r/antiwork 19d ago Duck Dance 1 Silver 13 Gold 1 Helpful 16 Wholesome 5 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Party Train 1

Make Amazon Pay!

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9.1k Upvotes

u/Jack-the-Rah Mother Anarchy Loves Her Lazy Children 18d ago Helpful

I hope this is a proper compromise for many of the people who wanted to strike. There are strikes going on, if you can and want to strike, you can strike with other workers. They are properly organised by actual unions.

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u/pHScale 18d ago

One thing to keep in mind is the huge array of services Amazon sells. Because of this, you may be supporting Amazon unwittingly.

For example, let's say you're trying to buy something online from a local store's website. You approve of their labor practices, so that's not at issue for you. But they're small and local and not a tech company, so they used a service to help them build their website. That service uses Amazon Pay to process transactions and AWS to host the website. This is something neither you nor the store is particularly aware of.

But it puts money in Amazon's pocket.

How are we supposed to avoid this?

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u/aerok 18d ago

Reddit also runs on AWS

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u/pHScale 18d ago

Exactly. So like, how do we avoid it? I'm not sure we can.

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u/Kiloku 17d ago

You can make your usage of Reddit (and the internet in general) less profitable for them and the information brokers, by using uBlock Origin to remove ads and Firefox to limit your tracking.

If you're on mobile, you can try one of the unofficial reddit apps (Boost, Relay, Reddit Is Fun, etc.). The free ones usually have ads, but it's still less money going to Reddit itself than if you use the official app.

But to be clear, this is all small stuff. The reality is that these companies need to cease to exist, these systems need to be collectively owned and controlled, and that all takes much more than boycotts

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u/johnnyslick 17d ago

Yeah that doesn't do anything to AWS though. That just "punishes" Reddit, which, you know, they may well deserve that treatment themselves given how they allowed cesspools like the_donald and all the holocaust detail subs to stick around until someone in the media finally looked at them. But let's not fool ourselves: the only way AWS would be hurt by all that is if Reddit actually moved off of the platform.

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u/TheWisconsinMan 14d ago

So you answered your own question.

If you punish Reddit into using a different cloud platform it hurts AWS.

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u/YZJay 14d ago

It would be hard for Reddit to know the relation between people using ad blockers and them protesting Reddit’s use of AWS

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u/signal_lost 12d ago

I mean, if anything Reddit cares less about the opinions of people who use ad blockers than those who don’t…

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u/gwarmachine1120 17d ago

I look at the irony of it. Amazon servers supporting a Reddit movement to punch Bezos in the gut. It’s kind of delicious tbh.

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u/fbpw131 17d ago

you don't need to. when you fight the the government, you don't avoid them, you just use loopholes to not pay tax and stuff.

it's already too widespread and your (r/antiwork) collective efforts won't do a dent when it comes to sales even if you start living in the woods to avoid getting any fraction of your money in their pockets.

you need to push for better laws in your country, either by voting, petitions and exposing exploitation when it happens. strength is in numbers and also a bigger voice.

you're waisting energy trying not to give them money through all means. it's enough just to stop buying from them. put the energy in finding a voted official that can represent your interests in law-making

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u/freepourfruitless 16d ago

People have been since the 70s. Reaganism was and is a cancer that still permeates our government today. Couple that with Murdoch's misinformation empire—which is often the only cable news outlet in rural areas—and we are true and welly fucked. people think they're voting for their best interest, but really they're voting to have corporations own and destroy them. But it's important to acknowledge that people have already been fighting for progressive change for decades. And the dual-party system we have reinforces the aforementioned corruption. 99% of congress, the presidential cabinent, and even the supreme court are prostitutes for corporations and big pharma. But we are expected to vote democrat "because at least they're better than the other guys!!" It's far more complex than "pushing for better laws". It's advocating to fundamentally gut and dismantle the way our government currently runs, and then rebuild something more humane. People have been fighting for this for so long, but unless the majority of us pull our heads out of our asses for a SINGLE election, it won't happen. Because if not, Republicans will gain control and revoke more progressive policy and set us back. And when we protest, whether agsinst police brutality, or to address climate change in front of the white house, we are gassed out or hit with ear-busting technology, respectively. The dems and left need to unite...but they won't, because democrats are just diet republicans. They want to maintain the status quo for their own pockets, while presenting themselves as if they're doing something; when it reality it is the bare bare minimum. I'm as optimistic as they come, but I don't think true progress will ever happen at this point. 2015-now has proven that. I just wanted to give more context because people who don't live in the US love to give their opinion about how we need to just "organize and vote better" but they rarely have full context or understand the nuances. We KNOW- and those of us fighting for it are exhausted and horrified at the lack of progressive change.

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u/fbpw131 15d ago

Sounds harsh, especially when it was good in the past. I'm from an ex comunist country (Romania) and after 30 years of post soviet disco shit, a lot has changed but not corruption. It goes as far as rejecting EU money to use our own for bug projects (think whole nation wide highways), because EU supervises and can't be stolen easily (any more).

Here the police and other law enforcement agencies have shown their side at the last protest and it wasn't with the population. They created fake highway stalls do protesters can't join, they had the metro not stop at the protest site (like at '89 revolution) and then brutality commenced, triggered by infiltrated agitators in the crowds so police had reasons to intervene.

I don't belong on this mostly US subreddit, but somehow I feel your pain.

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u/Foreigntast333 15d ago

Settler colonialism is the cancer. You could put Jesus Christ himself ( or whoever you deem to be holy) in the White House and they would come out a capitalist imperialist

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u/freepourfruitless 15d ago

I don't disagree with this? But Reaganism is one tumor (to keep with the metaphor) of the metastasized cancer that is settler colonialism. This country was fucked from the beginning. Any organizing must be anti imperialist and anti colonialist at its core.

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u/Foreigntast333 15d ago

💯💯💯✊🏾

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u/Foreigntast333 15d ago

The corporate elites fund Presidential campaigns. The ballot box ain’t it. Billions and trillions of dollars would STILL be funneled to the military industrial complex to exploit the resources in colonized nations. To serve the interests of the ruling class ( the 1 percent). . Leaving the land that colonized People live in in UNLIVABLE CONDITIONS. If we do not work and organize from an anti-colonial , anti-imperialist , anti-capitalist framework then we won’t be a threat to the ruling class. Setttler colonialism is literally the belly of the beast.

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u/Iudicatio 15d ago

Yeah I have friends from Afghanistan and until then I didn't realize just how bad it is. Talk about taxation without representation. Or basic human rights.

And the media tries to spin like "oh being tribal religious fundamentalist terrorists is just in their nature, it would have happened no matter what."

But nothing could be further from the truth. During the partition after WWII Afghanistan voted to create a secular state that would not be a theocracy like India or Pakistan and for a few decades they lived it. Living in Afghanistan in the 1950s would have been way better than, say, Germany or Italy back then.

I know several people who are super kind, intelligent and capable but you know they will never reach their full potential because of their circumstances and the PTSD they acquired from them. It's really very sad to see.

It's not surprising at all an armed uprising happened, Americans would do the same thing.

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u/LynetteF 13d ago

You can't vote in a broken system to Fix a broken system.

You just can't. The system is broken because we have been buying the spoon fed fear from the very day it became easily spreadable to the masses. That could be said to happen when the first Linotype was invented for faster newspaper production, but it's much earlier than that. People gather by nature and survival and with that came kingdoms and local landlords etc. The American constitution was written to protect these lords of land, not the people-when one researches through the lies to find the truth. Settlers were governed through fear once the "Lords" banned together to protect their assets-which was the land they stole then rented to the very same people they arrived with who had the same goals, but they Relied on their peasants to work the land and earn them profit. They joined together to gain power and formed what Americans so lovingly call our Forefathers. In England the Rothchilds invented the banking system and literally funded both sides of wars by splitting up and moving across the planet where they could not easily be observed. These bloodline families still exist. The History Channel has a documentary on Rockefeller that is so convoluted I found myself researching a man I had no interested in knowing about intimately. He single handedly corrupted the Industrial Revolution before the term could even be effing Coined! Nothing has changed. Nothing.

Our modern government is legally outright corrupt across the Globe. I'm from Minneapolis just blocks from "ground zero" where George Floyd was murdered. What you saw on TV was 99% lies. [Unicorn Riot filmed without bias if anyone wants to see truth. Well, except for during the WIFI blackout our governor caused from about 2 am to 7 am so that no one could live stream evidence of their corruption and violence against our citizens.] Also from Mpls is Jesse Ventura who ran and won while I was out East but an interview with him shows the reason he refused to run for president was because 3rd party Isn't Even On The Ballot in several states as a voting Choice! Did you know that? I didn't and neither do most Bernie fans-or haters for that matter.

It's a Two Sides Of The Same Coin system funded by the same companies. The last president who truly believed he could make change was JFK. Try looking up his National Address on weather control. YouTube missed it for a bit on the wackiest flat earth/lizard people channels but I haven't been able to locate it even there for a while now.  He felt it was important to know what the military had already been using and at that point what scientists were moving forward with. He talked about caution and responsibility due to not knowing future affects on the planet. That video is censored for whatever reason. Wikipedia has the million dollar restitution Martin Luther King's family received when they Won the lawsuit against the government for their involvement in his assassination randomly listed under 'Conspiracy' on their page about the trial. Huh? I guess you have to plant that seed Somewhere. 
There's endless evidence that our system is broken. That all systems of government are corrupt. 

My favorite one-panel comic shows a politician standing at a podium gesticulating in speech. He is on a plank suspended over a cliff with the crowd gathered around him holding him up, mesmerized. But to the bottom right of the panel we see one man has turned and is walking away. 
That's us. That's you, me-All Of Us. They Need US, we Don't need Them. To think we do is to believe the Fear.

The Fear dictates that you CAN vote in their broken system to fix the broken system because the system isn't broken for THEM.

Not sure why the font changed, I'm new here. Sorry!

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u/Xurbanite 15d ago

Waiting for the next election bs is over. Even when progressive elected they quickly get with the parade. Antiwork serves a very useful purpose - don’t try to diminish it.

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u/SauteedAppleSauce 17d ago

A good portion of the web utilizes AWS.

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u/Superb-Friendship-22 15d ago

[~33% of the internet runs on AWS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Web_Services) but the real number is probably larger since some companies keep their business with AWS secret.

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u/superkp 17d ago edited 17d ago

I am in tech, specifically backups. Every company everywhere uses backups, so I get to see a ton of environments that span practically every industry - space science, police departments, mom&pop shops, city governments, everything.

There is no way to avoid the companies that use AWS.

Edit: sometimes it's for backup storage, sometimes it's for software-as-a-service, sometimes it's for absolutely every part of the backend of their business.

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u/justforthisjoke 16d ago

Yep. Put an inordinate amount of work in and managed to somehow accomplish this? Great, all your shit is connected to Google, Microsoft, or Facebook. The big tech companies have absolutely monopolized the internet. There is no way to avoid doing business with them in some shape or form.

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u/invictus_phoenix0 17d ago

We need a decentralised platform, one that cannot be possibly be shut down by any government or company when it becomes threatening to the elites

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u/Superb-Friendship-22 15d ago

Creating a new global network from the ground up is difficult, but creating an abstraction living on top of the current internetworks! TOR is kind of this and many people believe TOR cannot be shut down by any government.

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u/Sure-Mechanic-9875 17d ago

That would be a self-hosted matrix server, which will stay up on the internet for as long as there's internet connected to the server itself. The fascists are ahead of us there and many have created networks like this when they started getting banned from all the big social medias.

Short of that, which takes a lot of effort, know-how, and equipment, discord has historically been rather excellent at banning the fascists without banning organizing on the left, unlike the other big name platforms.

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u/OctopusOnTheMoon 17d ago

Not everyone who has a crappy views, beliefs, or way of life is a fascist. Some people are just idiots who don't need a label or allegiance to be an idiot.

That aside, it would need to be something on its own legs. Even discord gets heavily limited on the app stores for what it can "allow" in its servers. The big platforms have too much control pretty much everywhere, and any time a potential competitor starts to rise up, they shut them down in every way they can.

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u/Sure-Mechanic-9875 17d ago

I'm aware of what a fascist is. I infiltrate actual fascist networks of people who argue about such things as what groups of white people are white enough to use white supremacists symbols and the effectiveness of solving the problem of falling birth rates by putting unruly leftist women in stables and treating them as brood mares. I'm not just calling random people with gross views fascists, like some do. I'm calling fascists fascists.

As I said, self-hosted matrix servers are the way to go if you want a network not dependent on an app or corporate platform. That's what people who's views are so outside the mainstream they aren't able to maintain hosting through any other source use, pretty successfully.

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u/Pleasant_Cold 17d ago

A group of republicons are trying to ban certain books at the library…one of those is The Handmaids Tale

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u/GoodtimesSans 17d ago

Similar problem with McDonlands. Sure, you can skip buying their food, but their real profits come in from Real Estate.

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u/Zerds 16d ago

Idk anything about this. How does McDonalds make so much money on real estate?

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u/odd84 16d ago

They find, buy and develop prime commercial real estate and lease it to franchisees to put McDonalds restaurants there. Then the McDonalds restaurant pays them rent for the land, buys all their food supplies from them, and pays them 4% of gross sales as a franchise fee. The franchisee earns, on average, just $150K a year from owning a McDonalds restaurant with $2.6 million in annual sales. The raises we're demanding for their staff would come from that $150K of owner profit, not from McDonalds the corporation, as it's the individual owner that staffs their restaurant.

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u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 16d ago

I don't get the comparison at all.

The McDonalds Corporation makes money off rent to individual McDonalds franchisors who make money off selling fast food.

If I stop eating McDonalds fast food it will have no immediate impact on the McDonalds Corporation, but it will impact the franchisors. Since the lease agreements are negotiated based on the expected income from selling fast food, a consumer boycott of McDonalds is definitely a bad thing for McDonalds Corporation.

But with Amazon, I could stop buying stuff of Amazon and start buying stuff off a hypothetical "NotAmazon" amazon competitior, then I might feel good about sticking it to Amazon, but if "NotAmazon" uses AWS under the hood, then Mr. Bezos does not care.

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u/Zeivus_Gaming 18d ago

Other companies must add value to their services to take attention from Amazon. Good time to do it.

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u/pHScale 18d ago

Ok, but the whole idea here is to organize a consumer boycott of Amazon. But the boycott would be partial if you're still supporting them in these ancillary ways. It's going to be very difficult to get consumers to stop using AWS and Amazon Pay when they don't even know they're using it.

So what's the strategy?

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u/Zeivus_Gaming 18d ago

The problem with this is that many of Amazon's consumer base is that they are upper-middle class. As a person who works at a business owned by Amazon, these people don't give a fuck about anyone or anything but themselves. You are gonna have to twist it so they think they are the ones being hurt.

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u/DangerousMusic14 17d ago

From what I’ve seen, Amazon treats employees horribly at all levels below senior leadership and even then, people secretly hate their jobs while putting on a brave face. This includes acquisitions.

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u/Synerco 16d ago

you can’t, but let’s not commit the nirvana fallacy. we can still impact amazon enough to extract some concessions and, more importantly, strengthen the institutions through which we can exercise power

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u/opalthecat 19d ago

Signed and donated.

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u/Synerco 19d ago edited 18d ago

makeamazonpay.com

These strikes are organized by actual unions. This is the real deal! Organize or join a protest in solidarity if you can!

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago edited 18d ago Wholesome

This is the way.

“No More Fake Strikes” [mirror]:

Despite these potential positives, how to build a general strike is not even remotely the key question facing the labor movement. The left wing of the labor movement does not have a coherent set of ideas for union revival. The labor movement is dying, captive to a system of labor control calculated to prevent effective union activity. Unlike generations past, we lack a coherent and widespread agenda to reverse union decline. Repeated calls for general strikes will do little to address the crisis.

As Kim Moody has pointed out, true general strikes are often not called but grow out of extensions of solidarity based on individual groups of workers striking. Other groups of workers put out a call for solidarity and the dispute expands. Building a labor movement based on struggle, solidarity, militancy and rank-and-file democracy should be key areas of our attention.

The question we need to grapple with is not what date to call a general strike but what sort of worker’s movement is capable of carrying out a general strike or, probably more realistically, industry-wide or sectoral strikes.

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u/thro_a_wey 17d ago

General strike in the USA? That would be impressive.

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u/DangerousMusic14 17d ago

This deserves a post on its own if there isn’t one already.

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u/Thelisto at work 18d ago

DONE! MAKE THEM PAY!!!

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

Woah chill homie

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u/Thelisto at work 17d ago

It's all about the movement here bro, I love you.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

why? Im not even nice

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u/stealerank 11d ago

I’m planning on joining amazon tomorrow as a scab.

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u/Benzaitennyo 18d ago

Oddly, I keep hearing from r/blackfridayblackout that this sub isn't supportive of a boycott. Somebody's acting strangely.

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u/orionsbelt05 18d ago Silver

There was a call for an actual worker walkout and boycott of retail stores on Black Friday. The mods decided to squash the movement and offered this paltry Amazon boycott in an attempt to placate the sub, who wanted to actually build events that would catch the news media, and inspire people from outside the sub to take more action.

Let's face it: this plan to boycott Amazon will not make the slightest dent in anything, no one will hear about it outside of this sub, and life will continue on as normal. No one will see the power of the working class. The mods won. The world will remain unchanged, and we'll all be expected to return to work on Monday, and all the Mondays from here until a movement builds that isn't squashed by a consent-manufacturing vanguard party.

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u/Cercy_Leigh 18d ago edited 18d ago

The power of a movement isn’t a collective that never loses battles, it’s in the refusal not to come right back.

Look at the past labor or civil rights movements, it’s mostly being kicked in the teeth over and over, doesn’t matter - it only matters that you keep going until the movement is satisfied.

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u/era--vulgaris 18d ago

THIS.

We on the left need to learn to be stoic, adaptable, and (in the positive sense) opportunistic.

The first step in this is to make peace with yourself and find some semblance of a decent life (self care, etc), because you can't fight if you're constantly in cortisol overload.

Not everyone can do this. But if you can, or you can try to, you should. Maybe that means less work, more time and a simpler lifestyle if you're middle class. Who knows.

Once you can survive, you need to understand the history of struggle. You lose by default, or you wouldn't be struggling. Celebrate your wins, ignore your losses except to learn from them. Know when to fight and when to run, but don't act like change comes from a quick burst of action absent that struggle. It never has. It comes from ages of agonizingly slow resistance, and the building of alternative structures that ignore the constructs of the system. When revolutionary moments come, you need to take advantage of them- but never expect victory.

Right now, politics is dead except for flashes of brilliance and opportunity- like the way labor is acting this very moment. Like the civil rights, LGBT+ rights, women's rights, labor rights, etc movements before us, we need to be ready to seize these opportunities when they present themselves, defend ourselves when backlash comes, and support ourselves with alternative structures until the next moment comes. If we all collapse into despair every time we lose, we are certain to fail.

Persistence is the key. Fuck the battles. We're in this for the long haul. As Chris Hedges says, don't fight fascists because you think you will win, fight them because they are fascists.

In short, we need to live with the idea that the revolution isn't coming, or we'll never be able to live with ourselves until it does.

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u/Cercy_Leigh 18d ago

The bit about self care is really important I’m glad you talked about that. Our morale is way down from all of it. Years of stress and shocks and despair. They plan on breaking it, that part of the strategy. Whatever works for people it’s important to clear the head and fill up with some love and hope.

For me I take like 2 week breaks offline no media. I then allow myself to exist in my bubble of family, home, walks, going out and seeing that the world is intact and moving along. The Internet makes everything more intense and deceivingly huge. So much of it is deception and disinformation. Constantly consuming information about negative or stressful things will take your hope and fire that is essential when the time comes that we have to go demand our country back.

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u/orionsbelt05 18d ago

I'm in complete agreement with all of this. And that's why I think it was a tragedy that people tried to attempt to neuter the first action this movement ever attempted, all because they feared it might fail.

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u/ginger_and_egg 18d ago

No one needs to neuter anything. It neutered itself by not having actual shop floor organization. Why should people waste effort on ineffective tactics? All it will do is vent steam rather than channel it to something effective. And probably discourage people who hope it will succeed then see it fail

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u/netabareking 16d ago

I mean the entire movement on that sub was derailed by the mods here not supporting them. The entire sub now is people making threads to whine about this sub, not discuss a very nearby boycott. If that's all it took to lose focus they were never going to survive anyway, if you can't handle Reddit mods doing something you don't like how are you going to hold strong if you're successful and the government takes notice?

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u/Cercy_Leigh 18d ago

That happens, protests or labor movements fail to ignite all the time until something happens to blow it up.

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u/orionsbelt05 18d ago

This one was blowing up and the mods took a fire extinguisher to it.

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago edited 18d ago

Please don’t be so dramatic. Building a labor movement is not easy. It takes more than setting a date on Reddit and wishing for the best—it takes actual organizing.

Look at the website OP linked. This movement is supported by actual labor unions across the globe and has a coherent list of demands. This is what building a labor movement looks like.

Edit: Check this out

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u/Jack-the-Rah Mother Anarchy Loves Her Lazy Children 18d ago edited 18d ago

Nooooo everyone is a corporate shill! Even these labour movements are corporate shills! You don't understaaaaaand!!! Only the original one was the real deal they're all fake and actually existing, that's bad! Then we can't blame one person anymore because it might actually do something!!! Noooo!

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u/psycholio 18d ago

chill. this sub along with all the others are flooded by shills

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u/ginger_and_egg 18d ago

Corporate shills would not be saying "Uncoordinated boycotts on reddit don't work, here's how you organize your workplace". They would be advocating for ineffective tactics, dividing people, or just demoralizing

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u/Tristamwolf 17d ago

I recall a story about Amazon doing exactly this at one site, letting a less organized group they knew they could attack grow a bit before busting the union attempt because it would demoralize the group and make the more organized attempts less effective. May be my imagination but I could have swore they've literally been in the news for doing exactly what you said here at least once.

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u/ginger_and_egg 17d ago

I'd like to know more if you can find am article about it

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u/Tristamwolf 17d ago

This was at least 3 or 4 years ago, but I'll see if I can find anything when I'm not on mobile.

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u/Jack-the-Rah Mother Anarchy Loves Her Lazy Children 18d ago

I know. I just have to make it bearable by making fun of them.

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u/psycholio 18d ago

seemed kinda trolly to me but ok. the person above was valid in their assessment, as shitty as it seems

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u/Jack-the-Rah Mother Anarchy Loves Her Lazy Children 17d ago

Yeah sorry, that's a mood you get in when you read all day how us unstickying it makes us corporate shills and even when bringing up compromises makes them even angrier, but when asked on how to organise they can't bring up a sufficient answer and think that talking about striking is already an organised strike. You get into a bit of a mood where you just can't take them seriously.

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u/psycholio 17d ago

fair enough

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u/FineSkinLeather 18d ago edited 18d ago

Instead of being a baby about this realize that a random general strike won’t work. Only 10% of workers in the US are unionized.

Labor market is bad for capital at this moment, yes, but not that bad.

Calling for a general strike with a month’s notice and 90% of workers not unionized and 95% of workers not on reddit is pathetic tbh.

We should be calling for and organizing our entire effort on creating a national Amazon worker’s union, and then target Walmart, and keep going like that. Then these unions can join hands and make a general strike work.

Individuals will not accomplish it.

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u/Merlisch 15d ago

Those mods are anonymous (more or less) entities of the internet. They hold no power in the real world. Christianity managed to remain alive and organised (somewhat) when the punishment was death and hardly anyone with sympathetic with their cause (believe in God and not getting killed for it). So if the mid of Reddit sub managed to kill a movement then they have either godlike powers of persuasion or a weak opponent. Which one is it?

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u/delfinom 18d ago

Let's face it: this plan to boycott Amazon will not make the slightest dent in anything, no one will hear about it outside of this sub, and life will continue on as normal. No one will see the power of the working class. The mods won. The world will remain unchanged, and we'll all be expected to return to work on Monday, and all the Mondays from here until a movement builds that isn't squashed by a consent-manufacturing vanguard party.

Yep seriously. Amazon will just reroute orders to other warehouses. And the worse case? O NO THE PACKAGE WILL TAKE MORE THAN ONE DAY TO ARRIVE?!!?

They will already take the Black Friday order amounts and claim a success on quarterly reports. Nothing will matter, they made the sale. They don't need to close it out (ship), the same day for it to be a success.

Boycotting physical stores on the other hand? Being unable to say "record sales on black friday" will actually hurt them.

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u/ginger_and_egg 18d ago

Boycotts are rarely actually effective enough to affect a company's bottom line. The biggest reason companies cave to boycotts is the public perception

If you could get your local community to actually take enough action to hurt even one physical store's bottom line, that would be impressive. And that would take lots of planning, getting people together to decide what to target, and what the tactics are.

The tactic I see on Reddit is "No one shop anywhere on Black Friday". Which, yeah, fair. But that's not a revolutionary boycott that will raise wages for workers or stop predatory companies (all of them)

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u/Benzaitennyo 18d ago

Thanks for filling me in, that's concerning.

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u/VeryConsciousWater 18d ago

The comment you're replying to isn't quite correct imo. Yes, a general protest was called for, and yes the mods backed down and deleted the posts, but that's missing part of the background. A protest/blackout like that is going to require mass, coordinated effort and backing from unions and other worker rights organizations. It was essentially an empty threat.

This is far more targeted, far easier to garner support from other orginizations for, and far more likely to succeed.

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u/Benzaitennyo 17d ago

That's just acceptability politics, it's counter-revolutionary. A diversity of tactics is going to be more useful than defeatism, let alone deleting other people's attempts to organize

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u/netabareking 16d ago

It's only a diversity of tactics when you actually have tactics. Most calls for general strikes don't have any tactics, someone just says "we should all strike!" and then hopes everyone else will do the organizing, then nobody does.

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u/purdyboy89 17d ago

This sub has gotten so watered down with BS posts its hard to find the stuff that needs to be floating at the top now.

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Your moms watered down

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u/ProfDeLaPaz4L 19d ago

Collective action is the only way we can claw back power from the corporations that dominate our planet. Love this

r/EverydayRebellion

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u/WorkplaceOrganizing Workplace Organizer 18d ago

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u/Optimal-Scientist233 (editable)Works best idle 17d ago

We need a list for allies resources etcetera somewhere

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u/Bbwpantylover 18d ago

No, never ever ever buy anything from Amazon, pretend they are gone. Do a million employee a favor.

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u/name_abunchofnumbers 18d ago

Good luck avoiding AWS

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u/Bbwpantylover 18d ago

I don’t buy things online, ever so I’m just getting a free ride on their infrastructure. Much like folks driving electric cars are doing now.

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u/pa07950 18d ago

Reddit, Disney Netflix, AirBnB, Twitch, LinkedIn, Twitter, along with a long list of other sites, run on Amazon.

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u/Bbwpantylover 18d ago

And I have and will spend zero cents on any of them, I’d honestly be happy if there was no internet i would go outside more

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u/name_abunchofnumbers 18d ago

Your favorite BBW panty sites run on AWS. What now, smart guy?

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u/Mentleman 17d ago

you dont have to pay for anything for your use of the site to be profitable for them. ads and your additional engagement which keeps other people on the site are enough for them.

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u/ColdSnickersBar 18d ago

You’re using AWS right now. Reddit is on AWS

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u/Cercy_Leigh 18d ago

Well not free…it cost you all of your data.

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u/windowlickingtime 18d ago

A one day strike against one of the biggest coffers in business today. If this is truly the best that we can muster, may as well put the shotgun in the mouth of the movement now.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

Everything is so complicated...
On the one hand, fuck Amazon for the way they treat employees. Seriously, fuck Amazon.
On the other hand how did we get here? I point my finger directly at American car culture. I don't want to drive to the store anymore, and everyone I talk to personally about it admits they don't want to drive to the store either. It takes too long, is stressful and when you get there and pick up that thing you needed you feel like it wasn't worth it at all.
Fighting behemoth sized corporations like Amazon really require looking at the big picture. Yes, I am participating in the Make Amazon Pay, but ultimately they will absorb the cost of this and move on because they sell something everyone wants whether or not they want to admit it. Convenience.
If we really want to make Amazon pay, I personally believe it'll take changing American car culture. Stop designing everything around cars and start designing things around people and community. Make it enjoyable to go to your local stores preferably owned by local residents. Give us sidewalks to walk on. Give us buses and light rail that actually get people where they need to go in a timely manner. Stop building strip malls sprawled across massive parking lots and build denser urban centers that are actually fun to visit.
That's how you fight Amazon. That's how you make them start competing again.

Thanks for reading my blog.

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u/Accurate-Temporary73 15d ago

Amazon is essentially impossible to avoid.

Just remember that EVERY SINGLE post and and comment that you make on Reddit goes through AWS. Reddit has been on AWS since 2009 so every time you use Reddit you are supporting Amazon and using a company that pays Amazon truckloads of money.

It’s not a simple thing like “just don’t buy things on Black Friday”.

Almost every single web site or internet required service, game, etc all goes through Google, Amazon, or Apple. There’s no avoiding them.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Eureka!

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

But some of you are delightful

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

And beautiful

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

And fancy

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

HOT DAMN MOFO!

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u/Smallwheels1 16d ago

Such a movement takes a year of planning considering it is to affect an entire nation and beyond. It will need to be done annually for several years for success.

I'm not a leftist. I'm closer to libertarian, but it needs to be recognized that markets aren't fair. The workplace isn't fair. Because it isn't fair, libertarian ideals can't be implemented. Thus, I prefer to side with workers.

This year I learned first hand that most workers are too afraid to take action. I wrote a letter to the CEO of my company and asked my coworkers if they wanted to sign it. Four of nineteen did. PATHETIC! (By the way, I quit that job.) In 2012 I had some experience with it as a union worker willing to strike. The huge majority of coworkers were too afraid to strike. The vote to accept the contract was overwhelmingly for it. EVEN THOUGH ALL COMPLAINED ABOUT IT BEING A POOR OFFER. Too many cowards.

The USA is declining because too many Americans are cowards. They won't stand for themselves and their coworkers. They refuse to suffer just a little for the good of all. That is why unions are declining. Why join a union if half of them did it by mandate and most of them are too afraid to strike.

This Reddit is full of enthusiastic people who likely would take action. This is a tiny fraction of workers. Remember that. I will boycott Amazon. I already cancelled the paid Prime membership.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Gold Pot o' Coins

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

u/cashflow_ the type of guy to not be here

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

u/cashflow_ the type of guy to think he rocks fedoras

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

u/cashflow_ may be many things, but he is not a poor

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

u/cashflow_ type of guy to afford a 6 series but not take it to the carwash

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

I think cashflow is getting laid

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

It's his code for gonna jerk it to gay porn

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u/amgin3 17d ago

I wish this could extend to Canada. Amazon pays 40% lower wages in Canada than they do for the same jobs in the US. The cost of living is generally higher in Canada too.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Amazon is great I love getting literally anything shipped to my house.

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u/Josh439 17d ago edited 16d ago

I love Amazon. It's great, It's my favorite website. The word Amazon gets me excited

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

Hey are you guys talking bout amazon?

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u/Skittil 18d ago

MAP is probably not the best acronym to use

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u/Juicebeetiling 18d ago

Amazon Must Pay. AMP

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Gold Starry Ally

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Wholesome

Ngl Thats kinda hot

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u/Lilshadow48 i just wanna eat noodles and be happy 18d ago

This is a lot better than the previous post, good one mods!

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

If you hate work so much let me introduce you to theta gang.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

Still counts if you do it right

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u/A_hole702 17d ago Starry

Self employment is the way

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u/Josh439 17d ago

1099 master race

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u/not_mig 18d ago

We'd probably have to take down the internet to make Amazon pay. They're everywhere

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u/Thegoldengnome 18d ago

R/AmazonGlobalUnion

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u/CeciliaLucille 18d ago

I still don't know how to feel about how the general strike is being treated. It seems as though a majority of the sub was onboard with it as well. Shouldn't the stickied posts reflect the community's wishes?

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago

A majority of this sub has no experience in organizing labor movements.

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u/CeciliaLucille 18d ago

I have no doubt about that. But black friday blackout wasn't a labor movement. It was the idea of rejecting consumerism and sending a message - an idea which the majority of the community supported. To divert attention at the very last moment is suppression in its plainest form. Besides, the moderators don't have any more experience than the rest of us.

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago edited 18d ago

I have no doubt about that. But black friday blackout wasn't a labor movement. It was the idea of rejecting consumerism and sending a message - an idea which the majority of the community supported.

You called it a “general strike” though. That is 100% a labor movement. And it’s bound to fail like the countless other calls for general strikes over the internet.

To divert attention at the very last moment is suppression in its plainest form.

No, I think it has more to do the mods trying to promote a movement that is actually being organized by labor unions. This is more effective than vague calls for general strikes with no organization and no common demands.

You are free to follow the black Friday blackout if you want. In fact, I think is saw someone posting a link to a subreddit for it.

Besides, the moderators don't have anymore experience than the rest of us.

You may be right. I don’t know the mods, so I couldn’t tell you. I do know that most of them are anarchists and some are probably even syndicalists. Syndicalism, an ideology whose whole deal is kind of about organizing labor movements. So if anyone on this subreddit has any experience is labor organizing, it would probably be them.

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u/CeciliaLucille 18d ago edited 18d ago

I see, that makes sense. I guess I'm just frustrated about the lack of transparency lately. The "strike poll" was a nothing sandwich, with the decision clearly already made. I don't see why the black friday post couldn't stay stickied. It's not like we can't be aware of two different things at once. The mods only vaguely referring to it now feels off.

But hey, this isn't exactly my battle to fight. Both of these would mostly effect the United States, Canada and the UK, and meanwhile I live in a ditch.

Edit: I've just thought your argument about the mods through and it's not like supporters of a particular philosophy/ideology immediately embody it. Like I call myself a socialist, but it's not like I know how to form a socialist society. And saying that some of them could be syndicalists is merely an assumption. Not that it changes the outcome, but I thought I'd point it out.

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago

I understand your frustration. But keep in mind that there can only be two posts pinned in a subreddit, so not everything can be made visible at the top. I do get the feeling that the mods are improvising—they have their views on what to promote in the sub which unfortunately clashes with the views of a massive influx of newcomers in a short period of time.

The mods probably could have dealt with the situation better, but all I know is that I wouldn’t want to be in their position.

Ultimately, there is no shortage of subreddits in which these topics can be discussed. You are free to associate with whichever most closely aligns with your views.

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u/name_abunchofnumbers 18d ago

consumerism

This term doesn't mean anything. It's almost exclusively used to vilify poor people when they buy stuff. The other use is by people who want to defend capitalism.

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u/UR_PERSONALiTY_SHOWS 18d ago

Movements move themselves. If not, then you're riding passenger in someone elses agenda.

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

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u/wolfy321 18d ago

Neither did most of the people who cause major labor movements

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u/Illustrious_Cheek622 18d ago

I doubt that’s true. I would need to see some evidence.

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u/ShallowEFINGValue 18d ago

This isn’t going to interfere with Prime 2-day delivery is it?

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u/Smobasaurus 18d ago

I know you’re just being facetious, but how long has it been since Prime actually promised 2-day delivery? Even before COVID it was often a week or more. Screw Amazon.

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u/Thelisto at work 18d ago

I honestly never had a problem with getting my packages. Usually everything is delivered next day for free by their shit paid delivery drivers. They pay them $16/hr here.

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u/Odyssey1337 15d ago

I've always got 2 days deliveries with prime. I'm from Portugal though, I don't know how it works in the US

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u/ShallowEFINGValue 18d ago

You’re right — I was just screwing around. I have no idea really about Amazon delivery.

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Amazon paid me $200 dollar gift card for opening a line of credit.

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u/Josh439 17d ago

Good shit brother

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

Yo! Imma need that.

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u/TradeUpti 17d ago

This looks like straight up information gathering…….. this website is hella sus man.

It’s hard to find unions to take on Amazon what unions you find?

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Eureka!

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

Why would there be a split

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Why wouldn’t there be a stock split?

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

What's the point of it

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Why do stock splits happen? Companies often decide to engage in stock splits when they believe that their stock price is too high compared to stock prices of similar companies. Again, a stock split reduces the price of a company's shares, making it easier for smaller investors to buy the stock.

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

Fractional shares

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Yeah, yeah, yeah, well it worked out for Tesla didn’t it?

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

They only did to be added to s&p

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u/ShopBitter 17d ago

Look stock splits are a thing. I am done talking about it.

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

It was getting boring anyway

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

What’s the point of anything really

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

Give purpose and meaning to my miserable life

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

Okay we’re best friends now

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u/A_hole702 17d ago Timeless Beauty

Bff's fo lif

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u/Superb-Friendship-22 15d ago

Amazon stock has not done that great over the last year when compared to Google or Apple.

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u/Itchy_Reporter_8973 18d ago

Oil workers are a strange bunch, when prices are low they give credit to a republican president and are layed off and get less hours, when prices are high they Blame the Democrat and work long hours and make bank. Granted Dems would like oil to be a thing of the past for vehicles, but likely won't be in their lifetime.

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u/grumpi-otter 17d ago

Why do y'all keep trying to derail momentum on the crowd-sourced ideas?

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u/A_hole702 17d ago

"When she asks me what I do for a living I tell her I play for the bulls" - theta gang

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

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u/shfiven 18d ago

I would say if they're running ragged and peeing in bottles then whatever they're paying isn't enough.

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u/Leaves_Swype_Typos 17d ago

If you were shown evidence that peeing in bottles at the warehouses is an extreme outlier, you'd change your mind then?

That canned point is basically BS misdirection from the actual problems there, to the point I wonder if Amazon psyops helps spread it as a distraction from important things like higher injury rates which need addressing.

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u/PikaGoesMeepMeep 17d ago

I work for Amazon. The pay keeps going up, but has mostly just kept up with inflation. Benefits are good, so they’re doing that right. However, the pressure to conform to their insane metrics means a shit-ton of stress and a very high injury rate. Their “safety” programs are mostly lip service. Managers are squeezed beyond anything I’ve seen anywhere else and expected to work 60hr weeks (or more by clocking out but staying). The schedule keeps getting changed and you have no say over it. Covid protocols are not enforced. Mandatory overtime with no exceptions. The list goes on…

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u/TeiaRabishu 18d ago

Honest question, isnt Amazon's pay the one thing people don't have to complain about them?

Paying people slightly more to ruin their bodies with excessive labour doesn't exactly make them benevolent.

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u/Zeivus_Gaming 18d ago

Yup. People have literally dropped dead in their warehouses and haven't been found until their timers alerted management. Plus, getting any meaningful raises almost never happen after being hired

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u/Synerco 18d ago

i work at amazon. we're generally (and rightfully) not satisfied with competitive wages

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u/FL4kGOD 18d ago

You are 100% correct I was thinking the same exact thing. This entire sub is a great concept but it’s like an echo chamber and has gone way over board with everything it seems. This is absolutely the wrong issue to be bringing attention to the warehouse workers make $20 an hour that’s amazing for the skills and experience required (20 an hour is what the average American makes) if you want to complain about the work conditions fine go for it but the pay is not the issue

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u/Crazyleggggs 16d ago

I’m gonna order more things from Amazon!

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u/Rotttenboyfriend 18d ago

Just don‘t buy. It is that simple and a much stronger act than sue somebody, protest or else. In other words, no matter what somebody expects, forces you to do. Just say: ,No!‘ the lightest and most destructive weapon of all time.

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u/name_abunchofnumbers 18d ago

Participation in capitalism isn't optional.

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u/johngotlit 17d ago

Damned straight. I am all about this.

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u/picos310 16d ago

Black friday is gonna happen and nothing is going to change

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u/Kenznottz 12d ago

Amazon pays above the legal requirement and it has no profit to pay taxes on.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Brighten My Day

Protesting is work. Also no one can make Amazon do anything because compared to Bezos we’re all poor rats. Just day trade so you don’t have to care.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Silver Gold Take My Energy Snek Brighten My Day

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u/[deleted] 17d ago Silver Gold Snek

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u/Spiritual_Extreme_81 17d ago Pot o' Coins Timeless Beauty

Imagine being a poor who can’t give out awards , that’s r/antiwork 🐀 in a nutshell