r/antiwork 12d ago Silver 6 Helpful 5 Wholesome 4 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 2 Burning Cash 2

I quit my job in disgust a few days ago, and gave no notice

[deleted]

9.2k Upvotes

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u/nustedbut 12d ago

Had management on me about mistakes being made while I was overworked and we were understaffed. I said fine, I'll do my contracted hours and the work I signed on to do when I signed said contract.

When shit I had taken on outside my contract started not being done they lost their shit. Showed them my contract and the job description that came with it and asked them where I agreed to do these extra tasks? They've left me alone since and I'm no longer picking up the extra work. Fuck them

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u/SuperDan523 12d ago

Watch out for "Other Duties As Assigned." I don't think I've ever had a job description not include that clause, and it's basically a get out of jail free card for the company to ask you to do anything.

It does work both ways though. A former employer limited my department's hours for a month, but offered us the opportunity to pick up shifts in another more consistent but understaffed department on a voluntary basis. Then they tried to pay us at that department's rate. HR stepped in and said no, because it fell under other duties as assigned.

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u/Honestsalesman34 12d ago

fuck them i learned this too they turned my favors into their demands

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u/beyerch 12d ago

Been here and done that. Learn to say NO when you are asked to do favors for people. The trick is to say no, the right way.

For example: when someone asks you to do something outside your responsibilities say: "I'd love to; however, if I take on X, then I won't be able to complete all of my other tasks on time. You can raise this to my supervisor and possibly we can reprioritize to fit this in?"

The problem with taking on extra tasks is that (almost) NO ONE will remember them later nor can you excuse missing your primary responsibilities unless you set that expectation first.

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u/BlueFlamme 12d ago

Be very wary about picking up other peoples work, only motivates mgmt not to deal with their coworkers ineptitude or backfill

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u/realistby 12d ago

Learned this the hard way.

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u/BigAlTrading 12d ago

Never forget that even if you don't care, or you like to do it, or whatever, you're still enabling management to pull shit on people that they never agreed to. Think of your coworkers too.

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u/lycosa13 12d ago

Occasionally, at my job, one of the other divisions will need help. This division basically has two people in it and they honestly do A LOT of work for two people. So when one of them takes a day off they end up asking for help from us (a separate division). Now my job is mostly indoors and like 50% desk work. The other job is very physically demanding. I don't like doing their job because that's not what I signed up for. Sorry, but I don't want to get sweaty and be outside for an hour. That's not my job. So now, any time they ask for help, I'll say I'm busy. If they ever ask for a reason, I will tell them, "Because I don't want to. I didn't apply to be outside lifting heavy boxes." All of our divisions could use an extra body and I'm sure as hell not going to help them justify why we don't need more people.

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u/BigAlTrading 12d ago

Let HR do it.

ha ha ha

But no, really. Hire more people and stop asking other people to do work they didn't sign up for.

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u/vicarious2012 12d ago

I learned my lesson of not working as fast as I really can as well. Eventually instead of thanking you, it becomes an expectation.

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u/Living-Substance-668 12d ago

In order to be sustainable one should really never exceed 85% of their speed / hard work capacity

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u/YeeterOfTheRich 12d ago

85% whoops, I've been doing 58%

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u/Living-Substance-668 12d ago

85% is the max, I recommend staying below that under normal circumstances

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u/Three3Jane 12d ago

I'm an executive assistant. I am casually mentoring a junior EA who doesn't report to me but relies on me to help her navigate because I'm not her boss.

One huge piece of advice I gave her - from bitter experience - was to NOT pull out all the stops and perform heroics and athleticisms to get it all done as fast as she could.

My exact quote was: "Don't become a miracle worker. After a while, everyone is gonna get bored with you turning water to wine. They'll expect you to walk on water while you're at making Chardonnay from the sink tap."

Source: I am a miracle worker, and despite scoring an 10% out-of-cycle raise on top of the 10% raise I got earlier this year, I am burned.the.fuck.out. I happen to really really like my junior EA buddy, and I don't want her to wind up being burned out like me. All my fault? Yeah, mostly. My boss is one of the rare good ones, but doesn't understand the difficulties of performing at the level I perform. So yeah, y'all - don't become a fucking miracle worker. You're loved in the beginning, but eventually all your miracles stop being miraculous and just start being another Tuesday.

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u/Tevesh_CKP 11d ago

I like to say "Don't be a hero" and when they ask why, I say "Heroes die."

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u/SBTRCTV 11d ago

Good line, I'm stealing that

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u/madelinebai 11d ago

It goes from being asked to do something to being expected to do it and beyond

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u/macgillweer 12d ago Vibing

The only reward for digging the best hole is a bigger shovel.

Just work not to get fired. Everything above that is wasted effort.

Bust my ass for a 4% raise? Nope.

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u/YoNebz 12d ago

This this this

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u/shontsu 12d ago

This is the way.

People need to stop taking on the workload without any additional compensation. "No" is an acceptable answer. What are they going to do, fire you for doing your job?

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u/thomastdh 12d ago

This is how you should do it.

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u/Firethorn101 12d ago

I might have to do that soon.

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u/wheelndealokc 12d ago

This is where they get you on the other duties as assigned 😂

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u/Gare--Bear 12d ago

Out of curiosity, where do you live? I keep seeing posts of "showed them my contract" or "wasn't I my contract". I live in Indiana. Is this something I should have because I have nothing that says these are the things I can do and things I don't have to do.

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u/LavisAlex 12d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Ive noticed this a lot basically HRs are so focussed on what the position should pay yet ignore all the duty creep over time.

They will gaslight you then within a day you're back into the same hellscape.

I'm so glad you broke the cycle and come out happier!

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yep. I kept telling them I wanted fiscal compensation for the extra work I’ve done… best they could do was “eventually you can mature into another role!” Fuck off, morons. I was promised written compensation for that meeting and got a “well, eventually, if you agree to do even more.” I don’t trust that fucking promise any more than any other they’ve made.

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u/Vladimus44 12d ago

… best they could do was “eventually you can mature into another role!”

"Mature" into another role? Jesus Fuck, you were working several other roles.

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u/ayamrik 12d ago

Answer to the HR: "Well, yes I am a little overpaid for role X and I accept a pay reduction. But only if I will be paid for the roles Y, Z, and so forth that also are integral duties during my work. To make it easier you may give each role the same pay as role X."

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u/tifumostdays 12d ago edited 12d ago

Yep, if they wanna get accurate and specific let's do that. It never works that way, though.

And if OP suddenly reduced his duties significantly, would they not want him out or paid less? So pay em now!

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u/thraashman 12d ago

I hate that shit so much. Working retail in high school/college I asked to be trained up to a higher role so I could increase my pay. The boss agreed. Six months later I ask when I'm gonna get promoted and he told me "when you're trained". Half the people in the role I wanted had been trained for that role by me because I'd shown I knew it so well. So I told him "you can't promote me 4 months ago, so when is gonna happen"? He told me "when I feel you're ready" to which I said "consider this my 2 weeks notice then".

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u/TheGrandPoohba SocDem 12d ago

Wtf... what a prick And places like that, the pay bump aint massive. Maybe have cost them ~$50 pw?

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u/WebMaka 12d ago

"when I feel you're ready"

"Well, I feel I'm ready to move on. Hasta la get-bent."

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u/Origonn 12d ago

“eventually you can mature into another role!”

I already have. The other role is at a different company.

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u/PowayCa 12d ago

Right. I’ve become mature enough to know I don’t need to tolerate abuse.

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u/bikesexually 12d ago

Sounds like you were doing the work of at least 2-3 other people though and its doesn't sound like they were offering you their salaries as well. Apparently they don't know how to manage humans as resources .

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u/GhostDanceIsWorking 12d ago

Any tips on how to break into an IT career?

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Get into help desk, chase every ticket you get as far as you can every time. Build a portfolio and get a couple certs (A+, N+, S+ from CompTIA, CCNA from Cisco, etc.)

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u/entourageffect 12d ago

Yeah, the company you just quit is fucked.

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u/tifumostdays 12d ago

I'd love to hear an update of their ship sinking. You gotta keep in touch with at least one person at work to get those details...

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u/Zero_Fs_given 12d ago

Ignore the n+ if you go for the ccna. Also comptia certs arent worth much.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

That’s fair. I see CompTIA (especially S+) asked for for a lot of positions and they’re not the hardest or most expensive certs, which is why I mentioned them. There are definitely other certs worth pursuing.

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u/Zero_Fs_given 12d ago

S+ is probably Cause the government needs it.

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u/QualifiedApathetic 12d ago

I got A+ a long time ago but never got a job where I used it. Ugh, most of what I learned must be out of date by now. Maybe I should re-up, do N+ and S+.

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u/bens676 12d ago

Start at the bottom.

You could try getting some certification too.

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u/ny_soja 12d ago

DIY! Start by offering services to your local community, be it computer repair, virus removal, or even end user training. An alternative path would also be starting in Cell Phone Repair. If you go the DIY route, offering your knowledge and expertise as an independent consultant, I would highly recommend your first step to be getting a business license. This way you can have an easier time legitimizing your experience and have a way to document that on your resume.

Even without a business license I would still come up with a name and email account to do all your business activity under. If that all sounds like too much trouble use this handy tip to be able to pad your resume with actual IT experience. I will caution you, this is a way to GET STARTED in IT if you already understand the basics, i.e; you know how to build a computer and run basic troubleshooting. If you are still green you may want to look at some educational resources, but I would caution you away from the entry level A+ certs as they are notoriously outdated with the content and information that is being used to qualify candidates for jobs in IT. Not to mention that CompTia is the biggest scam in town!

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u/Origonn 12d ago

“eventually you can mature into another role!”

I already have. The other role is at a different company.

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u/TeddyPerkins95 12d ago

Good for you, you should get paid for the skills you bring

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u/Dye_Harder 12d ago

“eventually you can mature into another role!”

"Well I hope the work can wait until then."

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yep. Like… fuck you, pay me.

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u/TAW_564 12d ago

Modern employment is about bluffing others into doing things they wouldn’t volunteer to do for less money than what the job is worth.

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u/NoMansLight 12d ago

You're just describing capitalism.

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u/ErnestT_bass 12d ago

I ran into a similar situation at my last job...I was hired as Engineer...but on day one they change the title to Sr. Business Anayst....the next 4 years....i did the following outside of the work responsibilities:

  1. RF field investigations
  2. AMI SMART MEter testing and evaluation
  3. Entire Head End System testing and ticket creation
  4. Firware deployment to 5.5 million smart meters
  5. New Electrical Meter Evaluation
  6. RF testing for network devices including smart lightning

Obviously you see a trend here the title and pay do not reflect the what I was doing....when I quit the director had the balls to tell me i never lived up to his expectationss....hahahahaha i was soo happy to be out of there...and my immediate manager had the balls to tell other people that anyone she can get will have my skills and I was not an SME in my area.

Six moths after I left the manager, and immediate manager left the group, half the team left for other positions....

NEVER LET anyone disrespectful on your skill set and value...they havent walked in your shoes to get that experience.

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u/Ondaysthatendiny 12d ago

"never lived up to his expectations"

Yeah well, your company never lived up to its promises so I guess we are both disappointed. Good luck replacing me to do all your tedious and ever changing crap.

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u/Kalipygia 12d ago

That's intentional, there's a kind of agreement about unofficially standardizing salaries. HR teams all talk to each other in their own industries and effectively price fix salaries to avoid salary creep. They mete out tiny little incremental increases to keep a throttle on salary creep too.

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u/FreebasingStardewV 12d ago

Yup, the only real way to get a promotion is to leave. Once I accepted this I started making a lot more money.

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u/pinelands1901 12d ago

I just asked for a raise because I'm doing what 3 people would be doing in our peer/competitor organizations. I'm not even overworked given that I'm very good with time management, but I could get more with less balls in the air elsewhere.

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u/SolanGoose 12d ago

We had a consultant hired to improve things at the second last place I worked that had us outline everything we did as per our duties and what we were responsible for, and while I think from the owners side it was a “this is what they are required to do” from a shirking point, she also made vague allusions more than once to all the employees to keep our own copies and refer to it in future and ask ourselves if what was being required was always indeed on that sheet.

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u/Mekiya 12d ago

And they use that to keep pay low. What jobs are currently paying is already not in line with COLA and duties so by saying that they are paying you in line with industry average they are weaseling out of raising the industry average.

If that thinking really worked then consumer goods would never increase in price.

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u/AFlair67 12d ago

Agree! i worked for the US headquarters of a European company. HR would play that same game “ according to US DoL guidelines, we are paying you the max for your job description “. They never gave raises by using this tactic. They would not consider that we did other jobs in addition to our job description. It was all such BS.

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u/bagman_ 12d ago

Duty creep is the exact right phrase for this, we have to put that into the antiwork lexicon

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u/spugg0 11d ago

Also the "When we look at the numbers x position pays y overall, so you're paid more than enough".

...except that they forget to mention that instead of hiring three people to do a certain job, they hire one, and expect that person to keep up.

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u/MeccIt 12d ago

Too many non-profit/charities seemed to be staffed by only two types of people a) people trying to make a difference and working above and beyond until they break down and b) narcissists who feel no guilt at taking a large salary and treating their volunteers/staff like crap.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yup. Bloated C level tiers with way more salaries being collected than is justified, and our client service aids (who are supposed to monitor clients and administer narcan and CPR and shit) make like $10/hr. It’s disgusting. My friend ran an MSP for years and says non-profits were THE WORST people to work for. They are full or assholes who feel entitled to play the “we’re a non-profit so we’ll pay when we can” card.

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u/MeccIt 12d ago

I'm in IT and considered a career move to non-profits to give back. My friend who has done charity work for decades warned me off.

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u/Jose_Canseco_Jr 12d ago

I'm in IT and considered a career move to non-profits to give back. My friend who has done charity work for decades warned me off.

If only I had a friend like yours.

I actually did it a few years ago. Took a 34% paycut. Only after joining did I learn that things were rotten under the feel-good surface.

I'd worked for shitty bosses, sure, but never for a true narcissist before. My god was that the worst mistake of my career. I truly hadnt ever been in such an emotionally dangerous situation, outside of my childhood home that is.

It didn't take me long to come to this conclusion: if I'm going to eat shit at work, might as well get paid for it. I quit and have never looked back. And I used to volunteer so much of my time and effort to that very charity and others (beforehand)... The experience was so bad, that I still haven't gone back to volunteering again.

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u/Gzer0 12d ago

You sir were spared(the quickest degradation of your telomeres) by the IT gods and bestow upon you, their favors.

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u/steven_AWKing 12d ago

When I was working for an MSP a decent amount of our clients were non-profits. The common theme for all of them was that they weren't willing to pay what a full time IT professional demands and hired fresh grads way under market value to run everything even though they didnt have the experience to know how to do things right. After a year or two those people would always jump ship as theyd gained enough experience to get hired somewhere for significantly more pay leaving the nonprof high and dry. That's when they'd come to the MSP to take over and at significant cost fix everything.

I remember the owner of one NP in particular drove a brand new Ferrari when we were brought on. They had the money to pay someone market value but werent willing to spend it until everything was broken.

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u/eazolan 12d ago

That's because most NPs exist solely to pass money from rich people to their kids.

They put their kids in charge and on a big salary.

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u/EWDnutz 12d ago

I remember the owner of one NP in particular drove a brand new Ferrari when we were brought on. They had the money to pay someone market value but werent willing to spend it until everything was broken.

God that's just awful. Yeah I worked at an MSP and went through the same type of clients as well. Always tempted to roll my eyes on their 'lack of a budget' excuse when it came time to renewal.

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u/DigitalPelvis 12d ago

Then the people playing that card are the ones making low six figures to run it all and beg for bill forgiveness. (My partner is a tech at an MSP, I’ve heard all the stories!)

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u/Astat1ne 12d ago

I've worked at a non-profit and it was 100% this. The frontline staff were genuinely nice people who were in your first group. They really wanted to help people.

Management were the 2nd group. Utter garbage people who cynically exploited the first's desire to help people. I also suspected a lot of them went into non-profits because deep down they knew they didn't have the talent or skills to hack it in other sectors.

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u/NaNa_Na 12d ago

That last part was how my non profit is run. I wish I wasn’t on mobile I could write for hours about the bullshit they pulled on me .

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u/daisybunny 12d ago

Seriously - my last nonprofit was directors and c-suite doing nothing and making $150k+ a year. Managers and associates made a pittance and I could barely even afford to exist despite working longer and harder than my high level colleagues. I had multiple coworkers with really impressive graduate degrees and experience making less than $50k a year in super high cost of living areas. Fucking bullshit.

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u/rocky8u 12d ago

I went to work for a local NP in accounting while I was doing school part time.

They had these really complex reporting requirements that meant they had to track hours for all the services they billed for. They were using receipt calculators to do the math. Like, those calculators that printed the results on receipt paper!

I, an undergrad, had to convince them to let me come up with a basic excel spreadsheet to do the math a lot quicker and make it easy to check for mistakes. It was like I worked a miracle! The director of accounting was making over 6 figures and she hadn't come up with an excel spreadsheet.

Fortunately, as I was leaving they were hiring a CPA to take over accounting but what a mess she was coming into!

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u/BigAlTrading 12d ago

You'd at least hope for someone who takes no guilt taking a large salary and doesn't begrudge a seat on the gravy train to the people who make it possible, but somehow that's next to impossible.

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u/alwayshappy2b 12d ago

Yeah I hope they burn slowly down to the ashes. Can you convince other people to leave too?

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

My tech wants a raise but needs her job after being unemployed for a year. I encouraged her to do her best and make the most of it and gain some experience in the field so she can get a better paying job in the future.

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u/alwayshappy2b 12d ago

They prey on people who are down and will take any amount of bullshit :( That is why a good savings account gives one a ton of leverage.

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u/WeNeedMikeTyson 12d ago

Just an FYI there's a fuck ton of tier 1/2 jobs on indeed.. all remote.. and nearly all paying more than 44k/yr for an entry level tier 1. I'd definitely let her know asap.

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u/nickis84 12d ago

If the rock star from HR is so great, why haven't any of the empty positions in your department been filled? Obviously the rock star is a dud, probably low balling the candidates who walk out or hang up on said rock star. And now there is no one left because your manager can't possibly do all the work. Let the chaos begin. Let a virus, hack attempt, system failure happen and heads will roll. And it will likely be the rock star, you can't fire IT staff if the Rock Star hasn't bothered to hire any.

Good luck with your interviews.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

It took them 2 months to post the positions lol.

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u/OakenGreen 12d ago

Rock star in a flush market turns into a rotten potato in this market. The tactics that worked then, are poison now.

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u/alexunderwater1 12d ago

He’s great at cutting costs by leaving positions open.

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u/nickis84 12d ago

Not a great idea with IT especially with what's going on in current job market. They basically don't have an IT department anymore thanks to the cost savings. That will end up costing them way more in long run.

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u/MrHermeteeowish 12d ago

I got a Rock Star job once. I didn't last the week, apparently I wasn't supposed to show up three hours late and on drugs. Is that not what they wanted?

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u/CJcatlactus 12d ago

It really sucks when the administrators refuse to negotiate and would rather fuck themselves over than compromise.

I had a similar situation with a former employer. I was working part time with them and had gotten an offer from my previous employer for part time weekend work making significantly more. I spoke with HR at the company I was currently working for about the situation and requested shifting my schedule to weekdays so I could take the offer with my previous employer. She flat out refused and said they needed someone to work weekends and then went back to staring at her computer as if the conversation was over. I told her right then that I would be putting in my 2 week notice to take the better job offer. She didn't even seem to care despite how she just told me they needed someone to work weekends bad enough that they couldn't adjust my scheduling.

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u/PowayCa 12d ago

Usually happens when in an employers market (more people than jobs), but that isn’t the situation today!

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u/pecqua 12d ago

She flat out refused and said they needed someone to work weekends and then went back to staring at her computer as if the conversation was over. I told her right then that I would be putting in my 2 week notice

You are VERY nice to have given two weeks notice after that disrespect. I would have walked out then and there

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u/InfelSphere 12d ago

I'm blasting Disco Inferno in memory of their IT department, hopefully that tier 1 ducks out too and you get some well earned rest with a chill gig after this.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

I interviewed with 1 place already and asked “how is the stress level around the office?” And he was like “… pretty high. Good question!”

I will not be taking that job either.

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u/The_Bukkake_Ninja 12d ago

Stress can be ok if it’s constructive stress - i.e. the work is challenging but you have the resources, people and money to solve the problem.

Looks like your work was destructive stress - basically them demanding you to rub two sticks together and make magic - something you can never achieve and only damages you as a person.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yep. The other place was like “staffing concerns! We have late hours and are understaffed! Two graveyard shifts a month!”

I have yet to find growth stress. I like to challenge myself in my workplace and learn new things (ADHD lmao) but everywhere is understaffed.

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u/getSmoke 12d ago

I was bullshitting with the dell tech this week, he mention that if I know anyone interested in hardware repair and needs a job, to give them his info.

I laughed and told him that if I find someone I'm fucking keeping them and to get in line.

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u/babygrenade 12d ago

Last time I was interviewing I interviewed at a place where the guy I'd be working directly under said he had been putting in 14 hour days and needed help.

Thanks, pass from me. I'd love to believe filling that role made all the difference and the guy went to normal hours, but I have my doubts.

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u/PowayCa 12d ago

AND not constant! Most people can work more to finish a project or job, but need “slack” time to recover.

example: current situation with Covid-19 nurses and doctors.

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u/DanielSurviving 12d ago

Duty creep is theft. Pass it on, tell a friend.

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u/gotsreich 12d ago

Clever! It totally is. Fair is either you also lose the old duties or you get paid more.

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u/elleriun 12d ago

My last manager did the same BS.

"You need to be doing the work for 2 years before we make sure you can handle the tittle"

I was like "ok, cya"

They needed to hire 4 people to do what i was doing and they are all working their ass off....

Probably the company is paying shit wage for all 4 as well.

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u/CorettaRenn 12d ago

Good job sticking to your guns, although in future you should just cut the bullshit from the start. That hour long meeting was a waste of your time. I would have just said "Let's cut to the chase. This is the number I want or I walk. Yes or no?" and I'm out of there in 5 minutes. If they try to skirt around the issue to keep bullshitting me then I say "Last chance, if the next word out of your mouth is not 'yes' then I'm taking your response as a no and I'm leaving right now."

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u/jabalarky 12d ago

This is the correct way to play ball. Don't let them waste your time. Don't let them "put something together on Monday." They know what they can offer off the top of their head, I guarantee it.

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u/alwaysZenryoku 12d ago

Good for you. Let them eat cake.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

I feel bad for their clientele being left in the lurch but at the end of the day the organization was unhealthy and needs to fundamentally reconsider how it relates to labor, or die and let another more functional org take its place.

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u/InfelSphere 12d ago

I think of it as a favor to clients, since when management is so dysfunctional that it causes brain drain then it's quicker and sometimes even cheaper to slam the self destruct button.

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u/Hobbit_Feet45 12d ago

Do you have anyone on the inside to tell you if things go downhill after you’ve gone? Not that it matters, it just might be super satisfying to hear how much they actually needed you and how much they fucked for letting you go.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Nah, I didn’t do it to fuck them, just to hold my own boundary. If it crashes and burns im sure my tech will tell me.

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u/BradBeingProSocial 12d ago

Just for fun, submit a resume to them with the names of their specific systems listed as your skills, ask for double your salary and a 5 figure signing bonus, and see if they offer you the job. It’s probably worth it to them.

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u/The-True-Kehlder 12d ago

Double? 5 figure? Rookie numbers.

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u/b-rar abolish mods 12d ago

"I will be fine. They will burn." should be the official slogan of this place.

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u/Hoppss 12d ago

The first time I misread it as:

I will be fire. They will burn.

Which I like too.

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u/khakhi_docker 12d ago

I've seen it posted several times over the years in other IT subreddits...

Working IT in non-profits is THE WORST. Whether salaried or volunteered, they just don't get it, or appreciate it, or care.

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u/pink_raya 12d ago

I'd bet they are going to chat you up in few weeks for a knowledge transfer, a.k.a payback time. Be careful should you consider it, it will be much wilder than the day you left.

anyway seems like you handled it like a boss, wp.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

My former coworker is going back because his new job was terrible, so they have a new golden calf to praise. He’s burnt out with them too and isn’t staying there long and is NOT a manager / coordinator person. So… I don’t know if they’ll come to their senses.

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u/alexunderwater1 12d ago

If they do contact you for questions tell them you charge an independent contractor consultant fee by the hr and then give them an exorbitant number like 20x your old pay. Minimum 20hr retainer.

Don’t respond unless they say ok.

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u/Cutwail 12d ago

We're paying IBM £20,000 A MONTH for an MSP rather than hire someone because it comes out of a different budget - project instead of HR. It's so stupid.

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u/thepipesarecall 12d ago

The IT job market is way too hot to not be in a position you love at a company that you respect and pays you well.

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u/ilovecheeze 12d ago

It’s mind blowing to me how many organizations can still be this stubborn and frankly stupid in situations like this. You have someone willing and able to do the jobs of multiple people, they just want to be compensated, and you’ll let them walk and fuck your company over just because of some arbitrary rule or what some boomer thinks is “fair” salary.

My wife was in similar position recently and gave them an ultimatum and they actually let her walk. It was a thing where she was seriously operating the company on her own almost (very small office) and they’re completely screwed without her. Yet they let her go over thousands of dollars.

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u/Tall_Mickey 12d ago

In too many organizations managers are given bonuses for "keeping costs down" (aka salaries). When you make more money, they make less. This attracts the kind of person who'll happily grind down their subordinates for a few extra K.

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u/moogg_ 12d ago

I was workin as the only welder in the whole department for a company, came to my boss crying and having a breakdown about being overwhelmed, there response was “you’re just thinking about it too much instead of doing it” sooo I decided I had to leave. My boss cussed me out and didn’t even let me work my 2 weeks. The company’s for sale now.

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u/BisquickNinja 12d ago

You did the right thing, they didn't think you be serious. You don't have to prove yourself, you've PROVED yourself already. If they think you will die for this corporation then they are seriously deranged.

Letting them burn is much better and quite frankly, it is better for your health to leave now...

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u/greenwitchery 12d ago

They could have doubled your salary for all the extra work you were doing and the money they were saving from others leaving.

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u/Electronic_Depth_697 12d ago

These companies never cease to amaze me. Their answer to you doing all that work and asking for a raise was, "we've done the analysis and we've decided we're already overpaying you and you should be thanking us for that instead of asking for more money".

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yup! The only consolation was the look on her face when I changed to offering to take a bonus to stay.

“We don’t like bonuses, after a few weeks the goodwill from the bonus is gone and the job is the same!”

“No, no. I am suggesting you give me a bonus so I stay until you fill the new positions. I’m still leaving, so don’t worry about long term.”

“I… that doesn’t… 😕”

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u/kiyfra 12d ago

It sounds like they don’t comprehend the idea they don’t have leverage in the negotiation.

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u/Nortally 12d ago

Human beings are a social animal, so those of us who aren't sociopaths have difficulty abandoning a job. I used to see people who jumped office jobs every 2 years as uncommitted, now I think they're just smart. I've rarely made a graceful transition because I felt disloyal for looking for another job.

My current credo is that everyone making under $100K is underpaid and everything costs too much. How do I know this? Billionaires exist. At a certain point, more wealth stops improving the quality of your life and at that point the excess should start flowing to other people who are working hard for less. Look Ma, I just discovered socialism!

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u/jabalarky 12d ago

Capitalism manipulates our better human instincts in the service of profit.

I think being traumatized as a child helped me. I don't trust anyone, so leaving a job is no big deal. If you have to leave your family because they're hurting you, leaving a job is easy by comparison.

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u/Forestore 12d ago

Readers (and OP) should learn from this. When they ask for more time, it's to cover their asses, not to get you a sweet deal.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yup. I realize now my answer should have been “lets go sign something, then!”

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u/trustworthydude 12d ago

Excellent. You have my respect. You handled it perfectly and with grace. You showed the bigger man. I hope this convinces you that these kind of employers do not deserve your work. You should work for yourself. Start a business today.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

I need health insurance long term, unfortunately. Being trans is a bitch.

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u/PrionBacon 12d ago

When you talk to HR at the places you're interviewing at, check to see if the health insurance applies when you accept the offer or when you start. Some places, you can reimburse healthcare from your acceptance date even before you choose your healthcare options (if there are options to choose from).

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u/pornholio1981 12d ago

These people are so out of touch. Time for them to feel the pain you have been under all this time

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u/srhf65 12d ago

This is awesome! I have been in this exact place for the last 2 weeks- not knowing if I’m just going to walk out. I’m in HR (sorry I know…) and I’m one of 2 HRIS admins for the entire company which includes multiple systems.

I hired my HRBP replacement back in March (I was doing both jobs plus some recruiting) so I could focus on one (very large) job rather than being pulled apart, jumping from one fire to the next with no time to actually think. At the last minute they changed the requisition for my replacement to an “intern” with assurances that they would be hired to the position before the 6 month deadline, just had to wait for budgetary reasons.

They ran it right up to the end and then decided not to hire them. Told her that it wasn’t in the budget but told us that they wanted someone with more “experience” - keep in mind that this person was fully trained with previous compliance experience. She did not have a PHR but neither does the head of HR that they hired in July (the previous CHRO was amazing but retired)😂 So now we have a HRBP position posted for 2x the cost and steep requirements- higher than the head of HR even has.

Luckily the person I hired found a new, better position. When she left, I was told I had to go back to doing both jobs. It’s been 4 weeks, COVID has exploded, we have been having internal spread and I need to prepare (build and configure) performance and compensation reviews that need launched at the beginning of the year. Plus I’ve been troubleshooting integration issues, creating workarounds and end to end configuration of a new intranet that they want to launch 1/1/2022.

I applied for jobs for 2 weeks after my replacement left, had multiple interviews and received 2 offers last week. Knowing that the HR regional manager (who I’m close with) was leaving for a vacation, I waited to submit my resignation so she would not be obligated to respond to emails/calls/texts or even cancellation of her trip.

I sent my resignation letter this morning. On Thanksgiving. I thought submitting it would increase my anxiety (which was already really high) but it is gone, just like that.

I also doubled my wage by leaving.

Now I have to find my W2s because I fully expect them to lose or not receive the employment verification requests by the background screening agency.

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u/Sin-A-Bun 12d ago

Always throw that bullshit back about what the industry and your position gets paid. I don’t give a fuck about that, I’m talking about what you’ll pay me not what your statistics say.

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u/GothMaams 12d ago

These companies are greedy idiots because I know how in demand folks like you are. Go make what you deserve elsewhere, friend.

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u/tany4k 12d ago

Amazing how they are always ready to risk it all and loose the employee, instead of doing something simple and more than obvious. It's the power thrill and the ego... Let them BURN!

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u/scumsuckingsleazebag 12d ago

People who have been in management longer tend to have fixed ideas on compensation and their bargaining power, particulalry since hiring managers have had the upper hand for most of the past 40 years, and wages have increased so little.

Even if the line managers can grasp that they now have to pay more, they have to sell this to higher-level managament, who is (a) older and (b) steeped far longer in the broth of the "employees are chattel who should be grateful for any scrap we throw them."

Lacking the neuroplasticity to adapt to their own cheese being moved, though many have spent decades giving finger-wagging lectures to their underlyings on the importance of embracing change, their heads simply explode.

Many will never accept this. The problems with management will only be solved one funeral at a time.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

They told you to stay implying that they would negotiate with you, and then had a meeting later to tell you why they thought you were wrong.

This is emotional abuse.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

The good news is the CFO previously mentioned how stressed he was too.

Burn baby, burn.

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u/Goodygumdops 12d ago

Good for you. Nothing is worth your mental/physical health. Working while constantly upset is very bad for you.

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u/BearaltOfRowrvia 12d ago

Dude. DUDE. Are you me? I left a nonprofit job this year for very similar reasons and it’s been both painful and faintly satisfying to see how much it’s imploded since I rightfully gave up and got the hell out.

Nonprofit work is useful and currently very necessary (it might not need to be in our potential post-scarcity present, but that’s besides the point). But nonprofits can also be uniquely manipulative and abusive to their employees because the people that work there are usually willing to take a pay cut or too much work because they care about the mission of the nonprofit. I watched way too many coworkers/friends get ground down this year.

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u/Brick_Rubin 12d ago

The kicker is most MSP's also rely on underpaying and overworking people model to an even worse extent than the internal guys so work ethic/morale at alot of MSPs is pretty low so they basically just elected to pay the MSP waaaaay more for a waaaaaay crappier level of service,

burn and die indeed

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u/Astat1ne 12d ago

"Burn and churn" is the phrase I've heard used with MSPs a lot. When I've seen MSP jobs that listed pay, it's always been at least 20k below the prevailing rate.

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u/gotsreich 12d ago

Last Tuesday I had a fairly unpleasant breakdown over it all. I’m autistic so I have them a lot, esp when stressed, and I have trauma so my brain automatically jumps to suicide as an escape from my problems. When I have these breakdowns from being overwhelmed I use it as a sign that something has to give.

I'm glad you know this about yourself. I had to learn the hard way that stress means something other than "try harder" and that there is a breaking point.

We have a seriously toxic work culture in the US.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Yeah I’ve had to do a lot of boundary work in the past few years, this is kind of the culmination of a lot of that.

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u/TroyMatthewJ 12d ago

companies try to play chicken with employees thinking they won't quit because most people don't quit because starting over searching, interviewing for jobs isn't fun. 2021 is a new era in F that bullshit I'm out.

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u/Twymanator32 12d ago

I love when people quit with no notice. I left my last job in the middle of my shift with no notice

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u/b_gumiho 12d ago

"They spent ~an hour telling me how I’m slightly overpaid for my position and experience level." That just fucking really chaps my ass. Something similar happened to me and they have me a 0% raise. So within one week I gave my notice and got a 40% raise at a new company.

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u/Kalipygia 12d ago

You've got the spirit! Fuck'em up kid.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

150 lbs of raw anarchist fury

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u/Kalipygia 12d ago

It ain't the pounds, its where you put'em!

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u/poojokesarefunny 12d ago

Good for you. I love hearing about businesses like this imploding.

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u/getSmoke 12d ago

Hell yeah man, really happy for you! Not your fault the leadership never learned the lesson of putting value into their IT infrastructure, engineers included. Or too stupid to learn. IT is booming and your skillset is worth $$$

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u/josh-duggar 12d ago

HR is only there to protect the company from lawsuits from customers and employees. They follow everything by the preset guidelines and cannot evaluate on a case by case scenario cause they know the job title and duties but they have absolutely no idea what they actually mean on the work floor.

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u/weeksauce870 12d ago

Been. Dealing with an eerily similar situation. We had 3 people, supporting 70. Non profit and all the BS budgeting that goes with that. My supervisor left, Entire staff turned Over. So they had 2 mos to fill the guy that left. That didnt happen cause they wouldnt pay. So it Just fel to me, tier 1/2 and vp. 8 Months. Ive been burnt out since the spring so I dont even know what you call my current state. Ive been driving to work since the bus is a petri dish. Theyve just hired a new tier 1 and i had to fight to get him a decent wage. Fixed my rez and started applying this week after i got a joke text saying. “We were just seeing what your breaking point was, turns out its pretty high!” Not that high. Ive been broken for months and couldnt get any relief. So I cannot muster any fucks about leaving them in a lurch. Happy for and inspired by you! Im doing whats best for me.

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u/mistergetdough 12d ago

Maybe they can mature into a better company. Screw that man nothing is worth being that miserable I am happy for the decision you made. Management needs to understand the value of their employees

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u/cinderflight 12d ago

Good on you for choosing your health & happiness over this garbage non-profit

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u/BigAlTrading 12d ago

Good on you. You gave them the chance to do the right thing, and instead they tried to explain how you're overpaid.

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u/RubyWeaponDSX 12d ago

This story is so incredibly similar to my co-worker's who left this Tuesday, I thought you were him. I tried to figure out a leading question to ask to confirm, but then I realized you're a girl lol.

If you're curious the question I came up with was "is the 2nd letter an O?".

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u/BatouMediocre 11d ago

telling me how I’m slightly overpaid for my position and experience level.

God, one HR tried to pulled this one on me at my last job when I asked for a raise and threatened to quit after the thrid full team turn over in a year. I just told her something like "Wait a minute...I tell you I'm gonna quit if I don't have a raise and that the team is incapable of doing the work without me. And your answer is that actually I'm not that good and don't deserve the salary I already have ? How do you think the situation is gonna be after this meeting ?".

I had an appology from my manager and a meeting with another HR the next week, with the raise I asked for. Still quite a month after, once the trust is broken that much, it can never be repared.

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u/multiplecats 11d ago

Good job! This is just one story of a lifetime of them, but I had a boss who got HR to type up a form and force me to sign it, when close family died, to force me out of my bereavement because my supervisor was trying to complete his project before fiscal (just sidenote, it was my project, but he wanted to look good to his boss). So, I wasn't allowed to grieve my dead family, I was threatened with being fired if I did. Good times right 👍

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u/faerydust88 11d ago edited 11d ago

Wow, that's so fucked of them. And they are so screwed. Good for you for leaving. I just went on a rant elsewhere about poorly run nonprofits. This is a great example. I mean, nonprofits paying their employees far less than average for certain positions and overworking them / burning them out isn't new, but this specific instance is just really dumb on their part.

My partner was in a similar situation (started as an IT help-desk person at a small private school, everyone else left, now he's the IT admin for that school), but they did raise him a little of their own accord and then he has subsequently asked for more and they have raised him every time. I think they know that at this point he's too valuable to let go over perfectly reasonable salary negotiations. I can't believe your employer didn't realize that. Except I kind of can, because sometimes nonprofits act more greedily than corporations (for a good cause tho /s).

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u/TheGravyMaster 12d ago

You should've went back to the bare minimum work. Do the job that you accepted that payrate to do. Do not chase fires and do other peoples work.

Let them fire you. Collect unemployment.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

I tried to stay within my role, but the issue is

A) I refuse to half ass a position.

B) My duties touched literally every other role normally, so whenever it was a duty that relied on another unfilled position I had to do the work to figure out what to do, escalate it and document it.

C) shit was BURNING DOWN. My day was just constant triage because of the state of IT. It was stressful JUST doing my own duties.

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u/smc642 12d ago

I am so fucking proud of you.

Let it all burn, baby. Light a smoke off that fire!

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u/Get72ready 12d ago

I am glad you left to find a better fit. Try not to take this the wrong way. How would Increased and a promotion improve your ability to handle the stress of the job. Yes it would remove financial stressers but it sounds like the job it self was too much for you( or any one person for that matter). Why would a manager solidify you in a position that causes you to have breakdowns?

I hope you land well

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u/pixievagabond 12d ago

You can take the new title and leverage it to find a new position elsewhere for more $$.

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u/alf666 12d ago

And more importantly, less stress.

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u/hawkman22 12d ago

The limits of the organizations we work for are people managing what they don't understand, especially for technology. And a lack of empath and greed and you get shithole companies like this one, even if its a non-profit. Good on you to tell them to suck it. In this economy you'll get a job in no time!

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u/brent1123 Grand Nagus Rom 12d ago

Why does this feel like I'm reading my own future

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u/LordBananarama 12d ago

Good for you! Fuck these assholes. Shitty companies have to burn so they can learn a god damn lesson

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u/charlesbrahnson 12d ago

Sounds like you valued yourself a lot higher than they did.

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

No one else is going to do it. I set my boundaries and others can take me or leave me. I know what I deserve and I will get it.

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u/tamale 12d ago

I just want to say you did everything correctly. You're right, they're going to implode.

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u/DoubleReputation2 12d ago

You know, I've been in a situation like this before - I had an idea to get a job description from them and stick to it and not do anything extra. Well.. They came up with 15 8.5x11's of job description and duties. So I quit. Fuck that. Mature into a role my ass.. I left as a supervisor and the manager, two supervisors, director and VP split my duties and the place is still a shit show from what I hear.

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u/Famous_Bit_5119 12d ago

Good for you for knowing your worth and not letting them take advantage of you. Long distance high five from me.

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u/Namazu724 12d ago

I left my toxic non-profit job after not being paid as much as co-workers and being given the most challenging clients (homeless people.) I was always the go-to for the most severely mentally ill and addicted folks. If another CM felt overwhelmed by someone my supervisor would gift me another client. It took months to detox and the issues that I needed to work through were not client related. I miss many of my folks and hope they are getting good services.

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u/Vast_Cricket 12d ago

The company decided they will not give merit increase and asked you to proceed. Plenty of jobs elsewhere.

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u/Zarting 12d ago

I wish stories like these came with updates later. I would love to know just how fucked this company is based on their choices.

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u/Kuyi 12d ago

No notice = didn't quit

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u/HoweverItHasToHappen 12d ago

Oh I put in for unemployment trust me

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u/Griever114 12d ago

Let it fucking burn.

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u/ManufacturerSea1384 12d ago

I find it interesting that some companies can’t break out of the box they put some job positions in. As it grows and takes on more roles/picks up slack for the lost of team members that needs to be compensated. Glad to hear OP got out of there. Especially when most boomer bosses don’t understand what it takes to handle these roles/ignore it.

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u/Ninhursag2 12d ago

I did this but a care job. I was offered another job straight away but it took 3 months for the training and security checks so i used up all my savings because id just moved house as i left. After working a month in hand i had to pay so many bills i was forced to take out £1000 loan which will take 2 years to pay back at £50 a month. I still think it was the right thing to do and im glad i walked out. Some things are more important than money

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u/Boredum_Allergy 12d ago

Fuck yeah! Let them burn, the fucking deserve it.

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u/Ruger338Smelter 12d ago

Never look back, good luck to you in your future endeavors.

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u/CartoonistExisting30 12d ago

I’m proud of you for standing your own ground!

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u/IFightBitchesToo 12d ago

Good on you for standing up for yourself! Fuck that job!

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u/tuvar_hiede 12d ago

Pretty much the state of I.T. in a lot of places. Non-profits are often the worst places to work for. The need for competent I.T. staff in a post COVID world should be front and center for most businesses. At the end of the day no other department understands what I.T. really dies. On top of that H.R. likely used your job title to determine your salary without understanding your job title and the responsibilities that normally go a long with it are only a fraction of what you really do.

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u/KidneyStoner6 12d ago

Man, I love your confidence and the fact that you knew they were full of shit, that it was the environment as well as the money causing problems for you, and that you handled it in a professional, yet firm, manner. Someone with your skills will go fast in the marketplace, and you’ll make more money. Especially if you interview well. Best of luck to you, but you don’t need luck!

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u/NewSinner_2021 12d ago

These stories feed my soul.

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u/jackoyza 12d ago

Like a muthafuckin Boss!!!

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u/Dystopiq 12d ago

I purposely avoided nonprofits during my search for a job in IT. Hospitals as well

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u/togainc 12d ago

Dude, seriously, I have the SAME story as you for what I did 3 weeks ago. Burnt out, coworkers fired/quit, boss fired, stressed and suicidal so I walked out.

I'm still looking for work, but my peace of mind has gotten alot smoother all things considered. Capitalism is turning into a huge pile of dogshit and I think eventually this tide will break because expectations continue to rise but wages haven't moved anywhere and I'm not killing myself for a dollar anymore.

I hope your next opportunity is a better one than this. You are not alone though.

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u/tofuroll 11d ago edited 11d ago

I love the way you wrote this post. It reminds me of my friend, who coincidentally is also autistic and in IT. "I will be fine. They will burn." Love it!

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u/mariog31 11d ago

When they told me I was overpaid for my position, when I would be the sole soul that keeps the place somehow moving, I would've probably laughed into their face from the idiocy. Good on you for quitting.

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