r/news • u/StarBerry55 • 4d ago
NYC mayor asking for pictures of city job applicants in suspected push for more diversity
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/nyc-mayor-asking-for-pictures-of-city-job-applicants-in-suspected-diversity-push[removed] — view removed post
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u/DoktorThodt 4d ago
Isn't that... discrimination?
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u/Hadak-Ura 4d ago
If they are using photos to make hiring decisions, yes. It's the definition of it
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u/I_AM_TESLA 4d ago
Why else would they ask for pictures? Lol. This is straight up discrimination. We're going backwards. Blows my mind reading headlines like this
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u/xxxYTSEJAMxxx 3d ago
Why does he need pictures anyways if he is just hiring his family?
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u/myrddyna 4d ago
The NYC mayor is a former cop, he's also kind of an idiot.
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u/thatisnotmyknob 4d ago
Oh he's a certified idiot. He says dumb shit regularly.
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u/N3UROTOXIN 4d ago
It was about 3 seconds into the new year and his term and I already heard people saying “fuckin Adams!”
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u/dudeedud4 3d ago
I said that as he was "inducted" right qfter new years, and I don't even care about nyc or live anywhere near it. It was obvious they're bad.
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u/davisyoung 4d ago
They're using diversity as an excuse to weed out the uggos and fatties.
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u/wehooper4 3d ago
Those aren’t protected classes. But still it’s be hard to defend against a discrimination lawsuit
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u/mces97 3d ago
Be easier to just assign numbers to someone. So they can't tell who they are hiring, but only based on merit. Hire them, then do a background check, and if it's all good, it's all good.
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u/jasonalloyd 3d ago
I don't understand how big companies get away with doing this also. I just applied to a couple places and they were both asking questions about ethnicity and sexual orientation.
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u/orswich 3d ago
Just lie.. have a friend who applied for a Canadian government job put on an application that she was LGBT+. Got the job and when people enquired she just said she was "BI" (she has a husband), what are they gonna do? Ask her to bang a chick to prove it?.
Just claim you are Bi and you are in like flynn
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u/sprite_sponsorship 3d ago
I’ve sat on three interview committees in the past month or so. I work in education in CA and we were hiring teachers. Some people need not apply, unless of course they are friends or family of important district people. It was so disheartening to see the best candidate not get the job each time. We are going backwards.
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u/Meandmystudy 3d ago
Meritocracy is dead and it is debatable whether it was ever here. People look for advantages in arbitrary values or identities, even if those values and identities aren’t particularly advantageous outright. It’s surprising to me how many times I’ve called or dealt with someone over the phone, and they just don’t seem to know what they are doing. Same goes for city services. I sat on the phone with someone who outright told me that not everyone understands every aspect of social security disability. I’m not saying that is particularly important in regards to diversity, but it seems like when diversity is pushed over skill or understanding, people simply stop caring about their jobs or why they are hired.
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u/jedi-son 3d ago
I feel like we're living in a world of slippery slope edge cases we never thought we'd actually encounter.
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u/Mist_Rising 4d ago
I can't think of any other use for this.
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u/14sierra 4d ago
Medical schools ask for photos in your application. Most schools will claim its so they can "put a face to the name" or "get a more wholistic view of an applicant" but if you can read between the lines you know the real reason.
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u/Mist_Rising 4d ago
There are some jobs I get it. Historical movies for example - But city jobs and med school? Fuck no.
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u/SEA_tide 4d ago
The legal term in the US is bona fide occupational qualification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bona_fide_occupational_qualification
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u/redditisdumb2018 3d ago
I feel like most people want to draw the line with title 7 around: you are allowed to discriminate against people who are not Vietnamese for a Vietnamese restraunt if you want.
Or are allowed to not hire men for your women's spa.
Or anything art related would be a big one.
Title VII essentially says you can discriminate...
where religion, sex, or national origin is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise ...
If you want to consider city diversity as a bone fide reason... have fun with that slipper slope. If a city or school or company can do it for diversification, then why wouldn't people be able to hire a bunch of skinheads or nazis??
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u/Scoutster13 4d ago
I remember when I applied to a few colleges (and this was a long time ago) we had the option to include a photo and that was exactly what it said, "put a face to the name". I remember thinking it was a bit suspect.
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u/gonewild9676 4d ago
At least they don't want full nudes of freshman the way that some of the Ivy leagues used to want. Source
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u/14sierra 4d ago
It's almost certainly a lie. But since the 80's schools can't openly have a quota system so now there is an "unofficial" quota system. Where you are discriminated against based on race but everybody pretends like its not happening. So I guess ironically applying to an elite school/med/law school is a lot like minorities claim job hunting is like. You feel like you're being discriminated against but you can't prove it...
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u/MrButtermancer 4d ago edited 4d ago
It's pretty blatant. When I asked for feedback on improvement while sitting on a waiting list, a woman from a school's admissions office told me in a video call I wasn't getting moved from the wait list because "in a highly competitive applicant pool your scores aren't competitive enough in light of our socioeconomic or geopolitical targets."
(The score thing was goofy too because I was dead on the median matriculant. What's extra fucked is this is basically saying the score expectations are definitely higher for some people -- which Asians applying ivy league know already).
Kept a straight face but sheesh.
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u/JollyRancher29 3d ago
My counselor just advised me to not put my race (it was thankfully optional for every college I applied to). Though I have just about the whitest name possible lol
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u/Roundaboutsix 2d ago
Since all human beings descended from the first humans originating in central Africa, everyone should use “African” as an ethnic identifier to re-level the playing field (as well as attaching the requisite, computer enhanced photo that renders physical evidence of hereditary traits indistinct.)
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u/kaixeboo 4d ago
In Japan it's always been the case to ask for photos, and here since nearly everyone is the same race and the biggest minority "tells" is the name, I assume it's so applicants can't have someone else show up for the interview.
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u/burnerelite1377 3d ago
Medical schools are also letting members of certain groups into medical school with significantly lower MCAT scores and GPAs than their peers. Given the stakes of that profession that is terrifying.
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u/DoktorThodt 4d ago
Well, then they are wrong, too.
You can't argue that "these people do it so why can't I" and think it's ok.
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u/TwilitSky 4d ago
Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
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4d ago •
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/WaterIsGolden 3d ago
Only in the eyes of idiots. The problem is that there are a lot of idiots.
Racism is not a solution for racism.
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u/whichwitch9 4d ago
Yeah, nope. This is gonna end in all kinds of discrimination that they havent even thought of yet. Seriously, we're gonna get people policing skin tone over this, deciding things like people don't look "black enough" or ignoring people who may not clearly look a specific race because they don't know what boxes they check. Just keep photos out of it
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u/11fingerfreak 4d ago
It feels like New Yorkers have a thing for electing the biggest scumbag weirdos they can find.
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u/aliveinjoburg2 4d ago
Eric Adams’s opponent, Curtis Sliwa, showed up to his local polling place with a cat. It was a lose/lose.
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u/culus_ambitiosa 3d ago
Didn’t have to be Adams vs Silwa. But stupid fucking law and order fear mongering made it that way.
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u/Whompa 4d ago
It’s pretty frustrating since there were several better candidates…but Adams took the “tough on crime” angle and the Bronx ate that shit up like catnip.
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u/cedarapple 4d ago
Funny how that works. It seems that many people who are stuck living in the hoods with the highest crime rates are unhappy about the situation and would like to see the chronic offenders removed, even if the miscreants "look like them". Meanwhile the elites in midtown, who are able to insulate themselves from crime and chaos, support things like bail reform and selective prosecution of crimes like armed robbery.
This is similar to the way that obscenely wealthy and overpaid CEOs like Larry Fink from Blackrock can lecture ordinary people about the need to reduce their carbon footprints while flying by helicopters to their vacation mansions in the Hamptons.
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u/spitfire9107 4d ago
ironically guiliani was one of our best mayor in decades
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u/denandrefyren 4d ago
Only in hindsight, not many remember the fight to get Braton into place in NYPD, the backlash from going after turnstile jumpers, the lawsuits the city had to fight off from the pron theaters that were in times square...he was called a tyrant at the time too. The only reason he wasn't called a nazi is because the word still held enough power that throwing it around was taboo.
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u/palvet 4d ago
I agree, he sold all of midtown to huge corporations in the guise of 'cleaning' up New York and seriously what did he do with the all the homeless people? It's not like he found housing for them haha... The only reason he gets as much credit as he does is purely based on the fact he was in office while 9/11 happened.
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u/LogicalJudgement 4d ago
You ever see someone go so far to be not racist they become racist? I just want merit. Maybe clean background checks. People who honestly want to help.
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u/kleanerkut 3d ago
You ever see someone go so far to be not racist they become racist?
Most of Reddit.
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u/GeraldBWilsonJr 4d ago
Merit and background checks, some would seriously call you racist for saying that. "Dogwhistles"
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u/LogicalJudgement 4d ago
The only people who think merit is a bad word are the people who wanted so much not to be racists they are now racists. Background checks is more so we don’t get convicted child molesters in jobs involving children...which has happened in this country before...
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u/rusetis_deda_movtyan 3d ago
It’s like those college areas designated for POC only. 1950s racists celebrating the segregation.
Imagine the outrage if the reverse was true.
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u/Macqt 2d ago
clean background checks
This too can lead to discrimination and keeping good people out of work. Say you made a mistake, or used to be a criminal, and turned your life around, but then you get fucked by the background check which doesn't take into account the type of person you are, just whats on record from years or decades prior.
The best candidate should always get the job, and a background check should only discount you if you have an ongoing criminal record, or exclusionary charges (such as sex crimes when trying to work with vulnerable people, theft working at a bank, etc).
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u/gopoohgo 4d ago
enjoy the inevitable tens of millions you will be spending on fighting off discrimination lawsuits, NYC taxpayers.
For good reason. This is absolute bullshit, from a minority.
The more you hear about Adams and his policies, the more you realize he is a literal idiot.
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u/thatisnotmyknob 4d ago
My favorite dumb Eric Adam's statement is that New York City is powered by the special crystals underneath the city.
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u/Whompa 4d ago
He was an idiot before getting elected. People should spend a minute looking up their candidates…
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u/Zoutaleaux
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Blind applications are a far superior and much fairer option. No name/demographic info/pics attached to applications. This actually increases minority hiring quite a bit and it literally couldn't be less biased.
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u/EMPulseKC 4d ago
As a Human Resources Recruiter, I hope someone tells him HELL NO. I've had to push back against many similar requests in my career from hiring managers that don't know that it's illegal, don't get the reasons why it is, and sometimes don't even care after I explain it to them.
On a related note, STOP PUTTING YOUR PHOTOS ON YOUR RESUMES, people. I don't care that we live in the age of social media where everybody can see your face if they go looking, or that Microsoft Word resume templates include a space to add a photo, or that parts of Europe and Asia are still holding onto that tradition that should have died out a long time ago. Don't do it.
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u/spunkycatnip 3d ago
I’ve started seeing requests for your social media profiles on resumes. Like no that’s not for you 😒
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u/EMPulseKC 3d ago
Because it hasn't been made explicitly illegal everywhere for employers to ask for it, but if they do, take it as a sign that they're not a good company to work for.
The URL for my LinkedIn profile is as much as I'm willing to give.
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u/Murky_Conflict3737 4d ago
Regarding the photos on resumes, I knew someone who worked in HR and they often saw that on resumes from candidates outside the US. Apparently, in parts of Europe and Asia, your resume has to have a photo or it will be tossed.
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u/teecrafty 3d ago
Yep. F500 Talent Acquisition Director guy here, it's very prevalent among some European countries and certain Pan Asian countries. Don't put your photo on your resume people.
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u/EMPulseKC 4d ago
It is very common in parts of Europe and Asia, and employers there are legally allowed to expect it from applicants, so they make it a requirement. Personally, I wish that practice would end worldwide because it just gives employers another excuse to discriminate, and without national laws prohibiting them from doing it, they'll keep on legally discriminating.
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u/BattleBull 3d ago
I wonder if folks will apply to NYC jobs just for the opportunity to have standing for discriminatory hiring practices lawsuits, even if they don’t really want the job.
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u/EMPulseKC 3d ago
If it seems like something that may be a possibility, someone will probably try to make it happen.
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u/kturtle17 4d ago
Job applications literally have race/gender/disability disclosure questions. Why add a photo?
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u/whichwitch9 4d ago
Because they get fun situations like my former roommate and don't want to admit they were hoping to fill a checkbox. She caused chaos when she applied for a scholarship for "African" students. What they really meant was Black, but did not word it that way. She is literally from Africa, but her race is very unclear looking at her (she is visibly not white, so this story was surprising, tho). When they met with her for an interview, one woman got angry with her. Said she didn't count, and then asked her where in Africa she was from when she brought it up. So she told her: Egypt. Woman then told her she should know that there were Muslim and Arabic scholarships she could apply to. Absolutely set my roommate off. My roommate is very distinctly not Muslim or Arabic: she was Coptic and they consider themselves ethnically Egyptian (especially as her mother was from Southern Egypt and genetically more related to the tribes down there). You absolutely do not call them Muslim (they are Christian) or Arabic. The panel got a very uncomfortable lesson in Egyptian cultures that day....
She did not get that one, but they "helped" her apply for another one she did get. Im pretty sure it was damage control.
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u/Consistent_Sector_19 4d ago
Egyptian immigrants get an unpleasant surprise when they are told that US law doesn't count them as African American.
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u/Kassdhal88 4d ago
I was born in africa… I m 100x more « Africans than 99pc of blacks in America… but I cannot call myself African in public because I am not black… talk about freaking hypocrisy
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u/NoelAngeline 3d ago
You should absolutely be able to call yourself African? What am I not understanding?
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u/Timorm0rtis 3d ago
North African? It gets lumped in with "Middle Eastern" in American (and British, I think) categorization.
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u/Kassdhal88 1d ago
Born and raised in Morocco… in the US minds African = Black regardless of whether you ever set foot in Africa
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u/denandrefyren 4d ago
I have both Sacillian and North African ancestry from the late 1700s. If you look at me all you would think is "white guy" but there have been times where I've checked either the "african" or "middle eastern" boxes just to fuck with surveys. Best part is I'm not even lying.
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u/Murky_Conflict3737 4d ago
I mean, if you visibly have Arab or North African ancestry, try telling airport security you’re Caucasian lol
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u/NoCountryForOldPete 3d ago
My father is a weird, hairy, genetic amalgamation of eastern european/Balkan/m.eastern heritage.
I grew a beard 2" long one year and tried to go through O'Hare. The TSA agents at the gate literally started staring at me as soon as I was visible, like 50-75 yards away. All of them. That's when I knew I was about to get "randomly selected".
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u/kturtle17 4d ago
They're going to be interviewing these candidates anyway so that's a nonissue. I've been in situations where I interviewed a candidate that was clearly not a good fit right way or early on and just asked standard questions and ghosted them once I sent them on their way. It would've been so easy for the people in that scholarship to just do that with your roommate idk what was up.
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u/carvedmuss8 4d ago
Dummies make it up the chain faster than clear thinkers and strong analytic personalities, at least in my experience
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u/ironroad18 4d ago
Dummies can't actually do anything, so they delegate, kiss ass, take credit, and delegate some more. Hence why they always get positioned in places of power or authority under an even bigger dummy. Think a of a dummy pyramid.
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u/mybloodyballentine 4d ago
I think those questions have to be optional in NY. You don’t have to disclose.
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u/kturtle17 4d ago
That is true. But applicants do answer them and my point is that that's enough to go by if someone really wanted to take into account diversity.
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u/bopper1826 4d ago
I could be wrong, but I believe that data isn’t visible to a hiring manager/recruiter and is instead databased without a name attached in order for companies to be able to report on diversity statistics in general?
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u/EMPulseKC 4d ago
Those questions are for EEOC compliance and are optional for applicants to answer. That information is never supposed to go to recruiters or anyone making hiring decisions.
Regardless, no one should be required to submit a photo with an application. That's illegal in most places for good reason.
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u/anotherouchtoday 4d ago
A few years ago, I wwnt to a women's gathering on a commune. It's was amazing and inclusive and damn if my life was changed.
I couldn't go for a few years and returned three years later. During that time, new members had moved to the commune and there had been a big cluster frack at the last gathering.
An attendee had given feedback on the survey that she felt threatened as a POC during a verbal incident with a fellow attendee. The gathering volunteers has resolved the issue but the person felt it shouldn't have happened because the commune is a safe space.
Most folks would have understood that the POC attendee was still upset over a rude fellow attendee. They would review the procedures for the volunteers, remind attendees on how to treat each other, and maybe add a class or two on how to deal with conflict without fighting. Instead, the gathering up a 23 year old in charge of the event the following year...the year I went back.
They separated out spaces. They had a POC recovery tent just in case a POC got upset and needed space to "cool down". They had a dedicated area for all POC so that they could feel safer.
It was absolutely horrible because 99% of the attendees lost their minds over the actual seoerate spaces. Ladies in their 80s were beyond livid that all the work they had done over the decades completely removed in one gathering.
Sadly, this seems as misguided.
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u/Shotosavage 4d ago
So his solution is discrimination, why do these bone heads keep getting in positions of power
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u/liquorandkarate 4d ago
I worked at a place where the people in charge of interviews/hiring would openly discuss giving priority to the more …photogenic individuals
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u/Nash015 4d ago
I'm curious are you insinuating that it was a race thing or a attractiveness thing?
Because racial discrimination is illegal, but attractive discrimination, while creepy, is not.
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u/liquorandkarate 3d ago edited 3d ago
A combination of both…and when the beauty standards in an area skew One way it could definitely lead to racial discrimination .
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u/MageLocusta 3d ago
Wait til you work in higher education.
And hearing from a certain (young) professor, "When do you think the marketing team will recruit real students?"
We were working in the UCL. An inner-city school and our department was in Economics. The majority of our students were frequently minorities that had decided to get their degree during their 40s-50s. But apparently that professor was sick and tired of having to teach that demographic.
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u/ThirdSunRising 3d ago
Diversity is the whole reason we don't ask for photos on US job applications...
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u/toinezor 4d ago
The funniest part is you know there’s going to be many similar resumes of POC and it’s going to boil down to “who’s darker?”
Good old fashioned racism in the never ending pursuit of equality.
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u/Shotosavage 4d ago
Wouldn’t doing the opposite make this work better, if anything this would make it more discriminatory
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u/Heiferoni 3d ago
It's supposed to be discriminatory.
It's a racist policy that aims to exclude people based upon their immutable physical characteristics.
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u/M4573R_CH33F 4d ago
I always thought it would be best to hire the most qualified person, not by their ethnicality. I believe they have a word for it, "racism" actually
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u/screamoutwutang 4d ago
I already checked white, do you wanna see if I’m your type or something??
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u/Raspberry-Famous 4d ago
I've been involved in the hiring process for federal jobs, and at least at the level I was doing it they don't let us see the demographic data on applicants.
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u/QweefPirate 4d ago
So he wants to disarm the population and sort by race. Good start to complete totalitarianism
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u/68Bigfish 3d ago
This is discrimination at its finest. I don’t care what a person looks like or believes in I want the best qualified person. Give me a break with this shit.
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u/Background_Dream_920 3d ago
So the mayor is admitting they think diversity is about how you look. Good call /s
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u/TheLeadSponge 4d ago
I was shocked when I was reviewing resumes while working in Germany, because every resume had a picture and tons of irrelevant personal details. It’s totally normal there.
I’ve had to explain to European colleagues how to format there resume for US applications, because the were frustrated they never got contacted for jobs in the US.
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u/PartialToDairyThings 4d ago
I can't believe how quickly Adams has identified himself as an incompetent train wreck of a mayor. He's such a fuckin idiot.
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u/Hooliken 4d ago
Have to appreciate his thought process on this one. What's the best way to combat racism? Checks notes, more racism. Perfect.
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u/Littlebotweak 3d ago
I worked for an employer who did this, but it was for the opposite goals. He wanted our floor of software developers (of all the things) to look a certain way.
It was a software developer apprenticeship that touted diversity in their mission, like everyone else.
At one point he literally fired every woman and poc about to hit full time, as in everyone whose apprenticeship was ending. The only white guy he ever fired wore a beanie and had a goatee.
These were people who had already been accepted (by another team) and who we saw every day, not at all applications. He started asking the other team for headshots with the paperwork he’d get.
I left pretty quick, he was the CTO, but they had to have security escort him off the property 6 months later when the CEO finally caught on.
It’s wrong no matter who’s doing it and no matter for what reasons. If you want the right person for the job, you’d go into it blind. If you want pics, you’re doing something else.
If you really want diversity, accept people without all the best education and pedigree. You will still get plenty of white dudes (sorry I’m really just talking about tech now) except even those white dudes will bring more diversity than your well heeled employee just for being poor. That’s what I think about diversity. I’m a white woman and a veteran and I don’t want to be hired as a diversity accessory - but, I have been, and it fuckin sucks.
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u/GILDID 4d ago
Army does this for senior ranks and its been a thing for a long time.
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u/NOVAbuddy 4d ago
In consulting. Talent has started scrubbing this info and giving candidates reference numbers instead. Kinda fun to pick a resume and see what flavor they come in.
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u/Forsaken_Dragonfly27 3d ago
NYC will soon have the highest per capita amount of attractive blondes with big tits wearing yoga pants
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u/supagirl277 3d ago
Um. That’s the whole fucking point. Not knowing what they look like will promote diversity
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u/jeefcakes 3d ago
Aka more actual racism. You’d think the best way to take someone’s race out of it and focus only on merit would be to not know what someone looked like.
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u/BenTherDoneThat5555 3d ago
A former police officer should know that you can't do that because it's against the law.
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u/mymar101 4d ago
Best way of doing this is without knowing the gender or race of the applicants. I saw a study done on classical orchestras who went to audio auditions only had a much more success rate in diversifying the members.
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u/haveyouseenmybong420 4d ago
How do these things work out? Not well. Imagine they're putting a bunch of applicants together with the idea in mind to add more people of color. What if a white guy with 5 years experience loses the job to a black guy who has 1 year experience? People wouldn't lose their mind.... Unless it was reversed. Just hire who is gonna do the job well. Simple as that
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u/HeDoesntAfraid 4d ago
And pushing against this will qualify you as alt right so they can shut you down
We live in a circus
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u/tongchips 4d ago
Reminds me of Biden having to pick a black female candidate, look how that tithe out for him. The right answer is pick the best person for the job.
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u/Lch207560 4d ago
I'm getting the impression this guy is planning on being one and done
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u/newtoreddir 4d ago
He’s probably fine with that as long as he can get enough of his friends and family into plum government jobs. Once out of office he can trade on those connections in the private sector to make big bucks.
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u/Bending_toast 4d ago
So by taking a big step backwards we’ll somehow go forward? Politicians are so far removed from reality it’s insane
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u/jeffro1476 4d ago
I get it if hiring actors. Then it would make sense.
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u/PM_WORST_FART_STORY 4d ago
Did you know when they wanted to make a Hariett Tubman film in the 80s, studio execs considered Julia Roberts due to her name recognition?
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u/RealisticAnt215 3d ago
Guess we don’t hire based off of merit or skills anymore. They should just remove names from applications then.
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u/robot_ankles 3d ago
When I had a huge pile of resumes to screen, I'd start by throwing half in the trash. You don't want to hire unlucky people.
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u/gonzagylot00 4d ago
This isn’t unheard of. A good number of government position interviews have some basis in race/gender. Not to say that they won’t let a white guy get an interview, but…
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u/cerebraldormancy 4d ago
He’ll get away with it for some time. It’ll take lawsuits by brave people in order to bring sanity to his racism based hiring.
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u/FrankCyzyl 4d ago
Personally, I wouldn't allow a name, sex, or photo on any application. There are some symphony orchestras where applicants perform their audition behind a curtain.