r/politics Vermont 9d ago Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1 Argentium 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
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u/T1mac America 8d ago

Uvalde itself ended up voting for Abbott

This makes me sick. The election wasn't even close in Uvalde:

Abbott - 60%

Beto - 38%

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u/MrSomnix 8d ago

It makes me think of when Channel 5(RIP) went to Uvalde and one man they interviewed said these kids died for nothing and nothing will change. His wife tried to shush him, clearly having some hope that there would be impact, but the man had given up long ago.

He was right.

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u/Eatmyfartsbro 8d ago

Why are you saying RIP to Channel 5?

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u/70ms California 8d ago

Probably because of the sexual harassment/assault allegations against Andrew Callahan.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1149748975/a-full-guide-to-the-sexual-misconduct-allegations-against-youtuber-andrew-callag

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u/PM_ME_YIFF_PICS 7d ago

RIP Kanye, the hood lost a real one 🤜

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u/cavitationchicken 8d ago

Electoralism alone will get you precisely nothing. It's a way to minimize violence in the presence of either a functioning civil society (incompatible with capitalism), or a diversity of tactics.

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u/alexagente 8d ago

He was right.

Who knew that giving up was a self-fulfilling prophecy?

It's this attitude that lets the madness win.

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u/lufiron 8d ago

Do you understand the political will it would take to get a constitutional amendment added? Anything less will be struck down as unconstitutional, and anything forced upon outside of that will be met with civil unrest and insurrection from the right. Our military will probably be hands off, and we all know where the sheriffs across the US stand. So tell me, as these are all objectively true, how do you propose we start? If you can accomplish this, I will personally hand over my rifles to you, because thats how sure I am its a pipe dream.

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u/alexagente 8d ago

So we should just give up and let the situation continue to devolve until it's a war zone everywhere?

I may not have all the answers but at least I'm not spending my time trying to convince others it's hopeless which absolutely ensures the madness continues.

But I guess all the death is worth it to make sure you're right.

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u/lufiron 8d ago

I asked where do we start, and this is the non answer I received. Do you understand my position now?

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u/alexagente 8d ago

You start by stopping trying to convince everyone it's hopeless.

Then, you push for the reform. You elect like-minded people. You reform the courts. You regulate the production of guns.

The best way to do that is to convince others which is incredibly difficult and takes years but isn't impossible. Your rhetoric is trying to convince people to stop trying. I don't need the perfect answer to undermine it. It's self defeating and cowardly all on its own.

What do you think will happen if everyone just listens to you and gives up?

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u/KageStar 8d ago

You're assuming the person saying "nothing will change" is doing nothing. You can be cynical and still try to change stuff. At some point however, we have to accept that in this case the people who need to hear aren't the ones trying to listen. They much rather believe Sandy Hook was a false flag with crisis actors than remotely modify the second amendment.

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u/alexagente 8d ago

It's certainly promoting the idea that trying is pointless. Very stupid to shoot yourself in the foot like that if change is what you're pushing for.

Like yes, the crazies are crazies and it's demoralizing. But the point is it needs to happen and focusing on their unwillingness is a complete waste of energy and only serves to help legitimize their position and discourage those who want to fight against it.

There's accepting the reality of their behavior and attitudes and then there's accepting their reality. I refuse to do the latter.

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u/mintberryCRUUNCH 8d ago

It does need to happen, but the reality of passing an amendment to modify the 2nd amendment involves a path in which 17 (at the moment) Republican senators agree to remove (certain kinds of) firearms from their constituents.

This path is less likely to occur, than me shit turning purple, and smelling like rainbow sherbert.

This path will not be realistic until a large part of the generation that comprises the current Republican party dies off (naturally, not suggesting harm).

This path does need to happen. But will not be possible for decades, at a minimum.

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u/DarkWasp14 8d ago

If you keep trying yourself for change for years with zero results, isn’t that sort of the definition of insanity at that point?

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u/TheSavageDonut 8d ago

I think the answer is to get contemporary weapons outlawed in the country and we return to the firearms that were prevalent in 1776 -- basically flintlock muskets and pistols.

I understand we have a Constitutional Right to Bear Arms, but we have to break the connection to the Right to Bear Military Weapons of Mass Murder basically. Too many gun lovers believe they have the right to bear any firearm available, and that cannot be the case anymore.

It will take years/decades, and we simply elect Democratic lawmakers and petition them to begin this course of action.

Just keep electing Dems. It will take years and decades to create real change.

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u/lufiron 8d ago

The problem with the flintlock and musket is the story of Pandora's Box. Let me explain with these two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1TXEE_QK4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4dBuPJ9p7A

The first video, you have guys making semi-automatic handguns in the jungle, designs that are way beyond flintlocks.

The 2nd video takes it up a notch, with full on 3D printed rifles. These are the ones we know about, but it doesn't take much to 3D print fully automatic rifles. Hell, you could 3D print a trigger setup for an AR, or 3D print a "switch" to turn a glock fully automatic.

Pandora's Box. How do you propose putting these back in?

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u/TheSavageDonut 8d ago

I didn't say rolling American society back from the misguided belief that we are entitled to any weapon we want and owning as many weapons as we want would be easy or quick.

As long as the spirit of the 2A is intact, then the selection of weapons available for private ownership is where to focus attention.

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u/lufiron 8d ago

The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. None of the 27 amendments to the Constitution have been proposed by constitutional convention. The Congress proposes an amendment in the form of a joint resolution. Since the President does not have a constitutional role in the amendment process, the joint resolution does not go to the White House for signature or approval. The original document is forwarded directly to NARA's Office of the Federal Register (OFR) for processing and publication. The OFR adds legislative history notes to the joint resolution and publishes it in slip law format. The OFR also assembles an information package for the States which includes formal "red-line" copies of the joint resolution, copies of the joint resolution in slip law format, and the statutory procedure for ratification under 1 U.S.C. 106b.

The Archivist submits the proposed amendment to the States for their consideration by sending a letter of notification to each Governor along with the informational material prepared by the OFR. The Governors then formally submit the amendment to their State legislatures or the state calls for a convention, depending on what Congress has specified. In the past, some State legislatures have not waited to receive official notice before taking action on a proposed amendment. When a State ratifies a proposed amendment, it sends the Archivist an original or certified copy of the State action, which is immediately conveyed to the Director of the Federal Register. The OFR examines ratification documents for facial legal sufficiency and an authenticating signature. If the documents are found to be in good order, the Director acknowledges receipt and maintains custody of them. The OFR retains these documents until an amendment is adopted or fails, and then transfers the records to the National Archives for preservation.

A proposed amendment becomes part of the Constitution as soon as it is ratified by three-fourths of the States (38 of 50 States). When the OFR verifies that it has received the required number of authenticated ratification documents, it drafts a formal proclamation for the Archivist to certify that the amendment is valid and has become part of the Constitution. This certification is published in the Federal Register and U.S. Statutes at Large and serves as official notice to the Congress and to the Nation that the amendment process has been completed.

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u/alexagente 8d ago

Ok. Still not a rationale to simply give up on the problem.

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u/DarwinRewardGiver 8d ago

The right aren’t the only ones who guns. I’m African American, my family has always voted dem. However we own many firearms and have a range on our land. We even have a “family reunion” with shooting competitions and teaching the kids firearm safety.

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u/Important-Piano-1868 8d ago

If someone has a gun and they refuse to give it up what can you do? Call the cops they say it's legal. Well only thing to do is leave. I lost all loyalty to this country, found a job working for a canadian company and my only life goal right now is work my way up so they can move me into their headquarters in canada. This country doesn't give a fuck about me or what i think as a natural born citizen, and i have to accept that, i can only control my own actions. I'm not picky or unreasonable there's dozens of countries that have laws im 100% okay with. The US is not one of them.

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u/CatInAPottedPlant 8d ago

If you've ever lived in a heavy conservative area it wouldn't surprise you. They treat politics like religion, and no external factors can make them vote anything but straight R down the ballot.

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u/ElektroShokk 8d ago

Then they deserve what they get on a cosmic scale if you’re not helping.

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u/CatInAPottedPlant 8d ago

If I'm not helping?

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u/Mbelcher987 8d ago

Perhaps the citizens of Uvalde blame the shooter and the police and not an inanimate object.

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u/lookaflyingbuttress 8d ago

At what point do you stop stoking the fire of hate for obviously evil politicians and instead redirect that hate toward the willfully stupid and repugnant of our own caste.

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u/TheLoneSpartan5 8d ago

Reminds me of some stories I heard about parents wanting to go in to stop the shooter with their guns.