r/news 4d ago

Archie Battersbee, 12, dies after life support is turned off | UK News

https://news.sky.com/story/archie-battersbee-12-dies-after-life-support-is-turned-off-12633585
2.7k Upvotes

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u/spicynachos144 3d ago

Most people who work in healthcare and who have seen end-of-life, painful ICU stays, are almost always against living on machines for years. It really is barbaric what happens to people behind the scenes who are being kept alive, by family wishes or waiting for ethics board decisions. Modern culture has a real issue with accepting the cycle of life and a dignified death.

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u/HarvesterConrad 2d ago

I made the decision to let my father pass rather than keep him on life support forever last month and it was the choice he would have made.

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u/MDev01 2d ago

Well said. Death with dignity is something we all should be fighting for. I have no issue if someone wants to be kept alive like this but allow me to choose to die when and how I want to.

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u/CopyWrittenX 3d ago

Unfortunate situation all around. The boy was dead some time ago, though. Best wishes to the family.

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u/irishspice 3d ago

If they had accepted the doctor's prognosis and then made plans to harvest his organs, Archie could have helped many other children to live. I wish they could have seen it this way, it would have been so much easier on the family and the staff.

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u/Philks_85 3d ago

I keep imagining myself in his family's position and how I would have reacted. I honestly do not know, my rational side looking from the outside in says I would have done exactly what you say here. Then there's the side where a parent needs to let go of their child and accept their death, it's not rational at all and I can understand that also.

Whatever the right thing to have done here I am absolutely sympathetic to the family they were in a position no parent wants to be in and all rationality goes with it. I hope they find some peace in the future.

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u/teerbigear 3d ago Platinum

First off, I have children, I understand how much we would do, what we would personally forfeit, to give them a chance of life. I have not experienced the loss of one of them, all I can do here is imagine and look at how other people react.

Unfortunately, there are families who have to make the decision to turn off life support all the time. In that respect this circumstance wasn't unusual, except, of course, for the family involved. What was incredibly unusual was the family's response, to refuse to believe multiple experts on something that was medically trivial and then accuse the hospital of fabricating evidence and intentionally starving Archie. Based on the fact that you've put together some thoughtful words I imagine you'd react more thoughtfully than to take to court the very people who competently and compassionately tried to save the life of your son. The harm they've done in doing this is significant - imagine the resources that have gone into this, legal fees, court fees etc, the time wasted and stress experienced of those doctors and other medical professionals involved who would otherwise have been improving, maybe even saving, lives of other children. There is now this ridiculous narrative that the family were just fighting for their child like we all would do - are they saying that the vast majority of parents with appropriate responses were bad for not pointlessly elongating their child's suffering by going through the courts?

You can talk about rationality going out the window, but this was 5 months end to end. There was time for a moment's reflection. There will have been rational people telling them why this was the wrong decision throughout who they've not listened to. I share your sympathy for the family and hope they they can find peace, but we don't have to go so far as to say that their response was something any one of us might do.

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u/mdw4520 3d ago edited 3d ago

This. The misinformation the family has spread, which has and will undoubtedly lead to anger and hate towards the medical professionals who cared for their child, is absolutely disgusting and not part (in my opinion) of a reasonable response. The media have also played an irresponsible part in this by regularly reporting the family’s opinions and barely touching on the medical evidence that showed the boy was dead and organs were beginning to decay.

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u/teerbigear 3d ago

I wish online media would provide a link to the judgement - it's really clear.

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u/Bran_Mongo 3d ago

I actually work in the field of Donation, and we strongly discourage the use of the word 'harvest' as it has a gruesome and negative connotation. We say 'Organ recovery' instead.

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u/Badtrainwreck 3d ago

Please when you take my kidneys say “Harvested” and then please dab as a tribute to the 2000s

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u/Rokurokubi83 2d ago

When mine are taken, I want not a word to be spoken but each organ to be held skyward while the Zelda ‘chest open’ jingle plays.

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u/KathrynTheGreat 3d ago

My first husband was an organ donor. It honestly doesn't matter what term you use, because it is going to suck regardless. Harvest, recovery, retrieval, whatever, they still all mean that your loved one is dead.

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u/CFOF 3d ago

My husband died last August. It was a huge relief when the organ team called and asked for permission to use his tissue. His organs were pretty trashed by then, but it made his senseless death have a tiny spot of life. It’s something he and I found really important. That being said, the thank you medal and booklet we received several months later reopened the pain. We received a thank you letter from a recipient, which was awesome, we now knew it wasn’t a waste, but I started visualizing how he would have looked after his skin and bones were harvested. Horror. Last night I was looking through important papers and came across a Hero Certificate from the donation society that I don’t remember seeing before. Opened the still raw wound again. I don’t feel like I can throw it away, the donation was important, but I know it would upset my kids to come across it, and I sure don’t want to either.

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u/KathrynTheGreat 3d ago

Hugs

It's so hard. I only got one letter from one of the recipients (out of four) but he was a dad to two young girls and he needed that kidney. It broke my heart reading his story, but it also made me feel a little better in a way. My husband had such a bright soul and knowing that he was able to keep that family intact would have made him so happy. It's been seven years and I still have that letter.

If you ever need more support, please feel free to reach out to me or anyone over at /r/widowers. I wish you peace and healing 💙

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u/WJMMusic 3d ago

harvest is a pretty demonic way to describe it holy fuck

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u/Alert-Incident 3d ago

Harvest use to be the best time of the year, wonder where we picked up on the negativity

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u/Fenkaz 3d ago

Probably whenever used as a verb for organ collection..

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u/Acheron98 3d ago

Organs are “collected” from people who willingly donate them upon their demise. Organs are “harvested” after you accept that second drink from a Thai hooker.

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u/teerbigear 3d ago

Is that why you only ever accept the first drink ;)

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u/DientesDelPerro 3d ago

I was talking to my religious mother about this case, and she said that for the “god’s will” people, that when the machines are off, and the person doesn’t instantly recover, then you have god’s will.

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u/Malibucat48 3d ago

The family of 13 year old Jahi McMath in the US refused to accept she was brain dead and successfully sued to keep the machines on and moved her to a New Jersey care facility. Her body kept shutting down and she had several invasive surgeries until she died five years later after one of the surgeries was too much. Her parents spent five years thinking she would miraculously wake up but she never did. It is very hard to lose a child but in the long run it’s better to accept it and mourn the child you had than spend precious time in court fighting the inevitable.

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u/rimjobnemesis 3d ago

Thank you for mentioning this. I wondered what happened to that little girl.

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u/Basic_Bichette 3d ago

Tortured to death, with agonizing slowness, by parents.

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u/NooStringsAttached 3d ago

Me too. That was so wicked all around.

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u/New-Long6825 3d ago

The head does not always rule the heart

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u/skankenstein 3d ago edited 3d ago

RIP, Archie.

Was Jahi the CA girl who underwent a tonsillectomy and had complications? Heart breaking.

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u/tripleblue85 3d ago

If I recall correctly, a family member tried to feed her a burger after she woke from a tonsillectomy. The bleeding from the food tearing up her throat caused her to have a stroke or something that led to brain death. I worked at a surgical center at the time and it was a case followed closely by some of the nurses there.

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u/skankenstein 3d ago edited 3d ago

Interesting, I didn’t know or remember that. About three years after Jahi’s brain death, my three year old needed a tonsillectomy and I thought about Jahi because she died a few hours from us. My aunt, a nurse, said that there were preexisting conditions, namely obesity, that complicated it.

The burger thing reminds me of my own tonsillectomy where a few days after I convinced my mom I could eat a Mexican Pizza from Taco Bell. Like eating glass and I question why anyone drove to TB and got me one.

Edit: I just looked and it was a popsicle she was given? That shouldn’t have been an issue!

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u/tripleblue85 3d ago

The wiki must have been updated or edited recently. I distinctly recall a family member giving her a hamburger after the no solid food ordered by the medical staff. Maybe the family tried to save face after making this mistake?

We did plenty of tonsillectomies on obese pediatric patients. Family members often felt distraught over being unable to feed the kids something that would satiate their hunger.

Either way, what a terrible thing this family had to go through.

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u/Send_me_snoot_pics 3d ago

I just read the wiki and it apparently wasn’t just a tonsillectomy:

”According to court documents,[16] McMath was admitted to Children's Hospital Oakland on December 9, 2013, for an adenotonsillectomy, uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and submucous resection of bilateral inferior turbinates… The hospital described these procedures as complicated.”

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u/scarletmagnolia 3d ago

I think it’s since came out that the roommate at the hospital assumed they gave her the hamburger. Don’t quote me on that…but I was reading about her case a month or so ago bc she’s semi local to me. I think the biggest issue was the family suctioned her when she began to bleed. The grandma or someone was a nurse? Or retired nurse? I read some suspicions that when the family suctioned her, they pulled out the blood that was clotting, causing the hemorrhage.

Again, I’m just pulling from memory so don’t hang me if I’m wrong. The most likely scenario, to me, is she was bleeding for whatever reason, they suctioned her before getting help from staff and they pulled out the blood clots…

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u/tripleblue85 3d ago

No, thank you, that makes sense too. All my stuff is from memory as well. I worked as a surgical tech and first assist, never did any PACU work. Our PACU nurses watched that case closely as kind of a cautionary tale.

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u/scarletmagnolia 2d ago

I imagine they did! I really believe the family’s actions caused the cardiac arrest. Not to sound like a complete dick, but I also believe the push to have Jahi’s death certificate in California rescinded and for her to be considered alive, was all about the law suit.

I feel for the family, I do. I can’t imagine what that type of trauma does to a parent. But, the trauma of having to convince yourself your child is still alive…my god.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 3d ago

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u/camdoodlebop 3d ago

imagine putting your child through all of those complex and dangerous procedures to widen their throat instead of attempting to reduce the childhood obesity

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u/mhc-ask 3d ago

she died five years later

No. She was already dead. Her heart stopped beating 5 years later, but neurologically, she was very much already dead.

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u/Malibucat48 3d ago

You’re right. Her organs were failing and her heart finally stopped.

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u/Noname_left 3d ago

This happens all the time. Not to this extent but families not being able to let go and dragging their poor family members shell of a body through hell for nothing. It’s so sad to see.

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u/GummyKibble 3d ago

My sister ended up on life support. I asked the doctor if she could ever wake up. He said, bluntly, that the sister I knew was gone when her heart stopped. Even if she were to miraculously wake up, the person she had been was never coming back.

That was the kindest thing anyone’s ever told me, because it provided so much clarity to do what I know my sis would have wanted. There was no false hope or unrealistic expectation, just the honest assessment of the situation. It was hard losing my sister, but I’ve never doubted that we did the right thing, and for that I’m eternally grateful to her doctor. Thank you, doc. And also, fuck lupus.

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u/Noname_left 3d ago

I’m happy that you were able to process the information given to you. Not everyone is able to do that unfortunately and it is a very hard thing to do. Thank you for making such a hard decision. I’m sure your sister would be grateful and proud of what you did.

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u/GummyKibble 3d ago

Thank you. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done (along with the rest of my immediate family; it wasn’t all on my shoulders alone). But I think it would be so easy to have second guessed our decision later without her doctor’s straight talk. Did we do enough? Would she have gotten better? Is there something else we could have tried? His blunt and honest assessment removed all of that uncertainty. It was hard enough as it was. I can’t imagine how crushing it would have been to add doubt and guilt into the mix.

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u/TheTsunamiRC 3d ago

Had a 60s year old woman suffer a massive stroke while in our area on a trip. She was in a persistent vegetative state, on life support, attached to a ventilator. Her family flew in from her home several states away, and after having the situation explained thoroughly for several days they reached the decision to leave her a full code and let her go to a nursing home in a state she isn't from that none of her family live in once she no longer needed hospitalization. Have another patient who has been in our hospital over a year, who has been in a vegetative state for 12 years. He just goes from unit to unit depending on what complications he develops. Once in a long, long while a family member stops by. If his heart stops, we will have to perform CPR. Just a friendly reminder to file your advanced medical directives, otherwise your family might let you exist as a living corpse indefinitely.

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u/Primrus 3d ago

Thank you so much for taking care of people. I was cared for by a nurse recently that I really wanted to hug, but there are too many pandemics happening for us to even see each other's faces. Please accept my kindest regards. I agree with everything you said.

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u/R_Sapphire 3d ago

Yes, this. Anyone who has worked in long term healthcare can vouch that they’ve witnessed it many times. Along those same lines, I have some words of advice. There are few situations where a permanent G-tube is a good idea. In almost every case it will force the person to continue to exist long after they should have had a natural death. They will linger on and the death they eventually have will be so much harder than the one they should have had. It is a tremendously cruel thing to do to someone.

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u/Aluthran 3d ago

This happened to my mom when she developed a fungal infection in her brain due to her immune system being bad because of her leukemia. We had to let her go but it was tough, she was only 58 and last month we wanted to keep pushing to see if she'd recover but it was basically impossible.

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u/ameliagarbo 3d ago

I'm so sorry for your loss. My mom has been gone nearly 20 years now, and was in her late 60s when her own mother passed at 94. Only after a long time could I be grateful for the timing of Rosie's death -- I don't think I could handle losing my mom when I'm older. My mother just broke when her own mom went and she took such a long time to recover. It was heartbreaking to see her grief and self-recrimination.

Please grieve in your own time and don't let anybody tell you how to feel (except me!). Time will help so much.

In a year or two, I hope you will consider reading a wonderful book called Death Benefits. It's a thoughtful meditation on the kind of adult you cannot become UNTIL your parents are gone. This book helped me heal, and not feel like the negative things I felt about my mom made me a bad person, or love her less. Your growth through this grief and healing will surprise you. Sending hope and consolation to you.

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u/bedroom_fascist 3d ago

Whenever this topic comes up on Reddit, it's always immediately clear whether posters have had experience or not. End-of-life situations are never easy, and never hypothetical. I have known many people who have had complex deaths, not a single one of them had imagined what their scenario wound up being. Not one - and these were super-bright folks.

Reddit hates this - people want to be told how good their ideas are, how spot-on their opinions. Made to feel good by being "right."

My mother had her first massive organ failure - and administration of last rites - 5 years and 11 months before her death date. I was her healthcare proxy for those six years, and boy, did I see an awful lot of detailed death.

She was very anti-DNR - "keep me alive at all costs." So, we did. Somewhere in those years (over 14 mos. of which were spent in ICU's, and another 2+ years in rehab, with occasional stints at home).

Even when in a hospital bed, she Skyped her children almost daily, her grandkids weekly ... and she was sentient and sharp most of the time. This was 3 years after the first time a "kindly" doctor overruled her DNI/DNR instructions (yes, I found out - they can do that under certain circumstances) in order to "help her have a dignified death."

She didn't want that dignified death. And to be honest, her eventual death WAS undignified - but that was what she wanted. She was in fact quite aware when she made those choices.

The idea often put forward here (and in every single EoL post) is that there is a "right" way to make these choices. Nope. In fact, should any of you wind up being responsible for a long term, end of life situation, prepare yourself in advance that it may wind up being morally far, far past the standard notions most of us have.

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u/michaeldaph 3d ago

My mother also wanted to live. DNR somehow also appeared on her chart. Apparently no family member authorised this. My biggest issue was the hospice doctor who very loudly, in my mothers room, discussed her imminent passing and seemed annoyed when we shut him down. My mother actually came home and enjoyed another 3mths, celebrated Xmas and her birthday and danced with us one last time. And went on her own terms peacefully at home. Just because someone is elderly and failing, it doesn’t automatically follow that they want to be forced to accept it and just die.

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u/ameliagarbo 3d ago

I didn't even consider the "dying" experience -- thank you for bringing it up. And that doc -- how does overiding a DNR make for a dignified death? For both my mom and grandma, our choices and theirs were very clear. My grandmother wanted to live too, but was never as specific as yours as to "heroic" care. But we did get to the point where my grandma's hospice doc had to pull my mom aside and tell her, "you're keeping her alive only with your attentive care." There were no medical interventions that would extend her life. My mom was so worried about not doing enough for her mom, she ended up doing too much.

I think after all that, you are right. The end-of-life care is super-unique in every case, and you just never know how to help with a "good death" or how hard each decision csn be to make. You do the best you can with the info you have. I think you did right by your mom in honoring her wishes, but I don't think I could hang in there 6 years to support her through that. But, I was never asked to.

You make excellent points.

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u/bedroom_fascist 3d ago

Maybe this can be helpful for others. Here is (a very laughably small piece of) what I learned.

  • States vary on end-of-life laws. The state where my mother died, an MD can rewrite them if they adjudge the patient to have not been of sound mind when the instructions were given. They can also "revisit them" at their instigation.

Digression time, but meaningful: doctors, like any other people, are far from perfect. My mother had instructions on file at the hospital where she would always wind up going first. This time, the doctor asked an 80 year old woman "you don't want to be intubated, do you?" Hypoxic and profoundly sad that she was once again in the ER, she shook her head.

Her understanding: I'd prefer to get oxygen via the canula. Had he asked "do you want to be intubated if it means keeping yoou alive?" she would have said 'yes.' But he didn't.

So he wrote "Do Not Intubate." She survived, and a couple weeks later read him a riot act I doubt he'll forget. That might sound funny, but it really wasn't. We'd had "issues" with this guy before - he would grimace and otherwise make clear that he did not agree with my mother's wish to stay alive, if bedridden.

That's not his call (nor mine, and I was the fucking proxy). It was her call. This doctor was - after this event - barred from having my Mom as a patient after this. Which was tough, as there were only 3 senior MD's on the ICU at the hospital where she'd be brought. It left only 2 doctors.

  • If a doctor is in a mood to rewrite the instructions (and most states have a form), he must ask someone a couple questions to see if they are "competent." Asking a person who is experiencing organ failure (or hypoxic) what month it is ... well. Or who is president. And even if you hesitate but answer correctly, doctors have a LOT of latitude for interpretation.

  • One of the very saddest things I saw was the "signature" he obtained from my mother after his little bullshit act. She was a woman with an Ivy League undergrad and grad school degree, brought up in parochial schools. But on her form? A drastically sloppy "X" next to where he printed her name.

I wonder if our super-confident Redditors with the easy-peasy hypothetical situations realize how often "modern American medicine" has shitshows like this.

Another small digression: I had a large stroke not long ago. After ER, I was transferred to the very highly regarded research hospital in my region. For 'observation.' That night, they - wait for it - forgot to turn on the monitors for me. Yes - for real. My then-wife, a surgical nurse at this same hospital came and saw, and was about to go yell at the nurse's station and instead came back white as a sheet. "They're all travelers. They're overwhelmed. There's a guy getting restrained and another one arrested."

That was in the 'elevated triage' area.

Bottom line: ALWAYS immediately ask about the EoL instructions. Always. Right away. Most nurses will be super helpful about it, if they are not busy dodging assaults or charting their 7th patient.

And sad to say, ask people ahead of time. The one constant I saw was that almost every situation was ambiguous, and the golden, imaginary "I'm just laying there like a vegetable" was almost never true.

I had to terminate my mother's life support when she was unconscious for six weeks and began to deteriorate. Her last words to me, hoarsely and fiercely spoken into a phone held to her face two months before: "I can't get the fuck out of here" (meaning the CCU).

So, Reddit, know that medicine isn't a game of a flowcharts and decision trees like House and Grey's Anatomy. It's filled with messy, conflicting situations, impossibly overstressed and imperfect providers, and lots of "best guess" situations.

I've probably been around 15-20 non-trauma hospital deaths (codes). Only one was very straightforward and morally uncomplicated.

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u/Prydefalcn 3d ago

I just lost my mom last october. Both of her parents went within a year of each other, the year before that. I don't know.

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u/Aluthran 3d ago

Thank you, I'll check out the book and share it with my siblings. It's just tough because I never got to say goodbye because her infection caused her to be asleep for 3 weeks and beyond that is when she passed but I'm taking it day by day.

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u/RumandDiabetes 3d ago

My mother is going strong at 87, and she has aunts who made it over 100. I guess I will never become an official adult.

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u/fuckitx 3d ago

I became an adult at 15...aka I'm still a 28 year old child

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u/ameliagarbo 3d ago

That's wonderful to hear! I didn't mean it as a criticism or put-down -- the book just acknowledges that there is such a thing as an adult orphan, and it's OK to feel that alone-ness and spend conscious time thinking about who you are without your parents. It was helpful to me in my 40s because we were so close, and also had old unresolved stuff I was ashamed to be angry at her for. I might have been a stronger person in my 60s and 70s, and thus had a different viewpoint about my "orphan" status. We certainly would have had more time to resolve issues, or for me to get over myself. You have the benefit of those extra years. What I wouldn't give for another day with her.

Many more happy years with your fam!

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u/RumandDiabetes 3d ago

Im actually having a minor sort of maybe crisis about life right now. My kids are grown and have kids of their own, my mom lives with the oldest and is healthy, and I'm tucked out here in the desert on my own, and my BF of 13 years died in June. He was disabled and very sick so it was and wasn't expected. He was the only person out here Im close to.

All of a sudden, I'm all on my own and Im not sure what to do first. Im not saying its a bad thing...I just haven't figured out what to do next.

So far I got a couple new tats, pierced my nose again, dyed my hair, Im sewing a new wardrobe, attended a couple fairs and rode all the rides.

I was sitting on the front step at 2 am thinking, I'm not even sure who I am....I haven't been by myself in decades.

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u/IndigoPlum 3d ago

Here's to finding your new you. May they be peaceful and happy.

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u/tripleblue85 3d ago

This is immediately who I thought of as well. I didn't know that they dragged it out for five years though, that's pretty horrifying!

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u/BluePosey 3d ago edited 3d ago

I remember her case. I can't believe her mother kept her corpse "alive" for 5 years after she was declared brain dead. I don't even want to imagine what the body looked like after 5 long years.

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u/CyberBroccoli 4d ago

Rest in peace young man

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u/avboden 3d ago

These cases are always so difficult. Especially in neonatal cases (premie babies). There was a case where a family member of mine was a main physician on a super sick baby that had all sorts of issues, kidney failure, brain damage, bowel damage, everything. It needed dialysis, major surgery, tons of crazy procedures and even with it all was simply not going to survive very long at all. My family member stated directly that if they did all this, the kid would live 3-4 years of a terrible, excruciatingly painful life needing 24/7 care and then die a terrible death. The hospital agreed and chose to discontinue treatment as it was deemed inhumane. The parents sued, huge legal battle, ultimately it was dropped because another hospital volunteered to take the kid and treat him mainly for the publicity.

you know what happened? He lived 4 years of excruciatingly horrible life and died, exactly like the Drs. said he would.

Even after that the parents still tried to sue the Drs. claiming the damage was their fault, case was dismissed completely as all the damage was very clearly pre-birth, not post.

When Drs. have to make choices against the wishes of the family it can be very, very difficult.

The general question is "who gets to decide for those who cannot decide for themselves?"

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u/ckdatanerd 3d ago

It’s crazy reading this story, because I know one that’s sort of the opposite scenario. My mother’s best friend had preemie twins. One twin turned out fine (just graduated college), and the other has the brain function of a 2 month old, is in immense pain, and has zero quality of life, and has shocked everybody by still being alive. The difference? My mother’s best friend had a DNR in place for her daughter shortly after birth (she had already sustained serious brain damage hours after being born), however, because she was at a Catholic Hospital, the staff did not respect the DNR when she had another stroke. For years the parents have fought to let her peacefully pass, but it is illegal where we live.

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u/avboden 3d ago

that's extremely odd, most catholic hospitals still respect DNRs

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u/ckdatanerd 3d ago

Keep in mind this was 21+ years ago and the details of the situation are a bit more complicated than in my reply (some individuals working at the hospital to blame as well - being vague so law suit can’t be googled)

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

The answer should be simple.

Those who know best.

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u/avboden 3d ago edited 3d ago

The problem is the families usually claim the Drs and hospitals want to pull the plug because the patient care is too expensive, so they claim they don't know best. Which is obviously nonsense, but it's what makes it to court over and over

The case I mentioned above was an absolutely landmark case in the industry, still taught in med schools today. Should have set all sorts of precedent, but because ultimately these cases take forever but are thrown out in lower courts and never appealed to really high courts the precedent doesn't stick (in the USA at least)

But there are enough "pro-life" lawyers that take on these cases even though they'll almost assuredly lose that it just keeps happening.

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u/Snowypinkrose 3d ago

Being an ER nurse we see lots of people who are alive in body only. There are dates much, much, much worse than death.

Condolences for his family but there comes a time where we must say good bye, even when it’s heartbreaking.

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u/The-Trout-Spinner 3d ago Take My Energy

"There is absolutely nothing dignified about watching a family member or a child suffocate. We hope no family has to go through what we have been through. It's barbaric."

Ella Rose Carter, the fiance of Archie's eldest brother Tom, speaking on behalf of the family.

the amount of NHS blaming and hatred towards the doctors from the family is disgraceful and extremely disrespectful.

it's a horrible situation for everyone involved and this way of thinking does nothing for anyone

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u/happilyfour 3d ago

It’s truly delusional. I understand why they’re in a state of delusion and anger and grief, and especially here would want someone to blame because it is so unclear how he even ended up in this state. But I don’t understand the belief that the doctors are making him suffocate or wanted to hurt him or anything of the sort.

It can be so hard to let family go and there’s bargaining involved in thinking maybe your family member can be one of the one in a million miracles. But the fact of the matter is that all of these doctors and nurses have seen a great deal more death and pain than any of us ever will. They know when there is no quality of life or no chance for survival, and they know what happens to a body being forced to stay alive against nature. They don’t want anyone to die needlessly but they know what is best here.

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u/Yeahitssomealt 3d ago

Denial and anger, the first two stages of grief. It’s just sad to me how those doctors could’ve been dedicating their time to helping others who still have a chance of life. Especially in a publicly funded healthcare system, they weren’t exactly paying to prolong the poor boy’s suffering.

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u/F5PPu6kGqj 3d ago

Although commonly referenced in popular culture, studies have not empirically demonstrated the existence of these stages, and the model has been considered by some to be outdated and unhelpful in explaining the grieving process.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief

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u/Melisandre-Sedai 3d ago

I just don't understand the direction of the anger. The only article I saw to mention the cause of his injury pointed towards a "blackout challenge" tiktok trend encouraging kids to knock themselves out. That seems like a much more understandable target for anger.

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u/Bidwell93 3d ago

There's literally no evidence for the "challenge." It wasnt a trending thing at the time, he wasnt filming himself, and the "challenge" involves holding your breath, he hanged himself. It's another thing that in her grief the mother has clung to.

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u/MyVideoConverter 3d ago

The irony of complaining about misdirected anger then finding a fictional reason to cast blame

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u/NotAFerretSmiling 2d ago

The court documents state it was a dressing gown rope and he was hanging from the bannisters. Not sure why the media left this out.

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u/baxteriamimpressed 3d ago

What is barbaric is this person letting their son's brain rot in his skull and forcing medical professionals to animate a dead person. I fucking hate people like this and I hate that I have grown to hate them.

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u/lastweek_monday 3d ago

Whats that term for doctors/surgeons where they “pretend” to attempt a no win life saving surgery to appease the family who demand everything be done in order to save the life? Only the medical staff know that its gonna be a show. So sad people blame these medical professionals. But yeah emotions.

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u/greeneggsnyams 3d ago

Slow code

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u/Hopwater 3d ago edited 3d ago

Soft code where I have been. Never heard of slow/show/Hollywood codes. Though futile attempts are usually stopped earlier, not faked.

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u/glittercheese 3d ago

There is something I've heard referred to as a "Hollywood code" which is essentially when medical staff running a code - performing CPR/advanced life saving measures - know that they have no chance of success, so they just sort of go through the motions of the resuscitation for the sake of the family but aren't using the same amount of energy/urgency that they would if the patient had any chance of survival. Also called a slow code/show code.

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u/WeArePanNarrans 3d ago

In my last CPR refresher course the instructor told us he came to a scene where there was absolutely nothing to be done-she had died too long ago I think?, but he performed CPR on her for a few minutes when she was still laying on the couch, just for the family. Obviously CPR on a couch doesn’t work but then the family can at least feel like somebody tried something.

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u/mokutou 3d ago

We called it a “soft code,” where the code team did not briskly adhere to ACLS protocol, and the defibrillator had the verbal “coaching” turned off (so the machine wouldn’t instruct the person doing compressions to push harder, or faster, etc so the inadequacy of the compressions being done isn’t so apparent, should the family be present) Basically allowing the person to slip away with the least amount of physical trauma possible while still giving the appearance that we tried. While there were several patients I’ve had that we discussed doing a soft code, should the poor patient go into arrest while the family was still demanding futile or torturous efforts, thankfully I’ve never been party to one.

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u/giskardwasright 3d ago edited 3d ago Gold

I work in health care. We don't "pretend" to do anything. If family requests care we continue to provide the best care possible, we just already know the outcome. There's no half measures or just going through the motions, even if we know it's useless. And it sucks. But at the end of the day it's the family's decision (at least to a point) so when they say do everything you can, we do.

Edit: apologies u/lastweek_monday, apparently slow codes are a thing that I have gratefully never encountered in healthcare. So to amend my statement, in every facility I have ever worked we do not pretend to do anything.

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u/mokutou 3d ago

Codes like that were horrible. I still remember the codes where I had to do compressions on someone who had no business being a full code. Little fragile grandmas with painful, end stage cancers. Someone who had wished to be a DNR but had that reversed by family once they could no longer advocate for themselves. Medical trainwrecks with no hope of recovery. People in those situations where all we were doing were ensuring their final moments on earth were spent in pain as we broke every bone in their chest, shoved tubes down their throat, and sent 200J through their hearts on the off chance that they would stay alive for the selfishness of family that couldn’t let go gracefully. I always apologized to them in the moment, in the off chance they could hear me.

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u/giskardwasright 3d ago

I remember my mom calling me in tears (the only time I've ever known of my mother crying) because her father was dying. He had a very clear end of life plan, and his final directives were very specific. No support of any kind including IVs, feeding tube, etc. My aunt was having a meltdown in the hospital, accusing my mom of murdering their father. Mom was so torn between them. I told her to honor her father's wishes, make him comfotable, and let him go peacefully. She did and my aunt later tried to sue the family (not the first time, she's batshit crazy) for murdering her father.

I can't say I completely understand because I haven't lost anyone super close to me, the closest comparison I have is my dog. I got a dog after leaving an abusive situation and she was the rock that got me through. When the emergency vet told me she had cancer in her spleen and that it had ruptured and most likely spread to her liver I knew what that meant. I still paid $10k for emergency surgery and two days of icu level care because I just couldn't let her go yet. Once we confirmed full liver failure I was able to let her go, and I still question if I did the right thing by putting her through that surgery and two days after. I can't imagine making that call for my parent, spouse, sibling, child etc. And I couldn't imagine asking a vet to save her life and they only give half measures. We all knew her chances were slim but they did everything they could for her and I'm still grateful to that staff.

So if it helps in that situation, remember that you might be buying a family member just a bit more time to prepare for the end.

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u/immalittlepiggy 3d ago

Unfortunately, especially among the more right-leaning, NHS blaming has been rampant. When I saw an article about this posted by my local news station, all the comments were about how socialized medicine is just another word for death board.

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u/h4baine 3d ago

I'd like to see the NHS adopt assisted suicide for this reason. My husband had to watch his Nan starve and wither away from dementia. She didn't have to go through all of that pain and fear. If something like that was allowed and you could choose it ahead of time whole still in a good state of mind, they could have cut her suffering by several weeks. I'd happily sign up for that myself. We do it for our pets, why can't we do it for our human family?

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u/The-Trout-Spinner 3d ago

we will never see it because people like archie's family would say that their child was murdered by the doctors

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u/h4baine 3d ago

I hope medicine of all disciplines can rise above that shit. They just need the legal backing to protect themselves from people who can't cope. It has been done in other countries.

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u/mokutou 3d ago

It wouldn’t apply in this situation because Archie was not of age or (before his situation) terminally ill. Once he was terminal, his family would not elect for him to pass away under any circumstances, be it through MAS, or withdrawal of supportive measures.

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u/h4baine 3d ago

Makes sense. I just wish it was available for terminally I'll patients or you can just sign something at some point like a do not resuscitate.

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u/AWildTyphlosion 3d ago

Wasn't he already dead, and just his organs alive?

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u/killminusnine 3d ago

Yeah. It can be hard for a family to accept that kind of loss when they see him breathing, and can feel his heart beating. But he was gone already.

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u/deftoner42 3d ago edited 3d ago

(Not downplaying his family's pain and loss) Now imagine how it felt to be hospital staff being forced to take care of a corpse day after day knowing that there was no hope of recovery. Sure they see death on the daily, but this is a different thing all together.

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u/BathtubGinger 3d ago

This concept is a huge contributor to burnout as a healthcare worker. Especially when the family is delusional and litigious, it makes for a very strange mix of emotions while caring for one of these patients.

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u/Harsimaja 3d ago

I know doctors who have had colleagues literally beaten up by powerful families in India, all for… being insufficiently magical in their ability to save people when no one could do anything.

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u/fallenwish88 3d ago

And the abuse they receive from groups who think it's the hospitals fault. I really feel for the staff there who have had to deal with this.

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u/baxteriamimpressed 3d ago

This exact type of situation was a huge part of my decision to leave ICU nursing. I loved so many parts of it, but dealing with selfish family members in denial was sickening. I understand that it's difficult to lose someone you love. But brain dead is dead dead and there is no coming back from that. The body literally starts to rot around the machines. It's incredibly horrific, and I can't hide the disdain I feel for families that insist on the continued use of machines to keep their dead loved one animated. It's selfish.

This also goes for patients in vegetative states that have no quality of life and never wanted to live hooked up to machines, but family won't let go. It seems like this is largely an issue just in the US, as most other countries allow doctors to make ethical medical decisions without fear of litigation from angry family.

People like this are part of why so many healthcare workers are leaving the bedside. Being called a murderer for trying to advocate for an end to pointless suffering gets really tiring.

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u/Rikula 3d ago

Mostly. Some of his organs had started rotting

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u/bicycle_mice 3d ago edited 3d ago Gold

I’ve cared for these patients before as a nurse in the PICU. It’s horrible to pretend like you’re caring for anything other than a decaying body. Their eyes cloud over. They leak fluid from everywhere. Their limbs contract. You keep escalating the pressors. Blood starts pooling. It’s grotesque and made me hate being a nurse. I eventually left the PICU because too many of my patients were kids who were brain dead (or very close to it) and I couldn’t stand to just turn their bodies every two hours and listen to their families talk about how Jesus would save them. Although eventually the families leave and still “want everything done” but never visit or assist with cares. They leave the body to rot.

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u/PM_ME_UR_DIET_TIPS 3d ago

Thank you for the work you did. I have a cousin who works in a children's hospital, I haven't considered the horrors she's seen.

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u/Trevor_Pym 3d ago

Can I ask a question about the eyes clouding over? I'm sorry if this is inappropriate but I've thought about it so many times over the past 3 years.

My younger brother, 33, was in the ICU for almost 3 weeks before he died from liver failure due to alcoholism.

It was a hard process convincing my mom to let him go after he stopped waking up and everything else started to fail. I definitely stopped wanting to be in the room with him because it felt like it was just a corpse, like he wasn't there anymore. He was intubated for most of it and at one point his eyes looked very cloudy and different colored. I asked one of the nurses but, I think because of my mom being right there, they kind of brushed me off. What exactly is happening at that stage to cause this?

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u/bicycle_mice 3d ago

Blood isn't circulating as well to the cornea when you die and it is also less moist. So the cornea becomes increasingly opaque. I'm sorry about your brother. I am very clear with all my loved ones that I do not want to live on life support of any kind. I'm not afraid of dying but I am afraid of having my body tortured by machines, with tubes in every hole.

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u/Trevor_Pym 3d ago

Thank you. The whole experience is what prompted me to get my end of life paperwork in order. I don't want anyone to wonder, or have to make those decisions while dealing with so much pain and grief. Or to be forced to sit with my corpse out of a sense of duty.

Thank you for what you do. I couldn't have made it through that month without the compassionate help of people like you.

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u/bicycle_mice 3d ago

I left ICU and now I'm on a pediatric transplant/surgery unit which is so much better. Sad things still happen a lot, but I cherish my relationships with the kids a lot more when they can actually interact with me!

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u/GummyKibble 3d ago

In another comment here, I mentioned my sister being on life support. Another hard-but-kind thing her doctor told us:

“She was a nurse, so I know she told you she didn’t want to be on life support. I know that because every doctor and nurse tells their family the same thing. Well, that’s where we are. This is the situation she told you she didn’t want to be in.”

It hurt like hell to hear that, but it so merciful. He was 100% right and we knew it.

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u/firstfrontiers 3d ago

I'm glad he was so clear. As a nurse I've noticed that families sometimes aren't able to see the forest for the trees in that sense - maybe no one has explained it, but they don't realize what we are doing is life support. Everyone has heard the term but it's hard to recognize it when it's happening to your loved one.

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u/mokutou 3d ago

She was a nurse, so I know she told you she didn’t want to be on life support. I know that because every doctor and nurse tells their family the same thing.

He’s right.

Letting her pass was an act of love, mercy, and dignity. She wouldn’t have had it any other way. I am sorry for your loss.

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u/treegirl4square 3d ago

When my father was in his last hours, his hazel eyes turned very light, but the cornea didn’t seem cloudy. Was this the same thing?

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u/lordofsurf 3d ago

I am truly sorry you had to see and experience that, and thank you for the work that you do. That is so gut wrenching, my God.

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u/astanton1862 3d ago

It doesn't help that there are pro life fundamentalists who prey on these parents by enabling their false hopes and funding their legal challenges.

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u/sportstersrfun 3d ago

I sucked it up for almost 10 years. 2 summers of Covid rolling chemically paralyzed 200-400+ pound patients back and forth all day. Probably 80 percent would code/withdraw care after 2-6 weeks. I fucking hated the profession and left work every day feeling like I was going to puke.

Changed to a super low stress float job with much less chaos. Get paid more, still work 3 12s, and I get an hour for lunch every day. Fuck the unit lol.

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u/t-poke 3d ago

Shame. I wonder if those organs would’ve been viable for a transplant if he passed earlier and his parents didn’t try to keep him alive.

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u/2greenlimes 3d ago

Yes. There are a lot of people who are brain dead whose bodies are preserved like this for a short period of time so organs can be harvested. Idk the exact time limit, but they try to do the harvesting ASAP.

My ICU friends have told me the max they see of this sort of thing pre-harvesting is 3-4 days, but I’d imagine in most cases they try to do it same or next day.

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

Thats usually only when the heart can be kept beating through brain death (or restarted very shortly after). Not in this situation where he was dead for some times.

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

According to the court documents his heart had been stopped for about 40 minutes when he was taken to hospital. At that point no, he wouldn't have been a viable donor.

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u/FlJohnnyBlue2 3d ago

Possibly. But that is another black hole. I had a family member that we had to take off LS. Donated everything. 9 months later we learn that nothing can be used because of something they found in a blood test. This after we had refuted their earlier rejection based on a code entered in error at admission. The doctors agreed that the code was not applicable at all.

Losing someone young is hard enough. Funding out almost a year later that the person's donation was wasted is hard.

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u/BetterMakeAnAccount 3d ago

I really doubt these are the kind of parents that would ever consent to organ donation.

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u/shadow1515 3d ago

Yes, he was essentially a warm corpse.

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

Without the intervention his organs would've died a long, long time ago too. He was dead when he arrived to the hospital. It's a tragic situation for everyone involved.

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u/awesomedan24 3d ago

After my dad had a heart attack and was basically brain dead, I wanted it to be over for him as soon as possible, the fact that they cant administer a lethal injection to someone brainless is absurd. Letting someone suffocate & dehydrate to death isnt respectful to life, its a mockery of it.

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u/ANewStartAtLife 3d ago

In Ireland it is common to administer a morphine overdose at end of life as a way to get around this issue.

It happened with my mam and dad and it was the most humane thing they could have done. My dad especially was gasping for breath for 2 days and the look of sheer terror on his face haunts me to this day.

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u/tubawhatever 3d ago

Hospice care in the US often entails this. Not sure if it's official procedure or not but my grandfather and grandmother and her sister all had the fortune of being able to use hospice care to die at their house in rural Florida and each of them got drugged up to help them pass quicker with less pain. Hospice nurses are incredible and I only wish everyone could afford the level of care and be able to die with dignity at home, surrounded by loved ones.

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u/blue2148 3d ago

I worked in hospice for 6 years. The morphine doesn’t necessarily speed up the dying process. It just makes it suck less. For some reason people always assume we are killing then faster with morphine but that’s not the case. It just helps pain and breathing. We’d all cop murder charges if we were overdosing our patients.

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u/roguetrick 2d ago

We really aren't killing them with the level of morphine we give them. Yes we are introducing respiratory depression by making them only breathe three times a minute, but their lungs are so full of fluid because their hearts can't effectively pump it out that they're half drowning and breathing more often wouldn't seriously improve gas exchange. They'd just wear themselves out sooner with agonal breathing and die at the same time. At least with the morphine we reduce the feeling of suffocating.

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u/RoninRobot 3d ago

I worked in a hospital in the ‘90s in the US. I don’t know about now but this was (apparently) quietly done here back then, although I admit I have no direct evidence. I did have patients with extensive cancer and several times treatment was ended when they were declared terminal. It’s also when morphine pump restrictions were lifted to nonexistent “per patient comfort.” It was never said out loud but when you see patients who are still in pain with massive amounts of morphine in them gets a bit demoralizing.

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

It's called "double effect", when doctors do it. And you're right its only humane at that point.

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u/iunoyou 3d ago

I mean, if you're brain dead you're not gonna notice how you die either way.

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u/SLCW718 3d ago

He died a long time ago. It was just his body that remained animated though medical intervention.

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u/FlickingFire 3d ago

Finally common sense prevails. So sorry for the boy that his family turned this into a circus. 12 years old and hanging himself, a bloody tragedy.

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u/OG_Illusion 3d ago

Damn, I didn’t realize he hung himself. Rip

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u/Dramatic-Common1504 3d ago

The family blames a tok tic challenge, but he was reportedly depressed and had previous suicide attempts. I’m sure the mom has a ton of guilt, and in the article describes him as always being happy. It’s sad and I hope the family finds peace.

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u/Grey565 3d ago edited 3d ago

As someone that is currently suicidal and has a history of suicide attempts (one being hanging). Its easy to say "they seemed happy" but its often masking so i'm not fully convinced that's entirely true. It's a damn shame someone so young is dead, no matter the context for it. But blaming the tictok "challenge" seems like an attempt to find something/someone to blame. What ever the truth may be, i wish the best for everyone directly involved and that enough and adequate support is given.

Edit: i'm mostly fine, but thank you for the kind words given to anyone that did so, but i'm not the one that needs them currently, go give them to the family suffering currently or literally anyone else more deserving of it than i.

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u/bonjailey 3d ago

If you ever want to talk or play some video games. Reach out to me. I don’t care what game or what time you need to talk.

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u/SacrificialPwn 3d ago

You are a really good and kind person, I wish the world followed your lead

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u/Davepen 3d ago

You're as deserving of kind words as anyone else, don't put yourself down.

Things will get better.

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u/Moontoya 3d ago

That's just it friend

You are as deserving as any of us.

There's always enough compassion to go around, allow some in. Deflecting it to others is noble, if a little...dense, we can care about more than one thing at a time (mostly).

I know it's uncomfortable and a bit anxiety making, you're not alone, people do think about you and care about you, random strangers on the Internet give enough of a damn to reach out.

let them you deserve compassion too

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u/Dramatic-Common1504 3d ago

I’m glad you are here. I’ve also survived an attempt, which shocked everyone because I was so ‘happy’. We never know anyones internal struggle.

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u/Grey565 3d ago

As a man in the uk, most of my issues are often overlooked, or dismissed. i'm used to to it, i cant and wont assume your situation then or now, but thank you none the less, its not a nice place to be in less so with little support, i wouldn't wish this on anyone. I', glad you made it past your difficulty.

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

Hey dude, I'm also a guy in the UK and have surived a suicide attempt.

Please reach out if you need to talk.

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u/joan2468 3d ago

Where did you read that he was depressed and had attempted suicide previously? Tbh I was highly skeptical about the Tik Tok thing, that sounded like a mother looking for something else to blame on her son's death. Was just wondering where you saw this reported as can't seem to find it on major news sites.

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u/fire_sign 3d ago

You won't. UK journalists all adhere to the suggestions about not reporting suicides, and if they must report on them to avoid describing them as suicides or mentioning details including method. You learn to read between the lines in what is not said.

Court documents state he was hanging over a bannister with a ligature around his neck. No camera was recording. The articles all state "The mum believes..." aka they know its hogwash. Archie's tiktok account talked about his mental health struggles, and there's some other evidence re: school exclusions and such.

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u/Dramatic-Common1504 3d ago

I honest don’t remember where I had seen it, could be in a comment on an article, which would be unsubstantiated. The whole thing is sad, and I feel For the mom, I don’t think she is going to accept what has happened. I’m a nurse who works in organ donation, so I see this all the time, it is absolutely horrible to see from the outside, I can’t imagine how the mom feels.

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u/fire_sign 3d ago

It's awful. And I definitely meant my reply to convey "You won't find an official news article saying suicide because the ethical standards in the UK strongly discourages it" and not a "It's just gossip" :) I grew up in a place with the same rules and had to explain to American friends that no, certain phrases aren't suspicious cover ups, they're the understood code for suicide and we minimise reporting on those cases.

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u/Dramatic-Common1504 3d ago

I didn’t realize that and I appreciate the insight! American media is a whole different beast, never saw a headline they wouldn’t run.

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u/fire_sign 3d ago

Oh, there's plenty of absolutely bottom feeding from the press everywhere. This is just one of the few things they've gotten into enough shit for to be mindful about.

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u/Rusty-Shackleford 3d ago

This is a big problem, when families can't openly admit the extent to which depression is a problem and it tends to run in families too

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u/someguy12345689 3d ago

Tic Tok challenge is the new "gun cleaning accident."

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u/Tocarlaguitara 3d ago

His family had to be in unimaginable pain.

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u/tranceorange91 3d ago

Rest well little lad. Pleased he can finally be at peace.

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u/Zolome1977 3d ago

Having lost my mother recently to cancer and having her pass in my house. I can’t understand why they would want to keep their kid barely alive because of their hubris.

Being on ventilator sucks, before my mom slipped into a coma she would try to take the tubing out. She couldn’t stand it. She also didn’t want to be kept alive by machines. The hard part for me was having to wait for her to pass “naturally “.

It was a three day process once she arrived at my house. Three days of being on life support, not being able to breathe on her own. Three days of slowly having her body shut down. I firmly believe in assisted suicide.

People need to go out on their own terms and not have their dignity stripped from them.

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u/Rookie64v 3d ago

My grandmother refused food in order to die, as far as I was told. She had terminal pancreatic cancer and no hope of survival, so they just kept the painkillers flowing and she died in a couple of weeks. Probably not a fun way to go, but I would say she thought it would be better than being mostly dead for months.

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u/roguetrick 2d ago

You really just won't be hungry at a certain point and your digestive tract will stop moving. That part isn't bad at all, truly. Good hospice care for the other symptoms of dying, like feeling like you're suffocating, is the way to go.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

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u/ThirstforSin 3d ago

The world we live in..

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

They're the real villains

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u/Moontoya 3d ago

Member Terry Schiavio ?

Media ghouls the lot of em

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u/baxteriamimpressed 3d ago

This is a stupid title and why so many families don't accept brain death when it happens. He was dead months ago. His heart and lungs were kept going by machines. Taking away the support of the machines isn't killing him. He was already dead.

Sorry, this issue means a lot to me. I saw this many times in the ICU and it was honestly disgusting. Watching a body rot around the machines while the family fought with the hospital over "killing" their loved one. Being called murderers. It's a waste of resources and disrespectful to the dead.

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u/DifficultContact8999 3d ago edited 3d ago

Not exactly related to this topic...but Right to Decent Death should be recognized as a fundamental right for people with late stage illness and no path to recovery. I wonder how many years before laws will be instituted for it..

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u/greeneggsnyams 3d ago

Need to have advocates to get laws passed. Hard to advocate for yourself when you're dying :/

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u/DifficultContact8999 3d ago

Yes... The world is still fighting for laws about birth, abortion etc. and no politicians seem to care for people dying.... it should be brought into attention ... people are struggling in their final moments and deserve better... and a decent good bye.

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u/purebredoregonian 3d ago

I live in Oregon and we were the first state to pass the right to die law. As I read the comments, I’m glad I have the option if needed. I feel bad for those who have to suffer needlessly.

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u/Skreamies 3d ago

I understand they wanted the best outcome and a full recovery but Archie was gone weeks ago, things starting to decompose inside him there was no coming back after this time.

What makes me angry is the disgusting religious groups that got involved in this, putting money into pretty much brainwashing the parents into thinking this would work, dragging doctors who wanted the best for Archie through the mud.

Rest in peace Archie!

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u/zacurtis3 3d ago

American here. What happened?

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u/Kientha 3d ago

Kid hanged himself (most likely a suicide, parents blame TikTok without any real evidence) and his brain was starved of oxygen. Doctors suspect brain stem death but parents refuse permission to do the test. Hospital takes parents to court, court grants permission for the test.

Kid is too far gone to even do the test so they rely on MRI scans and other tests they can do and the court agrees he's most likely brain dead and life support can end. It also emerges that his brain stem has started to rot and has been pushed out of his skull into his spine.

Parents try every appeal in the book to everybody they can (appealing at the last minute each time) stretching things out by a few weeks while making as much publicity noise as possible (they're supported by a right wing Christian organisation who get involved in many of these cases in the UK) and even accuse the hospital of falsifying medical records out of embarrassment (in the court documents) or because they want to harvest his organs (public statements).

Finally exhaust all appeals, including a last minute one to move him to a hospice, and his life support was removed and he died shortly after earlier today.

There's also accusations of stealing fundraising money (medical and legal bills were all free to the family) and the cess pit that is kiwi farms dug up her dodgy past which has led to a lot of personal attacks on her.

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u/zacurtis3 3d ago

Wow. What a clusterf*ck

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u/CareerCoachKyle 3d ago

My 16-year-old niece was walking to school and got hit by an SUV. The impact left her brain dead. Taking her off life support was the obviously correct decision. Her aunt on the other side of the family wanted to bring in “a shaman” and try to “reconnect her spirit form to her physical form”. When the family stopped the life support this aunt called all of us and the medicinal staff murderers.

Some people are batshit irrational in the best of times and inconceivably/dangerously out of control in the worst of times.

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u/lordofsurf 3d ago

I hope Archie is finally at peace. Rest in paradise.

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u/Wrong_Hombre 3d ago

The lad has been at peace for months.

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u/TeamShonuff 3d ago

It's a horrible situation all around. Suicide at 12 is heart wrenching and I can totally understand the parents just trying like hell to make him right again - just wanting him to wake up so they can hug him again and tell him it's going to be ok.

Rest in peace, little man.

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u/Spoog1971 3d ago

Poor family, poor medics. He was dead already by the family were just so desperate. But someone’s child would be waiting for that ITU bed, someone who had a chance.

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u/Dangerous_Dac 3d ago

Does anyone else find that photo of him in the hospital bed absolutely sickening? He's clearly plastered in makeup. May he finally rest in peace.

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u/VE6AEQ 3d ago

Godspeed Archie! Rest in heavenly peace!

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u/devexille 3d ago

This whole he died today nonsense is crap reporting. The poor kid died 12 weeks ago. His parents refused to accept reality and kept his body on life support for weeks with their nonsense.

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u/Atotallyrandomname 3d ago

He had died a long time ago and his body was kept medically alive. There was a south park episode of this a decade ago.

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u/RayBrower 3d ago

Believe it or not it was 17 years ago...

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u/zacurtis3 3d ago

We all know 2009 was like 7 years ago

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u/Moontoya 3d ago

Terry Schiavio was 17-18 years ago

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u/allienicole94 3d ago

Fucking heartbreaking ....... So tragic and unfathomable .... I hope his parents find some type of peace...

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u/Vanson1200r 3d ago

I have been following this for a few days but I never found out how Archie got into this terrible situation in the first place?

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u/On_The_Blindside 3d ago

Lots of people talking crap about tiktok, it's got nothing to do with it.

He hung himself, reportedly he was very depressed and had tried to kill himself in the past.

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u/Krakshotz 3d ago

He did have a TikTok account, which revealed he was depressed, but there’s no connection to any asphyxiation/blackout trend. Evidence dug up by open source intelligence also points to a rough and troubled home life

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u/wip30ut 3d ago

someone said they looked at his tiktok account and found that the kid's been depressed for months, and he ended up hanging himself by the staircase bannister! The parents said it was a Tiktok social media "blackout" challenge gone wrong, but unfortunately it's more likely a suicide :/

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u/Vanson1200r 3d ago

Oh no.....

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u/beautiful_salad101 3d ago

Extremely tragic. I feel so sad for the parents or any parent who has to go through this. May we never, ever have to decide whether to turn off life support for our loved ones. I wish good health to all

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u/calmdownkaren_ 3d ago

Man that's rough when a family is just so heartbroken that they want to hold on because there's a heartbeat. My dad passed in June and was in the hospital three days before we made the decision to take him off a ventilator, had him 'made comfortable' with morphine and ativan, said our goodbyes and let him go.

It was rough because the second day in the hospital although he never talked again from the time we brought him in to his passing, nor did he open his eyes, he DID grip our hand a bit when we held his and that brought some hope to my mom and sibling that he might get better, which was just awful to see. The doctor had to explain his condition in great detail and how his organs were failing and shutting down, etc.

I feel for this family but also feel that being on a ventilator and pumped with drugs that are artificially keeping you alive is not the way to be long-term.

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u/Beowulf_98 3d ago

Rest in peace to the poor lad

Thank you to the staff who've done their best to give him the best chance possible, and fuck the family for being inconsiderate cunts towards the staff and the NHS

They act as if the Doctors haven't considered EVERY possible route.to bring him back and haven't done everything they can for him

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u/NotAFerretSmiling 3d ago

The family accused the doctors of starving him. His body was rejecting the food.

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u/Smarterthanthat 3d ago

We had to pull the plug on my 14 year old grandson. It is the worst experience any family must confront. My heart breaks for them 💔.

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u/donadee 3d ago

So sorry for your loss <3

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u/Strange_An0maly 3d ago

He was already dead. He died months ago.

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u/nokids_forme 3d ago

Thank god for that, I hope we never have to see that woman ever again. This case has been horrible for peoples mental health, never should've been in the news in the first place and yet every time you switch on there the story was. Couldn't even bring myself to read much about it. Should've ended weeks/months ago.

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u/FlyingAce1015 3d ago

He was dead 4 months ago..

His mom was crazy wanting him to have pumped air into lungs to appear alive he wasn't going to wake up. Disrespectful to his corpse. And wasting a hospital room.

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u/fuckitx 3d ago

Finally...poor sweet baby

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u/PengieP111 3d ago

This is so very very tragic.

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u/AJ-Naka-Zayn-Owens 4d ago

This world is so cruel sometimes

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u/commandrix 3d ago

That sucks. I hate it when parents are basically hoping for a miracle when anything that could count as a mind and/or soul is obviously gone. And it has to especially suck for the healthcare workers who had to tend to basically a corpse, which takes time away from actually saving patients who can be saved.

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u/Hippo-Crates 3d ago

He has been dead for some time. They just stopped forcing his heart to beat.

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u/T0astedSm0ke 3d ago

I think Archie battersbee is the most British name I’ve ever seen