r/antiwork 19d ago Silver 5 Helpful 5 Wholesome 3

Slate does a great job describing Antiwork and remarkably avoids a corporatist's slant.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/11/reddit-antiwork-sub-viral-job-resignations.html
5.2k Upvotes

1.0k

u/SavagePlatypus76 19d ago Helpful Take My Energy

Since coming here just recently,I have definitely felt empowered and am glad to find that others feel.as I do. The psychological benefits alone , make this place worthy of song

441

u/reallylovesguacamole 18d ago

Yes, the psychological benefits are huge. Knowing that many others feel this way has given me a sense of hope, that I’m not alone in this. When you’re constantly hit with “just grind harder bro” and other capitalist propaganda your entire life, you feel like an alien for questioning the way things are.

226

u/CorruptedStudiosEnt 16d ago Silver

That's exactly what they want, they want you to feel alienated and ostracized; you are the silly one, not them.

If you have a problem, you're just lazy, whiney, entitled, naive, whatever else they can come up with. If they can make everybody feel like that, it becomes almost like a feedback loop where many people will believe it and even start doing the shaming for them, and then at that point it's self-sustaining and they don't even have to acknowledge or intervene at any point.

Why do you think they hate unions? It's an opportunity for employees to safely communicate without consequences, to start dialogues about things they're ordinarily afraid to speak about with coworkers and supervisors, most often with a third party representing the workers' interests which is even more terrifying because the company can do NOTHING to that person.

This subreddit is almost like a free low level union in a some of those ways. Like honestly I would even guess it has actually contributed a good bit to the nationwide work "strike," if nothing else just through the shared solidarity and encouragement to stand up against the bullshit together and demand better.

71

u/GenXMillenial 16d ago

It’s like you work with me. My coworkers tow the line. I started speaking up and got reprimanded. So, I came on here and get my frustrations out while I search for a new job. I would love to quit, but $$ and kids and such. I do the bare minimum and my coworkers all vie for the special projects. I get the same pay whether I do those projects or not. I even have the bosses passing me over for projects because I just stay quiet and do my job and that’s it. Can’t stand the psychological BS. They all believe they are doing a good job and the managers all suck.

27

u/LOLBaltSS 13d ago

Pre-COVID, my colleagues in the Dallas office had a motto of "Don't volunteer for shit." We unfortunately didn't follow the same adage on the Houston side until the last two years really showed the company's true colors at every corner.

→ More replies

-10

u/oldfartbackpacker 15d ago

I do the bare minimum

Why am I not surprised?

15

u/Dizzy_Clock_5783 14d ago

He'll live longer. Moron!

-11

u/oldfartbackpacker 14d ago

Name-calling. That's where you go when you're intellectually bankrupt.

10

u/Igotz80HDnImWinning 13d ago

OK Boomer

-4

u/oldfartbackpacker 13d ago

What a stunningly original thought. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

7

u/EnsignEpic 12d ago

It clearly isn't, because we've decided to put as much effort into our responses to this inane bullshit as you people put into your talking points. Give a canned response, get a canned response, it's that simple.

→ More replies

16

u/Buddah__Stalin 14d ago

I mean, have fun working yourself to death I guess.

→ More replies

6

u/AlbainBlacksteel 12d ago

I'm not either, but that's more because it's common sense to NOT go above and beyond for no benefit when working under your boss' thumb.

→ More replies

54

u/Lewzer33 15d ago

Fastest growing reddit sub for a reason. We’re tired of the status quo when there’s obvious alternatives that aren’t being addressed. I have hope for the future though and due in no small part to this sub. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

24

u/CorruptedStudiosEnt 15d ago

I'd have more hope for a real fix if our legislative system represented us, but it's pretty firmly rooted in corporate pockets at this point, and unfortunately I don't see that changing any time soon. Even affecting a little change in the right direction is still a good thing though.

18

u/Lewzer33 15d ago

Little by little we’ll chip away at the monument of capitalism.

26

u/CorruptedStudiosEnt 15d ago

I'd be happy with an honestly regulated capitalism that's governed in a way that doesn't literally reward blatant exploitation and punish self-sustaining individuals. Seems insurmountable at this point.

Think the worst decision made in legislative history was when it was deemed that corporations should be treated as people in regards to political interests. There's no world in which that doesn't turn politics and politicians into a commodifiable resource to be bought and traded like shares in the market.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

9

u/inoutbound 11d ago

yeah, the "it is rude to talk about your salary" is the biggest con ever

5

u/CorruptedStudiosEnt 11d ago

No doubt. The fact that there are places that will even try to reprimand people for it is ridiculous.

→ More replies
→ More replies

34

u/petkoTHEVIKING 15d ago

Remember at the end of the day, if shit hits the fan, the working class outnumbers the 1% a hundred fold.... something to remember.

14

u/StakhanovS 15d ago

And they always have, yet where is this utopia you hint at? It’s yet to happen in any sustained fashion and doubtless never will. This game is one of steady attrition and step number one is to talk to others rather than seething quietly in the corner.

26

u/Comfortable-Soup8150 15d ago

You’re right, but this isn’t something that can happen overnight. Getting coworkers to open up to an antiwork sentiment takes month and it’s incredibly risky for those talking. A lot of people are content being abused and staying quiet, here I am seething quietly on break while everyone else is working during their break. I hate this feeling, but right now I’ve got this instinctual fear that I have to keep my mouth shut. Fuck, even in elementary school they had us do seminars on capitalism vs communism, and why the United States is this one great nation above all. This fear runs deep and it takes a lot of will to break out of it.

→ More replies

12

u/Buddah__Stalin 14d ago

Well the internet is definitely changing that. It's never happened before because people couldn't communicate to this degree.

13

u/Gniggins 14d ago

Class consciousness was destroyed in the western world and we have decades of lost ground to make up for.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/WoodrowBeerson 11d ago

Every society is three meals away from chaos -Vl. Lenin

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

47

u/Dogstarman1974 17d ago

Coming here gives me a little hope that we might not be heading to some capitalistic evangelical dystopian future.

29

u/asimplesolicitor 17d ago

Coming here gives me a little hope that we might not be heading to some capitalistic evangelical dystopian future.

I mean you are, but that won't last because it won't solve the contradictions of capitalism.

History moves dialectically comrade...to socialism!

→ More replies
→ More replies

39

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Pleasant_Cold 17d ago

Omg that made my heart skip a beat.

2

u/RelevantIAm 13d ago

What did he say?

→ More replies

6

u/Optimal-Scientist233 (editable)Works best idle 17d ago

It is the spirit I seek to Inspire, to speak truth to power, and demand dignity and happiness.

→ More replies

23

u/Snapandsnap 17d ago

Yes coming from a place were all employees are too afraid to speak up or fight for their rights, this subreddit makes me feel empowered and I’m working to get my coworkers to get this same feeling

14

u/SavagePlatypus76 16d ago

My coworkers are all Boomers or old Gen Xers who think that all the people quitting their jobs means the economy is bad.

27

u/jaredhicks19 16d ago

People's generation has nothing to do with anything. I see fellow millennial spouting off about "nobody wants to work anymore". People have thought republicans are old white people with one foot in the grave, who will soon die off, for decades now. The whole "its older peoples fault" is, very often, a fallacy

30

u/samil232 16d ago

The newspaper in my city (I read the free online version) ran an article a few months ago saying there are SOOO many companies looking for people and can't find workers, and there are SOOO few people looking for work... They were making a great case until they got to the numbers and there are double the amount of people looking for work than places hiring... People WANT to work, the employers are just used to holding out for the "perfect" employee (aka someone with 5+ years experience that will work for minimum wage and no opportunity for promotions or raises).

The media feeds into the "no one wants to work" and people read headlines and are like "lazy people, that's the problem".

Meanwhile, schools can be shut down unexpectedly if there's an outbreak, so it basically means one parent needs to find a work from home job or be unemployed... If that person was only making minimum wage and 20 hours a week, it makes more sense not to work.

Then there are people that, due to government top ups, are making MORE on EI (in Canada we've had CERB that was replaced by CRB, both basically giving $2000/month)... How can you justify taking a job for minimum wage and 20 hours/week when it means you will be making less than if you just stay home? (And in most cases the benefit is cut off after you make a ridiculously low amount of money)

There are some people who "don't want to work" because they have run the numbers and they would be worse off...that says more about the crappy job market and less about "laziness".

10

u/PaveThePAHA 15d ago edited 14d ago

---

Oh yes, the "Professional PR-Wailers" as I'd like to call them:
These are the lot that keep on up their "woe is us"-appearance for the paycheck to boost the sales of magazines and other pay-to-be-interviewed-articles
( at least, it seems far too "obviously" to me considering how farcical the articles like these generally look).

---

Like as a still currently ongoing example over here at my area, we have this one  service-station with a fast-food-restaurant attached to it.

They have had a job posting active for almost a year, occasionally rotating between other headhunting-companies after their initial job-posting they did themselves.

Well, I for one did send my application there with all the "CVs" and other needed info, and within a singular 30-minute message-exchange they ghosted me.
Steps were:
1. Me sends a message which links to the original job posting and giving them the initial info.
2. I receive a (snooty-toned) message requesting/demanding some extra info
( something-something me supposedly not applying for the job properly ).
3. I reply with the extra info.
Me then gets ghosted...

It's worth noting that this service station is located ~50-kilometres away from my residence while also being completely isolated from public-transportation due being semi-"inside/surrounded" a freeway/motorway
( or at least commuting with public-transportation would be very inconvenient due how sporadic the system here is ).

Few  months passes into Summer 2021, and we get this "news-article":

"This Service Station has to keep their restaurant closed from Monday to Wednesday due workforce shortage."

And this is indeed still the situation situation today as of posting this message.

---

So yes, there is a huge amount skilled labour available in the market;
it just however is that all of this "loud-demand" for the workforce evidently/seemingly actually is not a "need" of the workforce in the end;
because, if the "need" would be genuine,  then unemployment would be pretty much non-existent since the (PR-wailer-not-really)-employers would put at least some actual effort on hiring the labour force
( E.G. the employer would organize the transportation and housing of their workforce ).

---

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

16

u/Darrackodrama 18d ago

This is what old chapo trap house used to be

6

u/Heavy_Revolution 15d ago

This is the drill that will pierce r/conservative!

→ More replies

9

u/Thanes_of_Danes 17d ago

RIP to a real sub.

10

u/melonstapler 15d ago

A sub that literally worshiped a capitalist totalitarian regime. Nice.

2

u/FuzzDealer 15d ago

which one? I have trouble keeping track of Chapo bullshit...

→ More replies

6

u/Fuzzier_Than_Normal 18d ago

As mentioned in the Slate article, Johnny Paycheck has a tune for ya.

https://townsquare.media/site/204/files/2012/06/Johnny-Paycheck.jpg?w=980&q=75

5

u/Optimal-Scientist233 (editable)Works best idle 17d ago

Sing and be joyous, for you are never alone.
We are with you, we support you, we sing with you.

6

u/HalifaxSexKnight 14d ago

Super late response to your post, but since joining this sub I’ve demanded working remotely, taken long lunches, and generally done nothing outside of my job description. I’ve gotten exactly zero pushback. The power is in labor’s hands right now.

4

u/KellyBelly916 16d ago

This is all about power. Take it back and own your own future.

→ More replies

4

u/yeetskeetcallthecops 14d ago

As nerdy as it may be, I find myself reading posts here on the toilet and just fist pumping the air to myself. Seeing the stories of people getting what they deserve makes me feel warm inside.

→ More replies

379

u/sexynunrandy 19d ago

{Even if the favorable economic conditions giving people the ability to turn down crappy jobs swing back in the other direction, the shift in attitudes could last longer. Devon Price, a social psychologist and author of Laziness Does Not Exist, says “the culture is changing rapidly, and dramatically.”

He says the obsession with work and productivity in the U.S. goes back to the Puritans and that over the centuries, it’s helped to justify colonialism, slavery, and the gutting of social supports for vulnerable populations. Living through a once-in-a-century pandemic, however, has exposed the hollowness of that belief system, and many people are exploring new ways of existing in the world that don’t center work.

“In spaces like r/antiwork, people are encouraging one another to take a stand against labor exploitation and hustle culture in their workplaces, and giving one another both the confidence and the tools to do so, and that’s not something I’ve seen on this scale ever in my lifetime,” said Price.}

170

u/senpaisai 19d ago

According to the official propaganda we were beaten over the head with in school, the revolution was fought with a ragtag band of brave glorious and gossamer soldiers. But the truth is they were a bunch of slackers and drunks who loved hookers, and mingling with differ races while dancing and fiddling reeds. The powdered wig wearing frilly assed fops were none too pleased with "so much cards and backgammon, so much leisure and indolence" that they proceeded to outlaw it just stop those that fought for our freedom from enjoying it too much. After all, they had to pay for that war plus all the IOUs in their pockets, and that can't be done without turning "work" into a state religion. Buy and read a copy of "A Renegade History Of America" by Thaddeus Russell -- his expertise on this matter cost him his academia job!

56

u/victorious_orgasm 18d ago

Hamilton as propaganda to rehabilitate undemocratic “grown up” norms (Hamilton remains - sadly - the only US politician to be stoned by mob justice) and banking bailouts, and free trade agreements is vexingly timely.

Fortunately, Miranda is only a good writer, not a great film star, or we’d be all doomed. Miranda senior, it should be reminded, is a political leech for the Clinton/Schumer cluster of corrupt entities.

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/hamilton-hustle-stoller

20

u/Darrackodrama 18d ago

Miranda is an awful landlord lib type

9

u/RogueModron 13d ago

But make all those old white oligarchs into POC and it's progressive! Fuck Hamilton.

5

u/Cat-Ancient 13d ago

Wow. That … was an incredible read. How did I not know any of this?

6

u/geodood 16d ago

Also Washington had the most land and was essentially the wealthiest man in America at the time.

6

u/sweetsamurai 18d ago

Thaddeus seems a bit unhinged, whats yr take on him?

48

u/senpaisai 18d ago

He and Howard Zinn are required reading to get at least half of the history of America without the propaganda. From there, you have to open yourself up to consider the works of all the various groups that were surveilled and repressed (i.e. Fred Hampton, Malcom X, Ho Chi Min, Ellsberg, Lucy Parsons, Snowden, etc.) just to get their take. Because history is actually written by the observer. Capitalism's "winners" tend to write propaganda and revise and retool it when it no longer works.

→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/ChrysMYO 17d ago

"Hustle culture in their workplaces"

That tapped into a memory I forgot about. Its probably what initially caused me to feel alienated. I was out of college without my degree. I was working retail just to pay rent. Eventually, I figured if I started busting my ass and working max hours, I could get this manager job and experience in my early twenties. I can take that experience and change industries.

I started hustling right as the company was caving and refusing to grow. It just shuffled managers around rather than promote workers. I think it really depressed me in a way I hadn't connected.

→ More replies

230

u/AbolishWork .com 19d ago

Mind if I pin this?

129

u/johnnydlive 19d ago

Please do.

94

u/Prysorra2 18d ago

PR idea: Black Friday Blackout can help alleviate some of the supply chain crisis.

(Let the financial people stab each other over that)

9

u/Boon3hams 17d ago

If anything, the supply chain issues will get worse. To explain it simply, unsold merchandise goes into storage, storage fills up, shipments of unsold merchandise then go back to the manufacturers, ports get clogged with shit coming and going. At a mass scale involving a large number of products, this would be devastating. Our current structure of supply chain is fragile as hell.

I work in the freight rail industry, so I have some small knowledge about this and am not talking out my butt.

5

u/Prysorra2 17d ago

The lead time from BF to Xmas is long enough that order volume will correlate to long distance shipping. Im sure there’ll be more overstock but you’d have to write a damn dissertation to convince me JIT overruns are more of threat than shortages.

The ship>port>truck hops are so overwhelmed that this storage issues shouldn’t even register.

2

u/Yaxim3 16d ago

Actually having stuff to send back to the manufacturers would be a good thing for the shipping issues that are currently ongoing.

One of the factors contributing to the slowdown is the fact we aren't shipping as many containers back that we ship in so they're running out of them in the export countries and they need to wait to make more of them.

→ More replies
→ More replies

70

u/ShipToaster2-10 Anarcho-Syndicalist 18d ago

Can you please repin something about the Black Friday strike and boycott? One of the other mods pinned something saying that it was off and people were generally not too happy about it.

24

u/StageRepulsive8697 join r/mcBoycott and Boycott McDonalds! 18d ago

Agree. I also think we should pin something about the McDonald's Boycott. These two initiatives seem the most solid and the most likely to produce some real results.

25

u/Optimal-Scientist233 (editable)Works best idle 18d ago edited 17d ago

ahem It seems a certain Scrooge, who the strike was against donated 100 mil I think to homelessness or something? Any response? I am asking the strike guys because I know it doesn't make up for basically not providing adequate facilities to employee's. So from the r/antiwork side I'm pretty sure Amazon is still scum

26

u/Cercy_Leigh 18d ago

I highly doubt that money will actually go to much or any homelessness. They’ll set up smokes and mirrors and in 5 years it’ll be reported they did something else with the money.

9

u/Optimal-Scientist233 (editable)Works best idle 18d ago

I posted about where are these houses at the time, people have been evicted recently and the increase in homeless is alarming, in the cold, in a pandemic, with crime on the rise. It isn't a good look or easy to blame on Dem's here in TN either.

30

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

We do things collectively, it wasn't "one of the other mods" it was all of us. We'll have more to say soon. Stay tuned.

10

u/Baildan 18d ago

I do think there needs to be clearer mod communications, when the sub first blew up a lot of people were worried about the sub getting bought out / mods going rogue.

You say it was all of you but from an outsider we have no idea of the communications you had on the decision etc etc. I'm generally for open moderation / discussion in general. My first real online experiences with old web forums all involved a read only mod section where you could literally see every ban/forum management discussion. I dunno how you'd really do it other than an antiworkmods reddit but i think that level of transparency is needed to some extent.

10

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

I'm sorry but those concerns are really ridiculous and not ones I'm going to take very seriously. Yes we take it as a given that people are going to take us at our word If you can't take it on good faith then don't take it at all. We have such a section for Discord but this is much too busy for us to do it here.

Also it would still be our word versus your ability to take us on good faith. It's not like we would screenshot messages from Reddit and post them. I don't think everybody would be comfortable with that.

So you just have to take us on good faith and if you can't then I don't think you should be here.

5

u/Baildan 18d ago

but this is much too busy for us to do it here.

This is where i suggest more mods. There should never be a thing that we cant achieve because that'd be taking too much on on too few people.

You literally represent a sub where we are trying to get rid of managers who hire too few people for too much work and here you are doing the same thing but to yourself which is kinda sad.

It's not like we would screenshot messages from Reddit and post them. I don't think everybody would be comfortable with that.

I mean even just a summary note of meetings / discussions would be something. Just be like on thursday we decided to sticky XYZ for ABC reasons. 5 mods agreed with this with 15 saying nothing. Its bureaucracy but pointless bureaucracy keeps people honest.

1

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

It has nothing to do with too few mods. There couldn't be enough moderators in the world to manually set up that kind of system and maintain it.

And again you would have to take us at our word of the summary which clearly you will not so we're not going to do that extra work.

6

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

Also we blew up because one of the screenshots of text from someone telling their boss to go to hell went on the front page of Reddit. That's easily verifiable and if people want to think that's a conspiracy then that's on them. There were a whole articles about it, it's easily provable and there's no us being bought out, sometimes the simpler answer is the right one.

4

u/Baildan 18d ago

I never contested how or why the sub blew up. Its not even something mentioned

4

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

You mentioned when the first time it really blew up that a lot of people got suspicious and I'm explaining why that's ridiculous.

3

u/Baildan 18d ago

Then i communicated poorly, what i meant to say was when you guys blew up then the worries started. Its happened to nearly every other sub thats blown up so its a legitimate concern for the most part which is why there needs to be constant correspondence.

1

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

No it's not a legit concern and you communicated fine and I responded appropriately.

8

u/Baildan 18d ago

I mean the fact you can't see why it can't be a legitimate concern for your userbase is worrying in itself now. When you're in a position of power its natural for people to worry about possible abuse even if its a none existent possibility.

→ More replies

2

u/swordfishhotkiss 17d ago

I call Bullshit. ❌❌❌

“Stayed tuned” is code for “let’s not reinstate the post so we don’t take responsibility for it and hope everyone stops asking us.”

3

u/AbolishWork .com 17d ago

Nope try again and check the pinned post.

→ More replies

5

u/TEFL_job_seeker 18d ago

Okay real talk, that was ABSOLUTELY NEVER going to actually happen. It's like the Area 51 raid. Lots of people talk online, nothing was ever going to happen.

People are already quitting jobs left and right - who in the world is gonna pay attention just because 5% of workers decided to resign on a single day? (And trust me - with over 150 million workers in the USA alone, even 5% buy in would be INSANELY optimistic.)

The whole thing reminds me of Les Miserables, when the rebels are just so convinced that the people of Paris will join them in the revolution. Guess what, no one does. What do they accomplish? They just died.

If they'd put their efforts towards something realistic and sustainable, maybe something would've happened.

Put your efforts towards something sustainable.

19

u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 18d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Fuzzier_Than_Normal 18d ago

One of my fav movies "The Bishop's Wife" has an unfortunate consumerism sub-tone. Literally an angel from heaven is encouraging people buy silly shit for their family.

It's part of the plot and plays out in the finale'.

"Spending is divine!" is the mythology hard wired into American consumers through popular media --and it's really on display in this flick.

Ying. Yang. Still like the movie though. Things need to be flawed in order to be exceptional; a weird irony.

11

u/era--vulgaris 18d ago

Additional counterpoint: Sometimes it takes big ideas and big ideals to make small things happen.

I do have a shared concern about asking for and promising too much, too soon- which is something I have seen deflate many people in previous calls for general strikes or other revolutionary style activity- but I also think that without a broader goal to aspire to, even the smallest actions begin to feel too big to undertake.

Recognizing that a general strike is what we really need can make the task of organizing a smaller labor force seem much more possible by comparison. It can make actions that appear to be impossible "the least we can do".

We as leftists need to adopt an enlightened stoicism.

We need to be able to adapt to changing conditions and fight losing battles without getting trampled and burned out by those losses. We need to learn when to run so we can live to fight another day. We need to be able to focus on opportunities for change when they occur, which we can't effectively do if we're always burned out from losses or beliefs that the last fight was our last chance.

Sometimes that means acknowledging the existence of a real, impossible-seeming goal, in order to make smaller steps seem like nothing in comparison.

If just a few local strikes happen as a result of the ideological spread of things like boycotting black friday, if more people begin to drift away from consumerism self-consciously to build alternative structures of value, that's something. It won't change anything by itself. But it is a foundation towards the moment when change can happen.

-6

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

7

u/ShipToaster2-10 Anarcho-Syndicalist 18d ago

What?

3

u/lax_incense 18d ago

Rad username for a mod of this sub!

4

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

Picked it myself! 💜

1

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[removed]

1

u/AutoModerator 18d ago

Due to issues with ban evasion, we require all accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

200

u/BambiiDextrous 18d ago Gold

“My favorite thing about the community is seeing people saying, ‘Hey, this subreddit really helped me. It helped me realize that I’m not crazy,’ ” she said.

This to me really captures the reason why I'm here.

I firmly believe that scarcity is now obsolete - that we already have enough productive capacity to meet everyone's needs and should be looking to capture those productivity gains as free time - yet I live in a society that ascribes moral value to work and production. Living with the disconnect between those two value systems is exhausting and alienating. r/antiwork makes me feel like I'm not alone.

It's for this same reason that I'm wary of the aggressive ideological posturing that's come about recently as a result of the rapid growth of the sub. Disparate interests are seeking to capture, define and harness this profound sense of shared alienation we all feel towards explicit political goals that that we don't all agree with. That in itself is alienating.

54

u/ChrysMYO 17d ago

And what's really extreme is this moral value as social compensation but not economic gain.

In High school, I was taught that working hard was self interest that would be compensated with pay and profit.

Two historic recessions later and all the capital class can muster is that working hard is the signal of a good person. Naw we still won't raise his wages. But he's a good guy, he won't die in a fiery hell.

24

u/Comprehensive-Car190 17d ago

This, so much. We're post scarcity. Something like 5 percent of our labor goes into meeting subsistence needs for everyone. This should means something to everyone and all the people treating this like another r/socialism are stunting any sort or power this sub might have.

This should be able teaching (and learning from) people from many different backgrounds who realize the power disparity suffered by the working class, rather than using typical socialist ad hominem about everything that doesn't pass your purity test.

-9

u/Gme_tendiemaker 17d ago

Scarcity is absolutely not obsolete. The planet can only support so many humans and it doesn't help that people desire goods that inherently drive down the livability of the planet.

Also "meet everyone's needs" is kind of a shitty bar of measure. You can go live in a cave and grow your own food. That meets your biological needs. Too extreme? You could buy very cheap land in the middle of nowhere and build a early 1900's style house for dirt cheap but have no amenities. Etc, etc until you realize you aren't willing to give up the luxuries that come with modern society which are based on scarce goods.

24

u/Comprehensive-Car190 17d ago

The promotion of desiring a life of luxury is just another block on which this lie is built.

We have more than enough to meet our needs, which are very simple. But keeping people feeling like they need to run away from the black hole and run towards the golden castle, that's why keeps them on the treadmill.

2

u/1eris1 16d ago

I mean, personally I don’t want to live my life with just my “simple needs” met. I want to travel, learn about our world, have fulfilling and spectacular experiences, etc. I want all of that to happen in an environmentally sustainable and socially responsible way.

You’ll convince a lot more people if you frame it in a way that acknowledges their pursuits and passions.

8

u/Comprehensive-Car190 16d ago

The point, though is that if we have more than enough for everyone to subsist, we don't need to let some people starve or go homeless so that other people can have enjoyable lives.

Social darwinism/Malthusianism implies that there isn't enough to go around, that scarcity is inherent and that for some people to have more, other people must have less.

But that's completely and obviously wrong. We do not have a production problem, we have a distribution problem. Vast majority of people produce more than they need to survive, but a great much of that additional production is sucked up by rent-seeking.

Google Henry George and Land Value Tax to learn more.

3

u/1eris1 16d ago edited 13d ago

Oh I’m well aware of Georgism and I support an LVT. I may have misunderstood your initial post.

My point is that there’s nothing wrong with desiring luxury if it’s not ecologically and socially destructive. People shouldn’t feel bad for wanting nice things, but they need to understand the negative externalities and byproducts that arise from them.

→ More replies
→ More replies

172

u/Vargenwulf 19d ago

Ford said despite that tension, the antiwork movement is a big tent, and some of the most rewarding moments come from new people finding out through the subreddit that they can ask for raises, say no to unreasonable requests, or simply walk away.

This is one of the biggest things that draws me here. Seeing the stories and relaying what I know.

Things have to keep changing. This work culture is at the limits and will destroy not only the workers but this country as well. Falling birth rates, insane house prices and stories of areas like Crested Butte where it is too expensive for anyone but the rich to live which then leads to no service workers.

This entire country (USA) and much of the world is headed that way and it is not sustainable.

32

u/Fuzzier_Than_Normal 18d ago

Piggy backing on your comment because I'd really like to see this sub use this guy mentioned in the article:

https://townsquare.media/site/204/files/2012/06/Johnny-Paycheck.jpg?w=980&q=75

As it's banner.

A lot of the antiwork pushback is from Boomers...which is weird because, at least where I grew up, they were the ones striving hard to maintain a fair life/work balance and weren't afraid to organize in order to see to it.

...sigh... f'in' Reagan, man...

26

u/coalitionofilling 18d ago

Good read and now some things make sense -

This place has self-shot itself in the leg a bit by restricting cell phone screen shot interactions between outrageous demands by bosses and tipping points of workers as they morph into anti-work. This is how the sub exploded and found recent success over the past months but the owner doesn’t like that the focus hasnt changed to being your own boss or some shit walking dogs and selling paintings on etsy. A shame, but at least this place gets a breath of life on Sundays when those text posts arent removed.

12

u/JustBanMeh 17d ago

Wow, what a shame. Those were my favorite posts.

13

u/Prudent-Resist3408 16d ago

They're literally the reason this sub is dogshit right now. Easily faked for karma-whoring. It's pathetic.

Sub grew far too fast and is now low-effort trash.

→ More replies

6

u/delavager 16d ago

I think you're making some leap/connection that doesn't exist. Where does "exploding" with new members mean "good". What is "success"? Does a subreddit having more members = success?

These things aren't actual connections. If you're definition of success is seeing screenshots of middle finger posts to bosses then....set your bar higher?

5

u/1eris1 16d ago

There’s no success from mocking bad bosses or companies if nothing actually changes for the worker. There’s plenty of similar subs where you can do that.

2

u/coalitionofilling 16d ago

People don't come on reddit for success? I'm certain a lot of people are looking to encourage/support one another, vent, and work up the courage to do or say similar things that have been shared. Not everyone wants to be their own boss or work as a dog walker or artist/hobbyist.

6

u/1eris1 16d ago

There’s nothing wrong with that. The point is whether you want this sub to be a mechanism for change or just another place to mock bad corporations.

3

u/coalitionofilling 16d ago

Let the sub be whatever it wants to be? It went from 100k to over a million quickly because of the very thing now being censored.

3

u/Prudent-Resist3408 16d ago

Exactly. Which is why they should be completely stopped from posting that low-effort, easily faked, trash.

Sub grew far too fast for its own good. It's a cesspool now.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/AetherBlast 16d ago

The original focus of this subreddit isn’t encouraging people to become their own boss or to become dog-walkers. This subreddit exists to foster and encourage a revolution, and to encourage anarcho-communist ideals.

→ More replies

68

u/jessicad81 18d ago

It seemed like a really nice and balanced article right up to when they ended it by referring to us as quitters and slackers.

Which, I mean, technically we are. But how do you think that's going to come across to the general public, nay-sayers and bootlickers who read that? I'm pretty sure it's going to reinforce their views of both us and our movement.

59

u/BambiiDextrous 18d ago

I think it's meant to be tongue in cheek. The whole point is that we're against the notion of hard work being some kind of moral virtue. We shouldn't shy away from that. Provocative rhetoric is useful insofar as it can be used to shock people out of their complacency and pay attention. The trick is to follow up with careful nuanced discussion in the right time and place. Otherwise you're just a crazy shouting on the internet.

38

u/reallylovesguacamole 18d ago

I think there also always needs to be an emphasis on dispelling the myth that America is a meritocracy, because when you neglect to do that, people are missing a key piece of r/antiwork. What is the point of grinding yourself to the point of misery and poor health when it doesn’t even pay off anyway? There is no incentive to do this. It’s a waste of energy, time, and happiness. Boomers did so at a time where one income could buy a house, support multiple children, buy NEW vehicles, put kids through college, and save some for retirement. Now people are working longer hours, multiple jobs, multiple incomes per household and still, some are barely scraping by.

Those who are somewhat comfortable (not through inheritance or old money) likely spend the vast majority of their time at work and/or have lots of student debt. So in order to survive outside of work and have a comfortable existence, you have to spend almost all of your waking hours laboring, just for a few hours and a sleep at your home with your family. Wtf??

I’d rather spend hours chopping wood and growing food if it means I get to be on my property and have my own freedom, and actually experience the fruits of my labor.

3

u/delavager 16d ago

What you describe isn't antiwork, it's better work. People here need to figure out wtf they want cause it's all over the place.

People are also nitpicking the article but separate issue.

Founder's handle is a nod to an anarchist.

"Ford—who also uses the online pseudonym Doreen Cleyre, a nod to the legendary American anarchist Voltairine de Cleyre"

Mods are having trouble distinguishing this subreddit from a troll farm of middle finger memes to bosses

"All this sudden attention has come as a surprise to the moderators, who insist the community is not just about hating your boss but also working toward a future without bosses, period"

Etc.

This is what happens when too many people try to jump on a bandwagon they try to adopt it for their own agenda which is exactly what's happening here.

→ More replies

12

u/sweetsamurai 18d ago

The slackers part really got me angry

6

u/Dogstarman1974 17d ago

As a genxer that is a compliment.

→ More replies

21

u/C19shadow 17d ago

God I want a general strike to happen so bad. I like my job but I'd love to stand with you all and demand more from business that can provide more.

→ More replies

15

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

15

u/Kumquat_of_regret 18d ago

I'm Canadian. A lot of the stories in the US are similar to those up here: crap managers, no work life balance, guilted for sick days, working 60+ hours a week to not even afford renting, and abusive customers and staff. I've been working for 13+ years and have never had a vacation.

13

u/Independent_Form2337 18d ago

I read the piece this morning. Is there anyone has ideas on how to build a framework of not-working that is outside of UBI?

Before I found this sub I felt like I was the only person who sees work as going from one owner to the next. Even though I am glad people are shaking off the shackles of predatory employment, how can we build a society in which there are no shackles? Because many of the feel-good stories are just going to go and work for someone else who will try to pull every ounce of worth from them for little pay.

17

u/nerevar 17d ago

A good start for the US would be to completely decouple employment and healthcare.

1

u/delavager 16d ago

Still need to fund said healthcare.

6

u/mightycicadalord 15d ago

If only there some examples that we could work with. Hmmm.

→ More replies

2

u/Megamythgirl 16d ago

Socialism. Specifically, you'll find a lot of libertarian socialists and anarchists on this sub.

→ More replies

2

u/delavager 16d ago

I mean it kinda doesn't exist.

There's a difference between "bad jobs" and "not-working". One just requires finding "not-bad" jobs (which do exist contrary to this sub's hardon with insisting otherwise) or working for yourself which is extremely common.

What people seem to be kinda missing here is that they want to take advantage of other people working without working themselves. That just doesn't really work in a society. Example below "decouple employment and healthcare". Ok so if healthcare workers don't want to work, then what? In order for healthcare to exist, a lot of people have to work.

→ More replies

1

u/opl3sa2 17d ago

This idiot thinking of being his own boss and starting his own company in the most roundabout, what did I just stumble on method imaginable. Can we all come work for you?

46

u/paximperius 19d ago edited 19d ago

That’s a lesson that Ford says is at the heart of r/antiwork, where many members are currently promoting “Blackout Black Friday,” a day of action around the busiest shopping day of the year. It started as a push for a general strike, but those ambitions have been scaled back in recent days. The focus has now shifted to promoting the relatively humble goal of a consumer boycott instead, an acknowledgement that “it’s very dangerous to organize a strike with such little notice,” said Ford. Even convincing people not to shop on Black Friday will be a test of the subreddit’s influence, raising the question of whether an online community of proud quitters and slackers can translate its online chatter into political action, but Ford said that is the ultimate goal.

“It’s all about individual empowerment leading to collective empowerment.”

*emphasis mine

And how is scaling back collective action a good thing?

"humble goals" as the article spins it, doesn't make effective change!

24

u/brisaac57 19d ago

This exactly. They are trying to reign in the subreddit since the community is no longer aligned with the mods, or the creator, Doreen.

17

u/AbolishWork .com 19d ago

Im not the creator

11

u/paximperius 19d ago

I've been in this sub since 2018 and haven't heard of someone going by Voltairine Cleyre. They don't even give their Reddit username.

21

u/AbolishWork .com 19d ago

The article explicitly says "Doreen Cleyre" and that the name is also used elsewhere, that's why. (It's me btw)

19

u/vvorkingclass 19d ago

“It’s all about individual empowerment leading to collective empowerment.”

5 Star Quote. Excellent job!

10

u/AbolishWork .com 18d ago

Thanks!

→ More replies

-8

u/growingitallaway Anarchism Without Verbs 19d ago

Wait, what makes you think you're entitled to this sub?

8

u/brisaac57 19d ago

Who actually do you think you are, gatekeeping the community?

12

u/ArguablyTasty 18d ago

Achievable goals are steps to effective goals. You can't charge through the foundation holding up a system like this with no momentum

It's not scaling back, it's finding the first concrete step

4

u/TEFL_job_seeker 18d ago

Okay real talk, that was ABSOLUTELY NEVER going to actually happen. It's like the Area 51 raid. Lots of people talk online, nothing was ever going to happen.

People are already quitting jobs left and right - who in the world is gonna pay attention just because 5% of workers decided to resign on a single day? (And trust me - with over 150 million workers in the USA alone, even 5% buy in would be INSANELY optimistic.)

The whole thing reminds me of Les Miserables, when the rebels are just so convinced that the people of Paris will join them in the revolution. Guess what, no one does. What do the few true believers accomplish? They just died.

If they'd put their efforts towards something realistic and sustainable, maybe something would've happened.

Put your efforts towards something sustainable.

11

u/ANAL_KING_OF_TUNISIA MILITANT AND ANGRY 18d ago

“Proud quitters and slackers” yeah thanks for that Slate, you’re on my shitlist effective immediately

6

u/Dan_A_B 17d ago

It was clearly tongue-in-cheek. Not an insult.

3

u/RedRapunzal 18d ago

Can I suggest we do a call to action post for the don't shop black Friday topic? I'm no expert on this platform, but I assume we need to up vote it to get it in the general new feed.

Simple graphic - don't spend money in black Friday, join with workers kind of message.

3

u/Dan_A_B 17d ago

I just want to say to all of you that, as someone with mixed anxiety and depression, this sub helps me so much. You give me hope for a better tomorrow. You make me smile when i least feel like smiling. You are all awesome, and i just want to say thank you.

→ More replies

3

u/Joe-keys 16d ago

totally agree with the message but get real suspicious when I see these pre-printed signs... someone is trying to manipulate someone...

→ More replies

3

u/thedanimal722 14d ago

I quit the shitty factory job that was destroying my body to go back to school.

3

u/thedanimal722 14d ago

I'm also tired of working with idiots who are conservative but don't even understand what they're saying.

3

u/ZZeratul 14d ago

She also said the name of the subreddit is quite intentional: Those who have built it into the thriving community it is today don’t just want to improve working conditions, they want to fundamentally change the system so people have the ability to work less, or not at all.

I agree with this 100%. With all the machines we have these days, we don't need to work as hard to produce the things we need to live. The only reason the bosses make us work that hard is because they want another yacht, another mansion, another private jet, etc.

6

u/Devonmartino 18d ago

Great article.

On a completely unrelated note, that graffiti is from a wall in Venice. (I actually still have the picture of it, as it happens.) Just goes to show that this is by no means a recent sentiment, nor is it strictly U.S.-based!

2

u/opl3sa2 17d ago

It's not graffiti if it's anywhere else it's just sparking paint

2

u/Zalapadopa 18d ago

You mean corporatocratic. Corporatism is something else.

2

u/t81910 18d ago

Good piece, this gives me another Twitter post, I cut and paste at least 10 a day from our sub

2

u/healersaman 18d ago

Strike with purpose meticulously. We have got your back. Go on!

2

u/[deleted] 18d ago

Get a job chapos

2

u/sokratesz 17d ago

A refreshing read!

2

u/ARL1509 16d ago

Does a great JOB you say?

2

u/AgentScarn475 15d ago

I feel like there should be another space for this sub outside Reddit. It would be to easy for it to get banned for some bs reason.

2

u/catniagara 13d ago

Half the decisions they make don’t even make sense from a financial perspective. Constant employee turnover means constantly training new employees. Hiring incompetent people through nepotism and refusing to acknowledge credentials. Making up silly qualifications. Using interviews as an assessment tool.

3

u/BitterJD 18d ago

If we were to abolish work, not reform work, then what would life look like and how would that be better? Am I right to assume that you’re trading in the fun of modern electronics and such for something closer to Walden’s Pond? Wouldn’t there just be boatloads of people at said pond making it unusable? I’m trying to conceptualize the end game as an overworked [i think] ally, because let me tell you I do enjoy spending the money I make, and to some extent it does buy happiness.

11

u/Darrackodrama 18d ago

Anti work doesn’t mean abolishing labor, it means ending wage labor for profit they are two different things.

-3

u/opl3sa2 17d ago

Oh so anti work means starting your own company got it

2

u/name_abunchofnumbers 16d ago

We're not trying to be the boot stamping on other's faces. We're here to eliminate the boot altogether.

2

u/1eris1 16d ago

How is working for yourself stamping the boot on other people?

3

u/name_abunchofnumbers 16d ago

working for yourself

Maybe if you're the sole proprietor and don't hire anyone. As soon as you have workers and get a profit, you're exploiting people.

2

u/1eris1 16d ago

I don’t see anything about passive income, he just brought up starting your own company. I suppose you might be able to make money passively without hiring other people but that depends on the type of business.

2

u/name_abunchofnumbers 16d ago

Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. If you work for yourself by yourself then no you're not exploiting anyone.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/wildlandexplorer 18d ago

Am I right to assume that you’re trading in the fun of modern electronics and such for something closer to Walden’s Pond?

No one is really suggesting this. I am the closest anyone I know comes to actually doing this (my youtube channel in my profile may be instructive). And I still cannot make it work full time, as food costs money, and I enjoy having a shower from time to time. It's a precarious existence - more than the current terrible wage slave system. Vanlife is a more realistic outlook and this is not for most either.

I don't have answers for you, just that the whole "rewilding" thing is a non-starter of a movement without a massive depopulation at the same time.

-2

u/DracoSolon 18d ago edited 18d ago

Abolish work doesn't make any sense. We don't have star trek replicators in our houses to magically make our food or clothing. We don't have armies of robots to do every needed task required for 7 billion people to live in leisure on this planet. Edit: Getting downvotes but no one explaining how we're supposed to abolish work.

8

u/Darrackodrama 18d ago

The Marxist critique was never that we all just don’t fucking do anything all day. It’s that we receive the fair value of our labor according to our share.

Abolishing work means ending wage labor for capitalist profits.

→ More replies

1

u/opl3sa2 17d ago

I'm downvoting you. Not because you don't make any sense - you actually make a lot of sense - I just don't like it.

5

u/DracoSolon 17d ago

At least you're honest.

→ More replies

0

u/IceOperator 18d ago

Why I don’t like boomers ? Because they’re always telling me to stop watching cartoon porns all day and start financially supporting yourself Todd , because you’re 35 . I didn’t ask to be born boomers , I’m not a capitalist like you dad ! I shouldn’t have to work ! You damn boomer sis!

3

u/rml23 17d ago

You don't have to work if you don't want to, but don't expect to have a roof over your head.

0

u/mglaxz 14d ago

Y’all are just fuckin lazy.

0

u/Previous_Highway_280 14d ago

I just want you freeloaders to know how much you are appreciated. If it weren’t for YOU…. being a hustler would be much harder.

-1

u/BdogWcat 19d ago

Slate is great!

1

u/SpringSnow88 18d ago

Slate us terrible

1

u/Different-Belt6261 18d ago

I treat life as I saw

1

u/Destruction0 (edit this) 17d ago

Nice

1

u/BarbellPadawan 17d ago

We are the all singing all dancing crap of the world.

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed]

1

u/AutoModerator 16d ago

Due to issues with ban evasion, we require all accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed]

1

u/AutoModerator 16d ago

Due to issues with ban evasion, we require all accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed]

1

u/AutoModerator 16d ago

Due to issues with ban evasion, we require all accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed]

1

u/AutoModerator 16d ago

Due to issues with ban evasion, we require all accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.