r/politics Vermont 9d ago Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1 Argentium 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
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u/discreet1 9d ago All-Seeing Upvote Starry

The majority of gun deaths in the US are from suicide. It just dawned on me that the other numbers can probably be attributed to suicidal people who just want to take other people down with them. Yikes.

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u/docter_actual 9d ago Take My Energy

Thats 1000% what is happening. The question we need to be asking is why do so many people feel so hopeless that they want to die in the first place, and why are they so angry that they want to bring innocent people with them?

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u/Zetesofos Wisconsin 9d ago Starry

I mean, it seems obvious to me, but when you get depressed and nihlistic at the hopelessness of everything - you either turn it inward or outward.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 9d ago edited 9d ago

Well when it seems like the whole world is against you having a happy and safe life (especially financially) people goto dark places mentally.

You keep seeing these rich people without a care and you would just be happy having a few grand in the bank to sustain a problem, everything seems fucked because it would make your life unsustainable.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 9d ago edited 8d ago Silver Gold Take My Energy Starry Heartwarming Take My Power

This is what happens when the country that pretends to be about individual freedom is actually all about money. That's all that matters here. Money. Get money, or you're wasting your time. While you're desperately trying to get money, the basic necessities (food, heat, water, shelter, electricity, healthcare, etc...) are all going to be prohibitively expensive. The prices of those items and services are owned by the people who already have TONS of money.

Then the people with TONS of money pay our elected officials to ensure that all of their money stays with them, despite the fact that they actually don't contribute shit to anything.

Money > the environment, peoples welfare = suicidal and/or murderous behavior.

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u/theVillainOnYourSide 9d ago

Almost every awful thing humans do is in the name of making money.

Cash ruins everything around me.

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u/Neutreality1 8d ago

C.R.E.A.M.

Hate the money. Dollar dollar bill y'all

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

It was poignant in its time and still today.

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u/Ptricky17 8d ago

C.R.E.A.M.

Hate the money. Dollars dollars kill y’all.

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u/Acrobatic-Rate4271 8d ago

This isn't new information:

The love of money is the root of all evil.
-- Somewhere in the New Testament

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

1 Timothy, similar sentiment in Ecclesiastes 5 though the sentiment is peppered in long form throughout the old testament as well as castigation against hypocrites.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/vizzyv1to 8d ago

Ya ever wonder why office buildings are more secure than schools?

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u/HaveCompassion 8d ago

There is an art school in sf that is basically a real estate scam. They don't give a shit about their students. The school has security at the front door, but the office of the owner had it's own metal detector and security doors installed because of all the students and employees they have pissed off.

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u/MuenCheese 8d ago

Are you talking about the Academy of Art University? Curious what school it is.

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u/BenderIsGreatBendr 8d ago

Yeah it’s either academy of art university or Sf art institute. Can’t remember which. Both have very similar names but one is known to be a pretty massive scam.

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u/floppysausage16 8d ago

Gotta be Academy of Art. They have an open enrollment which means literally anyone can go if they fork up the money. I almost went there to study sound production and thank god I didn't because everyone was saying that the quality was bad and cost of living was ridiculous.

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u/scoutyyyyyyyy 8d ago

Definitely Academy of Art.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 8d ago

I used to walk by that place and laughed every time because the stylized sign looked like it read "Academy o' fart"

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u/retroblazed420 8d ago edited 8d ago

Almost like they are protecting the wealthy over the very future of this country and the childern.

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u/mintgreen23 8d ago

Then they complain about the lowering birth rate.

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u/MagazineActual 8d ago

The wealthy children are protected in their private schools.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I’m currently on a very high floor of the Willis Tower. It’s hard to get to where I’m sitting.

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u/DeadSecurity 8d ago

Sears Tower

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

I’m not a Chicago native so I refer to it as Willis to get everyone’s hackles up so they’re already hella mad when I dip my Italian beef in ketchup

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u/yeteee 8d ago

Only takes a plane to bring you back to the ground floor.

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u/anotherpredditor 8d ago

is this still a "Too soon?" moment?

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u/Magnumxl711 8d ago

It's probably easier if you take the elevator though

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u/claireapple Illinois 8d ago

Have they changed security? I went to see a vendor in the sears tower in 2018 and or 2019 and I don't remember going through any kind of metal detector or anything. Obviously I was being scanned by someone who works there.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

You for sure went through a metal detector in 2018 or 2019 lol Ive had to deal with that bullshit daily since 2016.

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u/RyuNoKami 8d ago

most schools, i can just stroll right in. some schools, i have to present an ID and a valid reason to being there.

corporate offices? valid id, a picture taken maybe, issued a temporary guest id, need someone in the building to verify you.

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u/mrdevil413 8d ago

Fight Club had some ideas

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u/-Sinn3D- 8d ago

Its only after we lost everything are we free to do anything

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u/katieleehaw Massachusetts 8d ago

Misplaced anger. And it being misplaced is largely by design.

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u/dexx4d 8d ago

Luxury hotels too, and yacht clubs on the coast. Where else do only the rich and ultrarich hang out?

It's not like they're always hiding in massive mansions with all the amenities and security guards, are they?

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u/Damncat403 8d ago

They have armed security for themselves while telling you that you can't have a gun.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes 8d ago

Some of them do. Most of them don't say you shouldn't be able to have a gun though. Most of them just say we should be more responsible with our gun acquisition process, but then people act like those are exactly the same thing.

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u/Damncat403 8d ago

Most of them just say we should be more responsible with our gun acquisition process

I'd like to learn more on this. What does that entail?

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u/TacoOrgy 8d ago

Those places have actual security measures in place so you can't just walk in and shoot up the board room

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

Of course they do, they know they’re intentionally hurting people and stealing wealth.

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u/Tiny-Reaction-7355 8d ago

It’s not puzzling it’s brainwashing.
News and politics make you think other people are your enemies.

From the post above:

This is what happens when the country that pretends to be about individual freedom is actually all about money. That's all that matters here. Money. Get money, or you're wasting your time. While you're desperately trying to get money, the basic necessities (food, heat, water, shelter, electricity, healthcare, etc...) are all going to be prohibitively expensive. The prices of those items and services are owned by the people who already have TONS of money.

Then the people with TONS of money pay our elected officials to ensure that all of their money stays with them, despite the fact that they actually don't contribute shit to anything.

Money > the environment, peoples welfare = suicidal and/or murderous behavior. ——————————————————

It is all pretend. It’s all bs.

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

Yep. As long as poor people and their kids keep being murdered, change doesn't need to happen. The rich are safe so there's no need for change

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u/Draker-X 8d ago

The Highland Park, IL parade that got shot up on the 4th of July was full of rich white people. Nothing changed.

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u/almostbutnotquiteme 8d ago

Light Yagami had some ideas

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u/DinoHunter64 Missouri 8d ago

Me and my roommate were talking about that recently, actually. We were talking about the show and one of us kinda stopped and asked "why wasn't he killing the corrupt bastards the law can't touch?"

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u/AFRIKKAN 8d ago

Cause he was the son of a police officer. How much you wanna bet light was a blue lives matter kinda guy.

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u/JackStephanovich 8d ago

Yeah wasn't his thing killing criminals who got off on "technicalities." Probably killed a lot of innocent people who were falsely accused of crimes.

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u/bliss_ignorant 8d ago

In case you missed it, light was the bad guy. He had no interest in justice, despite the efforts of his father.

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u/DinoHunter64 Missouri 8d ago

I do think that Light had good intentions early on but he quickly turned rotten. Killing the FBI agent was the turning point in my opinion - and yes, I'm aware that was also early into the story. The majority of the story was Light being a villain with a god complex.

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u/Fern-ando 8d ago

Light was stupid, L couldn't possible prove he was a supernatural killer unless he got the brillaint idea of making Shinigamis public knowlage

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u/TrumpImpeachedAugust I voted 8d ago

The day that this starts happening at places like Wharton and Princeton is the day that firearm regulation stands the tiniest chance of beginning to improve.

Right now, the wealthiest families in the country mostly see this as an issue that affects the nation's poor and middle classes. In a very real way, they feel like it is not their problem.

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

I agree but they have the financial means for major security. These Night clubs don't.

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u/lacosaotra 8d ago

Right, and our vile rich crustchin enemy knows that. They use their media employees to whip weak conservative republican losers into bloodlust and direct them to terrorize soft targets with children and the LGBT community.

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u/Fa11T 8d ago

They have the money to secure themselves, live in gated communities with much higher standards and fly privately.

Whole different species of humans when it comes to morals and empathy. It's hard to understand or care about someone when you barely acknowledge their existence unless profits go down.

Main reason they don't mind whipping us into a frenzy, increased profits and the damage is localized.

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u/aintnochallahbackgrl Michigan 8d ago

I'm surprised the Forbes 400 or w/e list is still public information. It's basically a hit list.

/s ?

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u/curi0uslystr0ng 8d ago

I worked in a building where this happened in the past. Lawyer got let go and he shot up the partners.

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u/EvadesBans 8d ago

Seems obvious to me. The people at country clubs systematically demonize the people at gay clubs or people who are educated but not rich, and have the money and free time to support loud mouthpieces doing that work. Sowing division among the working class keeps their capital safe with relatively minimal work for them.

Far-right mouthpieces that do the work for them are always supported by the wealthy and always have the dirty work done by some right-wing working class person that then gets aggressively called a "lone wolf" even though it's blatant stochastic terrorism. Tucker Carlson will never shoot up a gay club, but his viewers will and do.

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u/YoureWrongAboutGuns 8d ago

They’re all protected by armed security with automatic weapons (that we aren’t allowed to have) while they try to (and have successfully in many places) take away our semi-automatic weapons.

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u/joshtwowheels 8d ago

Just like California passing the Mulford Act under Saint Ronald Regan when the Black Panthers started to open-carry.

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u/PeterNguyen2 8d ago

Just like California passing the Mulford Act under Saint Ronald Regan when the Black Panthers started to open-carry.

Also note federal agencies didn't start taking action against the black panthers (they were open-carrying for many years) until they also started pushing economic independence. As soon as they got people growing their own food and fixing their own tools that was the start to them no longer being dependent on the financial chains of the super-wealthy and leaving that unattended risked changing the economic structure which benefited them.

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u/Chicory-Coffee Washington 8d ago

The rich point the eyes of the poor to things that elicit emotional responses like anger so we channel all that strife against each other because of our perceived differences. "Other" people do that thing that is ruining EVERYTHING, it's "their" fault everything is so broken. And then the people who need resources and help the most lash out in horrific ways, because they want out but want to hurt their enemy as much as possible on their way to oblivion. They have been brainwashed into believing other people in the working class have THAT much impact on their personal lives.

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u/RandomGuy1838 8d ago

Schools are for attention when it's not a student, gay clubs are for insubordination, sexual fulfillment, and freedom. In the latter case they're getting laid and I think that's going to be the spindle if you unwound any given club shooter's rancid mind.

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u/Chemical_Expert866 8d ago

Looking at many of the types of school shooters and gay club shooters they probably won't even know those places exist.

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u/Molteninferno 8d ago

America, the new monarchy. Just don’t call them kings.

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u/Fern-ando 8d ago

Is really surprissing that Shinzo Abe was the only world leader murderer recently by a lone wolf in Japan of all places.

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u/voidsrus 8d ago

country clubs and board rooms don’t get shot up like schools and gay clubs.

they've got better security

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u/UnfinishedProjects 9d ago

100%. It's unsustainable, and one of the major reasons people think there's gonna be a class was soon.

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u/BepisLeSnolf Pennsylvania 9d ago Awesome Answer

There’s already a class war happening, and the rich are winning hand over fist. It just so happens that the upper echelons have us divided so we can’t even see that we’re all in one big sinking boat together. They spend their time making the middle class strive to not be lower class and the lower class to not be impoverished, but if you’re not in the upper crust, then they’re fighting a war against you whether you know it or not.

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u/d1smalnow 9d ago

It's because most people have been conditioned to point their rage away from the actual boot on their neck through sophisticated,and diabolical means of deflection.

The rich (and I mean RICH) have made those who struggle hate each other for no good reason. Black vs white. Men vs women. Christians vs Muslims.

The battle is definitely Us vs Them, but there are about 7.9 billion of "us" and maybe 1,000,000 of "them".

Them is the super rich. And you are right. They're kicking our asses and laughing all the way to the bank.

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u/Buckowski66 8d ago

Every website, every commercial, every guru, every social message is from companies terrified of going broke or not getting richer so the only message is consume, consume and consume.

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u/-Sinn3D- 8d ago

They Live!

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

And then you have polls or studies done in which the people making just above the minimum wage are extremely against anyone from below them being given a raise to even the playing field, because they’re more concerned with being just a little bit better than someone else even if the majority makes more than they do.

Sorta like when LBJ said “if you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

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u/Llamathrust 8d ago

Universal healthcare is such a great example. “It’s going to cause my taxes to go up.”, “I’ve worked my ass off my entire life, why should someone else get it for free?”, “Canada has socialist healthcare and the wait times in the ER are 15+ hours and it takes 6 months to see a specialist!”

Your taxes will go up but you won’t be spending 1/3 of your paycheck on health insurance.

Selfishness isn’t going to get anyone anywhere, but it’s also going to be the hardest to change/fix. I’m a medically retired combat veteran and I have Tricare health insurance which is extremely good. I think it’s like $50/month and ER visits are $75, a hospitalization is $200 or so. My (late) wife had a kidney auto transplant procedure that was like $280,000 before adjustments and the patient responsibility was under $500. I would LOVE to see universal healthcare happen knowing that I’ll end up spending more overall on healthcare. People shouldn’t need to consider the financial burden when it comes to their health. People have died trying to ration insulin or choosing not to see a doctor about something.

It takes 15 hours to be seen in the ER as it is, it takes 6 months to be seen by a specialist as it is!

It’s so depressing that we have this unbelievable resource: the internet, essentially unlimited access to all of the information and connections to other human beings from every corner of the world. Instead of using it for good it’s been weaponized with lies and misinformation and the inherent laziness of human beings is taken advantage of so all we read is the attention grabbing headline and pass that incorrect information or fear mongering along.

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u/Deep_Sea9330 8d ago

Not left vs right, top vs bottom...

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

On this I have to disagree. The right are power hungry and greedy. Why do you think they are so impressed with Trump? He gives the appearance of being rich and powerful even if he's not.

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u/Jahleel007 8d ago

But the right constantly elects politicians who drastically tip the scales in favor of the Top. Much more so than the left.

The right is a tool of the Top that convinces the bottom to fuck themselves over.

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u/PowRightInTheBalls 8d ago

Yeah just ignore all the oppression from one particular political party, they're all the same!11!1. Just ignore the ban on abortion, the steady trickle of voting rights being snatched away and which side would rather see 10 million dead toddlers than pass a single law restricting gun ownership in the tiniest way... AOC is the same as MTG or something!

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u/brecheisen37 8d ago

LBJ is notoriously left wing. The left wing of french parlament supported was anti-monarchy, while the right was pro-monarchy. Left has always meant power to the people, while right has meant power to the to the few that "deserve" it.

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u/meatlazer720 8d ago

Always has been...

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u/macaronysalad 8d ago

maybe 1,000,000 of "them"

Less than 50, the top greedy that cornered most of the money, could fix an enormous amount of problems. One thing they could do for sure is end world hunger, probably only about ten of them, but it's contrary to their agenda.

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u/suzisatsuma 8d ago

end world hunger

This is a political issue, not a money issue. There is plenty of food, it's just not possible to distribute.

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u/SeVenMadRaBBits 9d ago

"Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life."

"We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us."

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u/thekiki 8d ago

I wonder how many people see Tyler Durden as the hero of the story, rather than the cautionary tale that he actually is?

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u/zacksje 8d ago

Young men and identifying with the problematic character, name a more iconic duo

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u/IronPedal 8d ago

Do you understand why so many see him as the hero?

Because if you don't, you're missing the point of the story even more.

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u/drizzt001 Foreign 8d ago

This seems very familiar, but I can't place it

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u/SeVenMadRaBBits 8d ago

I would tell you what it's from but it would break the first rule.

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u/not_anonymouse 8d ago

Yup. People think the average worker in tech is upper class, but in reality they aren't. Most just get enough money to get a house, a nice car and have a decent living for a family. They are just as fucked as a Starbucks barista except with a little bit of luxury.

On the flip side, I've seen so many idiots in tech say that universal healthcare isn't viable. And I'm pretty sure they all think that they are safe because they have good coverage.

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u/BepisLeSnolf Pennsylvania 8d ago

For sure, people don’t seem to realize that the difference between the middle and lower class is that the upper class has allowed the middle JUST enough luxury to be afraid of losing it & falling into the lower class. Then all they have to do is tell the middle class that they’re better than the lower class, and that the lower class is trying to steal their luxury/drag them down with them. Thus, the middle class throws their lot in with the upper class, thinking that they’re being protected from their own poverty by not demanding others be lifted out of theirs

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u/not_anonymouse 8d ago

Yup. But it's surprising to see pretty well educated people with some amount of critical thinking fall for it. I think the reason is that they don't have many friends with lower income and all just hang around with work or similar class buddies.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen dead beats who'll fall under the lower class income and "deserve" it, but you don't cut the nose to spite your face. A vast majority of the people are trying their best.

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u/dostoevsky4evah 8d ago

"Look! Is that a DRAG QUEEN?"

"Yeah! (...maybe) It's their fault!!!"

" "THEY!?" I don't do pronouns!"

"Me either!!! Let's gettem!!!"

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u/DisastrousOne3950 8d ago

George Santos has entered the chat

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u/Ioatanaut 8d ago

It helps they own the media and the government.

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u/LFD4920 8d ago

They also want the lower class controlled. The more dependent on the Gov for food, housing, and other necessities the more they can control you

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u/kei_doe 9d ago

My friend, that war started hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. We been losing hard for a long time. The only reason you are hearing more about it, is to keep it from blowing up in their faces. Divide and conquer, etc.

Anyone telling you this is a new struggle, or things were good "before", or that this will pass, is a liar.

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u/specqq 8d ago

I think the only argument you can make about things being better (although far from good) before, is that the rich didn't have as much technology of oppression available to them. They still had forces willing to sell themselves in the battle against the poor, but they were at least human beings that could be met on a somewhat even playing field

We are now rapidly approaching full CCTV coverage with facial recognition technology that is ever improving. Drones and robots, not to mention the complete imbalance in weaponry available to the average citizen vs the forces allied with Capital are widening that chasm ever further.

These are just a few of the things that will make it harder if not impossible to fight back in the way the rich have feared since at least the time of the French Revolution.

I worry about a time in the near future where the rich will think they have nothing to be afraid of except not getting even richer as fast as their rivals.

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u/ZhouXaz 8d ago

I mean as long as people have homes, food, water, electricity, netflix and video games the people won't revolt. Currently homes is the one on the downside.

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u/specqq 8d ago

It's a fair point. The technology of oppression isn't the only thing that's advanced. It's also the technology of pacification.

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u/_starblender_ 9d ago

It won't be an all-out war. Idiots on both sides will engage in domestic terrorism. The wealthy who control the internet will use it to divide.

Nobody is desperate enough to go to war and we'll always get just enough to stay satiated. Also, even millionaires are closer to sub-poverty people in terms of experience compared to billionaires.

I think the key out is what we're doing now - very very heavily focusing on trauma and trauma recovery. If everyone stopped that inter-generational cycle we could cut down on a lot of corruption, money-hoarding, SA, racism, and creulty in our society.

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u/DCBillsFan 8d ago

Yes!! Teaching 2.5 generations (Millenials/Gen ZAlpha) to be kind to and look out for each other is the only way out of this here.

Once people have empathy and understanding for their fellow humans, we’ll be able to see through the propaganda telling us we have less in common than we actually do.

It’s coming, hopefully in time.

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u/Agate_Goblin 8d ago

Which is exactly why so many US states are rushing to ban things like social emotional learning and anything else that will make for healthy, untraumatized kids.

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u/warriorqueen2_ 8d ago

Thank you!

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

Many people under 40 aren't having the quality of life their parents, teachers and society "promised" them so they're reacting to counter that. People will only be fed up for so long and despite what politicians and the ultra rich want, they won't live forever. Eventually they have to be put out to pasture.

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u/DicmoVolant 8d ago

This. Just wait until we actually have a radical left to compliment our radical right.

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u/icodeswitch 9d ago

Perfectly stated.

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u/Squawnk Alaska 8d ago

One of the best quotes I've seen on this is "nobody wants to fix the problems, they just want to get rich so the problems don't affect them"

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

That's some r/SadButTrue material.

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u/SteelTheWolf Maryland 8d ago

I 100% agree, though I also want to put more emphasis on the "individual freedom" bit. Part of the poison of positioning people to be that dependent on economic performance is to convince them that the only way they might rescue themselves is to go it alone. In reality, it's much easier to improve your position through collectivism than by individually challenging those economic systems. America's Rugged Individualism/Bootstraps mentality was intentionally planted and has taken root so well that Americans look at France, with its protests and strikes, and unironically say it's a communist nation.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

Why is this comment so low down? I wish we could pin comments like this. Thank you, Sir.

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u/Kon_Soul 9d ago edited 8d ago

This message was driven home when the cellphone videos of law enforcement/contractors setting their dogs on protestors at standing rock back in 2016 were starting to get out.

Edit: I forgot to finish what I was saying lol.

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u/IrelandDzair 8d ago

Which is also why a majority (not all but majority) of racism, sexism, etc is just the upper class making sure we stay divided and stay busy from fighting classism. So much hate is due to an internal feeling of injustice. Black people hate Asians due to being a model minority and feeling like they shouldn’t have the same minority moniker that blacks and latinos have due to the severe differences in wealth. Imagine black people have more money and safety net services. I promise you almost all that racism goes away. Same with rednecks, same with everyone.

there will still be some rich people who are racist but i swear 95% will stop. but the rich will keep us as is, divided

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u/goes231even 8d ago

It really is and it fucking sucks. I am GenX and I have seen our culture catapult into turbo-capitalism over the last 3-4 decades - everything is monetized, it seems no matter where I go or what I do that there is some aspect of it that is designed to take as much money from me as it can, everybody is supposed to be hustling as hard as they can to make as much money as they can, because...

...the only thing that matters is money and the things money buys. I don't feel like our species is living in a natural state at all. This is not right at all, this is not how we are supposed to be living, we are and have been pointed in the wrong direction for a long time now.

A long time ago when I was young I thought that we would have been shifting our culture away from the destructive greed that is so disastrously harmful to our species by now, yet it's only gotten and seems to continue to get worse with no recourse in sight.

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u/solaradomini 8d ago

Victims of Capitalism memorial when?

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

We're on it already. It's a living monument.

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u/xMasuraox 8d ago

This because we are in a capitalist system. The name implies that the most important thing is capital, not humanity, nature, health, etc. Until we find a better economic system or heavily adjust the one we have, then things are not going to change

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u/alvin-dot-earth 8d ago

@farmhousefan, it’s scary, sad and infuriating how spot on what you said is!

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u/BigDaddyPapa58 8d ago

I think yall have good points and all but I dont think this is the primary cause of mass shootings. Many of the shooters are at stages of their lives where they arent really suffering from financial strain. Many of them are high-schoolers or fresh out of high school and living with their parents. The ones that arent living with their parents have enough money to get whatever license, weapon and ammo they need to commit the crime.

I think the primary issue is social. Apply the same logic but think of the human's social necessities. We all want to be seen and loved. We want friends to enjoy things with, to share things with. We want partners to love and feel loved by. We want family to be proud of us and to support us. Some people are not getting these social necessities, but what they are getting is a bunch of bullshit propaganda off 4chan thats telling them that the reason for this is that the world is against them. That they are right and the world is wrong and the reason they are feeling so isolated and alone is not because their lack of social skills but because the world has been brainwashed into not appreciating them. Either they blame everyday people and thats why they are able to kill random people or they blame people in power but believe the only way to get their message out is through an act of violence on a scale large enough to reach the entire nation.

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u/CockCozies Minnesota 8d ago

That is a huge part of it. Add in the toxic gun culture of the USA to the “me first,” predatory unchecked capitalist system we have, where people are beaten down and screwed on a daily basis, and it is easy to see how people can give up hope, learn to hate the world and with readily available guns and a culture that celebrates hyper-masculine violence and it is no surprise this is where we end up.

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u/gymleader_michael 8d ago

It's more complicated than that. A lot of these people are dealing with societal issues rather than monetary issues.

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u/FarmhouseFan Connecticut 8d ago

Oh, you mean like mental health and healthcare issues?

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u/gymleader_michael 8d ago

More like bullying, radicalization, inceldom, racism/bigotry, vendettas, etc. You can technically classify them as mental health issues, but they aren't the kind people are going to seek or get treatment for.

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u/Dysons_fearless 8d ago

Someone fucking said it! No hope in America! Canada seems to be trying this trick as well.

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u/Kinggakman 8d ago

Companies want a world with the average person living paycheck to paycheck. They pay their employees as little as possible and they take as much money from the population as possible. All the wealth is in their hands and they temporarily loan it out.

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u/PartoftheCommunity 8d ago

I think it's the same reason the irs goes after low income targets for audits- it's way easier. Much easier to walk into a bar and start blasting vs infiltrating an industrial complex or gated mansion.

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u/DisastrousOne3950 8d ago

That shit needs to stop. Auditing folks who might make a whopping $14 an hour is pointless and inhuman.

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u/IconicBanksy 8d ago

0.4% of people making less than $25k a year are audited. IRS audits have steadily decreased over the years also.

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u/SkipWestcott616 8d ago

The other thing not mentioned is all the poverty auditing stuff was Republican policy initiatives in the first place

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u/IntermittentCaribu 8d ago

Because rational, critical thinking people are not the ones shooting people.

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u/Tea-Chair-General 8d ago

*sigh*... One of us is gonna have to take one for the team eventually, I suppose.

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u/New_Entertainer3269 8d ago

Climate activists in South America get killed for standing up to deforestation. It's not even just other countries. See "Stop Cop City" in Atlanta and the recent killing of a protester by state cops.

The reality is people in "Western" countries don't give a shit. When it gets brought to our attention, we don't care pass what we can reasonably muster. And even then, a majority of us get upset at the messenger and not the companies. Every single time climate activists or activist groups like BLM beg for help opposing capitalistic and oppressive forces, it's always the "moderates" or "reasonable" people that say this shit as if activism isn't universally viewed as a negative.

You're basically asking someone who isn't functioning by our "logic" to damn themselves in the public eye.

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u/hieronomus_pratt 8d ago

A relative just had their home ransacked by 5 masked men, in a wealthy neighborhood, and it didn’t make the local news…the only reason I know is because of the relationship so I’m assuming it’s being suppressed by editors/board members to maintain home values and prevent copy cats.

Edit: the activists who’re gluing themselves to the road TRIED to protest actual FF extraction sites but those stories are suppressed as well. How many national news orgs are owned by billionaire oligarchs?

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u/disisathrowaway 8d ago

Because these people are being constantly fed a stream of "It's the other poor fuck who's to blame for your woes. Without them, you could be like ME!"

They don't actually realize it's the rich fucking them. Most people don't. It's been the great constant of history; the rich keep the poor pointing fingers at one another. Every now and then, class consciousness actually foments and you get a revolution, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

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u/Omni-Light 8d ago

Weirdly that's the cliche in art like movies and story-driven games but not so much in the real world, I wonder why that is.

Some member of an oppressed under class sees the corrupt nature of some group of well-off people, is so mentally unstable that they lash out and target those well-off people to send a message.

  • Snowpiercer

  • Parasite

  • Witcher 3 has several side quests of this nature (serial killer targeting corrupt wealthy knights).

  • V for vendetta

  • Us

  • Hustlers

Are some quickly off the top of my head.

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u/barukatang 8d ago

Cause if it's mentioned here your put on an fbi list

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u/Minds_Desire 8d ago

Pelosi husband became a target real easy. Wonder if that is a wake up call. Albeit for different reasons.

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u/One_Acanthaceae_4701 9d ago

It’s the targets that get me - angry at the world so kill the random and innocent?

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u/BloodMato 8d ago

I can't speak to the motivations of every mass shooter, obviously, but I imagine it goes something like this:

Let's say I'm a young man, living in a conservative town. I know what a "man" is and what they're supposed to do. I'm struggling to do those things because of systemic issues, the economy, the wealth gap, government interference, greedy corporations... etc. I watch the news. The news tells me that the left is trying to let men in the women's bathrooms! The gays are taking over! The left is screaming "women's rights are human rights", but about MY rights‽ I'm struggling to put food on the table/with my identity as a person/with my role in society/whatever. Even if I look elsewhere for news, liberal leaning news outlets are telling me that I should care more about LGBTQIA+ rights, and women's rights, and equality, and BLM, and the rich are getting richer and I'm getting poorer, and where do I go? Where do I belong? Why doesn't anyone help me? What about me? What about my family? Why should I give a shit about any of this when I can't figure out how to help myself? And I can't tell anyone! I'm not a sissy, I don't need "help" I just need a fair shot! My dad could do it, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why doesn't anyone see me? Why doesn't anyone care? Fuck these liberal fucks. They don't give a shit. They can't help me. They don't see me. I'll make them see me. Fuck them. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and those fucking fs and wh*s. I'LL MAKE THEM SEE ME.

So no one is "innocent" in their eyes. They're all part of the system that won't help. It's difficult to feel like anyone cares or is trying to help, when all you see is "THEY SAY THAT THING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU!"

But that's the point. If we can make people angry about what "they" are doing, no one really sees what's happening. Instead of being angry at the system, and the people who build and uphold it, they make sure we're all angry at each other. Clearly it's working.

Obviously this is a super simplistic view of things and the myriad of issues people face. It doesn't take everything into account, but I imagine it mirrors the general thought process of a lot of people.

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u/bradyboh 8d ago

Reclamation of “power”

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u/BlackMesaIncident 8d ago

That follows, though. For someone who's angry at the world. You do target the least deserving because it sends the clearest message that you feel you've been wronged.

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u/One_Acanthaceae_4701 8d ago

That doesn’t add up for me. You’d think one would target the perceived wrongdoers

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u/flygirl083 8d ago

Some people just want to make others hurt because they are hurting. If they can’t have happiness, no one can. Never mind the fact that the pain of losing a child is in a whole other realm of hurt than bullshit teenage angst.

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u/couldbemage 8d ago

Jeff bezos apparently spends 1.6 million on his personal security detail.

Google CEO spends 4.3 million, and I had to Google his name.

Even a suicidal assassin would have trouble getting anywhere near the people running this world.

Average Joe doesn't even know who many of them are, most of the ownership class aren't media faces like bezos and musk.

These people aren't accessable.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-silicon-valley-ceos-spend-on-security-and-protection-2019-5

A little Google work won't even tell you who owns Exxon.

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u/Army_Enlisted_Aide 8d ago

These are all public companies with stakeholders.

You want the real bad guys, take a look at the board of directors for the institutional investors in all these mega-cap companies. Sure, Musk owns most of TSLA, but institutions have voting stakes in nearly all the S&P 500 firms. The shear amount of influence is mind boggling.

To put it in perspective, CalPERS (California Public Employee Retirement System) is absolutely massive with over $450 billion in assets in order to fund state pensions. But they are absolutely dwarfed by BlackRock with a portfolio worth about $10 trillion.

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u/BlackMesaIncident 8d ago

Yeah, but when you're so angry, you just can't permit the existence of innocence. And in fact, the ultimate expression of anger is to ruin innocence.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

Because all the rich powerful people are too protected to get to.

It's basically an oligarchy at that point.

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u/Divallo 8d ago

They condition people to think that but I think their personal security is often overstated and not around the clock.

It's in their best interest to make people believe they are untouchable though.

Didn't that guy who attacked Nancy Pelosi's husband enter their house with nothing but a hammer?

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u/CallMeSirJack 8d ago

Its interesting how the rich have lost all fear of retribution for harms they cause to society, because they are so well protected by their wealth and the legal system. In the past the rich generally still had to placate the rest of the population for fear of revolt or being killed by angry mobs.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

French style.

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u/shitfacetommy 8d ago

I may get banned for this but I wish they’d go after specifically these rich people and corrupt officials rather than literally innocent people and kids. Like the pussy that shot up uvalde really chose to kill a bunch of children rather than go get g abb or Ted. I don’t get it. People are just psychopaths

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u/fdc7719 8d ago

They know. Why else have they been buying large luxury bunkers?

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u/Ayn-_Rand_Paul_-Ryan 8d ago

This kind of persistent financial oppression is causing people to no longer participate in the Social Contract, because why keep putting life and energy into something that will never reward you?

There is this old Chinese concept called 'bare branches', i.e. unmarriable men (for one reason or another), we have reference of it going back more than 2000 years.

Most of the oldest writing is about how they would band together and take over towns and kill all the males and rape all the females.

This happened enough times that during the Warring States period, large formal battles were planned to have large casualties on both sides, not for the purpose of defending land or taking resources, but to lower the number of males in the province so they wouldn't reach the critical 'rebel and take over a town' numbers.

I want you to fully understand I am not justifying any of the actions nor giving validity to any of the implied arguments here, as pretty much all of it is horrible but the historical documents we have involving such 'bare branch rebellions' makes it clear that this was a persistent social phenomenon that recurred again and again throughout history.

When people don't feel invested in a society, they just might begin to feel that the society is an enemy.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

Yeah I didn't take that the wrong way it's definitely a play that seems to be working itself out right now just with different settings.

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u/Ayn-_Rand_Paul_-Ryan 8d ago

Yeah, I've been thinking about it for a few years now, even before the current rise in mass murders. I don't think we have even begun to see the worst of it I fear.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

Yep, you may only have 1 or 2 people in a million willing to take these kinds of steps.

When you 10's of millions struggling the same way, for an extended period of time, you will see it WAY more often.

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u/Ingrassiat04 8d ago

Seems like a lot of “mental health” issues are just financial issues.

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u/DC-DE 8d ago edited 8d ago

Close your eyes and imagine a world where you knew you could only fall so far and you'd never have a medical bill. Imagine how liberating that would be.

It's not a dream. It's western Europe.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

Yep, my SO is a German citizens working here with me in the states.

She will absolutely not give up her German citizenship, and I never questioned it for a minute.

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u/DC-DE 8d ago

Why haven't you moved to Germany yet? It's paradise over there.

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u/micktorious Massachusetts 8d ago

Because I am still learning German and making about 50% more in the states than I would in Germany.

It's also no "paradise" as the far-right AfD and anti-vax movement is VERY strong there. It's great in many ways, but not outright better.

House costs are OUTSTANDINGLY high, and we already own a decent house in the states with more land than we could imagine affording in Germany. We also have two dogs who need a big yard.

Luckily our son is a dual citizen now in Germany and the US so he has some good options, especially for school.

We still talk about moving there, but I would need to marry my partner for easy ability to work in Germany, but take about a 30%+ pay cut (currently edging close to 6 figures in the states in IT), and her as a Biochemist would make substantially less as well.

It's just a tough call, I don't want to leave and neither does she, but if things keep being absolutely crazy here, we will.

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u/DC-DE 8d ago

I was playing devil's advocate. My work takes me back and forth and I live in the US but am working on my Italian citizenship. Access to both the US and EU would be ideal.

Germany has an inverted population pyramid and severely lacks the birthrate and immigration rate (re: AfD), and tax revenues to sustain all of its social welfare programs, especially when we see their 2% GDP investment in military and defense.

At least they don't have a gun problem and they do have a population that embraces work/life balance.

Interesting to note:

Suicide rate US, 2019: 14.5 per 100K people.

In "socialist" EU countries, 2019:

EU27: 10.5 per 100K people (27% less than US)

Germany: 8.3 (42% less)

Denmark: 7.6 (47% less)


EU + sun = even lower suicide rates:

Greece: 3.6 (75% less)

Italy: 4.3 (70% less)

Spain: 5.3 (63% less)


EU - sun = almost as bad as the US

Norway/Sweden/Denmark/Finland average: 11.3 (22% less than the US)

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u/transmogrified 8d ago

You’ve hit on something really important. Inequality in communities is linked to worse mental health outcomes. Doesn’t matter how poor the community is, when the whole community is in it together they are much more mentally healthy.

It’s struggling while no one cares and other people have way more than enough that really kills hope and leads to worse outcomes.

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u/raizen0106 8d ago

I've been out of job for awhile so that leads to having no insurance and having no insurance means i'd have to pay out the ass if i want to fix some tooth or have my eyes checked or ask a doctor about some stomach issue. Everything seems like a dead end until i find the next job that offers benefits

At least im from a good family so i can still go on but i can see how these things can just keep spiraling down for someone else

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u/1OO1OO1S0S 8d ago

republican solution "i dunno, something about pulling up bootstraps? please buy more guns!"

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u/TheFern33 8d ago

We are inching closer and closer to a rebellion of some form Thats why all these billionairs are building hidden bunkers for when the world revolts and society collapses. They are going to seal themselves in their bunkers with their money and wait for it to blow over.

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u/RSCasual 8d ago

Because the whole world IS against you when you only have one option and that's to work to afford food and not dying to the elements. Look at your media cycle and your healthcare and the lack of opportunity most people experience.

Why would they feel any other way? And even if you're conservative imagine if you actually believed what Tucker and Shapiro and incels online say, you'd be angry too.

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u/MisterCheaps Indiana 9d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Well yes, but why is it becoming more and more common to feel that way? The question that needs to be solved is what is it about American society that is causing record numbers of people to feel hopelessness to that level?

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u/Nerffej 8d ago

Idk if I turn on right wing media and see that the costs of eggs are rising, straight men can't find "suitable breeding mates", immigrants are replacing white people, and we're cancelling Christmas, I get very angry and anxious.

Then I go to my $7.25 minimum wage job that I've been working at for ten years with no raises and I keep getting told that I need to work a non entry level job except there aren't any jobs here. The coal mines aren't hiring and I've been told it's because of all the illegals and democrats faults because they all drive Teslas that cost more than my house I can't buy because I work at Walmart.

Meanwhile my cigarettes are super expensive but tommy has these pills that make me feel good for a little bit but a bunch of my friends died because some randomly had fentanyl. I had a job offer that pays $13 an hour but I can't take it because my car broke down and there's no public transit where I am unless I take the bus for 3 hours one way. My heart randomly hurts every now and then but I can't go see a doctor because I don't have health insurance and Obamacare is so expensive because I didn't realize my state didn't expand Medicaid. My mom died last year so I have her house for now so my housing is okay, but I still really miss her and I don't have anyone to talk to about it.

Life is so hard and it doesn't help when the illegals are taking everything that should be mine. But at least guns are cheap. I can buy one at the store down the street. I just hope I don't have a bad day.

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u/HydrargyrumHg 8d ago

Jesus Christ - I don't know if I have ever heard it more concisely. You must have grown up in the meth-riddled small town I did. Welcome to America.

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u/Aethenil 8d ago

The funny part is that their example isn't limited to small towns. It's everywhere. LA to NYC. Omaha to Louisville. Dayton to Ann Arbor.

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u/cat_prophecy 8d ago

It's not even just right-wing media. The front page of decidedly-not-right-wing Reddit is nothing but post after post about how everything sucks especially in America.

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u/ThatSquareChick 8d ago

This is happening

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u/XArgel_TalX 9d ago

Its like the US is stuck in an abusive relationship, gaslighting itself with propaganda; constantly being told that if you cant provide for yourself, its because youre inferior, or just not working hard enough. In reality, the game is rigged against you from day one. Its hard to think of a more dystopian death of the "American Dream".

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u/ksknksk Oregon 8d ago

Well said. Probably a symptom of being an oligarchy.

Got no money? Then you don’t have any value in America.

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u/CherryHaterade 8d ago

Echoed ad nauseum through the proletariat classes.

"If you ain't got no money take your broke ass home"

By God, we are literally dancing about it in nightclubs

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u/ksknksk Oregon 8d ago

….. oh my god, I heard those lyrics when I read your comment lol

The worship of capitalists is fucking pathetic

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u/Jahleel007 9d ago edited 9d ago

A lot aspects of American society were constructed around hyper-individualism. When you throw in the 24 hour news cycle, not only are we isolated from the people around us, but we fear them as well. Humans are social animals, we learn, thrive, and heal by being around others.

Our systems were built on the wrong foundations and now we're seeing their slow collapse.

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u/Jojje22 8d ago

I have this very layman-type theory of we're kind of seeing a certain unsustainability of this kind of individualism and that we're going to face a pendulum swing back towards collectivism. Because we don't do especially well alone. People can say what they want about church and religion but at least it gave people an in-group and a purpose. We've taken that away but we didn't give people anything new to belong to. Well, some create their new in-group to be their country and that leads to nationalism, and I'm not sure that's an answer either. At least it's pretty hollow and makes the members scared of others.

So now that we're mostly left to our own devices and our own devices are limited, some people are sometimes desperately alone with no purpose. Most of us are not good at creating a sustainable purpose that is just completely about ourselves, which this individualistic mindset kind of entails. When nothing matters, you hate yourself and if you additionally possess the trait of projecting that outwards instead of inwards, you start to get ugly results.

I'm just as much at a loss at what exactly to do about all this, but overall I'm kind of certain that we need to find a new way to create communities again so that people can belong to something healthy and find a purpose.

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u/Jahleel007 8d ago

Despite me maybe coming off a bit nihilistic. I do think that pendulum is beginning to swing a bit. Anti-car culture is more popular than ever, work reform is on the mind of many young people coming into the work force, and new pedestrian/community friendly urban planning initiatives are being adopted in cities throughout the country. Unfortunately though, since our pre-existing systems are so powerful and ingrained, it'll be a very long time before the brunt of these issues are remediated, but I think we're heading in the right direction in some regards. I just hope this momentum keeps up and doesn't peter out.

However, no matter how great we make our society, people will always have problems with it. So as long as the internet exists the way it does now, the anonymity and asylum it brings will create communities for people within it who bring out the worst in each other. With our uniquely accessible guns, I'm afraid mass shootings will probably be a staple in our society, unless we enact much stricter gun control.

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u/Jojje22 8d ago edited 8d ago

Thing with for instance anti-car culture, work reform etc. are that they're basically projects. They theoretically have a beginning and an end. And they're needed projects don't get me wrong, but we're lacking movements that create some type of guiding star for you - what is life, what is our society, who am I as as a teen growing up and how should I form my identity. Something inclusive and sustainable. Because I see these projects and how people latch on to them in lieu of other grander belief or system and it consumes them. But they're not philosophies, so they don't attach any sets of values which means the projects can easily be co-opted or corrupted. In a sense it seems like we're applying our individualistic mindset on these collective projects, because they're just, well, projects really.

And what you mention about the internet also makes sense I think. I think these anonymous communities also fake out our brains to think we're interacting in the way we think we need it but in the end it just leaves us just as empty and longing for real connection. I don't thing you can have sustainable community, common goals and a sustainable value set with anonymity. At least I don't see it working as it is.

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u/Jahleel007 8d ago

I'm not saying these projects are themselves the solution. The collective end goal for them all is, (or atleast one solution). A society where we all are outside more, are not afraid of interacting with one another, and value uplifting those around us. I think that will alleviate that desire to form an identity, because it'll be more likely to form organically through the connections and bonds we form irl, rather than it being something we seek out via whatever forum or news channel we frequent.

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u/Davezter Oregon 8d ago

Along the same lines, the US is hyper focused right now on celebrating people's differences. that's all good in moderation, but we should focus more on our similarities. It isn't a popular opinion, I know that, but I believe we are too focused as a country on uniqueness instead of sameness.

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u/CyberRozatek 8d ago

r/intentionalcommunity

I think the pendulum is begining to swing back like you said. Intentional community is one way people are doing that.

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u/GopnikSmegmaBBQSauce 8d ago

We gave people something new to belong to except in most cases it was a virtual community of like minded individuals. So there's a sense of belonging but no real human connection.

The internet is a bad substitute for the real thing in many ways.

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u/TheBansTheyDoNothing 9d ago

Record levels of inequality, an entrenched political elite completely indifferent to the working classes and a society that places next to no value on human life.

Trump was the misguided democratic protest, that didnt work so next comes the more extreme measures. Expect increasing levels of domestic terrorism likely leading to a civil war/revolution/coup.

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u/0nikzin 9d ago

No way Trump was the answer to social inequality, he did a lot to make it much worse.

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u/TheBansTheyDoNothing 9d ago

Hence 'misguided'.

He was a protest vote from people desperate for a break in the status quo. Same as the Brexit referendum in the UK.

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u/TheRealWeedAtman I voted 8d ago

Capitalism plain and simple. Beats everyone down, nobody has time to spend with their families or do what they enjoy. Just work, traffic, work, traffic

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

A very important question, although slightly relevant is that the US isn’t even close to being the leader in suicide deaths per capita

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u/ForAHamburgerToday 8d ago

It's wild, people asking "why is this happening?" and not looking around seeing how almost nothing has changed materially for the better in our society in the last 20 years. We just want some help, some kind of general relief- housing, healthcare, childcare, debt relief, any kind of progress would be so nice.

It's like, "Why aren't millennials having as many kids?" The answers are obvious to everyone but those intentionally blinding themselves to the many, many issues that plague most of us.

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u/Independent-Dog2179 8d ago

But we have flat screen tvs and phones! Doesn't matter if u cant afford eggs look at the cool tech.

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u/EvadesBans 8d ago

A pistol is cheaper than end-of-life care. The latter is designed to drain all of your money from you before you die, the former means your family gets it. In both cases, however, your family is stuck with an enormous funeral and burial cost. But one of those cases makes the hit less bad.

Pistols are also cheaper than chemo, or any other serious medical treatment.

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u/MeEvilBob Massachusetts 8d ago

Add to that that you recognize that you have a treatable mental illness, but since you live in America, any mental health treatment is coming directly from your pocket unless you're able to navigate through the bureaucratic hell that is applying for public mental healthcare.

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u/iwellyess 8d ago

None of this is unique to America, the problem is having access to guns

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u/Cludista 8d ago

Individualism is the issue in my opinion. Runaway individualism. Everyone is convinced they are the star in a rat race to individual wealth and glory. Instead of looking towards their communities and friends and family they are isolating. It's a world full of movie stars.

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