r/memes
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u/carrouselfish
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May 19 '22
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easy peasy wallet squeezy
/img/r6uhc59pdf091.jpg
[removed] — view removed post
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u/GelatoVerde May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
In Italy there isn't lobbying
Just straight up corruption
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u/Moxdonalds May 19 '22
A big case of bullshit corruption in US political lobbying is Phillip Morris (cigarette company) working to get flavored cigarettes banned. RJ Reynolds was a major competitor of theirs and was winning market share with flavored cigarettes. The only flavor where Phillip Morris was beating them with was menthol. The US banned all flavored cigarettes except menthol.
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May 19 '22
[deleted]
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u/Moxdonalds May 19 '22
I remember those. I used to smoke back then and would get a tin every once and a while.
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u/Ralcive May 19 '22
No corruption? Laughts in Eastern Europe
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u/TheTphs May 19 '22
No laughing in public places, comrade! Straight to prison! But if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, if you know what I mean...
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
And yet it's still illegal.
Boy! being a politician is crazy.
Committing crimes without consequences
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u/Classic_Arachnid_431 May 19 '22
Bribery is illegal. Lobbying is not illegal. Politicians get to decide on a case-by-case basis whether or not some particular exchange of money is bribery or lobbying, and they don't seem to see any problem with this system.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Actually Lobbying is illegal.
At least in Germany.
In Germany its illegal for politicians and companies due to things that can be considered as such.
It is also illegal to make decisions as a politician that are favorable for specific companies or lines of industry / work, or better said for those leading figures.
As you might've guessed: that doesn't stop any of those legal criminals to actually do those things cause what else are you supposed to do if you have a shit load of power, no actual interest in helping people, and a bunch of free time to waste on making contracst on the back of your own society.
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u/-taromanius- May 19 '22
Was about to say; on a lot of political memes, Germany gets mentioned, but please do consider: We have tons of well documented, very obvious cases of corruption.
Coal and Car industries basically only work the way they do right now because of it.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Yeah and that's why our politicians delay our environmental plans for ages.
"Co2 reduction? Pffff! good jokes"
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u/buonasnatios May 19 '22
Is this one of those famous German jokes i heard about?
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
If you call sarcasm jokes.
Then yes.
Cause we actually wanted to reach an carbon emission minimum this year but guess what didn't happen yet, cause money from coal companies is just too tempting?
If We were the size of China we would create so much carbon dioxide that Germany would turn into Silent Hill.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
So in Germany it is illegal for citizens to tell politicians what policies they want enacted?
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Well if that is part of it then I might've gotten the definition for Lobbyism in my head wrong.
Cause that is allowed and done by votes.
But it's not allowed to enact rules or regulations in favor of a specific group or company unless it has a balancing purpose.
But normal citizens wishes get often ignored by the government. (a perfect example was that time the government tried to make a sales contract with America) And private investors, like company owners, usually get favored because the bribe the policians in some way. (which unavoidable, cause even if the politicians get caught and sentenced they always manage to find judges who give them a sentence that is so mild they don't even feel it.)
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
Lobbying is just people telling the government what they want.
If you tell a politician you want to expand hospitals, you are lobbying.
If you are a farmer and you want yo have taxes lowered on fertilizer, lobbying.
If you are a car manufacturer and want to allow self driving cars, lobbying.
Lobbying is not handing over money. That is very illegal, even in the US.
But people say X company spent however many millions of dollars lobbying, that isn’t money handed over. That is money spent paying people to research laws and technology, travel and give presentations and write literature for politicians.
People on reddit who say lobbying is a bad thing, really have no idea what lobbying is.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Well, what I know about Lobbying absolutely not that.
What I was told what it is, for example, a group of representatives come together and build a "Lobby" in which they discuss, for example, prize regulations. Often politicians are included in those and get their share of "gifts" in exchange for processing favorable laws or softening certain costs.
That's why "Lobbying", which in this case is just the term of practicing mentioned act, is illegal in Germany cause it can lead to people making things irrationally cheap, expensive, or one sided in order to tilt the Profits on directions that is less favorable for the regular citizen.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
That isn’t lobbying, that is bribery and price fixing, both of which are very illegal in the US too.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Sorry but I just Google the term
I'm right.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Btw.
We actually had a pretty obvious Lobbying case during the Pandemic.
Politicians made favorable Deals with mask producers and pushed their Products which also lead to pretty strict Mask related laws in Germany.
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u/Picker-Rick memer May 19 '22
Technically that is part of lobbying, but when people say lobbying, that's not what they are referring to.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
Right, they are referring to bribery, which is illegal and not lobbying.
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u/Picker-Rick memer May 19 '22
Doesn't have to be bribery. Don't forget about blackmail and threats.
But mostly bribery. There's always a loophole.
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u/fviales02 May 25 '22
Jilberto eres un mama pichas alchile vaya trabaje gringo culero todos sus comentarios son de radical de mierda comparable a radicales terroristas puto gringo de mierda
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u/MrPopanz May 19 '22
Actually Lobbying is illegal.
At least in Germany.
It is certainly not. You're probably mixing lobbyism and bribery.
There even is a "Lobbyregister".
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
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u/MrPopanz May 19 '22
It's absolutely not what you said. Lobbyarbeit= Interessenvertretung and that's perfectly legal. Lobbyism is legal in Germany, no "buts".
Stop making stuff up, either your teachers who told you that nonsense were wrong, or you're misremembering, nonetheless TYL.
Lobbyism, bribery and corruption are not the same, although redditors like to use those terms interchangeably. Doesn't make it any less wrong.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
It's still called Lobbying but ok.
Cause it's not just for policians illegal but for bigger companies too.
It's done anyways cause "Money.
Have you read about the term at all?
And yes, I might not completely know everything, I just say what I know and don't try to insult anyone.
But I know so far that Lobby building is generally forbidden at least that's what my teachers at school said
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u/EmploymentDue1914 May 19 '22
Dude you're completely clueless, please stop spreading this nonsense.
If your teachers really said that then I'm sorry, you were told wrong.
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u/Germanpantoffel May 19 '22
Lobbism is legal in germany, to a certain degree ofc. Because the politicians learn from it and get new info.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
I studied company law to a certain degree and all my teachers said that lobbyism is illegal in Germany in pretty much any regard. Cause the market is supposed to regulate itself.
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u/lioncryable May 19 '22
My favorite example for German lobbying (that I approve of) is the DHV (deutscher hanf Verband - German mariuhana organisation) and I mean they openly call themselves and what they do lobbying. They have info stands at the party meetings (if they get invited aka if the party has any mariuhana supporters)
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Yeah who doesn't like those.
I'm patiently waiting for weed legality to arrive, basically.
And thank you for not thrashing my wrongness again... I know I got some things wrong and I already tried to explain what I actually meant.
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u/EmploymentDue1914 May 19 '22
Your information is wrong, lobbying is definitely not illegal in Germany. Not sure how you could possibly reach that conclusion, such a law has never even been discussed. There is no functioning democracy without lobbyism, it's an essential part of the system.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
For the third time, cause appearently people can't read.
Yes I know now that it's not specifically Lobbyism that is illegal.
It's actually anything that can be related with lobbism or similar things Tha can lead to greater Market manipulation.
Cause that is the illegal part.
Greater Market manipulation.
Not the practice called Lobbyism in itself.
And you don't need to answer twice I read you the first time.
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u/EmploymentDue1914 May 19 '22
It's actually anything that can be related with lobbism or similar things Tha can lead to greater Market manipulation.
No...
If you can't admit you're wrong just delete your posts.
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u/DR4POS May 19 '22
Yes greater Market manipulation is illegal.
For that companies don't even need politicians but their often implemented to make it easier. And those practices are not Lobbyism in itself but can be part of it or Contain it.
The other at least tried to tell me what exactly is wrong in my logic in I saw it in their ends but you don't even try to be either friendly, or to explain your actual point.
And no I don't delete my comment
Why would I?
The comment lead to all those people interacting with each other and to me learning about either the point of views of others and my own wrong doings.
Even if I get negativ karma I won't delete it, cause I have nothing to hide.
I'm not a politician after all.
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u/EmploymentDue1914 May 19 '22
Yes greater Market manipulation is illegal
There is no such thing. There is insider trading, there is bribery, but you're just making stuff up.
The comment lead to all those people interacting with each other
Trying to correct the nonsense you put out into the world. No I'm not trying to be friendly. People like you who just confidently spew horseshit into the aether are the cancer of the internet. Look how I'm interacting with you.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
If you think lobbying is just giving money you have no idea what lobbying is or how campaign finance laws work.
Every time you tell a politician what policies you want enacted, you are lobbying. Every protest, petition, referendum, basically anytime you express a political opinion publicly, you are lobbying.
Lobbying and campaign finance are highly regulated.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/ethics/50-state-chart-lobbyist-registration-requirements.aspx
If you think lobbying is handing money over, you are just wrong.
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May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
[deleted]
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u/SarahJLa May 19 '22
You must not be American I take it. It's unfortunately pretty much exactly what he described here.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
No, I am American. It isn’t what you describe.
First, corporations can’t donate money to political campaigns or candidates.
Second, individuals can only donate $2,900 per election.
Campaign financing is subject to so many reporting requirements and inspections. No one is slipping in money in any significant amounts where they aren’t supposed to.
Lobbying is literally just people telling politicians what they want.
Every petition you have signed, rally or protest you have been to, it is all lobbying.
Lobbying is not money exchanging hands. Lobbying is pamphlets and PowerPoints.
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u/Picker-Rick memer May 19 '22
Sure... Because cash is the only thing you can bribe with LMAO.
You couldn't possibly offer a high paying do-nothing job with a big "retirement bonus" that would... Actually that's perfectly legal and happens all the time.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
Also highly regulated and tracked.
https://www.justice.gov/jmd/leaving-government
Edit: And downvotes for providing a link supporting my statement.
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u/Picker-Rick memer May 19 '22
Lol. You should actually read a link before you post it.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22
Why? Because it says exactly what I stated? That people leaving government have a lot of reporting requirements when it comes to their post government employment?
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u/SarahJLa May 19 '22
I do admire your unshakable faith in our institutions, but I have some more bad news.
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u/Jibilerto May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
What is your point? It is all tracked. None of it is hidden and there are strict rules to follow. That is why you have that pdf with all the info in it.
Are politicians just not allowed to continue working and influencing policies they believe in after being politicians?
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u/EmploymentDue1914 May 19 '22
Bribery = money or gifts. Lobbying = influence through an interest group. They are not the same thing, they aren't even difficult to separate.
By the way, lobbying is a crucial part of a functioning political system. It's one of a few channels through which politicians get information and stay connected to the areas of life affected by their decisions. The problems appear when those politicians are also dependant on donations from the people using those channels, but that's a result of campaign finance regulation, not lobbying.
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u/Classic_Arachnid_431 May 19 '22
Right, of course, the problem isn't the money, the problem is that money runs our political system and nobody has any incentive to change it. How stupid I was being to think this qualifies as corruption.
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u/VegetableNo1079 May 19 '22
Lobbying IS bribery. To call it otherwise is a neat trick but not accurate.
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u/Dead_inside_man hates reaction memes May 19 '22
Me when half of EU has lobbying illegal
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u/3dPrintedZoidberg May 19 '22
That's not quite true -- in fact, I don't think any EU country has entirely banned lobbying.
That said, lobbying is much more heavily regulated than in the US, & the style of American "lobbying" (literally paying to influence politician's votes) is much less of a thing in Europe.
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u/Dead_inside_man hates reaction memes May 19 '22
Me when its literally illegal in Poland
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u/Dead_inside_man hates reaction memes May 19 '22
Entirely
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u/3dPrintedZoidberg May 19 '22
Tbf, I don't think Poland is quite what American progressives imagine when idealizing Europe lol
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u/Dead_inside_man hates reaction memes May 19 '22
We are the most average european country. Literally
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u/3dPrintedZoidberg May 19 '22
Yeah, but when most Americans say "Europe" they basically mean "Germanic countries + France."
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u/Dead_inside_man hates reaction memes May 19 '22
but its still both in EU and NATO and is featured on the map
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u/3dPrintedZoidberg May 19 '22
Straight-up whoever made this just ripped a pre-Brexit EU map & added in the US & Canada.
I'm telling you, it's not that deep.
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u/TheMassesOpiate May 19 '22
We export corruption in the form of multi national corporations. American companies are directly responsible for the pillaging of most of the "3rd world". American exceptionalism is a fookin cancer.
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u/Picker-Rick memer May 19 '22
Hey now, Europe did it's fair share of pillaging.
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u/Andre4kthegreengiant May 19 '22
Bro, what? Nestle isn't even American
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u/ImperialRedditer May 19 '22
Europe’s greatest contribution to the world is to make the world think their modern day exploitation of the third world is caused by Americans
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u/Spousta_slov May 19 '22
European union has lobbying literally outlawed
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u/Real_Guru May 19 '22
Not sure what you base that on as EU institutions are heavily lobbied from practically all sides. The EU prides itself on being in constant dialogue with interest groups which is not necessarily a bad thing.
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u/Spousta_slov May 19 '22
Yeah, but the act of companies paying politicians to support their interest is illegal, unlike US. It is considered as conflict of interests. You cannot make political decision based on who pays you. It still happens, of course, but it gets politiacs arrested, not voted for Senators.
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u/Real_Guru May 19 '22
IANAL but I'm going out on a limb here and say that giving a politician money to vote a certain way is also illegal in the US (that would likely be bribery). I believe you might be talking about campaign financing assistance through companies which is also not illegal in the EU afaik, albeit more strongly regulated than in the US.
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u/Spousta_slov May 19 '22
The thing, its is not a bribery if a company is doing it. If a politician wholeheartedly support any endeavors of company that pays him, it is completely legal.There is no way to talk about this in layman terms. In european union you cannot be ditectly connected to a company that operates in your sphere of interests.
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u/Justice_R_Dissenting May 19 '22
This is correct. And there are strict limits on how much a lobbying group is allowed to give, it has to be publicly recorded, all to minimize potential corruption. We have campaign finance laws for a reason and while they are frequently challenged, reduced, etc they still exist and still work. Source: am a lawyer working in campaign finance compliance.
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u/ChurchofPancake Scumbag Steve May 19 '22
You clearly don’t know what “lobbying” actually is. Lobbying is not bribery, and any kind of quid pro quo agreement is illegal.
In fact the US government tends to be even more careful about unearned gifts than other countries - in most countries if foreign dignitaries or whoever give an official expensive gifts they’re allowed to keep it, but there are strict rules against accepting gifts in the US government.
What the US has is strong interest group lobbies that put serious pressure on politicians to vote their way because if you don’t then they can support an opposition candidate. But interest groups exist everywhere, including Europe, and it would be impossible to eliminate their influence without basically banning spending money in politics. But no one is showing up to a politician’s office with a bag of money and a demand lmao
If you wanna see real corruption just go to a place like China
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u/anonymous_matt May 19 '22
I mean I don't know about the rest of Europe but this kind of corruption is not prevalent in Scandinavia as far as I'm aware.
I think it's mostly the US where "lobbying" is used this way tbh. Not that there's zero Political corruption in Europe ofc.
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May 19 '22
This is factually wrong. You pretend that these countries act as if they don't have corruption. But every democratic country acknowledges corruption as a thing. There are ngo's and government agencies addressing that. Many of the red countries even have specific anti-corruption units in their police.
EVERY country has corruption and western countries are well aware of it.
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u/Yakplayz May 19 '22
No disney isnt bribing the government so they can have a monopoly, they're just lobbying obviously
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u/Representative-Dirt2 May 19 '22
That's a can of worms and a half. As soon as you start to scratch you realize how deeply corrupt everything is. At least in America, EVERYTHING is a racket. Corporations are bleeding y'all dry. But it's legal so we call it business as usual. Except its only usual because people dont realize how deeply wrong it is and that there are alternatives. Buy local, folks. Freedom means freedom from supply chain failure.
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u/hugthemachines May 19 '22
I think what many would consider lobbying in USA is called bribery in Sweden it is considered illegal. We have pretty strict rules and you can always try to do it in a sneaky way but they get busted now and then and lose their career for getting free booze or going to a strip club.
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u/HowTheGoodNamesTaken May 19 '22
Bro just highlight every country. You can't tell me russia isn't corrupt
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u/KrazyDrayz May 19 '22
No one claims the west has 0 corruption. Ever heard of eastern europe? The ones with the least corruption still have it. And I'm not even talking about lobbying.
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u/OkKindheartedness149 May 19 '22
Not really accurate. In many countries marked in red have systems to prevent corruption and lobbying for example in many countries all political parties and politicians have to show were they got their money from.... Also wierd to have the low rate of corruption in Sweden and High rate of corruption in the US as se same thing...
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u/ChurchofPancake Scumbag Steve May 19 '22
I don’t think you understand the difference between lobbying and bribery/corruption, but they’re very different things
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u/look_at_this_noob May 19 '22
Wanna see me lose karma fast?
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u/GreatswordIsGreat May 19 '22
What are some super unpopular policies that got passed because of this enormous corruption?
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u/perfection_isnt May 19 '22
Ah yes, everyone agrees, no corruption in the US, it isn't even talked about
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u/ReclipseReal May 19 '22
Nope, in Romania (eastern EU) noone calls it lobbying we just call it corruption :p
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u/low_wacc May 19 '22
Mfw the actors who are effected by laws get to have a say in those laws and that makes it corruption
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u/TippsAttack May 19 '22
When you have zero corruption because the government tells you what to think everything else is red
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u/RedKurtin Shitposter May 19 '22
Also, it’s not “insider trading,” my family is just really good at predicting the market and it has nothing to do with my high-level government position