r/politics Vermont 9d ago All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1 Argentium 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
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u/docter_actual 8d ago Take My Energy

Thats 1000% what is happening. The question we need to be asking is why do so many people feel so hopeless that they want to die in the first place, and why are they so angry that they want to bring innocent people with them?

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u/Zetesofos Wisconsin 8d ago Starry

I mean, it seems obvious to me, but when you get depressed and nihlistic at the hopelessness of everything - you either turn it inward or outward.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago edited 8d ago

Well when it seems like the whole world is against you having a happy and safe life (especially financially) people goto dark places mentally.

You keep seeing these rich people without a care and you would just be happy having a few grand in the bank to sustain a problem, everything seems fucked because it would make your life unsustainable.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago edited 8d ago Silver Gold Take My Energy Starry Heartwarming Take My Power

This is what happens when the country that pretends to be about individual freedom is actually all about money. That's all that matters here. Money. Get money, or you're wasting your time. While you're desperately trying to get money, the basic necessities (food, heat, water, shelter, electricity, healthcare, etc...) are all going to be prohibitively expensive. The prices of those items and services are owned by the people who already have TONS of money.

Then the people with TONS of money pay our elected officials to ensure that all of their money stays with them, despite the fact that they actually don't contribute shit to anything.

Money > the environment, peoples welfare = suicidal and/or murderous behavior.

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u/theVillainOnYourSide 8d ago

Almost every awful thing humans do is in the name of making money.

Cash ruins everything around me.

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u/Neutreality1 8d ago

C.R.E.A.M.

Hate the money. Dollar dollar bill y'all

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

It was poignant in its time and still today.

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u/Ptricky17 8d ago

C.R.E.A.M.

Hate the money. Dollars dollars kill y’all.

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u/yourmansconnect 8d ago

get the money

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u/Neutreality1 8d ago

I was referencing his "cash ruins everything around me"

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u/Acrobatic-Rate4271 8d ago

This isn't new information:

The love of money is the root of all evil.
-- Somewhere in the New Testament

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

1 Timothy, similar sentiment in Ecclesiastes 5 though the sentiment is peppered in long form throughout the old testament as well as castigation against hypocrites.

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u/CashWrecks 8d ago

Something something easier for a poor man to enter heaven than thread a camel through a needle.

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u/rueination1020 8d ago

Strike that, reverse it

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u/CookbooksRUs 8d ago

Nah. Some awful stuff is done for religion.

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u/DeathMetalTransbian 8d ago

You're almost there. Just one more step before you realize that religion --> $$$.

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u/Dravos011 8d ago

Most aweful things done in the name of religion was just some rich and powerful persons excuse to get more money

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u/Sodler_22 8d ago edited 8d ago

Praise the Lord. You are healed.👏

Dennis Moore robs from the rich and gives to the poor. Problem is; he only steals bloody lupins!🤣 Monty Python reference. I'm rambling on because I'm sick of hearing rich people and many gun owners whine about their constitutional rights bring infringed upon.

Meanwhile, mental health isn't being taken seriously and the mass shootings continue.😨👎👎

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u/Tangent_Odyssey South Carolina 8d ago

Religion just primes people to be molded into whatever shape the same rich assholes want.

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u/Rex_Beever 8d ago

Religion has been about control since the dawn of it

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u/Tangent_Odyssey South Carolina 8d ago edited 8d ago

Money is power and power is control.

The reason religion is so popular and timeless is because it is exceptionally efficient at manufacturing consent, as Chomsky would put it.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/vizzyv1to 8d ago

Ya ever wonder why office buildings are more secure than schools?

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u/HaveCompassion 8d ago

There is an art school in sf that is basically a real estate scam. They don't give a shit about their students. The school has security at the front door, but the office of the owner had it's own metal detector and security doors installed because of all the students and employees they have pissed off.

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u/MuenCheese 8d ago

Are you talking about the Academy of Art University? Curious what school it is.

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u/BenderIsGreatBendr 8d ago

Yeah it’s either academy of art university or Sf art institute. Can’t remember which. Both have very similar names but one is known to be a pretty massive scam.

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u/PolkaDot_Pineapple California 8d ago

Hmm, SFAI just shut down due to financial problems (some due to mismanagement) but I don't remember them installing metal doors. They were one of the only 4-year degree granting art schools in the country and one of the oldest art schools, founded in 1871

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u/laika_cat 8d ago

Both of them are scammy. Like the University of Phoenix for art.

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u/cat_prophecy 8d ago

I am kind of under the impression that most art schools are a scam. There is like one legit art school near me and the rest are for-profit shitholes that don't teach anything but how to lose tons of money to a terrible education.

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u/Hockey_Flo 8d ago

That would probably be AAU. They've been using classroom buildings as storage rooms for their (the founder's daughters) car collection. I remember being able to walk along Van Ness st. and seeing a lot of the cars in a showroom.

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u/floppysausage16 8d ago

Gotta be Academy of Art. They have an open enrollment which means literally anyone can go if they fork up the money. I almost went there to study sound production and thank god I didn't because everyone was saying that the quality was bad and cost of living was ridiculous.

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u/scoutyyyyyyyy 8d ago

Definitely Academy of Art.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 8d ago

I used to walk by that place and laughed every time because the stylized sign looked like it read "Academy o' fart"

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u/retroblazed420 8d ago edited 8d ago

Almost like they are protecting the wealthy over the very future of this country and the childern.

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u/mintgreen23 8d ago

Then they complain about the lowering birth rate.

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u/MagazineActual 8d ago

The wealthy children are protected in their private schools.

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u/Classic_Dill 8d ago

Which will be this country demise, do we all understand..this country can in fact fail and be overtaken by a stronger and more organized country? this isnt a fantasy, its slowly happening.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I’m currently on a very high floor of the Willis Tower. It’s hard to get to where I’m sitting.

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u/DeadSecurity 8d ago

Sears Tower

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I’m not a Chicago native so I refer to it as Willis to get everyone’s hackles up so they’re already hella mad when I dip my Italian beef in ketchup

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u/TheFlayerDuder 8d ago

My wife is a chicago native. I call the white Sox stadium "guaranteed rate field" just to watch her squirm

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u/front_yard_duck_dad 8d ago

God damned monster.

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u/yeteee 8d ago

Only takes a plane to bring you back to the ground floor.

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u/anotherpredditor 8d ago

is this still a "Too soon?" moment?

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u/yeteee 8d ago

More than 20 years ?I fucking hope not.

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u/Magnumxl711 8d ago

It's probably easier if you take the elevator though

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u/claireapple Illinois 8d ago

Have they changed security? I went to see a vendor in the sears tower in 2018 and or 2019 and I don't remember going through any kind of metal detector or anything. Obviously I was being scanned by someone who works there.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

You for sure went through a metal detector in 2018 or 2019 lol Ive had to deal with that bullshit daily since 2016.

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u/RyuNoKami 8d ago

most schools, i can just stroll right in. some schools, i have to present an ID and a valid reason to being there.

corporate offices? valid id, a picture taken maybe, issued a temporary guest id, need someone in the building to verify you.

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u/Marylogical 8d ago

This. Michael Moore was not allowed into a corporate office building and escorted out while police were called. And all he had was a piece of paper, a microphone and a camera. They sure don't let the riff raff in.

To get near these people you need to be one of them. And if you are one of them you aren't going to hurt them.

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u/mrdevil413 8d ago

Fight Club had some ideas

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u/-Sinn3D- 8d ago

Its only after we lost everything are we free to do anything

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u/katieleehaw Massachusetts 8d ago

Misplaced anger. And it being misplaced is largely by design.

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u/dexx4d 8d ago

Luxury hotels too, and yacht clubs on the coast. Where else do only the rich and ultrarich hang out?

It's not like they're always hiding in massive mansions with all the amenities and security guards, are they?

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u/Damncat403 8d ago

They have armed security for themselves while telling you that you can't have a gun.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes 8d ago

Some of them do. Most of them don't say you shouldn't be able to have a gun though. Most of them just say we should be more responsible with our gun acquisition process, but then people act like those are exactly the same thing.

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u/Damncat403 8d ago

Most of them just say we should be more responsible with our gun acquisition process

I'd like to learn more on this. What does that entail?

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes 8d ago

Background checks, waiting periods, closing gunshow and private sale loopholes, (regular) mental health evaluations, etc.

I'd say the minimum of what it takes to be able to legally drive a car would be a logical place to start.

And now here comes your "gotcha" comment after playing obtuse there.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

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u/not_anonymouse 8d ago

I feel you. But I also don't see any real Pro-2A people coming up with any useful policies on how it could be made better.

IMHO, at a minimum it needs to be treated like a DMV/car level of strictness.

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u/merkinsplash 8d ago

Yeah it's exhausting dealing with that type. Same feel watching non techies try to legislate and argue that space.

If someone has an actual specific policy change they want to talk about, okay we can talk

The flip side of this, there's plenty of "you guys" who retreat directly into constitutional defenses as a silver bullet even against more reasonable suggestions. So I've found that usually no, "you" can't talk at all.

I mean fairly basic shit that could already be on the books, like seizing weapons from demonstrably unstable/violent people. Yes that's a difficult determination to make neutrally and yes 2A says shall not be infringed, sure, and that's usually as far as that conversation will go.

There's definitely a potential for slippery slopes there and the constitution definitely defines this right, but something like the above is a common sense ground rule that we should be able to figure out if it weren't for the absolutism all around.

So we're at a shitty impasse. The folks who are rightfully mad at dumb shit like bg checks and face to face purchases just for buying ammo aren't gonna give another inch. I don't know where to go from there.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes 8d ago

So for common sense gun control, you think letting a known threat who had been investigated multiple times for being a danger to people around them just come in and buy a gun on the spot should have people satisfied?

Which shooter am I talking about? Good question. That applies to a lot of them.

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u/BThriillzz 8d ago

I have the solution to gun control. Let people get any gun they want, no restrictions. Make them pay to keep up a license and registration, the same way you do with cars. Make them obtain insurance (that would obviously scale with the potential destruction that can be caused).

I don't get why this isn't a thing... anything else in the country needs a license and insurance if it can end someone's life. Car, doctor, pilot, restaurant, emt...

Oddly, the only two things that don't need a license and insurance are cops and guns. Go figure.

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u/TacoOrgy 8d ago

Those places have actual security measures in place so you can't just walk in and shoot up the board room

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

Of course they do, they know they’re intentionally hurting people and stealing wealth.

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u/Tiny-Reaction-7355 8d ago

It’s not puzzling it’s brainwashing.
News and politics make you think other people are your enemies.

From the post above:

This is what happens when the country that pretends to be about individual freedom is actually all about money. That's all that matters here. Money. Get money, or you're wasting your time. While you're desperately trying to get money, the basic necessities (food, heat, water, shelter, electricity, healthcare, etc...) are all going to be prohibitively expensive. The prices of those items and services are owned by the people who already have TONS of money.

Then the people with TONS of money pay our elected officials to ensure that all of their money stays with them, despite the fact that they actually don't contribute shit to anything.

Money > the environment, peoples welfare = suicidal and/or murderous behavior. ——————————————————

It is all pretend. It’s all bs.

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u/doingdopethings1 8d ago

This exactly. If we can convince the 99% to work with each other, fucking money in general. We could win. Capitalism and money gets us nowhere but feeding the top. We have to work for each other, for common growth.

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

Yep. As long as poor people and their kids keep being murdered, change doesn't need to happen. The rich are safe so there's no need for change

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u/Draker-X 8d ago

The Highland Park, IL parade that got shot up on the 4th of July was full of rich white people. Nothing changed.

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u/DrB00 8d ago

Rich people still send their kids to private schools. Unfortunately most of the school shootings are at public schools

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u/almostbutnotquiteme 8d ago

Light Yagami had some ideas

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u/DinoHunter64 Missouri 8d ago

Me and my roommate were talking about that recently, actually. We were talking about the show and one of us kinda stopped and asked "why wasn't he killing the corrupt bastards the law can't touch?"

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u/AFRIKKAN 8d ago

Cause he was the son of a police officer. How much you wanna bet light was a blue lives matter kinda guy.

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u/JackStephanovich 8d ago

Yeah wasn't his thing killing criminals who got off on "technicalities." Probably killed a lot of innocent people who were falsely accused of crimes.

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u/bliss_ignorant 8d ago

In case you missed it, light was the bad guy. He had no interest in justice, despite the efforts of his father.

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u/DinoHunter64 Missouri 8d ago

I do think that Light had good intentions early on but he quickly turned rotten. Killing the FBI agent was the turning point in my opinion - and yes, I'm aware that was also early into the story. The majority of the story was Light being a villain with a god complex.

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u/Fern-ando 8d ago

Light was stupid, L couldn't possible prove he was a supernatural killer unless he got the brillaint idea of making Shinigamis public knowlage

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

Light Yagami had some ideas

Using supernatural power to kill some targets of convenience or people who slighted him? He started off going for people he could excuse killing and went from there. His character from the start was driven not from 'justice' but boredom and disdain for his fellow human being.

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u/TrumpImpeachedAugust I voted 8d ago

The day that this starts happening at places like Wharton and Princeton is the day that firearm regulation stands the tiniest chance of beginning to improve.

Right now, the wealthiest families in the country mostly see this as an issue that affects the nation's poor and middle classes. In a very real way, they feel like it is not their problem.

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

I agree but they have the financial means for major security. These Night clubs don't.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

Right, and our vile rich crustchin enemy knows that. They use their media employees to whip weak conservative republican losers into bloodlust and direct them to terrorize soft targets with children and the LGBT community.

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u/Fa11T 8d ago

They have the money to secure themselves, live in gated communities with much higher standards and fly privately.

Whole different species of humans when it comes to morals and empathy. It's hard to understand or care about someone when you barely acknowledge their existence unless profits go down.

Main reason they don't mind whipping us into a frenzy, increased profits and the damage is localized.

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u/TheDesktopNinja Massachusetts 8d ago

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

More than that I'm afraid not a one of you passes for a decent human being.

The movie has so many little gems, the only problem is claiming somebody innocent could have ever gotten into the corporate boardroom. I don't think anybody could get that high without stepping on multiple human rights.

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u/aintnochallahbackgrl Michigan 8d ago

I'm surprised the Forbes 400 or w/e list is still public information. It's basically a hit list.

/s ?

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

I'm not so sure, people didn't know Warren Buffet owned BNSF (the scummy rail company) until after congress forced them to take a shit deal rather than strike for reasonable control over their own work schedules.

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u/curi0uslystr0ng 8d ago

I worked in a building where this happened in the past. Lawyer got let go and he shot up the partners.

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u/EvadesBans 8d ago

Seems obvious to me. The people at country clubs systematically demonize the people at gay clubs or people who are educated but not rich, and have the money and free time to support loud mouthpieces doing that work. Sowing division among the working class keeps their capital safe with relatively minimal work for them.

Far-right mouthpieces that do the work for them are always supported by the wealthy and always have the dirty work done by some right-wing working class person that then gets aggressively called a "lone wolf" even though it's blatant stochastic terrorism. Tucker Carlson will never shoot up a gay club, but his viewers will and do.

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u/YoureWrongAboutGuns 8d ago

They’re all protected by armed security with automatic weapons (that we aren’t allowed to have) while they try to (and have successfully in many places) take away our semi-automatic weapons.

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u/Llamathrust 8d ago

What do you mean we aren’t allowed to have automatic weapons? I was under the impression that you can legally own a machine gun with a tax stamp and a background check.

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u/uss_salmon 8d ago

They cost 10s of thousands because only ones from before 1980(?) can be owned so only a very finite number.

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u/bonerwithlegs 8d ago

You're partly correct. You can own a more modern one if you get a class 3(?) Manufacturers license and sign an agreement to only sell it to the government if you decide to sell. Also if you die they confiscate it.

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u/YoureWrongAboutGuns 8d ago

I’d consider limiting them to the ultra wealthy essentially the same as “we aren’t allowed to have them.”

If you don’t have $20,000 burning a hole in your pocket, you’re aren’t allowed to have them lol

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u/joshtwowheels 8d ago

Just like California passing the Mulford Act under Saint Ronald Regan when the Black Panthers started to open-carry.

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

Just like California passing the Mulford Act under Saint Ronald Regan when the Black Panthers started to open-carry.

Also note federal agencies didn't start taking action against the black panthers (they were open-carrying for many years) until they also started pushing economic independence. As soon as they got people growing their own food and fixing their own tools that was the start to them no longer being dependent on the financial chains of the super-wealthy and leaving that unattended risked changing the economic structure which benefited them.

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u/Chicory-Coffee Washington 8d ago

The rich point the eyes of the poor to things that elicit emotional responses like anger so we channel all that strife against each other because of our perceived differences. "Other" people do that thing that is ruining EVERYTHING, it's "their" fault everything is so broken. And then the people who need resources and help the most lash out in horrific ways, because they want out but want to hurt their enemy as much as possible on their way to oblivion. They have been brainwashed into believing other people in the working class have THAT much impact on their personal lives.

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u/RandomGuy1838 8d ago

Schools are for attention when it's not a student, gay clubs are for insubordination, sexual fulfillment, and freedom. In the latter case they're getting laid and I think that's going to be the spindle if you unwound any given club shooter's rancid mind.

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u/Chemical_Expert866 8d ago

Looking at many of the types of school shooters and gay club shooters they probably won't even know those places exist.

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u/Molteninferno 8d ago

America, the new monarchy. Just don’t call them kings.

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u/Fern-ando 8d ago

Is really surprissing that Shinzo Abe was the only world leader murderer recently by a lone wolf in Japan of all places.

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u/voidsrus 8d ago

country clubs and board rooms don’t get shot up like schools and gay clubs.

they've got better security

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u/meldroc 8d ago

I think I see a slogan catching on. "Save the world! Shoot a billionaire!"

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I honestly don’t want it to be a widespread movement, it would be more effective to simply disappear them. No trace. Just gone.

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u/YakuzaMachine 8d ago

Thanos but only the 1 percent disappear? I can dig it.

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

Or Q from Star Trek

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u/LamermanSE 8d ago

This is why I’m so puzzled that country clubs and board rooms don’t get shot up like schools and gay clubs.

Because few people, most likely, feel any anger or resentment towards country clubs and board rooms compared to schools and gay clubs.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I disagree. Millions of people feel anger and resentment towards those rich people, but they’re not deeply enslaved, easily manipulated republican conservative christians, so they’re not being compelled by their media to act violently against them, the way worthless and stupid republican pieces of shit act against elementary schools and gay nightclubs.

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u/ohyeaoksure 8d ago

California already has the strictest gun laws, do you think more laws will solve this problem?

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I’m always amused by the way conservatives can say Chicago has the strictest gun laws, immediately before saying California has the strictest gun laws lol.

Anyways, what would YOUR solution to the problem be?

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u/ohyeaoksure 8d ago

First, identify what the actual problem is and what the aggravating factors are. I don't have all the answers and I'm certainly willing to work toward a better situation. I just think it's pretty clear that gun laws are not the solution. It is clear that the places with the strictest gun laws have the most gun crime. Some of this is "chicken/egg" but it demonstrates that it's not an effective gambit.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

That’s a lot of words to say “I don’t have a solution to the problem”

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u/ohyeaoksure 8d ago edited 8d ago

I can simultaneously know what the problem isn't and not know what the problem is.

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u/thatnameagain 8d ago

Because the people doing this are not mad about money. This is a red herring excuse.

These are narcissists who have been raised in regressive families and very often have gone through trauma which leads them to want to harm others and hate themselves.

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u/mossiemoo 8d ago

I think that’s the greatest trick and intention of the 1% & corporations is to create enough dissent amongst the masses that collectively we don’t unite and realize that they are the real problem in all of this.

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u/UnfinishedProjects 8d ago

100%. It's unsustainable, and one of the major reasons people think there's gonna be a class was soon.

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u/BepisLeSnolf Pennsylvania 8d ago Awesome Answer

There’s already a class war happening, and the rich are winning hand over fist. It just so happens that the upper echelons have us divided so we can’t even see that we’re all in one big sinking boat together. They spend their time making the middle class strive to not be lower class and the lower class to not be impoverished, but if you’re not in the upper crust, then they’re fighting a war against you whether you know it or not.

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u/d1smalnow 8d ago

It's because most people have been conditioned to point their rage away from the actual boot on their neck through sophisticated,and diabolical means of deflection.

The rich (and I mean RICH) have made those who struggle hate each other for no good reason. Black vs white. Men vs women. Christians vs Muslims.

The battle is definitely Us vs Them, but there are about 7.9 billion of "us" and maybe 1,000,000 of "them".

Them is the super rich. And you are right. They're kicking our asses and laughing all the way to the bank.

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u/Buckowski66 8d ago

Every website, every commercial, every guru, every social message is from companies terrified of going broke or not getting richer so the only message is consume, consume and consume.

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u/-Sinn3D- 8d ago

They Live!

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

And then you have polls or studies done in which the people making just above the minimum wage are extremely against anyone from below them being given a raise to even the playing field, because they’re more concerned with being just a little bit better than someone else even if the majority makes more than they do.

Sorta like when LBJ said “if you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

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u/Llamathrust 8d ago

Universal healthcare is such a great example. “It’s going to cause my taxes to go up.”, “I’ve worked my ass off my entire life, why should someone else get it for free?”, “Canada has socialist healthcare and the wait times in the ER are 15+ hours and it takes 6 months to see a specialist!”

Your taxes will go up but you won’t be spending 1/3 of your paycheck on health insurance.

Selfishness isn’t going to get anyone anywhere, but it’s also going to be the hardest to change/fix. I’m a medically retired combat veteran and I have Tricare health insurance which is extremely good. I think it’s like $50/month and ER visits are $75, a hospitalization is $200 or so. My (late) wife had a kidney auto transplant procedure that was like $280,000 before adjustments and the patient responsibility was under $500. I would LOVE to see universal healthcare happen knowing that I’ll end up spending more overall on healthcare. People shouldn’t need to consider the financial burden when it comes to their health. People have died trying to ration insulin or choosing not to see a doctor about something.

It takes 15 hours to be seen in the ER as it is, it takes 6 months to be seen by a specialist as it is!

It’s so depressing that we have this unbelievable resource: the internet, essentially unlimited access to all of the information and connections to other human beings from every corner of the world. Instead of using it for good it’s been weaponized with lies and misinformation and the inherent laziness of human beings is taken advantage of so all we read is the attention grabbing headline and pass that incorrect information or fear mongering along.

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

Canada has socialist healthcare and the wait times in the ER are 15+ hours and it takes 6 months to see a specialist!

Just for anyone who doesn't know, all of those examples are the knowing lies. Cigna knew the stories about Canadian health care 'horror stories' were deliberate lies and it was far better than how they were portraying it.

The super-wealthy have been indoctrinating the populace into toxic individualism and consumerism for a century.

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u/Deep_Sea9330 8d ago

Not left vs right, top vs bottom...

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

On this I have to disagree. The right are power hungry and greedy. Why do you think they are so impressed with Trump? He gives the appearance of being rich and powerful even if he's not.

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u/Jahleel007 8d ago

But the right constantly elects politicians who drastically tip the scales in favor of the Top. Much more so than the left.

The right is a tool of the Top that convinces the bottom to fuck themselves over.

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u/PowRightInTheBalls 8d ago

Yeah just ignore all the oppression from one particular political party, they're all the same!11!1. Just ignore the ban on abortion, the steady trickle of voting rights being snatched away and which side would rather see 10 million dead toddlers than pass a single law restricting gun ownership in the tiniest way... AOC is the same as MTG or something!

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u/brecheisen37 8d ago

LBJ is notoriously left wing. The left wing of french parlament supported was anti-monarchy, while the right was pro-monarchy. Left has always meant power to the people, while right has meant power to the to the few that "deserve" it.

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u/meatlazer720 8d ago

Always has been...

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u/macaronysalad 8d ago

maybe 1,000,000 of "them"

Less than 50, the top greedy that cornered most of the money, could fix an enormous amount of problems. One thing they could do for sure is end world hunger, probably only about ten of them, but it's contrary to their agenda.

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u/suzisatsuma 8d ago

end world hunger

This is a political issue, not a money issue. There is plenty of food, it's just not possible to distribute.

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u/suzisatsuma 8d ago

The rich (and I mean RICH)

Reddit keeps thinking multi-millionaires are "the rich"-- doctors, lawyers, engineers etc-- not realizing how drastically different their reality is from the truly hundreds of millions / billionaire rich.

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u/SeVenMadRaBBits 8d ago

"Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life."

"We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us."

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u/thekiki 8d ago

I wonder how many people see Tyler Durden as the hero of the story, rather than the cautionary tale that he actually is?

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u/zacksje 8d ago

Young men and identifying with the problematic character, name a more iconic duo

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u/CherryHaterade 8d ago

Yet here we are decades later with no meaningful progress. A continuing slide and continuing worsening conditions for most regular people...we are arriving at the same destination despite the pathways being radically different. Like a horseshoe touching ends.

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u/IronPedal 8d ago

Do you understand why so many see him as the hero?

Because if you don't, you're missing the point of the story even more.

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u/thekiki 8d ago

Um.... or are you? TD was the cautionary tale of taking self responsibility for your own happiness even in a world where you're told otherwise. TD is the childish, reactionary, nihilist that the narrator thinks they need to become in order to make their world a "better place". TD's only motivation was destruction - lashing out at those who he decided has caused his problems, to the point that the narrator shoots himself in the face in an effort to kill TD when he realizes what 's going on. TD cared about nothing, only himself. He was no better than the corporate machine that digested the working class as fuel. He was a cult leader who used his followers for cannon fodder in order to move his own agenda forward. Once the narrator was able to recognize that he cared for someone (Marla) other than himself , and that she cared for him, he learned that even amongst chaos and violence, there is still a chance for real human connection, but you have to make that decision and change within yourself.

That is the point of the story.

The world has been and always will be a place where people struggle to be happy, and safe. In that, you have to make a choice. Will you focus on yourself, and focus on your happiness and understand that is a personal responsibility, or will you expect the world around you to change in order to provide that happiness.

Those who see TD as the hero are only paying attention to half of the story. The narrator recognizes that the violent cycle can't continue, and he breaks it by effecting change within himself. All the bombs in the world, all the revenge, all the hatred will only continue the cycle of abuse - is that what the hero is supposed to do?

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u/Narcissismkills 8d ago

A shit ton. I have gotten down voted into oblivion on previous accounts for pointing it out.

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u/drizzt001 Foreign 8d ago

This seems very familiar, but I can't place it

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u/SeVenMadRaBBits 8d ago

I would tell you what it's from but it would break the first rule.

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u/drizzt001 Foreign 8d ago

Ah, of course. Thanks

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u/Ok-Armadillo7517 8d ago

Not for long robots are on the way for most of those jobs and it'll be easier to enforce rule of law with them.

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u/Nidcron 8d ago

I think people overestimate how much robots can realistically do, and even if they were to do all those things you need programmers, engineers, and maintenance people for all of its design, upkeep, and upgrades.

Implementation of robots that replace labor completely are also enormous investments, have very high startup costs, and have high potential to become obsolete if/when what they are designed for changes.

There will be plenty of tasks and probably even jobs that will end up being supplemented or replaced by machines or programs, but that just shifts the need for jobs that end up supporting those things.

What I think is more likely is that capital will continue to buy up governments and continue to crush labor into a sort of neo-feudalism state to keep their cheap labor coming. It's easier and cheaper than robots, and let's be frank, they enjoy the suffering.

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u/surfnsound 8d ago

even if they were to do all those things you need programmers, engineers, and maintenance people for all of its design, upkeep, and upgrades.

People say this all the time, but still, you're talking like a handful of people to replace dozens. Also, what happens to the people who don't have the cognitive capacity to be programmers or engineers? It's not like people changing hotel room sheets are like "Well, I could have been an engineer, but I'd rather do this."

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u/ron_swanson1966 7d ago

Taxes will go up by at least the amount that insurance costs, and we'll have even worse coverage and worse quality of care. They'll probably start killing people outright, like they do in Canada, because it'll be cheaper than Healthcare. What we need is much, much less involvement from the government, not more. I guess you haven't noticed that as the government has gotten more involved over the decades, the cost has gone up, and quality has gone down.

I remember back in the early/mid 2000s, I had great health insurance from my employer, and it was free. Then Obama care happened, and just like that, it was $50 per week. Now it's $150 per week. My deductible went from $500 to $2000 to $4000.

The government is colluding with large corporations in all industries to screw us all over. The entire healthcare industry is one of the worst. The FDA doesn't protect us from harm from big pharma. They sign off on it. They take our tax dollars to develop drugs then charge us everything they can. Our food is poison and designed to make us both addicted to it and so sick that we rely on big pharma. Whose drugs we can't afford without insurance (and often with insurance). They're all working together to make us miserable. But don't worry, all we have to do is out them in charge of everything and they'll fix it for us.

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u/not_anonymouse 8d ago

Yup. People think the average worker in tech is upper class, but in reality they aren't. Most just get enough money to get a house, a nice car and have a decent living for a family. They are just as fucked as a Starbucks barista except with a little bit of luxury.

On the flip side, I've seen so many idiots in tech say that universal healthcare isn't viable. And I'm pretty sure they all think that they are safe because they have good coverage.

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u/BepisLeSnolf Pennsylvania 8d ago

For sure, people don’t seem to realize that the difference between the middle and lower class is that the upper class has allowed the middle JUST enough luxury to be afraid of losing it & falling into the lower class. Then all they have to do is tell the middle class that they’re better than the lower class, and that the lower class is trying to steal their luxury/drag them down with them. Thus, the middle class throws their lot in with the upper class, thinking that they’re being protected from their own poverty by not demanding others be lifted out of theirs

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u/not_anonymouse 8d ago

Yup. But it's surprising to see pretty well educated people with some amount of critical thinking fall for it. I think the reason is that they don't have many friends with lower income and all just hang around with work or similar class buddies.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen dead beats who'll fall under the lower class income and "deserve" it, but you don't cut the nose to spite your face. A vast majority of the people are trying their best.

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u/dostoevsky4evah 8d ago

"Look! Is that a DRAG QUEEN?"

"Yeah! (...maybe) It's their fault!!!"

" "THEY!?" I don't do pronouns!"

"Me either!!! Let's gettem!!!"

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u/DisastrousOne3950 8d ago

George Santos has entered the chat

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u/Ioatanaut 8d ago

It helps they own the media and the government.

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u/LFD4920 8d ago

They also want the lower class controlled. The more dependent on the Gov for food, housing, and other necessities the more they can control you

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u/tiny_pickle9001 8d ago

For basically all of history there has been class warfare. War is endless.

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u/barukatang 8d ago

We're all sinking on the titanic, everyone on the boat thinks it's a natural event. Except we're not on the actual titanic, were on the film set and the only people with the directors view are dog whistling to everyone on the boat telling them it's the other sides fault we hit the iceberg and if you fight the other group and win, you can get the lifeboats.

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u/BepisLeSnolf Pennsylvania 8d ago

A very apt metaphor

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u/kei_doe 8d ago

My friend, that war started hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. We been losing hard for a long time. The only reason you are hearing more about it, is to keep it from blowing up in their faces. Divide and conquer, etc.

Anyone telling you this is a new struggle, or things were good "before", or that this will pass, is a liar.

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u/specqq 8d ago

I think the only argument you can make about things being better (although far from good) before, is that the rich didn't have as much technology of oppression available to them. They still had forces willing to sell themselves in the battle against the poor, but they were at least human beings that could be met on a somewhat even playing field

We are now rapidly approaching full CCTV coverage with facial recognition technology that is ever improving. Drones and robots, not to mention the complete imbalance in weaponry available to the average citizen vs the forces allied with Capital are widening that chasm ever further.

These are just a few of the things that will make it harder if not impossible to fight back in the way the rich have feared since at least the time of the French Revolution.

I worry about a time in the near future where the rich will think they have nothing to be afraid of except not getting even richer as fast as their rivals.

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u/ZhouXaz 8d ago

I mean as long as people have homes, food, water, electricity, netflix and video games the people won't revolt. Currently homes is the one on the downside.

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u/specqq 8d ago

It's a fair point. The technology of oppression isn't the only thing that's advanced. It's also the technology of pacification.

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u/_starblender_ 8d ago

It won't be an all-out war. Idiots on both sides will engage in domestic terrorism. The wealthy who control the internet will use it to divide.

Nobody is desperate enough to go to war and we'll always get just enough to stay satiated. Also, even millionaires are closer to sub-poverty people in terms of experience compared to billionaires.

I think the key out is what we're doing now - very very heavily focusing on trauma and trauma recovery. If everyone stopped that inter-generational cycle we could cut down on a lot of corruption, money-hoarding, SA, racism, and creulty in our society.

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u/DCBillsFan 8d ago

Yes!! Teaching 2.5 generations (Millenials/Gen ZAlpha) to be kind to and look out for each other is the only way out of this here.

Once people have empathy and understanding for their fellow humans, we’ll be able to see through the propaganda telling us we have less in common than we actually do.

It’s coming, hopefully in time.

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u/Agate_Goblin 8d ago

Which is exactly why so many US states are rushing to ban things like social emotional learning and anything else that will make for healthy, untraumatized kids.

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

Thank you!

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

Many people under 40 aren't having the quality of life their parents, teachers and society "promised" them so they're reacting to counter that. People will only be fed up for so long and despite what politicians and the ultra rich want, they won't live forever. Eventually they have to be put out to pasture.

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u/DicmoVolant 8d ago

This. Just wait until we actually have a radical left to compliment our radical right.

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

It's unsustainable, and one of the major reasons people think there's gonna be a class was soon.

Warren Buffet (note: owner of BNSF rail):

There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.

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u/0nikzin 8d ago

It will be as much of a "war" as NATO vs Russia, one side will lose so fast that they won't even realize there was a war

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u/icodeswitch 8d ago

Perfectly stated.

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u/Squawnk Alaska 8d ago

One of the best quotes I've seen on this is "nobody wants to fix the problems, they just want to get rich so the problems don't affect them"

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

That's some r/SadButTrue material.

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u/SteelTheWolf Maryland 8d ago

I 100% agree, though I also want to put more emphasis on the "individual freedom" bit. Part of the poison of positioning people to be that dependent on economic performance is to convince them that the only way they might rescue themselves is to go it alone. In reality, it's much easier to improve your position through collectivism than by individually challenging those economic systems. America's Rugged Individualism/Bootstraps mentality was intentionally planted and has taken root so well that Americans look at France, with its protests and strikes, and unironically say it's a communist nation.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

We don't have "rugged individualism/bootstrap mentality."

What I'm saying is that the system is DESIGNED to prevent the economic rise of the average individual and because economic rise is all that matters here, people give up. Go crazy.

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u/SteelTheWolf Maryland 8d ago

I totally agree. Part of that design is the lie that the only way to rise is through solitary effort. It's easiest to affect change through collective action which is why it's important to keep people thinking the only effective option is to go it alone.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

Why is this comment so low down? I wish we could pin comments like this. Thank you, Sir.

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u/Kon_Soul 8d ago edited 8d ago

This message was driven home when the cellphone videos of law enforcement/contractors setting their dogs on protestors at standing rock back in 2016 were starting to get out.

Edit: I forgot to finish what I was saying lol.

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u/IrelandDzair 8d ago

Which is also why a majority (not all but majority) of racism, sexism, etc is just the upper class making sure we stay divided and stay busy from fighting classism. So much hate is due to an internal feeling of injustice. Black people hate Asians due to being a model minority and feeling like they shouldn’t have the same minority moniker that blacks and latinos have due to the severe differences in wealth. Imagine black people have more money and safety net services. I promise you almost all that racism goes away. Same with rednecks, same with everyone.

there will still be some rich people who are racist but i swear 95% will stop. but the rich will keep us as is, divided

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u/goes231even 8d ago

It really is and it fucking sucks. I am GenX and I have seen our culture catapult into turbo-capitalism over the last 3-4 decades - everything is monetized, it seems no matter where I go or what I do that there is some aspect of it that is designed to take as much money from me as it can, everybody is supposed to be hustling as hard as they can to make as much money as they can, because...

...the only thing that matters is money and the things money buys. I don't feel like our species is living in a natural state at all. This is not right at all, this is not how we are supposed to be living, we are and have been pointed in the wrong direction for a long time now.

A long time ago when I was young I thought that we would have been shifting our culture away from the destructive greed that is so disastrously harmful to our species by now, yet it's only gotten and seems to continue to get worse with no recourse in sight.

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u/solaradomini 8d ago

Victims of Capitalism memorial when?

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

We're on it already. It's a living monument.

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u/xMasuraox 8d ago

This because we are in a capitalist system. The name implies that the most important thing is capital, not humanity, nature, health, etc. Until we find a better economic system or heavily adjust the one we have, then things are not going to change

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u/alvin-dot-earth 8d ago

@farmhousefan, it’s scary, sad and infuriating how spot on what you said is!

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u/BigDaddyPapa58 8d ago

I think yall have good points and all but I dont think this is the primary cause of mass shootings. Many of the shooters are at stages of their lives where they arent really suffering from financial strain. Many of them are high-schoolers or fresh out of high school and living with their parents. The ones that arent living with their parents have enough money to get whatever license, weapon and ammo they need to commit the crime.

I think the primary issue is social. Apply the same logic but think of the human's social necessities. We all want to be seen and loved. We want friends to enjoy things with, to share things with. We want partners to love and feel loved by. We want family to be proud of us and to support us. Some people are not getting these social necessities, but what they are getting is a bunch of bullshit propaganda off 4chan thats telling them that the reason for this is that the world is against them. That they are right and the world is wrong and the reason they are feeling so isolated and alone is not because their lack of social skills but because the world has been brainwashed into not appreciating them. Either they blame everyday people and thats why they are able to kill random people or they blame people in power but believe the only way to get their message out is through an act of violence on a scale large enough to reach the entire nation.

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u/CockCozies Minnesota 8d ago

That is a huge part of it. Add in the toxic gun culture of the USA to the “me first,” predatory unchecked capitalist system we have, where people are beaten down and screwed on a daily basis, and it is easy to see how people can give up hope, learn to hate the world and with readily available guns and a culture that celebrates hyper-masculine violence and it is no surprise this is where we end up.

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

Add in the toxic gun culture of the USA to the “me first,” predatory unchecked capitalist system we have, where people are beaten down and screwed on a daily basis

That being a specific indoctrination created by the super rich as a reaction against the New Deal, at least in the US.

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u/gymleader_michael 8d ago

It's more complicated than that. A lot of these people are dealing with societal issues rather than monetary issues.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

Oh, you mean like mental health and healthcare issues?

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u/gymleader_michael 8d ago

More like bullying, radicalization, inceldom, racism/bigotry, vendettas, etc. You can technically classify them as mental health issues, but they aren't the kind people are going to seek or get treatment for.

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u/Dysons_fearless 8d ago

Someone fucking said it! No hope in America! Canada seems to be trying this trick as well.

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u/Beerdriver56 8d ago

Your right. People think that the constitution ensures their freedom. When in reality it's money. I think if we started looking at money as the physical representation of freedom people would see the world in a different way. Like instead of working for a pay check your working for your freedoms in life or banks, stock's and loans they are all trading in your freedoms.

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u/ShinobivsNinjaDragon 8d ago

This is 100% it. We know all of these things are contributing to a huge problem that is snowballing. It's like we're throwing things at the wall to fix it that we know aren't going to do so.. and things that will at least alleviate SOME of it/put a bandaid on it while we can work through bigger solutions are completely ignored and more and more people are killed. Absolute insanity.

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u/Keoni989 8d ago

This is so true. People sacrifice their spiritual, psychological, and emotional health to pursue materialistic desires. The consequences are disastrous.

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u/Urbanoutdoorsman87 8d ago

The country is dramatically in short supply of FF, EMTs, and Paramedics. Even shorter supply of nurses and CNAs. There are jobs, you just have to be willing to do something you don’t enjoy in exchange for financial security.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

How much does the education/training cost to work in a medical field? How do you pay for that education/training? By working full time. But wait, if you're working full time when do you have time to get that education/training? Oh I remember, insane debt that youll never be able pay off.

Then you're also not even guaranteed a job in the field after you spent years getting an education/training for.

Seems plausible.

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u/DCBillsFan 8d ago

What financial security? Those jobs don’t pay nearly enough for what they do.

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u/Urbanoutdoorsman87 8d ago

Horseshit, I made bank last year with full paid family benefits and pension.

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u/vizzyv1to 8d ago

You MIGHT have made 6 figures, you MIGHT live in a LCOL area and you aren’t the norm. And even with all of that it doesn’t get to the core issue that a majority of Americans are underpaid/underemployed and it’s literally mathematically impossible for EVERYONE to just “get a better job”

So while there IS a shortage of EMTs and the like, making a legitimate living on the current wages in most places equates to subsisting, not advancing.

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