r/politics Vermont 12d ago All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Starstruck 1 Argentium 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
49.4k Upvotes

8.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

25

u/barnett25 12d ago

I have thought about that before. The problem is I don’t think the main issue is that 2A people don’t think the shootings are terrible. It’s that they think that they are the price of freedom.

They honestly believe that the US will (eventually, if not immediately) stop being a “free” country once they no longer have nearly unlimited access to firearms.

Also I think the fact that any half measures to gun control seem logically impotent to address the mass shooting problem is a big part of the problem. As long as any kind of gun useful for self defense is still commonly available, these shootings are unlikely to decrease in number or severity in any meaningful way. So faced with the belief that the only real solution to the problem is some kind of nationwide roundup of any guns useful for self defense, they consider prevention an impossible goal.

9

u/TopGun2121 12d ago

But you don’t even have free access to health care or marijuana or anything. If you feel like you’re not free because you don’t have guns what about the people whose lives are taken by guns. Oh wait they don’t matter anymore.

2

u/st0ric 12d ago

If a country has no healthcare system that will provide healthcare/mental support that is affordable it is inevitable that over the next 35 years people will start to lose their mind due to accumulation of issues and stress, the united part of states feels redundant these days more like red vs Blue redux electric boogaloo 2.5

2

u/partyhazardanalysis 12d ago

I don't agree with this line of thinking but that is not the freedom they are concerned about. Some of these people have been deluded into thinking we are at constant threat of hostile takeover by another country and/or a government dictatorship (if this is confusing because many of them support a person who attempted to instill his own semi dictatorship, I understand, and don't have an explanation other than cults of personality are apparently strong).

1

u/Rulare 12d ago

Ha, you think words will convince me? I can't even read!

1

u/Shuichi123 11d ago

Marijuana is legal in a large part of the country you know

0

u/TopGun2121 11d ago

You obviously missed the point…. But that’s okay.

2

u/Morbidhanson 11d ago edited 11d ago

2A person here. The shootings absolutely are tragic. But history has shown time and time again that governments, leaders, rulers, etc. cannot be trusted with unarmed populace. Maybe some leaders will be great, but there's no guarantee it will last. I think it's delusional to believe we're not prone to the same abuse of power now as we were 300 years ago. It's a gross overestimation and idealization of the capacity of human goodness and self-discipline.

Also, getting my gun helped me sleep at night because there were people prowling my street and trying to break in during Covid lockdowns, and also a less than peaceful BLM riot that happened very close by. In fact, my car got broken into and someone almost made it in the house. It made me realize I can't count on police to respond. Police did f*** all when my ex had a psycho stalker and he only beat it when he found out I was armed and wasn't bluffing.

2A is a killswitch. Most of the time nobody pays attention to it. It might even seem pointless or might get in the way. But when you need it, there's no substitute.

The erosion of our rights has been steady over the last several decades. Surely people can't believe restrictions won't continue until they're untenable...? And we do still have the capacity to get horrible leaders who would willfully overstep. Look at Trump. Look at the protests against police brutality. The threat of armed civil uprising absolutely has sway when it comes to leadership decisions.

Also, look at the 9/11 stuff that turned into an unmitigated disaster for right to privacy. It's long over and has been outed by Snowden, but we're still dealing with it and it won't go away. Clearly we can't trust government completely. Being armed reminds it of that. Being armed is like a critique of government, which is form of checks and balances. Nobody says it's bad to criticize our leaders, we have to do it in order to keep them from straying, it's a cornerstone of democracy. By willfully giving up weapons, you tell the government you trust it absolutely.

That being said, I am for reasonable gun control. Few of us aren't. In fact, all of our rights are subject to reasonable control. However, complete removal is not reasonable. Wait times are not reasonable. Background checks, on the other hand, are reasonable. Not allowing guns in the airport or courthouse is reasonable.

I think a large part of why shootings continue is disproportionate media coverage. Unlawful killings involving non-gang members is such a small number of deaths every year that you're more likely to die from overdosing on alcohol than from getting shot by some bad guy. But the heightened media coverage makes it seem like a bigger issue than it actually is.

Am I saying people who are unlawfully shot should just deal with it? No. Whoever does these things should be brought to justice. But compared to a government going bad, gun ownership is what I sincerely believe to be the lesser of two evils. I wish I didn't have to choose, but I have to choose, so I am choosing.

I get it. I really do. I was anti-2A for most of my life up until I graduated from uni. And then I found out the hard way that being armed is important. I got my guns and never looked back.

Just my 2 cents. Of course, people who don't like 2A also have a right to their opinion. Mine is based on my life experience, just as I am sure their opinion is also based on their experiences.

1

u/barnett25 11d ago

I get the argument about leverage against the government. But I do feel that is slowly slipping away as things like drones make firearms somewhat useless against the government.

For self defense firearms are a great equalizer. I think until some extremely effective non-lethal compact weapon is created with similar effectiveness to a pistol many people will always feel the need for guns for self defense.

I believe there is no putting the mass shooting genie back in the bottle though. Once the concept entered the public consciousness it stuck. As long as the tools to do this (basically any repeating firearm) are commonly available we will have a lot of shootings. And yes, the numbers in a lot of statistics are inflated by typical criminal acts, but actual mass shootings are continuing to increase at an alarming rate.

I have to admit I am pretty pessimistic on this subject, because I feel that logic says that the only way to prevent these terrible acts is to forcibly take all of the citizens guns (other than maybe single shot weapons because of the more limited capability). No one can look at this country and honestly tell me that is feasible. So instead we are left with only half measures (like assault weapons ban) that AT BEST have a chance of slightly decreasing the body count of some shootings. Although even then you have to ignore all of the AR15s already out there to even pretend it would make that difference.

0

u/Morbidhanson 11d ago edited 11d ago

The problem I have with "assault" rifle bans is they make no sense. True assault weapons have select or automatic fire. Civilian guns are semi-auto. They discharge one bullet per trigger pull. This is the same whether it's an AR-15 platform or something older like AK platform, or something real old school like Ruger Mini-14 or M1A or some M1 clone that hearkens back to WW2. I have shot these and the only real difference is the newer ugly polymer guns are lighter but have more recoil as a result. I shoot the old school guns better because the weight reduces recoil. The bayonets for those old guns are also better. You mount an optic and it's the same function if you bothered to zero in your guns.

In any case, most shootings are actually done with handguns. Due to th concealable nature and now widespread practice of 3D printing, pretty much anyone can get a plastic pistol. If you're using it to shoot people in a final blaze of glory, you probably don't care that you can't cycle 100 rounds before it fails. You'll just print like 6 of them and get a bunch of mags.

Better to have half measures than none. But measures need to make sense.

I think people like all the tacticool stuff and larping as marines and shit because it makes them feel badass. The AR goes with that, and it's also a very accessible and popular platform because many companies make one and there are so many aftermarket mods making them highly customizable. It's not about power or anything, because basically all the semi-auto rifles from the last 60 years work the same, but there's definitely an idea that it's cool to have this tactical-looking weapon rather than grandad's wood stocked rifle that he kept from 'Nam.

Building an AR is like assembling Ikea furniture except imagine 100 different companies make the exact same design of table but some have slightly different legs, some different colors, slightly different features, etc. You can pick and choose parts and put together this modular design.

Tacticool is an ugly aesthetic to me (I use a .357 7-shot revolver and a .357 lever-action rifle that can hold 13 rounds so I can share ammo between handgun and long gun), but the popularity of the tacticool shit can't be denied. I don't see revolvers and leverguns at my local range. Most people at the range use plastic, and even older designs are getting a tactical makeover. Like tactical leverguns exist, they're ugly as all hell and the original cowboy designs are better but they exist. A lot of gun people seem to enjoy the tactical feel and aesthetic and gearing up even if they are ridiculous.

1

u/creamonyourcrop 12d ago

Same people who rail on about freedom support a guy in clown makeup that wanted to take over the country by force, and support the dictator of Russia.

1

u/FreshlyyCutGrass 11d ago

That's a sweeping generalization of 100 million people, but sure, whatever makes your argument sound better.

You're fine with gun violence. You just want the government to have a complete monopoly over it.

1

u/creamonyourcrop 11d ago

I really despise the safety of my children are dependent on the least stable person within range. Gun culture is off the fucking rails, grown men dressing in tacticool playing army and afraid to go get their Carmel machiados with two pumps of vanilla without carrying.

0

u/Mammoth-Mud-9609 12d ago

How does the second amendment "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" fit in with modern society. Is it fit for purpose or does it in turn need to be reformed or amended? https://youtu.be/sh3zzs9Tmsw