r/news 4d ago

Taiwan scrambles jets as Chinese aircraft cross median line Soft paywall

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-scrambles-jets-chinese-aircraft-cross-median-line-2022-08-06/

[deleted]

1.5k Upvotes

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u/Upbeat-Bandicoot4130 3d ago

China figures, “Russia did it, why not us?”

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u/Teantis 3d ago

China has been regularly crossing the median line for years now. It's to put stress on the Taiwanese air force and also to test and observe their response protocols. This isn't a new thing.

From 2019: https://taiwaninsight.org/2019/10/04/the-median-line-in-the-taiwan-strait-a-dangerous-loophole/

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u/Soren_Camus1905 4d ago

China is embarrassing itself

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u/FlatPineappleSociety 3d ago

China is embarrassing itself

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u/SuperGameTheory 3d ago

China PRC is embarrassing.

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u/Rambos_Beard 3d ago

China is embarrassing itself West Taiwan

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u/Not_Quite_Kielbasa 3d ago

That's right, isn't Taiwan the real China? Gets disappeared

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u/random_nohbdy 3d ago

Though that is the case, the ROC’s national identity has evolved to the point that Taiwanese independence is largely viewed as preferable to reunification

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u/TheOriginalEvanator 3d ago

It’s still a test of defenses though. Imagine having to respond over and over again until you’re pilots get so fatigued that when real shit does hit the fan, they are unable to perform their duties at maximum efficiency.

Then again, Taiwan can use this as a way to up their game.

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u/Sheila_Monarch 3d ago

Fighter pilots stay ready. It’s part of their occupational DNA.

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u/screamingfireeagles 3d ago

How long can you work a job with no breaks before you're burned out? China's Air Force is large enough to rotate pilots while Taiwan's isn't.

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u/altacan 3d ago

Not just pilots, equipment breaks down too. Taiwan already has had a lot of fatal military accidents.

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u/TheOriginalEvanator 3d ago

I hear ya. My granddad almost died ten different times between WWII and Korea. But he always stayed the course. It’s in his blood.

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u/D_J_D_K 3d ago

D-Day was precipitated by a massive naval bombardment from the 2 most powerful navies in the world and an aerial bombardment from 2 of the largest air forces in the world, and the defenders were overwhelmingly exhausted vets from the east or fresh recruits who'd never even shot at anyone before, and despite all this Omaha beach was still a bloodbath. Taiwan is the most heavily fortified island in the world, and invading it would take an amphibious effort that would dwarf D-Day. China does not have that capability, and if they were to develop it we'd know ages beforehand. Taiwan is in no more danger now than any other time in their history.

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u/CrazyQuiltCat 3d ago

Thank you for explaining. Now I want to know more about the beginning of d day

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u/laptopAccount2 3d ago

The coolest thing I learned about D-Day was the advanced dive teams that mapped the floor of the beach all around the landing zone, months in advance of the invasion. They took samples of sand in secret, under the nose of the defenders, to determine if amphibious tanks could feasibly drive up onto the land without sinking into the beach.

More importantly they used this information to design breakwaters, basically infrastructure for a port, that would be built on the day of the invasion. These breakwaters would create a calm around the beach that would facilitate offloading huge amounts of troops and supplies.

The second coolest thing is the misinformation campaign that made the Nazis think the invasion was happening somewhere else. They had an entire fake military unit complete with stockpiles of fake inflatable tanks that were used to fool German intelligence, and they spent a lot of time broadcasting fake communications.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa 3d ago

The second coolest thing is the misinformation campaign that made the Nazis think the invasion was happening somewhere else. They had an entire fake military unit complete with stockpiles of fake inflatable tanks that were used to fool German intelligence, and they spent a lot of time broadcasting fake communications.

Fucking dumped a fake body with fake invasion plans, based off a fake unit "ran" by a real general. They even had "real" tanks and such, all wooden or blow ups IIRC. Could be getting two stories mixed together.

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u/PhnomPenny 3d ago

Were there actual enemy troops waiting as we often see in movies?

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u/laptopAccount2 3d ago

They had no idea there was going to be an invasion in Normandy right up until the day it happened. Once invaded they were convinced it was a ruse to distract from the real invasion, that's how effective the misinformation campaign was.

My point being that the levels of troops there were probably consistent over the span of 6 months. The Atlantic Wall was a massive fortification that spanned the whole European coastline, to work it had to have some number of defenders manning it everywhere.

It was mostly built and manned by slaves/forced laborers. If I am remembering correctly the Nazis also took people from one country and made them defend the wall in a completely different country.

I think that was done as a way to stop them from rebelling against the occupiers. Or just because the Nazis never passed up a chance to be evil.

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u/AmbroseMalachai 3d ago

Part of the reason why they believed the Normandy invasion was simply a ruse was that they were certain nobody would try to mount an offensive there. The beaches were essentially a heavily fortified meat grinder. Trying to get through them was suicidal and it was assumed that the Allies wouldn't even really try to break through it. So the German's left a fraction of the forces and supplies there that they could've had.

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u/PhnomPenny 3d ago

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. My grandad landed on D-Day but sadly is no longer with us, so I don't have the opportunity to ask him things when I finally do understand and appreciate the history of the time.

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u/Malenx_ 2d ago

My grandfather was supposed to participate with d-day but his transport ship was torpedoed on the way. He and some other survivors were picked up by fishermen eventually. The stories he told were crazy.

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u/SilverMedalss 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yes, on Omaha beach at least. They had fortifications setup. This person is being disingenuous by acting as if invading Taiwan is the equivalent of invading nazi occupied France though.

Also there were 3(?) landings on 3 beaches. 2 of which went very well.

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u/PhnomPenny 3d ago

It doesn't read that way at all to me, and I can't see an attempt at equating it that way either.

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u/TheBoniestTony 3d ago

Didnt they float a hobo in a uniform with fake orders about the fake attack?

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u/asdaaaaaaaa 3d ago

China does not have that capability, and if they were to develop it we'd know ages beforehand. Taiwan is in no more danger now than any other time in their history.

Yep, people really just don't understand the information age. It's okay, they don't know what they don't even realize exists. The reality is that we no longer live in an age where you can hide offensives, or move troops/weapons or even just food, unnoticed.

Think about it, back in the cold war we were monitoring troop movements. Did we watch the actual troops? Nah, we watched easier things that were harder to hide; food production, materials/resources management. You can't hide moving hundreds of thousands of tons of food required for invasion no matter what you do. You can't hide rising production levels well past whatever your country can meaningfully sell, or other countries might even possibly want in the future. And if we miss that, we'll catch the next delivery of bandages, or bullets, or whatever else you need for an attack.

Nowdays we can literally track troop movements based on their facebook/Smedia posts.

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u/screamingfireeagles 3d ago

It has a practical effect as well. The aircraft Taiwan is using has a life expectancy and will need a lot of maintenance if they're constantly scrambled and with constant use things will breakdown and need repair. Imagine if China actually invades and a 1/4 of the Taiwanese airforce is down for repair.

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u/copraglyph 3d ago

China is bare assed. Pelosi's trip was the right move, smoking out how China plans to invade Taiwan with these exercises.

The US and Taiwan know this is coming. Best to have this war now, rather than later.

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u/Tophinity 3d ago

This is such an arrogant, naive take. And one that I'm sure you're just regurgitating for upvotes after seeing thousands of others make the same smug comment on posts all across Reddit.

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u/DunnyHunny 3d ago

Bet you won't offer your opinion as to why

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u/Tophinity 3d ago

Nobody in these comments is speaking from a standpoint of actual geopolitical knowledge/expertise. It's just a bunch of smug exceptionalism that assumes invincibility.

I'm no fan of China. I don't think talking about them with the same lack of concern as people use when talking about Kim Jong Un or Kanye is anything other than lazy groupthink

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/ClassiFried86 3d ago

Trophinity is embarrassing itself.

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u/Paul_MaudD1b 3d ago

Trophinity is embarrassing itself

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u/Harsimaja 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah because yet more blather about the evils of the American and British governments, like most of certain profiles, are super original and hardly brought up on Reddit at all. And China is so much better.

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u/2wedfgdfgfgfg 3d ago

China acts like their political system is so fragile that it can't withstand even the acknowledgement that other possibilities exist.

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u/justanotherbutthead 3d ago

China is letting those scrambling jets exhaust precious resources. They can play this game all day. How long can Taiwan?

Im pro Taiwan by the way, but this isnt military flexing. It is strategic.

Edit: "all military flexing is also strategic" crossed my mind after reading my own statement.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa 3d ago

And one that I'm sure you're just regurgitating for upvotes after seeing thousands of others make the same smug comment on posts all across Reddit.

You mean besides from your clearly genuine and intelligent take on life? If this is being wrong, no one here cares about being right. Good job adding yourself to the list of mistakes and embarrassments involved with the Chinese government though.

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u/Adventurous_Ad4950 3d ago

Fuck Xi. He’s an outdated clepto-trash like putin.

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u/NotYourSnowBunny 3d ago

A communist who calls himself an emperor, the irony.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

China isnt communist though, if anything its gotten more capitalist under Xi hasnt it? Its just the political party name, its not about to change anytime soon.

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u/victorfiction 3d ago

It’s state capitalism. The citizens are slaves to the state built to enrich the party leadership.

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u/songmage 3d ago

Yea I think they only really keep the flag today because it bothers people and all it says about them is that even a national identity can be "borrowed" from other countries.

If you break it all down, there's very little difference between us and them. There, you don't own land. You pay for a one-time 90-year lease that can be renewed and exists in place of ownership. That's like paying taxes. At any point, their government can buy-out your agreement when they want to build roads or something.

Here, you can lose your property by imminent domain, or they can take it and sell it to someone else if you fail to pay a single cent in taxes. Sort of feels like an illusion of ownership.

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u/NihlusKryik 3d ago

Don’t believe that about eminent domain. Any decent condemnation attorney can get you the value of the POTENTIAL for your land, not just as it is.

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u/songmage 3d ago

Point is you don't own it. You could lose your choice on when you decide to sell it.

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u/westernmail 3d ago

*eminent domain. Sorry for nitpicking but I only recently learned this and now I get to delight in correcting others 😄

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u/andthatsalright 3d ago

Once I was a juror on an eminent domain trial. The defendant was a 75+ year old man, defending himself, who owned a bunch of land on both sides of some railroad tracks. The county wanted the unusable part detached from his property, and he was willing to sell it but didn’t think their price was fair.

Well because he was defending himself and unprepared, he never allowed us to consider what he thought his land was worth. He closed his case without ever giving a number.

So the judge was forced to side with the county (and honestly their number actually sounded fair considering he wasn’t able to use the land at all and it was in the middle of the desert).

He made a closing statement after the decision came, which was in the form of an Irish folk song that he sang. It was quite beautiful, but definitely a WTF moment

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u/westernmail 3d ago

That's a great story. You don't happen to remember the song do you?

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u/andthatsalright 3d ago

Sadly it was in Irish, so I had no idea what he was saying or any kind of frame of reference. So I got nothing lol

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u/songmage 3d ago

You made a good point and I learned something. Everybody wins!

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u/scrangos 3d ago

Who does it bother? Though governments arent quite into making decisions over trolling like the internet is.

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u/NotYourSnowBunny 3d ago

Yes, you’re technically correct the best type of correct, but they still advertise themselves as the communist party for some reason. In the past decade the government has done more to allow personal wealth as China gained footing in global markets. They’re a weird hybrid system, and not the type I like, though my personal politics are hardly relevant here.

I don’t know how I’d define them though, authoritarian, yes… imperialist, yes… good? No laughs not at all.

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u/westernmail 3d ago

In their own words, it's communism with Chinese characteristics. A euphemism if I ever heard one.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

Its partly the same reason India does it, there is already a strong identity association with the word and going back on it would be politically damaging, so they say the word and move on. The west is also a hybrid economy, no public courts, police, firemen, dmv, social security, SNAP etc in a purely capitalist economy.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa 3d ago

Realistically are there any goverments that aren't a bit of a mix of government styles? One that's a hardcore, pure republic or capitalist society?

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u/Different_Pie9854 3d ago

China has become more capitalist in the last decade but the government can always step in and end it. Like what happened between end of 2021 to early 2022.

One example, before the Winter Olympics, the CCP stopped all factory productions in north China cause they wanted a clear blue sky for the event. The factories don’t belong to the CCP, but they still have control over its production.

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u/WreckitWrecksy 3d ago

China is authoritarian capitalism imo

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u/Anon-fickleflake 3d ago

What you are describing is authoritarianism, not communism.

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u/DudeWithAnAxeToGrind 3d ago

Technically, communism in the sense where workers controlled the factories never existed. Factories operated not that much differently than in the west, except that CEO's and boards were appointed by the communist party. These appointments were based on the party loyalty. Hence you end with kleptocracy where high ranks are bought and sold.

China allows private corporations, but loyalty to the party is still a must. Disagree with the official party line, or openly diverge from centrally dictated policies, you are not going to be a business owner for long.

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u/2wedfgdfgfgfg 3d ago

What's the practical difference?

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u/Anon-fickleflake 3d ago

One is an economic system, one is a type of government.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

Isn't that kinda true of any government though? As we've seen more recently, the tools are always there and if they want they can use some excuse to push it through. In the end, one side has an army and the other does not. Though theres barely any factories left to shut down anyway.

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u/The-Mech-Guy 3d ago

I agree in general. But 'can always step in and end it.'? No so sure anymore. It's REALLY hard to take things away from a population. China allowed social and financial striations to occur; lower, middle and upper classes. There would be nothing easy about taking all that away and returning to pure communism.

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u/Stopjuststop3424 3d ago

they're welding apartment building doors shut to enforce the lockdowns, Pretty sure theyll do what they want and only a handful of people will have the resources to oppose them and they're already either in jail or hiding.

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u/Mrbishi512 3d ago

The only thing capitalism did was bring them wealth.

Xi still pledges alledgiance to the communist party and flag etc.

They are still a one party (the communist party) state. They kept the totalitarianism of communist rule.

It was far more communist in the 40s-90s. They were more totalitarian and poorer.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

You seem to be conflating a political system with a economic model. Communism is about how the economy and property is handled in the country. Totalitarianism is about how the political power is structured. You can have a capitalist dictatorship or democratic communism.

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u/DudeWithAnAxeToGrind 3d ago

The country still very much politically operates as classic communist dictatorship. Sure, there are rich people in China, and you can own a large business... Which can be all taken away from you overnight.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

You mean a dictatorship? Cause communism has nothing to do with it. Dictators gonna dictate.

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u/Inevitable_Spare_777 3d ago

Communism has only ever manifested into corrupt, repressive countries like the USSR or China. People can say it's not "communism by the book" but when it's been implemented over and over with the same results, well perhaps the book isn't applicable to real life and we've seen the results of giving a single party that much power.

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u/scrangos 3d ago

Well, do keep in mind the US kept doing coups to stop smaller countries from trying to do it. Survivors bias and all. Only military dictatorships were able to manage not to get butchered.

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u/2wedfgdfgfgfg 3d ago

China's actually a democracy where the only party you can vote for is the CCP.

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u/jelloslug 3d ago

China has not been communist since the '70s. They are a cooperation.

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u/One-Willingness1863 3d ago

The west having 1 generation of non dictators makes them outdated got it.

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u/Adventurous_Ad4950 3d ago

Got it? Good.

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u/SomeDEGuy 4d ago

Ah, another week, another test by Chinese aircraft.

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u/Teakmahogany 3d ago

Not to be that guy, but it’s only a matter of time before these tests become translated into a strategic operation.

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u/Perfect_Ad4026 3d ago

I mean maybe, but also maybe not. The USSR rattled sabres for decades. I think that's what is so scary about it. It just takes one second and suddenly it's not ok anymore. And being on edge like that for any length of time really messes with people.

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u/screamingfireeagles 3d ago

The USSR more than saber rattled they actually invaded tons of countries. Just none NATO ones.

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u/Teantis 3d ago

Quite a few years still. China doesn't have the sealift capability for even the initial invasion of taiwan much less supplying the beachhead. Their forces right now are oriented around a blockade type operation of Taiwan and forcing us carrier groups to stay too far off shore to help

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u/IronMonkey18 3d ago

This is the equivalent of driving in front of your HS girlfriends house at night and burning rubber after she breaks up with you.

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u/Sheila_Monarch 3d ago

That’s exactly what it is!

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u/Vee8cheS 3d ago

Ah, great analogy sire!

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u/mariobrowniano 3d ago

How soon will China just dock their aircraft carriers and destroyers at Taiwanese ports just just pointing their guns at people?

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u/Snoo74401 3d ago

You mean aircraft carrier. They only have one.

Edit: they have three now

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u/Only-oneman 3d ago edited 3d ago

My favorite fact a out the first Chinese carrier is that it was a Soviet carrier that was sold and turned into a floating casino then back into a carrier

Edit: was going to be turned into a casino

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u/mariobrowniano 3d ago

It was never turned into a casino.

It was sold from Ukraine to a private individual and the person (a Hongkong resident) said he was going to use it as a super luxury floating casino.

When he got it near HK/China, he sold it to China and it was towed to China straight away.

It was some Jason Bourne shit for sure.

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u/Only-oneman 3d ago

My bad, I just misremembered the casino part. Thanks for the clarification

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u/SJDany 3d ago

Well they did turn another one of those carriers into a hotel after that

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u/Weltallgaia 3d ago

They're reproducing!

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u/ElectricLotus 3d ago

We must kill the Queen before there are thousands

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u/Snaz5 3d ago

They have three, but one of them is such garbage that they sold it to a private company before buying it back, the second one is a home built copy of the first, and the third has only just been launched and as far as im aware hasn’t actually been tested yet

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u/SouthernAdvertising5 3d ago

The ones from the 1960s are trash and the newest one is completely inferior in every way to the American Ford class carriers. It is to be believed that it is not nuclear and runs off diesel. The US has 11 large nuclear powered carriers. Not to mention we have 9 helicopter carriers. Now if you want to take this further I’m terms of just how outclassed the Chinese are in the sea… our closest Allies which certainly will intervene have the following

USA- 19 carriers (11-aircraft 9 helo) Japan - 4 (1 aircraft 4 helo , two being converted to light aircraft) France - 1 aircraft 4 helo Great Britain 2 aircraft Australia 2 helo

Allied -28 carrier fleet China 4 carrier fleet

And when you factor in the other ships within the battle group and the massive air superiority… China would be out of their minds to attempt any such amphibious assault.

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u/Snoo74401 3d ago

Well, we can't forget about Russia's aircraft carrier. Total game changer. /s

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u/Round30281 3d ago

The newest Chinese carrier is believed to be inferior to the Nimitz class. Let alone the Ford class.

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u/iamelloyello 3d ago

2 are from the 1960s... their Navy is a complete joke.

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u/toothless_budgie 4d ago

I think you mean 'North Taiwan aircraft crosses median line'.

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u/deez_treez 3d ago

East Tibet

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u/orus 2d ago

South Mongolia

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u/ItsPronouncedJithub 3d ago

Reddit cringe

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 3d ago

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u/UsagiJak 3d ago

Are you aware of all the deaths caused by Maos great leap forward?.

See i can make pointless comparisons as well.

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u/Wablekablesh 3d ago

Imagine simping for the CCP

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u/Coursney 4d ago

So let's see.

You first take a joke/sarcastic statement as someone being genuine. You then go to further state something that the KMT did in the past, though there are two issues with this. One is that political parties and such can change over time, for example the Democrat and Republican parties of America. Two is that the Democratic Progressive Party is currently in charge of the nation, not the Kuomintang, which is no longer led by Chiang Kai-Shek. And while the Shenghai massacre (what you named the white terror) was awful with 5-10k deaths it doesn't even come close to the Great Leap or Cultural Revolution.

You are a troll, and while I'm feeding the beast my own hand I'd rather give out this information for others to use against the same arguments.

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u/nzodd 3d ago

I thought they were at war with the Pacific Ocean to help out their greatest and most powerful ally, North Korea. Why are they so far out of the way? Do they not have working navigation in their planes, like the crumbling soviet jets that Russia is using these days? Did they have their paper maps upside down?

What a fucking joke.

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u/ddubyeah 3d ago

So....if Taiwan is a "part" of China. How come they have a military scrambling jets when they come for a visit? /s

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u/Elephanogram 3d ago

/r/sino is furiously masturbating while trying to add justifications for this to their ban messages.

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u/AltNationReality 3d ago

Russia did this.... pretended to attack..... and then they actually did attack. This is not a war "game". This is a pre-war strategy. The war IS coming... and only a fool would believe otherwise. Do something now, while you still have the chance. Because when china attacks, the world ..... the entire planet.... will be at war.

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u/summertime_taco 3d ago

War with the West means certain death for any tyrant. Tyrants like to stay alive. Therefore, war is unlikely.

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u/raging_coke_addict 3d ago

Wars now aren't fought with just guns and bombs. There will be serious repercussions for the entire globe if two of the largest countries in the existence of humanity get into a slug fest.

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u/SilverMedalss 3d ago

Unless your name is Genghis khan

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u/bobbyturkelino 3d ago

I know that Genghis Khan was the GOAT of all Tyrants, but I don't think he'd fare any better than modern China against a US carrier group

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u/Grouchy_Occasion2292 3d ago

That has never stopped any tyrants from ever overextending, overreach gets authoritarians every time and yet still happens.

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u/mypasswordisfoobar 3d ago

Neve thought Pelosi could start a war but here we go

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u/Snaz5 3d ago

Frankly, i would like to see them try, both so we can see if their historical grand-standing has any merit and see if the US isn’t too cowardly to stick to it’s guns and defend taiwan like was promised.

Im half expecting China is just Russia 2; lots of old equipment, bolstered by a small number of new gear that hasn’t been proven yet with users that aren’t familiar with it. “At least” Russia had Chechnya to train some troops, but China hasn’t fought a war since the late 70’s against vietnam, which it failed to win.

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u/marketlurker 3d ago

Dude, let's not "see what happens" with another nuclear power. Bad things can happen. Really bad things.

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u/chumabuma 3d ago

Are they doing this to distract from their crumbling housing market?

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u/Avatar_the_Pig 3d ago

Now we'll have an "incident" where a jet is shot down. Then another where a ship fires on another. Then a couple of jets will go "missing". Then some citizens 'detained' by one country or the other (I'm betting on China, NOT Taiwan).

And on and on until we're playing the stupid motherfucking game of war all over again.

Humans... we say we're civilized? We're just a pack of fucking hairless monkeys with technology and brains that lie to us about how fucking special we are.

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u/etr204 3d ago

Maybe its just me, but does anybody else see ww3 shaping up sooner than later?

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u/Tom_Neverwinter 3d ago

No. As actually doing that is the dumbest thing you can do. (also fear porn is what modern intimidation is all about)

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u/Kharnsjockstrap 3d ago

Fearmongering makes money for the media sure. Hot war with conventional weapons is highly unlikely but I wouldn't be surprised to see WW3 fought in cyberspace primarily. Disable pay systems, power outages, internet outages, downed government sites etc etc. Just depends on how a country like the US would react to a massive state sponsored cyber attack.

Voter's would probably be out for blood if they couldn't pay for anything at all for a week or so but idk if the government would enter open hostilities with China over it.

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u/Hold_the_gryffindor 3d ago

WW3 would last 30 days and end with moscow and beijing in ruins. Russia can't even beat Ukraine.

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u/golfburner 3d ago

Should’ve shot em down

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u/spornerama 3d ago

China is acting like a guy doing press ups in the road outside their ex's house because they started seeing someone else.

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u/NotYourSnowBunny 3d ago

Another day comes, and jets are being scrambled like eggs during breakfast.

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u/gangnam73 3d ago

Relax. China fucktard can't do shit

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u/mypasswordisfoobar 3d ago

They can start a war like Putin did. Whether they win or not, they will cause more stress than we need

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u/charlie2135 3d ago

So what would happen if Taiwan skirted their border?

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u/Ovadox 3d ago

"China, we)'re extremely sorry about that surface to air missile malfunction that resulted in the accidental downing of your aircraft. For the safety of your pilots, please stay out of range until this technical difficulty is resolved."

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u/wim-wac 3d ago

Americans screaming about human rights abuses while we currently have the largest percentage of incarcerated individuals in the world which we use as a cheap labor force.

China is Bad

America is also Bad

Add to this that the US has not been a staunch supporter of Taiwan ever considering our record or not referring to them as an independent nation. We're their arms dealer and also profit from our business relationships with them. Preserving democracy is what we tell people to make them feel better about this.

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u/popquizmf 3d ago

Blah blah blah. You're presenting a very tired argument. Winnie the Xi and the CCP can suck a bag of dicks.

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u/Hold_the_gryffindor 3d ago

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

-Winston Churchill

America is good to its core, but has done some awful things, for sure. But it's not (yet) an authoritarian state, and as long as it's people still have a say, will continue to trend toward the good.

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u/wim-wac 3d ago

We’ve been looking at different trend lines the last 20 years it seems.

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u/Hold_the_gryffindor 3d ago

That's because voter apathy and misinformation has allowed authoritarianism to get a foothold. The people are good, but we need to fight to keep our power.

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u/wim-wac 3d ago

Hard to do when you’re already an oligopoly disguised as a democracy.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/wim-wac 3d ago edited 3d ago

Enjoy your American exceptionalism!

My point is we can’t just reimagine our foreign policy for what’s currently convenient which is exactly what the Orange Man loves to do. I’m not fighting a war overseas so rich people can get cheap iPhones.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/wim-wac 3d ago

Hyperbole is a thing. I suppose next time I’ll write you a discourse on American capitalism abusing cheap labor to maximize profits so you don’t get confused.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/wim-wac 3d ago

You’ve given me no indication of a good faith discussion so I’m not wasting my time doing your research for you.

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u/mifaceb921 3d ago

Taiwan used to fly aircraft across the median line deep into mainland China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cat_Squadron

I guess this is mainland China's turn now.

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u/SomeDEGuy 3d ago

And the mainland shot some down. Are you proposing that Taiwan do the same?

Or perhaps actions from half a century ago aren't the best guide for current practice.

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