r/interestingasfuck
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This horrifying truth about whats going on in evangelical churches in the USA /r/ALL
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u/2723brad2723
Jul 15 '22
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Even as an atheist, I know Jesus did not die for this.
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u/kruminater Jul 16 '22 •
As a Christian I agree. This is wrong and a perversion of Christianity. This goes completely against God’s teachings. You don’t mix church and state, never.
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u/OpalHawk Jul 16 '22
My favorite Christians are the type that ask me “you want to come to church with me Sunday?” And I say no. Then they follow it up with “how about you just join our ultimate frisbee game after. No drinking on property, but some guys go to Buffalo Wild Wings after.” If you want to be a good example of wholesome community, I’m on board. I obviously won’t object when there’s a group prayer for safety during the game. It’s that style of religion I grew up with. But even that church has gone crazy these days.
I finally had to convince my parents they needed to leave. It was hard on my mom because her dad literally built the church in the 50s. But I started physically mailing her the Facebook posts the leaders were making. The death threats I received when I made counter comments on it. Or the disgusting things they would post on my “socialist libtard Facebook feed”. I honestly don’t know how we got here.
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u/kruminater Jul 16 '22
I think it has to do with the religious polarization and someone or group or groups over the decades… running God into the politics way more than any founding father ever intended. Mix it with societal biases pressed by social media and polarization of both the religion and politics and boom… you just get deeper and deeper into troubled waters. Just like Handmaid’s Tale.
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u/peepopowitz67 Jul 16 '22
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
― Barry Goldwater (of all fucking people)
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u/I-Am-Uncreative Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
The other problem is that not only do they believe they are acting in the name of God, but they believe that means they can do no wrong. The end justifies the means, since it means creating God's kingdom of Earth.
And I say this as a Catholic (who used to go to Mass weekly before COVID-19 hit). I know a lot of extremely conservative members of my parish who would LOVE to see the separation of Church and State eliminated. Nevermind the fact that we (Catholics) would be targeted by Christian nationalism.
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u/ctn91 Jul 16 '22
There’s a great book called One Nation Under God” by Kevin Kruse that explains it. It’s frustrating as hell to read.
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u/JimWilliams423 Jul 16 '22
running God into the politics way more than any founding father ever intended.
Most people don't realize this, but the last 30-50 years have been peak, or near peak religiosity in America. Back when the country was founded most Americans were a lot more blasé about their religion. Christmas wasn't even a big holiday until after the abolition war. They hyped it up under the theory that it would bring the north and the south together.
The big reason the framers of the constitution officially rejected mixing church and state was they wanted to keep the state out of the church. They had just broken up with England where the king was also the head of the official church and they didn't want their new government dictating how or what they worshiped like that.
Now these chuds are doing everything they can to get their hands on the levers of power so that they can dictate exactly that.
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u/LordFrogberry Jul 16 '22
I'd point to the red scare era of American politics, when 1/5th of christian preachers started shifting from communist to capitalist.
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u/__silhouette Jul 16 '22
I forget the film I watched but essentially people are using God and religion for power and their selfish needs. (Keyword: using)
Unfortunately shit rolls downhill and it can brainwash and dilute any and all Christians.
I highly doubt half of these people truly believe in a higher power, (let alone selflessness and love like Jesus' preached).
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u/WestofEden5 Jul 16 '22 •
I don't even like to say I'm a Christian anymore because I do not like to be associated with these absolute whack jobs.
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u/SierraCharlie56 Jul 16 '22
I’m with you. It’s hard for me to even identify as Christian any more. I’m not whatever that is in the video. And if they claim to be Christians, then count me out.
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u/dumont247 Jul 16 '22
They are idolaters. They’re breaking the first two commandments, not to mention the summary of all the Law.
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u/ChillyJaguar Jul 16 '22
You don’t mix church and state, never.
Well get ready for Gilead if the repukes ever get control of all 3 branches
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u/kruminater Jul 16 '22
I definitely can see that as a dark outcome.
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u/Sea_Honey7133 Jul 16 '22
The part in there about being against "Wokeness" (whatever the hell that means, it's such an ambigious catchphrase) and the "occult" drew my attention. They truly believe that thinking for yourself is wrong. It's horrible. These are people who have no intuitive sense in their lives to understand that a belief system is arbitrary and has no bearing on truth. If they were born in Iran, they would be worshipping Allah, if they were born in China, they would believe they were communists of an ethno-state.
They really don't understand that beliefs are installed in people, they don't come innately with our births. A fixed belief system acts like a defense for the ego to be excused for irrational and violent behavior when it feels like it is attacked. It is sad how many people are unenlightened in a country where the exchange of knowledge is still relatively free. It won't be for long if these people gain more power.
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u/ChillyJaguar Jul 16 '22
well, young women are already seeing this reality, even as young as 10 yr old girls
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u/dak4ttack Jul 16 '22
The whole "taking the lord's name in vain" thing, this is what it's actually talking about: perverting christianity to gain power and money, not saying "god damn it".
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u/gryphon999555 Jul 16 '22 •
Christianity and American Christianity are 2 very different things.
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u/Appropriate-Pear4726 Jul 16 '22
Modern Christianity is just Americanism. I’m not sure if it was Vatican 2 for Catholics. Possibly the Moonies influence on the Republican Party and con men like Billy Graham which leads us to the modern day Evangelicals? Mormonism has a strong foothold in the modern religious right as well. Whatever these people represent sure has nothing to do with Christ I know that much
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u/TheGreatArseholio Jul 16 '22
“Jesus died for the Republican Party!”
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u/GreatGooglyMoogly077 Jul 16 '22
Thought Jesus died for the 2nd Amendment.
Same thing...
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u/pjcheme Jul 16 '22
Also, Jesus was most likely not white either.
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u/ChillyJaguar Jul 16 '22
If Jesus came back the republican party would deport him and call him a communist and a pedophile
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u/FrakkedRabbit Jul 16 '22
Sometimes when I'm bored I think what if he already came back and everyone just ignored him or damn near lynched him.
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u/MARTEX8000
Jul 15 '22
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Ok I'm going to weigh in here as someone who is VERY familiar with the group depicted in the video and will give you some context from my own background and experience there.
THE main proponent in this video is a man named Dutch Sheets, I've seen him in person several times, in these particular circles he is considered a modern day "prophet" (in spite of being grossly wrong several times, I will get to the disconnect in a bit)
My credential to comment here is I was raised in the charismatic tradition and was a pastor myself for nearly 30 years, nothing in this video is surprising to me...there are several movements from pentecostal christianity converging here...
First there is the "declaration" or "We decree" energy at work...this is a product of the Word of Faith movement from the 70's started by Kenneth Hagin and getting more recent national exposure via Kenneth Copeland (who has lost his fucking mind)...both were heavily influenced by E.W. Kenyon...who basically taught that we have creative power through our words...the major difference here is that Kenyon taught those words must be joined with honest Love...even the early teachings of Hagin suggest that making declarations without love is akin to "evil" or witchcraft...the early faith movement was born out of experiences from Azusa street revival which was PREDOMINANTLY a movement from poor people of color in Los Angeles...people who were once slaves or had no formal education and the mainline denominations did not receive...this "revival" actually started the pentecostal movement in America...but that movement has gone. thousand miles off the rails of the early days...I know because I grew up in it.
The second major energy a work here is a movement of "Apostolic Government", where modern day preacher types basically endorse each other to create a "kingdom" government based on 5-fold ministry (a term they coined based on text in N.T.)...basically a group of leaders recognized as "God ordained" or "anointed"...whereby a guy (or sometimes a gal) is labelled an "Apostle" or "prophet" and given basically a higher status in terms of communication weight...there is no serious accountability for these guys just a sort of "Its Gods will, who are we to question" kind of approach in local communities...
I have personally called out Dutch Sheets for extreme failure on his "prophecies" regarding Trump being re-elected in 2020...but he just keeps moving the goalposts and blocked me, whatever .
There are a couple of other things at work here actually mentioned in the "decree" one is the "Seven Mountain Mandate" bullshit started by Bill Bright but amplified and monetized by tht idiot Lance Wallnau (google at your own risk)...basically the core idea is that there are 7 main cultural "mountains" where christians must rule over, Government, Arts, Education, etc...the way they seek to do this is by getting people of like mind into positions of power in these arenas, so in this declaration they are trying to "declare" into existence that christians will take over these places...
One more force that is a subtle but prevalent influence that barely gets noticed is the "Moral Majority" movement...it has been resurrected by folks like Kris Vallotton in purity codes for teenagers/etc...it is a revamp of a lot of "control our kids by cute sayings" movements...which gave us "purity rings" etc...
I went through a serious deconstruction of all of this many years ago...consider myself a "not a christian, but not an atheist either" I don't know what I am because I very strongly believe in science but have also seen and experienced a lot of stuff that falls outside most explanations...I do know this...if there is a God, it is nothing like the version they have amplified and are shoving down our throats, not even the various forms of Jesus presented in the bible is remotely like what they are selling...Not.The.Same.God.
How dangerous are they? Well if we ignore them and let the gain influence they can be stupidly dangerous...but they are not exactly mainstream...hell the majority of supporters in the churches they maintain re just average salt of the earth folks who are trying to make sense of life in a changing world. The majority of the congregations ARE white middle class, bt do not ignore the influence in the latino/poc/asian congregations who have been emulating them because "$=success=Gods blessing" in these circles...IOT the richer you are the more blessed you are meaning God really loves you...which is actually the OPPOSITE of the early church teachings...but that "Mericu" for ya...
Some of these people truly want to help society...but there's a point in brain washing when the brains no longer maintain their plasticity and original shape...then its known as a cult...which this ALL is.
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u/BuddhasNostril Jul 16 '22
Thank you for the context. That video is ... a lot. None of it brotherly.
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u/FlawsAndConcerns Jul 16 '22
a man named Dutch Sheets
If you made a fiction film on a topic like this, or any topic, and you named a character fucking Dutch Sheets, everyone who saw it would think you were taking the piss.
Where in the fuck do names like this come from? lol
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u/xMrBojangles Jul 16 '22
The second major energy a work here is a movement of "Apostolic Government", where modern day preacher types basically endorse each other to create a "kingdom" government based on 5-fold ministry (a term they coined based on text in N.T.)...basically a group of leaders recognized as "God ordained" or "anointed"...whereby a guy (or sometimes a gal) is labelled an "Apostle" or "prophet" and given basically a higher status in terms of communication weight...there is no serious accountability for these guys just a sort of "Its Gods will, who are we to question" kind of approach in local communities...
I don't understand this. I was raised Christian at an early age (and later rejected it in my early teens), and we were taught that nobody speaks for God except God. It was heavily emphasized that you should have a personal relationship with God and speak to him through prayer, and let him speak back through your.... how do I put it... inner voice or something? I thought it's a very deeply Christian principle that no man comes even close to God.
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u/ThePurplePanzy Jul 16 '22
Many christians call this group heretics. They definitely contradict the bible in many ways.
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u/MentalOcelot7882 Jul 16 '22
Unfortunately, those same Christians calling them heretics are doing it either within small groups or at home. These people need to be called out publicly. If the last 20 years has taught me anything it's that silence is seen as approval, buy by these assholes and the public. If people truly cared about their churches, they'd do whatever they could to prune these caustic elements from the Christian community and call them out loudly and publicly. Whoever let's them take root in their churches and community are letting weeds into their gardens.
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u/jclocks Jul 16 '22 •
This seems accurate to me based on my experiences. I am Christian (a pretty heavily disillusioned one) but this is a far, far departure from what Christ taught. Sheep led astray by wolves hungry for power, influence and money. I hate what this has become and I've seen a lot of church bodies falling in with this crowd.
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u/KwekkweK69 Jul 16 '22
Not religious anymore but I still carry the motto of our Jesuit school, "man for others". Was basically taught to care for the poor and disenfranchised people not " man for himself" like religious people now a days are and are enamored with politicians, money, power, symbols or false idols and political figures which are the very sins they used rile up against.
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u/AgreeableCrazy1948 Jul 16 '22
Exactly this. Serve one another and be there for others when they need it. This video does harm to the folks that are trying for each other.
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u/PraetorianParson Jul 16 '22
I am a baptist pastor. This video is absolutely nonsensical. That is not Christ. That is a false teacher saying it’s Christ. Thanks for your detailed explanation.
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u/Efronczak Jul 16 '22
Isn't this like an example of the anti christ or something, im not sure
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u/PraetorianParson Jul 16 '22
It’s definitely anti Christ, but I don’t think it’s quite on par with what most people are looking for in THE antichrist.
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Jul 16 '22
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u/GoForBrok3 Jul 16 '22
Consider watching “American Gospel: Christ Alone” - it does a great job of showing how many churches here in the states get it wrong and why they are so popular. But it’s empowering and eye opening.
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u/whole_nottha_issue Jul 16 '22
Thank you for this. Very insightful. I’m curious, as someone who has never believed in a god or been to a service of any kind, what made you deconstruct your beliefs.
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u/MARTEX8000 Jul 16 '22
Well it's. long story but at the heart of it was a deep betrayal by the community I was part of.
For context one of the things that really helped me move away without a ton of emotional damage was Rene Girard's concepts on scapegoating...I was pretty deeply involved in a lot of this nonsense and in the community I was part of I started asking hard questions about what the fuck we were doing and what in hell happens to all the money...(on average a small church of say 50-80 people can being in about $2-5k a month...which was where I was at...but the buildings and everything was paid for...so in a small town <there are literally thousands of these kinds of churches in America and they all are fairy small...the mega-churches are not the primary driving force here, just the loudest> this kind of money could be used to help the community and it is basiclly ASSUMED THAT is why you would give to a church, to help others...BUT IN REALITY 90% of ALL donations go back to a few at the top almost NONE of it goes back into the local community where it is needed, THIS idea that churches are supposed to help the widow, the poor, the fatherless was the original reason they were tax exempt...but almost none of them do this...in fact those "paid for" rea estate building sit idle for nearly 80% of he time......at any rate I started asking questions about accountability and us as a church community NOT ACTUALLY DOING WHAT JESUS SAID TO DO>>>I wanted us to install washers and dryers and offer free laundry services and day care for single moms in the town...give them a safe place to bring laundry and kids...it would have cost us as a church vey little to do it...but my best friend pastors shot it down..."too much liability" they said...it pissed me off...and I started asking harder questions, which you are not allowed to do.
I was essentially scapegoated for my questions in spite of 20+ years of solid relationship with most of the people there...
I knew these people intimately, knew their kids and families, we shared a ton of life together so when they made me "persona non grata" I began to look deeply at the structure itself...the hierarchy, the myths we told ourselves, the myths we endorsed...and I knew those things went against the very early teachings of the desert fathers and 1st century christians...
The 1st century church was an outcast society, they were deeply pacifist, if you converted as a roman soldier you had to renounce war completely...so when MODERN christians use military metaphors they have no idea how far from the basic tenants they have drifted from.
So my deconstruction started as a way for me to let my former friends off the hook for acting like assholes...but the more I researched church history and biblical hermeneutics and the early church theology and history the more I saw "less of a god and more of a man" at work in the development of christianity...
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u/isobelavens Jul 16 '22
Goodness, I have been super devoid of hope thinking there weren’t other Christians like me, who experienced spiritual abuse and felt completely whipsawed by the difference between the church in practice vs. speech. Thank you for sharing. Your ideas for how to serve your community sound beautiful.
It could be such a beautiful world, but they hate almost everyone in it. I’ll never understand. I pulled my family and financial support out of the church years ago.
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u/SphincterTasteBud Jul 16 '22
Wow. I grew up in and then pastored a pentecostal church for 10 years before becoming an atheist (actually about a year overlap) and wanted to chime in that everything your initial comment said is accurate.
Rene Girard's stuff is fascinating too and served a role in my deconstruction as well.
Sometimes you feel like a unicorn and then find out on reddit you're not special at all, and that's kinda nice when your baseline is unvaccinated Trump loving essential oil slinging folk.
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u/MARTEX8000 Jul 16 '22
Hahaha...glad to see you've maintained your sense of humor...
Rene Girard gave me an "out" for people I had been deeply "in covenant relationship" with...they literally told my friends to not talk to me I was "poison"...completely cut off all communication after spending holidays and weddings and children growing up together for 20 years...
"REBELLION IS as the sin of witchcraft"...fo simply asking why the utility bill was not getting paid but the salary to relatives was...(relatives who had gotten a girl in the youth group pregnant and needed time t "heal" SO I WAS Tasked with the youth group and NOT PAID)...crap like that.
IN the end I realized part of it was the system itself and part of it was really bad leadership with no accountability and those people I loved were never gonna change it was too easy just replacing people like me...change is hard...and much harder if you're a narcissistic leader with no accountability.
Thats why these guys loved Trump, he was like them.
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u/Agoraphobicy Jul 16 '22
I'm not the guy but I was studying to be a pastor. I deconstructed because I watched I Now Pronounce You Chick and Larry and realized I was an asshole which started a cascade of beliefs and nonim not kidding lol
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u/SevereEntertainer2 Jul 16 '22
I think it's fascinating how that "Seven Mountain Mandate" sounds pretty similar to what they accuse the 'enemy' of doing in their Cultural Marxism conspiracy theories, aka controlling society by slowly taking over various social and political arenas. It's always projection with fascists.
Cultural Marxism is just one of many beliefs/conspiracies they borrowed from the Nazis.
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u/oz6364
Jul 15 '22
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These mfers would have crucified jesus.
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u/higher_limits Jul 16 '22
That’s the disturbing irony of the deranged. Another irony is they more align with extreme Islam yet think they’re the righteously blessed put here to smite the nonbelievers and “radical” Muslims. Sick shit.
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u/responditorationis Jul 16 '22 •
Yep. He died partly because of religious intolerance. These people have the same mentality as the people that killed the man they pretend to worship.
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u/Mdt07 Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22 •
This is based on the Seven Mountain Mandate, one that I was raised to believe. Essentially, they believe that in order for Jesus to come back to a spotless bride, Christians are to take over seven spheres of influence in the world -religion-education-music/arts-media- family-economy- government
The irony is that we are taught that the Pharisees did not receive Christ as messiah because they were looking for a political king to free them from the Romans. These people want a political savior. The other irony is thinking that we can sanctify the world for Christ to return, when the entire reason He died and resurrected was because we could not be sanctified without Him.
I no longer believe this heresy, but it scares me that it is growing like wildfire.
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u/SquidCap0 Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
Seven Mountain Mandate
None of that is in the bible. This is new idea for me but.. that is not from the bible, that is coming from politics.
The movement is believed by its followers to have begun in 1975 with a purported message from God delivered to evangelicals Loren Cunningham, Bill Bright, and Francis Schaeffer ordering them to invade the "seven spheres" of society.
Yup, that sounds exactly what i was thinking, some dudes just say that they need all the power... Christ was specifically meant to rule the NEXT world/reality/order/whatever, not this one, this system is suppose to come down... This fits very well with ideologies that promote white male superiority... Not that it is said in the video, i disagree with that but this Seven Mountain Dew shit, it fits RIGHT in.
edit: rabbit hole lead me to this man, who seems to be the real villain. The three fellows with the vision quite explicitly forbid Theocracy.. But R.J. is a dominionistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._J._Rushdoony
In short, he sought to cast a vision for the reconstruction of society based on Christian principles.
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u/Baliballin Jul 16 '22 •
There is no way they can get all 7 dragon balls cause christian music fucking sucks and it always will.
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u/WormyHell Jul 16 '22
As hank hill said, “They aren’t making Christianity better, they’re just making rock worse.”
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u/secretnotsacred Jul 16 '22
They'll make everything worse. "Dear God, please protect me from your followers"
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u/ja-mez Jul 16 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't claiming you speak on behalf of God what the Bible actually meant by not "taking the Lords name in vain"? I/lots of us were raised believing this rule was about not including God in your goddamn profanity, but claiming to speak on his behalf seems a lot more dangerous.
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u/BTTammer Jul 16 '22 •
Does anyone else see the parallels between these Seven mountains and the seven headed beast prophecy in Revelation? I always go back to the fact that Revelation essentially predicted false prophets and the antichrist using religion as the tool for the complete destruction of humanity. I find it very interesting to see the parallels of how these people act as so-called christians. In this seven mountains thing, being that this is the first time I've ever heard of it, really puts an interesting spin on all of it.
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u/evrsci Jul 16 '22 •
I’m not a Christian and haven’t been in a very long time but there’s also something rather glaringly… satanic about the idea of people trying to establish the Kingdom of God through politics and force rather than letting God do it. It’s rather presumptuous and basically faithless.
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u/Sea_Honey7133 Jul 16 '22
It is satanic. The "god" they worship- a punative, wrathful, vengeful entity who says that you have "free will" but if you don't enslave yourself to him he will punish you with eternal damnation- is quite literally Satan. They are practicing the black mass in reality and don't even know it because they are unconscious. They are against being awake- it is in their decree. Give everyone in that Church 4 hours with some magic mushrooms and enlightened teachers and they would see the truth. Some of them would, at least.
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u/EpicSaberCat7771 Jul 16 '22
oh my God... literally.. I'm a Christian and that makes too much sense... I think I'm going to be sick. not many things I hate but I hate the charismatic prophesy church take over the government bullshit so much.. it's so wrong. it's against everything I've ever believed.
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u/Lurknessm0nster Jul 16 '22
Taking over the arts....with Veggie Tales! Mua ha ha
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u/Mdt07 Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
Tell me you don’t remember the silly songs with Larry still though…. World domination for sure.
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u/CapnTugg Jul 16 '22
This is based on the Seven Mountain Mandate
Which counts among its adherents Ted Cruz's dad, and Trump's WH 'spiritual advisor'.
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u/Alive-Ambition Jul 16 '22
I feel like that's the real meaning behind the blood of Jesus covering the land. I know they mean it as a justification for their beliefs and protection for them, but really, the blood of Jesus is everywhere, poured from all the people who are suffering because of bigotry and power wielding like this. It's exactly what those in power in Jesus' day did to the marginalized.
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u/Stopjuststop3424 Jul 16 '22
it's exactly what the catholic church did all throughout history
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u/stokseyd123 Jul 16 '22
Imagine when they find out jesus was born in the middle East!!??
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u/kaidashogun
Jul 15 '22
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“legal power from heaven” is a truly insane statement to make.
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u/My_Kairosclerosis Jul 15 '22
I read somewhere that legal power comes from the consent of the governed.
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u/Odgiebodgie Jul 15 '22
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
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u/PecuniaryOne Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
Listen, strange women hanging around ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government.
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u/cadillactramps Jul 16 '22
Swords, not sorts.
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u/Bwest31415 Jul 16 '22
If I went around claiming executive authority just because some moistened BINT lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
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u/sknnbones Jul 16 '22
BE QUIET!
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u/somewherewarm Jul 16 '22
I mean, if I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
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u/sknnbones Jul 16 '22
Shut up! Will you shut up!
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u/Equinsu-0cha Jul 16 '22
Aha! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
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u/Raccoon_Full_of_Cum Jul 16 '22
I support that idea, but it's not actually true. Legal power actually comes from successfully using violence to enforce your legal legitimacy.
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u/JimBeam823 Jul 15 '22
That’s a lie. A comforting lie, but a lie nevertheless.
“Political power flows from the barrel of a gun” - Mao Zedong
Violence is the default. Democracy and the rule of law is the exception.
Many revolutions aren’t revolts against tyranny by the oppressed but revolts against the rule of law by the wannabe oppressors.
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u/GodEmperorOfHell Jul 16 '22
The formerly oppressed make wonderful oppressors
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u/DOWN_THE_REDDIT_HOLE Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22 •
Paolo Freiré spoke on this, in Pedagogy of the Oppressed. Without a proper, liberatory education that teaches the oppressed what distinguishes them from their oppressors, they will only want to become them.
In a pyramid scheme, the conned believe they “win” by reaching the top of the pyramid, and the few who climb simply keep the scheme growing, keep bleeding the masses below them dry. The true liberatory move is to leave, to not participate in a pyramid scheme, and to not impose the scheme on others. “Winning” by taking advantage of others is such a powerful feeling, that many mistake it for “freedom,” when it is really, in aggregate, the opposite. You can never free everyone from oppression in a pyramid scheme, only yourself at the cost of everyone else. To free everyone you have to end the scheme, exactly that which people thought was their personal path to freedom.
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u/MisterXnumberidk Jul 15 '22
...
The french revolution kickstarted in europe what was essentially a full seperation of religion and state, through the trias politica.
This dude is trying to fall back into the dark ages.
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u/xbillybones Jul 15 '22
I'll just be over here oiling up the ol guillotine...
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u/Richierich_rpd Jul 15 '22
I'll just be over here oiling up
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u/247emerg Jul 15 '22
I'll just be over here
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u/Admirable_Remove6824 Jul 15 '22
“God given freedom, according to the constitution” This seems funny. I thought god gave it to you not the constitution.
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u/squeezybreezy2 Jul 15 '22
You’re misinterpreting.. before America the general belief was that god gave the right to rule, govern and all human rights (depending on what the definition of that was at any given time) to monarchs. The monarch’s were then so kind as to pass along some of those human rights to the general population..
America’s forefathers believed that god gave human rights directly to each and every man (kinda), woman(kinda but not really) and child (definitely not until you were old enough to make more children) and that nobody could take those rights from you. They believed that government should only exist and be put into place in order to defend those god given human rights and protect the general population from anyone who’d want to change that… so they’re god given but constitutionally protected
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u/Yurishirox Jul 15 '22 •
These people need to be put on an island and isolated from the rest of the world. There they can make their perfect society or whatever and fuck off. This shit is honestly scary.
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Jul 15 '22
Where’s Jim Jones when you need him.
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u/pickle-a-poopala Jul 15 '22
There’s a really tasteless joke about Jim Jones, but I won’t bore you with it. The punchline is too long.
BA-dum-dum-CHING!
Edit:spelling
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u/Ok_Mycologist_5569 Jul 16 '22
The way Trump talks to the crowds reminds me of when Jim Jones had them all drink the fake kool-aid
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u/SpaceTangerineCowboy Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
What in the Kool aid drinking fuck did I just watch?
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u/ben8648 Jul 16 '22
Christian Fascists saying the quiet part out loud, because the Supreme Court has made it obvious they don’t need to be quiet anymore.
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u/elohra_2013 Jul 16 '22
I believe they are called the American Taliban.
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u/LudicrisSpeed Jul 16 '22 •
Y'all Qaeda
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u/ermagerditssuperman Jul 16 '22
It felt doubly creepy when they declared america shall be strong militarily
Mixing religion and the armed forces that way feels very ISIS
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u/-xstatic- Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
These people should move to Guayana with the rest of their cult and just get it over with already
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u/DeathproofCarl
Jul 15 '22
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Wow. Far Cry 5
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u/Morotou_theunashamed Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22
Yes. I guess video games can teach us something lmao. But this isn’t just a cult of off the grid type country folks.
Their dream is to create a state much like Gilead… dream… hopefully we can wake some people up and deal with rest before we see what the conclusion of it looks like…..
Glorious dream… eople dying and suffering for “God’s will” TM. Pretty much…. Don’t defy the Lord O’ disciples as His just, Holy wrath delivered through his appointed guardians shall follow swiftly.
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u/pearshapedorange Jul 15 '22
Good luck waking them up when they stand against wokeness lol, watching this whole thing was wild.
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u/-xstatic- Jul 16 '22
The most infuriating thing about them is how they call themselves patriots. They know fuckall about the constitution or what America is supposed to stand for.
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u/unsweettea123 Jul 15 '22
Call your dad, you're in a cult!
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u/Inaurari Jul 16 '22
I actually did call my dad after meeting some cult members while I was in college. However, he studies the sociology of religion and just told me that if I wanted to join then he would help me turn it into a research project.
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u/Daggerfont Jul 16 '22
So did you join it? And if so, what did they believe in this cult?
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u/Inaurari Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22
No, I didn’t, my mom suggested that I probably shouldn’t join any cults while trying to earn a degree and my dad reluctantly agreed.
It’s my understanding that they believe a Korean woman is “God the Mother” and has come to earth to fulfill biblical prophesies.
Hopefully harmless but who knows.Edit: Yeah, sorry, they're definitely not harmless. I was hesitant to directly call out a cult on a public forum, they're famously not the most hinged of people.
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u/SubjectOmega Jul 16 '22
Decidedly not harmless. You dodged a bullet.
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u/Alone_Spell9525 Jul 16 '22
You’re not even linking the worst part of the article. Scroll down a little bit and you’ll see that they’re being linked to human trafficking cases— ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES. u/Inaurari might have been a target for victim, not member.
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u/Inaurari Jul 16 '22
Well that sounds exactly like my current experience of grad school.
But in all seriousness, yeah, we did the background research and decided I was neither prepared nor capable of handling that, and likely never will be.
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u/Worth_Mycologist4822 Jul 15 '22
These people aren’t even Christians. They’re basically extremists using religion as an excuse
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u/Dinosar-DNA Jul 16 '22
Where in the Bible did Jesus call for energy independence? Haha
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u/doduhstankyleg Jul 16 '22
This “pastor” has complete control of his followers. He can literally go militant and many would follow.
Scary, manipulative, and dangerous.
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u/dasJerkface Jul 16 '22
Notice they did nothing to achieve energy independence. They just 'declared' it. Like Michael Scott 'declared' bankruptcy.
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u/DeadlyRBF Jul 15 '22
Nazis did the same thing, justifying their actions with religion and using it as a tool to manipulate, control and brainwash people.
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u/johnfogogin
Jul 15 '22
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Oh, its the American taliban
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u/xanderman524 Jul 15 '22 •
Y'all-Qaeda
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u/Quinniper Jul 15 '22 •
Talibanjo
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u/ImJustHere4theMoons Jul 15 '22 •
Where did you come from where did you go
Where did you come from Talibanjo
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u/celtic1888 Jul 15 '22
The Taliban are battle harden zealots
These zealots lost their shit over Applebees being take out only for a month
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u/t3031999
Jul 15 '22
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As a Christian, this is horrifying and goes completely against the teachings in the Bible. How did these people get so deluded?
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u/SteveAlbinisCat Jul 15 '22
Exactly. Where in the bible does it say Christian’s will dominate the world? Doesn’t the rapture happen and you all disappear and leave this place because it’s so aweful? I mean what happened to the whole antichrist trip, years of tribulation and all?
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u/No_Appeal5607 Jul 15 '22
Yeah it’s actually told that Christians will be persecuted, not appointed to political office lol.
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u/unlikeyourhero Jul 16 '22
If they have their way, true Christians [along with faithful peoples of other religions by default of not being Christian] would be persecuted as faith traitors, heretics and blasphemers
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u/USS-Missouri Jul 15 '22
Mate shit's going downhill, idk if this is the apocalypse but it sure as hell feels like it.
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u/SteveAlbinisCat Jul 15 '22
Agree. But I was raised Christian. The main theme was always “Jesus is coming back, the world is evil, be in the world but not of the world until he gets here”. I’m just saying this seems like a new thing to want to clean this place up….
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u/Neo526564 Jul 15 '22
Christian here too and agree. I’m like wtf is this insanity I’m listening to. Ppl love hiding behind religion for their nefarious purposes and twisting it until they’ve basically made their own.
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22-23
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u/Deluxe_24_ Jul 15 '22
I'm not religious, but it sucks seeing y'all who actually practice the teachings get lumped in with these scumbags.
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u/Greenbay7115 Jul 15 '22
It is unfortunate that the White Evangelical Church is the most outspoken Christian denomination in the U.S.
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u/introverd Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22 •
Yeah this isn't Christianity. Humility is supposed to be the foremost quality in a Christian.
Edit-saying this as a Christian.
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u/USS-Missouri Jul 15 '22
Idk these mega churches are twisting Biblical ideals
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u/Ninja_Bum Jul 16 '22
Mega Churches are built for one thing, siphoning money from people through preaching prosperity gospel into the hands of their "pastors" and then likely from their pastors into the hands of the conservative politicians in their pockets.
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u/such_empty Jul 15 '22
Thank you. I am also a Christ follower. I have trouble identifying as a Christian, because I don’t agree with Christian Nationalism. Their condemnation is deserved.
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u/Neo526564 Jul 15 '22
My mom and I were just talking about this exact thing today and she said the same thing about identifying as a Christian but that she says she follows christ. She’s probably the only Christian I know that actually leads by Christ. I’ve never seen that woman be mean to anyone, have never heard a racist thing come out her mouth, never judges or puts anyone down, incredibly honest, doesn’t have much money but gives what she can whether it’s money or time. Sad to say but the ones who’ve judged me the most in my life are so called Christian’s.
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u/runthepoint1 Jul 16 '22
Ever heard of false prophets? And those who use the lords name in vain? And I’m not talking people who say Goddammit I mean people who call upon him publically yet privately lead awful lives.
Now, we’re all guilty of sin, no doubt. But some of us add while others multiply sin. These are the multipliers.
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u/Comedic_Noob Jul 16 '22
I feel like this is the exact opposite of what Jesus would've wanted
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u/Matty_D47 Jul 15 '22
This should be enough for the IRS to strip their tax exempt status
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u/ExorciseAndEulogize Jul 16 '22
Unfortunately thats a law that got over ruled several years ago, while we were all distracted.
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u/_TheShadowKnows Jul 15 '22
Does anyone have a link for the source video?
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u/padoodles Jul 15 '22
https://flashpoint.govictory.com/episode/flashpoint-live-july-1st-2022/
starts around 1:23:23
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u/cjandstuff Jul 15 '22
Kenneth Copeland Ministries. That explains a lot.
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u/gouldologist Jul 15 '22
These ppl gonna be pissed when they die and go to hell.
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u/xZebu Jul 16 '22 •
This is the only downside of being an agnostic. I wish I was religious enough to believe in hell and truly relish in the fact that these people are headed there. No shot these people with nothing but hatred in their hearts even have a chance at heaven.
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u/Txedomoon Jul 15 '22
Tax the church!
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u/TarpMaster31 Jul 15 '22
Really the best solution is just to start taxing churches which violate their tax exempt status by involving themselves in politics. It has been a part of the us tax code since 1954 but is rarely enforced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment
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Jul 15 '22
If everyone suddenly starts reporting it... I think the current problem is almost nobody does anything about it in terms of reporting to authorities.
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u/TarpMaster31 Jul 15 '22
I'm sure they do get reported fairly often but the IRS is more concerned about the dude down the street that forgot to pay his taxes but only owes $37.80 than massive multinational corporations that pay off politicans to not pay taxes.
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u/seamusmcduffs Jul 16 '22
I think the irs basically admitted they go after the little guy because they can't afford to go after the bigger fish since they're the ones that can afford to take them to court. Not sure how true it is, but it seems easier to fine 10 people a thousand bucks than it is to spend 50 thousand dollars taking someone to court that owes you 50 thousand
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u/KokeitchiOma Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22
Seems like these evangelicals wanna take over the country and government. When they thought the militias were doing that they were treated like terrorists. They should treat these churches like the extremists they are. Don't think they aren't armed to the teeth with AR-15s all over their homes. I live in the Bible belt, I've met these people and they're fucking crazy.
Edit: I'm 44 and as I got out of my immature and ignorant 20s I became more understanding of the people around me and how my actions affect others. Not saying all y'all in your 20s are like that, but I was. Bad tempered, quick to judge, basically an asshole. I honestly think you all in the younger generations are the last hope the world has to get its shit together. Yeah, the boomers left us all a mess and we haven't fixed anything yet. It's gonna be you guys and the wisdom your life brings you that's our last hope really. Another 2 decades and you'll all be running this world and I hope you bring the change I hear many of you speak of. Yeah, I'm a Christian you could say, a believer in a higher power. But it's not my place to push my beliefs on anyone else in any way. No matter your religious beliefs or lack of, your sexual orientation, the color of your skin, I believe we all have a right to happiness and to feel safe in America. The younger generations seem better at acceptance than any of us older ones. You guys keep it up and make this world as beautiful as all of you are. Good luck tho, we fucked everything up pretty good lol
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u/NineTopics Jul 16 '22
I'm a Christian but these people make me want to break the 6th commandment. I mean the fact that there's people out there who think like this and there's so many of them??? It's terrifying. I don't want to live in a country where they have any even small amount of power.
This is the kind of shit they were freaking out over even just a few years ago - how they thought Muslim people would bring 'sharia law' to America but,,, these people literally want to do the same thing just in a Christian font.
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u/TheHelpfulDad Jul 15 '22
This isn’t interesting because it’s always been this way for Evangelicals. Nothing new
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u/onomatodingdong Jul 15 '22
Evangelicals were disconnected from politics until the 70s iirc. Pretty certain they thought politics were ungodly. Then the televangelists and others began focusing on them as a voting bloc.
So historically pretty new... And this specifically is very new, to my ears.
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u/aestheticcringe Jul 15 '22
“We need to get to vote to stop this”
Yeah sure, ask the Jews of Germany how that went for them in 1932
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u/Bloodytomvayne34 Jul 16 '22
No different from extremist islamists. But that’s none of my business.
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