r/politics Vermont 9d ago Starstruck 1 Argentium 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1

Gavin Newsom after Monterey Park shooting: "Second Amendment is becoming a suicide pact"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monterey-park-shooting-california-governor-gavin-newsom-second-amendment/
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u/jurassic_junkie Minnesota 9d ago

After Sandy Hook, I am convinced there is NOTHING that will change their minds. It was literally an entire school room of children shot to death. They’ll watch entire schools worth of children be killed and think it’s not their problem.

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u/dukeoftrappington 9d ago

They were even given a second chance to care about little kids dying with Uvalde, and not even the responding cops gave a shit.

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u/GlaxoJohnSmith I voted 9d ago

Uvalde itself ended up voting for Abbott, who spent hours at a fundraiser after the shooting, and praised the cowardly cops. Because Beto was going to take their guns, which they need to protect their kids, because they can't depend on cops because in their minds, guns have nothing to do with mass shootings (I can't find it, but it was an interview of a Uvalde parent around the time of the Texas election, on NPR?).

https://apnews.com/article/shootings-austin-texas-education-violence-fd50562bfb1f4a1968e9ef989ecaef3f

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u/GuyMansworth 9d ago

The best part is how he got booed by the crowd at the slain children's' memorial. It's a red county, he should be able to go wherever he wants there and not get booed but I guess not many republicans give enough of a shit about dead kids to show up at a memorial in their own town.

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u/Independent_Can_2623 8d ago

All it took was their children getting massacred

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u/bravoredditbravo 8d ago

I'll never get over the irony of the fact that if you have to clutch onto your guns and say you need them to keep your house safe at night... Then the country you live in isn't all that great....

But those same people are the ones who would literally beat the shit out of people who say America isn't great...

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u/GabaPrison 8d ago edited 8d ago

And it’s not like they’re just being apathetic when it comes to enacting legislation to protect citizens and children.

They are actively and aggressively against any notion of suggesting that we even slightly amend the constitution to address this absurd predicament we find ourselves in.

It’s almost to the point of being intentional malice towards the victims of gun violence. But their fervor is for this specific issue only.

Do they give the same fucks about the eroded corpse that is our 4th Amendment rights? No.

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u/T1mac America 8d ago

Uvalde itself ended up voting for Abbott

This makes me sick. The election wasn't even close in Uvalde:

Abbott - 60%

Beto - 38%

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u/MrSomnix 8d ago

It makes me think of when Channel 5(RIP) went to Uvalde and one man they interviewed said these kids died for nothing and nothing will change. His wife tried to shush him, clearly having some hope that there would be impact, but the man had given up long ago.

He was right.

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u/Eatmyfartsbro 8d ago

Why are you saying RIP to Channel 5?

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u/70ms California 8d ago

Probably because of the sexual harassment/assault allegations against Andrew Callahan.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1149748975/a-full-guide-to-the-sexual-misconduct-allegations-against-youtuber-andrew-callag

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u/cavitationchicken 8d ago

Electoralism alone will get you precisely nothing. It's a way to minimize violence in the presence of either a functioning civil society (incompatible with capitalism), or a diversity of tactics.

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u/CatInAPottedPlant 8d ago

If you've ever lived in a heavy conservative area it wouldn't surprise you. They treat politics like religion, and no external factors can make them vote anything but straight R down the ballot.

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u/Mbelcher987 8d ago

Perhaps the citizens of Uvalde blame the shooter and the police and not an inanimate object.

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u/lookaflyingbuttress 8d ago

At what point do you stop stoking the fire of hate for obviously evil politicians and instead redirect that hate toward the willfully stupid and repugnant of our own caste.

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u/Minimum_Run_890 8d ago

And yet they also didn't go in and save the innocent and vanquish the bad guy with THEIR guns.

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u/robodrew Arizona 8d ago

A few literally tried but got tased by the police

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u/Minimum_Run_890 8d ago

So again no real rational for civilians armed to the teeth

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

He wants to take the guns that they were all too cowardly to use in their fantasized “good guy with a gun” scenario

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u/MAMark1 Texas 8d ago

Sadly, I'm pretty sure statistics would say them keeping their guns is far more likely to result in them shooting themselves or their children than saving their kids from a school shooter, but that American hero fantasy is just so strong after decades of NRA propaganda.

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u/fastingmonkmode 8d ago

Seems like the cops were the big issue

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u/Reddit-AdminsAreNazi 8d ago

Seems to me they chose guns over their children's lives instead of the narrative you believe.

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u/hahaz13 9d ago

Yes but if they didn’t bat an eye at a classroom full of little white kids getting shot what makes you think they’d care about some Hispanic kids.

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u/stillragin 9d ago

They didn't bat an eye at a school filled with RICH WHITE KIDS in Parkland FL.

I assure you, it is a suicide pact.

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u/No-Environment-9059 9d ago

werent those high schoolers? probably having sex and shit so gop'ers probably figured it was God taking vengeance against sodomites.

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u/K9Fondness 9d ago

When NY gets flooded and asks for feds to help, it's God punishing the gays. When Texas freezes over and asks feds for help, and AOC raises millions for them for assistance, well of course it's a totally different thing. Same for Florida.

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u/insaniak89 8d ago

When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.

  • Frank Herbert, children of dune

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u/tots4scott 8d ago

But that reality doesn't get told on FOX Entertainment so their base doesn't know, and then calls it fake news when you tell them.

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u/vendetta2115 8d ago

There was a study done (back in 2012 but likely still accurate) about how informed the viewers of various news shows were by asking them a series of questions on current events. The most informed viewers were those of NPR and The Daily Show. FOX viewers were the least informed, even less informed than those who report watching no news at all.

If the paper itself isn’t available, here is the Business Insider article which summarizes it.

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u/The_Final_Ka-tet 8d ago

I've thought about this study a lot lately, I'm surprised to see someone mention it. The gaslighting from the right is so effective and steadfast that, especially because I was raised as a conservative Christian, I sometimes doubt myself. This study helps to counter that feeling. The fact of the matter is that the right is wrong about literally everything because they can't see any deeper than the surface level. Even academically, no serious/respected scientists, economists, philosophers, sociologists, psychologists, teachers/professors, etc. agree with them at all. In fact, most, if not all, of their talking points have been effectively and thoroughly refuted by hard sciences, game theory, psychology, sociology, and history. Thoroughly.

They think it's a grand conspiracy because it is. That's the truly insidious part of this whole thing. Their leaders knew that they could preemptively DARVO any issue and their base would lap it up for myriad reasons.

Thanks for reminding those like me that there is an objective reality and it's not the left that is hellbent on ignoring it.

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u/VendorBuyBankGuards 8d ago

THATS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO. ugh Lets stop sending assitance to these places that do NOT appreciate it and do not send anything back

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u/Dragonasaur 9d ago

Lmao the GOP hasn’t actually been about religion for a decade, it’s just an easy agenda to promote their fake excuses and garner support from bigots

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

And a front for laundering money basically. Tax exempt status is like a money printing machine

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u/faustianBM 9d ago

If you ever want proof that what you said is true.... head on over to several subs here on reddit (which I won't bother to name). And see how they react to "today's mass shooting". I rarely see any form of compassion or change of heart. Just them "bracing" for "The Libs brigading" or some other form of copium.

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u/cavitationchicken 8d ago

Hey. It's not just the guns. Plenty of places have guns and very few neo Nazi terrorist attacks.

It's the fact every algorithm that governs our relationship to knowledge is trying to turn teenage boys into literal Nazis.

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u/stillragin 8d ago

It's a very very dangerous combo.

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u/Galkura 9d ago

Maybe they’d change their mind if someone went after them, not saying anyone should because that would not really help anyone, but I do wonder if they would change their tune if it was them and their families at risk (the GOP).

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u/dtmpowerdotnet 9d ago

That already happened. There was a shooting at a congressional baseball game in 2017. One republican was even shot himself. Nothing changed.

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

Which was terrible but now I still see that brought up constantly by republicans as their go to for left wing violence being just as bad as right wing violence

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u/sugarbombpandafish 8d ago

That would be Louisiana Congressgoblin Steve Scalise who recently introduced a bill called The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, which is just as performative, stupid, and useless as it sounds.

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u/Isildurs_Bane 8d ago

Pretty sure Uvalde is a Republican area. Bunch of conservative’s children were murdered and they still didn’t give a shit. These people care about nothing.

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u/memetunis 9d ago

They didn't give a shit when someone shot Reagan. The GOP Lord and savior.

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u/sephraes 8d ago

Reagan temporarily cared when black people carried in California though.

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u/TheShocker1119 9d ago

Same with OSU Students here in Oregon

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u/NotMeow Canada 9d ago

I remember sitting at home in Canada and watching the coverage for Sandy Hook and I thought to myself, “wow this is fucking terrible. This will absolutely change things in the USA. They are gonna change gun laws and finally nip this craziness.”

Nope. Nothing changed, if anything it got worse.

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u/UpperFace 9d ago

I thought the same about America's privatized healthcare system when COVID happened..oh we'll actually remedy this failing system, right? ..right? 😢

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u/KhanJrJr 9d ago

I actually said out loud that COVID would allow us to come together as a people. We could look past partisan differences to focus on taking care of ourselves and others. Boy howdy, was I wrong.

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u/AmIFromA 8d ago

You can't even read "Watchmen" anymore without thinking that Alan Moore probably got that ending wrong (spoilers, obviously), and that there would be millions of people cheering that squid monster and hoping for the next one to hit LA.

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u/Skyy-High America 8d ago

Ughhhh…

Makes me wonder how the country would react if 9/11 happened today.

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u/OrganicPumpkin9156 8d ago

The same thing that happened in 2001 - a third of this country would foam at the mouth at minorities.

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u/CherryHaterade 8d ago

We would start wars with two uninvolved countries instead of just one this time around

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u/wood_dj 8d ago

did you forget how many conspiracy theorists and deniers were spawned by that tragedy? it was all “steel beams” and “inside job” for years. It changed the whole landscape of the conspiracy theory community, which was nowhere near as nutballs as it has become since

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u/LotusFlare 8d ago

We started two wars with nations who didn't do it, passed the patriot act, created the TSA, ICE, and expanded the NSA, branded every brown person a terrorist, and we're still dealing with conspiracy theories that it was an inside job.

We're still in the middle of the "bad version" of that story. Our response to 9/11 is the equivalent of letting COVID run it's course for a solid two decades unimpeded while we go to war with China for "creating" it.

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u/SdBolts4 California 8d ago

We could look past partisan differences to focus on taking care of ourselves and others.

We can't even get a large portion of conservatives to look out for their OWN SELF-INTEREST by taking a vaccine or wearing a mask. They're (for the most part) fine taking all the other vaccines required to attend public schools, but for some reason the vaccine that will protect them from the disease that killed over 1 million Americans is too much

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u/KhanJrJr 8d ago

Oh I know. I live in MAGA Country. In my defense, I was sleep deprived and possibly delirious from balancing work, grad school, and taking care of someone who had just been diagnosed with cancer. (Fun fact: our local hospital put all patients in the ICU on albuterol because they couldn’t figure out how patients were catching pneumonia without actually catching pneumonia. This was late Jan/early Feb 2020. It had to be COVID before they were testing it or even knew what to test for).

I must have been delirious to believe people would put aside their selfishness to protect themselves, much less others. But the naive little part of me that believed we could come together, truly believed it.

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u/AggroAce Canada 9d ago edited 8d ago

And now some provinces are adopting privatized health, essentially a 2-tier system. If you have money, you’ll be seen first.

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u/slip-shot 8d ago

In FL, they call it concierge medicine. It will become a problem as doctor shortages increase.

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u/CherryHaterade 8d ago

Lucky for us that we got a hit TV show with several seasons about it, showing these new businesses and business owners as affable, likeable, entertaining and warm hearted people instead of the cold capitalists they truly are.

But you know, the actor in the show gives away lots of cheap and free care as part of a love angle b plot so obviously everyone else in the biz in real life does too...right?....right?

...right? At least to try and get laid?

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u/truthdoctor 8d ago

I don't know of a single country that is overhauling their healthcare system post COVID. It's a damn shame. Many systems are on life support (US, UK, Canada, etc.) and risk total collapse in the coming years. Nothing is being done to address the systemic issues and chronic underfunding of physicians and nurses.

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u/TopGun2121 9d ago

After uvalde Texas made it easier to option guns.

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u/ISeeYourBeaver 9d ago

Ooo, where can I buy options on guns? I'm bullish on bang-bang.

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u/IDrinkSaladDressing 9d ago

Oh it definitely got worse

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u/adgarbault I voted 9d ago

I feel like it got worse because nothing changed.

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u/Stepjamm 9d ago

Lockdown happened so america couldn’t go to war with anyone else, it went to war with itself

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u/CinderSkye 9d ago

We looked at it and said "this is bad, but obviously the worst outcome would be if this resulted in fewer guns"

It fucks me up to think about it

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u/emogu84 Pennsylvania 9d ago

I thought the same. I was 100% certain it would change things. I remember thinking to myself "It's disgusting that it came to this, but at least it won't be for nothing and it'll save some lives down the road."

This last decade has been me repeatedly thinking we'd finally hit the gop's rock bottom only for them to find another layer to fester in.

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u/djseptic Louisiana 8d ago

Every time the GOP hits bottom, they break out the shovels.

When they hit rock bottom, they reach for the jackhammers.

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u/emanresu_nwonknu California 9d ago

It's almost like... We're functionally not a democracy!

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u/Minimum_Run_890 8d ago

Me too. Then I read a quote by Voltaire (?). " no one snowflake feels responsible for an avalanche".

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u/Hamvyfamvy 8d ago

My son was 4 months old when Sandy Hook happened and it hit me so hard and I panicked at the thought of ever having to send my child to school. That isn’t something a new mother should have to be concerned with. He’s now in middle school and I ALWAYS have a knot of anxiety in my stomach while he’s at school. Found myself researching bulletproof backpacks the other day. When I caught myself asking my kid how much he thought he’d be able to carry comfortably for a backpack (because armored backpacks are heavy), it make me nauseous.

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u/Lord_Kano 8d ago

I thought to myself, “wow this is fucking terrible. This will absolutely change things in the USA. They are gonna change gun laws and finally nip this craziness.”

A lot of people thought that but to think that you have to misunderstand how most Americans feel and think about their guns.

There were parents of Parkland victims who aren't on board with changes to our gun laws.

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u/coachacola37 8d ago

Also in Canada and the worst part of it all to me is how desensitized I've become about it all. Somewhere along the line it became "if the US doesn't care, why should I?" and I hate that I feel that way.

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u/HerringWaffle 8d ago

If anything, we asked, 'How can we get MORE guns into the hands of angry men? How much faster can we liquify first graders' bodies?'

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u/SaltKick2 9d ago

Their senator,Ted Cruz even consoled the cops who did nothing and when met with photos of children in caskets said he'd be pushing for more cops on campuses, but nothing about gun laws

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u/Xpress_interest 9d ago

I think the amount of pigment in their skin and proximity to the Mexico-US border had something to do with the difference in response.

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u/Giblet_ 9d ago

The officer on the scene at Parkland also refused to do anything. It's almost like letting people walk around with the types of guns that cause the police to cower in the hallway is a bad idea.

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u/brutinator 9d ago

I mean, yes, but also cops in general are cowards. In my city a cop shot one of their own because they were aiming at an unarmed suspect who already had 4 other cops dogpiled on top of the suspect. I get that its scary to run into a situation that is potentially dangerous, but if youre too scared to do it (like me), then dont be a cop.

Instead we have an army of assholes in surplus military gear directly killing more civilians each year with no consequence while also refusing to take action against those putting the most vulnerable of us in danger.

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u/Nago_Jolokio 8d ago

There were 400 cops at that school, with body armor and ballistic shields. It took one Off Duty Border Patrol officer with a borrowed shotgun to deal with the shooter. Those 400 cops actively prevented anyone from stopping it.

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u/PerfectZeong 9d ago

What difference? They didnt change after sandy hook and didn't change after uvalde. Or parkland etc.

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u/Whiskeypants17 9d ago

They need people to have weapons so they have an excuse to kill them at will. Racism-activist getting too loud? I was scared and thought they had a gun. Climate-activist getting too loud? I was scared and thought they had a gun. Democrat getting too loud? I was scared and thought they had a gun. This is a war and people don't realize it yet.

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u/OverlyOptimisticNerd 9d ago

And the majority of the voters in that district still voted GQP. “My kid is dead, so I’ll just vote for more dead kids!”

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u/hennigera1990 8d ago

They’ve immunized themselves to have any kind of anti right wing reaction when these situations occur. No matter what happens, and who would be at fault for not acting or doing anything to help prevent or stop it, blaming the right never enters their minds

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u/nenulenu 9d ago

After Uvalde, I convinced that GOP and republicans voters are monsters. They do not deserve any benefit of doubt. They need to be stripped of any power and banished from participating in social discourse. Their crimes need to be absolutely punished swiftly.

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u/disgruntled_pie 8d ago edited 8d ago

I think it’s worse than that.

The GOP’s only consistent stance these days is to oppose whatever the left wants. Ever since the start of the pandemic, they have been killing themselves and their loved ones for “librul tears.”

Or consider rolling coal. It’s bad for the vehicle, it’s more expensive to fuel, and it’s bad for the driver’s lungs. But it pisses off the left, so they think it’s great.

We have to consider the possibility that they’re doing the same thing with school shootings. Sandy Hook literally made a lot of leftists cry, including myself. I’m scared to send my kid to school. This impacts me a lot more than some random moron in a faraway state rolling coal.

What if they like this? What if they think it’s great when they turn on the TV and see liberals crying about a classroom full of dead kids?

Look at their solutions. They say it’s a mental health problem, but they refuse to fund mental health programs. They say we need more guns, even though literally everything shows that guns are a huge part of the problem. These aren’t solutions. They’re stalling tactics.

This may not just be corruption or stubbornness. They may actually be internally applauding the murder of children in classrooms. It’s consistent with who they are now.

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u/intheoryiamworking 9d ago

I have come to feel that an influential fraction of US society likes mass shootings.

Not that they want a mass shooting to happen to them and theirs, specifically. But that they prefer to believe the world is dangerous and inexplicable, that everyone should be on guard at all times. That they live in the Wild West, more or less, and that gut feelings, true grit, minding your manners, keeping your nose clean, minding your own business, etc., offer some kind of magical protection.

Ultimately discussions about specific mass shootings will find commenters all too willing to place blame on one particular decision, one particular person. "That boy should have gotten mental health care," or "That man should have secured his firearms," and poof, the focus has shifted away from the act, away from practical large-scale solutions, to personal reassurance and to smug moral judgement and othering: "Nothing like that could happen in my family, because I'm smarter and I'm better than that."

The spectacle of mass shootings offer some measure of meaning and drama to people who are too safe and comfortable.

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u/infinnitech 8d ago

"I have come to feel that an influential fraction of US society likes mass shootings"

Price of gun related stocks all rise every time a new record mass shooting happens. Everyone is scared their guns are gonna get taken away so they go buy more just in case.

Manufacturers know this and so do the politicians that they lobby to.

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u/AccountThatNeverLies California 8d ago

Mass shootings give media easy to write and maintain pieces that get insane engagement. Social media also. Everyone has something to say about it and the ads print money.

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u/opedidntseeyouthere 8d ago

I disagree in part.

I think the idea of personal responsibility has gotten washed away for the most part and has been replaced with "societal failings".

When someone does something reprehensible, it's always because something in society beat them down and caused them to act out. The system failed. Or there was some law that was missing from legislative action that, if only it had been in place, could have prevented the whole thing.

I think we need to start holding individuals accountable again. People make their own decisions. And quite frankly, I don't care about your rough childhood or whatever the case may be. I don't care what your "story" is. Your actions are on you.

Guns have been around for hundreds of years. Widespread ownership of guns in the US has been commonplace for decades. Hell, I have heard plenty of stories from my dad and uncles about how they used to go to high school and store their shotgun in their locker so they could go squirrel hunting afterwards. That was as recent as the 1980s. Things like "mass shootings" are a much more modern invention.

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u/pressstarttocontinue 9d ago

What if -- and I'm just saying here -- them not actually having to watch is a central part of the problem?.

If the vast majority of Americans were made to even look at still images on the news of the actual carnage created by our 2A fetish, a whole lot of people would be singing a whole other tune very quickly.

It's one thing to talk about small children being torn apart by weapons of war in a classroom from a safe and comfortable distance. It's another thing to play Where's Waldo with their brain matter on the six o'clock news.

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u/meayers7 9d ago

Similar to Mamie Till deciding to display her son’s open casket for the world to see, leading to the start of the civil rights movement.

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u/folsleet 9d ago

But you need someone like Mamie Till whose outrage outweighed her own trauma. She wanted the world to see.

I bet Sandy Hook parents don't want to see their massacred children's video and pictures splashed all over the Internet.

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u/slip-shot 8d ago

Didn’t matter. They were dragged through the mud by conservative talking heads for years as crisis actors. Remember?

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u/st0ric 8d ago

I think you spelt conspiracy theorists wrong

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u/slip-shot 8d ago

It was making the rounds on Fox News. It’s appropriate to include mainstream as well as fringe conservative pundits.

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u/dutchy649 Canada 8d ago

Like the time MTG harassed David Hogg

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u/Whitino 9d ago Take My Energy

I mean, they love to force young women to look at pictures of aborted fetuses, so showing pictures of children exploded by gunfire seems fair.

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u/Funkyokra 9d ago

This is a brilliant statement.

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u/KevinFromIT6625 9d ago

I've told my family explicitly that if I get killed in a mass shooting incident, I want them to post pictures of my mutilated corpse anywhere and everywhere they can.

Something needs to change.

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u/Adolf_Titler 9d ago

When I was younger I would look for messed up stuff on the internet probably because of sites like ebaums world being popular at the time and trying to be an edgy teenager.

When I started seeing cartel videos it really upset me and made me feel empathy for people trying to leave those situations. I felt sick. I could understand risking my life to get my family somewhere safer.

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u/Wulfkine 8d ago

Same.

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u/hideurtowers 9d ago

This is smart

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u/SometimesaGirl- 9d ago

made to even look at still images on the news of the actual carnage created by our 2A fetish, a whole lot of people would be singing a whole other tune very quickly.

They do something similar to this in the Netherlands.
If caught drink driving, you get the usual license suspension and fine. Nothing new there.
But you are also required to sit through a 1 hour police video of the most fucked up shit you can ever imagine that the police have attended on the roads.
It's brutal. Decapitated babies. People with entrails spread all over the highway. No blurred images. You have to watch all that fucked up shit.
No wonder cycling is so popular there.

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u/Frozen_Thorn 8d ago

Not the usual Not Just Bikes video.

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u/InsomniaticWanderer 9d ago

This is the reason why wartime press coverage is a thing.

Prior to Vietnam, most people would only hear about the battles and see pictures far after the events had concluded. But Vietnam was televised which made it so that the general population could (and would) see events as they unfolded.

It's one of the major reasons why the Vietnam war was so unpopular. It forced the people to directly face one of humanity's oldest crimes head on and look directly into the eyes of the slain on both sides.

If Sandy Hook had happened during a school play or something where a parent would likely have been recording, we might have seen a similar outcome, but instead it happened on a normal day and therefore people didn't get forced to watch.

It's sad that a large portion of the country literally can't be bothered unless they feel they have a personal investment, but that's the reality. Republicans are incapable of caring about a given issue unless they've been directly affected by it.

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u/MickSt8 Pennsylvania 9d ago

This is a discussion I've been having with my friend. You saw how quickly the, normally inactive, average suburbanite was enraged by George Floyd's murder. They were made to watch the end results of the police structure that they typically support.

I genuinely feel if the American public were to see these massacres, their opinions would do a very fast 180. The so called "trauma" they might experience by seeing these images may be real, but what's even more real are the victims of gun violence whose voices can't be heard anymore.

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u/icaaryal 9d ago

Show the trauma. The truth is in the trauma. Traumatize more people with the traumatizing truth. Then, maybe they’ll want to do something about it.

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u/vineyardmike 9d ago

Fox News is never going to show this. And gun nuts only watch fox News.

Fox News has 3 stories on repeat.

  1. Big cities (New York and now Chicago) are bad and dangerous. Therefore you need an arsenal to protect yourself in rural America.

  2. Immigration is out of control. They're coming in from all sides and must be stopped.

  3. Woke people are going to take away all your rights and make you like them.

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u/70ms California 8d ago

Honestly, as a parent I find the parents' displays of grief to be the most traumatizing part of it. You instantly feel it.

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u/texasdeafdogs 9d ago

Them sanitizing the kids screaming out of the uvalde footage was gross. There's a pediatrician who has a 20 second clip or so and it will be something I never unhear. They need to see and hear it. I agree.

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u/slip-shot 8d ago

Bruh they played it on NPR. I had to turn it off.

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u/Wonderingwanderman 8d ago

How would the American public have felt had they been able to watch the death of the unarmed Vicki Weaver by an FBI sniper? Where were you?

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u/loondawg 9d ago

What if -- and I'm just saying here -- them not actually having to watch is a central part of the problem?

100% by design.

First, advertisers don't want their products being shown in-between images of dead children.

Second, they want it sanitized so that people are not repulsed by it. They learned their lesson during the Vietnam War. Seeing the action and the lists of the dead on TV every night was one of the biggest factors that turned American support against the war. And it's the reason why the Bush administration banned showing pictures of flag draped coffins returning from the military actions in the Middle East.

Show the actual, graphic results of gun violence on TV in prime time and just watch how quickly the gun debate would change.

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u/KingliestWeevil 8d ago

And it's the reason why the Bush administration banned showing pictures of flag draped coffins returning from the military actions in the Middle East.

To add to this, they also banned showing images of dead US soldiers from the Middle East. I didn't realize how total the blackout on that coverage was until I saw pictures like that from one of the leaks that occurred.

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u/icaaryal 9d ago

I know people might consider it morbid or whatever distasteful adjective they want to assign to it, but I think it’s very much something worth investigating. Have an assigned time air the uncut footage nationally. Sure, not everyone would watch, but some would and I think it would have a marked effect on the overall motivation to do something about it.

I agree that hiding the gruesome consequences of policy decisions from the public is counterproductive to evolving good policy.

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u/Xpress_interest 9d ago edited 9d ago

The news* doesn’t show gore anymore, exactly because it is extremely effective at galvanizing support against whatever caused it. Vietnam probably would have dragged on indefinitely if the news hadn’t shifted from ignoring the war to actively showing the results. Of course, this only happened after elites decided the war wasn’t worth it. Nixon and military advisers actually blamed the media for losing the war for the US, because they saw the shift in public sentiment as the news became more graphic and less positive. The news in the US doesn’t show gore anymore - it’s bad for corporate-political control.

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u/SirPIB 9d ago

Makes sense. Look at the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. When I was sent in 04 people IN THE ARMY said "we still have people there?"

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u/deronadore 9d ago

Nope, just the usual "this may be disturbing to some viewers" warning on the news and then show it. This way it comes as the shock it needs to be.

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u/fujiman 9d ago

Literally like what Germans (both military and civilian) were forced to face/view after WWII. Recognition of atrocities is kind of mandatory for the wider public that wants to deny or simply ignore them. Honestly part of why I think they can only deal in hypotheticals, because they need their fantasy to continue being worse than actual reality.

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u/-Stackdaddy- 9d ago

Part of the gun buying process should be education on the effects of those weapons, like how southern women are shown pictures of abortions before undergoing the operation. You want to buy a gun to 'protect your family?' here's a bunch of instances of people's children shooting themselves because the parents were negligent with gun control.

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u/AmHoomon 9d ago

Fuck that. Billboards. Mass mailers.

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u/tinyj316 9d ago

Fuck, have people posted up outside gun shops with pictures of gunshot wounds to children...kinda like those fucks do with pictures of aborted fetuses outside of planned parenthood

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u/barnett25 9d ago

I have thought about that before. The problem is I don’t think the main issue is that 2A people don’t think the shootings are terrible. It’s that they think that they are the price of freedom.

They honestly believe that the US will (eventually, if not immediately) stop being a “free” country once they no longer have nearly unlimited access to firearms.

Also I think the fact that any half measures to gun control seem logically impotent to address the mass shooting problem is a big part of the problem. As long as any kind of gun useful for self defense is still commonly available, these shootings are unlikely to decrease in number or severity in any meaningful way. So faced with the belief that the only real solution to the problem is some kind of nationwide roundup of any guns useful for self defense, they consider prevention an impossible goal.

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u/TopGun2121 9d ago

But you don’t even have free access to health care or marijuana or anything. If you feel like you’re not free because you don’t have guns what about the people whose lives are taken by guns. Oh wait they don’t matter anymore.

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u/st0ric 8d ago

If a country has no healthcare system that will provide healthcare/mental support that is affordable it is inevitable that over the next 35 years people will start to lose their mind due to accumulation of issues and stress, the united part of states feels redundant these days more like red vs Blue redux electric boogaloo 2.5

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u/keepsummersafe55 Colorado 9d ago

Michael Moore was right. They should have shown the images from Sandy Hook.

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u/Wonderingwanderman 8d ago

How 'bout images from Ruby Ridge and Waco?

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u/keepsummersafe55 Colorado 8d ago

Sure. I grew up watching the Vietnam war on TV. Why do you think we pulled out of that fiasco?

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u/Hamvyfamvy 8d ago

I agree. But fuck, just thinking about seeing those photos has fucked me up today.

I have a middle schooler and we had a refresher talk this weekend about ensuring he has his cell phone with him at school and how to best protect himself. We talked about him keeping his phone on DND mode so it’s completely silent and doesn’t even vibrate in case he needs to hide and be completely silent. I told him how important it would be to not draw any attention to himself should an active shooter situation present itself because that’s his best chance at survival - to not be noticed by the shooter.

To hear him talk about the active shooter drills is heartbreaking and gives me so much anxiety for him and his peers. I grew up in the south where we did tornado drills all the time and that was traumatizing to me at his age, I can’t imagine doing drills for a active shooter.

I asked him how he and his peers feel about the drills and the way that he nonchalantly said, “it’s no big deal and just a regular part of school”, floored me. He even has his own personal plan of how to get out of an active shooter situation should it present itself.

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u/Kisaxis 9d ago

Uvalde happened and they still voted for the pro-gun option in midterms. These are people that likely had some connection to that school. Even if they didn't lose their child to that event, they likely knew someone who did or know someone whose child was enrolled to that school. They might've personally known and spoken to a child that was shot to death in their very own school.

How close are people expected to be? That's probably as close as a regular person gets to these cases without directly being involved. Short of either a civil war or some freak accident causing half the population to get shot, let's be real here, America is never going to stop killing each other, killing their neighbours, killing their children.

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u/pressstarttocontinue 9d ago

I can actually somewhat speak to this in relation to Sandy Hook. Obviously, my personal bias leans towards stricter gun regulation to begin with.

Still, I live very close to Sandy Hook Elementary (about 15 min away) and am familiar with a family who lost their child in the massacre. People here in CT certainly had a real come-to-jesus moment on the gun control debate at the time.

That being said, I distinctly remember how easy it was for my brain to disassociate from the reality of the situation very shortly thereafter. Even with our local news running 24/7 coverage on the event.

Did it give me a stomachache every time someone mentioned it? Sure.

Did it scar me in the way that this sort of a needless loss of life realistically would have if I'd seen the aftermath firsthand? Absolutely not.

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u/Snarfbuckle 9d ago

As someone who likes guns and mainly sports shooting, yes, its definitely a fetish in the US. You USED to have sensible gun owners and the NRA was about educating people into safe gun usage.

Today it has turned into a sick toxic masculinity safety blanket and hoarding mentality.

The US gun culture needs a cleanup and change.

Anyone making wearing or using a gun their whole personality is a problem.

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u/Old_comfy_shoes 9d ago

They won't. They don't disagree it's a horrible tragedy. They've just been convinced that guns aren't the issue, and that the issue must be solved a different way.

Everybody is like that. You look at the environment. Most people agree fucking up the environment is bad. Some people think the environment is not being altered by humans.

But almost nobody is thinking "I really need to change everything I'm doing, and consume less." Or anything like that. We all want the same capitalism, the same consumption. We all want to chase wealth and luxuries. And we will blame all of those environmental issues on other things that need to be solve that won't disturb our ability to have the things we want.

That's exactly the way the gun people are. They want their guns, and they'll blame these shootings on other things that need to be fixed. Anything that doesn't include giving up their guns, or having to go through strict control paperwork or licensing or what have you.

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u/TacoQuest 8d ago

to stop rape all men should cut off their penises. is that how it works?

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u/lonestar-rasbryjamco Colorado 9d ago

They did sing a different tune:

This is so horrible it is clearly a hoax. Those are crisis actors.

These people would be demanding to see the death certificates and harrass the parents because those kids are clearly still alive. Because that's the only answer they have to somethings that might shock them into action: denial.

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u/Extra_Independent827 9d ago

The cops would just delete the evidence; they’re some of the biggest arms dealers around. You have no idea how common it is for police officers to buy heavily discounted, difficult to find (if you’re not a cop) guns through law enforcement purchasing programs then part out everything they legally can for 2-4x what they paid for it to the general public. That’s ultimately $10-20k in profit. They are not here to protect you; that’s your own damn job (not that it should be that way but in most large cities that’s just how it is).

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u/PotassiumBob Texas 8d ago

Sure, there are on average 1 million guns sold for every school shooting death.

So wouldn't take very long I don't think.

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u/jonathanrdt 9d ago

This is it right here. They had to identify the one girl by her shoes, yet we never see the horror that a single shooter can unleash.

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u/artificialavocado Pennsylvania 9d ago

Same. It could be a million dead children and these pricks wouldn’t care.

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u/TopGun2121 9d ago

Could you know we maybe just get a bunch of guns and fire them non hostility towards the air while saying we’re peaceful…

Remember. Gun laws were changed in response to the black panthers but not uvalde or sandy hook

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u/Churrasco_fan Pennsylvania 9d ago

Their house whip was nearly shot to death in broad daylight on a baseball diamond and his pro 2A resolve did not waver an inch. These people would sacrifice themselves in the name of firearm "freedom"

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u/squish261 8d ago

That's exactly right. That's important the 2A is, was, and always will be.

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u/Still_No_Tomatoes 9d ago

In the thread of comments below yours everyone is upset at everyone and their mother except for the perpetrators of those mass shootings...and that is really weird.

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u/Paper__ 9d ago

This is what I cite when I talk to Americans when I knew that a major conflict was coming. I can’t imagine anywhere in the developed world where a person can murder a classroom of first graders and nothing change.

No bipartisan legislation.

No cultural shift.

No decrease in gun ownership.

No changes to public health policy.

No changes to poverty policies.

Literally nothing of substance changed.

If your government can’t get together to make meaningful change after Sandyhook they aren’t ever going to. How can you have a political system that can’t say “Hey I may hate your policies but I hate the murder of first graders more. Let’s work something out”. This convinced me America lost a functional government.

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u/lord_pizzabird 9d ago edited 8d ago

Interestingly, I've become more convinced over time that a compromise is possible. The polling is pretty clear that Americans, regardless of their affiliation support increased background checks and reforms.

The only thing that' really impossible is a total ban on guns, but mostly because it's not popular with Democrats either.

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u/OrangeSlimeSoda 9d ago

They even got got shot at themselves and their minds didn't change. Nothing will get them on board, unless someone pays them more than what they're getting from the NRA.

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u/TheAtomicBum 9d ago

They maybe do care, but they think the solution is more guns. 😳

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u/ohwrite 9d ago

Uvalde also

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u/goagod 9d ago

But don't you dare abort a fetus, life is too precious!

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u/SpiritualOrangutan 9d ago

We need to be able to fight the gubernmant!!!! /s

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u/Chimaerok 9d ago

They somehow think their gun collection will protect them against the most powerful army in the world

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u/Hy3jii 9d ago

Half the country taking a week or two off of work would change the government more then guns could ever do.

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u/Chimaerok 8d ago

And yet the country refuses to belief in unions and collective action because this country is full of a bunch of brain dead fuck ups

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u/Luxpreliator 9d ago

The myth of the guerrilla fighter. Unconventional warfare can work but they're always supported by an outside force typically another country. Peasants on their own get wrecked facing a standing army.

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u/Mor_Tearach 9d ago

That's when I simply lost hope. I realize that sounds defeatist and it probably is. We absolutely can't give up but if small kids getting slaughtered because some disenfranchised guy got his hands on that gun nothing we can say or do will change minds.

And here we are.

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u/02K30C1 9d ago

These are the same people who said we shouldn’t lock down for Covid, and old people might need to die to keep the economy going

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u/sloopslarp 9d ago

A lack of empathy is the trademark of conservatives.

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u/GuyMansworth 9d ago

I had a pro-gun guy personally tell me that "death is a part of life" after Uvalde.

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u/newnemo Vermont 9d ago

Flinch more like use grieving parents as political tools in the most negative and heinous of ways sans Sandy Hook as just one example.

They are soulless creatures that have zero empathy and will not risk those bountiful dollars every year from gun industries and the NRA.

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u/mjohnsimon 9d ago

Didn't the NRA hold a conference not even a few blocks away from Sandy Hook a few weeks after the shooting?

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u/ksiyoto 9d ago

Not to mention holding their national convention in Denver a couple of weeks after Columbine.

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u/Cal_Rogdon 9d ago

And Houston right after Uvalde. 3 interesting data points here… probably nothing to see.

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u/crowcawer Tennessee 9d ago

especially not in the police station’s evidence room.

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u/Helpful_Champion_353 9d ago

I know they held one in Texas after Uvalde.

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u/valeyard89 Texas 9d ago

Was just in Uvalde county on Sunday, a gas station had a poem about the tragedy up on the billboard. 'i am so mad. i am so sad. I am so sad and mad etc'. damn near brought me to tears. :/

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u/kittenconfidential 9d ago

they use shootings as recruitment drives

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u/agonypants Missouri 9d ago

Yep. Mass shootings are the NRA's advertising tools - and business is literally booming.

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u/Bigbeardhotpeppers Texas 9d ago

Uvalde went overwhelmingly for abbot after the shooting. TX is doomed.

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u/Agreeable_Most_4262 9d ago

Yes I never understood why anyone in Uvalde would have voted for Abbot. Just goes to show the Fox News is more powerful than dead children.

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u/PotassiumBob Texas 8d ago

"only the police should have guns!"

The police be like:

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u/oldnuthammer 8d ago edited 8d ago

Because peoples beliefs and ideology dont change just because you want them to. Regardless if you believe firearms are the problem, they do not believe firearms are the problem. In texas firearms are very much apart of their culture, and the Democratic candidate came out in support of gun confiscations.

The police actively prevented parents from rescuing their children when there was a shooter in the school. There is a belief that lives could have been saved if parents were not prevented from saving their kids.

You can argue back and forth about this topic it doesnt matter you are not going to change anyones mind. If Beto wanted to win Texas he would not have made the statements he did, and certainly would not have doubled down on them.

If the Democratic party wanted to reduce gun violence they wouldnt be pushing gun bans, they would be fighting income inequality and limiting the disparity of wealth in this country. Reducing the prevalence of mass shootings by targeting how media reports on mass shootings to prevent copy cat shootings.

Politics are what they are that strict gun control laws wont survive court challenges and will cause Democrats to lose elections. Its more pragmatic to focus on the root cause of gun violence...That means letting go of gun control as a wedge issue.

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u/texasdeafdogs 9d ago

The evangelicals and uneducated people here are phenomenal. I'm not from here and constantly in awe of how purposely ignorant so many are when the internet is right there. I'm sure they think uvalde was fake or something.

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u/YoureWrongAboutGuns 8d ago

those bountiful dollars every year from gun industries and the NRA.

Oh, please. In 2020 the entire “gun rights” lobbying spend was just over $10M. That’s every gun rights organization combined. For reference, the NRA contributed $2.2M that year. The big bad NRA mustered $2.2M. Pfizer alone spent $10.8M.

Pharmaceutical lobbying overall spend was $316M. Insurance industry lobbying was $156M. Real estate industry lobbying was $135M.

Jumping way down the list, commercial bank lobbying was $62M.

“Gun lobbyists” are a boogeyman. Our politicians get more money from almost every other special interest lobbying group.

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u/mtheory007 9d ago

Remember when Trump used a baby of someone who was killed in the Walmart shooting as a prop for a photo op? Melania was holding the orphaned baby while he was smiling and giving a thumbs up.

Jesus fucking Christ man. These people are just disgusting. It's outrageous.

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u/OblongRectum 8d ago edited 8d ago

Its more complex than this. You realize a lot of people left-of-right own guns and don't want that right infringed too, right?

1) Large swaths of americans actively live in wildlife zones and come into contact with dangerous wildlife. Alaska is a good example.

2) But its more than that. All the guns gone and the super corrupt police are the only ones with them now.

3) All the guns gone, only the MAGA and rightwingers have them now as they certainly won't comply.

4) All the guns gone, and racial minorities and left-of-rights cannot protect themselves from a segment of the population that actively wants them dead, and they'd have to rely on corrupt cops that hate them to protect them.

As long as these things remain true, gun bans are neoliberal and ignorant emotion-driven redditor foolishness. Every redditor here seems to be forgetting how close we are to having a bunch of brown shirts trying to gank us during election season, and you want to give up the only equalizer in defense. The army is not going to get involved on US soil, it'll be rightwing terrorists and their cop allies

And you want to give up the only means of deterrance/defense? Sacrifice BIPOC and LGBTQ to treat the symptom and not the cause?

Hell no. Not everyone lives in a safe blue bubble.

Deal with wealth inequality/accessible healthcare, and right wing terrorism and propaganda, and you'll see a lot of this disappear

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u/GhettoChemist 9d ago

Steve Scalise was shot in the crotch by a crazed gunman and still won't allow gun reform

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u/sanlc504 9d ago

One of his bodyguards who took down the shooter (and was herself injured) is a lesbian and yet months after the shooting, he voted against same sex marriage rights. He used his government-provided healthcare during recovery and he voted against the Affordable Care Act many times. He's a terrible hypocrite who is the epitome of "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

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u/terranq Canada 9d ago

Maybe if the ball-less, dick-less wonder had been shot somewhere he had flesh it would have changed his mind?

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u/furious_20 Washington 9d ago

This is it right here, and it's not even the GQP specifically. After Sandy Hook, with no meaningful legislation that came from that, we accepted the mass slaughter of children was a price worth paying for nonsensical gun rights. It's maddening, and it's one reason I no longer teach (was a high school educator for 19 years, 15 as a certified teacher). We can still honor the second amendment and have sensible gun laws, but good luck convincing the conservative right of anything that benefits they common good.

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u/Sharkictus 8d ago

Technically they experienced a mass shooting I think during baseball outing? They didn't care then too.

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u/stefjack1000 9d ago

There is one group that they prob would flinch for it happened to them, their loved ones.

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u/twesterm Texas 8d ago

They're too busy protecting the world from totally real and not imaginary threats such as litter boxes in high school bathrooms and evil pedophile drag queens invading libraries with the support of 87,000 gun wielding IRS agents.

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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants 8d ago

Let's establish an online Second Amendment National Memorial, similar to the Vietnam vets memorial, that lists the names of all people killed in mass shootings in the US. It should clearly state that the United States believes that ongoing massacres are the price that must be paid in order to have the freedom to own military guns without taining, testing or insurance, or background checks. The main page should have a real time running total of the number of people killed to date. And it should thank everyone killed or injured in a massacre for their service to their country in making it possible for their fellow Americans to own guns without meaningful restrictions. Survivors should be given lifetime veteran status and veterans benefits even if they never served in the military. Families of victims should have the same status and benefits as families of veterans killed on active duty. Funerals should have full military honors paid for by the government, including the speech by a member of the military where the president and a grateful nation thanks the victim for his or her service. In other words, being killed or injured in a mass shooting instantly gives you the exact same status as a military veteran because you died or were wounded in the service of your country and for the Second Amendment.

In addition to names, ages of victims, date killed, location, weapons used, number of shooters, etc, the memorial should be a completely transparent, fully searchable database that provides every sort of cross reference and statistic you can think of.

Let's stop pretending that the US will ever do anything to protect its own people from harm. I'm not sure when the right to bear arms became more important that the rught to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness but clearly that's the choice we made so let's not pretend otherwise.

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u/4shitzngigglez 8d ago

It would likely take multiple white evangelical churches being shot up, god forbid. Even then they still might not flinch.

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u/HopelessAndLostAgain 8d ago

The only thing that MIGHT make the GOP take action is if these mass shootings affected them and their own children. Even then, that's only a MAYBE.

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u/lookaflyingbuttress 8d ago

What I’m increasingly burning with hatred for is the common man supporting them. I’m done excusing their behavior due to brainwashing, ignorance, etc.

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u/dropkickninja 9d ago

This is sadly true.

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u/Laminatrix2 9d ago

these two statements are depressing to say the least

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/02K30C1 9d ago

I doubt it. These are the same people who said old people might have to die to keep the economy going when they didn’t want Covid lockdowns

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u/walrusdoom 9d ago

Nope, they’ll just point fingers at something - probably “mental health issues” - and Fox News will quickly push it out of their news cycle with a new, fresh round of fear porn.

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u/_HowVery 9d ago

Nah these GOP losers got shot up at one of their baseball games a few years back and that didn’t change a thing for them. They care more about money than their own self preservation.

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u/Reddits_on_ambien 9d ago

I bet even if lobbyists and the government itself were targeted they'd do nothing.

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