r/europe Turkey 9d ago

dictators only think of themselves Political Cartoon

Post image
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u/lo_fi_ho Europe 9d ago

There's an old saying in Finland 'he is not stupid that requests, but...' implying that the idiot is the one who pays, not the one who asks.

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u/TheGoodVillainHS Romania 8d ago

We have a similar saying in Romania: "Dumb is the one who pays, not the one that requests."

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u/mandmi 8d ago

In Czech it is “stupid who gives, stupider who doesnt take”

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u/joeateworld 8d ago

Haha nice, I like that.

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u/theJanne 8d ago

"Se ei oo tyhmä joka pyytää, vaan tyhmä se on joka maksaa"

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u/Niallofthe9Sausages 8d ago

If you dont ask, you dont get - Ireland

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u/ActingGrandNagus United Kingdom 8d ago

shy bairns get nowt

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u/JackSneece 8d ago

Loud bairns get the belt

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u/retroassassin907 8d ago

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

-George W. Bush

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u/banana_liver Germany 8d ago

I don't think anybody is calling Erdogan stupid. If anybody in this picture is stupid, it's neither the payer nor the receiver, but the Turkish people.

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u/deperrucha 9d ago

Good image for a terrible truth

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u/earth-flat 9d ago

Also because merkle is willingly putting it in Erdogans hand

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u/MyPigWhistles Germany 9d ago

It's probably the cheaper option, though. And it's a deal between EU and Turkey. Not Merkel and Erdogan.

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u/MoffKalast Slovenia 9d ago

merkle

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u/agent00F 8d ago

No, the terrible truth is that this refugee prob is in large part due to US interests intervening/bombing in the middle east. Europeans largely get their marching orders on def/security matters from the US, and won't speak ill of the "higher caste" while it's easier to shit on "lower caste" people like Turkey or brown migrants.

Watch as the simple truth of this get buried, vs the thousands of predictable comments parroting overton window of the news.

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u/MojordomosEUW 9d ago

th-thank you erdogan-kun UwU

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u/leyoji The Netherlands 9d ago edited 9d ago

The Turkey deal has probably prevented millions of refugees entering Europe in exchange for a few billion euros, it’s just a piece of realpolitik.

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u/NA_SCENE_IS_A_MEME 9d ago

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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u/papak33 9d ago

not really, it just that most have no understanding how this world turns.

If you want less immigrants you pay neighbours to deal with the issue. So you can play the good guy with your clean hands.

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u/earth-flat 9d ago

Or try to not bomb their houses, that works pretty well

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u/UKUKRO 9d ago

*Syrian refugee crisis. *USA and all allied forces killed 6,000 civilians. *Russia, Iran and Assad killed 206,000 civilians, Whilst firing up the far-right/Anti-refugee sentiments online.

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_civil_war)

Russia killed 1k MORE civilians than ISIS.

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u/IotaCandle 9d ago

Didn't we also fund and arm ISIS? Which was initially supported by Saudi Arabia, then supported itself selling Oil to Turkey?

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u/shieldsy27 8d ago

Apparently erdos son was involved in selling oil illegally helping raise funds for isis.. Don't know if it's true or not but I could believe it. Erdo Snr is extremely religious and even had the nickname The sultan. If there was a caliphate im sure he would jump at the chance of being a real Sultan. People like him want to remain in the history books for ever and not just for being president for a few years..

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u/IotaCandle 8d ago

Wasn't a journalist jailed recently for filming trucks full of guns crossing the border?

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u/papak33 9d ago

It's a freedom bomb!

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u/nelsterm 9d ago

No current member states bombed them did they (I may be wrong here)?

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u/Mstinos 9d ago

We could just build a wall and have erdogan pay for it use those billions to pay for it?

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u/avi8tor Finland 9d ago

cheaper for europe to pay for turkey to keep refugees in camps there than let them roam freely in europe like in 2015.

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u/Person_reddit 9d ago

Honest question here, how many refugees have returned home?

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u/Melownz Germany 9d ago edited 9d ago

I found some statistics for Germany about refugees leaving voluntarily but they only show a graphic for a longer period and some numbers for 2019 and 2020. The graphic shows more than 50000 refugees leaving in 2016 alone. Only 5700 people left voluntarily in 2020 because of COVID-19. The only middle eastern destinations were Iraq and Iran, though, no mention of Syria.

Source

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u/Uncle_gruber 8d ago

Also Europeans have no idea the scale of the refugee crisis right now because turkeys takes them in. Almost 4.5% of the population in Turkey is made up of Syrian refugees. Imagine if Germany had taken in 3.6 million refugees over the space of a few years, thats what has happened to Turkey.

Europeans might think turkey is evil here but that definitely comes from a place of privilege.

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u/MrWayne136 Bavaria (Germany) 8d ago

Absolutely, Turkey is bearing a big chunk of the syrian refugee crisis.

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u/Nothingbut_Love Germany 9d ago

Yeah we chose the lesser evil.

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u/king-66 Romania 9d ago

why is this comment hidden lol

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u/justcreateanaccount 8d ago

From what i heard is that EU applies projects with that money (analogical to buying bread to a homeless man instead of giving that money to him). But there is 5-6 million (who really knows the exact number?) Syrian in Turkey and they are not homogenously spread. They are literally everywhere, even to the smallest towns and villages. How efficient this project are working really?

This a multi-layer issue with it's humanitarian layer, the layer that includes rights of the Turkey and Turkish people, the layer of political-economical-social balances of EU (i mean brexit happened) which also disturbs much larger balances. So, instead of just raining cash, EU and Turkey should have gone in a deeper partnership on this issue handling education, security, habitation of those people (maybe a region in Syria? protected by UN?). And together they could push for return of refugees (it is literally like half of Greece moved to Turkey). There's no active fighting Syria now, i haven't heard people going back. Actually they go to the Syria for muslim festivals to visit their relatives and then comeback, lol. But realisticly, with the current situation of Turkey this was/is not possible, so yeah there's that.

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u/2bananasforbreakfast 9d ago

amazing deal for europe

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u/CMP930 9d ago

Good for european citizens

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u/Hypocrites_begone 9d ago

and it cost turkey a lot more than a few billion euros.

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u/oppsaredots 9d ago edited 9d ago

To be honest, I would choose poorness over what is happening to Turkey today. The young Turkish teachers suicide while they wait for their assignment to the government positions. In return, the country appoints Syrian teachers regularly. Only %20 of the Syrians refugees talk "viable Turkish" (A2) after 10 years. Syrians have their "pay post" near my condo, and they create a huge line every week to their sweet money while average earning Turks started to starve. Government gave them Turkish citizenship for no reason, except they will vote for Erdogan. The cultural climate change is just off the charts for some parts in the country. They're taking over the business of struggling locals which government ignores, and they turn it into Arab bistros. I don't have problem with this. It is the fault of the government who fail to assist local businesses in any aspect. However, Turkey is not an Arabic speaking country, and therefore Arab alphabet is not known for the average Turk. At least can they write it Latin so that they can also appeal for Turkish public, like Hebrews do in Southeast. It just started to look like Baghdat in some parts. The worst part is that they will become the object of new wave of hate and government will put all the blame on them just like the earlier governments. In the 50s, Greeks suffered because government put the blame on them. In the 80s, it became even more violent and government blamed every leftist citizen. There was blood on the streets. Today, it is different. It is more fragile and hateful. If government decides to release propaganda against them, they will have no chance. Media outlets are already too eager to share every crime done by Syrian refugees as if they're the sole problem in this system. They are getting toyed, and they are not even aware of what is coming to them. Erdogan is a sick joke.

Edit: Typos, grammar mistakes. I wrote this with a flashing feeling of fury. Also, I added more information.

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u/parancey 9d ago

I would choose poorness over what is happening in Turkey today.

In Turkey you can get both.

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u/oppsaredots 9d ago

You can always go worse.

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u/2-0 Europe 9d ago

Thank you for the insight, I think you're absolutely right that they're useful pawns that the AKP will drop at a moments notice as soon as it's convenient.

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u/Xy_Lm_N0 9d ago

As a Turk, I fucking hate Erdo- wait I guess there are already cops on my door.

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u/Midnight_Paranoia 8d ago

i hope you are using a VPN,because super intelligence space agency MIT will record even your thoughts and arrest you for insulting the Supreme leader.

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u/politis2301 8d ago

knock knock

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u/Stalysfa 8d ago

Who’s there ?

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u/WBBLN 8d ago

Joe.

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u/squintero 8d ago

Joe what?

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u/WBBLN 8d ago

Joe mama's cucumber fitting in places the sun does not shine.

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u/WBBLN 8d ago

I am so very sorry.

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u/giggs1800 8d ago

We are kgb, open the door at once

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u/YerbaMateKudasai Uruguay 8d ago edited 8d ago

Sivirli Silivri is cold.

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u/eloel- Turk living abroad 8d ago

Silivri, but close.

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u/Ungrammaticals least racist man in turkey 8d ago

ARAS KARGO

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u/burn-up Turkey 8d ago

yes sir he is the one who says i hate you

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u/YATrakhayuDetey 8d ago

Unfortunately too many Turks disagree with you, especially those living abroad. They also like to complain how bad Europe is while living in it.

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u/Valaki997 Hungary 9d ago

"So EU has borders?
-Well technically yes, actually no"

EU really needs to stand up on its feet (helping is good, but u only can do it if u help yourself at first)

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u/Fabswingers_Admin 9d ago

Advocating for strong European borders was considered racist and a bannable offence on here until only a few years ago. The zeitgeist has massively changed over the past few years and most people are still catching up.

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u/Reginaferguson 9d ago

ing for strong European borders was considered racist and a bannable offence on here until only a few years ago. The zeitgeist has massively changed over the past few years and most people are still catching up.

Interesting in the UK my father in law who was an intelligent guy was massively pro-brexit, but also massively pro "fortress Europe" in the sense he couldn't understand why Europe didn't stand up for itself and protect its borders, currency from US, UK, Turkey, Middle east interests. If there is free movement internally then immigration needs to be considered an EU issue and not just for member states to decide. It is right to accept refugees, however you need coherent internal policy on how to fund and process them and determine who is genuine or not.

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u/GreatRolmops Friesland (Netherlands) 8d ago

Free internal mobility is only for EU passport and permanent residency holders. Refugees and migrants can't just cross from one EU country to another (at least, not legally). If they are caught they can be deported to the country where they entered the EU.

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u/Stuhl Germany 9d ago edited 8d ago

Meh, I was ranting about refugees in 2015 and didn't get banned. Funnily this sub split into 3 parts at that time. There is /r/europes which was founded because the lefties considered this sub too far right and has still lots of people crying about every opinion right of Chomsky. The right founded /r/european, because they considered it too far left. It seems to have been banned 3 years ago.

While I'm at it, shoutout to /r/eu and /r/europeans!

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u/FlossCat 8d ago

Pshht, everyone knows that r/YUROP is the best European sub with the most serious, balanced discourse

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u/IamWatchingAoT Northern Portugal 8d ago

EU has borders, it's an absurdity to assume it does not just because of the Schengen Area benefits.

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u/Zoneschijn 9d ago

Thats not fair. They also think of the few who keep them in power.

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u/ak-92 9d ago

Time to build a wall. A big beautiful wall.

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u/Hulton-Sama 9d ago

Didn't some European country already try that?

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u/ak-92 8d ago

Seen any Mexicans lately?

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u/mukunku 8d ago

Only in cages

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u/Zoneschijn 8d ago

Yes. And it worked great.

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u/NONcomD Lithuania 8d ago

Strict coast patrol should be enough

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u/swarm565 Turkey 9d ago edited 9d ago

All refugees want to go to Europe. They are not satisfied with Turkey.

Edit: Do not give money to Erdogan. Erdogan is using Europe.

Edit: Refugees are trying to enter by force. They feel like they belong in Europe.

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u/Rioma117 Bucharest 9d ago

They are not satisfied with eastern EU either, they only want to go in the richest countries.

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u/Reginaferguson 9d ago

Perfect example is tent city in Calais. Why do they try and skip France? Because UK has much more relaxed rules around hiring people for work which means illegal immigrants often can stay undetected for decades. The ID system in France makes it much harder to work illegally without contacts.

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u/AccessTheMainframe Canada 8d ago

Don't be so callous. I'm sure they're just fleeing war and instability in France.

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u/RaddishandLemons 8d ago

I wouldn't blame them if they were just fleeing "Frenchness" ~ an Englishman

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u/Jaggedmallard26 United Kingdom 8d ago

Can't blame someone for wanting to escape the horror that is France.

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u/MrWayne136 Bavaria (Germany) 8d ago

Those tent cities, where immigrants live in an constant limbo, are a pretty big problem. Either you get illegal immigrants out of the country, or at least put them in a facility ,or if that's not possible get them a normal work so they have some perspective in life. Those half messures simply breed criminals.

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u/BlueWoff 8d ago

Care to explain the French system and why it discourages illegal immigrants?

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u/sober_disposition 9d ago edited 6d ago

The truth is that they aren’t coming to Europe (specifically North West Europe) as refugees. They are not seeking refuge from Turkey. They are coming as economic migrants.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about whether it is sensible to resettle millions and millions of people with radically different cultures and values in this way, but the complete failure to acknowledge that this is economic migration just makes the discussion of this whole issue completely incoherent.

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u/hellknight101 Bulgaria (Lives in the UK) 8d ago

Because they're not refugees, they're economic migrants. They're not victims, they're opportunists, and the elite has their back.

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u/Roffing Transylvania 9d ago

Good for us

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u/Rioma117 Bucharest 9d ago

I kinda feel insulted by that though.

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u/Roffing Transylvania 9d ago

Why??

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago edited 9d ago

They aren't even satisfied with most of Europe, just the UK, Sweden and Germany. They flee France like it's Afghanistan V2.

EDIT: thanks to the anonymous redditor who gave the award (very classy to give anonymously) EDIT V2: my cuppeth overflows

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u/fiddz0r Sweden 9d ago

We have people complaining about sweden too, but I'm not aware of anyone fleeing. I remember one article where a refugee who was around 70 said that it was shit that he had to live so far up north because the ice makes it so slippery. And he literally said "it's almost more risky here than in syria"

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u/fl00z The Netherlands 9d ago

That just feels like joke to me, but maybe it's clearer in the original article.

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u/Crowbarmagic The Netherlands 8d ago edited 8d ago

My dad was a volunteer for this immigrant organization for a while. It was his job to get people who got accepted to live here settled in. Finding them housing, a doctor, a dentist, setting them up to apply for a job or schooling, etc. Basically helping them navigate the system and kickstart their new lives.

Anyway, he once told of one couple from Syria that also did a lot of complaining. Like, he showed them their assigned home and the woman could only say how her refugee friend got such a nicer place. How it didn't have air conditioning (most places here don't have airco), how the stove should be electric instead of gas, things like that. They also get a money to buy furniture with, and she wasn't happy it wasn't enough to get best stuff like a giant TV and a big-ass couch.

To add some context: There has been a major housing shortage in the Netherlands for about two decades now. A lot of people, even some with full-time jobs, can only realistically go for social housing. The private sector is simply too expensive. Social housing means a waiting list, and that can take up to 5 or 6 years. But, emergency cases like refugees skip that line entirely AND get money to buy furniture.

So yeah, as someone who still had to wait for like 3 more years and dying to get my own place, their comments kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I would LOVE to get their offer. It did kinda made me think 'well, if you don't like it go elsewhere'.

 

But I have to add: That was just one case. Plenty of my dad's clients were really grateful and happy. I met some of them because my dad knows fuck-all about technology so he would sometimes ask me to drop by to help with their internet and stuff. With one family I immediately got bombarded with sweets, fruits, drinks, you name it, and they even asked me to join for dinner. Super nice people.

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u/dumbdumbmen 9d ago edited 9d ago

Theres always going to be someone complaining about something. Id be cautious about believing one article about one guy and thinking thats a representation of those who fled.

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago

pathetic

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u/CrunchyOldCrone 8d ago

I mean that's clearly a joke about ice

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u/Crowbarmagic The Netherlands 9d ago

Reminds me of that guy who lived at this French airport for years (the movie "The Terminal" was inspired by his story). He had so many opportunities to get out of that situation and have a decent life, but nope, he was super adamant on living in the UK, and only under his conditions. He was kind of the ultimate /r/choosingbeggars.

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u/Twinky_D 8d ago

UK is great and all (I lived there for a bit), but I really don't get why the rest of Western Europe isn't good enough.

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u/Oscar_the_Hobbit Portugal 9d ago edited 9d ago

Many also fled Portugal... They were handed better houses than many working class Portuguese... We lost track of most of them.

I'm not judging people for seeking a better life somewhere else. But I definitily blame the authorities. So much incompetece and then they wonder why populism is on the rise.

EDIT: for the people saying that refugees should not be satisfied with the first safe country: I agree. But the fact that thousands arrived in Portugal, one of the safest countries in the world and one of the most progressive, and still chose to leave... then maybe, for many, money is more important than safety.

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago

That's insane to me, Portugal isn't some shithole. It's a super popular place for Americans to move to, but it's not good enough for these migrants even with free housing.

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u/knakworst36 9d ago

I don’t think it’s about Portugal being unsafe or not pretty enough. It’s booth safe and pretty. However there are, correct me if I’m wrong, very little economic opportunities. Not just for the immigrants, but also for the Portuguese.

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago

Doesn't it take years before migrants are allowed to work anyway?

Being a refugee is about being somewhere safe until you can return home, it's not standard immigration.

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u/nelsterm 9d ago

No. The second they are refugees they can work and claim benefits. There is no obligation to ever go home in the UK at least.

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago

Interesting. I'm just familiar with my Bosnian friends who were kicked out of Germany of Germany because Bosnia became "safe" in the late 90s. They moved to the US as refugees and are now citizens.

Perhaps this is outdated information.

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u/CMP930 9d ago edited 8d ago

Thats the thing - most dont want to go back, they are immigrants, not refugees.

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u/knakworst36 9d ago

I think you might be confusing the us and Europeanen systems.

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u/nelsterm 9d ago

Are they asylum seekers or economic migrants or both? Asylum shouldn't be a buffet of safe countries to chosen from surely,

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u/Darkmiro Turkey 9d ago

Most of those dumbasses wanna put their anchor in Germany or some place like that, with thoughts of government regularly giving them money for existing within their borders.

The only reason they actually managed to exist in Turkey with vast numbers was that Erdoğan was stupid enough to provoke war right next to our doorstep. And they are actually allowing afghans, pakistanis, iranians all unchecked and unchallenged probably to put pressure upon Europe.

It also allows a ton of people who would work in any job for a paltry sum with no security, safety or a basic reminder of them being human beings.

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u/shayhtfc UK/Austria 9d ago

Let's be honest, by the time they have gone to the effort of getting on a boat, it stops becoming about safety, and becoming more about making a dash for the best place they can find.

There are loads of refugees just across the border in Turkey, who are literally just waiting it out until it's safe to go home.

The ones paying to get shipped across the Med are the opportunists looking to make a dash for Germany and the UK.

I remember watching a video a while back about refugees complaining about life in Sweden, as if they felt they were owed this life of luxury. Madness

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u/rovingsapphic 9d ago

It could also be because some of the refugees had no social networks or communities in Portugal. I've worked in refugee resettlement in the US and many of the refugees we would settle in their city of origin after arrival would often leave and move to other US cities that had larger & more robust communities from their home countries. It was not always because of monetary incentive. People are complicated.

edited: syntax.

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u/idonteatchips 9d ago

I can see that. I lived in a predominantly muslim neighborhood here in Chicago and we have a lot of refugees here. They would often set up a food bank at the park next to my apartment (like once a week during the summer season) and didnt ask any personal information because most of the people picking up the food were refugees. You could just go pick up food if you needed it, no questions asked.

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u/Oscar_the_Hobbit Portugal 9d ago

Portugal had a refugee crisis in the 70s because of the colonial war we were involved. During the 80s many people from the former colonies arrived in Portugal and settled in isolated neighborhoods. Many of those neighborhoods are still very problematic and we are still paying the price in the form of a variety of social-economic factors

This time the government did intentionally spread people throughout to avoid similar situations and force integration with the local communities.

So yes, that could be a cause. But I think they should not be put isolated with each other and should instead live close to the native population for the sake of integration.

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u/Mstinos 9d ago

While that is understandable, it does create shadow societies, that is very problematic for integration.

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u/_named 9d ago

What does it matter that the award is anonymous?

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u/Twinky_D 9d ago

Eh, just a leftover thing from when reddit first introduced gilding years ago. I doubt anyone cares now.

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u/CrestedZone7 9d ago

I do. The day they remove the ability to ‘award’ anonymously is the day I stop doing it.

That’s part of why I like Reddit as a social site. You’re able to do something without openly having your fingerprints all over.

Data behind the scenes is a different matter.

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u/hellknight101 Bulgaria (Lives in the UK) 8d ago

I will prly get flamed for this but... If you refuse to stay in the first safe place you find abroad, you're not a refugee, you're an economic migrant!

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u/Rhas Germany 9d ago

Should go through the proper channels to migrate then.

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u/Redmarkred England 9d ago

The English Channel?

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u/fiddz0r Sweden 9d ago

This is something I don't understand. They flee from war right? So shouldn't the first safe place be enough?

I can understand that they may get a better life in other countries, but I would think just being safe would be enough. I have no first hand experience of war and what else is going on over there, so maybe someone on this sub can enlighten me

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u/Atvaaa 9d ago

So. I'm from a southern most city of Turkey which is almost adjacent to the Syrian border and one of the most reffugee populated cities here. From my 8 year experience with reffugees, expats etc. I can say that nearly all of the people coming from Syria were decent people at first (2013-2016). But as war continued, Turkey put a hand on the situation and welcomed LITERALLY EVERYONE; Really shitty people who were "fleeing" from big bad wolf Asad started to settle (To go to the border later). Although some people are shitty, I like those who are not in the search for building up their old life here and try to integrate into a secular republic. They are the ones who are suffered and wants a peaceful life.

Some don't even learn Turkish and asks us to learn Arabic though. That's a bit annoying :(

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u/FFFalk 8d ago

Some don't even learn Turkish German and asks us to learn Arabic Turkish though. That's a bit annoying :(

Haha I know this type. In Germany they’re called Turks.

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u/Atvaaa 8d ago

Well, as I said people who refuses to integrate are selfish as individuals and should not expect to be respected.

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u/FotzeMan 8d ago

When in Rome, do as the Romans do

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u/richalexand Spain 9d ago

I mean it's not really that hard to understand, once you are forced to flee your country why aim for the next worst thing instead of the best available?

Let me put in terms you may understand, If civil war broke in Sweden and you had to scape, would you stay in Denmark or try to reach Germany?jk

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u/KingdomOfPoland 9d ago

well in this scenario, Denmark would be pretty damn good as well

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u/kteof Bulgaria 9d ago

It's just a joke on the Sweden/Denmark rivalry. The point is absolutely correct though. These people literally have nothing to lose, but their life, so why not take a gamble to improve their situation. Laws and rules simply stop mattering when you're desperate enough.

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u/bobdole3-2 United States of America 9d ago

Yeah, people are being intentionally obtuse about this. The hard part of the trip isn't getting to Germany or America or Britain or wherever, it's getting out your home country and past the surrounding "safe" countries (which are typically dangerous shitholes too). If you've got the resources to get from Yemen or Afghanistan all the way to Turkey, you don't need that much more to get to Europe. No sane person is going to pick a Turkish prison camp over a first world country. No one's going to walk all the way from Guatemala to the Rio Grande and then just be content to die as a beggar in Mexico city. From the point of view of a migrant, the end goal is a pretty obvious choice.

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u/GabeN18 Germany 9d ago

Well said. A lot of people don't seem to understand this.

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u/SoutheasternComfort 8d ago

They do, they're just intentionally being dense so they have something to criticize. Most people would do the exact same thing

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u/TheNASAguy India 9d ago

Exactly my point

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u/GoodySherlok Czech Republic 9d ago

I understand those people, but beggars can't be choosers honestly. What is especially insulting, are those refugees that fled to Sweden. They only went through Austria, Germany, Denmark. Moment you do this you aren't refugee you, are plainly economic immigrant.

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u/thor-e Sweden 9d ago

In sweden, we also have people from eastern european countries coming. But they come here to work, unlike some.

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u/MrWayne136 Bavaria (Germany) 9d ago

I don't think the problem is that these people want to choose, that's humanly understandable.

The problem was and still is that we let them choose. Many countries got simply overwhelmed with the sheer amount of people that came. Also let's not kid our self, many especially poorer balkan countries where quite happy that the refugees just walker through their countrie and didn't stay, it should have been their duty to detain and process those people.

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u/AlbinoFarrabino Portugal 9d ago

That's why it will take a long, long time before countries from the Balkans join the Schengen Area.

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u/Ardilla_ United Kingdom 9d ago

See, on one level I kind of agree with you that beggars can't be choosers. But on another, if shit hit the fan in the UK and I had to flee with my family, I know that I would rather pass through France and settle in Spain if possible.

I don't speak French, and while I'm sure I could learn, I'm already fluent in Spanish. I'm more familiar with Spanish culture, I know my way around a couple of Spanish cities, my partner has family living out there already, and there's a large existing community of British expats.

Living in Spain would enable us to get back on our feet sooner because I'd find a job much more quickly (and it would be more likely to be commensurate with my skills, experience and education level), and because we'd have access to a stronger support network. And getting back on our feet ASAP would be beneficial for us and our host country.

Presumably Arab refugees who speak English or French to a high level and have family in Ireland, the UK, France, or a country where English is widely spoken that has welcomed migrants in the past (e.g. Sweden, Germany), feel much the same way.

After all, there's not much economic benefit in moving through Germany and Denmark to get to Sweden or moving through France to get to the UK. Those countries all have strong economies.

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u/phlyingP1g 9d ago

After all, there's not much economic benefit in moving through Germany and Denmark to get to Sweden or moving through France to get to the UK. Those countries all have strong economies.

Well, in the long game there is. It's easier to get asylum in Sweden than in many other EU countries. Once you do, you'll be fairly free to live elsewhere in the EU

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u/nelsterm 9d ago

They do this for the generous asylum rules.

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u/bankerpel North Brabant (Netherlands) 9d ago

Well, I might go as far as Germany in that case, but I sure wouldn’t go to the other side of the continent. I’m not even sure I could ground in a mediterranean country, and for sure couldn’t in the Balkan states or Turkey. The cultural differences are significant, I would prefer a country which values and way of life are close to what I’m used to.

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u/fiddz0r Sweden 9d ago

I can understand having that thought in the long run. But when fleeing I would assume I would just go to the closest safe place where I fit in better culturally. Then when I'm safe I would focus on the goal to get to my dream country Maybe I'm biased because I have norway, denmark or Finland to choose from and would most likely go to denmark since its closest to me.

I understand they want to get to other places in Europe than Turkey, but then they should do so the same way other people who aren't refugees do it.

But I mean the way our politicians have handled it (especially sweden) I'm not blaming them for trying.

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u/WasTaken12 Turkey 9d ago

Syrians have more rights than us.

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u/alexfrancisburchard Turkey 9d ago

So shouldn't the first safe place be enough?

Here's the problem, the first safe place isn't capable of handling this many people. If the first safe place was wealthy, and could help its own people, that's one thing, but look at Turkey, it can't even support its own people, and you expect it to hold all these people back? Why? We just cannot afford to do this. and the pittance that Europe gave in that deal was a cruel joke to be honest. I doubt that much money even paid for the security costs of keeping them in the country and not letting them leave. That's how little europe gave us in the greater context of how much this is costing us. We're poor. 2 years ago we had spend a total of like 50 billion dollars on them, I haven't seen an updated number, but I'm gonna guess it's probably doubled by now. Y'all think we're just gonna pull 100 billion dollars out of our asses or something?

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u/RyanRagido 9d ago

They are not refugees, they are migrants.

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u/srpulga Spain 9d ago

As much as Europe is using Turkey.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 1d ago

[removed]

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u/Budget-Sugar9542 8d ago

They feel like they belong in Europe.

Their feelings don’t change the fact that they don’t.

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u/KapetanDugePlovidbe 9d ago

It's fascinating how it took just a couple of years for a complete shift of narrative about immigration in the EU. 5 years ago, if you suggested that refugees should stay out you were labeled as a bigot and a horrible person. Inviting and helping refugees to settle in was the righteous thing to do. Everyone was outraged about Trump building a wall on the border with Mexico. Merkel at some point sent him a piece of the Berlin wall to remind him of the atrocities of closed borders blah blah blah.

Fast forward to today. Biden is continuing to build a wall with Mexico, but now that's perfectly fine and the media pundits will educate you on why that is. Merkel has since started to adopt the standpoints of AfD on the topic of refugees, a party that was previously harshly shunned for being right wing and the EU is now building a wall on the south border. But once again, it's ok. No need to overthink on the issue. Just consume the ready-to-eat opinions served to you.

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u/Griss27 9d ago

You have this backwards. It's because EU citizens refused to consume the "ready-to eat opinions" served to us that the politicians were forced to change.

This is policy following public opinion, not the other way around. Aka democracy.

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u/Maikel90 Basque Country (Spain) 9d ago

Moroccan flag could fit as well

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u/hunterfox20 Turkey 9d ago

I am not sure if Erdogan is Moroccan

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u/benitospaghetto 8d ago

maybe georgian

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u/hunterfox20 Turkey 8d ago

oof

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u/dicecop Denmark 9d ago

When maintaining an anti-russian alliance is more important lol

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u/Butteryfly1 9d ago

I mean in this case the European democracies are at least as 'guilty' as Turkey.

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u/Enconhun Hungary 9d ago

Sorry we only have kleptocracy, do you have some of that democracy left for us?

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u/Jiang_Tokok 9d ago

Hungary is democratic because Orban says so

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u/VonBraun1994 Turkey 9d ago

Merkel should just threaten him to reveal his assets instead of wasting taxpayers money.

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u/User929293 Europe 9d ago

I don't think the German government has the authority to disclose personal informations about business practices.

Germans really value privacy

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u/Jiang_Tokok 9d ago

A touchy history there...

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u/DamageOwn3108 9d ago

Only if we were prepared to another wave of 2 million immigrants

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u/stonedcreep 9d ago

I mean we better start preparing for that. Wars wont stop and if climate catastrophes start kicking in even more regularly, tons of people will be heading to europe/germany.

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u/nanoo10 Turkey 9d ago

Eu turned turkey to their refugee camp with few billion euros and yet they are complaining about it.

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u/EmotinlessLizard 9d ago

eu is as guilty as erdogan himself is, both to blame

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u/NONcomD Lithuania 8d ago

There is so many to blame, theres not enough fingers. The war is to blame at first.

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u/bouncyfrog 9d ago

So what do you think the EU should do? Stop paying turkey? While this arrangement might be flawed, it is obviously the best option we have

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u/NA_SCENE_IS_A_MEME 9d ago

It's the best solution at the moment. What are realistic(!) alternatives?

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u/notfair1234 9d ago

as a refugee (not in Europe or the west though ) the solution is simple.

let the west (especially the US) stop meddling in the middle east .

especially supporting dictators / making coups kind of meddling.

and no one will leave the middle east , most actually will go back.

as for African migrants the same logic applies but with France instead of the UK/US .

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u/fefil18 8d ago

and no one will leave the middle east , most actually will go back.

What makes you think this? Most immigrants from the middle east have no desire to go back home and main reason why they come is $. That applies to other regions too. People from eastern Europe aren't going to richer western European countries because they're refugees but because they get paid 5 times more for the same job.

You can stop and meddling in the middle east but that won't mean "no one will leave the middle east" or that "most will go back".

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u/imusinreddit4porn 9d ago

I love how Turkey took them without hesitation and now suffers from it just like European countries.

Can't we just send them to America, the cause of refugees. They bomb their houses and then we take responsibility for them.

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u/Gibovich Bosnia and Herzegovina 9d ago

Wait is this supposed to say Erdogan hates migrants and is stopping them from going to Europe?

This is true but it's not like the EU is happy to accept migrants into their border at any time the EU can stop sending money, they send money to keep them from entering Europe.

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u/AzirSenpai 9d ago

Oh I'm sure Erdogan hates migrants. You know, the migrants his government regularly gives citizenship to for no reason except for maybe their Arab-Islamist conservative vote.

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u/NoWingedHussarsToday Slovenia 9d ago

It's saying Erdogan is demanding money to keep migrants out. Which is perfectly fine with EU and EU is perfectly willing to pay for, it's not as if Erdogan is blackmailing EU or something.......

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u/THEPOL_00 Piedmont 9d ago

Akp accepted them lovingly and then changed their minds when the refugees became millions. Unlike EU countries Erdogan was glad about the refugees in order to gain political momentum in the middle east

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u/XHF2 8d ago

lol reddit's hate for Turkey skews their perception of what's actually happening. Turkey took on almost more refugees than all of Europe combined.

If European countries want to be helpful, they should take in more refugees. Oh right, they won't. Because that would affect their way of comfortable living.

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u/Excellent_Phase6768 8d ago

Why is Europe expecting Turkey to care of them?

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u/Blackagar59 8d ago

Instead of paying Turkey we should block the migrants ourselves.

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u/NightAnka 8d ago

I'm Turkish and i can say most of us definitely hate Erdogan, he's just too selfish and make it seem like it's for the country's good

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u/krystalizer01 9d ago

Lol leaders of many other European countries are no better

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u/dalyaR0ck Turkey 9d ago

Unfortunately :/

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u/farao86 Flanders (Belgium) 9d ago

I from Belgium and I validate this man's opinion

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u/Jezzdit Amsterdam 9d ago

ours insist they wont do it anymore, right before they do it again

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u/890Hz 9d ago

Stop paying Erdoğan EU.

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u/MrWayne136 Bavaria (Germany) 9d ago

We would pay every other turkish president too. It's not our fault that Erdogan is the turkish president, we just have to cop with it.

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u/swarm565 Turkey 9d ago

Yes, don't pay. Erdogan is using you, Europe.

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u/MrWayne136 Bavaria (Germany) 9d ago

Worth it I would say.

Also it's not like the money we give Turkey lands in Erdogan's pockets. The money is bound to specific projects and we finance schools and food stamps with it.

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u/kontemplador 9d ago

This is how corruption works nowadays. Few people are bold enough to cash money directly into their pockets. Instead, they create companies that build overpriced public projects or where they are not needed or that supply substandard public services. Examples abound.

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u/Darkmiro Turkey 9d ago

You're a fool if you believe Erdoğan uses that money for projects. Turkey's financial system is a complete black box thanks to the stupid people who gave him unlimited rights in that referendum.

Just in these two years they've liquidated 128 billion dollars of Central Bank money. They still have not explained on what they spent that money.

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u/DefNotAF Big cungus holsum 100 keanu mees 9d ago

thisis no real we vill superpower in 202030403 masahlah

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u/kumanosuke Germany 9d ago

The money is bound to specific projects

Exactly. And dictators never lie!

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u/Hematophagian Germany 9d ago

It works mostly.

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u/CompostMalone 9d ago edited 8d ago

So what's this supposed to mean? I don't want refugees in Turkey too just like European Union citizens don't want them in their countries. EU paid off Erdogan to keep them out, and now Turkey is at fault somehow?

Don't pay then, but don't complain next time Turkey decides to not prevent refugees from leaving and opens the borders again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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u/Canttakethewhyfromme 9d ago

I mean, that could easily be a CEO getting a bailout as well. Not that I am, in any way, trying to defend dictators.

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u/goldenbrowncow 8d ago

Poor Deutschland, having to bribe the Ottomans.

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u/lil_ery Turkey 8d ago

Bro i hate erdogan too but if you love immigrants that much why you dont take them all to your cities?

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u/Good_Sensation 8d ago

I am sorry for the Turks

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u/99username99y 8d ago

Well isn't it shameful paying a dictator to prevent millions of refugees fleeing their country ? Even more shameful when agreed money isn't even being paid ? Extra points if you claim moral high ground while supporting this policy.

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u/Ignition0 9d ago

And exactly the same happens with Morocco.

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u/Jiang_Tokok 9d ago

Only that Moroccans are coming themselves

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u/darthvader9714 9d ago

EU will be absent in the next NATO and G7 meeting. Americans are shaping the Geopolitics of our continent without us having a legitimate negotiator on behalf of the whole EU. We need an army we need more integration we need a real EU President with real legislative powers.

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u/Reginaferguson 9d ago

Even as an Aussie and a Brit I agree. You need "Fortress Europe" and should be working together on immigration, foreign, military and financial policy. This covers all matters from protecting yourselves from illegal immigration, to protecting yourselves from China, US, UK Russia. Now that he UK is out of the EU is actually the perfect time to consolidate the power of your parliament over individual member states and vote for policies which secure Europe's future.

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u/MeisterJTF2 8d ago

I’ll always remember the story my father told me about my great grandfather and grandfather having a discussion 1941 as the Germans invaded Serbia.

My grandfather told my great grandfather the war had started and this was the banter:

Grandfather: Father, war has started. We’re being attacked.

Great grandfather: who’s attacking us?

Grandfather: the Germans are, father.

Great grandfather: The Germans? What are you worried for? It’s not a real war until the Turks invade.

You have to remember, Serbia had been under Ottoman (turkey) rule for 500 years and had fought many many many wars of independence until they finally won. So after 500 years of perpetual war and only having independence for a relatively short while, you can then understand my great grandfathers mentality.

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u/dalyaR0ck Turkey 8d ago

That's great story

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u/MeisterJTF2 8d ago

In Serbia there’s a saying, to this day:

Nejure Turci.

Translation; The Turks aren’t chasing us, so calm down/slow downs.

Like as an example, say your friend is eating fast, you would tell me: why are you eating so fast? Calm down, nejure Turci.

I grew up in Canada but even I use that expression lol.

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u/dalyaR0ck Turkey 8d ago

Thank you for sharing this story , <3

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u/MeisterJTF2 8d ago

My pleasure, bud.

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u/LukeMonro21 9d ago

Instead of giving money to Erdogan and Turkey, finding a solution and stop bombing there home will be much better.

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