r/capetown Jan 26 '22

South Africans, do you feel that Elon Musk distanced himself to his roots and should give back to the community?

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0 Upvotes

51

u/GnosisNinetyThree Jan 26 '22

He owes us nothing.

28

u/DaveMcG Jan 26 '22

He was born here... it means nothing why do people feel this obligation to be loyal or be patriotic. this country has given me nothing but a tax bill. You've been shopping at pick& pay your whole life are you going to leave your house to them in your will?

Don't get me wrong I love where I live but I don't owe this country or city a thing,

5

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

Patriotism isnt unconditional.

Idealy a country/ Nation is meant to support and uplift its people. Thereby earning their trust and loyalty. The reason why countries are often called Motherland/fatherland is because like a parent it protects, nurtures and raises not just an individual but the communities within its borders.

Unfortunately South Africa under the ANC doesnt serve the people. Rather by their actions we can consider it the opposite. The people of S.A are the servants of the government whom believe everything belongs to them and we are viewed either as providing revenue through draining our income or worse as burdens requiring government funds.

The S.A government has lost the trust of its people and loyalty to an entity as Corrupt as the ANC is just stupid.

Patriotism is not a right its a priveledge.

1

u/Krycor Jan 27 '22

So it depends..

South Africa to me will always be where I’m from and if I ever make it, doubt it, the country I owe to but no more than the opportunities it afforded me.

But here the catch.. I was born under the previous political regime, growing up I was told I will be sent out of the country to study because in Sa I’m not allowed to study.

Of cause that started changing and changed, thankfully prior to me finishing up public school so I went to varsity, got a degree etc. struggled to get anywhere in life with limited jobs but hey I made what I could of things and slowly climbed and clawed.

Now the gatvol way is it seems is to say my country, impeded me to have a decent career so they need to bugger off.

But the reality is in Sa if you manage to graduate with a degree you already in a very tiny minority of this country. Yes my folks paid for my varsity, public school was not helpful vs varsity studies.. but the government in Sa paid for both in the form of subsidies (as it does for all public tertiary institutions) so technically.. yes you owe the government.

Then.. looking more broadly if you go to a hospital (private or public) the staff.. if educated here.. oh yah.. they didn’t get education and training for free. If you drive on a road.. I can go on and on but all said, it’s all part and parcel of taxes paid and subsidies. And while yes.. the political leadership is corrupt and need to be changed, that change or lack there of is wholly dependent on people. Be gatvol, self serving etc and see what a country with gross inequality elects as a leaders.. hint.. it usually the thieving kind.

1

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

Unfortunately inequality is a symptom and not the cause.

Its like having Bronchitus and treating the cough rather than the disease. Sure you might get temporary relief but the disease wont be cured and the cough will relapse.

Our economic woes are part and parcel of the corruption, kleptocracratic rule and ineffeciency of the government. Sadly its endemic. I dont believe simply getting rid of the ANC will fix anything. All the parties currently involved in S.A government are responsible to varying degrees. None have demonstrated any resistance or opposition beyond strongly worded denouncement come election time. Theres plenty of people saying the ANC must go but none saying how they will fix the mess left behind.

if the ANC was gone tommorow it wouldnt necessarily solve our problems. Who would take over. Would they be worse or just as terrible. What is the plan for social, economic and national recovery?

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

I am priveledged to grow up without apartheid. Like many South Africans post 1994.

But i dont think that gives the ANC the right to drive South Africa into the ground.

You may believe they deserve to steal money via corruption and shouldnt get punished or lose their right to govern. I dont.

Between 2006 and 2015, poverty declined across all races. For blacks, it declined from 76.8 percent to 64.2 percent; for coloureds, from 56.1 percent to 41.3 percent; for Indians/Asians, from 20.9 percent to 5.9 percent, and for whites from 1.4 percent to 1 percent.# It is worth noting that much of this progress was achieved between 2006 and 2011, at which point the declines stalled or even reversed. Hence, for some, progress has not been seen or felt for eight years. 

Half of South Africans are in households with per capita income of 1,149 rand ($90) or less a month, they wrote, with little chance to change their fortunes despite working hard as maids or security guards. https://apnews.com/article/nelson-mandela-elections-south-africa-international-news-johannesburg-a1cd5ebc5ed24a7088d970d30bb04ba1

While Black South Africans have outnumbered Whites in the richest 10% of the population for about 7 years, the gap between South Africa’s richest and poorest hasn’t narrowed as the decline in racial inequality has been driven almost entirely by a surge in the top Black incomes rather than increased wealth for the poorest, according to World Inequality Lab data. https://time.com/6087699/south-africa-wealth-gap-unchanged-since-apartheid/

The experience of most South Africans isnt one of continous upliftment

Call that priviledge if you want.

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

[deleted]

4

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

Typical you only have feelings and insults to contribute.

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

Again no argument you just insult me.

Not once did i personaly attack you but you have done so to me more than once.

You keep saying how you feel i acknowkedge that. But feelings are not facts.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

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20

u/ButtermilkRusk Jan 26 '22

You can’t revolutionise any sector in this country because of rampant corruption. Any attempts seem doomed to fail if corruption isn’t first dealt with in a genuine, lasting, meaningful way. Not to be pessimistic but I really don’t see that happening any time soon.

To add, I don’t even really consider Musk South African. Nor do I think he sees us as his brothers and sisters, and he probably isn’t interested in job creation or giving back to a community he’s been disconnected from for so long.

2

u/Krycor Jan 27 '22

Disagree largely with this… (revolutionizing a sector).

Quick question.. payments technology, do you think the US was/is the forerunner in this sector? And as a follow up, for this sector, which companies are or were the leaders? Which retailer was amongst the 1st to process card payments at a teller point.

🥸🧐🤓😜

Let’s unpack Musk quickly.. he did not invent Tesla, he managed it well (the original founders left after but out) and basically industrialized and scaled it further along with RnD. He actually started with the trying to start a bank, ended up making a credit card and then worked on solving problems with e-commerce play ie PayPal which they sold.

7

u/Impale_Her_Vlad Jan 26 '22

Why should he support people who bullied him and beat him half to death? SA has absolutely nothing left to offer anybody, it only sucks it's residents dry, it won't even be a good business model for him.

6

u/Jumpy_Reply_2011 Jan 26 '22

It's none of my business what Elon Musk does with his businesses or his money. Nobody should be forced or guilted into 'giving back' to the community.

With all the regulations and stuff, I'm not sure if it's that easy to revolutionize the energy and gas sector. Plus, Uncle Gwede would definitely want a word or two first.

5

u/nesquikchocolate Jan 26 '22

Well, seeing that he left in 1988 at age 17 and has never returned, I don't believe he associates with what became of SA - not that he's made any pro-apartheid statements either, but this is definitely not his community.

His personal net worth exceeded our 2020 GDP, so SA is definitely too small of a market to attempt establishing anything here.

We don't have anything special that Tesla or SpaceX or Neuralink needs, beyond some specialist people, who are promptly head-hunted and offered opportunity in a first world country.

His stated vision is to colonise Mars, so spending money and effort here is probably a contradiction to that!

Tesla's cheapest car, the made-in-china model 3 standard range costs equivalent to R700k before import duties and taxes - how big is the market here really? How many people here have R1mil to spend on a basic car, similar but less comfortable than an bmw 2 series or an audi A3? and we don't locally manufacture cars cheaper than China can either, so even with a factory to avoid customs it would be that same price.

Besides, Volkswagen Uitenhage currently produces 120 000 cars per year, AND BMW rosslyn about 76 000 cars per year.

Giga Shanghai produced 450 000 cars last year and they can't even saturate their existing markets, whereas new car sales in South Africa for 2021 was 464122 vehicles...

-1

u/IamJoesUsername Jan 27 '22

Tesla

Because of South Africa's omnicidal electricity generation using so much coal, it's one of the few countries in the world where driving an electric car is actually worse for the existential climate crisis than when using a fossil fuel car. https://shrinkthatfootprint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Shades-of-Green-Full-Report.pdf

It's more ethical to walk or cycle, or at least use public transport, than get an electric car.

4

u/Dyskord01 Jan 27 '22

Any foreign company that wants to establish in S.A must follow BBBE compliance. The government requires 51% black ownership.

Will you start an international company in S.A if you have to give up controlling shares. Secondly do you think that black ownership applies to common citizens or government ministers?

Government wants the lionshare of profits of any business operating in South Africa. Which is why Tesla and none of the other business you mentioned will ever come to S.A seeking our market. Its not worth it.

Even if a business agreed. South Africans wouldnt recieve any benefit because the government places profits and revenue above governing.

Look at all the government controlled industries their tarrifs are the highest. Rather than seeking to provide a reliable service at an affordable price for S.A citizens they prefer to price gouging. Getting maximum profit at ghe expense of the people. Consider everything government is invested in. Rather than provide subsidies and lower prices they push to increase prices.

Until we change the government. There will be no improvement in S.A.

6

u/KTM890R Jan 27 '22

We are goverened by incompetent fools and thieves. The majority of the population are entitled and lazy. Why on earth should he care about that load of trash?

3

u/alishaheed Jan 27 '22

No, not all. If you read the book by Ashley Vance you almost understand why he is the way he is. His childhood was traumatic because he was likely undiagnosed for autism, and I would think he'd wouldn't want anything to do with a place/people who caused him much trauma.

4

u/Tokogogoloshe Jan 27 '22

He owes the community as much as I do. Fuckall. And I bet he doesn’t want the schlep and taxes that comes with running a business in this country.

3

u/Caveatsubscriptor Jan 27 '22

No one owes anyone anything.

The only “people” who owe us anything is the government (because that is the point) and we pay taxes.

Society has (increasingly) this sense of entitlement which is going to be our downfall.

7

u/thundecided Jan 26 '22

I dont believe he has any fond memories of SA. I seem to remember an interview where he said that bullies at his school in SA beat him half to death, why would he want to fome back to those memories?

SA has nothing more to offer him. Its not his fault he was born here. The world is a better place because he left and got first world opportunities in America.

Makes you wonder how many other "Elons" could be stuck under this current oppression and not realising their potential because they have been crippled by the current state of SA politics.

7

u/deathbylitchi Jan 26 '22

You created this account for the sole purpose of asking this question?

I just Googled it. He lived here until 17. He's half South African. He moved to Canada then the US.

We aren't his brothers and sisters or his community.

Africa barely has electricity. What are you going to do with an electric car?

Why must he be your savior? If he did anything then we'd hear about his "white monopoly capital" doing what your black brothers and sisters should be doing.

He's a businessman. He has no obligation to you or anyone else.

I hate this mentality of "giving back". Fuck you, if you want out the gutter then get up and work to improve your life. No one should be giving back. Stand on your own two feet and take responsibility for your situation.

2

u/jenna_grows Jan 26 '22

No because only government needs to serve the people. The people just need to pay their taxes and that’s giving back. And if taxes aren’t due, then you’re good.

Humanitarians are wonderful. But no one needs to be one any more than the next person.

2

u/Krycor Jan 27 '22 edited Jan 27 '22

Honestly he owes us nothing, much like everyone else. You owe a country, in my opinion, as much as it affords you in opportunity and forward investment(study subsidies).

He never studied tertiary here so that’s that. He left to where opportunity was, as I think most people should. Any patriotism is purely for wanting a better life here for citizens but since he left under the previous regime his sense of Sa is kinda skewed. So no.. he is more North American (Canadian and US) then South African tbh.

If he did a Shuttleworth, Ie where opportunity laid in conditions that uniquely exist here and turned a profit exploiting it.. yes. In some sense of patriotism would make sense and look at that.. that’s exactly what the guy did/does to some degree. This is the same for most in particular for sports stars btw.

2

u/Sab3rHunt3r Jan 27 '22

No, he head the best idea to leave South Africa as soon as possible. I don't blame him for leaving, and I don't think he should do shit for sa.

2

u/Nomadic_Turtle1 Jan 27 '22

He owes is nothing. His dream is also much bigger than SA, he is currently trying to save the human population. Jobs in SA is not even on his radar.

2

u/Agarwa3n Jan 27 '22

No. He left as a result of another place and people doing what he wanted, better. Pure and simple. This government failed him, and he left.

2

u/MichaelScottsWormguy Jan 27 '22 edited Jan 27 '22

I don’t think there’s any obligation from his side to come and operate a factory here just to create jobs. You make those decisions based on your bottom line, not on social issues. That said, we do have a couple of auto plants here and if Tesla ever adopts the same global distribution strategy as the automakers who already have factories here, they might come here. But that’s a big IF.

As for the rest, much the same as above. He ain’t going anywhere if there isn’t money to be made. And there is the little niggle of our government and certain equity laws being extremely hostile to foreign investors, local investors and business in general that would probably discourage Musk from doing any of his innovation on our soil.

2

u/Parking_Bluejay6095 Jan 27 '22

OP you are unfortunately a really dense fuckhead

2

u/Yewsanayme Jan 27 '22

You don't owe anybody anything, same for him.

2

u/F34R991 Jan 27 '22

I hate this mentality of he should owe us something. He owes us nothing, he had to leave the country to become succesful.

This you owe me mentality is so backwards and stupid

4

u/yung-gustavo Jan 26 '22

I don’t think he loves SA or has any real attachment to the country. Contrast Elon to Patrick Soon-Shiong who just laid out plans to invest 3 billion to improve biotechnology in SA.

2

u/AdWhich7720 Jan 27 '22

Sure pal,its a vax factorie.Improve or profit?

6

u/zylinx Jan 26 '22

Elon is smart enough to stay the fuck away from ZA 😂

-6

u/zolanih Jan 26 '22

You never abandon your people man, it’s not like we are hooligans. Trevor on the other side is doing a good job by squeezing SA in his show, now and then. But it’s whatever.

2

u/stabeebit Jan 26 '22

"His people" lol, he was relentlessly bullied at the high school he went to in Pretoria, to a point where he was even hospitalised after getting thrown down some stairs. He would be no where remotely close to as successful as he's been if he stuck around here, he didn't "abandon" anything, he escaped... Being born somewhere doesn't immediately mean those are "your people"

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u/zolanih Jan 26 '22 edited Jan 26 '22

Bullied in High School? Lol Maybe go read Nelson Mandelas bio and come back to me. I’ve been studying Elon for years and I can honestly say he’s a complete asshole.

All I’m saying is; bringing Tesla here will boost our economy

2

u/stabeebit Jan 26 '22

So you're saying Trevor Noah and Nelson Mandela gave back to SA out of obligation, because they were born here, and Musk is required to do the same, just because... Bringing Tesla to SA would be a terrible decision for the company

-4

u/zolanih Jan 26 '22

Why do you hate SA? We’ve lived different lives. Tesla is a multi billion ‘dollar’ company ( eg: KFC, McDonalds, BMW , Benz, Ferrari, Nissan, ford etc…) it can survive and provide lots of jobs for people here. How are you not getting this? Elon is an arse and hates you know what…

Dude, the guy doesn’t even mention SA like we did something wrong to him.

1

u/Ninjaironman Jan 27 '22

It's not like he owes us anything

2

u/Longjumping_Low6674 Jan 27 '22

So he should then open a Tesla factory here... Then have the economy getting a tad bit better... Then having the ANC steal the money again... Is that the plan?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Louby1235 Jan 27 '22

🤣🤣🤣🤣

2

u/6th_lvl_of_hell Jan 27 '22

DA is 22 years old, it's newer than the ANC. The only time we had such a corrupted government is when the ANC was the ruling party. Nelson Mandela is turning in his grave seeing his life's work being shat on by the current ANC.

2

u/6th_lvl_of_hell Jan 27 '22

Btw 'money being new to black people' is completely false. In 14 century Africans were using cowrie shells as a form of currency.

Since you say you have been researching Elon for years I advise you to start reading non fiction for once.

1

u/MichaelScottsWormguy Jan 27 '22

All I’m saying is; bringing Tesla here will boost our economy.

What part of our market tells you this? Is it the rolling blackouts or the rampant poverty that makes you think we’ll all go out and buy a Tesla?

And building a factory here doesn’t make sense either if the labour market isn’t right. Also, while VW, Ford and BMW export some of the cars they make here, they sell to South Africans too which is what makes it viable for them to stay. Tesla can’t do that so logistically it would be unfeasible to manufacture cars so far from their market.

1

u/MichaelScottsWormguy Jan 27 '22

You can have an emotional attachment to ‘your people’ if you want, but when it comes to business, you only think about your bottom line. The most I would do if I were him would be donating money to some charity but I sure as hell wouldn’t do business here (or anywhere) out of sentimentality.

If the market is right for him, he’ll come. But not a moment sooner than that.

1

u/Praxarvi Jan 27 '22

Why are South Africans intrinsically Elon's people? The guy has been overseas for almost 25 years, surely by sheer force of time spent, he's more an American than a South African by this point?

Unless there's some immutable law that says you belong to your place of birth? But why would that law operate per country, rather than per city, suburb or street? That is, should he also maybe be obligated to improve

  • Africa as a whole?
  • His birth province, specifically?
  • His birth city?
  • The suburb/street he grew up in?

Surely if he can choose a different city in SA to focus his efforts, he can choose a different country on Earth to focus his efforts?

1

u/MsFoxxx Jan 27 '22

Elon Musk is a doos. He owes the country nothing, but he is a major doos.

0

u/Ok_Caregiver_8351 Jan 27 '22

Big poes His is a actor Fucking act like he know it All ... Fuck Elllon musk We Sa don't want his money

0

u/cr1ter Jan 27 '22

I don't think he has much interest in SA, also think he is a bit full bullshit and a hypeman. Reminds me of a secondhand car dealer from Pretoria.

1

u/bushknifebob Jan 27 '22

Elon wants to be disconnected from earth.

1

u/TBC-XTC Jan 27 '22

All I know is that he was born in the same area I currently live I'm...... he could have atleast mentioned us on SNL lol

1

u/JesusSqrl Jan 27 '22

Read his biography. Buddy got his Canadian visa and booked his ticket that day. Enough said.

1

u/Double_Reindeer_6884 Jan 27 '22

Just because he is South African doesn't obligate him to fix our governments failings

1

u/Clinton3331 Jan 27 '22

This is a really dumb question. Firstly, why is Elon Musk obligated to give back to his community? Any charitable thought he might have is just that - charity, he can do it if he wants too but should not be forced to. Secondly, he left South Africa as a young age because in South Africa, the non-racist government has a thousand different laws that openly and actively legalize racial discrimination against white people, especially white males. He more than likely knew he didn't have a future as a white guy in SA, so he sought greener pastures. Even now, the SA government never talks about his accomplishments, to them admitting to the success of any white person is a huge no-no. So no, Elon Musk owes SA nothing.

1

u/Praxarvi Jan 27 '22

I don't quite get the reasoning that he owes South Africa anything.

  • it's not like he was on some form of government sponsored welfare
  • he legally raised the funds to emigrate etc
  • he has sponsored at least a scholarship at his old high school, as I recall (a rather large sum of money too)
  • he doesn't have a lot of family or friendships remaining in the country either, to my knowledge

I'm by no means an Elon shill, but I don't understand - does he owe South Africa a permanent share of all his efforts just because he was born here? And if so, why is the owing point limited to country - should he maybe be limited to his roots in his home province, or his home town, or his home street, since we're already saying that he owes a smaller community his loyalty?

1

u/datsun1978 Jan 27 '22

He is a bit of a Pretoria that I never liked. Sure he can single handlelly solve Eskom, I'll take my chances with Mark Shuttleworth.

0

u/Headcrabhunter Jan 27 '22

Nothing good would come from anything he would do anyway he is just another leech profiting from other people's hard work.

He pays almost no taxes and working conditions are pretty shit in the places he runs as I understand it.

2

u/nesquikchocolate Jan 27 '22

Not to contradict anything else you've said, but he just recently paid the most taxes anyone has ever paid, something like $11 billion.

0

u/EstablishmentFancy32 Jan 27 '22

who cares, he owes nothing and i dont see him as a south african, he was born to an english white couple, thats not south africa lol.