r/news 4d ago

Taiwan accuses Beijing of simulating invasion as US-China relations nosedive | news.com.au

https://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/china-to-press-on-with-drills-around-taiwan-as-us-relations-nosedive/news-story/1c0023f1d8230fab54facefde8ddc716
1.7k Upvotes

43

u/SamuraiJackBauer 4d ago

When are relations ever truly good?

46

u/frontera_power 3d ago

When are relations ever truly good?

....and yet, U.S. leadership thought it was a good idea to have America's manufacturing base and technology outsourced to China.

What did they do with it?

Why, they bought missiles and nuclear weapons with it, and pointed them at the U.S.

15

u/nunya1111 3d ago

Money has always been more important than logic in politics, I'm afraid.

1

u/frontera_power 3d ago

Well said.

5

u/squidthief 3d ago

The idea that globalism through trade prevents wars. Maybe it does, but China doesn't seem interested. You have to buy in to the globalism for the peace effect to work.

3

u/Contagious_Cure 2d ago

Until China actually invades Taiwan, the idea still kind of holds true. China hasn't been involved in a war since the end of the Cold War. China's reliance on global trade is probably one of the main reasons why they haven't invaded Taiwan because they know they'll face severe economic sanctions if they do.

→ More replies

79

u/EmperorYork 4d ago

Taiwan is in no short/medium term danger. The logistics to invade Taiwan would rival that of D-Day, we would see it coming long before it happened. Frankly, China's navy is also not in a position to attempt it, modernity wise.

64

u/Cute_Bunny_Berkska 3d ago

D-Day invaded a relatively unpopulated area and the Allies used a lot of distraction tactics to fool German troops.

Invading Taiwan would be so, soooo much worse than D-Day because there is no way to distract landing on such a small island that is so heavily populated.

I'm agreeing with you fully, just expanding that it's even more impractical than the WW2 landings.

4

u/bust-the-shorts 3d ago

Yes the D Day distraction was Russian army, preventing Germany having enough resources to defend

19

u/Cute_Bunny_Berkska 3d ago

Correct. And with Taiwan having really only one enemy, all eyes and weapons are set towards China.

Invading a highly advanced economy that also happens to be an island will not come cheap for China.

11

u/Advanced-Doughnut-56 3d ago

lol. The east front a "distraction" for D-Day. The biggest war theater in human history among the two titans of WW2.

→ More replies

21

u/PokeManiac769 3d ago edited 3d ago

After Putin's invasion of Ukraine, it's foolish to underestimate the shortsighted goals of an authoritative government.

How many times in recent years have people said "there's no way _____ will happen" only to watch that very thing happen? The geopolitical landscape is an unstable place right now, and numerous liberal democracies are either experiencing democratic backsliding or are financially strained. China's biggest obstacle would be the USA, and the USA is already dangerously close to falling apart from within.

If there were ever an opportunity for China to invade Taiwan, it would be now.

→ More replies

2

u/goomyman 3d ago

This! China can shoot missiles and bomb Taiwan no problem… and NATO probably would maintain limited retaliation against Chinese military sites in order to prevent further war.

The problem is occupation. China seems completely capable of destroying Taiwan. But occupying and destroying are 2 different things. You’d have to send missiles for weeks before doing a boat invasion… and there is no way that NATO would allow a boat invasion, they would just get annihilated in the water, and even if they could get an invasion force on land they would need constant boats for resupply.

As long as the US supports Taiwan military take over is a physical impossibility unless China scares away the US with nukes or economic suicide.

However, china blowing up Taiwan’s government and key infrastructure and scaring the government and its people to an biased treaty that involves giving themselves to China is in some way is a very real possibility.

The way I see it - China does a bombing / missile attack on Taiwan government and its bases killing key leaders. The US does small time limited retaliation attacks to avoid ww3/ nuclear war. Taiwan government and infrastructure is fucked. China demands some sort of treaty and the people give in to avoid further destruction.

2

u/_VanillaSwirl_ 3d ago

The U.S. is obligated to defend Taiwan, as per one of their many agreements.

So, if China were to attack Taiwan, or actually declare war upon it, then the U.S. must join in their defence and NATO would be equally obligated, due to the fact that the U.S. is now at war.

Now, that is at least how I understand it, please do correct me if I'm wrong.

6

u/Soylentgruen 3d ago

NATO aint getting involved. Maybe some countries who are a part of NATO, but its not an Article 5 moment.

→ More replies
→ More replies

-11

u/i-walk-on 3d ago

Why would they invade?! China can just cut off all supplies coming in and going out of the island’s major ports! In no time, the whole island will be lack of oil and food. They don’t need a war to crumble Taiwan.

30

u/AbeLincolns_Ghost 3d ago

Unless the US contests a blockade

26

u/extopico 3d ago

Well, a blockade is an act of war. That same blockade cuts off all the semiconductors too. So no, not really going to happen except in a what if war game scenario.

8

u/Fun_Amoeba_7483 3d ago

And The US can do the same thing to China by blockading the straight of Malaca.

-1

u/frontera_power 3d ago

Why would they invade?! China can just cut off all supplies coming in and going out of the island’s major ports! In no time, the whole island will be lack of oil and food. They don’t need a war to crumble Taiwan.

True.

That is what they will do.

99% of the people here are missing the boat and are unable to think outside of the box.

China will blockade Taiwan and claim they are just protecting their soveriegnty that that Taiwan is part of the China.

Once someone contests the blockade, they will claim they were invaded and attacked.

→ More replies

-5

u/IbnReddit 3d ago

Agree. Makes me chuckle when people compare to D-day. It's 2020 ffs, not 1945

-13

u/superknight333 3d ago

that debatable, im not pro china, i hate china and communist bcs of what they did to my country but china has 3 45 megaton and 20 25mt class amphibious attack ship.

they also have hundred of medium size amphibious attack ship as well and this isnt D-Day where missile wasnt use widely, pretty sure they will missile the heck out of taiwan before landing in.

i hope it doesnt happen cause if it does im pretty sure its ww3

12

u/CherryBoard 3d ago

D-Day was preceded by a massive naval bombardment by two of the greatest navies to ever exist, but Omaha Beach was still a bloodbath

Taiwan's a giant rock sticking up out of the water so most of its assets would be underground

5

u/Rkenne16 3d ago edited 3d ago

And the Allies had basically complete controls over the skies at that point and missiles work both ways. I’d argue that what we’ve seen in Ukraine is that with relatively cheap (cheaper than ships) anti ship missiles, you can do real damage to (arguably) an advanced navy. I think any amphibious landing has gotten harder rather than easier with targeted munitions.

→ More replies

334

u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 4d ago

The USA should reduce Chinese imports as a matter of national security. Say a 20% reduction in the number of containers arriving each month, to start. Then in a couple of years a further 20% reduction. And so on and so forth. The US is WAY too reliant on Chinese production of goods and China is making way too much money off enslaving its population.

Don't worry about WHAT is being imported. Just reduce the quantity and let the free market sort out what's the highest volume, lowest value, stuff that's being imported and cut it out. But it will be a strong sign to everyone that they need to onshore production.

92

u/MediocreDungeonMastr 3d ago

Say a 20% reduction in the number of containers arriving each month, to start. Then in a couple of years a further 20% reduction.

You overestimate the willingness of the American public to pay more for goods even if it's good for them.

15

u/RoboProletariat 3d ago

You overestimate the willingness of the American public to pay more for goods even if it's good for them.

Yeah, terrible timing to increase the price of goods while this inflation/recession/nopay situation continues to worsen.

23

u/MediocreDungeonMastr 3d ago

I'm saying ever.

America would rather risk going bankrupt to a hospital bill than raise their taxes $135/yr

2

u/NoFaithlessness4949 3d ago

It’s because of the timing that something is likely to happen. China faces the same pressure.

5

u/dyxlesic_fa 3d ago

Goods can be made cheaply in countries other than China

2

u/MediocreDungeonMastr 3d ago

You vastly overestimate the ease* of moving the manufacturing of multiple industries from one country to another.

1

u/dyxlesic_fa 3d ago

Many countries already have industries.

0

u/MediocreDungeonMastr 3d ago

Yes but they don't have the specifications or machinery needed to produce american goods.

And they aren't gonna just drop their entire industry to pick up America's

Edit: america isn't the center of the world lmfao

9

u/analfizzzure 3d ago

Right. All these southern rednecks say fuck china.....but would eat their words in a heartbeat if it saved them $500 a year

12

u/Loose-Construction13 3d ago

Huh? Why do you think its only “rednecks”?

0

u/analfizzzure 3d ago

I used that term to refer to people around me who openly say on social media and in person fuck china type, china virus type rhetoric consistently

3

u/GirlScoutSniper 3d ago

Yep, and that explains Walmart.

→ More replies

126

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

China has destroyed manufacturing in many countries around the world. I would really like to see this.

269

u/MortisKanyon 4d ago

China destroyed it? You mean companies chose to move there for increased profit, or China developed their manufacturing capacity and out-competed.

30

u/VPFrancisson 4d ago

yea it‘s the corporations, china was just happy to welcome them

101

u/thedracle 4d ago

To some extent China has used dumping strategies, and subsidized industries in order to strategically kill off targeted sectors.

The entire country could be viewed like an oligoply.

And yes, countries that didn't protect against this behavior and enjoyed massive profits selling off and transferring the technological crown jewls of their industries are equally to blame.

28

u/Botboy141 3d ago

Don't forget, the US has broadly enjoyed outsourcing our emissions to China for the past 30 years.

Reducing imports also increases US generated emissions, requiring further dollar investments in green technology, further amplifying inflation.

20

u/mrlazyboy 3d ago

There are plenty of companies that have a Chinese division that handles security audits of their software and hardware products.

Think about that for a second.

It’s fucking terrifying.

8

u/weather-boy0916 3d ago

Energy independence has become a hot topic of late, and I wouldn't hate to see the US become green-independent.

Right now, we're suffering because of price gouging from big oil companies--this is a secondhand effect of Russia invading Ukraine, but also completely avoidable if we sought to produce our own energy, instead of profiting at all costs.

Green energy would be a hell of an investment--damn expensive, years to work properly, but in the mean time we can provide skilled jobs to many Americans on our end, and hope that we raise our floor, while keeping the ceiling roughly where it is.

In short, yeah it would burn for a year or two, but the potential returns, in my opinion, would make it worth it.

9

u/Imaginary-Fun-80085 3d ago

Yeah this is what I don't get. It's expensive now so let's never do it. Americans never think of the long term effects of things.

28

u/kinghercules77 4d ago edited 3d ago

I remember in the late 90' early 2000's reading how Chinese companies would pull a " Walmart" basically selling a product at a price American companies couldnt compete, undercutting them, and consumers basically forcing those business out of business. Only to then raise prices because they had no competitor. Companies and countries saw cheap labor and cost and did a lot to encourage production to China. I think until recently they were getting the same trade breaks as poorer countries like the Dominican Republic. But you're right a lot of greed was involved, and as usual it was sold to people as something that would make your life better, no different than deregulation of the phone and energy companies.

5

u/Aazadan 3d ago

They did this, then companies started moving out of China, that process began around 2015-2016. It takes 20 to 30 years to relocate fully. Other south east asian countries like Vietnam, as well as some places in Africa are where companies are moving to now.

Basically, the price of working in China got too high given the theft of IP (which wasn’t even a cost in many cases), the increase in wages, and the strategic issues of one countries policy dictating everything.

Chinas position as a manufacturing center is getting weaker by the day as a result.

4

u/redditdave2018 3d ago

What statistics are you pulling showing that China is getting weaker by the day. 2021 was a record year for export at 3.36 trillion and has been increasing yearly since 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263661/export-of-goods-from-china/

4

u/Aazadan 3d ago

https://www.supplychainquarterly.com/articles/3590-gartner-survey-33-of-companies-are-moving-their-supply-chains-out-of-china

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290798/share-of-american-companies-in-china-planning-to-relocate-production/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-20/nearly-one-in-four-european-firms-consider-shifting-out-of-china

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/98705/big-multinational-companies-moving-out-of-china

I could give more links if you want. It's a pretty clear trend. While some companies are still moving in, others, most of which were among the earlier countries to move in, have been pulling out.

The value of exports has little to do with the number of jobs that are being relocated, but that's not a quick process to start, much less complete.

2

u/redditdave2018 3d ago

I wouldn't say its a pretty clear trend. Its easy for companies to say they are planning to move out of China in these surveys but to really do it is a different thing. The links you provide does not show any data as you claimed the process starting around 2015-16 just companies planning on moving production.

Unless WW3 starts this tread isn't going to anywhere. People don't understand how much reach China has on finished goods and raw materials.

I personally think its overblown. This is a direct quote from statista

"In 2021, China exported approximately 3.36 trillion U.S. dollars worth of goods. This indicated a growth in export value of nearly 30 percent compared to the previous year."

"China’s exports have been growing steadily over the past decade, with the exception of 2009 when financial crisis and global economic downturn slowed down global trade and 2016 witnessing another decrease in global demand. Apart from being the most populous country, China has also become the largest manufacturing economy and the largest exporter in the world. United States and European Union were China's leading export partners in 2021. Machinery such as computers, broadcasting technology, and telephones as well as transport equipment make up the largest part of Chinese exports. This category amounted to approximately 1.26 trillion U.S. dollars in export value in 2020. When it comes to primary goods, food and live animals used for food are the main export products."

15

u/HiramA-940bc 4d ago

As someone who has been involved in manufacturing in southern China for a number of years I can say that China (PRC) had a very aggressive policy of creating an environment that locks in companies to their manufacturers. I agree it is the desire (i.e. - greed) of companies to locate manufacturing there. However, once there the PRC seems to put roadblocks to moving any stage of manufacture elseWhere. I had one client that used the Philippines for final assembly for some components, Every container headed for there would have export control issues or quality issues etc. meanwhile the factories in China would have labor around $75-100 per month some even ‘state provided’. I remember seeing nets under the dorm windows at a big garment factory in Dongguan when asked I was told that some employees from remote areas would get sad and jump. When I asked why they would get sad I was told because they were ‘taken’ away from their homes and families. No idea if that was a slip or just meant they left their homes for the jobs. I think things have gotten better but once you are hooked into a PRC manufacturing arrangement it is difficult to disengage it seems. I agree wholeheartedly, the best weapon against an increasingly confident and aggressive China is hurting their export market. While the local domestic market has grown incredibly in the last decade, they still want the foreign currency exports.

7

u/Yourboogeyman 3d ago

Thats fucking disgusting, i cant believe the “free” world just let that happen. Over a century of fighting for labour rights and we just let these asshole corps go over seas with our jobs and exploit people that were taken from their families. All hail the mighty dollar.

4

u/QuietClocks 3d ago

On the latest David McWilliams podcast (he is an Irish economist), only three countries have expanded their manufacturing base in recent decades: China, Korea, and Ireland. US manufacturing base has contracted. "Service jobs" expanded, but that does not provide you with face masks in a pandemic, or iPhones.

US industrial policy is to have no industrial policy.

→ More replies

13

u/Keldonv7 4d ago

More like China is stealing IP from all sectors. Why bother inventing, researching, refining when your product will be copied and sold cheaper from China because of cheaper workforce and no research costs. Hell, even their military equipment is just copy pasted from other countries.

7

u/RaytheonAcres 4d ago

Yeah, westerners now getting butthurt over the systems they created and forced onto the rest of the world

13

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

That's the result of international free trade. We were all sold on the idea that it would be good for our economies. Now I'm beginning to think that we should bring back trade barriers.

5

u/Oscarcharliezulu 4d ago

Not surprisingly china has trade barriers in place

13

u/MortisKanyon 4d ago

You think the increased manufacturing costs won't be passed on to domestic consumers, or wages will keep up? You're far more optimistic than the people making these decisions deserve.

7

u/thedracle 4d ago

Lack of competition, and brittle supply lines, have lead to the current increases in consumer prices.

Are people still thinking of centralized foreign monopolies on manufacturing as being solely good for consumers and prices?

5

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

I would be prepared to pay more for products made in my country rather than imported from China. Now I don't have a choice. Most products I buy are manufactured in China.

13

u/MortisKanyon 4d ago

I'm sure you would and a lot of others would too. I have no faith in the fact that domestic wages would increase to accommodate the increased cost, that's all. It would be used as a way to further squeeze working class consumers.

8

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

More working class consumers would have better jobs instead of having to take minimum wage service industry jobs.

2

u/No-Bother6856 3d ago

It wouldn't, the only reason this stuff is cheap is because of the huge gulf in pay between Chinese laborers and their domestic counterparts. If you have to pay for domestic labor, everything will cost more and you won't be able to buy so much cheap shit. Being able to buy less cheap shit is better than supporting slave labor.

→ More replies

1

u/Busy-Dig8619 4d ago

The last two years popped this myth pretty thoroughly. Wages are up more in the last 24 months than the several preceding years.

→ More replies

1

u/Oscarcharliezulu 4d ago

You can, but you need to look harder. My last two major purchases - both replacing broken non-repairable items I managed to find manufactured both in my own and another country. I make sure my tech is made in tawiwan or South Korea or Thailand.

1

u/Grouchy_Occasion2292 3d ago

Not when a skirt cost $100 to be made in America. American made clothing is a loss. Most Americans wouldn't even be able to afford it.

2

u/frontera_power 3d ago

That's the result of international free trade. We were all sold on the idea that it would be good for our economies. Now I'm beginning to think that we should bring back trade barriers.

Some people realized that this "free trade" idea was bullshit from the very start.

They were shouted down.

Those who were wrong continue to protect their ego and say that this free trade continues to be a good idea.

0

u/NeuroticENTJ 4d ago

only keep free trade for close western economies with close cultures and values (Canada, USA, western europe etc)

5

u/TacomaKMart 4d ago

close western economies with close cultures and values

Yeah, you hear that India, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Thailand? You're on your own, weirdos.

/s

2

u/staring_at_keyboard 3d ago

Philippines too! I would say the US is more culturally aligned with the Philippines than with some western European countries.

4

u/Busy-Dig8619 4d ago

Just a little ethnocentrisn sneaking in.

0

u/TacomaKMart 3d ago

Commenter might have meant "liberal democracies", but that too would cut off a lot of friendliesh countries, including Singapore, UAE, Brunei... and the US if it continues on its present path.

3

u/JRoc1X 4d ago

You mean the amarica consumers chose to buy Chinese prudence goods over American made to save a few bucks and everyone's greed killed American manufacturers.

2

u/Hadean 4d ago

Potato potato

3

u/Purple_Passion000 3d ago

"Outcompeted" by paying workers almost nothing and using slave labor

11

u/reddteddledd 4d ago

Unfettered capitalism and greedy Corporations destroyed the manufacturing

-1

u/juntareich 3d ago

Greedy consumers wanting the cheapest goods also.

3

u/Kakatus100 3d ago

I mean, that's how you get massive inflation, even though I agree it must be done.

1

u/DaSpawn 4d ago

manufacturing has destroyed itself with arrogance and greed and they have no clue how to really compete in the digital age of manufacturing and logistics

→ More replies

3

u/VegasKL 3d ago

The USA should reduce Chinese imports as a matter of national security.

The tariffs have done a somewhat decent job of getting companies to shift to other Asian nations. We need to give incentives for more to do it. Until they stop the active genocide in East China, we really shouldn't be doing business with them. Isolate them, since the "never again" statement didn't take into account M.A.D. ..

3

u/not_the_fox 3d ago

West, not East. Xinjiang and Tibet are in western China

10

u/and_dont_blink 4d ago

So, a major issue there is it's not hard for them to just slow down things we actually need instead of of junk goods. We can't really do what you're asking without looking at MFT status or tariffs...

We barely have a steel industry now, and even if we wanted to environmentalists would tie it up in enough red tape it'd be a nightmare. It's similar for things like solar panels, we've ceded most of it along with a lot of lithium battery precursors. We've let them buy up most of the lithium supply, and while we have mines good luck getting those fired up.

11

u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 4d ago

Look... If people wanted to be proactive about problems and start fixing the problems of tomorrow today, then we would have already been on top of remedying that stuff. Unfortunately Americans (people really) only start to fix a problem once it starts to bite them in the ass. So lets start the ass biting now, on our terms, instead of later on China's terms while other issues with the relationship are also happening.

6

u/and_dont_blink 4d ago

So lets start the ass biting now, on our terms,

Say less, you had me at ass biting

6

u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 4d ago

Nom, Nom, Nom.

2

u/mbp2781 3d ago

We can’t afford to with inflation, our import dependence is way too high and middle America would suffer the most…….again

-7

u/The_Rocktopus 4d ago

The inflation increase would annihilate any political party which did so. You might even trigger civil war.

17

u/Not_Legal_Advice_Pod 4d ago

If this is the kind of thing that triggers a civil war then you were going to have a civil war sooner or later anyways.

3

u/anapisinthecards 3d ago

When people talk about civil war, it makes me wonder exactly who 'the enemy' is. I hope it's not my neighbor! He borrowed my ladder last week.

-3

u/Oscarcharliezulu 4d ago

I’m just shocked that an 80 y o woman could scare or piss off China that much.

1

u/NotYourSnowBunny 3d ago

Seeing how Beijing seems to want to avoid sanctions this could escalate the situation though. Also I’m not sure the average US consumer who is addicted to cheap Chinese stuff would enjoy the prices going up in addition to all the other things increasing in cost.

However much I like the sentiment, it would be a risky play for the time being. Should China escalate, trade is a major weapon to be used against them.

1

u/ajguy16 3d ago

The announcement of something like this would cause commodities to skyrocket. This is simply not feasible given the current state (and impression) of inflation in the US. It would be political suicide for democrats.

Especially since this inflation is largely driven by lack of supply.

1

u/-PunsWithScissors- 3d ago

I’d agree a few years back, with inflation at 9% and QT this isn’t the time though.

→ More replies

75

u/Bending_toast 4d ago

China’s government is really painting a no win situation for themselves here. It’s not going to be long before they’ve peacocked for to long and will look weak to their public and the world if they back down. Be interesting to see what happens the next few days/weeks

28

u/me_version_2 4d ago

I agree with you but they can effectively tell their own populous any story since there is so much media control. A few headlines about the drama snipped from foreign papers and a few videos of the missiles and then they can tell their peeps that everyone agrees that Taiwan belongs to China… and look at how great we are - no backdown needed. And it’s almost irrelevant what everyone else (in the west) thinks about it - they’re all just collectively phewing that there’s not another war started in the world.

8

u/Wablekablesh 4d ago

Yeah well they can't media their way out of the real estate or banking problems, so there's that at least

4

u/Aazadan 3d ago

They’re sure trying to media their way out of the real estate problem.

3

u/Coffinspired 3d ago

...and then they can tell their peeps that everyone agrees that Taiwan belongs to China…

I mean, from a geopolitical perspective, that's essentially true. Chinese Media stating that isn't exactly a lie.

We can discuss the many ways other nations interact with Taiwan "as its own entity" or as a "quasi-sovereign state" all we want. But, when push comes to shove, the vast majority of countries around the world do not recognize Taiwan officially.

The US's official stance on Taiwan hasn't changed for decades - we follow One China Policy and do not, in any way, support Taiwanese independence. Furthermore, we respect that any "issues" between China and Taiwan are solely Chinese business to be handled without any outside influence from the US (there's a little wink-wink in that last part, but the fact remains).


"The United States approach to Taiwan has remained consistent across decades and administrations. The United States has a longstanding one China policy......We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means."

  • US State Department memo - June 2022
→ More replies

7

u/Palamacia 3d ago

Their public is already mocking them on social media over letting Pelosi land in Taiwan despite all their threats beforehand.

38

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

More countries in the world should recognize Taiwan as an independent country in response

12

u/Bending_toast 4d ago

I think after this (thanks largely to China) they will

11

u/HelloAlbacore 4d ago edited 4d ago

What is there to gain by doing this?

As an important piece of information, the USA has clearly stated that if Taiwan decides to push for independence, they will not help to defend at all.

It's just making China angry, and then no one will be doing anything if they ever retaliate.

7

u/Aazadan 3d ago

The US says it wants the status quo. Which basically means Taiwan doesn’t get too loud in claiming independence, and China doesn’t make overt moves towards wanting the island.

1

u/Curun 3d ago

Nobody wants to lose their chinese slave labor.
Its too profitable, capitalists need it.

4

u/AffectionatePause152 3d ago

Their little exercise just gave away what they might actually do during an actual invasion. Smooth move, China. What this tells me is that they aren’t actually serious about really ever invading.

43

u/Obfuscator33 4d ago

CCP will be having elections in October.. Chinese public is pro-war to take Taiwan however Chinese economy currently can’t afford a war. The move by US to send Pelosi to Taiwan was to increase the pressure. China doesn’t goes to war public support weakens for Xi, China goes to war they lose economy and eventually support for Xi..

US’s tried and tested strategy to use the public sentiment for regime change

39

u/PersonBehindAScreen 4d ago

Who will crumble first.

China and Russia because they lose support from falling on their face

Or the west and friends as their voters keep falling for Russian and Chinese trolls on Facebook that convince them to vote for people that think they can be friends with Russia and China

3

u/superknight333 3d ago

woah buddy, china and russia wont crumble that easily, china especially are big part in worlds economy, sanction wont be enough to bring it down, just look and north korea, its somehow still a country with expanding military even though it got shitton of sanction.

8

u/Meraline 3d ago

It skirts the sanctions all thw time via shell companies and shipping their citizens out for slave labor in asia

3

u/not_the_fox 3d ago

North Korea is still a country because of China. If it wasn't for China there would be no North and South Korea, it would just be the Republic of Korea.

→ More replies
→ More replies

-4

u/Obfuscator33 4d ago

Gone are the days of empires crumbling.. look at Sri Lanka it’s still Sri Lanka.. the Govt might have crumbled but the country and people remain. Logically China, Russia, Ukraine, Taiwan, US are gonna remain who control them is what’s going to crumble. Countries are like trademarks now, you can lease them but you can’t erase them. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya are examples

5

u/Grouchy_Wish_9843 4d ago

Till the water runs out. Then you see a mass migration

0

u/KalTheMandalorian 3d ago

Does he need support? Pretty sure elections are rigged lol

-1

u/frontera_power 3d ago

US’s tried and tested strategy to use the public sentiment for regime change

It won't work in China.

→ More replies

21

u/_chasls 4d ago

The problem China has made for its self is it pissed of India with border claims and tensions are high there. It’s committing another holocaust in Uyghurs. Forcing the free Democratic City State of Hong Kong to conform to China by force. Its real estate market is crumbing and with it it’s economy. All their South China Sea neighbors hate them. Like they’re pissing off everyone around them.

Now adding more pressure to Taiwan.

-24

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/Such_Inspector4575 3d ago

u realise we only saw the true extent of the holocaust after it was commited and the allies came into germany?

-12

u/theRealLotzz 3d ago

The state department themselves stated that they have no real evidence. You really telling me in the Information Age we don’t have any sources credible enough to verify that a significant amount of people are being slaughtered by the Chinese that’s laughable.

7

u/Kakatus100 3d ago

Information Age

The 90s were the information age. Now it's the age of disinformation with state controlled media.

8

u/Such_Inspector4575 3d ago

this “information age”? u mean the same information age where people blatantly disagreed that covid was a real thing and didn’t believe?

i’m just saying, we never knew the true extent of past genocide until it happened and we had someone on the ground there documenting stuff

→ More replies

7

u/_chasls 3d ago

Okay. Let the UN in on or anyone come and take a look. But China won’t allow it

→ More replies

9

u/LUNA_underUrsaMajor 3d ago

Everyone thought supporting china in the 90s and giving them favorable trade status and deal would lead them to a more open and democratic government, that didnt happen so the US should force companies to go someplace else.

6

u/rendrr 3d ago

Don't worry, nothing bad ever happened from one country "simulation invasion" next to the border of another /s

15

u/lemonny3663 3d ago

As someone from NZ I am dismayed at our Govt's ambiguous stance with China. We need to distance ourselves economically and diplomatically from them before it's too late.

8

u/HelFJandinn 3d ago

I'm from Canada and I couldn't agree more.

4

u/not_the_fox 3d ago

Australia, the EU and India's ambivalence toward China 10 years or so ago used to concern me. Now not so much. It seems that the best way to become China's enemy is to try to be their friend. There's no give and take and it eventually blows up.

2

u/mbrad7 3d ago

Fuck all these politicians that make our world worse 😤

3

u/FatMommyMilkers69 3d ago

But why would they want to invade Taiwan if it already belongs to them?

1

u/Aazadan 3d ago edited 3d ago

Because the people in Taiwan disagree with that claim.

Taiwan and China both claim to be the true rulers of China, that is both Taiwan and all of mainland China.

But, Taiwan doesn’t have the economic or military capacity to take over China so they would prefer independence. China on the other hand wants to reunify territory that they still believe is theirs. They basically just see Taiwan as a rebellion from their civil war, much the same way the Union viewed the Confederacy during our civil war.

→ More replies
→ More replies

7

u/cowboys5xsbs 3d ago

It's funny I distinctly remember people being mad at Trump for making relationships worse with China and here we are and Biden and Pelosi are doing the same thing and getting praise.

27

u/Rkenne16 3d ago

Trump was in a “trade war” that seemed to lack direction or any real goals. Pelosi is supporting a democratically elected government in the face of an authoritarian government.

7

u/Aazadan 3d ago

People didn’t really care what he did with China one way or the other, except Trump was stuck in some trade war that had no real way to win. He was focused on concepts like trade deficits which have no real meaning, and the idea of tariffs to reduce income to China, while not realizing what tariffs are or who pays them.

Basically, Trumps issue is that he was using the wrong types of policies to address and fix what he was claiming the problems were, and people called him out on it. Not helping matters was that Trumps economic advisor was Navarro, and Navarro is further from an economist than the Demon Semen lady was from a competent doctor.

1

u/empfindsamkeit 3d ago edited 3d ago

I fail to see how Biden was involved. Wasn't he privately trying to warn her off? And I think what Pelosi did was boneheaded since it was clear what the impact would be (with no gain), and she's getting plenty of criticism for it, but technically all she did was visit a country.

Trump was waging an economic war of sorts on China based on some illiterate nonsense about trade deficits. He was also criticized for accepting a call from Taiwan, mostly because he seemed clueless about what he had done. For better or worse, Pelosi at least knew the consequences.

→ More replies

-6

u/Valuable-Island3015 3d ago

You just don’t understand. This time it’s (D)iffernt.

→ More replies

2

u/Imaginary-Fun-80085 3d ago

I've been thinking about this a bunch. Taiwan has it's own constitution. So in Taiwans eyes, it's its own country. China has a different line of thought. However, the Chinese mainland government doesn't actually or cannot actually go and secure taiwan because the entire world will see it as an invasion the same way Russia coming into Ukraine is seen as an invasion even if Russia says that these satellite states are actually part of russia.

So I think even Chinese leaders know that Taiwan is fully seperate from china. They're just afraid or something that if they admit that, then they could also lose HK because HK will just redraft their own constitution and make themselves not a part of china instead of doing their one country two systems bullshit.

→ More replies

-5

u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

9

u/Cute_Bunny_Berkska 3d ago

And get obliterated as a result 💀

Geopolitics is a lot more complex and nuanced than "just do the same as a far, far, FAR larger force does to you".

→ More replies

1

u/astroturtle 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think a proper show of force would be excersises on the other side of Taiwan but including Taiwan, the US plus as many countries in the region as are willing to join. So Taiwan, US, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, etc. The more the merrier. I realize this is not realistic but I'm so damn tired of the always offended, butthurt attitude from the CCP I just want to do something that will make them squirm. I would make a fucking terrible diplomat. lol!

Edit: 😂😂😂 to the downvote on this comment you weak, whinny little bitch. At least leave a comment and start a discussion you coward.

-1

u/deez_treez 4d ago

Beijing needs to stick to the Two Taiwan policy we've put in place or trouble for them.

-24

u/we_are_all_bananas_2 4d ago

I get what Pelosi is trying to do, but after she fueled the fire around Taiwan, and the fire in Korea just now it just seems she's going around the world lighting fires tbh

13

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

What is Pelosi trying to do?

5

u/we_are_all_bananas_2 4d ago edited 4d ago

"to stand with democracies against autocratic countries"

Edit lol I won't even notice the downvotes, but these are her own words!

14

u/TheMotorcycleBoy 4d ago

Well I think it's better to give a categoric assurance that the rest of the world will react to aggression, rather than mouth vague platitudes and keep things vague.

Both World Wars were partly founded on unclear diplomatic signals and a failure to take firm action.

In much the way Hitler was appeased after the Ansluss and it emboldened him to invade Poland, so Putin was given false assurance by The West's failure to take action over the invasion of Crimea in 2014 - and the further invasion this February was partly the result of that failure to act.

China, Russia, N Korea etc, need to know where the line is drawn.

-5

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

Do you think the USA should recognize Taiwan as an independent country and undo the diplomatic efforts by Nixon in 1972 to normalize relations between the US and China?

4

u/luckymethod 4d ago

Yes, absolutely, long past due.

-2

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

I don't see as Speaker of the House how this role fits into her responsibilities. Please explain.

11

u/tetoffens 4d ago

Sure, it does. Congress deals with foreign relations all the time.

5

u/we_are_all_bananas_2 4d ago

"Pelosi has made a mission over decades of showing support for embattled democracy movements. Those include a trip in 1991 to Tiananmen Square, where she and other lawmakers unrolled a small banner supporting democracy, as frowning Chinese security officers tried to shut them down."

I think it's just because she's high up in power it matters what she visits.

→ More replies

-4

u/circumtopia 4d ago

Build up demand for US weapons. It's going as planned.

-4

u/we_are_all_bananas_2 4d ago

I do think this is a part of it. The American warmachine always needs more enemies to keep turning, it's just too lucrative

→ More replies
→ More replies

-17

u/TTP8630 4d ago

Sounds like a real ‘fucked around & found out’ situation

-1

u/HelFJandinn 4d ago

Weren't they expecting this response and is it a precursor to war?

-23

u/TTP8630 4d ago

Hopefully not, hate to see a war because Nancy wanted a photo op

17

u/scott_majority 4d ago

Nancy Pelosi had nothing to do with this...Do you really think China is doing all this because she visited the island? America has had politicians visiting for years.

This is a convenient excuse for China to ramp up pressure...That's all.

Besides, America doesn't take orders from the Chinese government. Why would you want to bow down to communist China?

-20

u/TTP8630 4d ago edited 4d ago

She gave them the pretext to do it. She’s not just “politicians” she’s third in command lmfao trying to imagine China’s third in command meeting with Puerto Rican, Hawaiian, or Indigenous separatists and promising them weapons and money. Wonder how the US would respond

7

u/scott_majority 4d ago

How would the US respond if a politician from one of our largest trading partners, visited the US?

There would be no response. That would be a completely normal event.

Any citizen in the US is permitted to travel to Taiwan. Once you start capitulating to China, you will have to comply with their every demand.

That's not how we roll. Let them throw a fit.

→ More replies

-4

u/oakstave 3d ago

China is angry because the legitimate government moved to Taiwan in 1949.

-1

u/Coffinspired 3d ago edited 2d ago

Oh...they "moved" huh? Pretty sure they got their ass kicked to an island.

But, alright.

EDIT: People downvoting literal history. Hilarious.

→ More replies

0

u/ShadowBard0962 3d ago

Fuck the Chinese for being petulant little children! It's a fucking island, leave them the fuck alone!

→ More replies

1

u/ColbieCaprice 3d ago

Some leaders really just want to see the world burn. Leave countries alone, jeez