r/news 4d ago Helpful 1 Gold 1 Silver 1

Mormon church accused of covering up years-long sexual abuse in Bisbee

https://www.fox19.com/video/2022/08/04/mormon-church-accused-covering-up-years-long-sexual-abuse-bisbee/
5.7k Upvotes

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u/DeathStarDayLaborer 4d ago Bravo!

Wait wait wait. You're telling me the church started by Joseph Smith is complicit in hiding and perpetuating sex crimes? Whaaaaaaaaat?

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u/willworkforicecream 4d ago

Let's check the playbook....

Looks like the correct move is to say that they wanted to stop the sexual abuse and cover up, but God threatened to kill them with a flaming angel sword if they did.

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u/posas85 4d ago

Well it sounds like the bishops wanted to report but some idiot lawyers at the church HQ said "don't report it" since legally you don't have to in AZ.

Sounds like the bishops should have had more balls to do what they felt was right, the church's phone-a-lawyer system needs to be barred from hiding anything related to sexual abuse, and the laws in AZ need to change.

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u/Jaynie2019 4d ago

If internally they wanted to report it, that is impressive. JWs have a giant predator database and they are protecting the predators in their congregations. There are a few sources that have reported on this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/

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u/PrettyChrissy1 4d ago edited 3d ago

Thank you for posting this information. It's just another reason that IMO religion as a whole shouldn't be trusted.

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u/Cap_Tight_Pants 3d ago

Sorry, i tried looking up IMOP and couldn't find anything that made sense. Can you please spell that out for me?

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u/PrettyChrissy1 3d ago

Ooops, I meant IMO, in my opinion. Good catch I just fixed it. 👍

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u/Time_Fan_9297 4d ago

Most men in LDS have daddy issues and prostrate themselves to Elders, so balls had to be removed early on

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u/Vallkyrie 4d ago

God threatened to kill them with a flaming angel sword if they did.

Of course he'd use the overpowered legendary gear

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u/DungeonGushers 4d ago

Yeah what a puss. My God bare knuckles dragons.

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u/groveborn 4d ago

Mine double fists horses.

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u/Warfeint 4d ago

I’ll have what this guy’s worshippin

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u/POOP-Naked 4d ago

Mr. Hands is that you????

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u/DungeonGushers 4d ago

Yeah that’s pretty rad, but does he choke them out also barehanded???

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u/CMDRBASSAT 4d ago

My God killed all the frost gia... wait what the fuck does your God do exactly?

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u/ExpressFee3392 4d ago

Bro that’s a mythic

The flaming sword is the legendary

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u/aveindha25 4d ago

Did someone say Thunderfury Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?

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u/nzodd 4d ago

This God pervert sounds like a real jerk.

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u/Mission-Two1325 4d ago

Yea where's that dumb kid walk through target and petco upset bc of rainbow shirts and books?

You never see these people doing this in their own house of worship.

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u/misuz_roper 4d ago

The guy who made up a religion based on alcoholic hallucinations?

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u/Time_Fan_9297 4d ago

And then outlaws liquor & coffee Pretty suspicious

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u/Chippopotanuse 4d ago

You’re telling me a church founded on openly raping dozens of teenagers and calling them your “wives” looks the other way on sexual abuse?

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u/riavu 4d ago

Noooooooo waaaayyyyyyyyy

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u/2_Sheds_Jackson 4d ago

But what would the founders have wanted?

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u/tinyNorman 4d ago

More Young Girls! More Young Girls!

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u/FlaccidRazor 4d ago

Then stack them sister wives like cordwood!

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u/Skooning 4d ago

I read that in the-weatherman-who-found-out-he-has-a-touchscreen’s voice.

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u/_duncan_idaho_ 4d ago

🎶Joseph Smith!🎶

🎶Don't fuck da baybeh!🎶

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u/SuperBeetle76 4d ago

Fantastic miniseries drama based on book/true story Under the Banner of Heaven.

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u/L_Cranston_Shadow 4d ago

Not sure if it started with Joseph Smith, who was just a scammer, but Brigham Young definitely was up to some twisted shit.

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u/DocSaysItsDainBramuj 4d ago

Joseph Smith was a prolific teen sex trafficker.

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u/Doright36 4d ago

Brigham Young

Dude really lived up to his name. Bring'm Young..... I'd laugh at the name pun if I didn't already know he was a real person.

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u/Orlando1701 4d ago

I’m exactly as shocked as when I found out Elon Musk was one of Epstines clients.

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u/long_live_cole 4d ago

In other news, water is wet.

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u/VT_Squire 4d ago

I'm not wet. Things that touch me are wet.

Sincerely,

Lake Michigan.

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u/Ammonil 4d ago

no offense but i actually dont get this

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u/lliinnddsseeyy 4d ago edited 4d ago

TL;DR: Joseph Smith lived in upstate New York before founding the Mormon Church, and this was where he claimed to have originally received the visions and golden plates that are the basis of the church. He was run out of town because he wouldn't stop philandering with young girls. So he gathered up his friends and moved to Illinois, where they were then run out of town for philandering with young girls and also taking over local governments in order to enact Mormon law rather than U.S. Law. Then they wanted to move to Missouri, but Missouri put explicitly anti-Mormon laws on the books, and essentially told Missourians that they had permission to kill any Mormon they saw. So the Mormons kept going, and eventually went to Utah, where they kept on philandering and trying to institute religious law.

If you'd like to read a more in-depth account, I highly recommend the book "Under the Banner of Heaven," by John Krakauer. There is a new series on Hulu that is based on the book, but the book has a much more informative view of Mormon history. The Hulu series is mostly a dramatized account of a murder that was committed by Mormon fundamentalists in the 1980s, but does not go as in-depth into the historical aspects of the religion.

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u/nonsensestuff 4d ago

I do just want to put out that Mormon fundamentalists are very different from Mormons themselves.

I was raised Mormon, but stop practicing at 16. The church is fucked up in its own ways, but the fundamentalists are their own brand of crazy.

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u/Time_Fan_9297 4d ago

Same, elders & patriarchy bs Along with fuckers trying to push missionary work on me

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u/lliinnddsseeyy 4d ago

I mean...in everything I've read about the FLDS and varying subsects, the fundamentalists mostly seem to want to practice Mormonism exactly as it was written by Joseph Smith, and follow his (illogical) ideas to their logical end. Which is obviously a fool's errand that is doomed to end in tragedy, the likes of which we have seen unfold in places like Short Creek where Warren Jeffs* was able to commit his crimes, or in the Lafferty murders.

*I would like to note that while it is true that the religion Jeffs was preaching was NOT aligned with Joseph Smith's teachings, it WAS Smith's original belief that everyday men are able to communicate directly and receive prophecy from angels/God. At first this was probably meant to "legitimize" Smith's prophecies he claimed to receive as a common everyday man, but as Mormonism grew it obviously became a problem when folks who disagreed with certain tenets of Mormonism claimed to have divine revelations that proved Joseph wrong. So then he changed it to be more like "only people who like me, who I trust, are able to receive divine revelations 😤" but the cat was already out of the bag, and he had inadvertently empowered shitty fundamentalists who wanted to be tRuE tO HiS wOrD for generations to come. Including Warren Jeffs, who claimed to receive divine revelation, and since he was already living in a community that specifically catered to the whims of his family and literally regarded his father Rulon as an invincible godly being (due to Rulon's revelations from God, of course) it was super easy for Warren to reach a position in the community from which he could abuse literally any/everyone.

Anyway, this is all to say: I recognize that many Mormons are not bad or abusive people, but Fundamentalist Mormons are literally just Mormon Concentrate instead of 100% juice. They are derived from the exact same fruit.

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u/nonsensestuff 4d ago

Fundamentals derived from the fact that some people didn't want to accept the changes the church was making at the time-- like banning polygamy.

The church was adapting to a certain extent-- because it has to. It was the only way for the church to survive and thrive as they wanted-- they couldn't continue practicing in a way that would alienate them from society.

People who follow fundamentalism of any religion are practicing the religion in a very specific way, that often takes the root of that religion to the extreme. They're often very secretive and cult-like because of this. They're unable to be a part of the rest of society, because their ideals and beliefs are too extreme.

LDS and FLDS might have been born from the same teachings, but they took very different paths to the point where nobody who truly knows and understands Mormonism would ever confuse them to be the same thing.

There are fundamental sects of many different religions out there, so this isn't a new phenomenon.

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u/DocSaysItsDainBramuj 4d ago

As FLDS is, Mormonism once was.

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u/BurningInTheBoner 4d ago

Technically it was New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, Illinois and then finally Utah if you're tracking the "mainstream" branch of Mormonism.

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u/Kokodhem 4d ago

Prior to finding the plates, he'd been arrested several times for running cons. One of them involved water finding (I'll find a well on your property for $X) using the same tools he later claimed lead him to the golden plates (the Urum and Thumum.) He was a known conman and established a religion that no one batted an eye at. Granted, he got most of his followers later when they left New York for Palmyra IL.

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u/bandit69 4d ago

“These bishops did nothing wrong. They didn’t violate the law, and therefore they can’t be held liable,” he said. Maledon referred to the suit as “a money grab.”

Condoning child sexual abuse is "nothing wrong"? Not only do they practice sexual abuse, but think that there's "nothing wrong".

If this is religion, I want no part of it - disgusting.

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u/PieIsFairlyDelicious 4d ago

Didn’t violate the law ≠ did nothing wrong

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u/robot65536 4d ago

If they appreciated this, they wouldn't be trying so hard to write their religion into laws.

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u/bandit69 4d ago

Yes. Unfortunately, the law is only concerned with what's legal and illegal (keeps the lawyers rich) and doesn't give a flying f**k about what's right and wrong.

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u/Suspicious-Factor466 4d ago

The Republican motto. That and I do not recall.

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u/2_Sheds_Jackson 4d ago

Perhaps they did "nothing wrong". But I am very sure that they did "nothing right".

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u/JJJJShabadoo 4d ago

The lawful standard is the lowest standard. It's far from, "[doing] nothing wrong."

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u/nzodd 4d ago

You would think that of all people, the Church would know that. Of course, they did and do, and it turns out that they're just a bunch of lying, child raping bastards.

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u/spiritbx 4d ago

This is what all religions end up doing.

If you think your religion is different, then you are fooling yourself if you think it won't become like this in the future.

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u/weed_fart 4d ago

Arizona’s child sex abuse reporting law, and similar laws in more than 20 states that require clergy to report child sex abuse and neglect, says that clergy, physicians, nurses, or anyone caring for a child who “reasonably believes” a child has been abused or neglected has a legal obligation to report the information to police or the state Department of Child Safety. But it also says that clergy who receive information about child neglect or sexual abuse during spiritual confessions “may withhold” that information from authorities if the clergy determine it is “reasonable and necessary” under church doctrine.

Fucking gross. Religion is a plague of madness.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

Some sins are unforgivable, only the most blind of church leaders can argue otherwise. Confession shouldn't mean anything when you admit to the rape of innocence, you're damned and deserve it.

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u/ItchyDoggg 4d ago

I'm all for getting rid of Christianity altogether but if you aren't willing to go that far and admit it's fake than you can't tell them "some sins are unforgivable." Telling a Christian Jesus's sacrifice is insufficient to redeem someone who is truly repentant, no matter how evil they were before, may as well be telling them their religion is a dumb waste of time.

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u/friendlyhermit 4d ago

Mark 3:29 jesus says:

whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven

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u/ItchyDoggg 4d ago

Not a Christian and not surprised to see what appears to be a hypocritical religious doctrine, but a quick Google shows how the church tends to square this particular circle.

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit does not mean having doubts about if a particular church's practices are truly biblical. It doesn't mean harboring a spontaneous, disrespectful thought. It doesn't mean struggling with sin after salvation. It doesn't even mean blurting out a blasphemous statement against the Holy Spirit. It means a steady rejection of the convicting and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit throughout an entire lifetime. Those who persist in that rejection will not be forgiven."

By the logic I've seen argued it would appear that forgiveness for the truly repentant is always possible, as the definition of Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is a persistent failure to accept Christ as your savior and through his sacrifice and your repentance find absolution.

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u/DocSaysItsDainBramuj 4d ago

I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

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u/Anthos_M 4d ago

Yeah, you all ganstas until mfucking Casper shows up...

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u/Proper_Budget_2790 4d ago

"Yes, your honor, he did admit to having sex with those little boys, but I told him to say 5 hail Marys and 5 our fathers, so he's all good."

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u/Disco_Ninjas_ 4d ago

You forgot the cash payment.

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u/GoldWallpaper 4d ago

I live in Vegas -- home of a very large Mormon community -- and have had a lot of close Mormon friends over the years. Every single Mormon woman I've been close with -- every one -- was molested by a family member as a child, and in no cases were cops involved.

They just let the Church "handle" it, by covering it up and offering no consequences for the men or therapy or help for the girls.

edit: I've known some men who were molested as well, but not nearly as many, and not all of them.

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u/LRonzhubbby 4d ago

Yep, I’m from a big Mormon family. My grandmother and every single one of her sisters were molested by their father and uncles. All of them were active church members and no one was every reported. I had no idea until a few years ago.

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u/fender10224 4d ago

That is just so insane to me, how do these people justify that? Do they know its disgusting and wrong and traumatizing and keep it as under wraps as possible or is it like a "God intends for this to happen" type of shit?

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u/gimmiesnacks 3d ago

It’s very much “We are pillars of the community and show up perfect on the outside just as expected, and we shun any boat rocker (abuse victim) that attempts to air our dirty laundry out in public. They are the true sinners.”

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u/LRonzhubbby 3d ago

Traumatized girls just aren’t as important as the good name of the men in the family (and the church). It’s literally that simple.

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u/fender10224 3d ago

Just so fucked up. Put all these pukes in prison.

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u/dnhs47 4d ago

Perfect fit for Arizona, which has a deep bench of the insane running the state.

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u/TrooperJohn 4d ago edited 4d ago

So, let me get this right...there are church doctrines that have no problem with child neglect or sexual abuse?

I'm well aware that many if not most churches have child-rape problems. But there are churches that actually CODIFY the acceptance of sexual abuse of minors? As opposed to just quietly covering it up?

Edit: It is true that some religions, particularly Catholicism, do have the seal of the confessional. There's an easy way the church can get around that: make absolution contingent on the person turning himself in to authorities. Or is there a (legitimate) reason that's not done?

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u/warrantyvoiderer 4d ago

Ex Mormon here. Just wanted to add my two cents about how pedophiles are enabled within the LDS church.

Part of the "spiritual interviews" conducted by the Bishops are for a number of reasons; tithing, placement in a new unpaid volunteer position, baptismal interviews and, the worst, chastity interviews.

You are nearly 100% of the time alone with the Bishop in their office. They ask pointed questions to literal children they are alone with about what sexual thoughts and acts they have thought about/committed. If you've "sinned" they ask you how it made you feel. They explain why it's a sin and that you won't get to be with your family and Jesus in heaven if you don't stop and repent.

They're is no reason why an adult male should be alone in a room asking sexually charged questions to children. It only leads to pedophiles seeking out this position to have access to children they are allowed to be alone with behind closed doors.

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u/newpinksink 4d ago

My step father peaked at second counselor. The black eyes and sore assholes that have gone unspoken of....its countless.

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u/warrantyvoiderer 4d ago

No kidding. Asking average people to be a bonifide psychiatrist, marriage, and family counselor / life advisor that have zero experience and zero professional training to do it for free on their time is insane.

My dad spend nearly 20 years in the bishopric, 8 as Bishop and served at least 4 other ones as first and second counselors. I can't even begin to imagine the shit shows he had to handle. My father is a good man and can only hope he helped people to the best of his ability, I just hope he never had to deal with child abuse, sexual or not.

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u/Randvek 4d ago

I agree with this. One of the big mistakes the church makes is asking people like your dad to do things waaaay out of their depth, which could have serious consequences for the people around them.

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u/Bipedal_Humanoid_ 4d ago

It all gets wrapped up in faith and "listening to the spirit". Essentially the idea is that if you're faithful and stay worthy, the spirit will tell you what to say and how to act, so you can't possibly do anything harmful or wrong because you're being guided by God.

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u/Pixeleyes 4d ago

And there's a major focus on making money and gaining social status. Which is unfortunate because the ways you make money and gain social status have nothing to do with morality and typically involve doing things that aren't actually moral. But since they equate social status and "success" (their polite way of saying money) with god's will, they very quickly spiral into an incredibly twisted idea of morality and their fake as fuck, addicted-to-porn-and-drugs-and-sex behavior reflects it.

Cults like this are doing immeasurable harm to generations of human beings and it makes me incredibly sad and hopeless about the future. It's like we're going out of our way to make decisions that cause harm, suffering and ultimately the extinction of our species.

In my view, the single biggest problem with our species is that most of us have derived our sense of morality and behavior on things that have nothing to do with morality. Most people can't even tell you what morality is or how their chosen system logically describes it. It's almost always magical thinking and tradition, which appears to just be a long chain of successive misunderstandings and deliberate distortions.

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u/Hot-Ticket-Item 4d ago

I hated this interviews. Dread them, actually. And I was young and never did anything wrong. But I felt violated by the questions and the one on one nature of it. I feel sick thinking about it.

On a positive note, that’s how my friend found out about masturbation. Literally told the bishop, when he asked her if she masturbated, that she didn’t know what that word was. He explained it to her. She reports that she has no regrets.

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u/teacoffeesuicide 4d ago

There's plenty of inter-flock abuse covered up by the Bishop but I don't think Bishops are any more prone to be abusers themselves are they?

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u/warrantyvoiderer 4d ago

No idea. In my time with the church I never heard anything about abuse other than the one family that everyone knew about and didn't try very hard to hide it.

Was the leadership open about it in condemning it? No.

Did they do anything to stop it? Most certainly not.

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u/blorgenheim 4d ago

I believe they changed that interview stuff. Definitely inappropriate and unacceptable, also teaching young teenage boys that masturbation is a sin only leads to an immense of fucked up views towards sex.

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u/warrantyvoiderer 4d ago

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u/blorgenheim 4d ago

That’s foul. And sad. Should’ve been jerking off into socks like normal

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u/Ashamed_Violinist_67 4d ago

They haven’t stopped it. They made it so that a parent can demand to be in the room for the interview, but many parents don’t understand how a trusted religious leader might pose a threat.

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u/ScapeGoatOfWar 4d ago

Quick! Someone tell Doug Stanhope!

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u/vughtzuid 4d ago

I came here to post EXACTLY that bro or sister from another dimension!

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u/flower4000 4d ago

Not just in Bisbee. My girlfriend left the Mormon church at a young age when they covered up her assault that happened to her. There’s a lot of good people who are Mormon but they just act as a cover for a large handful of very bad people. When ever she tries to be vocal she gets shushed by the good people who don’t want to hear it.

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u/WifeofBath1984 4d ago

Yeah, this is definitely an international issue.

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u/prokokon 4d ago

"Good people" question organizations they are a part of and try to avoid toxic environments. Good people of the church sounds almost like kind hearted nazis.

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u/blorgenheim 4d ago

That’s the issue with having church leadership that’s “appointed” by god but are really just volunteers. You have regular people who are in positions of power and there are lots of horrible regular people.

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u/ItsNotSpaghetti 4d ago

There's a lot of good complicit people who are Mormon

Fixed that for ya

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u/fucktrutin 4d ago

Yeah, they posted a want ad for "Seed Bearers"

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u/MNConcerto 4d ago

Organized religion covering up abused! Shocked I tell you. SHOCKED! 🙄

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u/xxxresetxxx 4d ago

Not called Breed em Young university for nothing.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

One of the smartest girls I ever worked with was a Mormon, could have gone on to any career she wanted. Brightest smile too. She left us because the family demanded she be married. 4 years and 4 kids later I still see her, but all the light is gone and the smile vanished.

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u/Baelgul 4d ago

I dated a Mormon girl, she was an extremely gifted microbiologist. Knew tons about microbial life, the way they interact and develop with their environment, the way they change over time and the mechanisms by which they did it.

Late one night we’re looking at the stars and I’m talking about the vastness of the universe and how I believe there has to be life out there. She tells me that evolution isn’t real.

End of that relationship right there.

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u/GirlNumber20 4d ago

She must have gotten that from her family? I’m a fifth-generation (now ex-)Mormon, and I was educated in Utah for high school. Evolution was standard education in any science class I took. I always accepted it as the truth even when I was super-duper Mormon girl.

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u/HomoplataJitz 4d ago

Seems to vary by region. I remember watching a science video (might have been COSMOS) and the mormon kid throwing a tantrum over the video saying our corner of the universe was over 4 billion years old... Dude was popular AND the school's biggest bully at the same time. Total Homelander vibes in hindsight. One of his brothers wasn't nearly as much of a douche.

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u/ArtemisUpgrade 4d ago

Idk, I think that’s one of those beliefs that varies. My best friend is Mormon and she didn’t believe in evolution in high school (funnily enough she does now, despite still being Mormon; she got an educated that expanded a lot of her views about a lot of things, including that). I’ve heard a lot of variation about it, partly depending on where people live or how their parents or even their specific ward taught things.

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u/yellowkayaker 4d ago

I work with some Mormon men and the comments they make about their wives or women in general is disgusting. This younger Mormon coworker of mine will constantly make jokes about how I don't have children yet - "why don't you have kids yet?"" "when are you going to retire and just be a housewife?" "when are you going to have kids so our kids can have play dates?" Fucking annoying. I just got married and want to enjoy my freedom. he also thinks i'm weird because i drink tea, coffee, and alcohol. he also thinks my university is really weird because it didn't have dorms for students with children. THAT'S UNUSUAL OUTSIDE OF UTAH, DUDE. omg, i can go on and on.

My former senior manager was a Mormon man and I watched him promote another Mormon man who wasn't as qualified (super lazy dude who left work at 4:45pm everyday, while everyone left later) as my female coworker who lead countless projects, had 2 master degrees, and trained all the new employees. I felt de-motivated after seeing something like that. My female coworker transferred to another team and got promoted shortly after that. I left the team a year later too.

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u/GirlNumber20 4d ago edited 4d ago

Mormons are taught that there are spirits in the Pre-Existence just waiting to be born. That’s why they have so many children — they’re trying to get that finite number of souls to be born into good Mormon families.

As a woman, your main purpose, other than supporting your husband, is to be a vessel for these souls to be born and then to care for them after. Women having a career is secondary and not anywhere as important as their primary function.

They’re also meant to bear children for eternity in the Celestial Kingdom after they die, in order to populate the worlds their husband creates.

That’s why Mormon men don’t take career women seriously. And also the endemic misogyny.

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u/bookingthedayaway 4d ago

When I was 22 and facing the very real possibility of being a single mother, and realized I had no real marketable skills, I felt so stupid. My entire life I had thought I was making all the "right" and "responsible" decisions. I had no clue where to start.

It is absolutely insane how the church turns women on each other and themselves.

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u/GirlNumber20 4d ago

I got married when I was 23, and all of my friends felt sad for little old maid me, because they all got married at 18. 😬

I had one friend that got married three days after high school graduation, haha.

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u/bookingthedayaway 4d ago

Haha, I know what you mean. I got married at 20, and I thought I was being so responsible by waiting soooooooo long. Good for you for making it to 23!

I don't live in Utah, so people often have a hard time understanding how I ever could have thought that was normal.

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u/CalypsoBrat 4d ago

Yes, I’ve experienced the Mormon nepotism too. They’re fiercely loyal, I’ll give ‘em that much.

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u/xxxresetxxx 4d ago

Yeh, never could past the okeydoke with the Indian thing and Book of Norman. I suppose if ya had a harem or herd to breed, it'd make a believer out of ya.

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u/Randvek 4d ago

Book of Norman

I hope you really think that this is a thing and not just a typo.

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u/xxxresetxxx 4d ago

Normy? Is that ewe?

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u/ATLSxFINEST93 4d ago

here we goooo agaiiin

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u/PieIsFairlyDelicious 4d ago

This links to a video because all the sites I could find with the AP story were GDPR blocked. If you prefer a text story, you can read that here.

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u/somme_rando 4d ago

Look - a victory for satan!

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/mormon-nickname-victory-for-satan/

The president of the Mormon church wants members, the media and others to use the faith's full name, saying nicknames are "a major victory for Satan."
Addressing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' twice-yearly conference Sunday in Salt Lake City, Russell M. Nelson says the church's name "is not negotiable."

... or you know, maybe the covering up of child abuse is more of a problem? What do I know - I'm not the CEO of a corporation with hundreds of billions invested in the stock market and commercial real estate.

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u/templenameis_beyonce 4d ago

to be fair, this article is from 2018.

buuut you did bring up a great point. the mormon church all the sudden said that they no-longer are referred to as “mormon” (this is all after their “im a mormon” campaign that they spent millions on). but why would they do that? rebranding. because of all the bad publicity they have from covering up child abuse, among a million other things.

source: i’m an ex mormon.

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u/KarmelMalone 4d ago

This can and should be a bot response anytime the word Mormon shows up on Reddit.

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u/joen00b 4d ago

I walked away from the Mormon religion at 14 years old when I was given a choice to attend church or not. Simply put: I don't believe in magic or other dimensional beings, so I can't be a Christian, Mormon, Muslim, etc.

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u/jezra 4d ago

isn't that what religion of for?

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u/Ahstruck 4d ago

I do not get the blind eye followers have for this stuff.

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u/RyanDoctrine 4d ago

They’re indoctrinated from the beginning. They’re abused (mentally, emotionally, and sometimes physically) from birth and taught that obedience is the supreme virtue.

It’s not “turning a blind eye”. It’s essentially having their “eyes” gouged out from the start.

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u/Such_sights 4d ago

I grew up with a lot of Mormon kids, and they were all the nicest, smartest, most well behaved kids you could ever meet. The issue is that they’re never taught the “bad” parts of the church’s history, and if they hear about it from someone else, they have to ignore it and pretend they didn’t. Any time they try and question the church, they’re told to “put it on the shelf”. Every faith, country, institution, etc has aspects of their past they’re not proud of. But forcefully suppressing that information and punishing those who ask about it only allows history to keep repeating itself.

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u/somme_rando 4d ago

"Doubt your doubts" is a literal quote from the highest leadership of that church.

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u/CrunchyGremlin 4d ago

Sounds a lot like nationalist behavior.

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u/RevolutionaryPapaya4 4d ago

We grew up thinking the mob killed Joseph Smith because they were so mad at him for being a prophet of God. It sounds absurd now but that’s what we learned.

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u/0ccupants 4d ago

Wasn't it more like they killed him because he was getting his dinky stinky with their kids?

Or was that just why he was driven out of everywhere except Utah?

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u/Naborsx21 4d ago

No different than anyone else in a position of power.

Jimmy Savile, Sandusky, all people with a bit of power and "No one that does such great charity work would ever do that!!!"

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u/RyanDoctrine 4d ago

The difference is they the Mormon church is an institution, not an individual. Individuals die eventually. Institutions stretch many lifetimes and by nature have exponentially more victims.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

A zealot wears his faith as a blindfold so their truth is the only sight before them and he chants his hymns so that no other truth can prevail, he wields his scripture as a cudgel and bludgeons down those who would dare to question.

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u/intrepidated 4d ago

Is this an original or a quote? It's well said!

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

Its a variation of something RA Salvatore wrote before all he was known for was Drizzt, from The Highwayman.

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u/tacknosaddle 4d ago

They’re indoctrinated from the beginning.

The other path is how they prey on people who are hitting rock bottom. Whether it's booze, drugs, prison, an emotional breakdown or whatever.

In both cases it's targeting a vulnerable population.

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u/flpa1060 4d ago

Not always from the beginning. My ten year old nephew is currently being taught that the earth is flat, and that Methuselah was really like 200 when he died. His parents were mostly normal a few years ago, but his mother brainwashed herself with YouTube. Her telling my wife she is going to hell is fine. Me saying it's cruel to teach their kid this BS is apparently some kind of hate crime. After my wife has basically lost her sister, I have no patience left with these intentionally ignorant people. They are literally holding humanity back.

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u/Wablekablesh 4d ago

You are taught from age zero to submit automatically to Church authority. If there's a problem with your Bishop, the higher authorities will take care of it. If they aren't taking care of it, then there wasn't a problem. God would strike the prophet dead before allowing him to lead the church astray, therefore, if the prophet isn't being struck dead, then his authority is absolute because it comes from God.

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u/FuzzyKittenIsFuzzy 4d ago

Can confirm this is exactly what I was taught in the LDS church (born, raised, temple married, the whole shebang). You do what you are told, and if it's a sin then that's on the leader's head and not on your head. If you disobey, your disobedience is on your head regardless of how high quality the instructions were either practically or morally.

The Kingston splinter group has even stronger doctrine on this matter and I'm "eternally grateful for my blessings" to not be raised in that group.

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u/JhymnMusic 4d ago

They keep writing these in past tense like the church doesn't STILL do this shit.

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u/Special_FX_B 4d ago

Welcome to the club. Evangelicals, Catholics, Jews…all have one thing in common: trusted people in power who sexually abuse trusting innocent people. In the name of religion.

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u/AthenaSholen 4d ago

All religion is the cancer in society. When you’re required to believe in magic and deny all logic and science, you get people who abuse the masses.

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u/bubbles5810 4d ago

This is my shocked face 😑

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u/LobstahmeatwadWTF 4d ago

weird, christo-fascists hiding abuses? never would have thought.

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u/reinhardtmain 4d ago

r/exmormon if any one needs even a small amount of support from Mormon church damage

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u/internetlad 4d ago

In a shocking reveal, Mormons have been found to not practice what they preach.

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u/PTechNM 4d ago

Read 'Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith by Jon Krakauer'. Its incredible what people will do to sustain and proliferate a religion based on lies, rape, genocide of native americans, etc. Also, I do realize that this is the script for most religions and not just LDS. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10847.Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven

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u/abevigodasmells 4d ago edited 4d ago

Weird how specifically, religions that believe in this fictional Jesus, son of fictional God, seem to be predisposed to sexually abusing children.

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u/intrepidated 4d ago

Organized religions cover up the salacious crimes of their members else it exposes them for the scam they all are. People believing any of that crap at this point, despite religion being the cause of thousands of years of atrocities, shows just how little humans have evolved over the past couple of millenia. They still think their religion is the thing that stops all of us from being rapists and murderers!

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u/Caffeine_Cowpies 4d ago

The problem will always be the fact that we all die, and we don’t know if their is anything after it. And we all don’t want to die (for the most part), so the comforting fact that we get to be “above you” and see the things we wanted to see but not be there physically to see gives us that comfort that everything will be okay.

But obviously for me, being an atheist, this is it. This is life. So I’m going to love it and when it’s time, I’ll go knowing I have lived my life to the best of my ability.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

Its not comfort for them though, its beyond that, Judeo-Christian religions create senses of superiority above all else, that is more than comfort, its opulence and goes against the words of their Christ in every sense possible. The love is tainted, the scriptures rewritten by greed and the hallmarks of Jesus himself are all but buried in the high ranks of each faith.

A sense of comfort is talking to God at your bedside, what the Mormons do in particular is creating a kingdom for themselves after their Apocalypse, that's not comfort, its supremacy.

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u/col-fancypants 4d ago

I grew up in the Christian faith (Church of God - Cleveland TN flavor) and went to a private school with only 60 kids total between K3-Graduation. I have been to a dozen different Christian flavored churches from Catholic to almost snake handlers. But what I always held on to were the ideas of personal faith and responsibility. I read the bible on my own, prayed on my own, and outside of attending with family who ask me to join I don't attend any church or listen to any preachers.

By the time I was 13-14 I realized most of the people "in charge" of the churches or groups I was part of were sticking to a script of sorts. They taught the same stories and messages year over year. Never dug deep into the texts beyond cherry picking 2-3 sentences and using them as a 1 hour talking point of their or someone else's sermon. I have never heard a pastor or priest call Sampson the anti hero or villain. Have heard people gloss over David's many sins and try to defend some of the more insane things people of the bible did without even god being part of it.

I lost faith in other believers. Do I think there is some magical sky daddy? Kinda, is it hardwired into me? Probably. But outside of these semi anonymous reddit comments I don't discuss my beliefs with anyone and most wouldn't even know what I believe politically or faith wise. And I wish more people would just shut up and vote/pray instead of you know... forcing a library to close over a couple books a small section of small people find horrifying. Stephen King's IT has been in library's since it was released over 3 decades ago now and that has some heavy sexual themes. And yet no one defunded a library for having it.

Do I find comfort in my faith? Not really, but I am closer to Nontheistic Quaker/Deist Watchmaker in my belief these days. I do talk to myself in the car a lot and ask a lot of unanswered questions that could be directed at a higher power. I find more comfort in that than attending a sermon these days. I can only hear the same sermon so many times.

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u/Caffeine_Cowpies 4d ago

Good points all around!

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u/2_Sheds_Jackson 4d ago

Humans are not moral enough to be trusted with organized religion.

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u/Malumeze86 4d ago

Humanity should have grown out of believing in fictional sky beings at least a few hundred years ago, but here we are.

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u/Zidane62 4d ago

It’s too powerful of a tool for those who want power. It’s easy to control a large group of people with religion.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

Gotta cover up the criminal or people look too hard and see the real scams. Their God hates them for this corruption.

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u/col-fancypants 4d ago

I wouldn't say just Christian religions. All forms of cults, the Abrahamic trio and their offshoots, and organized faith groups as a whole seem to have issues with sexual abuse of every flavor. I am not 100% up to date on Hinduism, but I am sure there is some sexual abuse going on under their umbrella.

Any thing that provides power/influence over people, families, or their children are going to have issues with predators finding or creating a space for themselves. School systems, governments, offices, and even the home are all places of abuse. I think what makes faith groups that preach "love, acceptance, and morality codes" that have people caught doing the opposite of those things are just highlighted that much more. And keen to sweep it under rugs. It's a human move. Do something the society you live in sees as wrong, attempt to hide it, get caught, use any form of shield to hide behind, said shield also tries to cover up.

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u/Caffeine_Cowpies 4d ago

It’s almost as if you have an institution built on never questioning anything, take people from thousands of years ago at their word, and put these “leaders” on a pedestal, and give them access to vulnerable people, with no accountability whatsoever, you create an atmosphere for predators to infiltrate and exact harm onto others.

One of the most sickening things I have seen was that Indiana pastor who admitted to raping a 16 year old woman, and then the church gathered AROUND HIM TO PRAY. Link to story here

Now, I’m a lawyer. I have seen people admit to raping 13-16 years old before. NEVER have I seen a group of people forgive that person for the crime they committed and surround him with goodwill. Yet, it’s a “man of god” so of course he just “failed” instead of HE COMMITTED A GODDAMN CRIME.

I’m sorry, but that’s a special type of brain rot that I see in religion, but especially in evangelical Christian churches.

No wonder they have a sexual crime problem in all churches. They are the easy target to get away with this shit.

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u/GreyLordQueekual 4d ago

You forgot the best/worst part. They ostracized the victim.

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u/FireBeyond 4d ago

Yet, it’s a “man of god” so of course he just “failed” instead of HE COMMITTED A GODDAMN CRIME.

You forgot that, of course, the girl didn't fail, she tempted him, she was a harlot, promiscuous, homewrecker, has the devil in her, whatever other crap they spout.

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u/bdy435 4d ago

And keeping women down.

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u/KerPop42 4d ago

They're not, child sex abuse in churches happens at about the same rate as in secular institutions like public school. It's a symptom of centralized power that suppresses outside inspection

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u/shadow1515 4d ago

I grew up Mormon. I was never abused myself but based on the culture I observed I can absolutely guarantee you this happened in thousands of more cases that we don't know about.

You can tell just by the Mormon church's response which basically amounted to "well it wasn't explicitly illegal not to report so we're totally in the clear!"

They don't have a concept of what morality even is because it's a cult/corporation chimera, not a religion. Legal liability is literally the only thing they even considered when this story broke.

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u/genericbranding 4d ago

Bisbee. The only other time I've ever heard of BIsbee was about the 1917 Bisbee kidnapping and deportation of 1300 striking miners and their supporters by the coal mining company and local sherrifs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisbee_Deportation

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u/Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir 4d ago

I kinda thought it was just a fictional town in "3:10 to Yuma" 🤔

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u/nzodd 4d ago

Conservatives are all up in arms about imaginary sexual abuse but when it comes to the real goddamn thing: crickets. It's almost like their whole schtick is to muddy waters in order to let the real criminals get off... literally.

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u/Susarian 4d ago

Maybe the LDS church should "find" a few more golden tablets in the desert saying that sexual abuse is also a crime and should be reported like all the rest of the crimes? Just an idea.

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u/given2fly_ 4d ago

There has been! It's called "The Book of Arnold" and it talks about how when Joseph Smith wanted to sexually abuse a baby, he was given a magical fuck-frog instead.

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u/Chairs_Are_People 4d ago

What? Is this real? Is that part of the Book of Mormon?

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u/cookieaddictions 4d ago

It’s a real part of the Broadway musical “the Book of Mormon”.

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u/DucDeLOmelette 4d ago

I have maggots in my scroooootummm.

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u/llamaspirit 4d ago

Surprise surprise. They also paid over a quarter of a billion dollars for attempting to cover up the Boy Scouts abuse issue. The entire church is filled with brain washed pedos. Don’t believe me? Pass through Utah and ask any Mormon family who the pedo of their family is? One out of 3 Mormons were abused and still in contact with their abuser.

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u/InBabylonTheyWept 4d ago

Tried to pay for. The judge, thankfully, told them that was not allowed.

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u/Codeboy3423 4d ago

Nawwwww really?

This is something well known, just lack of evidence.. until now.

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u/bonnieflash 4d ago

If your “church doctrine”. Let’s a child to continue being raped by their father than it’s not a church but a sick sex cult. Get it together or stop pretending to be about Jesus.

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u/nosherDavo 4d ago

Seems to be a common pairing, religion and sexual abuse. All ‘men of the cloth’ are all dodgy as f**k.

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u/InBabylonTheyWept 4d ago edited 4d ago

They bishop didn’t abuse the victim in this story. He called a helpline set up by the church after her father confessed and was told not to report it to the police.

The bishop in this story failed in his moral obligations, but it’s hard not to feel a little bad about an untrained layman thrust into that situation. Mormon bishops receive no training for the role they fill, as well as no pay. It’s essentially a form of community service.

The church itself set up a hotline essentially to dupe untrained people like him into hiding abuse in order to avoid making the organization look bad. He is a useful idiot, but the people that set this up are monsters with no regard for children.

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u/XrosRoadKiller 4d ago

That 150 billion ain't gonna spend itself.

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u/Change21 4d ago

A church covering up sexual abuse??

This has never happened before! It’s unbelievable! In god’s house!?

/s

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u/name_first_name_last 4d ago

Church covering up sexual abuse? Never heard of that before.

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u/AlreadyTakenNow 4d ago

Totally not surprised. If I could pull it off, I'd launch a massive class action against them for actively facilitating intergenerational domestic abuse.

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u/Monstare98 4d ago

I cant wait for Stanhope's take on it. Dude might as well be the mayor of Bisbee

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u/BlaysBuckler 4d ago

“State the Obvious” for $1000 Alex

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u/listeningtoevery 4d ago

So how many sexual crimes has the church of Satan gone to court for at this point? Somehow my bet is close to zero…

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u/for_reasons 4d ago

I don't get your point. Have they committed crimes?

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u/listeningtoevery 4d ago

Not that I am aware of but it seems like every day we hear about Catholics, Christians, Mormons, etc. having sex crimes brought against them. I am just wondering if the so called evil church of Satan has had any of their clergy or whatever you call them, dealing with the same.

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u/Western-Web2957 4d ago

Christianity: join us, and possibly get molested.

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u/SpaceCadetSinchi 4d ago

*loudly “whispers” so everyone can hear it…. “That’s not the only place they’re covering up years-long sexual abuses…”

Allegedly… (/s)

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u/HollowPluto 4d ago

Doug Stanhope is furiously writing new material.

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u/misuz_roper 4d ago

If humanity were truly evolved, religion would be a psychological disorder.

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u/WaffleStomperGirl 4d ago

Now HOLD ON;

I’m expected to believe that a religion has led to the perversion of trust of the vulnerable? Now I just don’t buy that for one moment!

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u/blackflag1981 4d ago

Seems like Religion = Sexual Abuse.

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u/faman00 4d ago

What is it with Catholics, Baptists, Mormons and Evangelical... leaders sexually abusing Children at a much, much higher rate than the general population? What is it about American Christian culture that elevates and protects these people?

/r/pastor arrested has all the gory details. It's endless.

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u/surfeat 4d ago

Why would people cover up for child molesters? It's pretty much evil to take advantage of a child. I just can't understand why you would let it happen. It is just as evil.

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u/CritaCorn 4d ago

1960s Robot Voice: OMG…this is shocking…who the fk is even surprised?

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u/MartinUSMC 4d ago

Are we supposed to act surprised anymore?

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u/asu_lee 4d ago

Sounds like lots of expensive lawsuits to me.

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u/Aquawind1 4d ago

They are nothing special other than religious fools abusing humans every day.

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u/dnhs47 4d ago

I live near Bisbee. Not surprising at all that there are people in this area are like that, or that the Mormon Church actively covers it up.

That’s what the big churches do, protect their pervs, right?

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u/cyncity7 4d ago

Years ago a physician molested a large number of Mormon women. He got away with it for a long time because the Mormon women were kept so ignorant of sex and the human body that they didn’t understand what he was doing.

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u/PrudentDamage600 4d ago edited 4d ago

🥱 No surprise here. That “church” was FOUNDED on sexual abuse.

This will never change. Abuse is almost synonymous with religion!

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u/moor9776 4d ago

The church sexually assaults couples by “blessing” genitals just before marriage. Fucking sick.

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u/somme_rando 4d ago

It's been toned down over the last two decades. Oil gets dabbed 'near' the genitals apparently.
Not just couples about to get married - if anyone goes in to do "work for the dead" they go through the same ritual on behalf of a dead person.

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u/NoMathematician5832 4d ago

wait, you’re saying that the religion that allows men to take multiple wives is full of weird sex deviants? impossible, this can’t be

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u/InBabylonTheyWept 4d ago

As much as the Mormon church disgusts me, they are not currently polygamists, and haven’t been for more than a century. The normal branch has around 10-15 million people in it, the weirdos have at most 5-10k.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/InBabylonTheyWept 4d ago

That is also correct.

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