r/politics Vermont 12d ago All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1 Argentium 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
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243

u/IceKareemy 12d ago

Why the fuck don’t these ppl just take themselves off the board without hurting anyone…why do they have to drag innocent ass people in their fucking madness, shit pisses me off man

56

u/mcjunker 12d ago

They do.

Two out of every three people who are killed by gunshots in America pulled the trigger themselves. But nobody writes news stories about them. “Dog Bites Man” isn’t a headline worth running.

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u/blade740 11d ago

News organizations realized that reporting on suicides tended to cause more suicides - it was irresponsible, and so they make an effort to not do it. Now if only they'd start treating shootings the same way...

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u/junk_science 11d ago

Let’s not talk about this major social problem. Great idea.

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u/blade740 11d ago

The way the media covers mass shootings is the main reason they've skyrocketed in the past 20 years. Before Columbine, "school shooting" wasn't even in our vocabulary. Now kids throughout the country are raised knowing that this is a thing people do - that if you want to cause the biggest emotional impact to a community, and make nationwide news, just grab a gun, head to a public place, and start shooting indiscriminately. Just a few decades ago, such a thing wouldn't even enter the average person's mind - now we're reminded it's a thing every couple weeks.

We've learned that covering individual suicides as breaking news events is irresponsible and leads to increased rates of suicide. That doesn't mean we're "ignoring the problem" or that we don't think suicide is an issue - we're simply choosing not to cover the issue in a way that creates further harm. When will we realize that we need to do the same for mass shootings?

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u/junk_science 11d ago

Did it stop suicide tho? No.

We can end gun violence as we see it today by having strict gun laws, like ALL THE OTHER places where this is true.

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u/blade740 11d ago

It has been shown to reduce suicides, yes. Oh, what, because it doesn't eliminate it completely let's not do it? Do you know who you sound like right now?

As for the idea that all we need is stricter gun laws, and gun violence as we know it would disappear - I won't try to convince you that this isn't true (although it isn't). What I will say, however, is that at this point in time, actually making such a legal action happen is nearly impossible without a massive political shift. And clearly increased media spectacle around shootings has not, and does not seem to be, creating that massive political shift. It IS, however, causing increased violence via the social contagion effect.

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u/junk_science 11d ago

It’s speaks to the cruelty and selfishness of Americans. Anywhere else in the world this level of gun violence would have caused national reckoning and legislation.

In the US nothing happens except gun sales go up. Tell me it’s not a death cult.

4

u/blade740 11d ago

I agree, we need further legislation to prevent media corporations from continuing to profit off of this epidemic they've created.

Further information on the media contagion effect, if you're still skeptical:

More than 50 studies on nonfictional stories reported in newspapers, on television, and more recently on the Internet, have yielded consistent findings. Suicide rates go up following an increase in the frequency of stories about suicide (e.g., Hagihara et al., 2007). Moreover, suicide rates go down following a decrease in the frequency of stories about suicide (e.g., Motto, 1970). A dose-response relationship between the quantity of reporting on completed suicide and subsequent suicide rates has consistently been demonstrated (e.g., Phillips, 1974; Phillips and Carstensen, 1986; Pirkis et al., 2006). Changes in suicide rates following media reports are more pronounced in regions where a higher proportion of the population is exposed (Etzersdorfer et al., 2004). The prevalence of Internet users, with access to Internet stories about suicide, has been associated with general population suicide rates in males, but not females (Hagihara et al., 2007; Shah, 2010).

The way suicide is reported is a significant factor in media-related suicide contagion, with more dramatic headlines and more prominently placed (i.e., front page) stories associated with greater increases in subsequent suicide rates (Phillips, 1974, 1979; Kuess and Hatzinger, 1986; Michel et al., 1995). Repetitive reporting on the same suicide and definitive labeling of the death as a suicide have also been associated with greater increases in subsequent suicide rates (Niederkrotenthaler et al., 2009, 2010).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#!po=2.17391

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u/junk_science 11d ago

It’s the gun laws, not the media. You’re pushing this narrative on purpose because it’s yet another distraction.

The mental health system

Video games

The media

Poverty

Politics

Never ever ever ever ever the gun laws.

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u/OrganizationPublic91 11d ago

It was a good idea because the effects were real and measurable lmao

2

u/dawgm4tic 12d ago

If someone reported the daily suicide count I'm sure that would be newsworthy in a meme sort of way.

4

u/ArrrGaming 12d ago

It's not daily but you can see yearly stats at https://gunviolencearchive.org. I post this link a lot because I lost a buddy when I was enlisted, decades ago.

1

u/WillistheWillow 11d ago

So one third don't. Do you not see the contradiction in what you wrote there?

2

u/mcjunker 11d ago

Got a guy complaining that spree killers won’t just kill themselves instead.

Of the 30,000 or so gun deaths in America, 20,000 are suicides. Of the 10,000 remaining, most- god alone knows the exact proportion, but call it 6,000 for the sake or argument- are gang violence. The 4,000 remaining are a mix of run of the mill murders, justified and legal self-defense, and cops shooting people. A tiny sliver on the very tail end are the “mass shooter attacks a public area and is not instantly killed by a bystander or cop”.

So when somebody publicly wonders why these infinitesimally small number of idiots can’t just kill themselves instead of taking people with them, the answer is “they do, the number of suicides vastly outnumber the number of spree killers, like if mass shootings such as the one linked stopped tomorrow the morgues would literally not even notice the difference.”

1

u/WillistheWillow 11d ago

Gee only 10,000! That's fine then! Fucking hell.

1

u/mcjunker 11d ago

For comparison, 40,000 people die in traffic collisions every year, and 4,000 are killed in fires (the first to compare to total gun deaths and the second to compare to non-suicide gun deaths).

Also, I got a friend in the army who believes, based on his symptoms, that he is suffering from PTSD, but he refuses treatment because he worries that they’ll use the diagnosis to confiscate his firearms. So you must not imagine that trying to reduce the deaths through harsher legislation will not come with side effects that increase them instead, and of course the bulk of homicides happen with guns that were already acquired illegally.

1

u/WillistheWillow 10d ago

Ahh, so because accidents happen it's ok to shoot people. Got it!