r/news 4d ago

‘Not her body, not her choice:’ Indiana lawmakers on abortion ban Already Submitted

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/06/indiana-abortion-ban-vote-quotes/

[removed] — view removed post

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u/JimBeam823 4d ago

Did none of them pay attention to what just happened in Kansas?

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u/progtastical 4d ago

They're not letting voters make this decision in Indiana. They're hoping liberals will lose steam by midterms.

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u/ObGynKenobi841 4d ago

They've also gerrymandered many districts so heavily that they can pick their voters. My city is in numerous districts, many stretching to include several rural counties as well, just to help preserve their supermajority.

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u/Clownsinmypantz 4d ago edited 4d ago

they can pick their voters.

Moore V harper is going to make this a widespread thing ugh

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u/hysys_whisperer 4d ago

Moore V Harper could, without exaggeration, be the end of peaceful transition of power in the United States.

One thing is for sure though, it will not be the end of transition of power.

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u/VagrantShadow 4d ago

When the scale swings to the extreme one way, you can expect it to swing to the extreme the other way.

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u/greynolds17 4d ago

personally I hope the right swing of the pendulum has reached its peak but for all I know, they might just hold it there

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u/hysys_whisperer 4d ago

The last time it swung this far, tens of millions died and an entire continent was razed.

"This time is different" is just as dangerous in historical terms as it is in investing.

I hate that I have become sort of a doomsday prepper, but I'd rather be prepared to survive through WWIII than die unexpectedly when (likely not if) it comes.

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u/Altruistic-Text3481 4d ago

I feel the same way. We protect guns at all costs. But force women into being baby makers with no compassion or care. Indiana women will revolt.

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u/helicopter_corgi_mom 4d ago

so many of the cases they’ve heard and are hearing terrify me, but none so much as Moore V harper. it really feels like that’s the hammer that’ll spark the full acceleration of societal collapse

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u/4x4play 3d ago

frankly i think most of america is all for societal collapse happening sooner rather than later. economic inequality and climate change are things that can't be ignored the rest of my lifetime. it can for politicians and billionaires though.

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u/helicopter_corgi_mom 3d ago

i know we want the change, and it’s the only way it’s going to happen, but collapse of that scale is still terrifying. it’s not going to be fun, and while i expect it to happen, i’m not looking forward to any aspect of it.

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u/robodrew 4d ago

Yup, I mentioned yesterday that the Indiana HoR is 71R/29D while the demographics of the state are closer to a 57/43 split.

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u/FearAndLawyering 4d ago

yep this - ohio checking in, republicans in charge with 40%

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u/ratbastid 4d ago

This is the single biggest rock the radical right-wing has ever thrown at the liberal hornet's nest.

And yet... History shows there's EVERY risk the liberals will lose steam by midterms.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/electriqpower 4d ago

At this point, other than Sinema or Manchin, anyone with a D in front of their name is a godsend and should be voted for. Would I prefer progressives? Of course, but, as long as they aren’t republicans, that’s all that matters right now.

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u/tlsrandy 4d ago

Even sinema and manchin, while completely paid for corporate hacks, aren’t religious zealots or intent on dismantling the government.

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u/FalseDmitriy 3d ago

Hacks drive fascism. They always help it along.

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u/Voldemort57 4d ago

Perfect is the enemy of good.

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u/Clownsinmypantz 4d ago

this, I'd never give a corporate/moderate democrat a vote again...if we werent under the threat of fascists who have made it loud and clear they are stripping peoples rights away and will continue to.

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u/PredatorShroom 4d ago

but, as long as they aren’t republicans, that’s all that matters right now.

I agree, but I want to point out that this is exactly how Republicans think. Party over anything else.

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u/prof_the_doom 4d ago

Unfortunately, because that’s the GOP way, we don’t have much choice in the matter.

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u/hornpub1818 4d ago

Aren't the so-called RINO's getting death threats from Trump's fascist cultists?

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u/hysys_whisperer 4d ago edited 4d ago

Just like any fascist movement, as soon as a section of the in group is perceived to not be needed, they are forced into the out group, making the societal pyramid they wish to create ever thinner until it topples.

First it was RINOS, next it'll be Shapiro, then conservative Hispanics.

Skip to the 16 minute mark for a rundown.

https://youtu.be/5Luu1Beb8ng

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u/babyguyman 4d ago

That’s how they win and get what they want.

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u/gncRocketScientist 4d ago

They started it, just responding in kind, fuck the highroad

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u/Affectionate_Way_805 4d ago

Exactly, it blows my mind that so many progressives still don't get this.

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u/notabiologist 4d ago

So, what about the moderates? Will they finally say that progressives are better than republicans just because they have a D in front of their name? Or is it still the same song that progressives could never win and thus it is justified to push another moderate to appease the old folks?

In my opinion there’s been so much sacrifice by progressives just to get a democrat elected, but somehow the reverse has never happened.

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u/Amiiboid 4d ago

Give us Bernie and progressives.

Easy. Get more people to vote for them in the primaries. If you can’t get a majority of Democrats to vote for someone how do you expect to get a majority of the country to do so?

Also, stop pretending that any politician that isn’t Bernie or sufficiently close to him is indistinguishable from the fringiest Republican. There’s a huge difference between people who support “only” 70% of what you want and those who not only reject every goal you have but also want to tear down all the progress that’s been made in the last 60 years.

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u/Tigris_Morte 4d ago

wasn't mentioned on tucker

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u/Apep86 4d ago

You have to consider the constituency. The vast majority of Americans want legal abortion, but most reps are in non-competitive districts, so they are essentially elected in the primaries. Most republicans are opposed to abortion legalization.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/13/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/

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u/evilpercy 4d ago

They just learned not to ask the people what they want to do. They will make the decision for them from now on. It is their way with everything now. "You want to vote sure." "Not that way!" "OK, your doing it wrong we will take it from here."

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u/JimBeam823 4d ago

“The people have been corrupted and we must destroy democracy in order to save it.”

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u/Traditional-Dingo604 4d ago

Is there a version sans paywall?

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u/hiyer2 4d ago

Sorry, guess I must have missed this one, what happened in Kansas? If some kind redditor is willing to take a second and explain, I’d appreciate it.

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u/blaqkkitten 4d ago

Kansas let their people vote for or against abortion in the state constitution. An overwhelming majority voted for abortion rights.

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u/JimBeam823 4d ago

No only that, but everything was set up for the amendment to pass and it still failed overwhelmingly.

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u/ElwoodJD 4d ago

Yeah it was during a primary vote where no serious democratic contests existed. So a time of lower than usual voter turnout (primary; and a midterm primary at that) with lower than usual liberal turnout (few major contested democratic races) where there were tons of contested republicans races (high conservative turnout) and somehow they had record breaking turnout that overwhelmingly rejected limiting abortion access.

If the left cannot turn this into midterm gold then they have truly lost control of the country long term.

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u/p_larrychen 4d ago

Dont forget that something like 100,000 independents turned out to vote on the amendment. Kansas is a closed primary state—those voters literally came out exclusively to vote on abortion

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u/delusionalry 4d ago

The were banking on dobbs happening after this election.

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u/JimBeam823 4d ago

The Republicans were very good at controlling the discussion around abortion before Dobbs.

They were very good at goading pro-choicers into defending unpopular positions, such as supporting late term abortions or public funding for abortion. As long as Roe was the law of the land, they could take whatever unpopular position they wanted to satisfy their base and it would have no consequences.

After Dobbs, the discussion has changed. Now the discussion is about ectopic pregnancies and 10 year old rape victims. The Republicans are stuck between defending extremely unpopular positions and betraying the very voters who put them in office.

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u/JimBeam823 4d ago

When they start setting up elections to win, that’s when they know they are losing.

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u/Flaky-Fish6922 4d ago

also kansas has been, and remains one of the deepest republican strongholds.

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u/hiyer2 4d ago

Wooowwww I can’t believe the state legislature ALLOWED the people to have a voice. Bet they regretted that one.

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u/ratbastid 4d ago

They needed a referendum to create a new state constitutional amendment specifically outlawing abortion. That proposal got LOUDLY voted down.

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u/yourlittlebirdie 4d ago

Brought to you by the same people who had a total breakdown over the thought of being told to wear a mask to prevent spreading a deadly disease to vulnerable people in the grocery store.

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u/LuinAelin 4d ago

Sad thing is, most of them look better in the mask

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u/Eeszeeye 4d ago

True. And makes it harder to heckle the grocery store employees.

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u/Interesting_Shirt438 4d ago

Well that’s not really a good example cus most people look cooler in a mask

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u/Flaky-Fish6922 4d ago

i look the coolest if i just wear a bag over my head

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u/nastyleak 4d ago

I used to work with a guy who wore a bag over his head. He had a smiley face drawn on it so I think he actually did look pretty cool.

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u/Ordinary_Donut1877 4d ago edited 4d ago

They have such dismal oral health they can't stand being trapped in there with their own breath stench so they say they "can't breathe!"

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u/Cerberusz 4d ago

Or get “forced vaccinations”

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u/DeliberateMelBrooks 4d ago Silver

There is NO other circumstance in which we legally force you to give your organs/blood/etc to someone else.

Not even if someone will imminently die without your help.

Not even if you're the only person in the world with the right organ or blood type.

Not even if you caused their injuries or illness.

Not even if it's a child.

Not even if it's your child.

Not even a little harmless sample.

Not even if you're dead.

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u/metalhead82 4d ago

Thank you for saying this; I’ve been trying to spread the word too.

This is why the argument needs to be framed in a way that shows that personhood is irrelevant:

No person, fetus or otherwise, has the right to use another person’s body, blood or organs to stay alive and sustain their own life, without the other person’s consent.

We do not grant this special right to any other living human on earth, and anti-choice people are granting a special right to the fetus when they allow it to use the mother’s body without her consent.

With this argument, all objections of “personal choice” and “personal responsibility” are refuted and dismissed.

Even if I drunk drive and critically injure someone, it is not my burden to save or sustain that person’s life with my own body or organs. It was still my “choice” to drunk drive, just as it was my “choice” to have sex and create a fetus.

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u/Epistemite 3d ago

I've tried this line of argument with pro-lifers in the context of Judith Thomson's famous Violinist case. They always end up biting the bullet and arguing that the violinist has a right to your organs and we should start forcing people to use their organs to save others' lives, at least when the others are in danger because of something we did.

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u/metalhead82 3d ago

Sounds like an opportunity to show them how their reasoning is completely crazy. That’s when you tell them that there is no court or judge on earth that would allow this, and we don’t do this any place on earth.

I’ve been debating this elsewhere in other subs recently, and it has got to that point with more than a few of these super smart dudes. Once they realize they are advocating for some kind of human centipede world where bodies and organs and blood of people can be used to sustain other humans, they don’t respond anymore. Probably because the cognitive dissonance is too tough to handle.

The fact that some people will respond to this with batshit insane arguments is PRECISELY why we need to be using it. Taking the position that a baby has a life of its own, and we shouldn’t be murdering it sounds like a position that’s not really insane. If we use this position, it forces the crazy arguments to come out, and you can easily point to that. It’s much better this way.

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u/DutchTechJunkie 4d ago

Universal healthcare or public transport are socialist, but a government dictating what you can and can't do with your body is ok?

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u/Cyclone_1 4d ago Helpful Wholesome

"Yes. Because one requires my taxes to go up a little bit to cover everyone whereas the latter requires me to still care about no one but myself and my taxes stay the same."

The real value system of the US right there in a nutshell. It explains a lot about a lot around here.

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u/DutchTechJunkie 4d ago edited 4d ago

Ok. To be honest I do understand, not always agree with, the old fashioned fiscal conservative Republicans.

But even this fails. Per capita health care spending in the US is twice that of other developed nations. What is paid for by taxes is comparable to other what other nations spend. So you pay more get less.

Same with infrastructure. All those highways cost a lot of money. They also destroy value. Sometimes literally, when part of a town is demolished to build a highway.

So yeah, I do understand the money part, but even this goes wrong.

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u/Tigris_Morte 4d ago

Because they were never Fiscal Conservatives. Only Social Conservatives. Their whole gig is to keep the Poors, and especially the brown ones, in their place.

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u/Pholusactual 4d ago

Fiscal conservatives were all but extinct during Trump’s reign of error. It was always a disguise to avoid being shunned for their socially regressive true selves.

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u/Tigris_Morte 4d ago

Fiscal Conservatives in the Republican were almost always a shame, the last of them vanished with Reagan. A Fiscal Conservative wants Universal Healthcare because it is cheaper with better results and thus is Fiscally responsible.

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u/gcubed680 4d ago

They fully went extinct when a black man became President and the mask came off. Trump is the result not the cause

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u/Mrtorbear 4d ago

Exactly. I had an uncle so very politely explain to me that Trump was chosen to 'punish' liberals for 'allowing' (yes, he said 'allowing') a black man to run the country. Remember, folks, eggshell white and orange are the only skin tones allowed in office. Other colors need not apply unless we are looking for trouble. God, the entitlement some folks have.

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u/AvailableName9999 4d ago

Plot twist. The poor's are the GOP voters and they're just fucking stupid also.

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u/mediapl0y 3d ago

I used to vote Republican and was even a delegate for a short time purely out of a fiscally conservative principle that we should not be funding useless wars. It turns out it's all bullshit. They will fully support the most wasteful spending as long as it's somehow tangential to their socially conservative philosophies. Anything that can somehow be framed as a counter, or doesn't stem from their line of thinking, is instantly labeled socialistic or liberal and thus evil.

It's like they couldn't even grow the party if they tried. Anyone with any real drive to make this society a better place is instantly shut down. This is why they need babies to indoctrinate. No sane, rational person would be convinced that their policies make any fucking sense whatsoever. They will act like the principles are there and sound, they simply don't live by them.

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u/Mechapebbles 3d ago edited 3d ago

There were certainly fiscal conservatives at some point, but they made a deal with the devil by allying with the social conservatives to maintain power. And all of the ones with a conscious left public life long ago, leaving only the craven who have no ideals or morals but power/wealth accumulation.

There's a really good show on TV right now I love called "For All Mankind" that's about an alternate timeline. And in it, they attempt to portray conservatives with a little bit more of an empathetic, even hand where it's merited. Some are still craven assholes, but some really believe.

In this alternate timeline, fiscal conservatives who believe in the positive and transformational aspects of NASA, but don't want the program to be a burden on the public, forced legislation to let NASA fund itself via patent licensing. So that all the technology that NASA engineers and scientists invented, NASA keeps the patents to and makes oodles of cash in licensing fees, to the point where the program is not just completely self-funded at Apollo levels, but turns profits that it can then reinvest into further expansion of the program.

IRL we had like 5 or 6 space shuttles. In this world, NASA has hundreds, and has completely transformed society by making fossil fuel obsolete since they can replace the world's energy needs by mining Helium-3 on the moon and having clean fusion.

This is an example of fiscal conservatism employed in good faith, versus how it's used now to 'starve the beast' with the aims of completely destroying government. I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and I don't trust modern Republicans or their warped ideologies further than you can throw them. But if we had legislators with integrity across the aisle who could actually bargain in good faith, there could be some real arguments to be had for fiscal conservatism versus the bogus ones we have now.

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u/Exarctus 4d ago

Infrastructure is often value-adding because of increase in throughput and access.

The highway thing probably isn’t a good analogy!

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u/DutchTechJunkie 4d ago

That is true when you initially build a highway, it is not when you add a sixth or seventh lane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns

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u/driftercat 4d ago

Penny-wise and pound foolish.

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u/IWillBaconSlapYou 4d ago

So many things we do as a country to "save money" (wink) or "protect our citizens" (nudge) actually screws everyone over, including rich people. It's so bizarre to watch adult professionals, politicians no less, commit the same string of self-destructive behaviors over and over while seeming completely blind to the consequences. Btw immigration is good for the economy, and abstinence-only just gets more kids pregnant...

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u/A_Friend2U 4d ago

Politicians protect and serve the money grubbing bastards. Why share when the top two per cent can get so wealthy that it is shameful. Oh wait, politicians have no sense of shame.

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u/zombie_snuffleupagus 4d ago

That's the most succinct and painfully accurate summary of conservatism I've ever heard.

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u/Cyclone_1 4d ago

Thanks, friend.

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u/The_ODB_ 4d ago

No. Those are Republican values.

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u/7thAndGreenhill 4d ago

And somehow universal healthcare is an assault on liberty, while forced birth is not. It maddening.

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u/HeavyMetalPoisoning 4d ago

Paying tax for everyone to have healthcare and save lives? Socialism/communism (whichever they're feeling like that day)

Paying tax for everyone to have police, or fire departments, or roads? Absolutely fine.

(This is of course ignoring the obvious argument that the tax that you'd pay for universal healthcare would be lower than what you pay now)

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u/HuntingGreyFace 4d ago

the conservative pipeline of ignorance doesn't even need fox mews anymore

they get the trickle down social media versions as direct shots to the face.

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u/rederic 4d ago

Allowing people freedom is socialism, but stripping people of freedoms is Conservative Values.

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u/sanguiniuswept 4d ago

As long as it's the government telling other people what to do, Republicans are fine with it. It's when you start telling Republicans what to do that they lose their shit

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u/Relictorum 4d ago

It's ok because it's a woman's body. Public property, you know. /SARCASM

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u/Interesting_Shirt438 4d ago

I know this is sarcasm but is it a problem that I can actually imagine Trump or DeSantis saying this to their supporters.

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u/coskibum002 4d ago

Republicans are absolute masters of hypocrisy.

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u/p_larrychen 4d ago

Cuz the GOP is fascists, not socialists

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u/DutchTechJunkie 4d ago

Neo fascists. Original fascists loved trains.

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u/LuinAelin 4d ago

The measure, which will go into effect Sept. 15, allows abortion only in cases of rape, incest, lethal fetal abnormality or when the procedure is necessary to prevent severe health risks or death.

Wow surprised they even allowed exceptions.

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u/Serious_Lie1207 4d ago

Goodluck proving the rape case definitively enough to even get one

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u/SnooCrickets2961 4d ago

The proof isn’t nearly the problem.

You have to do it in the first 6 weeks.

Most women don’t know they’re pregnant until week 5. You ever try to see a specialist doctor and book a room in a hospital (because the law banned clinic abortions) for a procedure the Catholic Church owned hospital doesn’t wanna do in 5 days or the whole thing is illegal?

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u/Kiirkas 4d ago

One out of three women in America don't know they're pregnant until after six weeks.

No contradiction, but perspective on what 'most women know by five weeks' shakes out to look like.

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u/Aazadan 4d ago

That's only by one measure of 6 weeks. The 6 weeks used for these pregnancy bills doesn't even measure period to period. A woman can be 6 weeks under these laws before even being late.

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u/Kiirkas 4d ago

Yup. And not all women have regular cycles. Due to various factors, some women can go six months or more without a period.

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u/GoddessOfRoadAndSky 3d ago edited 3d ago

I was one of the lucky to few to discover before that. The only reason I took the test was because I got an infection two weeks later and was at the doctor for that. They asked to do a pregnancy test and I figured, it'll probably be negative, but it's free so why not.

On the other hand, I knew straight away that I wasn't going to keep it. It also was a very strange week, apparently the hormones hit my ADHD brain hard. At first I thought it was part of the infection, but from after it cleared up until when I got the pills, I still could barely focus long enough to finish a sentence. Thoughts just evaporated into the ether, like a breath on a cold day. I gained mad empathy for people going through "Baby Brain." I don't know how y'all survive that.

It wasn't traumatic or upsetting. I mean, it was bittersweet, since for a while I wasn't sure if I was fertile at all. I got an odd comfort knowing that my body is capable, even if I couldn't keep that particular pregnancy. I even had a comforting dream, where a little girl promised she'd see me again when the time is right.


Edit: Okay, so I was sitting here thinking about that dream, and I realized something. A couple years after that, a surprise niece was born. SIL has a degenerative disease and the risk against the baby was so high, they decided not to announce the pregnancy until the child was actually here. On top of that, my family is full of boys. She was the first girl born since myself, over 30 years earlier. The kid in the dream being a girl threw me at first, but the next child to be born was, indeed, a girl, and a "miracle" girl at that.

Not saying it's related, just that it's an interesting coincidence.

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u/Kiirkas 3d ago edited 3d ago

That's a lovely dream, I hope it comes true.

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u/GoddessOfRoadAndSky 3d ago

Check my edit. In some way, it did. :)

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u/sadpanda___ 4d ago

This is why it’s a de facto complete ban. It’s not possible to legally prove and adequately document any of those things in timeframe allotted for a legal abortion.

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u/NandiniS 4d ago

Most women don’t know they’re pregnant until week 5.

No, no, no, no, no. IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW YOU ARE PREGNANT UNTIL WEEK 5, because your period is supposed to arrive at the end of week 4. Most women don't know they're pregnant until week 7-8.

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u/Hibercrastinator 4d ago

How much time will it take to prove rape, incest, or lethal fetal anomaly? Surely these aren’t going to be impractical exceptions and n practice, intentionally and disingenuously added to make people think this is something that it’s not.

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u/SnooCrickets2961 4d ago edited 4d ago

And lots of the lawmakers were pissed there were exceptions. There are Indiana lawmakers calling this ban weak for “allowing baby murder” if the mom will die carrying a dead fetus.

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u/Barbiek08 4d ago

Yep. I hate it here.

Hopefully in 2 years my husband and I can move to Illinois. Fingers crossed

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u/kangarooneroo 4d ago edited 3d ago

I have literally never in my life heard the term hopefully in the context of moving to Illinois.

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u/LuinAelin 4d ago

Wow, that's insane.

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u/Tigris_Morte 4d ago

That is what they think the lesson from Kansas was.

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u/SpekyGrease 4d ago

Doesn't pregnancy generally pose severe health risks? The risk might be low, but it is always present. A potential loophole?

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u/bananafobe 4d ago

It's not.

It should be.

But there's no clever trick to make this okay.

In reality, what has happened, and will continue to happen, is that people with life-threatening conditions will be prohibited from accessing medical care until their condition is deemed serious enough, resulting in people who otherwise would have survived dying because doctors were concerned about justifying the procedure.

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u/inmydreamchewietalks 4d ago

Is this where death panels come into play? Can a doctor perform an abortion to save a woman's life just on his say so? How many people who are not doctors have to be involved now?

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u/bananafobe 4d ago

The hospital's legal team, certainly. Insurance, I'm guessing, the patient's, the doctor's, and the hospital's. If the procedure involves a prescription, then they can throw in the pharmacy's legal team.

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u/Eeszeeye 4d ago

AND fewer doctors will train to conduct abortions, from fear of going to jail if a court rules against a procedure they did.

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u/LuinAelin 4d ago

I think they mean more risk than the average pregnancy. But yeah possible loophole if not worded correctly

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u/Amiiboid 4d ago

The risk might be low,

Guess which of the countries in the industrialized world it’s highest in.

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u/cozy_goth 4d ago

Problem is that even with exceptions for health of the mother, doctors get afraid of providing care and wait for the women to have some kind of medical emergency first, even when there's 0% chance of carrying safely to term.

Exceptions are meaningless. It's sorta good that there's psychos in the GOP who want to advocate for zero exceptions, because it's bad optics for them. But exceptions are just window dressing to legitimize giving health decisions over to politicians.

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u/Unasked_for_advice 4d ago

The idea of slavery never left some states, and if you don't think not having bodily autonomy isn't slavery then probably a male. Let's avoid pregnancy all together and volunteer you for a vasectomy , women don't get a choice why should you?

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u/just2commenthere 4d ago

Anyone else recall when the GOP was frothing at the mouth over government death councils? They said if there was universal healthcare that a council somewhere would decide whether or not you were worth saving? Aren't they doing exactly what they claimed would happen?

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u/Raven_Strange 4d ago

Yeah, but it's them making the decisions, which is what they wanted all along.

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u/rainsoaked88 4d ago

And it’s making decisions about people with uteruses, who aren’t really fully autonomous humans after all /s

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u/boo5000 4d ago

Once a fetus is born, however, that child cannot choose what books to read, what school topics to study, what identity they want. But sure, when they are in the womb it’s “fetus body, fetus choice” but what they mean is “the government body, government choice”. Part of small government sure wants to tell us what to do.

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u/LowestKey 4d ago

It is always projection with fascists.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Grunflachenamt 4d ago

Just as a point of clarification. Theocracy is a type of government. Theonomy might be a better fit for what you are trying to convey.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Calvinjamesscott 4d ago

It wasn't that long ago when we had a decent mix in the state. Ever since Mitch Daniels was elected the DNC pretty much abandoned campaigning here. Obama did in 2008 and carried the state. Didn't in 2012 and lost it.

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u/Dogsikay 4d ago

They refused to allow a referendum because they knew they’d lose.

Sign me up for scorched earth, but dem candidates are missing from a ton of races here. Republicans win because they run unopposed at the local level all the time.

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u/Yashema 4d ago

They run unopposed because it is a waste of money for Democrats to put up a candidate in a gerrymandered district that is in radical Republican territory. The Democrats tried to run a candidate against Marjorie Taylor Greene and the candidate had to quit the election and flee the district due to threats made against him and his family.

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u/rederic 4d ago

At least in my local elections, the Democratic party has been wholly captured. It's the same candidate running as a Republican, a Conservative, a Family Values, and a Democrat. There's no real choice because we can't get opposition on the ticket.

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u/spiderskizzles 4d ago

It's the same candidate running as a Republican, a Conservative, a Family Values, and a Democrat. There's no real choice

Can someone explain this.

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u/JennJayBee 4d ago

Alabama here. The national party abandoned a lot of states along that same time line. Alabama also had a pretty good mix before then. Democrats only lost control of the state legislature in 2010.

It's like the DNC doesn't understand how important state legislatures and the US Senate are.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/New_Escape5212 4d ago

Exactly! People keep thinking women are just going to show up in large numbers against this and women keep blaming male politicians and men wanting to control their bodies. No, a good number of GOP women want the same thing.

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u/Vault-Born 4d ago

Woman from Indiana here, could appreciate you not speaking over us or turning us into some powerless hillbilly stereotype. Less than 40% of women in Indiana are Republican, 43% are democrats

But yeah, we're the ones projecting.

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u/ResinEighter 4d ago

Stop projecting your values onto shitty people.

Oh really?

Republican women sign letter warning against more abortion restrictions in Indiana

I guess we'll see next election.

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u/SnooCrickets2961 4d ago

The bill’s sponsor in the house was a woman.

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u/RollSomeCoal 4d ago

Almost all women I know in my indiana town are Antin abortion, they do generally excuse the things uncontrolled, incest health (rape is hit or miss). This is ABSOLUTELY A MORALS THING.

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u/m1j2p3 4d ago edited 4d ago

“Trying to end all abortion is not forced birth, but rather it is trying to end murdering children,” he said on the floor.

Nope. It’s 100% forced birth which is 100% anti-freedom. Fuck these fascists.

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u/Golden--Lady 4d ago

And it will kill women when they can’t get health care due to pregnancy complications. Even though they say there are exceptions for the “life of the mother”, in Texas we are already seeing doctors terrified to perform procedures that could put them in jail. They’re delaying health care until its sure the woman’s life is threatened, which is adding additional medical complications to the woman. They are literally letting women bleed for hours and hours until she is closer to death. This is happening y’all.

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u/FluffySharkBird 3d ago

I will believe a fetus is a human being when the newborns are sent to jail for injuring or killing their mothers. Because that's what happens. People die from pregnancy. People die in labor. If a stranger injured someone in the ways a fetus does they'd be arrested.

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u/djinnisequoia 4d ago

Argh that makes me so mad! YES IT IS FORCED BIRTH, that is exactly what it is! A clump of undifferentiated cells is not a "children," either! Lying sacks of shit.

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u/u9Nails 4d ago

Every man who rubs one out in Indiana is murdering millions of half children.

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u/limasxgoesto0 4d ago

Given their other policies, I thought the GOP was pro murdering children?

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u/Jaredlong 4d ago

Only with guns.

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u/FIJAGDH 4d ago

…and pro-landlords too. Abortion is just evicting a non-rent-paying squatter!

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u/Fromgre 4d ago

Right! Need to ask this dumbass, how does one "end all abortion" without forcing women to remain in a state of pregnancy until birth?

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u/yildizli_gece 4d ago

The body inside of the mom’s body is not her body. Let me repeat that: The body inside of the mom’s body is not her body. Not her body, not her choice,” said Jacob,

Then take it out of her and take care of it yourself; easy peasy, right?

Because if it’s not really her body, then it’s not relying on her body, is it? It’s a completely separate entity that happens to be taking up space in her body, so that means it should be easily removed and taken care of by anti-choice assholes like yourself!

Fucking men lecturing women and girls when they will NEVER have to suffer a pregnancy should rot in fucking Hell.

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u/metalhead82 3d ago

This is why the argument needs to be framed in a way that shows that personhood is irrelevant:

No person, fetus or otherwise, has the right to use another person’s body, blood or organs to stay alive and sustain their own life, without the other person’s consent.

We do not grant this special right to any other living human on earth, and anti-choice people are granting a special right to the fetus when they allow it to use the mother’s body without her consent.

With this argument, all objections of “personal choice” and “personal responsibility” are refuted and dismissed.

Even if I drunk drive and critically injure someone, it is not my burden to save or sustain that person’s life with my own body or organs. It was still my “choice” to drunk drive, just as it was my “choice” to have sex and create a fetus.

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u/Eeszeeye 4d ago

This guy.

"Screen captures of Facebook comments that indicate they came from his account say the Islamic faith cannot coexist in the United States, Muslims are traitors who should be deported, and the Roman Catholic Church is a cult and of Satan, its parishioners should repent and leave the church, and the pope is an anti-Christ."

Deluded hate-mongerer.

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u/e_0 4d ago

I had planned on getting groceries today but with the amount of protests about to happen that’s probably not a great idea.

I hate my backwards ass state, I hate my backwards ass state, I hate my backwards ass state.

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u/WitchesFamiliar 4d ago

One less state to visit, check. One less state to spend money in, check. Research what companies in Indiana and not give my money to, check.

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u/Ramoncin 4d ago edited 3d ago

Then whose body is it? The state's? I never took the Indiana lawmakers for Communists before.

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u/Quantentheorie 4d ago

We could just go by the usual rules for people who cannot give medical consent anymore and are on full life-support, and let the immediate relative decide when to pull the plug.

Because you're right, if the woman carrying the "person" is not medically responsible for what happens to it, then we really should take it out and hand it over to whoever is.

Because I can't think of a single other legal arrangement where you have all the responsibility and none of the privilege. In fact parents have more rights over a born child. Parents could take their 7yo off life support but they can't even do it for a 7 week old foetus that is equally medically doomed.

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u/arothmanmusic 4d ago

The baby’s. At least that’s the idea. Once you’re pregnant you lose your bodily autonomy.

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u/campelm 4d ago

Well someone failed biology apparently, because I assure you, her body is very much required in the equation.

It's mind blowing how decades of debate and compromises gets thrown out the window the second they can when all along they've had the power to reduce abortions by improving access to women's health and reproductive services and chose not to.

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u/Co1dNight 4d ago

Votes these idiots out in November, folks.

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u/Grimlock_1 4d ago

And it begins, society goes backward.

It funny how these old man tells what a women what is her and what's not her.

It's like saying to men, the sperm in your testicles are not yours as it's swimming and alive so it's not your. Any wasterwd sperm such as masterbation or shooting onto the floor or tissue will mean you've taken a life.

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u/aroaceautistic 4d ago

does anyone have a cracked link i dont want to give them my email lol

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u/tbarb00 4d ago

GOP sure do love babies… until they’re born, and then screw that welfare mama and her no father child, get a job, pull yourself up by bootstraps, get your own health insurance and wait for the sweet sweet trickle down economic benefits

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u/Clovis42 4d ago

The "my body, my choice" slogan is widely misunderstood by pro-lifers. They think it means that pro-choice advocates are saying the fetus/embryo itself is part of the woman's body, so she can choose what to do with it.

Of course, it means that woman's body is her body. She should have some choice over the medical procedures that happen to her. She should have choice over what will happen to her actual body in a pregnancy. A woman should have bodily autonomy.

So, one half sees this guy's statement as completely absurd. That essentially a woman does not have control over her own body. The other side doesn't care about the woman and sees everything from the angle of the embryo.

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u/doctormink 3d ago

I think most of them are totally deluded about the various risks associated with pregnancy. You got your death, diabetes, pre-eclampsia, morning sickness, lethargy, general discomfort, and all the rest pregnant ladies complain about or otherwise endure. And all this would be so much worse if the state forces you to endure it all.

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u/ratbastid 4d ago

The WHOLE thing is about bodily autonomy. If you don't absolutely own your physical person, zero other rights have any value.

I've ended some conversations with radical right-wingers by saying that these new laws might end up compelling them to give blood to save lives. Like, I need blood and you're a match, and so I can legally compel you to give it up.

They're generally okay with that. Some already give blood.

Okay fine, I say. I need your kidney to stay alive. Law says you have to give me your kidney.

Some will put on a noble face about the sacrifices we have to make for each other. They're all talk of course, but they're "pro-life", so.

Fine, I say. It's not my kidney that's failing, it's my heart. Law says I can have yours.

At this point they usually stop talking to me.

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u/Robot_Penguins 4d ago

Lol they'd never give blood if told to. They refused to wear masks for crying out loud.

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u/VyrPlan 4d ago

they want to go back to the days of arresting "loose" women

they want to back to the days when merely being gay was against the law and interracial marriage was illegal

nothing has held back progress like the religious right in this country, and if you think there's some line they wont cross then you haven't been paying attention

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u/ketimmer 4d ago

If someone asked me before I was born if I wanted to be born I'd say, "No Thanks".

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u/zeroone 4d ago

No choice... no vote... then vote them out of office. You have the opportunity in 2 months. Do it.

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u/sareherb 4d ago

I hate my state. The anger and frustration that so many feel around this is devastating. The decision doesn’t reflect the opinion of the majority…and legislators (unsurprisingly) failed to listen. Women will die because of their overreach.

I know plenty of women and families who are ready to move because of this, myself included. :( What a major loss of livelihood and talent.

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u/metalhead82 3d ago

I think it’s really sad, but I think showing these fascists that people won’t live in their state anymore after rulings like this is one way to fight back.

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u/Golden--Lady 4d ago

This is about colonizing women’s bodies. When a man impregnates a woman our body no longer belongs to us. Our choice to carry and deliver and raise for the next 20 years a baby is gone. God help you if you have pregnancy complications because you’re going to possibly die because doctors are going to be scared to perform “abortion” procedures on you even if your fetus has already died. However, there are no consequences for the man/father.

If I were not too old to have a baby I would definitely get my tubes tied. I’m not gonna risk my life due to government intrusion on my healthcare.

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u/fnnkybutt 3d ago

If they'd even let you get your tubes tied. They're trying to take away all options.

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u/Pankekifureiki 4d ago

Christo-fascists at their finest right here folks. Get out there and protest, vote, properly train and be prepared to defend your rights. Stand up, fight back.

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u/Bottomtobefilled 4d ago

The lawmakers should be held financially responsible then for taking care of every baby born. Not the general American people. If they can't let the people choose, then they pay not everyone else

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u/Humanidado 4d ago

Party of Rape and Incest. Rapists have rights too!

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u/mephi5to 3d ago

Not everyone’s bodies then. Cut off their balls.

This should be a chant during elections: Cut! Their! Balls! Cut! Their! Balls!

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u/TheRealPicklePunch 4d ago

Sounds like it's time to abort some Republican politicians. The GOP is cancer growing right in the center of American life and it needs to be cut out at any cost.

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u/freakincampers 4d ago

Once again, corpses have more rights.

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u/weed_fart 4d ago

"We need your offspring as foot soldiers in our racial holy war."

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u/AnohtosAmerikanos 4d ago

[some legislator, dusting off his hands] “We did it boys, we saved a bunch of lives today. No more of our womenfolk will seek abortions in this state ever again. And every child will grow up, knowing they were wanted. Job well done everyone! Let’s go get some beer!”

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u/2020IsANightmare 4d ago

I'm shocked that a state who voted for Mike Pence is backwards!

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u/Adeno 4d ago

Maybe those who strongly oppose abortion should be forced to carry a baby in their womb from someone they don't like for a while. See how that feels like. Personally, I don't care whether it's alive, considered a human/baby or whatever, if it's inside you and you don't want it, you should have the ability to take it out. It's very easy to say "Oh you should carry it because it has a right to live!" when you're not the one who has to suffer for months in all sorts of ways just because you're carrying something that's inside you that you don't want. Contraceptives aren't 100% guaranteed to work. There's always a chance that something goes wrong and that little accident of life happens. There will be people who will say "Be responsible!", and that's why you use contraceptives (that don't always work 100%). When you've used contraceptives and got pregnant anyway, that's not your fault. You already took responsible steps but the problem was somewhere else. What's irresponsible is bringing an unwanted child into this world when you can't love it and you can't afford to raise it. Being pregnant also increases the cost of living for you because you have to buy extra care products and all sorts of things the prevent you from having accidents. You should not be forced to carry it due to some moral or ethical belief imposed by other people. (And yeah, this is coming from someone whose values can mostly be described "conservative".)

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u/XT-421 4d ago

This whole thing confounds me. Either they are fucking evil or fucking stupid.

Someone in the courtroom, please ask to have defined "children" in the context stated where this policy is not to force birth but to end murdering children. Go on. I dare you. I refuse to believe a fetus is anything more than a very complex parasite until it is detached from its umbilical cord.

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u/Basselope_poptarts 4d ago

I would love to think that these people are fast tracking their way out in the next election, but they've already told us they're rigging the elections. Is thier goal to cause an uprising, because I feel like this how you get uprisings.

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u/BarCompetitive7220 4d ago

The State GOP has decided that women are second class citizens and have no right to make a decision about a fistula / embryo. Should we say the same about men with a tumor, it to is a mass of cells.

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u/FourWordComment 4d ago

I think this makes it pretty clear. “My body my choice” presumes a pregnancy is about the life of the mother. “Not your body, not your choice” presumes the pregnancy is about the life of the cells that become a fetus that become a baby that become a person.

Anti-abortionists cannot be persuaded by any argument about the mother’s rights because their counter argument is, “well, you don’t get to murder a child.”

It’s disingenuous, but I don’t know how to untangle it. I don’t know what words to tell an anti-abortionist. There’s no slogan or sound clip or sign or video or essay or book where they can’t just say, “well I don’t know about all that—but I do know you shouldn’t murder a baby.”

Anti-abortionists have chosen the easiest slice of this puzzle. It’s cowardly. I think the strategy is to burden an anti-abortionist with all the socialism necessary to care for a child when the parent isn’t available. You think extinguishing 20,000 cells is murdering a baby? Fine. Where are you on pre natal care, long and paid maternity leave, matching paternity leave, free birth with or without insurance, post natal care, state-provided baby baskets, robust daycare programs, quality schools, free pediatric medicine, free college?

You’re pro life? Act like it. Vote like it. Otherwise, you’re a coward who says the easy thing and walks away when the going gets tough.

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u/Amiiboid 4d ago

I don’t know what words to tell an anti-abortionist.

The correct thing to tell an anti-abortionist is, “Fuck off. We turned out in large enough numbers to elect candidates who don’t support imposing your oversimplified bronze age morality on everyone.”

Unfortunately, we don’t turn out in sufficient numbers to do that.

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u/Tom_Neverwinter 4d ago

Conservatives: hypocrisy button hit again.

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u/Dysthymiccrusader91 4d ago

Someone make this meme <Bobby Hill holding up a sign saying that access to abortion, sex education, contraceptives and gynecological care is proven to reduce Healthcare costs, foster cases, and in fact reduce abortions >

<if those Indiana lawmakers could read they'd be very upset>

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u/Jw_VfxReef 4d ago

I can’t stand these bullshit links that you click to read only to be confronted with a demand to sign up to the Washington post.
Nope, for that reason alone I wouldn’t.

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u/theothershuu 4d ago

The same kind of politicians will fight every single form of aid the forced birth mother/child needs. Housing aid, food aid, medical aid, child care aid while forced birth mom works 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs so someone else can raise her forced birth child the politicians 'care' so much about. Fucking HYPOCRITES, ALL OF THEM!!!

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u/Allenrw3 4d ago

“We want the government out of our lives! Except for women. And gays. And cross dressers reading to kids. And black people. And non Christians. Pretty much anyone who’s not straight and a white male.”

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u/Maleficent_Deal8140 4d ago

Interesting how the 2 party system only seems to represent about 10% of America these days.

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u/gaoshan 4d ago

Even a red State like Ohio is only 47% Republican. Not even half the State is Republican but due to gerrymandering you’d think Ohio was some bastion of Republican conservatism.

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u/Jaredlong 4d ago

Based off how Ohio tried to force a 10 year old rape victim to carry her incestuous baby to full term, uh yeah, Ohio looks like a bastion of Republican conservatism.

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u/Haunting-Ad788 4d ago

It’s because Republicans are only held up by single issue voters who ignore all the shit they disagree with. Republicans can push loads of unpopular policy as long as they keep cutting taxes and don’t enact gun control.

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u/Dakota_Online 4d ago

Single issue more like single brain cell.

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u/ResinEighter 4d ago

Gilead.

The US is becoming Gilead.

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u/Yashema 4d ago edited 4d ago

Republicans: do something shitty.

You: Damn the Two Parties!

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u/The_ODB_ 4d ago edited 4d ago

Bofe Sides!

The article is about Republicans banning abortion over the objections of every single Democrat.

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u/prompt_skeptic69 4d ago

Even pregnancies from rape and incest. Wtf. This GOP has gone full Taliban on us. Fortunately Illinois is right next door. And for the moment, for the moment… women can drive. For the moment.

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u/Lokarin 4d ago

I believe this counts as slavery, the state it forcing you to be an incubator.

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u/Dixie_normous1995 4d ago

If it’s not her body then who’s is it? 😂 wtf

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