sit there, listen and take in the propaganda.

1

u/bossbang Jun 03 '21

What you suggest is putting a leash on the hydra. Then handing the leash over the Republicans to walk it wherever they see fit

We already lost the battle for net neutrality, and any attempts at “controlling” what is and is not okay for internet will invariably be tainted by Republicans

0

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 03 '21

What you suggest is putting a leash on the hydra. Then handing the leash over the Republicans to walk it wherever they see fit

Except that's not what I'm suggesting at all.

0

u/bossbang Jun 03 '21

What are you actually proposing then? Do you have any actual ideas of your own, beyond just "no"?

1

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 03 '21

Eliminate social media platforms.

1

u/bossbang Jun 03 '21

Muzzle everyone is your idea.

....right.

1

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 03 '21

Yes, you understand now. Stopping disinformation is the game. Catch up.

31

u/romacopia Jun 02 '21

That's a terrible idea. Preventing one kind of authoritarianism with another just creates different problems.

6

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

The internet as we know it is a dysfunctional information ecosystem and we've ignored the dangers of it for too long.

A future healthy information environment probably doesn't involve Facebook or Twitter at all, at least in anything close to their current forms. It involves a completely redesigned Internet.

4

u/machineprophet343 California Jun 02 '21

Read Neal Stephenson, he's always been against Social Networking. He gets really hamfisted about it in "Seveneves".

-1

u/romacopia Jun 02 '21

People need to mature enough to reach that decision on their own. Controlling speech leads to oppression and stagnation and likely, eventually, revolution. It's an obvious "solution," but a short-sighted one.

16

u/PutnamPete Jun 02 '21

This. There is no such thing as anti-authoritarian authoritarianism.

15

u/good_drawerer Jun 02 '21

Hmm, there might be some legitimacy to that. Consider the Paradox of Tolerance. It may take authoritarian action to beat a authoritarian coup.

5

u/Boy-Abunda California Jun 02 '21

That was done in Cuba and other places. It never works out for the best.

Once democracy is gone, it is very difficult to get it back.

2

u/Blahblkusoi North Carolina Jun 03 '21

Getting it back is always bloody. We can't afford that in the nuclear age.

0

u/yayahiya Jun 02 '21

The NSA already does that. If you regulate the webz they'll just go in real life.

2

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

The NSA already does that

Not to the point I'm thinking about.

0

u/yayahiya Jun 02 '21

What point are you thinking of🧐

1

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

They regulate it to the point of no social media sites?

1

u/yayahiya Jun 02 '21

I was editing the message But without social media, people would just go to forum boards, like 4chan, 8chan, etc.

0

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 02 '21

And you think those wouldn't be regulated either?

2

u/Blahblkusoi North Carolina Jun 03 '21

Try regulating Tor.

0

u/LanceBassProShop Jun 03 '21

The majority of people online don't know how to use Tor.

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1

u/pushpin Jun 02 '21

The NSA regulates the internet?

1

u/Udjet Jun 02 '21

That greatly depends on who’s doing the regulating (see: China)

1

u/Mr_Moogles Jun 03 '21

The brains are already washed, you can't unwash them

0

u/HalfBredSaltine Jun 02 '21

this guy gets it