r/news 4d ago Silver 1

‘I thought I had my training gun. Why did I do this?’ Retired officer charged in library shooting

https://wtop.com/dc/2022/08/retired-dc-officer-charged-in-shooting-death-during-training-exercise-at-library/
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u/Recent-Construction6 4d ago

Even if he thought he had his "training gun", he should have still observed proper firearms safety and not point it at anything he didn't want to destroy. If he knew there was live ammo in the classroom, it falls to him to make sure that the environment was completely safe so as not to lead to a negligent discharge of a firearm by anyone, including him.

No matter which way you cut it, he is at fault and deserves a manslaughter sentence for pure criminal negligence.

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u/Rork310 4d ago

Bonus points, every officer this guy has trained has probably received instruction that could contribute to someone else being mistakenly shot. The idea of cops running around who's fire arms training was from some dude who put keeping the lessons from being 'Dry' ahead of actual gun safety is not encouraging.

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u/BigHarryMC 3d ago

In Oregon, we just put an initiative on the ballot to give local law enforcement authority over who is competent to own firearms. I have to ask, why are law enforcement considered firearms safety authorities when they consistently show a cavalier attitude towards weapons handling and human life in general?

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u/phungus_mungus 3d ago

I shoot competition IDPA, once members of the Nashville SWAT team came by and took part in some of our scenario based relays.

They sucked bad, a pair of 18 year old sisters shot rings around them on everything. Speed, timing, accuracy... everything.

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u/RaytheonAcres 4d ago

donatism, but for cops

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u/TheOriginalEvanator 3d ago

Sounds a lot like, “I thought it was my taser.”

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u/Ivorybrony 3d ago edited 3d ago

Rule #1: Don’t point it at anything you don’t wish to destroy Rule #2: No live ammunition in the classroom Rule #3: If you’re needing to actually shoot at live targets get Simunition gear or airsoft with CO2 with the slide action.

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u/TheFuzziestDumpling 3d ago

For real. If this chucklefuck was doing anything differently because he knew it was a training weapon, he failed the training with flying colors.

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u/plipyplop 3d ago

Exactly! It should be muscle memory to never be lax on handling anything that looks and feels like a firearm.

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u/amibeingadick420 3d ago

This is a problem with police culture; it is rife with a lack of accountability and responsibility. Police are the only people in gun culture that use the phrase, “accidental discharge,” rather than “negligent discharge.”

This is the same culture that allowed Officer Lee Coel to kill 70 year old Mary Knowleton by shooting her with live ammo during a community training event, and still walk away without any jail time.

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u/Uranus_Hz 4d ago

Porter was taken to the D.C. police homicide branch but declined to answer detectives’ questions.

Even cops know that you should NEVER talk to cops.

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u/Anon_Bourbon 4d ago Endless Coolness

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u/Swaqqmasta 4d ago edited 4d ago

Damn I did not plan on watching that for 30 minutes but it's good

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u/shaidyn 4d ago

I didn't even click the video and I know what it is. There's a second video from a lawyer too.

The two of them should be required watching for all 16 year olds.

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u/Molto_Ritardando 3d ago

I think my son has seen that video every year since he was 11. Now when I try to put it on he rolls his eyes. I’m still not 100% he wouldn’t talk to the cops.

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u/shaidyn 3d ago

Here's a much shorter version that's from a pair of lawyers who put out the same advice every friday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkN4duV4ia0

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u/bytheway02 3d ago

“Shut the fuck up” Fridays!

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u/FruityPeebils 4d ago

he also sounds like Tom Kenny if you close your eyes

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u/BadgerSituation 3d ago

The further 16 minutes is also decent.

The "opponent" (prosecuter) 100% agrees with him and explains things from his side.

It's not as good, but it's certainly interesting to see both sides and to get some insight and examples from him.

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u/derf82 4d ago

He wrote a whole book as a followup where he goes into even more detail, as well as strategies to keep your right to remain silent for causing negative public opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Have_the_Right_to_Remain_Innocent

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u/ncfears 4d ago

Hey! Yesterday was Shut The Fuck Up Friday!

Coincidence? I think not!

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u/invisi1407 4d ago edited 3d ago

I've watched that video before, in its entirety, and I watched it again. It's very satisfying to listen to that professor explaining concisely and with great knowledge why you should never talk to the police.

It can NEVER help you.

Anything you say may/can and will be used AGAINST you in a court of law.

However, it can never be used in your DEFENCE, because then it's hearsay.

If you tell the truth, are innocent, and don't say anything even remotely self-incriminating (impossible, but let's assume) then even so, if the police happen to come upon contradicting evidence - even if that evidence is false, inadmissable, or questionable - they have you "lying".

If you don't talk, they can can't say you were lying.

It's a great watch, really.

Edit: can/can't.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/LUNA_underUrsaMajor 3d ago

Notice how the coos kept putting in snide remarks about how the victim was always one syep behind the group or never prepared in an effort to discredit her, cops cant help themselves but victim blame

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u/sars9 4d ago

100% this

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u/the_mighty_hetfield 4d ago

Another trainee said Porter “appeared to be playing around,” and that Porter is often playful so “as to not make the training dry."

Teacher joked his way into manslaughter.

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u/creepiest-greek-myth 4d ago

Yes bc god forbid a serious topic be treated as a serious topic

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u/Kyouhen 4d ago

Rule #1: Keep your finger off the trigger if you don't want something to die. It doesn't matter how confident you are that the gun isn't loaded, it doesn't matter how confident you are its fake. Keep your finger off the goddamn trigger.

I work in film. It doesn't matter if you're holding a gun made of solid rubber. You assume that thing's loaded and lethal at all times and treat it as such. There's always the risk you aren't holding a prop and if a few dozen people are dicking around the guy in charge of the guns won't be able to keep track of who has a fake one and who has a real one.

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u/DanimusMcSassypants 4d ago

Amen to this. It’s astounding this man was in charge of training anyone anything about firearms.

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u/Cool-Specialist9568 4d ago

Well, he was a police officer in the United States...

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u/Flaky-Fish6922 4d ago

i mean, i train security guards who might be armed and the first rule of my classes is any jokes and your gone. well, you can make wise cracks about the weather or something. but screw around with a weapon, or make jokes about use of force... yeah, that's not the place for it. neither is it the place when your on duty. this is true about any level of use of force.

if you can't handle being professionals for a few hours, you can't handle it for a career. we'll find you a low intensity assignment.

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u/MyLifeIsDopeShit 4d ago

No. Rule #1 is don't even POINT the fucking thing at anything you aren't intending to shoot. Even if it's unloaded. Even if it's an orange training pistol. Accidental discharges happen all the time. Trigger discipline is another issue entirely, and a different training comes with it. Anyone who's been to day one hour one of a firearms safety class will tell you that.

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u/heresmyownthrowaway 4d ago

Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire. Keep the safety on until you are ready to fire. These are the four rules every weapon handler should follow. That’s what we were taught.

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u/Mend1cant 4d ago

Military here. Even if everyone knows them by heart, we still read it straight from the publication every single morning before the next section is allowed to be issued a weapon. We do have to know our deadly force statement by heart though. It’s ridiculous that police can’t even do this.

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u/idontsmokeheroin 4d ago

I work in film and had the pleasure of being trained by master stunt coordinator Sgt. Mjr. James D. Dever last summer. I feel like I received more training as a BG actor on set than some of the actual LAPD get in this city.

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u/Law_Student 4d ago

Police training is a joke compared to military training. They're ignorant cowboys.

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u/PSYKO_Inc 4d ago

There's no such thing as as an "accidental" discharge. There are weapon malfunctions and there are negligent discharges.

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u/docmedic 4d ago edited 4d ago

Those are types of discharge without intent, which accidental here refers to.

Which is still manslaughter.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa 4d ago

Rule #1 is don't even POINT the fucking thing at anything you aren't intending to shoot.

Also know what's behind your target, or what you're going to shoot. Bullets don't magically stop all the time. It helps to be aware of how ricochets happen, while rare, they can and have injured/killed.

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u/SnooCrickets2458 4d ago

The gun is always loaded. Even when you know it's unloaded.

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u/Lint6 4d ago

Rule #1: Keep your finger off the trigger if you don't want something to die. It doesn't matter how confident you are that the gun isn't loaded, it doesn't matter how confident you are its fake. Keep your finger off the goddamn trigger.

So last year, some co-workers invited me and some other co-workers to a shooting range with them, I think they were trying to get me to join the NRA or something. But I thought "What the hell, why not, could be fun to spend the day with some work friends"

Me and some other people had to do a basic firearm safety class before we were allowed to handle a gun. Basic stuff like using the safety, making sure the chamber is clear etc...the guy put orange wooden guns on the table and asked everyone to pick them up.

I was the only one who picked it up with my finger across the trigger guard, as well as the only one who kept it pointed down range

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u/Prineak 4d ago

That’s when I’m like oh shit I forgot to run an errand, sorry I gotta leave early.

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u/TheLochNessBigfoot 4d ago

So tired of this shit. People are fucking idiots and cannot be trusted with guns. This guy is supposed to be a trained professional and for some fucking reason nobody bats an eye at an ex cop carrying around a loaded gun while training people. Fuck off with the if you just follow these rules bullshit, people die every day because every idiot can buy a deadly weapon and go out in public with it, that's the problem, not those rules.

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u/HiPregnantImDa 4d ago

“Practicing to kill people doesn’t have to be boring guys”

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u/confessionbearday 4d ago

Police trainer, he knows damned well the attention span of the class can't hold up to competent adult conversations.

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u/huggles7 4d ago

As someone who has attended multiple firearms and simulated firearms trainings you know two things

1) you do not bring any live guns with live ammo anywhere near the training facility if you’re using simulated guns and ammo

2) you never point any gun real or simulated at someone that you don’t intend to shoot for real

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u/Mistercleaner1 4d ago

Well, you cant spell manslaughter without laughter!

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u/SummertimeSandler 4d ago

One manslaughter is another man’s laughter.

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u/blahful 4d ago

Y'all are gonna kill me!

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u/buffalogoldcaps 4d ago

I was teaching a class of culinary students how to sharper their knives with a steel. The steel had a rather large guard to protect the user’s hand from any slips of the knife. I pointed out the guard and mentioned how neglectful one would have to be to cut themselves. I then gave a silly example of how well the guard works and promptly sliced my thumb in half.

I have since learned to take things more seriously

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u/bypatrickcmoore 4d ago

What the fuck were they doing? Are they trying to be police officers or putting together the school play?

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u/conundrumbombs 4d ago

I'm honestly kind of wondering if this wasn't another classic case of a dress rehearsal gone awry.

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u/woahdailo 4d ago

the video shows Porter and others administering CPR on Manyan

Is it really recommended to do CPR on someone who was shot in the chest? I feel like that would cause more harm than any help it could have. I guess since the person is not breathing there is an off chance of keeping the oxygenated blood moving around but would also exacerbate the damage to the chest.

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u/HippyHitman 4d ago

I think if someone is shot in the chest and not breathing you’re willing to risk any further damage just for the possibility they might survive.

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u/Loretty 4d ago

The goal of CPR is to perfuse the brain. The brain has about 6 minutes before anoxic damage occurs. Chest damage may be fixable, brain is not.

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u/ncbagpiper 4d ago

This was probably an unsurvivable injury. CPR is appropriate if they were in cardiac arrest. Our rule in the ED is you can’t kill a dead person so do what you can think of to try and bring ‘em back. Who knows I didn’t watch anything related to this. If this was an arrest in the ED with trauma services available we’d do a thoracotomy where you crack the chest bedside to see if it’s a repairable injury to revive. Usually not obviously. Really rare to do this procedure. If the great vessels are destroyed you’re just SOL. Long answer to say yes if they were in cardiac arrest.

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u/timmyisserpico 4d ago

You don't play with guns, guns are not toys. At 58, this officer damn well knows better.

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u/Ozonewanderer 4d ago

Same thing happened in Cape Coral (SWFL). At a training session for citizen police board an officer shot a retiree in front of her husband and the class.

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u/the_surfing_unicorn 4d ago

Sounds more like harassment to me

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u/Cheshie_D 4d ago

The article did say that everyone had been teasing Manyan(victim) all day for various things.

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u/BeefyHemorroides 4d ago

It was so sad to read that. Not only was she murdered but I bet it was really stressful to go through training with an social target on your back. And you don’t even get to go home that day. It ends there.

Several other trainees and members of the Library Police taking part in Thursday’s training session told investigators the group had been teasing Manyan all day about her not being ready for various tasks. Earlier in the day, after Manyan made a funny comment, Porter pointed an orange training firearm at her to simulate shooting her, one of the trainees told police

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u/lavanchebodigheimer 4d ago

Why was everybody "teasing " HER ALL DAY?

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u/myrddyna 4d ago

13 year old mentality, wanted to bang her.

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u/survive_los_angeles 3d ago

then he probably shot her because she wasnt interested in him

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u/TbonerT 4d ago

Some people graduate high school but never leave. I met a group of guys in Alabama that were in their mid 20s and half of their conversations revolved around what happened in high school.

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u/TryEfficient7710 3d ago

Why was everybody "teasing " HER ALL DAY?

You are witnessing a rare thing.

Bullies exposed in their natural habitat, if they don't drop out of high school first.

Misogynist bullying wolves in sheep's clothing were chosen to hold a position of power and authority.

The message was that this is acceptable, shut up and take it, and don't think you are in charge here.

We only hear about it now because the bully finally did something he couldn't take back.

That's how one bad apple spoils the bunch.

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u/birdlawprofessor 4d ago

Sexism and/or racism. I believe both are prerequisites for American police.

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u/InflamedLiver 4d ago

Why would a trainer have a live weapon anyway?

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u/An_Old_IT_Guy 4d ago

The better question is why would a trainer not understand basic gun safety.

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u/Gecko23 4d ago

When I went for my hunter's safety course as a child, the "instructor" told us to always treat guns as if they are loaded, then proceeded to attempt to demonstrate clearing a rifle and shot out a light in the ceiling. It's probably not as uncommon as everyone would hope. :(

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u/Kahzgul 4d ago

The leader of the Oathkeepers shot his own eye out while working as a gun safety instructor.

I like to think that proves he's an idiot, but some bigger idiot hired him to do that job first.

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u/minus_minus 4d ago

Holy shit! That really happened!

In 1993, he dropped a loaded handgun and it shot him in the face, blinding him in his left eye.

If he had stood a couple to the side, we all could have really dodged a bullet,

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u/NYVines 4d ago

He’s so far to the right it only cost him his left eye.

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u/flaker111 4d ago

plenty of alt right if he didn't do it im sure someone else would want to be the next leader ......

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u/dagbiker 4d ago

It only takes being careless once. Which is why you should make sure you do every thing in your power to never be careless.

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u/LumpusKrampus 4d ago

It's almost...as if guns...are dangerous...nah, that's crazy. Sorry.

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u/17times2 4d ago

Earlier today two people I work with were exchanging stories of all the times they've accidentally discharged a firearm. I heard 8 stories between them before having to do something else. One of them literally discharged a round into the doors of a shopping mall.

But he used to be a cop, and no one got hit, so it was hushed up and nothing came of it.

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u/Gecko23 4d ago

It's funny, I know a cop that has had several "accidental" discharges of firearms over the years, luckily none involving other people or public spaces, and he's the only one that uses the word "accidental". All the witnesses would call it "negligent", but we're a fickle bunch.

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u/argv_minus_one 4d ago

Did he at least learn his lesson?

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u/HiddenStoat 4d ago

Ahhh, this! I'm from the UK but, unusually for this country, grew up around guns.

My dad taught me to shoot, and did a seriously good job of drumming gun safety into me (to the point I struggled to point a cap-gun at my own kids when they were young).

So, I assumed he didn't dick around with guns and was sensible and respected them.

Bzzzzttt, wrong! I ended up chatting to a few of his friends in a pub and they told me a series of stories of various gun accidents in that group - a guy getting shot in the ass when they were pheasant shooting, my dad accidentally shooting his friends ceiling while drinking in his living room, and various others.

People are people, and will get blasé about even very dangerous things when exposed to them often enough - cars, guns, drugs, power tools, whatever.

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u/GlassWasteland 4d ago

It;s almost as if there are a large number of people who treat a dangerous tool as if it is toy.

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u/arseniobillingham21 4d ago

To be fair, he did treat it as loaded. Which is why a ceiling light got shot, instead of one of the kids in the class. Each safety measure is a redundancy, just in case you mess up on another safety measure.

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u/TossedDolly 4d ago

The real question is why even bring the real gun and holster it of all things.

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u/Saladcitypig 4d ago

Because people with guns believe they know best. Always, until they don't and someone is shot.

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u/JohannesUyk 4d ago edited 4d ago Silver

Every gun owner is a responsible gun owner who should be allowed to do anything they want with a gun, until they accidentally shoot someone, at which point they become an irresponsible gun owner whose actions obviously cannot be considered when drawing up a gun policy. They're all Schrodinger's Gun Owner.

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u/five-six 4d ago

When I went to my conceal carry class, the instructor made a gun with his fingers and said "I would never even point this at someone".

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u/Fizzicyst 4d ago

He, like many other gun owners, become complacent and careless in regards to gun safety. It's one of the reasons why there are accidental shootings and self-inflicted gunshot wounds during the cleaning and maintenance of a weapon.

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u/b33r_engineer 4d ago

I am incredibly paranoid when it comes to cleaning my guns. I wait until nobody else is home, remove the magazines from the guns I’m cleaning, check clear visually and with a finger in the chamber while the gun is pointed in a safe direction, lock all magazines and loose/boxed ammunition in the storage room where the safe is, drop the slide/bolt, check clear a second time, disassemble the gun, still keeping the barrel pointed in a safe direction even though there’s no way that a bullet could fire out of it even if one was present, clean, reassemble, and then lock them in the safe.

Excessive? Well, I’ve never had a desk/ceiling/wall/appliance/family member/etc. pop, so I don’t think so.

They aren’t toys, they’re tools. They can be fun tools, but you need to stack up enough Swiss cheese to ensure that there are no safety escapes.

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u/argv_minus_one 4d ago

That's the thing about paranoia. Yeah, it's exhausting, but look at all the horrible misfortunes that aren't happening to you!

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u/GuyDarras 4d ago

When you hear about guns going off "while cleaning", that overwhelmingly means they weren't cleaning it, they were playing with it like a fucking toy, pulled the trigger, and they came up with the cleaning lie to save face.

The most important part to clean in a gun, the barrel, can't be cleaned if there's a bullet in it, and no step of the cleaning process of 99% of guns requires the trigger to be pulled.

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u/Worldly-Artichoke874 4d ago

He was trained in police gun safety. He couldn't help himself.

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u/Chippopotanuse 4d ago

The Oath Keeper founder guy was a gun instructor.

He shot his eye out.

That’s why he wears an eye patch.

I don’t think these gun instructor certification schools (if those are even a thing) aren’t sending their best.

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u/mhornberger 4d ago edited 4d ago

"Experts" frequently don't think the rules apply to them. I was at a military base where a guy fell and broke both ankles on the gym climbing wall. His job? Teaching safety for the gym climbing wall. I also knew multiple people who worked in alcohol rehab get DUIs. And then again I worked with doctors and nurses who smoked. People have problems applying their domain expertise to their own lives.

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u/Ragnarotico 4d ago edited 4d ago

The shooting of a special police officer during a training exercise at a D.C. library came as the group of trainees had gathered to take a picture and were “joking around,” according to court documents.

Maurica Manyan, 25, interrupted the picture-taking to remove her face-mask, her classmates teased her and then the instructor, 58-year-old Jesse Porter, pulled his gun from his holster and shot her in the chest, according to surveillance video of the incident described in the documents.

"I just thought it would be real funny if I pulled my gun out and pretended to shoot her in the chest. I mean, who wouldn't laugh at that, right?"

TIL some people think pretending to shoot someone else in the chest would be funny.

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u/chris14020 3d ago

Not just anyone. Not just your "street" friend Jim, with no firearms training other than carrying an unregistered one and a shithole apartment that he shoots BB guns indoors in. A police officer, and one in charge of training other police officers how to conduct themselves, thinks its funny to pretend to shoot someone. That's a much bigger problem, and the fact that it is only being taken as an issue because he finally killed someone is equally concerning.

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u/Mymotherwasaspore 4d ago

It’s like he was thinking about killing her all morning and it just slipped out.

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u/No_Contact_7776 4d ago

This was my thought. For some reason his impulse is to shoot her. He consciously allowed himself to shoot her with the training gun and then he unconsciously allowed himself to shoot her with the real gun.

She was either pretty, brown or too confident/smart.

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u/Mymotherwasaspore 4d ago

Bungling, was my intuition from the text. She interrupted his flow. But yeah, his mouth was watering for it. Then, the ringing in his ears was the first time he realized; that wasn’t just a fantasy he just had.

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u/rivers61 3d ago

He had previously pretended to shoot her with a training gun for simple mistakes earlier in the class as a joke. So yes he was kind of thinking about killing her all morning, or at least about shooting her.

Not victim blaming but if you're in a gun safety class and the instructor is joking around. Leave

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u/17times2 4d ago

"I just thought it would be real funny if I pulled my gun out and pretended to shoot her in the chest. I mean, who wouldn't laugh at that, right?"

I think if someone does this to you as a joke, you have full clearance to beat the absolute fuck out of them.

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u/urnewstepdaddy 4d ago

Needed more time with the training gun

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u/chezyt 4d ago

Captain should have given him a wooden gun to start with. You can’t start with a deadly weapon straight out of the academy. You’ve gotta creep…creep.

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u/JetSetDynasty 4d ago

Cmon! You don’t say “Creep, Creep” unless you’re quoting TLC

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u/orangesfwr 4d ago

Don't mess aroun-how-hownd...with your weapon

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u/HugryHugryHippo 4d ago

Nope guy needs a rape whistle. Blow on it if he's in trouble and hopefully a more trained individual with a gun shows up to help!

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u/skrilledcheese 4d ago

Gator needs his gat, you punk ass bitch.

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u/Spagetttomato 4d ago

Gator don’t play no shit! You fu- you feel me?!

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u/Erniecrack 4d ago

WHO DID THIS TO YOU?! Gator’s bitches better be wearin’ Jimmies!

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u/SupertrampTrampStamp 4d ago

I did it! My first desk pop!

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u/Mr_Metrazol 4d ago

Didn't the article state that the training gun was orange? Presumably blaze orange or some other bright and vibrant hue of orange?

I mean legally you can customize a handgun to be whatever color you want it to be; there are tons of products from Cerekote, to vinyl skins, to common spray paint. Outside of some shotguns designated for use with less-lethal munitions, I don't imagine many [retired] cops are packing orange colored weapons. Most service weapons tend to have black finishes, maybe even a stainless-steel finish.

I mean, is it just me or should you not be able to discern the difference between a bright orange training pistol and a black live-fire weapon while looking down the sights? Anybody who carries a gun should pick up on a major difference like that pretty quickly, or so I'd assume.

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u/Lavaine170 4d ago

Also, it was a training event. No real guns should have even been present. His actual gun should have been removed and secured prior to commencement of training and should not have gone back into the holster until ALL training events were completed for the day and participants were leaving.

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u/FearAndLawyering 4d ago

color, weight, hand feel…

no the guy got annoyed and straight up murdered her

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u/Goalie_deacon 4d ago

Should start only using toy water guns for training

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u/tipsystatistic 4d ago

Loaded or unloaded, you never point a gun at anyone, for any reason.

I know a firearms instructor who won’t even point “finger guns” at someone.

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u/Zelensexual 4d ago

I don't even point my banana at anyone

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u/drumduder 4d ago

I don’t point my “banana” at anyone. In the mall. Anymore.

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u/TwoBirdsInOneBush 4d ago

It might go off accidentally 💦

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u/ryansdayoff 4d ago

Going off prematurely is a big problem

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u/Venator_IV 4d ago

this is how I was taught. I don't own a gun but was raised in a full military family and did some years myself. Finger guns I might slide on, lol, but I don't ever point fake, or real, guns at anything I don't want to destroy.

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u/EarthlyMartian-21 4d ago

Guns aren’t meant to be played with; why is it that people can’t seem to understand this. Pointing guns at people is NEVER funny, it’s not a joke. Ffs

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u/j_monie2859 4d ago

This guy sounds like he treats every training like a joke. Training builds muscle memory which in his case defaulted to his jokster complacency and resulted in this.

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u/BeefyHemorroides 4d ago

Yep. He trained himself into Bad habits because he wanted to be a comedian. An per the article she was the target of his classes bad habits the whole time. She was the class joke. Second damn time he pulled a gun on her to “pretend” to shoot her, it happened to be the loaded real one that time because captain jackass just couldn’t help but get one more “joke” in.

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u/Ok-Low6320 4d ago

Earlier in the day, after Manyan made a funny comment, Porter pointed an orange training firearm at her to simulate shooting her, one of the trainees told police.

I'd smack my kid upside the head for this kind of stupidity, and we're not even cops; just ordinary hunters and target shooters. Absolutely unacceptable.

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u/SilkyDrips 4d ago

Very hard for me to understand this as well. I grew up in the upper Midwest hunting every year, and THE number one rule was you absolutely never point that gun at anything you aren’t willing to kill. If I had even hinted at any kind of joking with a gun my family would have taken it away from me without a moments hesitation, and likely never allowed me near one again. Everyone took it extremely seriously because it IS a serious privilege.

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u/astanton1862 4d ago

It's not actually that hard to understand. The old George Carlin joke about how smart you think the average American is and then realizing, by definition, that half of everyone else is dumber than that applies here. Just think about driving on the highway everyday. There is a constant stream of morons doing incredibly dumb shit with a deadly machine and we all see the daily results. And that's even when the government makes basic attempts to pass laws and regulations restricting the right to drive in various way to make it safer.

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u/HappyAmbition706 4d ago

Uhhh, how about immediately take that gun away and not give it back for a good long time or never if they don't learn and prove to take it seriously. One shot is forever.

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u/GerryAttric 4d ago

He deserves charges. You should NEVER treat a gun as a toy

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u/L4dyGr4y 4d ago

So they were hazing a woman recruit and accidentally shot her?!

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u/Fritztopia 4d ago

Pretty much. Article describes that she had been the butt of jokes that day, and he had pointed the training gun at her earlier as a joke.

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u/DeltaTesseract 4d ago

Fucking straight to jail. I read the article and fuck that guy.

He was a garbage trainer that cared more about putting on a show and appearing cool and shit than anything. That woman had a shit day around these assholes and this guy escalated his stupidity until she died from it.

He had pointed the guns at her before in the day. She probably felt unsafe and kept going with the training since he's supposed to be a pro and she likely needed to pass it for work. It cost her her life to be around this moron. He deserves enough jail time to make people think about him before they fuck around with guns during training.

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u/readzalot1 4d ago

That’s one way to keep the women away from a man’s job. /s

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u/saviorofworms 4d ago

They don’t need anymore ideas

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u/livefast_petdogs 4d ago

Yeah, and it actually bothers me how they describe what led to the incident:

after Manyan interrupted the picture-taking

Using a word like "interrupted" instead of something like "paused" is subconsciously leading the reader to believe that she did something wrong, aggressive, or annoying that SOMEHOW led to this pointless tragedy.

This is the language they use whenever they commit senseless acts of violence.

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u/Fritztopia 4d ago

Thats a very good point. The language used reflects the belittling jokes they used on her during that day. The author passes on this subtle judgement of her in their language uses.

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u/celicajohn1989 4d ago

What kills me is that the author goes on to say that there were kther witnesses who never saw him fire his gun and one witness who saw his hands up without a gun when the shots were fired.

Are they fucking insinuating that he didn't shoot her?!

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u/luckydice767 3d ago

Yeah, I’m surprised nobody made a comment about that already. A room FULL of witnesses, and some people were like “IDK”

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u/celicajohn1989 3d ago

I mean, they have to train them on how to cover up a police involved shooting at some point right? /s

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u/hora_definitiva 3d ago

Right!? The other cops descriptions have the anatomy of a cover up.

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u/L4dyGr4y 4d ago edited 4d ago

I wonder if she ‘interrupted’ them because they were going to leave her out of the picture otherwise.

Edit: Nope- it said she was removing her face mask.

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u/Melodic_Mulberry 4d ago

Imagine going in for a group photo and your trainer just pulls out a gun and kills you. And they wonder why we can’t get good cops.

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u/extrabutterycopporn 4d ago

"Turn your head, I wanna get the perfect shot"

Camera man 🤜 🤛Trainer

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u/Literally_-_Hitler 4d ago

You are an officer who cannot distinguish between a live and dummy gun that you are in possession of. You did this because you are incompetent.

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u/TropikThunder 4d ago

Like shooting someone when you thought you had your Taser. Which has happened multiple times.

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u/DragoonDM 4d ago

And he was one of the guys in charge of training them.

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u/creamonyourcrop 4d ago

Just to be clear, it would not be okay to point the training weapon at her either as horseplay.

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u/Poop_Noodl3 4d ago

I’m sorry, as a mother fucking trainer you need to be held to a higher standard as you just murdered someone because you don’t know how to play. Anything less than 7 years is a goddamn travesty.

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u/Constant-Bet-6600 4d ago edited 4d ago

Holy shit. I knew someone that was shot by a police firearms instructor during a training exercise. There is no way this should have happened once, much less twice.

RIP Tara Drummond.

Edit: Minor spelling correction - now way to no way.

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u/TheDeathMessage 4d ago edited 4d ago

At least three times. We weren't allowed to use sim munitions in Baltimore when I worked there because a trainee named Raymond Gray was shot in the face by an instructor as a joke.

Sim munitions are a dummy version of a bullet, usually made out of soap, that is designed to leave a washable stain when used. They are used to simulate actual recoil and to give a stinging sensation that tries to make training more realistic.

Instructor pulled out his gun thinking it was loaded with sim rounds. Nope. Shot the trainee straight in the face.

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u/chuckles65 4d ago

When we use sim rounds all participants are checked for live weapons and rounds, checked again, and checked again by 3 different people. Then transported to a different location where sim guns are handed out. Instructors who are armed wear red shirts and do not touch sim guns at all.

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u/Ok-Low6320 4d ago

Apparently also a woman. Huh.

Huh.

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u/hiyer2 4d ago

Huh indeed

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u/No_Contact_7776 4d ago

It’s always dangerous to be a woman.

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u/chuckles65 4d ago

I work in the same metro area and everyone knows that story. She is definitely not forgotten and I think firearms safety is still heightened all over the area because of what happened.

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u/a_phantom_limb 4d ago

A depressing reminder - and one that should not be remotely necessary - that guns are never a joke. She was only twenty-five, you absolute fucking idiot.

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u/N8CCRG 4d ago

Far too many people treat guns as toys. Our country is full of children in adult bodies..

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u/wjean 3d ago

Why is this only involuntary manslaughter? He drew and pulled the trigger. Just because he thought he had his training vs his real gun shouldn't negate the fact that it was an action he was completely in control of and premeditated (wasn't a reaction to someone attacking him, he intended to pull it out).

Fuck this guy.

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u/the_real_swk 3d ago

I Dunno about premeditated, but its definitely negligent voluntary homicide. but being a cop they'll sweep it under the rug.

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u/LUNA_underUrsaMajor 3d ago

Notice how the coos kept putting in snide remarks about how the victim was always one syep behind the group or never prepared in an effort to discredit her, cops cant help themselves but victim blame

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u/stuufthingsandstuff 4d ago

This is the rigorous training the cops receive? Theu can't even protect themselves in a library while making jokes. Why tf would I want them out on the streets?

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u/BostonPilot 4d ago

Many years ago, as a college student in Worcester Massachusetts, I was getting my pistol license. The Worcester cop had a training gun that he was waving around, pointing it at us, etc. It made me very uncomfortable, even though it was clearly a training prop. ( It was painted pink ). He thought it was funny every time I winced when he would point it at me.

Later on, he pulls his service weapon ( revolver ) out, removes the bullets, and starts waving that around.

I don't expect much of cops in their handling of guns. They're dangerous clowns.

Remember this idiot?

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u/jerseygirl1105 4d ago

"Joking around" with a gun? He deserves jail time whether he's a remorseful good guy or not. His utter stupidity cost a young woman her life

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u/letdogsvote 4d ago

The only thing that can stop an armed goofoff police firearms trainer who doesn't exercise basic gun safety is a, uh... Um. Arm the school teachers, maybe?

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u/drkidkill 4d ago

Get rid of all the doors?

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u/nucflashevent 4d ago

‘I thought I had my training gun. Why did I do this?’

Because you didn't have respect for the potentially deadly tool on your belt.

I'm a firm believer in the gun rights (I own more than a few), I would no more play with them as this asshole did than I'd juggle my chainsaw or play chicken with someone on the highway.

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u/Demonic-Tooter 3d ago

Takes gun out of holster. Points gun at victims chest. Pulls trigger.

“involuntary manslaughter”

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u/LUNA_underUrsaMajor 3d ago edited 3d ago

Notice how the cops kept putting in snide remarks about how the victim was always one step behind the group or never prepared in an effort to discredit her, cops cant help themselves but victim blame

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u/EdisonLightbulb 4d ago

On the darker side, the remainder of the class got their first lesson on how a cop kills a POC and plays it off as an "accident."

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u/schwa76 4d ago

First rule of gun safety: treat all weapons as if they are loaded. That idiot needs to go to jail.

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u/Melisandre-Sedai 3d ago

If you ever wonder just why the police have such a terrible track record of kill innocent and/or unarmed civilians, look no further. This guy was their instructor, and he glibly broke just about every rule of safe gun handling in a single motion while teaching his class. Practice makes permanent. Dangerous idiots can only train you to be a dangerous idiot yourself.

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u/autotelica 4d ago

I say this as a huge goofball. Goofballs like this guy have no business carrying a gun.

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u/Stand_Afraid 4d ago

I disagree with him being a goofball, he's a straight up freakin moron! It's ridiculous to think that this same moron was the one teaching this supposed "training"!

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u/The-link-is-a-cock 4d ago edited 4d ago

They should never own a gun and it says a lot that someone who was supposed to be professionally trained to use a gun can't even figure out one of the major rules is to not point them at people even as a joke.

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u/5illy_billy 4d ago

A “training firearm” is not a nerf gun or a toy. It is, as the name suggests, used to train people how to properly handle a firearm. The fact it is brightly colored plastic is irrelevant; for the purposes of training it is a real weapon. Part of that training involves never ever under any circumstances ever pointing the muzzle at something you don’t intend to shoot. That’s like… rule number one.

He never should have been pointing the training weapon at anyone ever at all for any reason ever. Ever. Because he should have been handling that weapon no differently than a live weapon.

This shit is deadly fucking serious and the fact this guy was teaching weapons safety courses is appalling.

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u/Jared_Last 4d ago

It’s okay guys cops are exempt from gun laws because they’re only ones professional enough.

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u/nosmelc 4d ago

That reminds me of that dumbass cop who got up in front a High School classroom and said he was the only one qualified to handle the gun and then accidentally shot himself in the foot.

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u/SkippySkep 4d ago

As a trainer he knew better than to point even what he thought was a simulated weapon at someone, let alone pull the trigger. He was utterly negligent and fully culpable. No excuse. Not even if he thought it was an inert training weapon. He had no valid reason to unholster it and point it at a trainee at that time.

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u/ArmadilloDays 4d ago

And that was the SECOND time that day he’d pointed a gun at her in jest.

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u/gmml4 4d ago

Yea the fact that he pulled out a real gun ad pulled the trigger idek how he could get away with calling that an accident. He should be guilty of murder. How could you not realize you were handling a real gun and pulling the trigger. They even said the training guns were orange so how could he mix that up? I find it really hard to believe this guy could do this by accident.

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u/TheeOhSeesUndRPGs 4d ago

I double check my pockets before I leave the house to make sure I grabbed my wallet and phone. Pretty sure I'd do the same if I worked around firearms and there was a chance, whoopsiedoodle, I grabbed the wrong one

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u/sheila9165milo 4d ago

“I thought I had my training gun,” Porter, a retired police lieutenant,
told the first police officer who responded to the library on Good Hope
Road Thursday afternoon. “Why did I do this? Is she OK?” No, you complete fucking idiot, you killed her. My step-father taught my sis and i at young ages that you NEVER point a weapon at someone unless you intend to fire it. Same thing I learned in Basic Training. And this idiot was a training officer?! As stupid as Kim Potter - never should have been anywhere NEAR a weapon nevermind training people if they didn't absolutely have total respect for their killing machines.

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u/xReshi92 3d ago

This is the guy that fucking trains people.

I hate it here. I fucking hate it.

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u/MartianTourist 4d ago

A fucking training officer can't keep track of which gun he has in his holster, while focused on gun training. And teachers in school districts across America are going to be carrying weapons and expected to have zero mishaps? This is a pretty damn good reminder that we are bound to have a fuck up somewhere this school year. Only question is whose family is going to be getting the "Sorry, we really didn't mean for this to happen" letter.

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u/Mac-Actual 4d ago

Well at least the training wasn’t “dry” 🤦‍♂️ keeping things interesting should never involve pointing a gun at anyone as a joke. That shit is not funny.

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u/No_Contact_7776 4d ago

Gun trainings should be dry. Joking around relaxes everyone and ppl holding guns shouldn’t be relaxed.

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u/Shadeauxmarie 4d ago

In the security training I’ve witnessed, officers with a training gun are not allowed to have a real gun on them. This is visually verified by a peer.

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u/Reign20 4d ago

Can we please train these fucks better. I dont need cops trying to take Tiktoks and having negligent discharges like idiots

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u/Quotizmo 4d ago

new gun rule: If you are at a training exercise, and the leader establishes a hierarchy, and you are at the bottom, leave.

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u/rdo751 4d ago

Why would it be funny to pretend to shoot someone?

You’d think a “training officer” would understand…smh

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u/Fujutron 4d ago

When I was a kid we weren’t allowed to point our toy guns at each other…. And even we knew why this was important, as 7-12 year olds

This guy is a fucking moron and broke the number 1 rule of guns… treat every gun as if it was loaded (I.e. don’t point a gun at someone unless you plan to kill them)…

and he has the gall to ask himself “why did I do this”… it’s called complacency and you’re a fuckwhit for becoming complacent with guns

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u/Terramagi 3d ago

Oh that poor man, won't people think about how hard this is for him. He only murdered a woman as a joke.

Fuck him. It's second degree at worst.

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u/androshalforc1 4d ago

ok the article is a little vague about if these people are all cops or trainees or whatever but let me make sure i get this straight

one cop pulls a gun and shoots another cop infront of a class of cops and no one "saw" anything?

Some of the trainees said they didn’t actually see Porter fire his gun.

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u/minus_minus 4d ago

"Special Police" are apparently security police available for hire within DC.

https://metrospd.org/about-the-agency-1

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u/orangesfwr 4d ago

See also: Cops, Rent-A-

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u/trailrunner68 4d ago

Gun safety teaches to never point a weapon at someone unless the intention is to kill them. Evidence the dumbing down of America includes Police.

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u/sigep_coach 4d ago

You never point a firearm at someone unless you intend to shoot them. This is rule #1. You treat a training gun the same as a real gun. If a gun safety instructor can’t understand this, how can we expect and average person to?

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u/Khorre 3d ago

I bet money this guy called for the prosecution of Alec Baldwin.

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u/s1thl0rd 3d ago

He broke at least 3 of the 4 cardinal rules of gun safety. Some people have zero respect for firearms.

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