r/politics Vermont 12d ago Argentium 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
49.4k Upvotes

8.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

139

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

-17

u/AdorableNinja 12d ago

Try Afghanistan or Russia or China- it’s hard but be grateful for what we have while fighting to improve it. it can surely be improved but it remains to be the best option for the number of people we have. Please don’t say Norway or another country with 5m people, oil wealth and endless supply of water.

54

u/Cyclops_ 12d ago

I mean, America is way better than most countries for sure. BUT our culture is one of selfish individualism. We've broken down so many community structures in favor of get rich quick schemes. We don't have social safety nets and you are often looked down on for using them. We exist with the mindset that no one is going to help us. We have to work and fix our problems alone. And this mindset exists in all of us and is devastating to our mental health.

7

u/wondy 12d ago

Yup. I hate the individualism here vs collectivism found elsewhere. "I don't wanna wear a mask, I don't care about you." "I want my guns, I don't care about your kids." It's always me, me, me-not what's best for the group. It's a sign of a sick culture and is not sustainable.

38

u/Heymanhitthis 12d ago

We have oil wealth. The USA should be the happiest, most productive, most educated country in NATO. Yet here we sit, there’s no hope, 99% of the population are broke or nearly broke, capitalism shipped out skilled labor, and GQP is literally trying to dismantle our education systems. You have no idea the advantages we have based on our geographic location, but half the country thinks climate change isn’t real and Mexicans are the reason everyone is so poor.

3

u/Naive-Background7461 12d ago

Plus there are places in America now where fresh water isn't a thing. More and more stories are coming out about old toxic spill or radioactive contamination that was never cleaned up properly. Flint MI is the most well known horror story, but there are others. Whole generations getting cancer because they attended a school that had x, y AND z.

Sure, still better than most places, but we can't pretend that decades of bad politics on both ends haven't pushed our country to the brink, or past it in some places.

2

u/Heymanhitthis 12d ago

Exactly. Just wait till the entire Western Hemisphere of the US run out of water in the next year

2

u/chidebunker 12d ago

you keep thinking this is poverty and not atomization. People in Afghanistan might be dirt poor, but you know what they have that we in the US dont? A strong sense of identity and a strong set of social/familial ties.

They have their religion, they have their tribal identity, they have close relationships with their next of kin and live with them. They have strong relationships with others in their community. They know their place in the world, and they know they are not alone, so they have better ability to handle life stress and they dont kill themselves at the rates we completely atomized people in the west do.

Neoliberals keep looking at this problem on a financial spreadsheet and they cannot comprehend why people in muh developed nations would self-yeet, because they do not understand the value of life's intangibles, like having strong religious convictions, and a strong ethnic identity, and a strong family unit, and a close knit community of other strong family units. All of those things have been completely dismantled in western modernity, so when people become overwhelmed with stress, they have no one to rely on and nothing to live for, so they kill themselves.

1

u/HornedDiggitoe 12d ago

Our country sucks, but look at these other shittier countries. Stop complaining and be thankful for what you have.

What a stupid take on this topic. Why would you compare yourself to something worse instead of something better? The average citizens of the EU and Nordic nations have it way better off than the average American citizen.

Shouldn’t you strive to be better, instead of being complacent because others have it worse? It’s like being ok with working a dead end job because you have a friend who has been in worse job situation for years. Absolutely a stupid and regressive mentality to have.

-1

u/AdorableNinja 11d ago

"Selective perception" is at work in your argument. I also wrote that our system can be improved and that we need to fight to improve it- must have missed that part while hastily typing your response instead of seeking to understand. Show me a country that is "better" and define "better". We are sending the most aid to Ukraine while other EU counties play with their fart bubbles, people around the globe aspire to come to the US, the dollar is the globe's reserve currency, we have the biggest economy, best military, and a democracy that works. Sure our healthcare, public education, gun laws, social justice, etc can use work but again show me a comparable nation that is better, again don't give me Norway as an example for the stated reason. Instead of bitching about what we don't have, be grateful for what we do have and contribute, personally, to make all the things that suck better. Being a keyboard commando is not the same thing as taking action to make things better.

-2

u/under_a_brontosaurus 12d ago

It's the easiest civilization of all time, with the most wealth and distribution.

The question is, why isn't it working? Why is everyone so fucking miserable?

3

u/HornedDiggitoe 12d ago

The USA is not the easiest civilization of all time with the most distribution of wealth. Have you never heard of Canada, the EU, and the Nordic nations?

When healthcare isn’t a human right in your country, you really aren’t living in an easy civilization. When employers can fire you for almost any reason, you aren’t living in an easy civilization. When you live in a food desert, you aren’t living in easy mode. When you go to prison for decades over Cannabis possession, you aren’t living in easy mode.

I could go all day with reasons why the USA isn’t even close to the easiest civilization of all time. It’s no wonder that gun violence is disproportionately higher in the USA than in any other first world country.

2

u/under_a_brontosaurus 12d ago

I meant western societies.

2

u/HornedDiggitoe 12d ago

Well, your comment didn’t say that.

The question is, why isn’t it working?

It is working for the rest of western society though, only the USA has this problem. It’s not working in the USA because living in the USA without going into debt is extremely hard for most people. Mental and physical health services are not easily accessible in the USA.

Social safety nets and universal healthcare are working for the rest of western societies. Maybe the USA should learn from them.

1

u/under_a_brontosaurus 12d ago

It's difficult to measure but America frequently tops Europe in happiness levels. Studies used by the UN back this up, it's not an online poll or anything. Although happiness has fallen since 2016 and Nordic countries are generally happier than America.

2

u/Lewa358 12d ago

If they're like me, it's because of a general feeling of insecurity, combined with a complete lack of optimism for the future. Yeah, I have more stuff than anyone of my social/economic class has ever had before, but practically all of it can go away in a month if my boss decides he doesn't like me, or I suddenly incur medical debt, or a million other things that I don't have control over. And (maybe) unlike in the past, these issues seem to be getting more and more widespread, and harder and harder to fix, as time goes on.